Gnome 0.99.7 released

Science writes " GNOME "Skillful and Conspicuous Cow" 0.99.7 has been released. No more apes. Cows rule. "

Comments

gmc *still* can't hold a candle to kfm...

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh well, Window Maker + kpanel + kfm = rocking!!

how long

[Anonymous Coward]

any guess as to how long until the big 1 version?

Duke of URL

re:how long

[szo]

If my memory serves well, GIMP had 31 0.99.*'s.
In other words: I hope it wont be 1.0 until it is stable for good!

Szo

gtk--

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool, I wish i could get gtk-- to compile.
I'd like to write something but have no desire to
write it in C

how long .. redhat 6.0

[Anonymous Coward]

Well its almost time, the main developers (a couple anyways) are from the redhat labs, and there being pushed by a big deadline .. RedHat 6.0. egcs is stable, glibc 2.1 is now also fully released, so is kernel 2.2.x, so all the milestones for redhat 6.0 have been reached (according to a interview with the director, those are the milestones he felt he needed to reach before the big 6-ohh)

So the last 2 things missing of that list are Enlightenment (will most likely be the redhat gnome-compliant default windowmanager), And ofcource gnome one - point - ohhh

So my gues would be, in 2 or 3 months MAX, any more and redhat wouldnt be happy :)

GNOME *STILL* Beta, shame on them!

[Anonymous Coward]

Never mind. While you wait, and wait, and wait for the next GNOME release, you can use KDE.

KDE is here.
KDE works.
KDE is a real product.
KDE acknowledged by Professionals as Best Desktop

Use KDE, you know that, like this one, the next GNOME release is just another futile bug chasing exercise.

Dammit

[Anonymous Coward]

I just finished downloading Gnome 0.99.5 yesterday, I haven't even compiled it yet, and now there's 0.99.7. Damn you progress!

Gnome release schedule

[Anonymous Coward]

Day d(n): Gnome .99.n sources out!!!
Day d(n)+1: Gnome .99.n Linux ELF binaries out!!
Day d(n)+4: Gnome .99.n x86-glibc2 RPMs out!!!!

d(n) will be picked to maximize media saturation,
n = {1..103}

The copulating bonobo release (.99.103) will be the last
before Gnome 1.0

Gnome rules! (let audience repeat 8x)

in rpl to your insightful comment

[Anonymous Coward]

bugger off!

/Larry

GNOME *STILL* Beta, shame on them!

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you for clearing that up. All this time I had been sitting in my room, clicking the "Reload" button on my browser, waiting for them to announce a new release of Gnome. I can rest assured that since you, Anonymous (if that is your real name), use KDE, I have been wasting my life trying to support another product. For as we all know, everyone is exactly the same.

Proper HOWTO.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd just like to say AMEN! For those that's haven't seen the HOW-TO check it out here. I especially like that the instructions are designed with RedHat 5.2 and 5.0 in mind only. Oh yeah let me save you the time of counting the required packages... 39 and if you want the optional stuff 54, ooofa seems like a whole lotta work to me. Hmmmm, maybe this is the plan package RedHat 6 with GNOME fully functional out of the box then make it so hard to get it to work on anything else that people will go out and buy the latest RedHat distribution... yet another conspiracy ;)

GNOME *STILL* Beta, shame on them!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm...

Both KDE and Gnome are doing good things. I have used both, and there are some parts in each that I really like. I like KDE's filemanager better, but Gnome has better configuration tools.

It's kinda weird - the FSF supports the only desktop project that allows commercial apps to be made without having to lay down money - how is that for irony!

Actually....

[Anonymous Coward]

...there's no need to even use KDE.

NT is here.
NT works.
NT is a real product.
NT is acknowledged by Professionals Best Desktop.

Thank you

[Anonymous Coward]

My thoughts exactly. This is why I ultimately gave up on Gnome and switched to KDE; I couldn't bear the thought of writing all that GUI code without a nice OO C++ framework to support me.

They lie...

[Anonymous Coward]

GNOME 0.99.7 RPMS Available
RPMS for Red Hat Linux 5.2 for Intel/Alpha/Sparc are now available at:
ftp://ftp.gnome.org/pub/GNOME/redhat/latest.


Lies, lies, lies!

gnome.org always annouces RPM availability, and then it's nowhere to be found. I went looking for 0.99.5 and I still can't scare up the necessary RPMs for it. (The mirrors all seem to think the world ended with .99.3!)

I expect that despite the so-called availability of RPMs, it'll be a week or so before I can actually get ahold of them.

Good god, won't they ever mirror this stuff before they announce it?

GNOME *STILL* Beta, shame on them!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, while I'd take GNOME for myself right now, I'd give my mother or sister KDE right now.

However, that doesn't mean you need to go and bash GNOME for not being done yet.

or one big rpm file containing everyting you need

[Anonymous Coward]

One big rpm package containing all libs and
stuff you need to get a working system, i dont mind if its 20-25 mb, if i just could run
"rpm -i gnome.rpm" and thats all! i will be happy
to download even 30 MB with my 56 modem :)

They lie...

[Anonymous Coward]

Only RPMS for 0.99.3 and 0.99.7.

It's not a big deal to port to Debian.

tarballs work for all distro

but mommy, i dont want to use propitary librarys?

[Anonymous Coward]

die stupid KDE troll! die! die!

I have a dumb GNOME question

[Anonymous Coward]

how do I set it up so that I get the GNOME panel instead of the horrid fwvm panel?

I tried putting 'panel &' in my .xinitrc but the net result was: no background, no window manager.

any clues? please, i am a linux newbie. just point me in the direction of some docs, that would be great.

They lie...

[Anonymous Coward]

Good god, won't they ever mirror this stuff before they announce it?

Well, they had to make some headlines, with KDE 1.1 out and all :)
It's been one full day since the announcement and all everyone can find is some 0.99.6 branded tar.gz and a 0.99.7 gnome-networks archive!
Is this an indication of the workings of GNOME (i.e. no aduqate organization)? Hmm, okay, the new bug tracking system looks nice though..

Grow up!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll use GNOME thank you very much!

Any relation to the Platypus of Doom?

[Anonymous Coward]

:)

how long .. redhat 6.0

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree on the E comments. Whats with this sliding windows onto the screen? Waste of CPU. And wtf do those icons mean? I know there are themes......

For me (at the moment) Afterstep and KDE apps.

Stodge (no idea of my password)

Any relation to the Platypus of Doom?

[Anonymous Coward]

heh :)

GNOME sucks 'cause i'm a morrrrronnn

[Anonymous Coward]

duh, i dont like gnom. gnom not good. kde good gnom bad. fire bad. me no like. me not use, me never use, me no use kde neither, me no like gnom.

duh.

duh.

duh.

i'm a morrrroonnnnnnnnnn. duh. moron good. me good moron. me have lot of time on hands. me flame. flame good! flame good when me flame. when not-me flame me, flame bad. bad, bad. very bad. me no like you flame me, me like me flame you. flame, flame! duuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

They lie...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, they may be fibbing a little...

I've had pretty good luck creating rpms from the tar balls. Just use:

rpm -ta tarfile_name

RPM extracts the .spec file (which is included in all the gnome tar files) and uses it to build binary and source rpms. Occasionally I've had to update the version and release info in the .spec to get rpm to work, but in all cases the amount of hand work took less than a minute per file.

Example session for the newbies follows:

1) tar xfvz gnome-libs-0.99.7.tar.gz

2) vi gnome-libs-0.99.7/gnome-libs.spec
a) change version to 0.99.7 (match tarfile version)
b) change release to 1 (or whatever you want)

3) tar cfvz gnome-libs-0.99.7.tar.gz gnome-libs-0.99.7

4) rpm -ta gnome-libs-0.99.7.tar.gz

5) rpm -Uvh /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/gnome-libs-0.99.7.i386.r pm

or something like that.

That should help those rpm-ers out there, but it still doesn't fix the mirror latency :(

Ignore this troll.. dont even read the replies

[Anonymous Coward]

aw.. you read the replies.. Dont feed the trolls, and they'll be forced to feed elsewhere.

Yo Rob!

[Anonymous Coward]

I've found a handy link with some helpful hints for maintaining order on slashdot. Remember: You're not really dead if you're killed with a rubber bullet.

Hope this helps.

GNOME *STILL* Beta, shame on them!

[Anonymous Coward]

Is anyone else getting 5Mb mem usage from each KDE app you run (using with Afterstep)?

I'd Rather Live Lightly

[Anonymous Coward]

Gnome and KDE both take too much in the way of resources; and even fvwm-type window managers are beginning to be dragged down by feature-itis.

There's nothing like clean, light design. I just switched over to XFCE, which is simply a control panel that comes with its own light-weight window manager. And guess what? Its small and quick and light on its feet; it looks nice; it's easy to configure; and it does what I need with no fuss or bother.

Better X-applications, yes. Another bloated desktop, no thank you.

Still confused..

[Anonymous Coward]

And those daily beta releases adversely affected you.... how?

Poor guys...

[Anonymous Coward]

I was actually pretty pissed of on the comments
on the KDE 1.1 announcement (I am a second-hand contributor there). Now I am much relieved: the poor guys from the Gnome camp got it too. They should be terribly motivated reading all this.

Shouldn't this discussion be used on discussing things like:

-Ok, what's new...
-I really liked that...
-I would like this and that

Etc. Feature request is a serious motivation behind freeware developers. Bashing may force them to say, "what the hell" and go programming dialog boxes for Microsoft for valuable stock options.

BTW: I consider KDE better, and I have serious doubts about some of the basic design decisions behind Gnome (plain C, guile/scheme etc).
But this doesn't mean that they are not doing a very serious job. Actually the fact that KDE is where it is now is more of a miracle - just think that a number of big companies having XWin based machines like SUN, SGI and IBM could not come up with a good user interface - just think about the amazing moment when the CDE panel brings up the xman man page viewer with the tiny round buttons and the amazing Xt textbox.

So I think that the only acceptable criticism towards Gnome is joining the KDE effort (or starting a new desktop env. project :-)

Lotzi B.

Wake up asshole

[Anonymous Coward]

Before spouting off like a complete dickhead, how about actually trying the software.
The current RPM's of gnome ship with E configured very simmlarly to FVWM. The main differences: It's faster, It looks a bit more polished, and it's more configureable.

If E was still like E13, then I might agree with you. It's a lot differnt now, sure there are people doing flashey desktops with it, but that's because it's powerful and not because that's all it's good for. The default E config is very sensible.

BTW- gnome does have a consistent set of icons, check them out at tigert.gimp.org.

Just because people show off the eyecandy shots, that doesn't mean thats what it is at default or what the designer intended it to be.
What you are doing there is akin to going to a drag race, and coming back saying "All american car's suck! Who needs 500Hp and nitro? They guzzle gas, and are uncomfortable looking". If you go looking for screenshots, you are looking for a show-off (and sometimes show-offs have bad taste :) ).
You might want to check out some of the newer screen shots of Gnome on their site.

KDE = Windows 3.1

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a Gnome fan. I admit KDE currently rules as superior desktop environment for Linux. Where do you think we'll be in 2 years? I'm sorry, but Gnome's GTK+, Corba, and scripting support will simply blow KDE out of the water. Sorry.

Where do you think KDE will be in 2 years? KDE will be using CORBA (they are already with the Koffice suite and are planning to go completely CORBA by 2.0 I think) and will also support scripting through CORBA.

Get a clue

[Anonymous Coward]

Redhat is quite supportive of debian. Dont post such assumptions. It's not nice.

Oh well, no .deb's

[Anonymous Coward]

Another option for debian users to use the alien package. For 0.99.2 or 3 I grabbed all of the rpms and supporting libraries that I didn't have from potatoe and ran alien on each one, "debianizing" them and then using dpkg to install. I successfully installed all packages.

of course, ymmv

Then don't run the default

[Anonymous Coward]

So what's the tremendous default WM that makes you run RH today? I din't know it was windowmaker.

Slackware

[Anonymous Coward]

RPM's, DEB's - BAHHH!
How can they help me, a Slackware User!!!!
And I am NOT SWITCHING!!!!
(Don't get me started on THAT issue!)

Not yet.

[Anonymous Coward]

"As usual, there are not RPMs or Deb of Conspicuous Cow, so you need
to get the sources of the Cow and compile them." - Gnome press release.

The RPM's come out later.

Learn to read you asshole!

[Anonymous Coward]

From the Gnome Press release: "As usual, there are not RPMs or Deb of Conspicuous Cow, so you need
to get the sources of the Cow and compile them.".

There arn't any yet! Perhaps if you could read you'd be less dissatisified.

Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

Give me one good reason whats wrong with GMC?? are you just saying that out of spite? or have you actualy TRIED it?

They lie...

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe you didn't look hard enough. I'd downloaded all of the rpms within a few hours of the announcement.

Any "gnomeified" Xemacs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Has there been any talk about getting a gnome/gtk version of Xemacs?

GNOME AND KDE

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, I heard it was possible to use KDE and GNOME together,and that they actually complement each other. I was just wondering how one accomplishes this. And if anyone is actually using these together, could they throw up some screen shots?
Thanks.

Intelligent, unemotional discussion of KDE v Gnome

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to agree. Wading through these flames wars leaves me rather lethargic. There are a lot of people just having fun trying to upset others (trolls) and succeeding I might add.

I just want to see these projects coming together at some point. Gnumeric is a great app. And Koffice is looking very promising. I just hope I have the ability to pick and choose integrate them together.

If not I'll just keep parsing data with Perl and crunching numbers with FORTRAN.

-Pete

Kwydgibos of the World Unite

[Anonymous Coward]

You can verify your nerdiness by defining kwydgibo in its original context.

Show your stuff nerds!

'Cos REDHAT OWNS GNOME

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a freaking luser.

RH and Debian don't even really compete... they actually complement each other darn well, catering to different crowds.

Also they seem to work on the same/ similar projects. AFAIK, there are plenty of debian ppl working on Gnome.

who cares...

[Anonymous Coward]

People don't come to slashdot for
rational discussion. Not anymore
at least.

And the idea that "gnome is starting
with architecture, rather than GUI"
is a myth. Gnome will be no more
advanced in terms of document models
and CORBA infrastructure at v1.0 than
KDE was. If you are looking for object
embedding, and cross-language APIs
beyond GTK bindings, you will not find
them soon. I'm not saying it won't
happen ever, though. Might turn out better
than KDE, because they are working longer
on it, possibly with less urgency (?). Plus
the orb is leaner, which should make for
a more useable system.

I have doubts about your very first sentence.

[Anonymous Coward]

We need to stand together as a community, not degenerate into infighting

Why? Why do we, have to stand together? I hear this a lot from the 'reactionary' users who want gnome and kde people to be brothers. I've thought about it and see no reason, no logical basis, for the catchy phrase "we should stand together." I'm sorry, but I don't. You must have a different vision of the future than I do.

No stupid standpoints for the sake of a united standpoint. Plain retarded, mob mentality.

Are you crazy?

[Anonymous Coward]

why would anyone want to ruin a good product?

Slackware

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I haven't gotten the whole thing to compile! Never have! I see all these rpm's and wonder what us (*sob*) Slackware users are to do!!! I lately haven't gotten the GTK to complile so I just stop there. But I have never gotten gnome to run just ONCE!!!! I see the snapshot screens and hear the gossip on news groups and it sounds SOOO promising!!!!!! I would LOVE to try it!!!!! JUST ONCE!!!!!!!!!

I like KDE and use KDE everyday but it reminds me TOO MUCH of windoze and very little of the object oriented OS/2 I abandoned not too long ago (IMHO the BEST desktop EVER!!! X.desktop - 2nd place!) I WANT to see what gnome has to offer. This weekend I am going to upgrade my Slackware 3.5 (libc5) to Slackware 3.6 with glibc2 updates I read about from "slackware.org" and start from scratch JUST TO TRY GNOME!!!!!!!!!! I can get KDE for SCO Unix now (for our servers)
http://ftp.sco.com/skunkwar e/osr5/vols/kde-1.0-VOLS.tar Why can't I get this for Slackware LINUX?!?!?! I use Slackware in our company for our internet router with the GREAT Sangoma WAN-Pipe card, and our web server on Stronghold for Linux (migrated from SCO Unix)... I Love Linux!!!!
Sangoma!!!

Why I have to jump thru hoops to try to even attemt to get gnome to work - I dunno! But I am determined - I am a geek with power in my company! Geez - we still run OS/2 Warp 4 for customer service workstations only because of me 3 years ago! Me - Linux, however!
Enuf said! I want LINUX!!!!!

Johnny O
johnod@voicefx.com

KDE = Windows 3.1

[Anonymous Coward]

MICO sucks in terms of performance. Use TAO.

GNOME AND KDE

[Anonymous Coward]

Why different CORBA implementation should stay in the way of interoperability as long as they ARE standard CORBA (is not all CORBA about interoperability???)? May be you mean different interfaces for the same tasks? Can some kind of interoperability layer be designed that effectively maps concepts of KDE to GNOME and vice versa? BTW, MICO sucks seriously, I can tell as former MICO user. It eats too much memory and provide too slow marshalling to be usable in any cases beyond academic ones. Use TAO. (Have not tried ORBit, it does not exist as a separate muliplatform product).

Check out Gentoo

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should try out Gentoo. It's a file manager written with Gtk and quite powerful. Even though it still is beta it has never crashed on me.

Gentoo is far from as powerful as mc but still very clean, easy to use and enjoyable. This is the first time that I actually have started using an X based filemanager on regular basis.

Available on a ftp-server near you...


gmc on the other hand has really dissapointed me so far. I thought that we would finally get a "Windows Commander" for X, but this is more like an unstable MS Explorer wannabe.

Oh well, no .deb's

[Crow-]

uhh, point apt towards potato and type

apt-get install gnome-panel gnome-session gnome-control-center

They lie...

[Crow-]

To hell with the rpms, install the debs

RPMS?

[Bill Currie]

It takes some stuffing around, but the source tar balls have the *.spec files in them needed for building the rpms, so you could do it yourself (I do).

how long .. redhat 6.0

[gavinhall]

Posted by OGL:

IMO you're right about E (although I wouldn't use such harsh language), but wrong about Red Hat. I certainly don't use their default window manager...in fact I chose not to install ANY window managers in my latest 5.2 box. I use and will continue to use icewm regardless of what they put in their 6.0 distro.

-W.W.

this thread is hosed

[TedC]

Can anyone read this? I've tried 5 or 6 links, and all they do is reload the top-level page...

KDE = Windows 3.1

[John Allsup]

mico is slow and bloated. It would be an idea for the KDe folks to carefully consider which ORB they use. It would be an idea to go for one written purely in C++, since this is their preferred language (it saves a lot of headaches to avoid going cross-language unless necessary, so the C++ to C-Library and other basic libraries should be the only case where this is done

(GNOME used to use it, but dumped it for this reason, and started ORBit).

p.s. anybody know what omniORB 2 is like? I hear that its fast and stable.

Intelligent, unemotional discussion of KDE v Gnome

[John Allsup]

Although I fervently believe in choice when it comes to apps like wordprocessors, spreadsheets. etc. I strongly believe that the less technical end user should only have to "learn Linux" once. To the new non-technical user, the interace *is* the OS. I believe that for the good of Linux, only one interface should be dominant.

A different opinion.
Linux should NOT have any graphical user interface by default. KDE and GNOME should do to Linux what NextStep/OpenStep did to Mach -- provide a consistent OS with a GUI that is based on Linux. What should be dropped is the 'it's all Linux' thing -- though that could be difficult. The 'it's all GNU' a la RMS should also be avoided.

Gnome seems to go for flashy and neat stuff.

That in itself is not the problem. The problem is that it goes for the flashy stuff at the expense of the simple stuff -- its in its feature bloat stage -- where new stuff is added at the expense of stability. However, I recall that KDE 1.0 wasn't exactly brilliant either, so we should give the GNOME guys the benifit of the doubt for now, and remember that having two heavily worked out avenues of exploration is better than one, since KDE and GNOME can and should copy ideas and try varaiatons on them (there's features of the GNOME panel that I like, and similarly for the KDE one)

KDE seems more professional.

Than what? GNOME is currently totally unprofessional, and nothing times anything is still nothing... arguably Windows 3.0 is more professional (still) than GNOME (though I do use both)

I have never been able to deal well with Enlightenment. It seems to give up functionality and ease of use in favor of a sort of bizzare flash. KWM seems (to me) very no nonsense, direct, intuitive, and functional.

Its still really in the early development brainstorm stage -- its just useable, and useful for people to play around with.

KDE's memory requirement is embarrasing. Nobody involved with KDE ever seems to even care about that. I *cannot* set up a low memory 486 system built out of "junk parts" for friends using KDE which is sad because those are the very friends that could benefit most from KDE! Memory usgage may be KDE's greatest weakness.

Expect this to get worse before it gets better. KDE needs to stress and use reusable components (far more then it already does anyhow). This should be done to the point that most applications can be easily scripted out of KDE.
Memory efficiency comes from minimalism and reuse. So expect GNOME to have similar problems if it is not already

Using X11 in low memory is painful ( I know as an ex 8mb user). KDE and Gnome will suck on such systems, as will any large GUI program (netscape 4, StarOffice, WordPerfect, xdoom, xquake) KDE 1.1 is lighter in memory use.

Hopefully, a port to something like GGI could be done -- abandoning X for network graphics and using CORBA and reusable objects would be an interesting long term goal, and the Berlin project could be looked to for ideas to this if nothing else (else... read implementation)

Gnome has lower memory requirements by a long shot. As I understand it, ORBit is much more efficient than MICO and that MICO was originally written as an educational tool and nothing more. (Don't assume I know what I'm talking about here, about MICO. I just *heard* this. I don't know that for sure.)

The GNOME and KDE teams are NOT developing ORBS. Therefore it would be a good idea for them to settle on the same ORB and make their systems more interoperable. They should look at a larger number of ORBs, standardise on one, and possibly cannibalise others for the remaining parts if necessary (as a stop gap). Some examples of ORBs are

• mico -- KDE uses it.
• ORBit -- GNOME uses it.
• omniORB2 -- apparently its fast, and anyhow, its GPL, so code can be shared between these.
• TAO -- The ACE ORB (can't remember where to find it, so someone please add a link...

KDE 1.1 and 1.0 don't use corba, so Mico is not included. When it does, it will use Mico, for reasons of its maturity.

Should they tie themselves to one ORB. I don't have much experience of ORBs, so could someone explain the problems entailed with changing the ORB.

The memory comaparisons should be backed up by the output of ps or relevant utilities, compiling both with same compiler, optimisations etc.

Agreed. Though is should be given a more thorough analysis then just ps'ing it (for release candidate stuff).

I get the impression that the Gnome team has started at a lower level, building a foundation of ORBit, etc. which will pay off in the long run, whereas KDE picked available tools a jumped right into coding the GUI. This is not a criticism of KDE. If KDE were not here, we would not have anything finished and ready right now or over the last year or two and Linux/Unix would not be in as good a shape. (The two projects may be complememtary in that way.) I'm interested in (*constructive*) comments about the quality of the relative foundations.

Bear in mind that KDE can make use of GNOME components, so they should consider doing the higher level stuff. KDE and GNOME working together more is always a good thing...

Redhat always pushed the easyness of their distro. Not including KDE was a backwards step if that was their goal, and I'm now an ex Redhat...

I dumped RedHat for Stampede. The speed difference is huge, though debugging is more difficult. ld.so really needs to be modified to allow for the easy loading of a program with debugging libraries, without, or with a mix (i.e make a ldload command which allows you to specify how dynamic linking will be done) That said, Stampede installation is currently far from easy, and I haven't yet managed a proper install that I didn't have to clean up after. That said, its worth it for the speed increase compared to Slackware and relative cleanliness compared to RedHat.
Is it me, or is RedHat really turning into the Microsoft/Windows of Linux?

Not a rebuttal, but points about both gmc and kfm

[John Allsup]

This is not a rebuttal, but an expansion on what
has been said.

Limited configurability (why the fuck can't I
get rid of the huge useless toolbar?)
Grid limited icon placement, this is *ALSO*
a limitation of kfm btw!

And FAR TOO MUCH CODE.

Ugly drag & drop properties, the drag representation could be made better (alpha channel? a la windoze?). How can I turn off the
stupid Motif drop-fail-so-fly-back-to-drag-point crap?

They've got worse problems than that. I think that KDE might have solved this, but have any of you started a drag, and then switched window? Have any of you tried to cancel a drag? Have any of you had DnD'ing just crash the whole thing?

Crash prone, yeah, still beta..
Limited integration with the rest of GNOME (it
would be nice if apps could use gmc for their
file dialogs, with all the options. No need to reimplemnt stuff. This is the GNU Network
Object Model Enviroment right???)

This is one of the BEST examples of the problems
of code bloat -- how large is GMC???

p.s dont shout about its wondeful features...

• VFS -- ftp, tar, ... these should NOT be
  handled by GMC (they should be in a system
  library or a GNOME support library. (n.b. they
  ARE going this way) -- KDE still needs this to
  be done for KDE, however I would expect them to
  learn from the mistakes made with GMC.
  
• Apps use GMC for file dialogs??? You're kidding right? Last time I checked, gnumeric (compiled under PGCC 1.1.1 on stampede with
  all optimisations enabled) was noticeably slower
  than M$ Excel 97 running under Wine from the
  files on my Windows box (mounted over NFS under
  linux from the VFAT drive...).
  
  In short, gtk and gnome are SLOW. Using GMC instead of the GTK file boxes would make it interminably slow.
  
• Still beta -- pre-1.0, like KDE should be considered alpha. 1.0 should be considered beta (KDE 1.1 is really the first proper release of KDE regardless of what may be said -- KDE 1.0 was as much a joke as GNOME 1.0 will probably turn out to be for release wuality software.
  

Not multi-threaded. Why not create a separate thread for the desktop?

For a more stupid problem with both KFM and GMC. Why require that there be a desktop where things can be dragged at all. I'd personally prefer a shelf, and dragging an object to a desktop opens the object in that desktop.
So far as separate thread for desktop... How about a separate thread for each region (i.e. one for the whole window, one for the toolbars, one for the tree on the left, one for the file view window, a thread for each job given to GMC, i.e. copy or move, a thread for opening a ZIP file in the VFS.

Yes there are debs!

[Phil-14]

What do you mean? The gnome libraries and packages are in potato. I'm using gnome on a debian system *right now*. Check your facts.

cows

[the COW OF DOOM (tm)]

YES COWS DO RULE!@#%!@%$#
it's good that those gnome people realize the power of the bovine side.. perhaps we shall kill them last them when the revolution comes. or allow them to live as slaves.

-the COW OF DOOM (tm)

Slackware + GNOME

[boc]

Try running configure with the --disable-nls flag (on every GNOME package). I don't know if it says that anywhere, but that's how I finally got GNOME compiled on my Slackware system back at GNOME 0.13 or 0.20.

Any "gnomeified" Xemacs?

[boc]

Someone aske d about this on the GNOME mailing lists a while ago.

Hey!

[jd]

Give me a chance! I've only just finished d/l glibc 2.1, KDE and NetBSD! ARGH! :) :) :)

(Seriously, this is great! Even if I can't keep up. :)

Actual mirror

[Fnord]

Does anyone know a mirror that actually has the new rpms? ftp.gnome.org hasn't been responding for hours and none of the mirrors actually have it or just have the tarballs (I compiled 0.99.3, I don't have time to do that again....)

grrrr already /.'ed

[Da w00t]

(message from neutscrape) "Netscape's network connection was refused by the sevrer:
ftp.gnome.org
The server may not be accepting connections or
may be busy

Try connecting again later.&<FORM &><INPUT TYPE=SUBMIT VALUE="OK" &></FORM &>

(lame attempt to create an OK button. :)

GNOME *STILL* Beta, shame on them!

[Rational]

You forgot:

KDE is uglier than all fuck.

Give me style over substance any day of the week... :)

GNOME *STILL* Beta, shame on them!

[Millennium]

Nice set of FUD. Just kidding, it's actually rather pathetic:

KDE is here.

So is Gnome.

KDE works.

So does Gnome.

KDE is a real product.

You must have a rather twisted definition of "real product" because last time I checked Gnome was too; you seem to imply that it isn't.

KDE acknowledged by Professionals as Best Desktop

Which ones? I've never heard anyone say anything like that about KDE or Gnome.

Use KDE, you know that, like this one, the next GNOME release is just another futile bug chasing exercise.

And did your psychic friend tell you that? Yeah, perhaps Gnome is going through more quality-testing than KDE. Tell me again how that's bad? I ask you to remember: Gimp went through something on the order of thirty-one 0.99.x releases before it finally went 1.0, and no one complained. GTK went through ten 0.99.x releases before it went 1.0, and no one complained. The Linux kernel itself went through one hundred and forty-one 2.1.x releases (132 plus the nine pre-patches) before finally going 2.2, and no one complained. In fact, I'll bet you even used preleases of Gimp and GTK and Linux 2.1.x kernels, and I'll bet you didn't complain then either. So what's the big deal with Gnome?

Proper HOWTO.

[Forge]

I have read the HOWTO and it still scares me how
much neads to be done to put a working Gnome on a
working RedHat 5.1 instalation.

Long list of Libs ( yeah you can say it's just
this or that but you still have to download and
install over a dozen files.

Then you get to Gnome itself and you wonder which
pices you really nead.

How about wraping them up into sensible bundles
as folows.

1 : GTK -: gtk+, gtk--, gtk-whatever

2 : GNOMESUPPORT -: imlib, Orbit etc...

3 : GNOMELIB -: All the base librarys for Gnome

4 : GNOMEBASE -: A basic set of apps like the
panel the XTerm, file manager Text editor
and a Gnome compliant WindowManager or two.

5 : Everything else.

GNOME *STILL* Beta, shame on them!

[syntax]

I'm not sure, but don't most people learn around when they are nine its impolite and not to mention totally immature to discredit and mock other people's ideas and work? Yes, KDE is nice. Yes, GNOME is nice. I personally don't see why anyone needs *either* of them right now, because honestly, if you are in need of desktop environments (outside of a nice standard window manager, write your own, its not hard..) Linux probably isn't the operating system for you! I personally see it as helpful incase someone comes over and needs to use your computer, and would get freaked out by you using a console... But if you are dependant on it enough to troll for flames, consider switching to a more "complete", "real", and "best desktop" operating system like MacOS or Windows.

KDE = Windows 3.1

[planet_hoth]

Linux was beta once, too! Maybe at the time, when considering Linux, you also believed...

MSWin 3.1 is here.
MSWin 3.1 works.
MSWin 3.1 is a real product.
MSWin 3.1 acknowledged by Professionals as Best Desktop.

???

I am a Gnome fan. I admit KDE currently rules as superior desktop environment for Linux. Where do you think we'll be in 2 years? I'm sorry, but Gnome's GTK+, Corba, and scripting support will simply blow KDE out of the water. Sorry.

gtk--

[Kenelson]

Mail your problem to the gtk mailling list if you are having problems. See our web page for details on those lists. (Under reporting bugs.) We have at least 4 guys that would be happy to respond. Currently known problems are that gtk+ changed some methods recently and gtk-- will only compile with the latest release of gtk+.

You can mail me personally, but no guarantees that I know the solution.

For those interested, we have a gtk-- feature freeze and will be releasing gtk-- 1.0pre1 any day now. This version will correspond to the gtk+ 1.2 release.

--Karl
Gtk-- Contributor.

Tired of the KDE/GNOME flamewar.

[Scola]

Let me start out by saying that I'm currently a bigger fan of KDE than GNOME. I prefer a design based upon using C++ in GUI progamming over a traditional C one. I prefer Qt over Gtk simply based upon the design and layout of the libraries. KDE beat GNOME to stability and now to maturity. I just thik it is a better project.

That said, I wish the flaming would stop. GNOME and KDE started out from two different points to achieve the same goal. KDE looked at Qt, which already provided a sound foundation for a GUI API, and built upon it. They have generally succeeded in delivering a nice environment in terms of looks, an environment based upon shared libraries that do a great deal of thigns, and allow for efficiency and code reuse, and a generally lovely API that makes one understand the Zen which the OO paradigm can be when well done. GNOMR looked at using CORBA as an object model that integrated well with the goal of providing a desktop environment for X. Another good idea there. They've generally suceeded there. Although I disagree with the design choice of GTK as the widget set, it is not a horrible choice. Soon GNOME will have delivered upon their promise.

The flaming is dumb. The developers of KDE and GNOME, from what I've seen written by each of them, have nothing but the utmost for each other. In fact, in the case of KDE, after the release of 1.0, the developers looked at the CORBA base of GNOME and liked it a lot. KDE 2.0's major advance, KOM/OpenParts, KDE's version of this object model is an attempt to look at the strengths of GNOME and see how those strengths can be added to KDE. Once GNOME reaches stability, I'm sure the advances of KDE will be on their mind in choosing future directions.

In short, KDE and GNOME each have touched on something important. My opinion is that in the end KDE will win out, because of good design and having a head start, but this is to take nothing away from GNOME. Even if my prediction is correct, and KDE does win out, it, and indeed all of us will owe a great deal to the GNOME project. If the opposite happens, the obsitie debt of grititude will also be deserved.

In conclusion, I'd like to close on a paraphrase of something Eric S. Raymond said when he was participating in a panel on free software that I organized several months ago (I'll try to get the quote as close as possible): "I'm glad KDE and GNOME are competing with each other. Providing a good GUI for linux is something that's far too important for just one group to work on."

Well, Eric, I couldn't agree more.

Oh well, no .deb's

[edgy]

Looks like I'll just have to spring for the kde 1.1 deb packages. I've never been able to get the insane libraries that gnome wants, and i can't find any deb packages that work right.

Oh well, no .deb's

[dmaze]

Well, the unstable Debian distribution has packages for at least some of GNOME 0.99.3. Things like the panel run reasonably well on my system. Most of the GNOME game packages are still from 0.30, though... :-(

...only a little

[Booker]

THe ftp.circ.us.eu.org mirror has them. The RPM version numbers are slightly different from the tarballs, but several of them are 0.99.7 (and not all of the tarballs are at 0.99.7 yet)

Comments on recent GNOME releases

[bgarrett]

As someone who's been using gnome on and off since 0.nothing, I'd like to say the following.

I have yet to see the required, significant, very important Changelog entry that says:
made gmc STOP SUCKING.

The Gnome motto seems to be "Real Men use CVS".

Death to all Gnome-vs-KDE flamewars.

Thank you.

RPMS?

[Psarchasm]

Isn't this a semi-'Red Hat sponsored' production? And the RPM versions are how far behind? 3? 4 versions? On my desktop I don't mind compiling and installing the sources, but on my somewhat slower laptop that I'd rather use without compiling in the background, it sure would be nice to have some RPMS.

Intelligent, unemotional discussion of KDE v Gnome

[Steve Bergman]

Hi,

Everyone, please resist turning this thread into a flame war. We need to stand together as a community, not degenerate into infighting; "A house divided cannot stand" and all that sort of rot. ;-) For all the flames I have seen with respect to KDE and Gnome I have seen *remarkably* repeat, **remarkably**, little debate over the relative technical merits and *potentials* of both. I'm not a KDE or Gnome guru. but I'll start off with my own perceptions:

0. I should start off setting the context for my comments. I find KDE more usable at this point but for the long run I hope Gnome turns out to be the winner but I'm torn for a number of reasons. I am going to throw out points I consider important more or less randomly. Please, please, please respond in as constructive a way as possible. (Thanks. ;-) )

1. To me, KDE looks *much* more polished at this point.

2. Gnome has not been around as long and will no doubt get better.

3. Although I fervently believe in choice when it comes to apps like wordprocessors, spreadsheets. etc. I strongly believe that the less technical end user should only have to "learn Linux" once. To the new non-technical user, the interace *is* the OS. I believe that for the good of Linux, only one interface should be dominant.

4. That said, competition is good. On the other hand duplication of effort is not necessarily good.

5. KDE looks and feels much like Windows. As much as I despise WinXX, I have to admit that the UI itself is unparalleled. This is my strong *opinion*. I believe that we should not "throw out the baby with the bath water" by discounting anything "windows" out of hand. That way lies vulnerability for any strengths that windows may have (for all it's weaknesses) is forever denied to us. Looking like windows is not in and of itself bad. On the other hand, if one doesn't like the UI then the criticism is (locally) valid.

6. Gnome seems to go for flashy and neat stuff. KDE seems more professional. I have never been able to deal well with Enlightenment. It seems to give up functionality and ease of use in favor of a sort of bizzare flash. KWM seems (to me) very no nonsense, direct, intuitive, and functional.

7. KDE seems more integrated. I like the fact that kpanel handles the (excelent) task bar and that the task bar can grow so large. I like the desktop icons. (E's desktop icons always and other accessories just seem to be in the way and I turn them off.) Gnomes components overlap each other and generally don't seem to "know about" each other. Gnome's taskbar seems quite limited in comparison to KDE's, especially with lots of apps running. (Yes, I know I'm coming down hard on Gnome and E but just wait... ;-) )

8. KDE's memory requirement is embarrasing. Nobody involved with KDE ever seems to even care about that. I *cannot* set up a low memory 486 system built out of "junk parts" for friends using KDE which is sad because those are the very friends that could benefit most from KDE! Memory usgage may be KDE's greatest weakness.

9. Gnome has lower memory requirements by a long shot. As I understand it, ORBit is much more efficient than MICO and that MICO was originally written as an educational tool and nothing more. (Don't assume I know what I'm talking about here, about MICO. I just *heard* this. I don't know that for sure.)

10. I get the impression that the Gnome team has started at a lower level, building a foundation of ORBit, etc. which will pay off in the long run, whereas KDE picked available tools a jumped right into coding the GUI. This is not a criticism of KDE. If KDE were not here, we would not have anything finished and ready right now or over the last year or two and Linux/Unix would not be in as good a shape. (The two projects may be complememtary in that way.) I'm interested in (*constructive*) comments about the quality of the relative foundations.

11. From what I understand KDE and QT pretty much constrict the developer to C++. Now aside from the relative merits of C, C++, and other languages, I notice that compared to C expertise, C++ expertise is relatively scarce which has bearing on the size of the future developer community.

12. QT had a very problematic license. The first draft of QPL was troublesome. (That whole business of "patches only".) Current QPL seems more palletable, though not GPL or LGPL.

13. Development of GTK is very impotant to the OSS initiative.

14. Finally. RedHat, for better or worse, is currently the most influential Linux distributor. I like RedHat, myself. I think that RedHat had the best of intentions in throwing such support behind the Gnome project. I wish Trolltech had changed their minds a long time ago. If they had, we wouldn't have this conflict. If they had stayed with their old license, I think that Gnome would eventually have just phased itself in and KDE would be phased out. Now it just looks like a big division for a long time.

15. Be careful how you interpret the last paragraph. I'm not pro or con RedHat's support of Gnome, or more accurately, I'm not sure if I'm pro *or* con. I'm just the sort of person who likes to know what to expect... to have a plan.

-Steve

P.S. Where's the spellchecker? ;-)

anyone know why Gnome wants gtk+-1.1.12 ...

[JoeBuck]

Does anyone know why Gnome 0.99.7 includes gtk+-1.1.12 ... even though the gtk+ guys have released 1.1.15?

gmc *still* can't hold a candle to kfm...

[Knuckles]

Stability wise, your're obviously right. However, last time I tried it (Version 1.0, I think), kfm couldn't even sort the file view. That completely ruled it out for me. I mean, what kind of file manager is that? HTML capable, but can't do the most basic functions of a fm?
BTW, is there less functionality in gmc than in mc? Or does it only appear so? At the moment, I very much prefer mc over gmc.

comment viewing code *is* hosed

[Chomsky]

It's been like this for weeks. Slashdot is broken if you want to read posted comments. Then again, considering the maturity level of discussion on /. nowadays, this might be a feature, not a bug ;)

They lie...

[lnevo]

ftp://sod.res.cmu.edu:21/mirror/ftp.gnome.org/redh at/0.99.7/i386/

has the mirrors of the rpms...

Just finished downloading it...

Enjoy -

FINISHED --18:34:11--
Downloaded: 19,283,601 bytes in 54 files

Thank you

[jcollie]

This is why I ultimately gave up on Gnome and switched to KDE; I couldn't bear the thought of writing all that GUI code without a nice OO C++ framework to support me.

wxWindows (a C++ GUI framework) runs on top of GTK. As an added bonus, you get a cross-platform C++ GUI framework.

GNOME *STILL* Beta, shame on them!

[dirty]

You know it's people like you that make me hate people. Don't you have anything better to do than to complain which desktop someone else uses? Do you really think that we'd be better if KDE was the only desktop available to us? Aren't Linux/FreeBSD (and especially X) supposed to be about choice? Yah KDE may have gotten to 1.0 before GNOME did, but they also started long before GNOME did. I honestly could give a crap if you like KDE or GNOME or fvwm or twm or if you don't believe in window managers. Instead of harassing the community why don't you put all that energy into something usefull. You seem to like KDE so much, so why don't you start writing apps for it? Grow up, we take enough shit from micro$oft, etc. we don't need members of the community turning on each other.

Btw, I am a KDE user.

Actual mirror

[VinceJH]

ftp://sod.res.cmu.edu/mirror/ftp.gnome.org

I just got it from this US mirror.

Call me lazy

[Master Switch]

Call me lazy, but I would like it if they would just tar ball it up into one massive rpm, or tar.gz, or whatever. I hate having to run around looking for seperate libs and the like. Otherwise, congratulations GNOME team, keep up the good work.

RPMS?

[kijiki]

I keep seeing people talk about how Redhat "owns" or "sponsors" GNOME, as if this is a bad thing. I'll assume that these people are new to linux and don't know that redhat also pays Alan Cox to hack the kernel. I've never seen a message saying well, since Redhat sponsors the kernel, they'll release 2.2 in time for Redhat 6.0's ship date. Also, allow me to point out that Troll Tech employs some of the KDE developers. I suppose some people just don't like Redhat, and will delude themselves. Their loss.

They lie...

[kijiki]

If you look at www.gnome.org, you'll see they only announced rpms for the versions that have rpms available. 0.99.7 does, and had no problems getting them. Once I got in, the transfer was 300K/s. I don't see the availability problems to which you allude.

Oh well, no .deb's

[Alfthemack]

You act as if this is bad.

I won't say that gnome sucks.

It's just not as aesthetic as KDE.

Something about gnome just looks... brash.

BTW, if any KDE folks are listening, I liked the default 1.0 colors better than the 1.1.

Oh well, no .deb's

[Alfthemack]

You act as if this is bad.

I won't say that gnome sucks.

It's just not as aesthetic as KDE.

Something about gnome just looks... brash. Even the alternative themes don't sit well with me. (To each his own.)

BTW, if any KDE folks are listening, I liked the default 1.0 colors better than the 1.1.

'Cos REDHAT OWNS GNOME

[Vidar Hokstad]

Eh... Get a grip. RedHat doesn't own Gnome. They only employ a few of the developers. If you really think that everyone working on Gnome are RedHat employees, think again.

Besides, it usually takes a long time even for RPMs to shop up of the development series. These releases aren't for "ordinary" users.

And you won't get me to help start a new Gnome vs KDE flamewar. I'll leave it at saying that I've used Gnome development releases on my regular desktop since 0.22, and it has all the features that I want and need, and the few times I've used KDE, I haven't seen any features that have given me any reason to consider a switch. It's about taste, not about features or quality.

Bandwagoning

[PDG]

I'm stuck in the middle here. I started out with KDE and loved it, but it ate all my memory and etc. I jump over to Gnome and like that too, but its limited, until Gnome .99 came out, and that impossible to get working. Now KDE 1.1 is out and I can't find it. NOW Gnome .99.7 is out and I wonder which is becoming more of a nightmare.

It seems like KDE has their shit more together, but I hear that Gnome is easier on the hardware. Is this true?

Any reasons to use one versus the other?



PDG--"I don't like the Prozac, the Prozac likes me"

They lie...

[four]

Good god, won't they ever mirror this stuff before they announce it? The 0.99.7 tarballs are on the mirrors..they never announced any binarys yet.

They lie...

[Needles]

gnome.org never announced RPMS for 99.5 (because there were any released).

- jay