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Quake Source in Late 99?
Anthony Fuentes
writes "According to this .mp3 interview with John
Carmack (@37:15), he is planning to release the source to
quake in late 1999. Doesn't sound like he has completely
committed, but cool none the less. "
Like you can't find Quake source code at every other ftp site already....
Uh, dude. I did mean the full source to the game/renderer...
Wasnt talking about the Q2 client source code, I mean Quake 1.10 or whatever the latest version is.
I was guessing that the quake source would be
officially released this year since the Wolf3d
and DOOM sources were released three years after
their commercial releases. And yes, the quake client source
is around. I am not too sure but (as mentioned
above) crack.com was hacked, and the X11 port's
source was obtained. Then someone coded a svgalib
interface, but id did not accept it (since it was
written with stolen code), but they hired someone
to do unix ports, and the rest is history.
I hate having to reboot to winblows just to listen to things like this. When is my Sonic Impact (maestro-2 based) card going to be supported?
Oh, and Carmack mentions a 32-bit 3dfx card. about time.
OK, so demand isn't going to be that high, but I would love it!
Maybe we'll even get a Warp3D version so we can have a decent hardware accelerated game.
Now, if only more games were made OSS...
The difference is that you can't create any sort of respectable free software project with it, since you don't have any sort of license for the code. As for making a proprietary commercial product... Ha ha.
Any extant released code is only good for examining to learn something about programming, or for releasing very lightly modified versions of the game.
The next stable beta release should be much cleaner than the periodic betas. I know what you mean about getting them to compile, it's virtually impossible half the time.
Any open source is good open source. Bring it on!
Hold yer horses there, pardner. If Id keeps to their usual pattern, it may be "open" source but not Open Source (tm), since prior source releases have been for non-commercial use only.
I'd love for Id to prove me wrong, but based on prior history I wouldn't expect the free-software purists to be too interested in this one.
I'd prefer a 3D engine that actually works and can be used to make something, /JUST YET/" perpetually. I also found :) I do have
than one that is being developed at what seems like a
snails pace. I'm well aware that CrystalSpace has
a TON of features being put in, but I'd rather have
a working game engine, and then have things added
to it as it goes along, instead of "it's not suitable
for a game
CS to be an unweildly MESS of C++ hierarchy. Then
again, perhaps it's just my C++ allergy.
a lot of repsect for the people working on the project. No disrespect intended.
I challenge anyone to find the full source to the game/renderer, etc etc.
hmm..
ls ~/src
-rw------- ******** peon 404617 Sep 19 03:14 linuxquake-1.01-src.tar.gz
I believe I found it..
is there any integration with GGI and what about hardware acceleration? Does CS use Mesa to support languages like OpenGL?
iD has released sources for Wolfenstein and Doom once they stopped making major money from them. It would make sense to continue the tradition; although the announcement is not surprising, it is still nice to see it ;)
RTS.
What's an 'AC'?
Maybe it looks like you're moving faster because you're so close to the ground. Based on how high doorknobs are, your eyes are about 4' off the ground.
The source code already got released underground, last year, from a hacked ID site.
> Does CS use Mesa to support languages like OpenGL?
What is that supposed to mean?
Whoa... and I thought it was just Alan Cox.
It was one man who cracked crack.com
It was great!
Crystal Space can use GGI on Linux and for hardware accelerated support there is Glide.
There is a Linux port of Allegro, and there is support for Allegro on DOS, but I dunno if Crystal Space can use Allegro/Linux for now. So yes, Crystal Space can use GGI on Linux and on more so Crystal Space is using the X Window System and XFree86.
If you use GNU toolchain it should compile, but I don't know when there is going to be audio support on Solaris. Heh.
There is support for MMX if the processor supports it and assembly rutines on Intel compatible CPU compatible series if you use gcc or DOS djgpp.
hi,
ummm what do you mean by "even if they hate RMS"? Do you mean idsoftware?
A few years ago Carmack won about $20,000 in one night playing black jack and he donated it to the free software foundation.
Many times he has commented on his support of FSF.
I guess the only reason that quake1/2/3 are proprietry is that John Carmack is making millions of dollars from it.
ws
Na, I would say wolf3d would win that award.
Speaking of which, has anyone seen that linux wolf3d port?
(i think its http://emu.simplenet.com/misc/wolf3d)
I would try it myself but i dont own the retail game
or did anyone else find the quake code horrifying?
they don't even use SINE TABLES, for godsakes.
and.... the irony of joke beowulf posts has worn thin, and we have all begun to chaffe. would you please -shut-the-fuck-up-?
-moss
Strange. I had quake.src.tgz about a year ago.
Maybe it's still somewhere in my archives.
What was that? Leak?
Anyway, never been really interested in those textured 3d..
.
I don't think that CS development is slow.
Last six months there have been new beta releases
to CS about once every week and sometimes even
twice. There is just a lot to do (I speak as the
main author of the project).
Jorrit Tyberghein (Jorrit.Tyberghein@uz.kuleuven.ac.be)
CS is work in progress. This means that problems
are unavoidable. However, later this week 0.12
will be released. This version should be much
more easier to compile and will come with updated
documentation. We will also provide ready made
executables for most ports (Linux, Windows, and
DOS for sure but maybe also for the other ports).
URL http://crystal.linuxgames.com
Greetings,
I'm sure that if the source is released legal ports will follow /very/ quickly; the code is fairly portable (apparently ;). Is QuakeGL an id product or not? (in other words, are we likely to see that?) And while I'm being demanding, how about Quakeworld :)
:)
Having said that, how many Amiga PPC owners don't already have it...hmm?
good for you
very sad subscript on yer email though...
do you think anyone gives a flying fsck about the video game industry?
they sit there in their own little private world, where games are all that matters.
grow up and realize that very few in the real world care about video games.
dude, you have no clue.
there's getting *quality* code out the door.
id does neither.
--
You're being a bit harsh on id. The guy had a point. There's usually all manners of pressure to release, and often the release schedule has been determined with only passing (or imagined) consultation with engineering.
It's been my experience that marketing/sales timetables are the driving force behind release dates. And those timetables are often driven by whatever event happens to be *close* to when engineering says they can get a certain set of features completed and tested.
There's plenty of applications that have some pretty brutal code. Mozilla took almost three months to release, and I understand that a lot of that time was code cleanup. All that talk a while ago about Eudora going Open Source is hooey for that very reason (well, along with many others). The code for Eudora Pro is largely laughable. There's not enough manpower to clean it up before it could go OS. Even if they wanted to.
It's the same with many other applications. You can't make money if you don't release the product. Sometimes what's ugly and works isn't that ugly.
Quality code is nice if you aren't starving.
That's what I heard anyway, from OSS.
At home on my cdrom I burned 15 months ago. It's sitting there waiting to become legal. Yes, I grabbed it off one of the ftp sites before it got zapped, but I never did anything with it due to my respect for id.
Yeah, yeah, I could/should have deleted it before I made the CD, but too late now, so I hope that JC releases the Quake source sooner than later (I have ideas...)
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
Someone asked about releasing the Q1 engine source last fall... Carmack's reply was something to the effect of "it would be in bad taste to release the source when some licensees have yet to release a product..."
:wq
I've always been impressed with id. I still remember the first time I tried DOOM - it blew me away. Imagine, he was WALKING and it LOOKED LIKE HE WAS! Ever since then I've been a real id booster. With their releases of Wolfenstein and Doom source code, they really do show that they're much more friendly towards free software and consumers in general than most people. They don't make any money off DOOM anymore, so why not release the code? They still own the copyright on their levels. They should be emulated by many companies.
Perhaps my internal luser-filter prompted me to ignore them, but I didn't see anyone saying that they should release their current stuff.
Even a lot of otherwise hardcore OSS folks consider gaming a special case (or support, say, OSS engines and proprietary data files).
Shaddup.
:)
Not all of us have access to such services in our hometowns. I know I dread returning home for breaks because I don't have my wonderful dorm ResNet service.
*DSL doesn't exist in my area, and TKR cable (Bridgewater, NJ) doesn't even know what a cable modem is.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
It sounds like Ozzy Ozbourne was the interviewer!!
Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
This allows young programmers who have never seen professional source code, see how it's done. Think of all of the kids with computers thinking of getting into Visual Basic. But now they have this killer state of the art game they can actually learn from written in some other language.
Linux is only free if your time has no value. Windows is only free if you threaten to use Linux.
I like the idea of interviews in mp3. Especially because my rvplayer is giving me errors :-(
and of course the code you can find on the web is the latest production code, cleaned up with instructions to compile etc...get real
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
It appears the MP3 was pulled because it wasn't :(
supposed to be posted to the public
Anyone have a mirror?
-- Jochen
Know why? Because shipping any game is tougher than shit. At the start, everything is exciting and the enthusiasm is high. Writing new code is fun. But at the end, when all you're doing is fixing bugs life is miserable, and your only goal is getting the f****er out the door.
Not that that is unique to writing games. But games make it tougher by putting a premium on performance (well, not SSI maybe;), and how quickly they become yesterdays technology.
So since it's not going to be used a decade later, there is no reason to sweat over making it look like the standard C library. Just point out to a kid looking at the code that here is an example of a program that runs on millions of machines without a hitch. I think you'll see some beauty in it then.
You can get your Maestro-2 to work by booting into DOS and loading the DOS-based initialization driver, then using LOADLIN to load Linux. It will see the Maestro-2 as a regular SoundBlaster (can't remember if it is Pro or 16 -- probably Pro).
Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
I'd rather see more work on crystal space. Why wait for an obsolete engine to come out when you can work on the state of the art
crystal.linuxgames.com
---
that's ok. Some people want the state of the art and that's what crystal space is for. Some are more interested in stability because a game that crashes means that you "die" when you play.
---
Could that possibly be because the FPU is fast enough anyway? Personally I found the Quake source (not that I've seen it, honest ;) pretty typical of game runtimes. Heavily optimised in places that matter, bit of a hack where it doesn't. It's all about efficiency, including that of development time.
Incidentally, the information you can glean from the tools is much more informative than the runtime.
Carmack has, let me see, how many games out there? And you have?
The 'Right Way To Do Things' is to ship, even if it's a hack. Remember, this is a game, not an operating system, or a CAD package, a game.
correct me if i'm wrong
but, at least, one of the ways the FSF says you can make money off a GPL'd program
is to sell technical support (ala RedHat)
while this is fine for something like Linux, which can be daunting to the new user
a game like Quake is not that hard to figure out
the reason i post this, is becuase i see some of you griping that they don't GPL or OpenSource thier current moneymaking programs
well, the reason is they would have been out of business shortly after wolfenstien3d.
and we really couldn't have that could we?
i know i would be an even sadder person than i already am without Wolf3D, DooM, and Quake
just a thought...
D. Alan Hurst
When this happens, this will be amazing. Source code to a really high quality game. I can't wait, I want to poke around the OpenGL code, rendering code, etc. It will be interesting to see how a game as complex as Quake is coded.
:)
Too bad the network code will be rather old and crusty, but even then it'll be a pleasure to look at
id has released the source to every major game they did. No reason to assume they wont keep doing it.
Who in the world puts >5mb mp3 files on a server that does not support resumes?? How RETARTED. Anyone have a mirror of the two files?
Actually I have cable modem access, but I can't keep it connected for more than a few minutes at a time!
I get it thru Mediaone. Just stay away from them if you are thinking about cable.. THEY SUCK!
Yes, it is most fsck'd up. One-way cable, one way phone line, and it disconnects me every few minutes lately.. definitely not worth what its costing me
>Imagine if MS were to release the source to Win3.1. What the hell would you do with it?
Laugh at it??
:)
iD releasing the source for Quake is a far cry from the conventional attributions of Open Source. It is not open, but released as a useful tool for people to learn from and advance with. Essentially iD is giving away 'obsolete' technology, since no one will want to license it anymore with the coming advent of Quake3:Arena.
Not that this isn't a good thing, it just isn't the same as Open Source with Capital Letters. It will still be useful and helpful for cadres of programmers wanting to learn something about graphics and real time rendering, and maybe even network stuff if they release the QuakeWorld stuff. Anyhow, it's still not official, so we'll have to wait!
AS
AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
Actually, yeah =)
After the release of the Doom source, a whole bunch of improved versions came out; Boom, PRBoom, ZDoom, GLDoom, WinDoom, etc. In fact, most of them have added significant improvements(Key bindings, jump, z-look, more special effects, less limitations, better graphics/sound/resolution, hardware acceleration), and are currently in the process of rolling them up into one. Just because its old does not make Doom outdated. In very many ways Doom was more fun and satisfying than Quake ever was, and good games does not rely on state of the art engines. Look at Jedi Knight and many of their 2d adventure games... They are all hits without relying on technology beyond Commander Keen or DooM. Someone will see the Quake code, see how good it is, and add to it 3d sound support, or voice over network, maybe some real dynamic lighting/shading code, more real world physics, portals, etc.
It is far from useless. I really do think someone will take it and run with it...
AS
AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
I agree. I don't see any way for the engine to be open source, if we compare the gaming engine to new technology coverable under patents and property laws. The source art, sounds, models, etc, things that actually make the game, have long been 'open' from iD/Id, ever since the popularity of hacking into DooM/DooMII, so in one real sense the game itself is open source; anyone can make any game they want, with the QuakeC or DLLs, and with their own or Id/iDs art, sounds, and models... Only stipulation I believe is to pay for a license if a commercial product is to be released.
For all intents and purposes, I think iD/Id games do satisfy open source and public licenses in a loose way, just that the really important/special/money making parts are closed and covered up... The rendering engine, the network engine, and the data format/world representations...
AS
AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
Ah, but the difference is that by modifying the Quake source and game engine all these benefits could retroactively be applied to every single Quake mod, conversion, TC, derivative, and even the original... As well as new games and such, since all the editors, tools, and support structure for Quake already exist, whereas for Crystal Space a lot of it is still in development. That is one of the biggest reasons people work on the DooM code, because of the widespread support and infrastructure already in place; imagine how much more exists for Quake, which some still think offers the best internet play despite Quake2...
AS
AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
Any open source is good open source. Bring it on!
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
Hmmm.... IIRC real Quake source *was* released by some hackers who got it by hacking crack.com's server. So yeah... *full* source is out and has been out for 2-3 years already.
mtor
Don't get mad at id for their "open" release of doom. They wanted to make it an Open release, but they had licensed the sound engine, remember? Even though I doubt it'll be open in the GPL sense, it stands a good chance of being darn close. These guys still care about the community... most of the folks at id now WERE "the community" within a measurable timeframe.
-Chris