Slashdot Mirror
Computerworld article on Linux "Silliness"
An anonymous reader sent us a link to an article that
expresses the most amazing cluelessness
about Linux I've seen yet outside of the creative panel that
brings us Jesse Berst. A few good points, and a bunch of
obnoxious flame dragging statements that make me irritable.
It's like he's trying to bait Slashdot readers. Don't
take the bait. This one isn't worth it.
Linux is clearly a great OS being followed by a bunch of narrow minded zealots second only to a bunch of Mac users.
Well, I thought it was fine. I think you've missed the point. I think this article is a pleasantly funny look at the ridiculous media hype around Linux. Don't take things so seriously.
That ridiculous media hype is the same thing that made Microsoft what it is today! Hyppocrites! They don't want M$ to rule the world, but can't handle the new found enthusiasm for the alternative. If you don't want to take part in the enthusiasm, then don't, but why knock a company for trying to commit to something great? Just because they haven't actually documented their intentions, at least they are on the right track. Keep an eye on M$ stock everyone! heheheh glad that isn't where my ducks are!
I don't see why an operating system needs /sound effects/
But have you ever seen them swim?
They're quite graceful.
Which is more absurd, giving an OS a penguin mascot or calling an OS "Windows New Technology"?
Well at the bottom of the article, it invited your comments. I gave the editor a piece of mine, but was overly nice about what I thought of him/them.
It was a lame article. Just because he's a boring
flaming old fart who can only criticise.
I mean he calls Linus a "creep".
Buddah was known for someone who would repay insults with kindness. One day a man went to test him and give him insult after insult, but Buddah would not repay kind in kind.
Buddah said to him "if someone gives you a gift, but you do not accept it, who does the gift belong to". The man replied, "it belongs to him who tried to give the gift", "so then" said Buddah, "who do the insults you try to give to me belong to?".
I don't see Linus going around calling people names.
Just because these so-called "zealots" are trying to keep the chassis of the great computer industry machine open for access by the People doesn't make them fanatics.
They're revolutionaries. They fight for what they believe in. Just because you're here for the free ride doesn't mean we all should just abandon the responsibility for defending that which made Linux great.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favour freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are people who want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.
-- Frederick Douglass, slavery abolitionist
Tell us - what is the price of freedom? Eternal vigilance. 'tis about time the Gen-X'ers figured that out. Salute!!
(Steve)
Linux Is For Everyone!
The author of ths article is expressing his frustration at what he sees as the need for linux followers to be more _professional_.
I think that the criticisms that goad you the most are perhaps the ones you need to listen to carefully. It does seem that linux is at a critical juncture, and if linux is to reach beyond the enterprise and reach the desktop, how linux is presented to the mainstream must be considered.
Alan Cox's essay "Brave New World" posted here on slashdot recently touched upon the same issues. Linux can not be a 'culture' unto itself that people must 'join'. Nor can it be about a cute party penguin. What linux has to be about first is getting your computer to work better, faster, and cheaper.
It is easy to be distracted from what the goal of the linux community should be, the widespread acceptance of 'technically and economically justified' linux. The stuff surrounding linux while fun, should not be allowed to get in the way.
Mindful of this, the only thing I find disagreeable is the title "quick-when was the last time you saw silliness win a battle against Microsoft?". Quit frankly, I have not seen _anything_ win a battle against Microsoft.
Maybe it takes a silly penguin......
phillipkennedy@email.com
Gee, is this guy clueless or what?
Come on, LinuxWorld is for Linux fanatics;
your run of the mill Linux user is not going
to attend. What about Linus Torvalds's quote
in the article? I find it kind of hard to
believe he would say something like this, is
it true? Why in the hell is having a penguin
for a mascot any more or less stupid than using
a piece of fruit? This seems like a bunch of
disinformation to me. I'm not one of these
paranoid types, but could this guy own a bunch
of Microsoft stock or something? Geez, if this
guy wants to see a bunch of fanatics, why is
he not criticising Mac users?
Worst of all, there is no e-mail address to
set this twit straight!!
So what were the "few good points" that he made? That there are Linux fanatics - what OS doesn't have them? That Linux has a cute mascot - what's wrong with that? That silliness will never defeat Microsoft - what OS has ever tried "silliness" against Microsoft anyway? That Linus is idol worshiped by a bunch of geeks - how would Linux have gotten anyware if geeks hadn't jumped on board the Linux bandwagon? So, what, Linux should have a deadly serious mascot (a frowny face perhaps) with a Deadly Serious OS(tm) name? All this article was, was nothing more than venting by someone who says he wants alternatives to the M$ status quo, but who gets upset because people are actually starting to take an alternative seriously. Sounds to me like his yearning for a M$ alternative is entirely rhetorical.
Ask any anthropologist. We are closely related to the chimps, but we more resemble baby chimps than adults. Hence our small jaws, big brains, etc. Grim Duty may earn the bucks, but it's play that makes tools to do the work. "More intelligence, and less seriousness"? Like Richard Feynman, or Albert Einstein? The suits will put a serious face on Linux soon enuf, but it will always be the geeks in the back room who write the code.
A world without play is like, well, a world without fun. (BTW, I'm 48 & just became a computer professional 5 years ago. I did it by playing. nyahh nyaahh)
-freehand
He didn't post his email, cause he knew he'd get posts like that.
Laugh and move on.
Another?cluel?ss moron attem?pting to?communicate
using an?M?S? piece?of?sh?t
?sure?wish?he?d?fix?his? ?marks
I think the guy who wrote that article is right about Linus. He even said it out loud "I don't care a lot about you people". uuuh. Hellloooo? Stuff like that is enough to make me furious, even if my contributions to the linux kernel isn't that big. The guy is always getting credit for everything. I understand RMS totally when gets upset with Linus getting all the credit for 'Linux'. It's GNU/Linux damnit! W/o the GNU project, Linus would be an underpaid teacher at the Helsinki University right now.
Linus needs a serious dose of gratitude.
My 2
I think the article I just read
"Quick - when's the last time silliness won a battle against Microsoft? "
By Don Tennant
Is a horrible piece of so called journalism. Its surprising that a business would
actually publish such a pathetic piece of material. The author seemed as though he was upset at the world and taking It out on Linux. For god's sakes he's making cracks at the Linux penguin if that's the only thing he can come up with to attack I'd say we have nothing to worry about and Linux is in pretty damn good shape.
There are people in existance that have made good arguments and constructive critisms regarding Linux but for you anti-Linux people out there, I wouldn't bother backing this guy up, he seems less than informed and writes like an angry teenager. We do have to remember that we are somewhat over protective of our OS of choice and we tend not take the time to step back and take an objective view of people's oposing positions. So lets just take it in stride...like our helpful Slashdot head honcho CmdrTaco said "This one isn't worth it." and I must agree.
I've stopped trying to sell people on Linux...Its like dealing with people with a drug problem...They have to want to get help
Staunch
You don't KNOW what context Linus said that in. He
could easily have said that with HEAVY sarcasm.
Until you know for sure, don't be such a fucking
sheep and believe everything some hack writer puts
into an article.
Two thumbs right up your ass.
That's a name I haven't heard used in many a year. Was that was the OS that the magazines would review and then tell you that you don't need multithreaded multistaking, that you would be better off with windows 3.1 ? Maybe it
was that OS that was beat to death in 94/95 because it was slow when run with only 4 megs of ram,( yes it ran in 4 megs, but was slow...),
but windows 95 required 16 megs of ram?
The more inroads Linux makes the more you can expect these types of articles, some will pretend to be fuuny, but really they server only one purpose, and that is to further promote the Microsoft Agenda, yes DOJ or not Microsoft still
controls most the computer press, and as whenever
Microsoft determines it is time to pull the rug our from Linux, the computer press will go wild
and rant about the Linux fanatics and the linux
developers floundering.
The OS/2 users put up a good fight, but in the end lost to the powerful press controlled by Microsoft, and take heed linux users- the same thing can happen to you if you ar enot careful!
I did respond to the publisher of the article.
I made comment that most of us are not the zealots
that Mr. Tennant described, that if we're involved
with networks, we tend to use heterogenous systems
and usually follow the paradign: "use the best
tool for the job" (which is Novell, MS NT, W95,
Linux and 2 other flavors of Unix are used where
I work.).
Aside: I also asked if they'd pay me to write
articles. Heck, I can whine better than that!
Firewall
Do you really think Bill Gates "cares" about all his users and developers? I would rather have someone at the helm who's interested in a project for technical reasons (and who is hence more likely to do the best he can) than someone who claims to care about his users, each and every one.
As far as the ego thing goes, I hardly think RMS is innocent there either. I call Linux "Linux" because it's short and sounds reasonably good. And would we all be using GNU HURD now if Linus Torvalds never existed? I think not.
I just got a neat idea - while I absolutely realize that everyone is entitled to an opinion regarding OSs, etc. - but I do believe that when one disses something/one, one should at least try to make -some- research regarding the subject. And most of all, I believe magazines should never publish articles just for the hits to the site, regardless of caliber of the magazine, or of any other issues. If they ever do that, I believe readers should hit them with what matters most to them - stop being readers :) Long story cut short, I just cancelled my Computerworld subscription, and I urge everyone else who disagrees with the article to a point of disgust to do so :).
Cheers,
Pseudo Nim
pseudo@dsnet.net
Hah, revolutionaries?
Beware of revolutionaries that call themselves revolutionaries. And of the type of people who keep quoting dead presidents and other hiostorical figures to make their point.
The funny thing is that Linus himself is not an ideologist or anything. He's just someone who does what he likes to do, and finds out that he's made a 'revolutionary' impact on the world. That's my kind of guy!
Not you ideological revolutionaries with your silly signatures. This is technology not religion.
Peter
why not lock this person up with RMS and let see how see write about it...
Forgot about Bob? Forgot about Clippy?
At least Linux developers don't waste their time
programming silly cartoons instead of
FIXING THE BUGS!!
And the Slashdot `Clueless so-called reporter of the year' prize goes to..
1. it wasnt from linus being 'fond of penguins'
it was coz a fuggin penguin bit him at the zoo
2. linus didnt name it after himself, the guy
running the ftp server where he first put it up
asked him to use the name.
Well said. "Maybe it takes a silly penguin..."
(to win the battle against microsoft)
The origional article in computerworld by some vapid teenager complaining about the corny penguin did accidentally mention some important aspects about the outside view of linux.
He unfortunatly missed the point that people who want to take take an active roll in the technology affecting their lives, can once again do so.
davis@geo.umass.edu
I flamed the punk, too. He deserved it.
Well... Mine is the powerful image of 60 million penguins gracefully flopping onto their backs as the Harrier flies overhead. :P
If there is a problem with something in those logos, it's a lack of humor on M$ part -- this is probably why M$ followers see others' logos/maskots as silly.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Oh you are one of those quitters, eh?
---------------
Do not discount the fact that you have free will.
The problem is this person didn't offer *any* constructive criticism.
He just offered his opinion, and some uniformed "facts".
Constructive criticism would be: "Linux has great potential but is missing a user friendly user interface."
All this guy had to offer was "Their logo sucks." and "I think all the other Linux developers are out there to make ME(Linus) look good." (Taken from the out of context "I don't care about you people" quote)
All I saw in this article was potential FUD for more IT managers to use against Linux.
---------------
Do not discount the fact that you have free will.
and it was good.~
^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~^~~^
As for the rest, it sounds mostly like he's pissed off that other people are having fun, mixed in with not understanding human nature (people wanting the reward of tangiable things for themselves before "The common good"), and not doing his fact checking... Linus called it "Freax", dammit.
Besides, the success and future of Linux aren't just about corporate strategy. The corporates may well stand more to gain from Linux (by getting a level playing field for their products) than Linux does from the corporates (getting a few more apps)
Penguins don't/can't run anywhere near 100mph.
Umm...of course they can't. What culture do you belong to that doesn't recognise that Linus post as humour? It's like the quote about Linus just being lazy and not caring about other people. Is this type of humour really that obscure? This isn't a flame, I'm really interested as I'm sure that humour does vary from place to place....I'm just not sure to what extent.
dylan_-
--
Igor Presnyakov stole my hat
There. See I missed the humor because I automatically assumed he was talking about a penguin under water, perhaps in a SeaQuarium. I don't know the top speed for a swimming penguin, but I can't imagine a more graceful swimmer.
My favorite penguin quality is that powerful image of the male emperor pengiun sitting on an egg in a near coma through the Antarctic winter 200 miles inland for weeks. No sun, hurricane force winds and 70 below. He just stands there and keeps the next generation alive. And when the female comes to relieve him in the spring and the egg hatches, he waddles with the rest single file for that 200 miles back to the ocean for breakfast. Beat that for a mascot. Especially considering that we have only just come onto Microsoft's radar, and we are lilkely to be in for a long, cold struggle from here.
Linux-keep the dream alive.
[-- Trust the Monkey --]
Not too bad, he certainly hit on some of the less flattering characteristics of professional {Linux,Mac,Amiga} zealots. Or at least, something that most people tend to associate with {said OSes}.
Case in point being CmdrTaco's take on it. Relax, laugh, go on with your life. Etc.
I would say he nailed it.
The logo sucks.
The idolatry of Linus is pathetic.
The comparison to going to the dance is right on the money.
I guess I am tired, but I just finished fighting with Gnome. And you think Windows crashes?
Get over it. No flame for that guy. Two thumbs up.
Maurice W. Hilarius Voice: (778) 347-9907
Hey, we are just having fun. Tux is cool. And so is Linus... humble, and honest. It wasn't even him that named the kernel Linux.
:)
This guy doesn't matter. Professionalism (I'm assuming that was his point) only gets you so far. Eventually, you have to show the code. Since Linux wasn't developed to "take over the world," why bother with the formality? It just makes the coding/testing/recoding process a whole lot less fun. I'm sure enough of us have to worry about the suits at work... who the hell would want to bring THAT home?
Let's get back to coding...
... why, oh why, does it have to be about "Linux everywhere?" I've no problem with Linux everywhere, but what kind of goal is that? And no matter what the goal(s), is there something wrong with having quite a bit of fun getting there? If some people are uncomfortable with that, they are still free to use Linux without buying a stuffed penguin.
I agree it shouldn't get in the way, but the goal shouldn't get in the way of the fun, either. Nobody has to 'join.' But alot of people could stand to lighten up about life in general... and alot of things in the Linux community lean that way. Nothing wrong with it, at least to my eyes. I find it refreshing, in fact.
A big thing to remember (and a LOT of people seem to overlook this lately...) Linux has as many goals as it has users and developers. That's the way it always has been... and should remain.
The author is incorrect in claiming the Linus named Linux after himself. Linux named the OS Frenix. A freind of his coined the name Linux and it stuck.
Troy
I sure don't remember the last time any of my hardware won any battles against Microsoft. Usually it just curls up in the corner and whimpers.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Some people have told me they don't think a fat penguin really embodies
the grace of Linux, which just tells me they have never seen a angry
penguin charging at them in excess of 100mph. They'd be a lot more
careful about what they say if they had. -- Linus Torvalds
'nuff said.
Why the hell should he care much about you? Does he know you personally? No, I didn't think so. I sure don't care about you much, and I don't know you, either. Even if I did know you, I probably wouldn't care much about you, because it doesn't sound like you're the sort of person I care about.
You're the sort of person who would get miffed because {insert celebrity here} doesn't wave back at you in the crowd.
Geez, he's just being honest. He didn't say that he wished the crowd would rot in hell or something.
Silly hysterical people.
A host is a host from coast to coast...
Unless it's down, or slow, or fails to POST!
Hey let's face it. Every geek I've ever known
has a massive silly side to him/her.
And where did Linux rise from? And what kind of
people made it the glorious piece of work that it
is?
Geeks built and maintain Linux. Linux is so
awesome, because the geeks know how to do things
right. And a fundamental goal of Linux is to
have fun with it. So a little silliness spilled
in. The fact that world domination is happening
is a direct consequence to building such a high
quality system. Oh sure, we could be professional
with a low-quality system like some other OS
company. But I think we see where that leads
in terms of user satisfaction.
Have a great day, everyone.
Linux, on the other hand, is freeware and does not depend on income or market share to keep going. Those help, to be sure, but aren't part of the base conditions for success.
Jon
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
"Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong"
Oscar Wilde
Then you must not read comp.unix.advocacy.
But seriously, even I, the avoider of Linux, caught a factual error in this article -- I have it on good authority that Linus had to be talked into naming the OS Linux instead of Freax.
Curmudgeonliness is good and right, but a curmudgeon who doesn't have his research straight is nothing but a common flamer.
Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
well, as a Hong Kong people, I feel ashamed that this kind of article would even appear in those so-called "mainstream" magazines. But luckily this is only an exception.
IT people in Hong Kong is beginning to take notice of Linux, and many univ / college students are using Linux. But only a "beginning" thou.
There's also a LUG in Hong Kong. Not a professional org as it should be, but since this LUG is new, I think it'll be better later.
Hey, there's linux for mac's. right? =) Personally, if your gonna run linux, run it on the systems it was orginally made for.
hehe, hate it when i forget my password =)
~centurion
I got the joke, but I was a little upset that they put down Linus so strongly. Why shouldn't people want to meet the guy in person? I'm sure there are plenty of people who want to meet Bill, after all.
We don't have a BillOS because Bill doesn't have a personal link to it. He paid people to write it, that's all. Linux is Linux because the design and philosophy came out of the heart and mind of one person.
D
----
Hey, don't go dissing "The Microsoft Sound!" I wonder who the idiot at M$ was though who set the "Ta-Da!" (original start sound) to be the default shutdown wound instead... Used to be "Ta-Da! You're Starting Windows!" but now it's changed to "Ta-Da! You're Rebooting into Linux!"
Our beloved Tux is there because he got bit because he made his finger look like a herring at a zoo.
Penguins don't/can't run anywhere near 100mph.
Some guy thought it'd be a funny excuse for a linux penguin.
Talk to Larry Ewing about it, He drew Tux and Linus saw it and liked it. That's it. Linus is fond of penguins tho.
As far as the article goes, Rob is right. It's not worth any time writing to him.
"Those who can can, and those who can't teach (or write slanderous non-accurate critique's)"
The guys a loser, who likes his sound effects and a FLAG (want to talk about a stupid logo.. I could see a window but a f*'in flag?) in every free corner of his desktop. He'll be out of a job in a few years if Linux keeps on gaining momentum like it is.
That's a thought to keep your dreams happy.
(And Bill being forced to use Linux when he has to get a real job because M$ crumbles)
delusions.. no, just wishful thinking.
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.
Do some Linux users have such fragile egos that they cannot cope with a little constructive criticism of their beloved OS? I use both Windows and Linux, simply because Windows is better suited to some of the things I do (e.g. games and web-browsing), while Linux is better for coding (I'm a university student studying computer science) and is generally more fun to tinker with. Several years ago I used to be an Amiga fanatic myself, and it wasn't until Commodore went bust and I bought a PC that I learnt to appreciate the different merits of different computers and operating systems. To any Linux zealots reading: if you have a problem with my use of Windows, then hurry up and develop more Linux equivalents to Windows programs, instead of flaming anyone who dares to use an operating system other than Linux.
I'd rather hear Linus say "I don't really care about you people" than to hear him lie and say something like "truly, you are all very important to me."
I think the default shutdown wound was a deep puncture to the calf, but I changed mine to a relatively minor papercut and have been much happier with the operating system as a whole.
I like the penguin. It was the penguin that convinced me to go ahead and make the switch over from Wind'oh!s. I like being associated with an OS that has a mascot that looks so damn happy. --
Okay, I got Linux installed. So where's the free beer everyone keeps talking about??
You nailed it...Linux needs Apps that work like the stuff everybody in Windows land has used for years. Even Linus himself conceded something like this at the last LinuxWorld.
Computers are a means to an end, not an end unto themselves. And if that's true for computers, its doubly so for operating systems. Though arcane, bloated, and slow, Windows makes the world go round because its got the Apps most people want.
The Linux zealots and their criticizers will always be there, but they'll never be remembered for clever remarks or shameless flame throwing.
The folks, quiet or not, who actually heed Linus' advice and make apps which beget more users which beget more apps, which beget more users, and so on and so on and so on, will be remembered for actually DOING something useful. If they're smart about it, they can also get rich.
I was under the impression that NT stood for Northern Telecom.
New Technology works for me too. When you get to the point that acronyms the mean more than the original long name I guess it doesn't matter.
Yesterday it worked.
Today is is not working.
Windows it like that.