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Segfault and User Friendly threatened
Blank Space wrote in stating
"Someone claiming to be representing a corporation has
demanded that Segfault and UserFriendly
remove parodies using its trademarked name from their sites."
Anyone know which corporation?
In other nonsense today,
Niels Provos writes
"Theo de Raadt, OpenBSD Project leader, is being threatened
with legal action if he does not turn over his
domain theos.com
to the Theos Software Corporation (the proud makers of a
new 32-bit OS that can support more than 200 users at the same time!).
The said company only needed about three years to find out about it
and are so gracious to offer $35 as compensation, so
that he can register another domain." Theo de Raadt provides
contact information on his website.
Put simply, they cannot make them stop. Parodies have long been protected from libel/slander suits, on the grounds of fair comment. I just hope that the guys at segfault and User Friendly know that, and don't just kowtow to whatever incarnation of the evil empire threatens them now.
I wonder if this is a wide spread attack on the people that are parodying this company or if it was just one lawyer with some free time and decided that he would send some nice letters to these two sites.
There is also the possibility of it being a hoax in two senses. UF and SF could have gotten together and come up with this idea just to see how the community would react. The other theory would be that someone forged an e-mail. This most likely be wrong if Illiad gets a registered letter.
I am no lawyer (or much of anything for that matter) but the fact that there not allowed to say the companies name would in my universe fall under the idea of lack of freedom of speech. I know that UF is in Canada (i don't know what their laws are about) but I don't know were Segfault is.
I read UF all of the time and enjoy it. I have not read Segfault in recent times. I would not like to see eater of them disappear or be hampered in any means and would like to have the idea that I could also create a site without having to worry about what I said about whatever be it person country or company.
Long dream Nertopia
A LITTLE MORE ON THE DEATH STAR
:)..
09:50 PST 24 MAR 1999
Hey, thanks to everyone who's written in voicing their support for UF in the upcoming litigation. I have to make a couple of things clear, however. 1) At this point I can't divulge who it is, and maybe hinting was a bad idea. 2) Media attention right now isn't appropriate, so contacting Reuters might do harm. 3) I promise to keep you all updated on this. I'm waiting for a registered letter that will confirm the e-mail. Apparently I'll be getting it soon.
THE EVIL EMPIRE HAS REARED ITS UGLY HEAD
08:25 PST 24 MAR 1999
I can not believe the e-mail I got earlier today. It's from you-know-who's legal department. For legal reasons I can't reproduce the entire letter, but here's the gist of it: "You will cease and desist all negative connotations within your cartoon regarding [our client], or we will initiate a suit to claim damages for libel and defamation." Not only does this *irk* me, I'm going to call their bluff. Don't be concerned folks; my own lawyers say they don't have a leg to stand on, but for reasons not entirely clear to me I can't mention my accusers by name until proceedings are under way. I'm sure you can figure out *who* it is I mean.
I'd assume by the first (date wise) reference that the "evil empire" is usually microsoft. But put together with the 2nd message title, "Death Star" it almost makes you think its someone associated with Starwars, and with that long segment about it, it almost makes me wonder, there havent been any Microsoft parities in a while.
Its not FreeBSD, his current parity, he has USED WITH PERMISSION stuff, and I'm sure its not one of the Linux distros
My guesses are: Microsoft or Lucus Arts...
Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
SB.
Indeed, I don't know who the moron that got the idea of suing segfault/UF was, but they managed to forget at least two principles:
Even if they were suing simply as a way to "win-by-bankrupt", they should be careful. The thing that this company seems to forget is that it's becoming much simpler these days to counter-sue for malicious damages. The courts are very receptive to summary judgments in cases like this, and, depending on the judge, I wouldn't be suprised if it's thrown out immediately, and counter damages awarded without even a basic trial. I'd really like to see Illiad and Segfault make a bundle off of them.
By the way, the "Death Star" thing actually got me to thinking of AT&T, even before LucasArts. Getting old....
-Erik
There are always four sides to every story: your side, their side, the truth, and what really happened.
While I am going on as little info as everyone else, I would bet that Lucas Arts, Lucasfilm, etc. do not play any part here. After all, the hint from Illiad included a quote about "negative connotations within your cartoon regarding [our client]." This, coupled with UserFriendly's stance on Microsoft and the many parodies wherein they are the chief "victim," if you will, lead me to believe that it is Microsoft.
As far as the "Death Star" reference, I'd say that this strip and those around it give a pretty clear indication as to whom he is referring.
Yet I do not see the motive behind this move as UserFriendly is not exactly an unknown site, and it is well known that the Open Source community tends to protect its own. Legally, I do not believe they have a leg on which to stand. (Though I'm not a lawyer and could be talking through my hat.) I don't see any outcome other than bad PR for them, which makes me think that perhaps an overeager member of the legal department fired this off without doing his homework.
It will be most interesting to see how this pans out. Especially when our mystery guest is revealed.
Chris
"Wherever you go, there you are."
Humph. theos.com worked fine; theos-software.com is down, "Document contains no data".
:-) Either that, or theos-software is too embarassed to let us see the page.
I guess we know whose operating system works.
D
----
True enough, but neither User Friendly nor Segfault have parodied AT&T in any way, shape or form.
I would say it's likely to be Star Wars, since they have the greatest interest in protecting their trademarks, but I would think that:
(1) Illiad et al would be at least somewhat sympathetic towards a Star Wars argument; few people that I can see have any particular animus towards SW.
(2) Illiad and Segfault have been (deservedly) relentless in attacking Microsoft, but the Star Wars references have been fairly rare, and not negative towards SW.
So I would suspect it's Microsoft, especially with the number of really rude (and stupid, in my view) Microsoft stories that appeared recently.
Still hard to believe it's either - MS has had an "embrace and extend" attitude about anti-MS sites. When I was actively running mine, I got a call from a very nice MS employee who sent me a whole bunch of MS software, gratis, in an effort to get me to change my mind. Didn't work, but I was impressed by the gesture anyway.
D
----
I'm sorry to say this, but I think the time has come for some kind of fund or program to be set up so that lawyers can be hired to defend when needed against stupid lawsuits like this. I'm not sure if the comic strips would qualify for such help, but clearly the Internet is entering a new arena with different rules than what came before.
:)
Corporations with lots of money and lawyers are able to threaten and pick off small opponents on the Web like these comic strips and even individual coders or small companies. Look at all the bogus patents that have been filed lately. The terrible laws being proposed. We know most of these things are completely bogus, but who can fight them? Individual coders and small sites just don't have the money to put up even a small defense against a large corporate legal department with something to gain.
I think a legal fund needs to be set up, or even a staff that can used to challenge patents or fight off dumb lawsuits. Perhaps OSI can set up a marketing division for Open Source apps and get a cut of revenues from products that use the marketing service...the proceeds could go towards the funding of legal services, which would be available on request under certain conditions.
Microsoft is at risk because the open-source/free-software movement is changing the rules of the software business and yanking the rug out from under Microsoft's feet. But, the other side of the coin is that the new spotlight and the "mainstreaming" of open-source makes things like lawsuits and patents much more relevant to the open-source community than they used to be. The rules are changing for open-source too, and the community has to be able to respond, or it's possible that high-profile projects like GNU, Linux, KDE, GNOME and Apache won't be able to continue developing without being plagued with legalities that are like maggots on a rotting carcass.
Thanks if you're still reading. This is a lot longer than I meant it to be, but I had to get this off my chest. The rules are changing for open-source, just as the rules age changing for Microsoft et al. We know Microsoft will make some kind of response...what response will open-source make?
(Is this long enough to count as a feature?
-- John Truong
(Assuming that Mikey$oft are the ones who (allegedly) wrote this letter, which isn't certain but does seem to have been implied...)
Let's step back and look at this for a moment, shall we?
No matter how badly they've mucked up the antitrust case in the court, Mikey$oft is not stupid. Certainly not stupid enough to pull a stunt like this.
Let's face it, this is the Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, and one of our greatest hot-buttons, as a nation, is the freedom of speech issue, especially when a Big, Evil, Nasty Corporation wants to take it away from The Little Guy. Mikey$oft might just as well adopt the slogan "We torture babies"--it could not get them too much more reviled than something of this nature.
As some of my friends have been saying...if this goes to trial, just think of the legal defense fund. Not only do sysadmins (many of whom are the strip's target audience) tend to make a fairly good income, but companies--especially Mikey$oft's competitors--will be falling all over themselves to get the positive publicity. "IBM contributes $1,000,000 to Internet Humorist's Defense Fund".
There's also the matter that this was an email--not a registered letter or other normal means by which you would think a lawyer would deliver such an ultimatum.
I'll admit, I could be wrong, and I have been before, and I'll be the first to shake my head in consternation if this is really real...but it sure smells like a hoax to me.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Why wouldn't they say which company was doing the threatening.? Sounds like a hoax to me.
Here is the letter to segfault:
Dear Mr Remnant,
We write concerning your site, SEGFAULT.ORG, which we recently visited.
While we appreciate the humor, and the backhand compliment, we have an
obligation to protect the distinctive nature of our client's trademarks.
As we are certain you can appreciate, our clients have expended
substantial time and resources in developing the considerable recognition
and goodwill associated with their names and marks.
We understand and appreciate that parody is intended, and that parody is
permitted under the trademark laws. Nevertheless, we believe that your use
of our client's trademarks on your web site is against the spirit of this
allowance.
In the interest of cooperation, we would appreciate it if you could remove
the stories containing offending remarks against our clients, or alter
them to portray our clients in a more positive light.
I will look forward to receving your reply by March 27, 1999. Thank you in
advance for your understanding of our need to protect our client's rights.
And here's the letter from http://www.jokewallpaper.com/letter1.htm:
Dear Mr. Kremer,
We write concerning your NETSCRAPE NEGOTIATOR web site, which we recently visited. While we appreciate the
humor, and the backhanded compliment, we have an obligation to protect the distinctive nature of the NETSCAPE
trademark, logo and interface. As we are certain you can appreciate, Netscape has expended substantial time and
resources in developing the considerable recognition of and goodwill associated with the NETSCAPE name and mark.
We understand and appreciate that parody is intended, and that parody is permitted under the trademark laws.
Nevertheless, we believe that your use of our logo and a similar name creates a possibility of confusion and dilutes
the distinctiveness of our marks.
In the interests of supporting humor on the Internet, but at the same time protecting our rights, we would be willing to
grant you a short-term, three month non-exclusive license to use the mark and logo, as long as you are willing to
remove the confusing materials at the end of the three month period.
I will look forward to receiving your reply by June 18, 1996. Thank you in advance for your understanding of our need
to protect our trademark rights.
Sincerely,
Mitchell Baker
Associate General Counsel
-end letter-
This solves the mystery, then, except for who the sender is.
-Chris
http://www.usinternet.com/users/c.gregerson/
www.cgstock.com
I had completely forgotten UF's references to M$ as the Evil Empire. When I saw on his site he was being served notices, and referred to the corporation as "The Evil Empire." I immediately latched on to an
article on MattsHouse that drew a cool parallel between M$/Evil Empire, Linux community/Rebellion, and FUD/Death Star in Return of the Jedi.
But he was probably just referring to his own work.
Okay, I got Linux installed. So where's the free beer everyone keeps talking about??
What would we do without the MAD magazines, the Dennis Miller/Leary Raves.... Parody and Satire are the Spice of Life (i.e REALLY Fscking Hot Spice)I have accused UF of having a mole in my organization since what they report seems to coincide with what happens at my ISP, however... DO NOT shut them down "Free the Dust Puppy"... /. So I AM kinda bitter because of my own ignorance..... Free Them All.... The Tie-Dye Ribbon Campaign !!!
I however did make an embarassing report from seg. to
-- Life: Hate the Game... Love the cereal
I'm sorry to say this, but I think the time has come for some kind of fund or program to be set up so that lawyers can be hired to defend when needed against stupid lawsuits like this. I'm not sure if the comic strips would qualify for such help, but clearly the Internet is entering a new arena with different rules than what came before.
Theoretically, this is exactly what the ACLU is for. (Anybody out there who doesn't know-- it's the American Civil Liberties Union. They are a prominent group of free speech/bill of rights supporters in the United States)
While the ACLU generally sticks to cases with a large profile, (due mostly because there are enough rights violations to protect, and also because their clients are generally not charged) something like this could easily be covered.
There is a good precedent for parody, as mentioned in some previous replies. And the precedent should be upheld. . . should comics such as Leno, Letterman, etc be sued for making jokes about the companies? I think most would agree, even among the ranks of the company doing the litigation in this case, that such a suit would be ridiculous.
What we're dealing with here is a medium issue, and the rights of this electronic medium seem no different to me than the rights granted a broadcast or print spectrum.
"My husband invented the internet, and I censored all the naughty stuff on it. .
I'm thinking that it could be aol as easily as MS, the only other person who i think it could be. both UF and SF have had comics/articles making fun of AOL. But, as i said it is just a thought, we will all just have to wait for now.
Pest
On the other hand, even if he didn't register the domain to hold it hostage, that doesn't mean that it's not worth more than $35 for the hassle of being forced to change his domain (which costs $70, anyway). The offer is fairly insulting, monetarily speaking.
There is no mechanism in the system for folks looking for Theo at theos.com to be able to easily find that he has moved once he gives up that domain name. The company who takes it over *might* provide a link, but even so Theo will lose a certain amount of traffic from people who will no longer be able to easily find him. This is a major difficulty when you, essentially, *live* at a certain address on the Net.
When I lost my old domain, I described it to my lawyer like this -- it's as if you've been forced to move away, and someone comes looking for your house and the house is gone -- there's nothing there but a hole in the ground. Not even a sign saying where you've moved to. Do not underestimate the stress that this causes.
My old domain name was shut down over a year ago and I still can't get some major sites to stop linking to the old address.
Even if he's not using the name to gain money, if this company really wants to treat him right, they should make an offer reasonable enough to make the name change less painful. Essentially they are asking him to "move" to a new home. I'm not saying that it should be megabucks, but it should be more than the mere cost of registering a new domain.
//
Tim Williams' phone number is on theo's web page, which is 925-935-1118.
However, his extension number is 214.
If you call off hours then you can leave a message in his voice mail.
hehe.
James Blachly
And, here's their address, if anyone wants to write... You can also find their fax number and various e-mail addys, too...
1777 Botelho Dr. Suite 110
Walnut Creek, CA 94596
Maybe 200+ /.'ers tried to look at it at once. :)