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Freecddb.org is up and Running
mkaiser writes "Many people complained that CDDB has changed its licence. Freecddb (Website is here) is an approach to replace CDDB in a free manner. This means that you do not need a licence to access the server, the service is - and will remain - free.
As I am using an old cddb-archive, I need submissions.
If anyone is interested in keeping up another free service,
please send submissions to freecddb-submit@freecddb.org or
configure your CDDB-aware CD-Player accordingly. "
There are numerous projects like this now. Glad to see it.
All I can say is...
Look out for the overzealous enforcers of the
violation of their 'intellectual property.'
You can bet that there will be noise from CDDB Inc.
on this. If lucky, they won't sue. If not, better
find some damned good lawyers quick. And pray the
RIAA doesn't jump into the fray.
-RISCy Business | Unix Guru, Unicent Telecom
your company here.
shelby != ford
I haven't really kept up with the situation, but what is the problem with the current cddb license? I go to their website and from what I can tell, access is always free.
Given the recent number of hupplas regarding trademarked names, it might be a wise idea to
change the name from "freecddb" to something
else. If this truely takes off, such that CDDB
starts to lose money on it, "freecddb" might
find itself in a lawsuit. (of course, IANAL).
Otherwise, full steam ahead!
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
-- A wealthy eccentric who marches to the beat of a different drum. But you may call me "Noodle Noggin."
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
The current problem is that the company that currently owns the CDDB database (yes, I know that's redundant) has declared that the contents of that database are their intellectual property and have put together a license with various terms for using their database. Access may not cost anything, but it's not _FREE_. For more details, check out a previous Slashdot story on the subject.
--Phil (#define _FREE_ free(as in speech)
355/113 -- Not the famous irrational number PI, but an incredible simulation!
I'm sick of people ripping off my music and not paying me for it.
No sig.
It FORCES all developers of software that accesses thier DB to display a logo, NOT use other sites in addition to thier own, etc...
/. for articles on CDDB
For more info, search
The Freecddb people might want to look at coordinating with the CDIndex people. For one matter, both projects look like they're aiming to accomplish the same goal. For another, CDIndex has as a stated goal, "Create GPL like license to cover the data that is inside of the CD Index. (If the GPL can't cover the data.)" I like that setup much better, as it would insure that no one could buy up the database and claim that they owned the freely submitted data and could do whatever they wanted with it.
--Phil (Besides, I think CDIndex is going with a better protocol than CDDB.)
355/113 -- Not the famous irrational number PI, but an incredible simulation!
Yes, you are. There's nothing in the CDDB archive that isn't publically available elsewhere. Apart from anything else, I have not given CDDB permission to withold information I have submitted to them, and I doubt others have, either.
If you have an existing CDDB aware application, there's nothing they can do to prevent you from accessing the archive with it, and using the information in any way you see fit.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
While I'm all for a new format, development seems to have stalled. Meanwhile, the best thing to do is support the free CDDB servers. If a new format comes along, the free CDDB data can be transferred over.
As an application author, I declined to sign Escient's license agreement. My cd-player apps ( Grip and GCD) now come configured to use freecddb.org for lookup/submission. Does anybody know if there are any other free CDDB servers?
What they need, though, is some cdindex-aware players - I haven't seen any yet. I'm going to take a look at patching some existing players to use it, but I'm a lame coder - I'm sure someone could do it in an hour as opposed to my month or two of effort. :)
Best of luck to freecddb and cdindex... I hope that one or both succeeds.
yeah and track everything you listen to and what you do. I bet you're are a proponent of NCAG. Big brother can choke on it...If u put your 'music'on the net then u have NO right to complain about people 'ripping' it off...it is PUBLIC system. As a programmer you have to overcome that problem early the WORLD is ripping of my stuff...SO WHAT
How does this thing work? The site's a little short on documentation...
Someone should make a proxy program that can allow CDDB programs to use, say, localhost, or cddbproxy.slashdot.org and it will convert CDDB requests into cdindex requests so CDDB only clients can use cdindex.
Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
SB.
I can't access their CGI script on the page, and I've configured xmcd to use cddbp://freecddb.freecddb.org:888, but requests just time out.
If the CDDB people want to play nasty, they will introduce a few subtle typographical errors, unusual capitalization, or false records into their data. If they can then show that FreeCDDB has these same errors, they've got you.
(This is an old trick used by mapmakers to catch copyright violations: they make up a few little alleyways that don't actually exist).
You'll need to make sure that people don't download data from the proprietary database and upload it to the free one.
What format are we meant to send the data in? My Brother has over 600 CDs and I would be willing to catologue them but how is each identified? The site seems a bit lacking to me.
Bravery, Kindness, Clarity, Honesty, Compassion, Generosity
...Nothing interesting here. Just move along...
Just because the database server sees that an ip is requesting info about a cd with a certain id on it, do you really think they'll know who it is actually requesting that info, or whether that person actually owns a legal cd?
Besides, cd copies, unless done with ISO imaging, won't have the same ids. Not to mention that there are different cds out there that have the same ids, too.
Get off my launchpad!
...is a GPL'd CD player that will query cddb and then update freecddb (if said server does not already have the disc on record). Who care's if CDDB doesn't like it. I never granted them permission to make proprietary the submissions that I gave them.
If there are distinctive typos in the original CDDB that get duplicated in the FreeCDDB it won't prove anything. Anybody can download from CDDB and anybody can upload to FreeCDDB. Unless FreeCDDB is doing some extremely detailed logs it will be impossible to determine which person, out of all the internet connected people on the planet, downloaded a CD entry from CDDB and uploaded it to FreeCDDB. At most FreeCDDB could be forced to remove the entry with the typos (which they'd want to do anyway)
It would not suprise me if RIAA sues the CDDB.com folks either way. After all, CDDB's whole business model seems to be based upon their "ownership" of a database of information which is copyrighted by RIAA members. You better bet that the names of the bands, and the title of the albums in that database is the intellectual property of RIAA members. It's possible that they would ignore a free, non-commercial database. But I can't imagine that they would let CDDB off the hook.
My bet is that CDDB is currently being sued, and isn't advertising the fact. Or that the RIAA's lawers haven't heard about CDDB yet. Maybe we should all send them email and "remind" them that there is a company out there whose entire business model is distributing their "IP". After all, CDDB seems to be out to destroy the competition. Well, two can play at that game!
Now there are only a couple of mails transported via the list. What does this tell?
The interest in this thing is probably still very high, but after the initial hot debate, where everyone stated their more or less funny ideas, the debate has now cooled down to the people who simply code something. I say something, because there was no idea that was officially tagged as masterplan (who should have done this blessing anyway?).
So I guess that we will see more code and more cdindex-enabled players, when those coders have fooled around enough with some of the ideas (the DNA one was cute, by the way).
OK, but still, if CDindex is already off the ground, why start a new freecddb service? Work TOGETHER guys! Don't unnecessarily fragment things even further.
It doesn't matter if they know who uploaded the info, freecddb would be shut down quicker than you can blink. Laywers and companies are seldom interested in facts...
...Lawyers don't like facts either (oops :)
The freecddb server uses the CDDB protocol, which has a lot of disc data for it, and is widely supported in many apps.
OK lets all submit correct into to freecddb. And lets all use commercialized cddb for a while and when it pops up popular cdroms, say no thats not the one I have and add some bullshit entry...wont that be a fun way to get back at them for taking our submissions and making them their property???
What this will do is everytime someone pulls up a popular cdrom and are connected to cddb, it will have to ask which of a list of cdroms you have...it will be irritating enough for people to abandon their service eventually.
That way freedcddb will be the only accurate one in addition to the free one.
Randal
In that case we should all use CPM or MSDOS...it existed before what we have now
Wow you're so smart
Yeah, that's not a compelling argument. ("simply because existing tech exists").
This is a tricky situation, though. If the cdindex people put up a proxy to convert cddb requests, they could get sued big time. It doesn't mean they'd loose, it just means they'd get shut down.
Life's full of risks.
I thought /. was beeing moderated...
The main reason that I see to re-invent CDDB is to improve on it. CDDB has been stuck in the same form for two or more years.
The database quality at CDDB is not great. It ould be a lot better. Because different pressings have different IDs there is a ton of duplication in CDDB. Ever try to stamp out some typos or poor quality entries in CDDB? Try searching for a popular CD in cddb and see how many different versions of the same entry come back.
Can't we cooperate on coming up with something newer and better that addresses the needs we have today instead of the needs of 3 or 4 years ago?
I think it would be best if:
- Some serious thought was given to the database design and requirements. It's time to think of a slightly different problem -- what would help the people who use both MP3's and CD's? What about devices such as the empeg, the rio, cd megachangers like the ones from Sony.
- I for one would like to tie my MP3's to the CD's that they came from so I always had all of the details available. Which version of this song is this? What year was this recorded? What other artists are on this track?
- There is a lot of data available at the sites that sell CDs. They often have the UPC code of the CD which could be used to help tie different
databases together.
- While it presents a different set of copyright info if you have the UPC id you can often get things like the cover art off the CD selling sites. Because of copyrights you wouldn't want to store it in the CD database but a local user might want to choose to store the image.
- Same thing for lyrics. A consolidated database that had all of the lyrics might cause copyright trouble but what if you had the option to add it to your own database?
- CDIndex should have a cddb interface for existing players to be able to use it. There is no better code than the code that is already out there.
- We need a proxy server existed that could help populate the new database from the old CDDB db.
- See http://www.nirvis.com/ for an example app that controls Sony CD megachangers and integrates MP3's. (I have no affiliation with Nirvis.)
Being sued? No. Lawsuit filings are a matter of public record, and the RIAA is being watched pretty closely by the tech news outlets. Sent threatening letters? Quite possible.
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
If I recall correctly CDIndex uses a different
algorithm for calculating the (hopefully (not!))
unique DiscID. Supposedly CDIndex's method is
better -- less lossy. This would make a proxy
virtually impossible to create.
So why do I say not in the above paragraph?
Well I've got some Kraftwerk CD's in both
german and english. These have exactly the same
track layout, giving them identical discids.
I'd like an algorithm that also samples a few
msec's of audio in certain places, to prevent
this.
The trouble with that is that CDDB and freecddb use different methods for mangling the track length info into a UID for the CD. Thus, you'd also have to have a huge database mapping each scheme's IDs to the other scheme's. And if you're going to do that, you somehow already have access to the original CDs, so you might as well upload the track names at that point too.
If I were CDDB inc., I'd start spiking my database with intentional errors so I could prove people had copied stuff out of it. Punctuation, extra spaces, capitalization, etc.
If your MP3s were legal, you would know the answers to these questions. If you are violating copyrights, you would not.
Isn't "CDDB" a pretty generic acronym? "FreeCompactDiscDataBase" just doesn't have the same ring to it :)
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
well.. yeah.. except with free beer they don't usually make you tatoo the beer company's logo on your forehead or tell you that you can't drink any other beer if you drink theirs.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
The database contains the titles and track listings for thousands of Audio CDs. If you have a cddb-aware audio cd player, you can fire it up, stick a new CD into your drive, and have the player query a cddb server to get the title & track listings, and save them on your own computer. CDs are identified by embedded serial numbers which are read by the CD drive. If your CD isn't in the cddb database you can submit the trakc listing for inclusion.
there are no secret codes, the cddb protocol uses a hash of the index of track lengths.
Did you mount a military-grade, variable-focus MASER on an unlicensed artificial intelligence?
Mike
--
Mike
--
"Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yër?"
Obvious Troll.
Yeah, I know how the client part of it works... but I've already got cddb-formatted info for all of my CDs, and I'm not sure how to submit it... Do I just email my .cdtooldb to them?
Don't look at the previos story. It was scewd and many people just wrote a bunch of crap. If you read the license, you will know first hand
Troy Roberts
Yeah, dictionaries, thesaurii and other large reference works are all known to do this sort of thing. Although it's fscking hard to find the magic word!
I'd say just add in a couple of completely fake cds. They'd be lost in all the data but easily trackable.
I am curious though, as to whether or not CDDB should be allowed to do this. Isn't a list like that the sort of thing that would fall under the ruling that prevents phone books and many other databases from being copyrightable?
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
I have written a client that can read CDDB info as well as CDIndex info. Also, it can generate data files containing the info you need to put a CD in the CDIndex. e-mail me via the link at the page I mention below for the secret key :-)
Point to my 'Audio utilities for the blind' to find the latest executable.
It's called PlayCD (duh!).
I'm sorry, I didn't update the source yet (I just had enough time to compile and upload...)
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
wonderful idea, but can all cdrom drives read audio data off the cd? and in the same format? and what effect would small scratches on the cd have?
US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
> Yeah, that's not a compelling argument. ("simply
> because existing tech exists").
The fact that there is an existing base of thousands of users already using a technology that works is not a compelling argument? Not to mention that a large part of the work is already done. I for one don't want to be constantly forced to change from a technology that's working.
This is not an argument against new formats, just saying that keeping old ones working is important. A better analogy than sticking with MS-DOS would be maintaining the ability to read MS-DOS disks.
New clients can support both formats, but till then proxies would be good.
"I believe that the cult of the particular brings only death - for it bases order on likeness." St.-Exupery
>And lets all use commercialized cddb for a while and when it pops up popular cdroms, say no thats not the one I have and add some bullshit entry...wont that be a fun way to get back at them for taking our submissions and
making them their property???
Are you a troll, or just one of those script kiddies? Either was you're an ass for suggesting this.
Isn't Slashdot moderating here? What this person is proposing reflects badly on us all, especially since the comment is almost 24 hours old and still
at "0"... and what he suggests is probably illegal (not to mention just plain stupid).
Let the success of completely free and open alternatives be "lesson enough" for cddb.com.
It WOULD be nice if we could somehow convince OEM's like Apple and Compaq, to support freecddb. The AppleCD Player is lame - better than what comes with Windows, but not by much... could definately use an update here..
There's probably some license clause that says Compaq can't bundle a better CD player because it "competes" with Windows98 (or the PlusPack)...
The RIAA can't sue the CDDB for compiling a database of titles, etc.
CDDB does own its database, as per current copyright law... you can own a database without owning the individual data within it. The collection is yours. If someone else is able to assemble a similar database, oh well.
Posted by TMouse:
probably reconsidering what they wrote in it..
"Terms of use will be posted shortly."
thats it.
nuff said
:-)
Or... Seedy Deeby
How does it "FORCE" developers to do anything?
What are they going to do if you use their database and don't display their logo? Answer: PROBABLY NOTHING.