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George Lucas Interview
Stepto writes "Time
Magazine has an interesting interview with George "I am myth" Lucas. The topic is the power of myth and sort of an analyzation by Bill Moyers as to the whole global story of the (what will be) six movies. "
Is that like an analysis, only longer?
anal-yzation? Is that urinalysis?
And of course why the story is so compelling!
As much as I like Star Wars, I disagree with
Lucas on the subject of God. I am a strong
agnostic, weak atheist. Most probably, there is
no God. There might be entities that can perform
"superhuman" deeds but that could be due to a
different evolution or advanced technology. (example: is flying a superhuman deed? are birds god? humans cant fly but they have the technology to fly. does that make us god?)
But Star Wars seems to have influences of Hindu philosophy in it. (Luke going to the "dangerous forest" to search out his teacher, Luke cremating Darth Vader as opposed to burying him etc.)
ah well my $0.02
If you use a looking glass at the very bottom of the page, you'll find that the interview consists of 4 pages and is not a brief 1 page interview.
BTW, why does time have such an ugly URL instead of a clean www.time.com/blah ?
A lot of the "mythic" / Cambellian element of _Star Wars_ was grafted on after the fact, made up as they went along, spun.
In another recent interview (linked to from Slashdot, sorry for forgetting the venue) Lucas suggests we'd be better off with a philosopher king and ditching democracy. Can't trust those plebes.
Up yours, George. I'd rather read some real science fiction.
Nonsense! I was an aware teenager at the time. The hype was big, if not as savvy and all-encompassing as it is today. There were lots of good reviews (Gene Shalit on NBC; Joe Glemis for Newsday). There were a lot of commercials. There were big lush posters, and TV coverage of lines wrapping around the block and interviews with stars & etc. They gave out buttons at the premiere.
Nevertheless, I agree that the fact that people liked it was a big factor. Well promoted movies still flop if they stink.
This rocks!
Old trailer: 480x216 pixels, 22 kHz stereo.
New trailer: 640x288 pixels, 44 kHz stereo
File size: unchanged!
Requires QuickTime 4.0.
Download both at apple.com/quicktime.
...you are insisting that you must have "facts" and "proofs" in order to believe in something.
This in itself is a faith, because it assumes that the same criteria that applies to science must also apply to questions of spirituality, which misses the point that spirituality/religion or whatever you want to call it does not work that way at all.
Anyway, I've always thought that this "weak atheism" copout was called agnosticism, not atheism. But don't lets get into an argument about definition of terms again.
Many of the comments that George Lucas made are very similar to those made by current day Pagan revivalists. What surprises me is the lack of commentary on and about paganism here on Slashdot...Pagans tend to make up a large percentage of the Computer populace. Many well-know people involved with computer that make you think (FSF, Open Source, MIT Media Lab, etc.) are either Pagan or Pagan sympathetic.
ttyl
Farrell J. McGovern
Chronicler, Ár nDraíocht Féin: A Druid Fellowship
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
I go through all four pages, click the back button, and what do I get? A popup that urges me to buy Time. So I close it and click back again, and what do I get? Another popup that urges me to buy Time. So I close it and click back again ...
Grr... The suits that request this kind of crap should be required to wade through it every day.
Ordinarily, popups don't bother me *that* much (though they do kinda tick me off), but when sites set up popups to only appear when someone LEAVES a page on your site, that just kinda pisses me off. They're just trying to get one final advertisement in because you're leaving their site, and that's lame.
While we laud Lucas' vision, and the uber-coolness of all things Star Wars, let us not forget the
massive campaign of media manipulation and promotion behind Star Wars, in itself an achievement of technical perfection. Lucas may be a cinematic visionary, but he is also a shrewd marketer and memetic engineer.
Aside from Hero With A Thousand Faces (one of Campbell's books on myth which was an strong influence on Lucas),
This itself is mostly a myth created by Lucas. When Star Wars came out, he repeatedly spoke about his influences and never mentioned Campbell. He retroactively declared him an influence years later.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Let me recommend one of my favorite books, The Writer's Journey, a fantastic guide to understanding movies through an interpretation of The Hero With A Thousand Faces. I also found it far more readable than Campbell's book, which is dense with great mythological examples. If you don't read The Hero With A Thousand Faces, at least read The Writer's Journey. It's a terrific real-world introduction to the relevance of Joseph Campbell and the power of mythology.
Joseph Campbell would argue that the themes in the plot are thousands of years older than Freud and appear in most of the ancient myths: the hero's journey, the son overthrowing the father, etc.
What Lucas did with Star Wars is to read Joseph Campbell to find out what themes are in common to all the great myths, and then use that formula to design the plot, effectively creating a new mythology. Lucas has pretty much admitted this. Tolkein did essentially the same thing with Lord of the Rings (not by reading Campbell, but by doing the same kind of research as Campbell): he was a scholar who had studied all of the old Norse and Celtic stories and used them to construct his own mythology.
Folks who want to know more should read Campbell's The Hero With a Thousand Faces.
and on page 4, Lucas mentions that the "There are always two, a master and an apprentice" applies to the *bad* jedi, because if there were more they'd kill each other. Fascinating.
Three Step Plan:
1. Take over the world.
2. Get a lot of cookies.
3. Eat the cookies.
It depends on your definition of atheist.
There are "strong atheists" who make the positive assertion that there is no God. I can see how this would be somewhat similar to faith.
Many people, however, (myself included) are "weak atheists" who simply think there is no evidence for God, but would certainly be willing to believe in His existence if it were undeniably demonstrated (i.e. proved). I don't think this category of people can be considered to have "faith" in atheism.
That would not be faith.. merely pragmatism.
Without evidence, there would be no reason to believe anything. Since none of the supernatural claims of any religion have been proven, why should I choose any particular one over another? Only with some evidence of some sort can I decide.
As to naming, yes, "weak atheism" is commonly known as "agnosticism", but that is a misnomer. Strictly speaking, an agnostic is someone who thinks the existence of God is not only unknown, but UNKNOWABLE.
Aside from Hero With A Thousand Faces (one of Campbell's books on myth which was an strong influence on Lucas), there is also The Writer's Journey which is a less-technical interpretation of Joseph Campbell applied to writing. The author breaks down Campbell's theories and applies it to film structure. (I just saw the author speak at a Barnes & Noble in Burbank last week)...
And also check out Bill Moyer's PBS interviews with Joseph Campbell himself, which you'll find at many video stores, usually in the documentary sections. They talk about many of the themes and stories that appear again and again across cultures... I believe the series was called The Power of Myth.
W
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This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
...these myths are archetypical and reasonate so well. Somebody metioned Freudianism... heck, myths were therapy before anyone invented analysis.
Especially for boys in patriarchal societies, your father figure is your whole world, teacher, father, mentor and confidante all rolled into one. And then one day you grow up enough to see your father's flaws, and to see him as competition. It's no wonder that the 'heroic son finds put that his daddy is the paragon of evil' angle plays so well.
These archetypes are not only ancient, but repeat every time a new generation is born.
I think it's pretty clearly stated that Lucas' personal belief is that God exists. I didn't see it in there that he was stating it flatly as a truth, or that he was looking for converts to show up at the Skywalker Ranch.
Religious beliefs fall on a spectrum from fanatacism to atheism... people have a perfect right to be on that scale anywhere they please.
If you enjoy this sort of look at the paradigms and deeper meaning behind many of the world's myths and philosophies/religions, I would suggest the book 'The Power of Myth', which is done in interview style between Bill Moyers, and an expert in such matters, Joseph Campbell.
BTW, Lucas and Campbell worked together quite a bit when George was writing the story for Star Wars originally back in the 70's.
P.S. If the link to the book on Amazon doesn't work, forgive me... for some reason /. is being less than kind with the href.
I'm not sure the impact that these biases really had on the interview, though I suspect that's the reason for much of the theological aspect of it. I personally found the exchange between the two very intriguing.
I think that Moyers has always embraced SW as more than a cult phenomenon. It's "followers" gain something, which is apparently healthy, that had been previously missing from their lives. That much is clear as the intent of Lucas. And Moyers' denomination seems to have no interaction with his feelings (that I can recognize at least. I am from a highly SoBaptist area.) whereas his need for spirituality does appear more relevant to the conversation.
ALL HAIL BRAK!!!
One of the questions Moyers asks seems almost too good for Lucas.
He, in fact, sets up Lucas to be a modern Jesus in a way. Except that Lucas realizes he isn't Son of God, just able to exercise God-like powers, George could have easily answered, "Isn't that the way Jesus taught about heaven and the way to get there?"
Overall, I have always agreed with Moyers interpretation that SW was simply a method of giving religion to our culture. And considering that it has become nearly as fanatic as many religions, it's a wonder Lucas doesn't have a bigger ego.
ALL HAIL BRAK!!!
Bite the hand.
If the Force is everywhere, in everything... (or even a subset of things/people) well, that can easily be a non-monotheistic concept. Animistic even. Paganism is not far-fetched under such a concept.
IMHO, Lucas is trying to display the POWER of religious ideas without tying them to a particular belief system.
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The Internet is the Suppository of All Knowledge. You get it in the end.
I mean, how are they going to kill all the jedi ? It would have been cool if the Sith were as large a group as the jedi , led by vader at the end of the prequels.
...
Oh well, at least Darth Maul is cool. I'm hoping there's more to Darth Sidious than the obvious
- sigs are for wimps.
In your haste to criticize, don't forget that the original Star Wars had only a very mild advertising campaign behind it, and almost universally got bad reviews from the critics.
Star Wars is a success because the people -like- Star Wars ; the advertising campaigns of the sequels are de rigeur for any 'Hollywood Blockbuster Movie.'
Besides that, a good trailer is almost a work of art in itself. A bad one is as painful as any hardsell salesman in your face. Lucasfilms (I don't know how much Lucas himself has to do with it) makes good trailers, IMO.
--Parity
--Parity
'Card carrying' member of the EFF.
I don't know; Lucas certainly has some of that spirit, trying to revive spirtuality and myth, but spirituality and myth are just as important to the monotheistic religions, even if not all of their practioners admit to it. To me, while the Star Wars saga is a grand myth/story, it is heavily laced with monotheistic conceptions. It's easily multireligious... the Force could be god, allah, the holy spirit, the universal soul, the buddha nature. It doesn't very well make a pantheon though.
You could look at the heroes of the stories -as- the gods, that would be very in keeping with the Celtic blurring of where 'hero' ends and 'god' begins, but I think that Star Wars has much more in common with the hero-myths than the god-myths. So, in context, Luke & company are mere mortals who's great courage/goodness/striving allows them to succeed at more-than-mortal tasks, with the aid of 'the Force' (which I read much as Faith in God).
Anyway. As far as modern story/myths go, I think Charles deLint has more to offer the pagan community than George Lucas.
--Parity
--Parity
'Card carrying' member of the EFF.
I doubt that Moyers' intention was to set up Lucas as a modern day Jesus...keep in mind that Moyers is an ordained Southern Baptist minister (a rather moderate one from what I can tell...not the "Religious Right" that has taken over the Southern Baptist Convention).
With that context in mind, (and with my bias of being a Southern Baptist myself in mind as well), I truly found this interview interesting. I'm not sure the impact that these biases really had on the interview, though I suspect that's the reason for much of the theological aspect of it. I personally found the exchange between the two very intriguing.
Jeff
I think Lucas actually addresses this somewhat...the SW trilogies were not intended to represent any one religion, but a sort of blurring of all religions (sp?) together. Lucas even commented in the interview about how, when the first SW movie came out, practitioners of nearly all faiths pointed out the similarities between the SW theology/cosmology, and that of their own faith. Lucas and Moyers both made points of SW using myths that were largely common between most all faith traditions. For example, Moyers pointed out Luke being tempted by his father as being analogous to Jesus being tempted by the devil in his 40 day wilderness excursion after his baptism, and Lucas responded with a similar myth from the Bhuddist (sp?) tradition.
I suspect, that you finding similarities between Lucas' statements and Pagan revivalists, that you have some connection with such? practitioner, or familiarity with that tradition? (not an accusation in any way, curious as much as anything)
Jeff
Hey, but the cool thing is that in conjunction with the Star Wars theme, we see the Emperor on the cover of Time.
There's also a reason that Freud named several complexes after Greek mythical characters, vide "Oedipus Complex." The reason those stories have lasted is that they describe experiences many of us go through, if only emotionally. That's also why the characters are "archetypes." They are our interiors, lived out in real life. Oedipus is the part of us that hates our fathers, and is confused by that, embodied in a tragic character. Luke Skywalker is our heroic but childish side, lived out on the screen. (For a good analysis of some of the issues of age, check out Iron John by Robert Bly. Really good analysis of what people, especially men, go through on the road to maturity.
Actually, people can be fanatically atheist-atheism is a faith that there is no god. I think it's more that you can go from fanatic to completely laid back about religion.
It was early, I had not had my Dr. Pepper yet.
:>
http://www.stepto.com
Stupid popups.
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Maybe a bit off topic but apparently they've released a new version of the "A" trailer in widescreen format. Least that's what I've heard, gotta wait till I get to the office to check it out on the T1.
s ode-i/trailer3_0.html
Here's the URL:
http://www.apple.com/quicktime/trailers/fox/epi
I love the entire series. But does it really encourage Creativity, or does the Star Wars series, like most movies and TV programs today, simply numb the viewer's mind and encourage us to sit and be entertained?
One of my favorite modern myth-tellers is Neil Gaiman of the Sandman graphic novel/comic book world. Somehow, Gaiman's work seems to challenge readers - whether casual or die-hard Sandman fans - to widen out and re-examine the original sources. But of all the people that have seen any of the Star Wars movies, very few are willing or able to discuss its religious or literary allusions. Most just want to sit and watch a "good" movie!
Lucas one of the best at what he does, but is what he does really in the best interests of the public?
(I will be pondering these thoughts while standing in line on the 19th.)
If you're looking for the noun form of "analyze," it would be "analysis."
M. Erman a.k.a. AIRMAN