Slashdot Mirror
Dan Gillmor on Slashdot
Normally I reserve stories about Slashdot to the quickies
bin, but this article is getting submitted so many times that
if I don't post it, I'll spend the rest of the day deleting
it from the submissions box. Bill Longabaugh
wrote in to send us a piece by Dan Gillmor over at the
San Jose Mercury News about Slashdot.
It's a nice little 'Slashdot as a weblog' piece apparently
designed to stroke my ego. Update: 05/25 03:42 by CT : I've begun rewriting
the Moderator Guidelines,
so if you're interested, please check them out and submit comments
(or diffs :)
Can't we find a better name than that? A "weblog" to me brings to mind "log files produced by a web server"
Dan Gillmor is actually a pretty cool guy with a thick cluebook.
/. article is a good example of his writing style.
/. format benefited him.
/. account. But I set it up on another computer and I have no idea what it is. It would be nice if there was a choice to post as AC or LL. Give the moderators the ability to reclassify a person.
I met him about three years ago during a open house at the ISP where I worked. Another tech support slave recognized him and drug me over to meet the guy. I respect Peter (my fellow former slave) a lot. If he was impressed then I was prepared to be impressed too.
I was. Since then I have kept an eye on his writing. He is generally right on.
The
A good hook (Before I mentioned the site's name, another person at the table said, correctly...)
A clear introduction that gives perspective (Most people will have little reason to stop by Slashdot... For the people who care, though, it's a must-visit place)
Then the content.
He is good at picking out the gems. Mentioning the online bandwidth article, which I thought was one of the most interesting recent posts. And he explained how the
Even his analysis was fair and even handed.
I have a low (accurate?) opinion of reporters. I tend to lump them in with politicians, lawyers, and teachers. People who choose to observe and comment rather than living life for themselves.
Gillmor is one of the exceptions.
Dan mailto:dan@happynet.com Wright
PS I'm not an Anonymous Coward, I'm a Lazy Luser. I even have a
I really think that in a way, Rob is a kind of visionary, because sites like Slashdot and Everything are among the first to really use the web _as_ the web, taking full(?) advantage of its capabilities, and not simply as a kind of magazine printed with electrons. Hence the buzz.
How about a "User Opinion" section (where average joes could submit *their* long-winded, self-sevring articles? :)
Posted by Mike@ABC:
Perhaps in larger cities this isn't true, but in Smalltown, USA, reporters don't do a lot of reporting.
Ouch. As someone who cut his teeth on the smallest daily newspaper in upstate New York (circulation 4,000), I can safely say that reporters in small towns do even more reporting than their big-city counterparts. I remember one fateful day of sitting in on a town meeting, two school board meetings and a kindergarten graduation. Then I went to a fire in another county at 11 p.m. and didn't get back until 4 a.m.
You're right about the AP, though. The wires are extremely convenient, especially for small to mid-size papers, and even my own Web site. But I wish there were alternatives. The Online Journalism Review has a good story on AP wire useage this week.
Posted by Mike@ABC:
I thought Dan's article was a good one. As a tech media type, I lurk on Slashdot often, because Rob and Hemos do a good job of getting a whole bunch of relevant info in one place. And the comments are good too, because you guys can smell BS a mile away, and it helps me sniff it out, too.
Is Slashdot journalism? Depends on how you define it. But I do think it hearkens back to the first days of publishing, before corporations took over -- when anyone with access to a printing press could change the way people thought about the issues in their lives. The founding fathers wrote the First Amendment for sites like this one.
And Rob...it was a nice column. Smile, take the compliment, and move on!
This is maybe the best idea I've heard on /. in a long time. Every day, essays should be stockpiled and then released in a separate section for viewing by the moderators and votes cast. The top (insert small integer here) should be posted to the main page for all to see. What better way to serve our community than to let it include the information we feel is of most interest. Besides, this would help move /. toward a "bazaar" model for news/opinion.
_damnit_
It's my job to freeze you. -- Logan's Run
This article was basically complimentary toward's /. and Mr. Malta in particular. I also agree with the author's assessment that /. is a shadow of the media's future. It would reflect better on this site if Mr. Malta didn't belittle such pieces in the name of modesty. Perhaps labeling such articles neutrally like "Here's something about Slashdot" would be more palatable than calling "[a] piece apparently designed to stroke my ego".
People like to praise what they find enjoyable. They should not be punished for doing so.
Hi, Logan.
I first started reading slashdot about 18 months ago. I was first pointed to it by a friend of mine who said he read it almost every day. I thought it was too nerdy for me at first, but i read it about once a week. Eventually I discovered the conversations, and became an avid reader. It wasn't long until I was posting AC posts on an almost daily basis. When Rob began making the moderation and preference changes to slashdot, i decided it was time to create an account. Now, I access slashdot a dozen times a day from work, despite the lack of images. Slashdot is the first web page I check in the morning, and the last one i read at night. I get 90% of my news from slashdot. My coworkers and I talk about the articles over lunch. I am truly a slashdot addict, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Speaking about navel gazing, there was a poll that surveyed (as a joke) how many times one cleaned out his/her/it navel: daily, weekly, monthly, never?
Navels are the point where the lifeblood to a new entity is sourced. So I guess this term would come from the fact that some navels never have the fuzz cleaned out of them. Or more concisely, that it would be a topic that is raw, inclomplete, and kind of undeveloped. On the other hand, why would shiny rings adorning the navel be attractive?
Oh hell, I don't know. Someone help me attempt to understand this term. Perhaps navel gazing is a cliche. A passing fad, but with tshirts and summertime, maybe not.
You can post an essay to the comments section as long as it is related to the topic at hand.
People have submitted essays to The Taco In Charge and if he thinks they are good enough, he will post them on the main page.
I suppose what you are looking for is a way to post essays that will get posted somewhere (like a new slashbox) with no editorial judgement to initial suitability. It could be useful, but it would need moderation as to how well it was written, as well as moderation of the comments.
Your password has expired, please login to change it.
I disagree that /. has "sold its soul" to advertisers. I don't agree that because /. uses ads, its soul is sold. If /. only posts stories to satisfy its advertisers, then it has "sold out".
/. has sold its soul.
The fact that ads are displayed does not mean
Your password has expired, please login to change it.
No hints necessary, though I am a "Latin". I have an M.A. and M.Div., church history and spirituality.
"Navel-gazing" comes from the controversy over the "physical technique" of hesychasm. It is to be prayer of the heart and of the mind, and to that end, Ps.-Symeon recommends sitting with chin on chest and with eyes fixed on the navel. Others suggest that the inner or outer "gaze" be focused on the heart.
I read /. for 2 days with threshhold set at -1, and I must say that the moderators are doing an excellent job.
I find the editorial comments (reasons for moderating a post up or down) annoying and distracting. If the powers that be want moderators to think before changing a post's point value, OK, but I would prefer that the moderator's stated reason not be part of the display to other readers.
I also notice that you don't say explicitly in the new guidelines which kinds of posts deserve a 3, 4, or 5. Oops. Even general examples would help. What distinguishes a "4" from a "3"?
Could wide dissemination of this article lead to....the Slashdotting of Slashdot?!?
Absolutely. This would be great, users would submit their opinions for an opinion page. Like the polls, CmdrTaco, Hemos, and crowd could come up with the topics. Users would submit their essays to a 'box.' Moderators could use their moderator points to 'grade' the essays. Only the highest few essays would get seen by the larger community (only moderators would see all the essays).
We could even have a 'response' section from Rob an Co. just like they do in the "real" opinion sections...
This is quite offtopic, but anyway, I just thought of it when reading about quickies...
Why not gather all quickies, as done with the Ask Slashdot, under a special menu, so that they are viewable all together? And add a config-item to disable all quickies (If you just want to read larger stories)? Oh, that last is allready possible... Sorry.
--The knowledge that you are an idiot, is what distinguishes you from one.
Comments to stories are not unique to slashdot, but they're done much better here. I can imagine if this were a Hanson or Raiders site (we can dream, can't we ;-), there would be a lot fewere good comments, becuase the people who are good at tech are necessarily drawn onto the Internet and to places like Slashdot, but other interest groups haven't reached Internet critical-mass yet.
Other websites have comments, but they quite often get filtered through an editor first. Slashdot's anonymous posting (as much as it can be annoying) and moderation have been very helpful in promoting real discussion (the latter especially)
Perfect time for segue into moderation FAQ discussion:
No mention of maintaining anonymity when you're a moderator, unless I missed that part. Does that mean that this requirement is now waived (which would make sense now that you're a moderator until you spend your 5 points)?
I've heard Slashdot called a form of journalism, which seems a bit of a stretch apart from its homegrown essays. But I'm not willing to say it isn't journalism, either.
/. (and possible other weblogs) is doing the same thing using a the Internet as its medium.
/. addiction level running quite high, I can imagine any number of people willing to produce original content. "Watch out Jon. Your monopoly may not hold out for long ;-)"
Again, the AP is relevant here as well -- most of the news in the local paper, especially the 'front page' is pulled from the AP, and the local reporters do little. Perhaps in larger cities this isn't true, but in Smalltown, USA, reporters don't do a lot of reporting.
My Comments:
This is a valid point. I don't think journalism can be defined by the production of content. While the production of content (writing) constitutes one mode of journalism, the reproduction of content (as in the wire services) is another. The Utne Reader is a good example of reproducing content from numerous sources and making it available in one forum.
I would argue that journalism is better defined by the content itself, i.e. current events, news, human interest, etc., rather than who produced it.
However, it would be nice to see more 'original content' on Slashdot though, if only to avoid giving Jon Katz a monopoly.
The possibilities are endless. With the
Sean Brown
Sean Brown
Linux Evangelist
"I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours." - Bob D.
more about: I've heard Slashdot called a form of journalism, which seems a bit of a stretch apart from its homegrown essays. But I'm not willing to say it isn't journalism, either.
A few points:
--The more you know, the less you know.
Well, I used to update 10 or 20 times a day to check for new stories. But when I installed RedHat 6.0, it came with the wonder of wonders that is SlashApp, the GNOME panel-mounted slashdot story ticker. Now whenever I check what time it is or the system load, a /. article title is sitting there waiting to be clicked on. What a great feeling! It also came in really handy when Slashdot was unavailable for a few hours the other day -- it would poll for me instead of me having to stop what I was doing and try the reload button again every 45 seconds.
I read it for the articles combined with the comments. I find it so much more informative to read the opinion of dozens of smart (and not so smart) people who know what they are talking about (most of the time anyway), than it is to read the opinion of a single reporter. If I want to know the BS level of a particular story, I just check the comments and it soon becomes clear if the journalist who wrote the story knew what he was talking about or if he was just quoting from AP, Reuters, CNN or an MS sales brochure.
:-)
Apart from that, it's also a great way to waste time at work
superblog.org: all your favourite blogs on o
Slashdot almost addictive for those who care
/. habbit, but a few days ago when I couldn't reach the site, I caught myself trying to reach it every half hour or so. I wonder how many other people here update at least ten times a day to check for new stories. Maybe it's time I joined /.-ers Anonymous...
Almost ? I thought I controlled my
superblog.org: all your favourite blogs on o
Now please don't think I am trying to put Slashdot down in any way. But I don't think it's journalism in the true sense of the word. It still depends about 99% on the work of others. Reporters do most of their own work.
-----BEGIN ANNOYING SIG BLOCK-----
Evan
rooooar
We tell you what the news is from our perspective; you buy it or you don't. Tomorrow's Web-enhanced journalism will include a conversation. That means new challenges for consumers of information, not just producers. We're all just beginning to figure this out, to learn our roles. Slashdot is one of our instructors.
;-) (probably the later)
Well, this is certainly a welcome sentiment. Awareness in the mass media that not everything they throw at the public is bought, that people are becoming aware of the inaccuracies of what they hear, read, and see.
hmm, either that, or he's blowing smoke up our ass
I'd want the mechanism to be slightly different myself: give 5 mod points and x opinion points, where the opinion points could be used to either write and submit (to the voters only) a piece, or to vote on the pieces to get them submitted on the main page.
If it took, say, 3 opinion points to submit a piece, and 10 opinion votes to 'push' it to the front page, that should be enough to prevent abuse, and by not sucking the mod points directly wouldn't harm the current system, IMHO.
Interesting article, ego stroking or no.
:)
Some impressions:
For the people who care, though, it's a must-visit place, almost addictive in its drawing power. And in the process Slashdot has become an archetype of the Internet-led communication revolution.
This is an important point, but doesn't go far enough. Slashdot is constantly improving, especially with the feedback from users. It feels more like Usenet (Usenet of about five years ago -- today's Usenet is much noiser, but that's another topic...) than a 'weblog,' 'portal,' or whatever neologism is being hyped.
[Weblogs] are the model of convenience: digests that take you directly to the original, expanded material if you care to learn more.
I often get "look at this" emails where friends of mine try to keep me informed on interesting things. Sadly, most of them tend to be of the urban legends I heard of three years ago, and/or even older 'joke lists'. The only ones that catch my attention are articles culled from one weblog or another, and usually I've already seen them here on Slashdot or Memepool, etc.
Reporting in newspapers today is usually not much more than copying things from the Associated Press (AP). As such, the dozen or so newspapers I could look at in a day are generally useless, as 90 percent of the info in one is duplicated in another. Weblogs are the closest thing to the AP the web has, but because there is no one standard yet it is still worthwhile to visit many sites, especially when they focus on one area or genre.
readers can set up the forums to show the most relevant -- or, if they prefer, the newest or oldest -- comments first.
Half the fun is configuring Slashdot to our will. We're a bunch of feature junkies.
I've heard Slashdot called a form of journalism, which seems a bit of a stretch apart from its homegrown essays. But I'm not willing to say it isn't journalism, either.
Again, the AP is relevant here as well -- most of the news in the local paper, especially the 'front page' is pulled from the AP, and the local reporters do little. Perhaps in larger cities this isn't true, but in Smalltown, USA, reporters don't do a lot of reporting.
However, it would be nice to see more 'original content' on Slashdot though, if only to avoid giving Jon Katz a monopoly.
Just like the Sun ads....
/. I was amazed, then I used it for a bit, got really high, and now I'm a junkie.
/. for doctors (pinprick.org or thiswonthurt.com), the community would build quickly.
The first time I found
Power to the people. Reporting to the people. Moderating to the people. Flames to the people. Adminning to the admin.
Very few stories fall through the cracks and if I think they do...I submit them. Some places this model could go would be stuff like giving free cd's or software to submitters (replacing reporters). It isn't needed here, but building a following (bootstrapping for this type of site) is the more difficult step, you need consistent content and if it comes from surfers you have to give them a reason. You give them a good reason and you have next years hottest IPO. The community feel is also a big part, but I think if there was, say, a
I've called this type of site Nanomedia resoning that one) it is really small when compared to mass media, two) it's usually operated my one, two, or ten people (one-billionth the pop. of the planet), and three) it sounds cool and we're moving into the nano- age anyway.
12.5% of a quarter for you, mine that is
+&x
IMHO, forums like slashdot are BETTER than journalism:
1) They allow relatively unfiltered feedback from the readers (vs. a few select letters that make it to the OpEd section of the newspaper).
2) There is no pretense that slashdot is unbiased. To me, this is preferable to supposedly unbiased journalism that subtlely reflects the journalist's own opinions. Selective reporting and coloring of facts is more insidious than simply saying, "Hey, we like *BSD and Linux around here."
3) Generally, the people delivering and commenting on the information know what they are talking about. In the slashdot forum, disinformation and marketing BS are usually caught quickly. More than once, slashdot posters have pointed out inaccurate and misleading info that most journalists would miss (*cough* *Mindcraft* *cough*).
Yes, there is a fair amount of noise, flamage, and immaturity. That comes with having an open forum. I'll take that over polished, edited, and filtered slickness any day. Heck, I read those -1 posts.
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
But for nerds, it is much better than a talk show. Not only is the initial presentation of the topic far more developed (the story or site being linked to), but the audience participation is far FAR more involved. And the subject matter is more intelligent. But let's face it, the 'audience participation' is what makes Slashdot so interesting to many of us.
I find it somewhat amusing that there is even a question as to weather or not Slashdot is journalism. Of course it is. Monolithic media conglomerates such as the NYTimes and The Mercury News don't see it as such, but this is the same reason why they just don't ring true in my ears, they've sold their journalistic souls to the sponsors, big-wigs, and advertisers.
I'm glad there is at least one voice on the net, that actually talks about 'stuff that matters.'
John
I don't read /. for the articles, I read it for the comments. I get enough CNN and CSPAN on a daily basis to bore the average person to tears. I like to hear what others think. I've learned more from the comments than the original articles. Most of the time, I don't even read the articles. I head straight for the commnents. How many other /.ers do the same?
Go not unto/. for advice, for you will be told both yea and nay (but have nothing to do with the question)
Perhaps it would make sense (if there is concern about /. navel-gazing too much) to have a box in the preferences section allowing readers to block out navel-gazing slashdot articles like we can currently block out certain authors? Or perhaps relegate non-fundamental slashdot-centric news (aka, articles other than "We're getting sued by MS" or "I'm changing the format to FrontPage on IIS on NT 4.0" ;-) to a slashbox option?
Back in to old days (you young whipper snapper) reading Usenet meant reading ALL of Usenet. But as its popularity grew the volume grew and the news groups proliferated and the signal to noise ratio dropped - and that was before alt.* and AOL. /. can continue to be truly worthwhile only as long as the posts are relevent and the volume stays below a moderateable threshold. /. plants the seeds of its own demise.
Popularity of a forum like
ellbee
You can't fight in here - this is the war room!