Mars 3D- and you don't need the glasses

Anonymous Coward writes "Here's the story over at CNN about the new map NASA has of Mars - it's 3D. So, now we can get a feel for how water moved on the planet, just how large all those formations are, and when you want to take a Mars weekend vacation in a few years, you can pick that nice sunny spot beneath the 5 mile tall mountain. " Check out the NASA Mars Animations for eye-candy.

Comments

links to more info @ Nasa

[Anonymous Coward]

http://pao.gsfc.nas a.gov/gsfc/spacesci/pictures/mola/mars3d.htm - pictures

and

http://ltpwww.gsfc.nasa.gov/tharsis/m ola.html - links to the EQ used.

Re:I want the dataset for that 3d map

[umoto]

The first thing I did when I saw these pictures is I searched for a rectangular topological map that could be applied as a texture to a sphere. I found one here. Then I cropped it down to only the map itself and put it into Extreme 3D and a simple spinning animation is being rendered as I type. Once it's finished you'll be able to look at it here.

Of course, real-time fly-bys and ultra-high resolution images would be much better. Anyone have any ideas?

Re:Mars exploration... why?

[SkipRosebaugh]

Because we can. That's the motivation for a lot of human accomplishments. They want to go there because it's there. That's why they went to the moon. That's why they climbed Everest. Also, the people who go there first will be famous. Just about everyone knows Armstrong and his "one giant leap...". We can't just sit still. It's not in our nature. Most people are driven to defy entropy in any way they can. Well, that's my philosophical 2 bits for the day.

Re:Mars exploration... why?

[umoto]

There are plenty of near-future applications that an in-depth study of Mars will help. Perhaps we'll find a way to better predict earthquakes... or even marsquakes :) ... maybe by learning more about the formation of planets on a macroscopic scale, we can gain a better understanding of objects at the microscopic level as well.

However, the most important things we learn by studying Mars and other planets are things we cannot yet foresee. Mars exploration can be characterized, for the most part, as purely scientific research right now. The practical applications will manifest themselves later on.

Total Recall & Terraforming

[Lamont]

I read an article about it in "Science & Vie" (french magazine) syaing it'll take about 200 years.
did you play SimEarth? or watch Total Recall (a very good movie)?

Uhh, sorry, Total Recall was NOT a "very good movie," at least from the perspective of terraforming Mars. One can't just pump in a huge amount of oxygen and expect everything to be hokey dokey in 10 minutes. Bad movie science in the extreme.

For a much better, and more entertaining discussion of terraforming Mars, I'd suggest the already mentioned Mars trilogy (Red Mars, Green Mars, & Blue Mars) by Kim Stanley Robinson.

I want the dataset for that 3d map

[Darxus]

So when do we get the dataset so we can do 3d fly-throughs ??

I want the quake engine redesigned to handle spherical terrian and gravity, and I want to go play on mars. With distributed servers to handle the interaction of thousands of people playing on one contiguous world. Yup. That would be neat.

the common man - i demand immediate results

[Anonymous Coward]

this kind of attitude is why great advances in society, technology, theology and really anything else get crushed.

someone says "hey, i want immediate satisfaction for what little part i put in" - in other words, you can't see the big picture

why look at mars?

mars *did* have water on it - why doesn't it now? what happened to that planet to, in relation to life as we know it, *ruin* it. nothing can live there now.

colonization isn't because there's not enough room on earth - we are inquisitive, at least some of us can see beyond our immediately material lives and wonder what's across that ocean? what's out in orbit around our sun?

if people hadn't gone to the moon and back, we wouldn't be driving the cars we do, we wouldn't be using the plastics, metals, and ceramics that are extremely common - computers surely would be further behind.

what's more of a challenge for an engineer - make me a computer than can sit under a desk, or make me one that can survive re-entry?

this isn't just about "launching rockets and taking pretty pictures" - we are epxloring, learning, teaching ourselves and expanding what we know of *life* beyond the pitiful day job existence that most people condemn themselves to for some idiotic reason.

i for one would LOVE to live on the moon, or mars, and see something so *completely unlike* the earth.

a good friend of mine, a female food engineer from kansas, just moved down to houston to work for Lockheed martin to figure out how to grow, process and package food in low / no-g environments - now *that's* interesting work - that's a challenge, that's doing something that will make a difference to the future.

even i don't get to do that - at the moment, i'm just a student and a web desginer. no one is going to give a rats ass about my pages in the future.

but - we are going to learn some pretty important things about growing plants in extremely controlled, regulated environments - and that's going to affect agriculture no matter if it is in space, or on earth.

wake up - realize there's so much more to life than what you know, and any of us could possibly realize. we are fortunate enough to actually know there are other planets, think about all the humans who *don't know what stars really are*

or didn't know just a couple hundred years ago.

Re:Can't we shoot a little lower first?

[bonehead]

The problem with that is that it would (in my mind) actually be far MORE difficult to colonize the moon with any significant number of people.

The moon is basically just a hunk of rock, meaning we would have to continually ship water, food, etc... up to the moon to sustain life there. I know of no feasable way to generate an atmosphere on the moon, meaning the inhabitants would have to remain enclosed in some sort of structure, never venturing outside for a breath of fresh air. Not very appealing to me.

Mars on the other hand, has an atmosphere, water, and soil. We (oversimplified explanation follows) simply need to scatter the surface of the planet with plant seed and tree saplings, which will grow at a highly accelerated rate in the CO2 rich atmosphere. The oxygen given off by these plants will, over time, make the Mars atmosphere breathable. This atmosphere conversion process will also create a greenhouse effect, warming the planet and melting the ice to provide inhabitants with liquid water. The big obstacle at this point seems to be efficient transportation. But that is a problem worth tackling given the higher quality of life people will enjoy on Mars as opposed to the Moon.

Re:Mars exploration... why?

[Betcour]

Sure, the earth might accept more people, but :
a) they can't all live like the American do (wasting huge quantity of resources). If the 6 billion humans on this planet lived like them, the earth would be already dead
b) some people like space. Not everybody want's to live in 5 square meters in an overpopulated city
c) food is good, but we need mineral resources too. Earth reserves of metals are not endless, and we need more of we want to do keep our (western) life standard for the next decades.

Do you know that in some country people repair dead light bulbs ? Now go to McDonalds and look at all the junk plastic that is wasted... look at those big Chevy trucks that drink gas like a loaded 747... space exploration is going to be a necessity to this (sick)civilization (since most MTV couch-potatoes will probably refuse to move their asses to make their lifestyle more earth-friendly).

quick link

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a link straight to the 3d animation of Mars

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9905/27/mars.map/k ellan.mars.mov

Mars exploration... why?

[Stiletto]

Am I the only one who doesn't see a point in exploring mars? We can see as much of it as we want from here, and I don't imagine a rock who's surface temperature is below freezing year round would make a good vacation spot. Sure, at first it seems neat that we have the technology to send people there, but really, this isn't Star Trek. It's not like we are going to find aliens there or anything.

Those of us in the USA, think of how many of your tax dollars are going into people's pockets for doing nothing more than blasting rockets off the surface of the earth so that we can take nice pictures.

And if the point of exploring mars is to eventually colonize it, think again. Despite what some would tell you, the earth is still quite under-populated. There are tons more habitable but uninhabited places on earth, than there are on mars.

Re:Mars exploration... why?

[Chris Pimlott]

The fact of the matter is a very small amount of the budget of the United States goes to NASA and all the space exploration stuff. Looking at some old data (www.ibert.org), NASA's share was only 1.45% of the total budget. Compare this to, say, the Department of Defense at 25.84% or the Department of Health and Human Serviecs at 19.76%. NASA is not exactly a huge drain of expenses. Next time, check your facts.

Re:Mars exploration... why?

[afniv]

Easy question to answer: It keeps me employed.

I resent the fact that "[American] tax dollars are going into people's pockets for doing
nothing more than blasting rockets off the surface of the earth so that we can take nice pictures."

Many overworked folks provide the scientists with the means to learn and explore. All of us use this knowledge to improve life on Earth.

As an example specifically for Mars, scientists began theorizing a "green house effect" on a planet when confronted with the question of where all the water disappeared to. Exploring only Earth to understand Earth is like researching a your cubicle or dorm room, assuming the rest of world is the same. That is a small and narrow view if you ask me.

As someone mentioned, NASA's budget is very small, less than 1% of the Federal budget. If anyone else thinks spending a few billion dollars on research is a waste of money, look at Holleywood. There is more money spent there for simply being entertained and making few folks rich. You can't do anything else with that.

With science, everyone shares. Some resources to look at:

• Spinoffs from the space program
  
• NASA Tech Briefs
  
• Space Awareness Alliance; Space Benefits
  

I realize that when you are not involved with research directly, it is hard to connect the research with your own life. But believe me, it is very challenging (and rewarding) to help scientists improve everyone's lives.

~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"

Re:Mars exploration... why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes! Let's just sit here on OUR little rock with our fingers in our ears and blinders blocking our eyes & ignore the rest of the universe.

Firstly, we cannot "see" as much of Mars as we want from here, we need robotic probes for that due to that darned ATMOSPHERE that Mars has. Mars can give us a wealth of information on how planets form & perhaps even how they die. If you think that all geology processes are exactly the same on other planets as on earth, then you are wrong.

As for colonization, yes that is a bit far off...for this and the next century, but who knows what lies beyond. As for the unhabitated land on Earth, yes please, let's fill up EVERY square mile of this planet with humanity, that'll just be wonderful!

Finally, what then should we US citizens spend our tax dollars on? There's a LOT more scientific knowledge to be gained from studying the other planets of our solar system that NASA explains to the public, because the vast majority of the publci aren't scientists, and much more knowledge is gained from such Mars exploration missions than just some "nice pictures". Besides the knowledge & techniques learned in consrtucting exploration & space vehicles and systems (both manned & unmanned) is often applied to more mundane items. A lot of common high tech devices we find ubiquitous nowadays had their origin in NASA and space exploration research.

Respectfully,
Kevin Christie
kwchri@maila.wm.edu

Re:Mars exploration... why?

[TheMeld]

First of all, there have been many things we have learned from exploring space, so why should we think that there is nothing to learn from exploring other planets?

As another person has said, Mars probably can be terraformed. One might debate whether or not that is a good thing to do, but the fact is that it probably could be done, but one needs to map and explore a place before you inhabit it, let alone terraform it.

As far as your statement about the population capacity of Earth, the maximum sustainable population varies drastically with the average standard of living you assume. To quote Ghandi (or paraphrase if my memory doesn't serve me well enough), "It the entire population of India were raised to the standard of living of the poor in England, the Earth would be stripped of its natural resources in a few years." It might take a few decades, but overall Ghandi was right. At the current distribution of standards of living, the Earth is currently beyond it's maximum sustainable population. If America alone were to shift down a few notches in waste of resources (not necessarily a very great shift in the standard of living), then our current population might become sustainable. However, the current growth rate of the population leaves our world in an untenable position. Either something must change, or a massive global crisis will occur within the next hundred years by my estimates.

I won't bother with the money issue, as someone else has already provided as succinct and effective remark on that as I can.

terraforming

[Frederic54]

yes we can terraform mars, first introduce plants so they will produce oxygen and absorb co2, then an atmospher will be created, then... I read an article about it in "Science & Vie" (french magazine) syaing it'll take about 200 years.
did you play SimEarth? or watch Total Recall (a very good movie)? or read whole Foundation from Assimov?
--

Re:Mars exploration... why not?

[DHartung]

At one point, that would have been "Western Hemisphere exploration ... why?"

Most initial exploration (Columbus, Magellan, Lewis & Clark) has been underwritten by governments who foresaw the day when the benefits would outweigh the costs. It's an investment in our future -- in this case, mankind's future. I believe that if we wish to ensure the survival of the human race it is essential to expand beyond one planet (and eventually, one solar system).

The economic arguments are also persuasive, although the return-on-investment ratios are horrible to start and only get better a long, long time down the road. Mars and the asteroids have metals and minerals that human civilization will eventually require (once conservation, recycling, and substitution run their courses). Mars is an excellent headquarters for exploiting the asteroids.

The technological advances that we will gain by challenging ourselves will also be invaluable. We don't know what those may be, of course, but previous experience shows us that the most important advances aren't random: they are developed in response to a challenging need. Just like a high-jumper only improves by raising the bar, mankind needs to constantly find new challenges.

Finally, Mars will eventually be a cultural outlet for those hemmed in by human society on Earth, which will become increasingly urban, regulated, and lacking in personal space, privacy, and freedom. The first colonists on Mars may be sponsored by one or more governments ... or they may be religious refugees, like many of the people who colonized the Americas wearing only the clothes on their back.

More information may be found at the Mars Society website.

Re:Can't we shoot a little lower first?

[Betcour]

The moon is boring - no atmosphere, very low gravity. Mars is closer to earth and might be made habitable someday WITHOUT living underground.

Yet I think we need to find some industrial application for space exploration, if we want to colonize. No governement is going to pay for the fun of colonizing. What is driving research and investment into space lunching vehicules is the sattelite market, so we need something to motivate investors...