Slashdot Mirror
Mozilla M6 released
ZuperDee writes "The Mozilla Organization has just
put out their 6th
Milestone Release of SeaMonkey. I highly recommend downloading it
from their ftp
site. Some of the new things in this release include more mail/news
functionality, the beginnings of the profile creation wizard and install
wizard, and of course, lots of bug fixes. " Seems sluggish right
now, but hopefully they'll be mirrors.
Compare file sizes and keep in mind that you have swap space. It is far more effecient than IE or Netscape.
The 16 planned milestones you refer too is not indicative of how far along Mozilla is. Remember, part of the OSS model is continuous development, with occasional freezes leading to release of a stable version, before the continuous development continues. While they've planned ahead up to around M16, that's just because they're looking into the future, beyond version 5.0. Reading through that list of milestones, Mozilla will be feature complete at M9 or so, and be released shortly after M10.
Microsoft claims it is using "temporary memory" and that is why the usage in the "About this computer" looks so high. Whatever they call it, I can verify this does indeed happen. After surfing for about an hour I've seen IE claim 70 megabytes of RAM (after being allocated a generous 8 megabytes) and start pounding on my hardrive to the point it just accesses my hardrive and decides it can't view any page. The only solution is to quit IE and restart. Opening another app does NOT surrender memory to the newly opened app as MS claims (See their FAQ off the Mactopia site) nor does a utility like MacOSPurge do anything.
IE 4.5 also doesn't let me view 95% of the pages that use DHTML. There's just no implementation of the Netscape DOM and without ActiveX support on the Mac you can't view IE DHTML.
That said, IE does have a snappier rendering engine, has more options for use, and better CSS-1 support. However, it will never equal Mozilla on the Mac.
Right now, if I surf for under 30 minutes, I'll use IE4.5. If I will be online for sometime, I'll use Netscape 4.5.
If you are having a problem with updating from a previous build to M6, and are getting error messages concerning it not finding files when you run apprunner, and it appears that its looking in the wrong directory. Delete windows\mozregistry.dat this stores info about file locations.. it will be recreated on the next load
I hve gone through the same problem. Rerunning
apprunner seems to work, though, as the Profile
Manager is not started again. It is this that seems to crash apprunner the first time it's started.
Hope this helps.
OK, I just reran the test. The banners now seem to be coming in, in full. But are they supposed to be at the bottom of the page or down the middle column like that?
Here's a screenshot. I had to shrink it and decrease the colors to get the size down, so it won't look pretty, but it'll show you the outline of the page.
-Augie
P.S. Wait. Nevermind. I take it all back. I just looked again and the banners are at the bottom of the page now. Really weird. Maybe I just had to wait longer, but the throbber thingy had stopped throbbing, so I thought it was done. Maybe that's a bug? (Total time: 153.7 seconds at 36,000 bps. Might just be a clogged ISP pipeline, though.)
Woohoo....
posted this from within M6....
working quite well...
Just remember, kids, that there are
several reasons why this is slower than the final
product will be - most obviously,
it's presently spewing loads of debugging + status
information out.
Hey....the preferences nearly work now !
No more manually cutting+pasting the configuration
from ~/.netscape/preferences.js
to ~/.mozila/profile/prefs50.js
The build you got from /last-built/ was a nightly build, not the Official M6 one. At last word, Mac had a super nasty bug holding it back. Someone said it would be ready Tuesday. The version you have is not quite as polished as the Milestone will be.
-- Jason@mozillazine.org
Actually, MSIE 4.5 Mac is rock-solid on the machines I've used. If one has random crashes, one usually has to trash the "Internet Preferences" file from the Preferences folder.
MSIE PPC is fast, stable, and has a very slick UI. Not too surprising, since some members of the development team are from Claris.
Other than being made by Microsoft, the only real problem it has is all that crap it spews all over the system folder. Wait, is that redundant?
Of course, there are some other browsers -- iCab is very good. But I'm really hoping (like everyone) that Mozilla comes in and saves the day for all platforms everywhere.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
If you ever download it from "last-built" or if it has a name like "05-18-99-M6" It is not M6, it just means that the code checkins are from the M6 pool (correct me if wrong)
That's why there are 05-28-99-M7 builds, even though M7 is far from done.
----------
"They misunderestimated me." --George W Bush, Nov. 6, 2000
The page is divided up several ways with DIVs... some of them are there for physical layout, others for font colors and such. The relevant ones to the banner placement are the two that contain the columns, which are float: left and float: right respectively, and defined to be 45% width, so they should resize freely but always be able to sit side-by-side. The HR and the banner images are contained in another DIV which is clear: both, so it shouldn't allow floating elements on either side of it. Since it comes after the columns on the page, it should drift down until it's below the floating columns. If the DIV enclosing the banners weren't clear: both, it could legitimately fill in the space between the columns, but that's not the case.
And I think trying to group DIVs with SPANs falls into a kind of hazy area in the standard... I'm too lazy to check the standard right now, but I think the way it works is block-level elements can enclose other block-level elements or inline elements, but inline elements can only enclose other inline elements, not block-level elements.
DIV is sometimes a block-level element and sometimes an inline, and SPAN is always an inline, which means enclosing DIVs inside SPANs is legal until the moment you do something with the DIV that an inline can't do, thus forcing it to be block-level... such as enclose another block-level element - like a P - in it. Since the DIVs on that page do contain Ps, I believe enclosing them in SPANs is illegal...
DIV and SPAN appear to be functionally identical, anyway, except for the block vs. inline thing, so I'm not sure there's ever a reason to use SPAN...
For me Netscape 4.08 is much more stable than IE 4.5 on MacOS (G3 266/MacOS 8.6). It renders pages a little slower, but is actually less of a resource hog than IE. I've had IE suddenly using 70 megs of RAM and 1000 MB of my harddrive for no apparent reason. And it has a tendency of getting into infinite loops and when I kill it, it leaves stale processes that cannot be killed so a restart is necessary.
Fix it your damn self. Bitch, Bitch, Bitch, it
does not work on my strange distro someone
should fix this. Damn it, grad a debugger and
some gnu tools and fix the problem! The whole
point of open source is that you can actually
fix strange problems like this that only
show up on you box.
Well, the website still doesn't say anything about it, but the ftp link just has a case-sensitive typo in it. Here's the real link.
This is just about the first time that mozilla worked for me! I was suprised. Although it does run a bit slugish on my computer, it's usuable and displays webpages right. Although the one weird thing was when I went to slashdot and went to the preferences, it messed up all the boxes, but I fixed them.
If it didn't, this page wouldn't display at all.
even bigger problem is that it's hard to set the cache to what I want. I don't want 1% of my 14 gig hd for cache-that's alot of megs
---
i've run a manual update and m6 is now available
r eleases/m6/
e ases/m6/
at mirror.aarnet in australia. you can get
it from
ftp://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/mozilla/mozilla/
or
http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/mozilla/mozilla/rel
IE has a major flaw in regard to the handling of it's cache.
Netscape also has a major flaw in it's cache handling,
in that these are kept in per user directories.
Also the multi user handling is weak and inflexiable,
both under Unix and Windows.
Get the libstdc++-2.8.glibc2-compiled package
/lib, and therefor you can run a libc5 stdc++ and a stdc++ for glibc2.
from Brian Dial's excellent
ftp://lrasputin.linuxos.net/pub/slakware-packs.
It installs in
way
The standard is not hazy.
SPANs can never contain DIVs. SPANs are inline; DIVs are always block-level. There are two kinds of block-level elements: those that can contain other blocks (like DIV, LI, DD, BLOCKQUOTE) and those that can contain only inlines (P, H1, ADDRESS, etc.).
These are *content model* distinctions in HTML's DTDs. This is entirely orthogonal to *display semantics* in CSS. You can make a DIV display "inline", and a SPAN display "block". This confuses many people.
What, no Mac version?
You should really calm down. The mac version should be coming shortly. Windows/Linux/Mac are practically at platform parity as far as development cycles are concerned.
From my experience IE handles CSS better than Mozilla, there are some problems with it doubling up properties like underline && overline, and some support for cursor: among other things is quite bad.
I wish Mozilla was better, and it seems to slowly be getting so but at the moment IE5 is sexy.
Compare browsers on this HTML tutor that i'm slowly writing (404's aplenty, don't bother reporting).
-Docvert converts MSWord to OpenDocument, clean HTML
Have to stick with using the menu to open new windows...
I guess I could hack a button for the toolbar, but it's not functionally different than using the menu bar.
On another not, anyone notice M6 expanding to suck up all the free CPU cycles? Anyone know why?
-AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
Those tools are not all great. Esp. VB which I suffer at the moment. It sucks monumentously, but this company love M$ (which is why I'm leaving in a month or so
~ Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity ~
Is mozilla worth it for anyone out there?
I've never had good luck with it. It crashes a little less than netscape and is even more of a memory hog on my machine. It does seem a hell of a lot faster though.
Also, has netscape made any real progress in the last few quarters? beyond cosmetic changes in version 4.6 and the extra AOL crap that comes forcibly bundled with it I cannot see any. On my rh6.0 and debian 2.1 boxes netscape 4.08 works remarkably better then versions 4.51/4.6. I realize that some of the code is made up of netscape's, why didn't the mozilla team choose a better browser to model? ( KDE's browser rushes to mind, in my experience with it last year it was already faster/stable/more usable than netscape.
Does anyone know of a browser for the gnome desktop? Am i correct that mozilla makes use of gtk? Do any other browsers out there?
I'm sure i'm the only linux user who really hopes the rumor to be true, but I for one cannot wait for IE for linux (assuming that it is not the poor hack i've heard the other unix versions are) IE on the MACs at work is much better than netscape and uses considerably less resources.
[disclaimer: yes MS is not the most 'kind' organization, but IMHO Internet Explorer is a damn fine piece of software (on win32 and mac that is)]. i hope the linux version is usable.
-matt
...or another european mirror, at NTUA@Greece: ftp://ftp.ntua.gr/pub/www/Moz illa/mozilla/releases
This alone has made it worth it to set my
Netscape 3.04. Linux.
This is really starting to look good. The Mozilla team have made a lot of progress since the last release. I bet that by this get to beta it will be ready to replace 4.XX (and IE for those of you who use that). It renders pages faster than the 4.XX releases on my box (the text loads a lot faster and that is usually the important part 8).
I was not able to crash it at all.
I think the gui design is starting to look very interesting, I always preferred the netscape gui to IE anyway, but I think maybe Mozilla is going to make this even more so. I run linux as a workstation at home and at work, so IE is
not an option for me anyway. Even if M$ was to port IE to linux and it performed any thing like it does under windows, It would probably be
slower than Mozilla anyway. I did some testing with IE 4.and win98 vs Netscape 4.XX and linux, the last combination was clearly faster on my
system, linux may be a big factor here but I bet the IE port to linux would be at least as bloated as the sun port. Anyway I really need IE for linux like I need cancer.
This is excellent work by the Mozilla team and I am really looking forward to the beta and the final release.
Linux, coming to a desktop near you!
1) Daniel Roberts is working on a Motif port 2) Christopher Blizzard is working on implementing the platform specific parts of gecko (gfx (rendering) and widget (widgetry)) using xlib only. That is without using an x toolkit. 3) Check out the MathML project at http://www.mozilla.org/projects/mathml/
---
Hmm.. that's odd. You using M6? The banner graphics worked for me in both the Win98 and Solaris versions of M5...
I've never been able to get the SeaMonkey releases
to work with Linux. The Windows versions work fine, but don't offer any advantages over using IE 4 or 5 or Netscape 4.x.
Mozilla is slow, it renders jerkily, and of course many of the menus items and buttons don't work or are stubbed out. It's not responsive to mouse and keyboard actions - there is a noticeable delay. On the other hand it does keep the formatting in memory so that when pages are resized the whole thing doesn't reload from scratch like Netscape 4.x. And, the Windows versions doesn't crash much, but neither does Netscape or IE with typical use for browsing, email and light downloading.
I know this is a pre-alpha, but how many releases will it take. Not impressed, much ado about very little. So what if it renders CSS perfectly. Who cares.
Can anybody offer any suggestions about why Mozilla returns an error with Linux? I use a very
modern glibc 2.1 distro, Stampede, and have had no problems with Gnome, Kde or anything else either compiling from source or using packages.
Always, with Mozilla there is "function not found" in one of the standard C++ lib routines, streambuff something, can't remember the exact function. The required Mozilla lib is there, but it calls some other standard C++ functin from a standard lib which it doesn't find.
There is no point downloading it again, unless someone out there who also uses Stamepde can find a fix. Probably, Mozilla is using some non-standard C++ libs that some distros include for compatibility but Stampede doesn't, or some of Stampede's libs are corrupt (unlikely).
I'll keep using the Kfm filemanager/browser for most web browsing on Linux, and Netscape 4.6 for those rare pages that Kfm doesn't handle well.
Kfm is much more functional, faster, more stable, and prettier than either Netscape or Mozilla or IE 5 on Windoze. I can't wait for KDE's next upgrade
"Konqueror".
Netscape 4.6 is also very nice - a dramatic improvement over 4.51.
M6
bob
The release notes say it still crashes a lot with multiple windows. Until that is fixed, I won't donwload. It's the single feature I use the most.
Ok, here's the deal as far as I'm aware. I'm loath
To report it as a bug, since its only a bug with
the binary, not with compiled source.
The libstdc++ library contains a symbol, __iostream8 or similar, which normally only has
one "_" in front of it. However the library which
is being compiled against by the binary builder
is an old, broken one, which gives this particular
symbol TWO underscores. Both Debian and Redhat
appear to distrubute, as part of the standard distrubution, a copy of the old, broken, version
as well as the newer versions which fix the bug. Thus the binaries work fine on them, but not on slackware and possibly a couple of other distributions, because they DON'T include a copy of the broken lib. There isn't anything you can do
afaik, Your only option is to attempt to compile the source yourself, and thus gain a binary which uses the correct symbol for iostream8
You can't win a fight.
I must be being stupid here, but running ./mozilla-apprunner.sh on the Linux version goes through a pointless `set up profiles' dialog, and then just stops. I think it core dumps (although it doesn't leave a core file). Has anyone actually got this running on Linux?
If it just kept/used bookmarks it would be. It'll be just like beggars cany err I mean just like the old days with mosaic. Without bookmarks, it's not worth it though.
I'm sorry, but I /still/ cannot see any JPEGs in Mozilla. This is trying the main branch and M7 both. I even had it link with its own copy of libjpeg, rather than mine, and it won't help. If this simple thing doesn't even work, I find Mozilla totally unusable.
Brian Fundakowski Feldman
the problem with win98/IE integration is that when IE crashes, my system is hosed (reboot and get another beer). When Netscape crashes, I restart it and get on with life. Using History makes this usually pretty easy. I personally cannot abide using a program that screws up my entire computer when it misbehaves.
Chris
PS. the last time I used IE 4.5 on a mac it had significant problems. It actually slowed down all other programs! There was stuff on this at www.macintouch.com such as this dated 2/1/99:
John Kordyback supplied another example of Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.5's penchant for reducing performance of other
applications (see also Peek-a-boo, a utility for displaying resource usage):
"I've noticed that Interapplication Communication is much slower when Internet Expolorer 4.5 is running on my Mac
(3400c/8.5.1/80 megs RAM). For example, if you run the following do-nothing AppleScript for Excel:
tell application "Microsoft Excel"
Activate
ClearContents Range "R1C1:R100C1"
ClearContents Range "R1C2"
set startTime to current date
repeat with i from 1 to 100
set rowString to i as string
set rngString to "R" & rowString & "C1"
set FormulaR1C1 of Range rngString to rowString
end repeat
set totalTime to ((current date) - startTime) as string
set FormulaR1C1 of Range "R1C2" to totalTime
end tell
It averages 4.8 seconds without IE 4.5 running and 13.9 seconds with. I've also noticed that OLE communication (which
really uses AppleEvents for communication) is similarly slower."
_damnit_
It's my job to freeze you. -- Logan's Run
Netscape also has (and has had) a problem with lots of dialog boxes popping up about bad widget sizes. You can't get rid of the messages, but you can send them to stderr instead where they do no harm. Check DejaNews for how to configure that.
With those two fixes applied, 4.5/4.6 seems as good or better than 4.08.
M6 Out!
I used Opera until the time limit was up.
Nice browser. It would go back to the right place in the thread, too. I liked the multiple window feature.
Goto http://style.verso.com/.
View the pages there in IE4, IE5, NS4, and a recent version of Moz. All of these browsers except one suck royally at trying to render the CSS tests found there. Guess which one? (Hint, it's not NS, and it's not either version of IE.)
Then come back and tell us who's spreading FUD-dillyishusness.
--Z.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
yep, it seems to have a problem centering tables. I have noticed this on a number of sites, so your not alone. ;-)
btw
This is still only a beta, and while a little rough around the edges, I think it shows alot of potential.
Yeah,for a Beta, iCab is pretty good!
Fully Navigation Services and Net Services
compliant, totally Drag&Drop everywhere, renders pages
fast as IE, and the best part: image filters!
I wish these guys the best of luck.
It does crash on occasion, like most betas should,
but with MacsBug, it crashes very cleanly, and you
can relaunch right away with no problems.
Pope
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
As much as I love to root for the underdog, in my experience, Netscape is too big, too slow, and too horrible to use. Explorer (I'm using 4.5 and Communicator 4.5. All of 4.x all gave me the same problems) runs much more quickly, has a MUCH better user interface (eg it lets me use my own email program when clicking on mailto: links, as opposed to Netscape's super-annoying habit of forcing me to use communicator's email regardless of my IC prefs) and has hosts of other nice features from which Netscape could take some serious hints. Another example that comes to mind is the "Go" button next to the URL box. Yes, I know it's a symptom of my supreme laziness, but if I cut&paste a URL, it's a pain to have to go and hit the enter key. As I said, I am that lazy. And like I said, it runs several orders of magnitude faster and more stably than any Netscape 4.x.
Maybe Netscape has given up on the older Macs and is designing programs that work fantastically on the g3s or something, I have no idea honestly. All I know is that on this little ol' 7300/180/32MB, IE kicks Navigator/Communicator's ass wayyy around the block. A few times.
I'd be interested to know what kind of Mac you're using as well as which versions of the progams.
-----BEGIN ANNOYING SIG BLOCK-----
Evan
rooooar
It is slower than N4.6 right now, definitely.
The jerkiness, I have found, seems to be tied to a bug(?) in which M6 'expands' to suck up all the free CPU cycles. Anyone know why it does that?
Likewise, any way in Windows to click on a link and get a new window? The menubar->file->close option doesn't seem to work, meaning I don't think one can close a window without killing all of them.
-AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
I very much doubt that they have done overall speed optimisations yet. The layout engine itself is very fast and very stable. Don't judge it as if it a release version -- it isn't.
John_Chalisque
Okay, for starters... Mozilla is *not* Netscape 4. Not any more. Anything you thought you knew about Netscape, it does not apply to Mozilla.
If you think that Netscape's CSS support is atrociously bad, you are entirely correct. If you think that that means Mozilla's is too, you are completely wrong.
Yes, IE is much better CSS-support-wise than Netscape. That's not hard... Netscape's CSS support is literally worse than none at all. IE is far from perfect, though. There's some fairly useful stuff they didn't even try to implement, and they don't seem to have any plans to do so. And, of course, being Microsoft, there's a lot of useless flash added that isn't mentioned in the standard anywhere. Embrace-and-extend, always...
Mozilla does CSS. Period. Oh, there are a few minor things that aren't there yet (there doesn't seem to be any support for text direction, for instance) and a few bugs where things that are implemented don't work right (try setting up a transparent GIF with the background-image for IMGs set to a different GIF that's fixed to the background, and see what happens) but for the most part, it just works. And it blows IE away.
If you want proof, take a look at this page with Netscape (careful... it crashes 4.06, and possibly other versions), IE, and Mozilla, in turn. I wrote the page to the standard without regard for how real-world browsers rendered it, just to see how well they'd do.
Netscape 4.51 makes a mess of it, and manages to get the text color screwed up so that it's black on black in one place. IE (4 and 5 appear to act the same) gets all the basics... it ignores the first-line and first-letter stuff and some of the fixed background-image stuff - and possibly also the line-through on the DEL tag, I don't recall just now. Mozilla gets it all perfectly.
Oh, as a side note... has anyone gotten Mozilla to work on a libc5 Linux system? Or am I going to have to wait for my Slack 4.0 disk with the glibc2 runtime libs to arrive? I've been using the Solaris version with the display redirected (gotta love X) at work, but I don't have that option at home (would be nice if I had a spare Enterprise 5500 kicking around at home, but somehow I don't think that's going to happen)...
well it is a total rewrite so you have to expect the bugs
---
M6 this link works bob
It's page structure is similar:
Table divides the page into 'panes', left hand side control/menu, right side sectioned into comment blocks.
Renders fine.
Slashdot renders fine, and it has something akin, left side is comment blocks and right side is control/menu...
I suspect(browsed through the page source, but it was too cluttered to see anything at a glimpse) it's either an obscure HTML compatibility issue that you violate(or they violate), or you're using a tag incorrectly... What does an HTML verifier say about your site?
-AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
I've somehow gotten M6 to explode, grabbing all idle CPU cycles.
I've also gotten it to crash whenever I touch the preferences dialogue.
Have you seen anything else?
Your sig:
Wasurenaide - where did you go and what did you do as well(?)
-AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
Wanted to say a few good things, test M6 on Slashdot, give it a few rounds...
Some things cause it to crash immediately; opening preferences under edit, and hitting okay(even if you don't do *anything*), for example.
Haven't otherwise caused it to crash.
Was able to replace the throbber and some other minor graphics to suit my taste.
Colors suck, but otherwise okay.
Once in a while I lose focus from the window; don't know what is happening...
The executeable is very small, but has a 17mb footprint under NT task manager... Perhaps optimization will shrink this in the future?
Hasn't crashed yet, through normal use, and loading is very fast, if not quite smooth or polished. Anyone notice this?
Under N4.5 or 4.6, it may take a tad longer to load up a page, but the redraw isn't as jerky, and scrolling was definitely smoother. Perhaps an 'animation' issue, like page flipping or double buffering?
Still, much better than m3 and m4. It *seems* stable enough to be my main browser, except I can't right click and open new windows.
Now I have to navigate Slashdot threads one at a time.
Perhaps the capability will be added again in M7?
-AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
Please report this problem to bugzilla.mozilla.org and submit the url to them also.. will help in determining the problem. If you do not have a login for bugzilla simply type in a email address and not a password and hit the e-mail me a password button this is all that is required for registration
Thank you for proving my point, by completely missing my point.
Boy, I'll say they're different. The problems you're describing with your IE experience are the ones I had with Netscape. Not to repeat my original post, but Netscape would usually crash the entire system several times a day, whereas IE has only crashed 5 or 6 times in the past few months, and has never taken down the rest of the computer with it. It wasn't until I stopped using Netscape that I realized how bad it was.
I guess this is just an example of the idiosyncracies of computers. One program behaves nicely and another badly on one system, and the exact opposite occurs on another system. Weird. I guess when I get my new Lombard (yeah, right) I'll have to reevaluate the browser situation. Though with all the UI prettiness of IE, I'd probably stand some crashing. God knows I did for 2 years with Netscape... Hopefully Mozilla will change things around for Netscape.
BTW, I assume you're referring to LinuxPPC PRE-R5, right? They didn't release R5 without telling me, I hope.
-----BEGIN ANNOYING SIG BLOCK-----
Evan
rooooar
When/if IE comes out on Linux, we'll *finally* have a useful browser.
We?
Heh. Maybe they'll port COM, VC++, SQL Server, Exchange, MTS, IIS and (oh, please, please, please) Visual Basic.
And then we can just throw all these crappy GNU tools away, chuck sendmail, nuke all these silly Internet protocols and, God, never have to use any tools with stupid names like 'awk'.
And then I can be a Microsoft Certified Professional on Linux. Cool.
(This comment is based on M5, I'm d/ling M6 right now)
I don't get it... The renderer engine is fast as hell and works great (at least that's my experience) but the GTK-based front end is buggy (lots of warnings and criticals) and slooooow. I've written some programs in GTK-- (BTW, if Mozilla is C++, why doesn't it use GTK-- instead of GTK+?) and I have no idea why they found it so difficult to make the front-end bug-free.
Guikachu: Resource editor for PalmOS developers
Here is the post.
in ~/.mozilla/prefs50.js ensure you have lines like the following:
user_pref("network.proxy.http", "junkbuster");
user_pref("network.proxy.http_port", 5865);
I think you can get the same effect under Micros~1 by copying your netscape preferences file to the mozilla directory. Or something like that.
--
--
The Internet is the Suppository of All Knowledge. You get it in the end.
The ftp directory has a case-error, "/M6" instead of "/m6". I just downloaded the package (240 Kbytes/sec, I *love* my ADSL) and am about to try it out.
t ones/ says a bit about Milestone 6, and some of the upcoming ones.
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/miles
I wish the Mozilla folks luck, and I'm looking forward to the day when it becomes usable enough for me to switch. Netscape 4 just has *way* too many bugs and security holes, and I really want to move to an Open Source product (where hopefully the problems will be easier to find and fix).
when you go back, Lynx will return you to the right place (the place you were looking at, not the top of the document). And Slashdot (and most other sites I find worthwhile) are quite readable in Lynx.
One the one hand, this creates an extra layer between the browser core and what you see on the screen, if you will -- on the other, it means you can create new skins for Moz with a text editor. :-) XUL and RDF: The Implementation of the Application Object Model is a good starting point if you want to learn more about it.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Does it do java ? What JDK version does it support ?
Also, it doesn't seem to display the ads at the top of the page, which I think is a nice feature. ;-) Keep up the good work!
----------------------
There is no K5 cabal.
I am not the real rusty.
Not that this is a good excuse for it being so buggy, let me add...
Guikachu: Resource editor for PalmOS developers
A Bunch of pplz are wondering about the Mac version of m6 - I got it from ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/last-bui lt/ before m6 was even announced. And the creation date seems to be a while ago. I guess they just didn't post it to the m6 directory.
It's not that great actually, it still can't replace 4.6 (and I REALLY would like it replaced). And I had to rename my hard dive before using it b/c of some obscure bug that prevents it from running when your hard drive has a name that uses weird characters - and this bug has been around for a long time. It is making progress though, albeit very slowly.
-Rafi Remove the Spanish to email me.
I was wondering if this thread about M6 being worth it, if it could be moderated down a point so that my post on bugs and issues on M6 could float a little higher?
I attached this comment to a level 5 response to a level 5 post to catch someone's eye. One point down would work...
I'm sorta curious to get more feedback on M6 issues and problems...
Thanks, whoever is reading.
-AS
-AS
*Pikachu*
The Mozilla website says nothing about Milestone 6 and the ftp directory linked here doesn't exist.
I found this very annoying also. So I just launch a new browser to read the threads under the main and when I close off the thread window the main is exactly where I left off. Works quite well.
"We want to take over the world, but we don't want to do it tomorrow, it's OK if it's next week"-- Linus Torvalds
Are you sure it's mozilla at fault. ...
Maybe there is an incompatibility with the HTML definition in your site.
And since mozilla is only supposed to render completely HTML-compatible sites,
The mac M6 build will be available tuesday afternoon. They had a nasty blocker bug in mailnews if I recall.
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"They misunderestimated me." --George W Bush, Nov. 6, 2000
Well, I suppose enabling asserts slows down the code a fair bit
It's not the asserts. There was a recent post about the slow reaction you get when moving the mouse. Follow the next few replies to that post. There are several good explanations of what is causing the slowdown. The short summary is that rollovers are causing the entire document to get redrawn when you move your mouse around. But redrawing the whole browser is complicated, so everything slows to a crawl.
mozilla looks beatifull to me, revolutionary infact for a browser, its small, mudular, looks to be *extremely* configurable.
Unfortunatly m5 didnt work for me cause i go through a proxy, i hope thats one of the bugs fixed
it's these reflow bugs that slow down everything
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I'm a Slackware user (Slack 3.6 + kernel 2.2.6) and experienced this with RealPlayer G2. The same fix worked for M6. Note you need glibc2.
/dir/where/it/is
/dir/where/it/is # adjust to shell
Grab libstdc++ from RedHat 5.1; package name was libstdc++-2.8.0-14.i386.rpm.
Extract the actual library from it (I've heard rpm2targz does this, I don't have it, I stripped the header off, gunzipped, and used cpio to extract it from the resulting file. Don't know if I could do it again).
Put libstdc++.so.2.8.0 somewhere handy - I just put it in the M6 package dir.
cd
ln -s libstdc++.so.2.8.0 libstdc++.so.2.8
setenv LD_LIBRARY_PATH
ldconfig -v | grep stdc # check if found right copy
Also make sure your path includes "."
./run_mozilla.sh
GOOD LUCK!
--Indigo
I'm using IE5 now and slashdot is the only reason I do so!
Let me explain.
When you click on a reply to a comment, read it and want to return to the index, netscape would return you to the beginning of the page, while IE would return you to where you left off. Normally this isn't all that bad, but when you have pages with 100+ comments on them and you're somewhere halfway down the page, it is very irritating that netscape returns you to the beginning of the page after reading a reply.
I hope they change this with Mozilla, and I'll w
quit using IE.
For the rest I don't really care. I must agree to a post earlier that I also though MS was the evil empire, and I also turned to the dark side when I started using IE. But, if it suits me better, then I'm going to use it.
Y. Strumpur
One of the good points in viewing slashdot.org with mozilla M6 is that you dont get to see that annoying advertisment! :)
On most Unix systems, it's just a middle click to open a new window-- no menu selections, just a middle click.
If it's the Linux build you are testing, the speed problem is well known and being worked on. Basically, reflow is being triggered way more often than needed. There's been a lot of discussion about it on the Mozilla newsgroups.
Netscape also does the tempory memory crap to.. Visit a page with lots of tables and graphics and it will start using alot more memory then it was assigned.
This has something to do with the way web browser need more memory on complex pages..
At any rate Netscape nor Internet Exploiter don't release memory properly when done. (Until you quit the application).
The Mac build has regressed a bit, but is due on Tuesday
Well, I suppose enabling asserts slows down the code a fair bit, but on my machine, the highlight can't even keep up with the mouse on the menus. Web pages take 3x as long to load as on Netscape, and it takes forever to load all of the images on an image-heavy page. If this the "Raptor" I was looking forward to,I must say I'm underwhelmed.
Considering that you have to manually set the memory allocation for programs on the MacOS, how did IE arbitrarily grab 70MB of RAM? (This is an honest question - I didn't think that was possible.)
On an old Quadra 950, I'd take MacIE over Netscape any day, I do know that. Friends with newer Macs favor Netscape, but they also allocate 50MB of memory to it.
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Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
I would have to agree completely here. Its all about attinuation.
:)
First we will get used to having a MS browser. Then the MS web server will naturally follow to support the proprietory features of the browser. Of course, bundled with the browser will be an e-mail client, which of course works best on your network with Exchange, so you better migrate to that too. Then you will be needing some tools to build applications that work with all the great MS software you have, because you cant make anything compatible without them, since none of the software MS is offering is open source. Next thing you know, most of the software you use is propritory MS garbage.
I thought the best thing about Linux was that it and most of the software you can use on it is open-source stuff. I don't understand how anyone could be wanting MS in the Linux arena - I thought MS was what we were trying to get away from.
I guess this marks the main difference between the newbies (who are only after mainstreaming Linux) and the more seasoned users (who just want good, open source software).
Just a thought before hitting the coffee...
--SONET
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. --Benjamin Franklin
There is nothing wrong with those tools. Netscape (and at this time mozilla) are too slow and crash too frequently. I'd like to see a stable browser sometime. I really do not care from where it comes. MS simply seems like to obvious place.
Perhaps all slashdot users should band together and create a browser?
I tried the nightly builds and they work fine on my website....but when I try M6 my website is all out of order. Check it out. Use netscape 4.x and go to Civ:CTP for Linux news site Now try it with the most recent nightly build (the one before M6) see how it puts the page together perfectly? Now try it with M6...its all wacked out :P I hope that the final version will render my page correctly! Natas
/.ers in europe should try this link (in Norway - 300 users max).
Just downloaded it, and I have to say, it feels like a step back, to me. It just crashed on me for
the first time ever, and seems slower (certainly mozilla-viewer.sh is heading towards snail like, IMHO, and run-mozilla.sh doesn't feel as fast as the last version).
Anyone else experiencing this, or do I kick my system a few times until it decides to play nicely?