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More Linux Coverage in the News
Principal Skinner writes "
The main feature on Userweb has a pretty good exposé of Linux, the open-source movement, and trends in OSes. Heavily slams NT on reliability, scalability and TCO, as well as raising questions about whether Windows2000 is The Answer. Also talks a bit about Novell and its products. "
I had the same question. It refers to things that happened "this Spring" which did occur in the spring of '99, including Mac OS X so it has to be recent. But did you also note that the footer infers it is copyright 1997?
Novell to their customers. If they didn't they would be out of business by now.
What you're advocating would mean Novell having to listen to every geek out there on the web, wether they are customers or not.
That basically means their customers would have a smaller voice, in the sea of any wannabe who had a copy of their code. That's the opposite of listening to their customers.
Technically speaking, Linux also offers enterprises a migration path to support 64-bit applications as soon as they become available. ... Microsoft, Novell and other OS vendors are still at least a year away from providing 64-bit application support at the OS level....
Is Linux really so 64-bit clean? I know that the VFS layer is not on 32-bit architectures, and I haven't yet heard that glibc2 and kernel 2.2 are totally cleaned up even on e.g. Alpha and UltraSPARC. Someone who has had more recent experience please let me know... last time it mattered I found myself using cruft like llseek(), *shudder*.
I am sure of one thing: Linux is not ahead of Solaris on 64-bit cleanliness of interfaces. I have yet to come across any documented interface in Solaris 2.6 that is neither 64-bit nor has an explicit 64-bit equivalent.
Java: the COBOL of the new millenium.
Today all the shop that use NT must deal with NT bugs and try to find some workaround because they don't have the possibility to fix it (don't have the code). Your credibility to your customer can suffer from fault that aren't yours but are in the OS.
If you use some open source OS you can either fix it or help other people fixing it (bug report...). Your credibility can suffer too but you can work to fix what pulled your credibility down (if this is bug related).
In on part you have more control over your destiny but in the other part you have less control over your customer (they can more easily leave if they aren't happy). So you compete on your own quality.
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
(Several other distributions can do NFS installs; can any others install via FTP?)
--
i was looking for an ISO file. to image. That Version of Linus looked real good. as to the other Dude... If you read my post, i Stated that i have a T1 line this means i can download the 600 Megs on my 500 MHZ winNT quad Proccessor at about 110bps. this will be about 2 hours of download time for me. from there i will burn it on to Cd.. and then install it on my toshiba laptop. I am Defecting over to the unix world... :)
:P
but in this case, linux...
Mike
microberts@dttus.com -for those who want to know how to contact me...
PS: Slashdot.org ROCKS!!!!!! I have had more Support from you Guys than from all of M#$%#$S
Turns out the article I referred to did not contain stuff about NT's high Total Cost of Ownership. Sorry. I originally ran across this article in Washington DC Computer User, which has the Userweb URL on the front. The newspaper had an adjacent article on how great Unix is compared to NT, but by the time I got around to posting to Slashdot, I'd forgotten these were two separate articles, and it turns out only the feature article is shown on their website.
one hundred twenty
is just enough characters
to write a haiku
Thad
The Bolachek Journals
Novell uses closed source because they think they make more money with it. If the mucky-mucks decided open source would be more profitable, that's what they'd do. That's all.
By the way, my itty-bitty employer never had a network as long as it had to be a Netware network. Too expensive and complicated.
Now with Linux, it's a natural. Hooray for that flightless bird!
it means that linuxers better not knock off Novell because linux needs their NDS
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But "Mr. Novell" to us, huh?
Well, good heavens! Those geeks couldn't possible have any good ideas, could they.
To answer the point behind the persiflage (and my, is there a lot of it in your post), it is not inconsistent to listen to technically educated people and to one's customers. Most companies manage this trick without difficulty.
Perhaps you need to work on your listening skills.
--
Some keywords for the NSA in the Lord of the Rings universe: One Ring bind find Sauron quest Nazgul freedom
Of course they will. All the more reason to accept peer reviewers, as they do the same thing. Why should criminals have an advantage?
You're right, of course. But the minute you release the source code a whole lot of security flaws might (will?) be found. They will get fixed but in the meantime, there will be many very exposed systems.
I'm not saying open source isn't better or that under the closed source system those bugs will not be found. I'm just trying to point out that changing to an open source system is difficult and it may cause a lot of problems.
I cannot see how to do such a change without making one vulnerable to these type of problems which might cause a consumer backlash.
Technology doesn't always equal progress. Douglas Coupland
Assuming that the attacker has source code does not translate into giving source code to every script kiddie on the Internet.
Assuming that everybody on the street might be carrying a handgun does not translate into giving everybody you meet on the street a handgun.
Adding additional barriers (i.e. not giving the source code out to everybody) does not impede the security of Netscape.
Of course they will. All the more reason to accept peer reviewers, as they do the same thing. Why should criminals have an advantage?
Unless a piece of software is released under an OpenSource(tm) license, and mechanisms are in place for peer-review to result in rapid fixes (i.e. there is a body accepting open submissions, etc.) the public release of the source code DOES represent a security risk.
What you say here is not quite accurate. The software does not have to be released under and open source license to retain security, and there need be no body to accept (code) submission. At minimum, we would like:
It's sort of an all-or-nothing situation.
Not at all. What I've outlined above is clearly not Open Source, but it can improve security.
Regardless, the silliness of Novell's statement is that they imply security through obscurity is inherently better than open peer review, which has been proven time and again to be false.
"Novell will use open-source publishing when it makes sense," says Brian Faustin, Novell's director of product marketing for NetWare. "It doesn't make sense for the network operating system because we need to maintain our value-add through security and reliability features. Our customers don't want us to give away source code."
First, I've never heard of any licensee of any software that would be *unhappy* if they got source with it, quite the contrary... and I don't believe "open source" implies "give away source".
Second, I don't see how customers having source could decrease reliability (except versus attacks, which is really a security issue). And availability of source has a record of improving security and reliability via peer-review; what Netware exploits I have seen did not appear to involve more than interface knowledge, and in some cases would likely have had one-line fixes.
But I'm sure everyone that agrees with me has heard all this before.
Java: the COBOL of the new millenium.
In this sort of instance, the typical script kiddie really wouldn't know what to do with the source...
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
It depends, on UNIX systems if the programmer used the correct data types, then all it should take is a recompile. Now if winsock is anything like the rest of windows then the programs all use int, or something of the sort, and it's going to be ugly for windows programmers.
-matt
Actually, correctly written Linux apps linked against glibc-2.1 are already somewhat IPv6 okay.
This tagline is wrong. Maybe all translucent glittering, but what about opaque faceted reflective surfaces?
This is nice. Does anyone know of a brief, not-too-technical history of Linux and Open Source? I keep looking for things to show people that don't understand "what all the fuss is about."
Grant
--globalnap.net, product of pure caffeine--
Goodness gracious.... Here's a post that only the brave dare answer. :)
;)
Ok, I'll take a shot and everyone else can dogpile me for all the stuff I leave out and get wrong.
If you could get a complete distribution in a single file, it would be a pretty huge file. You can probably get a disk image via FTP of most distributions (Red Hat, Debian, Slackware, etc.) Burn the image to CD-ROMs or copy it to an NFS mount and you're set.
If I Remember Correctly, in many cases it's also possible to boot off an install floppy and do your install via FTP from the distributor's site.
I suspect this post may result in several, "just buy/order CDs" responses. Honestly, I have to agree. A CD distro is a cheap/fast/easy way to get started. At the very least, it gets you a working OS quickly. It also comes in handy when a friend wants to install Linux, too.
Personally, I usually install a scratch system from CDs, recompile the kernel with my networking and hardware options, then start downloading the latest kernel, utilities, etc. This way, I'm able to work with the system while I'm updating it.
This advice is solely based on my humble experience, so take it for what it's worth. Do have fun, though.
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
translation- zero objects.
I think what he meant was that the VFS layer is not 64-bit clean on 32-bit systems. I know I've seen posts claiming that for this reason XFS won't be very useful on 32-bit systems.
--
There is a fine line between stupidity and insanity. I should know, I'm standing on it.
People aren't predicting the death of Unix as loudly as they did awhile back.
But "Preformance Computing" hasn't changed it's name back to Unix Review either.
Seems as long as we keep up the sarcasm and refuse to swallow the shit like good little citizens, Linux will rule.
When the last ember of the last flame war is extinguished and we start giving speeches like those found in Microsoft Press Publications (remember this the next time you read something like "For the purpose of learning C++, you must have a compiler. MS Visual Studio may be a good purchase), it's over.
The ship sank. Get over it. (This sig was cut out from another's shirt and painstakingly hand-posted)
We do not expect IS departments to take more platform responsibility. We expect them to get support contracts from a competent support firm. IS departments can expect to get better support out of Linux (and other open source software) because OSS demolishes the support monopoly.
You can only provide so much support for a piece of software without having the source code in your hands. If you find a bug, you can only fix it if you have the source code. With proprietary software, only the software vendor itself has that code, and thus it is the only truly competent support organization. If you really need a package to run, your chain of support must go to the vendor. If you don't get support from the vendor, you get support from someone who gets support from the vendor. If you don't like the support you get, you either live with it, or change support by changing vendors.
Every proprietary software firm is a monopoly in the support market for its own software.
With Linux, anybody with skills and a 486 can fix Linux bugs. You can support Linux to the hilt without selling Linux. There is no Linux support monopoly. The competition creates low-cost, competent support contractors.
--The basis of all love is respect
Please help me understand:
"...Another strength of NetWare 5 is NetWare Directory Services (NDS) version 8, which plays a lead role in the NetWare 5 success story..."
"...Windows 2000 (NT 5) will include Active Directory, Microsoft's version..."
*** So, what does Linux have to compete with these
directory services?
Novel Claims it's directory holds a Billion Objects, and Micro$oft seven million objects, ***What about Linux?
-Bob OConnor
It even more obviously points out the fact that hiding your source code doesn't mean that crackers won't see it. It is a fatal flaw in your argument that you fail to recognize this fact.
Many people who do not generally subscribe to the open-source model for all software understand its value for cryptography. Your attempted counterargument is unsupported and, I strongly suspect, insupportable. If you can come up with a solid counterargument to the accepted view, that would be interesting. However, merely making an assertion and citing irrelevant evidence does not constitute such an argument.
Indeed it is...and I am not aware of any respected security authority within it who supports your views.
Your patronizing tone is inappropriate for someone who has displayed no understanding of security theory.
--
Some keywords for the NSA in the Lord of the Rings universe: One Ring bind find Sauron quest Nazgul freedom
Linux has NIS+
I found it on a website, but you can check page 265 of "the road ahead" to be sure.
He just made a big mistake and was thinking about factorising large numbers in their prime factors, shich really would be a breakthrough and would invalidate a big amount off the cryptography used today (RSA being the most obvious example).
Sometime people make big mistake so you can laugh at them... but sometime you ARE this people and that's less funny
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates,
Oh, come on! Did he really write that?
As much as I cringe to stand up for Bill, he's
alright in his statement -- factoring a prime
involves exactly that -- provably asserting that
a number has exactly two factors, just like factoring any other whole, prime or nonprime.
In a sense "guaranteeing" that a number is prime,
is the same thing as factoring it.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Well, I wouldn't say "rewriting", that's a bit strong. All that will be needed is a few changes here and there, very few networking apps actually do much ip-address-length-dependent stuff.
RSA's stuff is very secure because people know the alogorithm. People are able to examine it and find any flaws, and the usually they tell other people about those flaws and it gets fixed. DES had some features that allowed it to be easily cracked but they were fixed because everyone had the algorithm. Cryptology is where the Open Model began.
AT&T had analog networks through the sixties. A fellow by the nickname of Captain Crunch (I won't mention his real name because I'm not positive of it) drove them, almost singlehandedly, to digital networks.
His claim to fame was he could use a whistle from a cereal box (hence his nickname) to break into the phone network and get free long distance phone calls.
He was eventually caught and arrested. Instead of hiring him to debug the system, AT&T insisted on prosecuting him. He was jailed. His fellow inmates made him an offer he couldn't refuse, and he ended up teaching the whole world how to cheat analog phone systems. In self defense, AT&T had to innovate or die.
Kevin should have been hired as a peer reviewer. Heaven knows Sun needs a good combing over. Instead, he'll be teaching cracking classes in prison, and Sun will be the easiest thing to kill. They messed up.
Maybe the point to remember about Garter Group is that Large Corporations _do_ buy their research(opinions), and act upon it. Therefore they do have an impact on the spread of Linux and MS products. What is the general opinion about Meta Group?
Hey, It is my opinion, otherwise someone else would have said it.
The exact same article is on the front page of the "Puget Sound computer user". In fact I haven't gotten PSCU for months and just decided to pick up a copy on my lunch break. What an amazing coincidence.
*Condense fact from the vapor of nuance*
Ooops, the above was in error. Substitute Netscape with Netware.
LLseak is standard.. Maby sun can't understand that.. I dunno
Perhaps you could enlighten me as to the nature of VFS...
/var/log/all for VFS gives a bunch of stuff like:
/var/log/all | wc -l counts 297 lines, and the uptime is only about a day (I just got back to school after taking some time off to work. God I love being back on ethernet.)
I run on a 32bit arch (kernel 2.2.8) and grep'ing through
Jun 2 17:46:43 frank kernel: VFS: Disk change detected on device fd(2,0)
Jun 2 21:21:36 frank kernel: VFS: Disk change detected on device ide1(22,0)
grep VFS
Seems like the VFS layer is alive and kicking on my intel box.
?
This sig is false.
There is a difference between "factoring a prime number" (which is a no-brainer), and "using factoring to determine whether a particular number is a prime number" (which is the costly part). The question is, should we be nice to the III-man and assume that the latter was what was really meant? :-)
What's the implication? That Novell's security would be reduced if they gave away source code?
That sounds like a certain discredited theory of security to me.
--
Some keywords for the NSA in the Lord of the Rings universe: One Ring bind find Sauron quest Nazgul freedom
"The obvious mathematical breakthrough would be development of an easy way to factor large prime numbers." Bill Gates, The Road Ahead, Viking Penguin (1995)
Oh, come on! Did he really write that?
(What's his problem? I can factor large prime numbers in my head. (As long as you guarantee me it's prime.))
-- Alastair
That article seems kind of old.... given that it refers to W2k being a year away when it should be out in 4 months (according to some reports, Oct. 6). Can anybody shed some light on this?
-----
"A guy from Microsoft asked for my autograph, so I signed it, 'Dear Bill, thanks for the support, ASSHOLE!'" -- Emimem
Seriously, though, you don't have to buy a tech-support contract. If you have someone who has the know-how to read the source and understand it, you can do your tech support in-house and save money on a tech-support contract. (You'll still be paying the salary of your in-house employee, of course, but one person will probably be able to handle several pieces of software in that respect). And, (warning! Generalizations ahead!) since open-source software usually tends to be of a higher quality than proprietary software, you won't need as much technical support anyway.
As for the worldview/religion aspect of it, well, most long-time Open Source advocates do admit exactly that. Consider the fact that the emacs vs. vi flamewars are usually referred to as "religious wars", for example. (ObFlameBait: Down with bloatware! Long live vi! ;->)
-----
The real meaning of the GNU GPL:
"The Source will be with you... Always."
It seems all the unix guys have IPv6 implimentations of some kind. Novell are 'developing' one, and supposedly Windows 2000 will have it, though I'm not sure. Not sure what the status with Apple is either, though.
Besides, since some of your apps (everything that assumes IP address is 32 bit) will need re-writing to make use of it I don't think it's going to become a really important feature anytime soon...
I dunno about IPv6 for the other unix guys, but there is a Sun provided IPv6 patch available for Solaris, and has been around since 1997 - for Solaris 2.5. Such a patch apparantly works on Solaris 7 too, though the web page doesn't say - it's bit outa date with regards to OS versions. Anybody know what the case is for Irix, and the other big boys? Besides, last I heard IPv6 hadn't even been completed yet, and I have no idea how long it'll be until it's being used significantly - ie I think bringing up IPv6 is a bit redundant when talking about current NOSs.
I wasn't particularly impressed by this article. Could have been better in a couple of ways (in some ways it seemed to have re-hashes from other articles going on about Netware VS Windows), and besides, we've seen so much similar articles it's getting boring... ^-^
PS Before someone asks, IPv6 is to replace IPv4 sometime and give us 128 bit IP addresses, instead of 32 bit. To put it simply.
What if the person did work for the company AND teach classes on his own personal time? What type of situation would the company be in now?
-- The intelligence on this planet is a constant, but the population is growing. --
Another article about how Linux is taking over the server market on the Internet. Interpreted by Slashdot readers, for some reason, as having something, anything, to do with the desktop market.
That much is obvious. I suspect that they like to think they can drive industry standards rather than simply report on them. I've long since decided that anything coming from the Gartner Group is worthless.