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RS/6000 Linux Box
According to Infoworld, later this year, IBM will release an RS/6000
machine capable of running Linux, as
well as AIX. While the article mostly discusses AIX, it says that IBM
expects Linux to be very popular with ISPs and ASPs. Let's hope so. What's the architechture count up to now, anyways?
You don't seem to have been banned yet... I doubt you will be. It's a bunch of small minded flamers who insist on flaming everyone who disagrees with linux. I do agree that it is them who screw everything up. And don't assume it's a bunch of teenagers...
Worked on this in the late 80's (AIX on a PS2 model 80 or something was one of my 2nd Nix) did it ever see that light of day?????
You know , it has been a long time since I have heard someone say something like that about IBM .
These are heady times , my friends .
A number of ways to look at this post from one who himself was nitpicking.
:)
"Your moron" could be interpretted as "Hey Justin, I'm your moron."
Or did this English genius with the absolute authority on the word "anyways" goof up himself (gasp)?
Maybe he meant "You're a moron" (naw, he's too nice for that), or has fat fingers and meant to type You're More On, or maybe he is what he calls - a true moron. Let's ponder on this while we take a spiritual crap and think of new words we can use to iritate the anyways out of this fella.
Anyways, I think the English language could benefit from a few new words.
You say you want companies who derive some of their income through
commercial software to embrace what is fundamentally anti-commercial
software. Please consider how big a hump to get over this would have to
be for them. The FSF wants to destroy all intellectual property. IP is
critically important to IT companies. There are plenty of companies
who seen Richard Stallman as their enemy. This is a fair viewpoint,
since rms really is out to get them.
It's a trick to say that the box *can* run Linux. So what? So can just about everything. I hate fucking marketing lies.
It's easy to be a nit-picker in a world so filled with nitwits.
Get a fucking life, DEWD! Nobody use's correct spelling anymore, specialy on computers!
Remember IBM doesn't do anything unless there is money to be made. The Monterey project is really geared to "high-end" computers with 8 more processors. This is where the money is at. Moreover, these are the types of computers that they would like to sell to the Government and then business ISP's. Particularily, since Linux running with beowulf has started pushing them out of the gov. research labs and for a cheaper price.
They are perfectly willing to let linux fight Msoft at the low-end since there isn't much money at the price they would have to sell stuff at. In addition, for a company with a reputation to preserve, it doesn't look to nice if they fight Msoft and are in the press all the time. They will let the linux fanatics do all the fighting for them. In the end it helps keep their image and improves their prospects of selling high-end machines.
The same goes for Sun, SCO or anybody else.
So don't be surprised when the Open-software fad starts fadding, and all these players start jumping ship since it isn't fashionable to be associated with the free software movement then.
innumeracy sucks
FYI, I guesstimated and specced out eBay's required configuration with IBM equipment. They're currently running on multiple UltraSPARC Enterprise 10,000's. (Yes, 64 processors, many gigs of memory, etc.)
It would require replacing their precious Suns with a single 24 node IBM RS/6000 SP2 system, using 18 Silver Wide nodes, and 6 Silver Thick nodes. Load it up with ATM and QFE connections, and make sure that the webservers can fill those up, and problems solved.
But everyone wants Sun, because Sun is owned by AOL and claims to have been around longer. Nevermind the fact that IBM is the recognized world leader in ERP applications, has the fastest memory bus on earth. (>6GB/s on the S70 Advanced Server @ 262MHz. That's faster than a 21264.) Nevermind the fact that they do more ERP with the RS/6000, AS/400, and S/390 than Sun, Digital/Compaq, and Hitachi combined. Nevermind the fact that the RS/6000 SP and SP2 are all over the Top 500 Supercomputer list in *RETAIL* versions. Sun's more popular; let's use Sun! They're the Dot in Dot Com.
Sorry. IBM's the original Dot in Dot Com. The dot that goes right before the decimal places in any financial statement whatsoever. And money is necessary for that Com operation, Com being COMMERCE.
Somebody tell me when the world gets a clue. Till then, I think I'll stick to what works and not what's popular.
-RISCy Business | Rabid System Administrator and BOFH
your company here.
shelby != ford
I've got a 604e in my Amiga 4000, and I didn't buy it from Apple.. :)
Amiga - Back for the future!
I can tell you why people use Sun machines - because they have a reputation for being much more affordable than AIX boxes, which cost an arm and a leg.
(That's the lower end of the market explanation, anyway.)
According to CNN, Ebay crashed today, for the third time in a month. Are those Ebay folks for real, last time they said it was a failure of Sun software, on which their database runs? Anybody know what version of SunOS and Oracle or whichever database (Is SQLServer available for Solaris)? I thought I read somewhere that they use NT. Is that only for serving pages? Ebay needs to get this IBM box, that way they can blame it also, and piss off all the big iron makers one by one.
More reality checking from an AC.
There are IBM shops, Sun shops, HP shops, NT shops, and mixed
environments. Almost every place has a preference (or prejudice).
All of them will use other boxes, but that underlying preference
remains embedded in the culture.
In the real world, nobody gives a shit what OS they're using. They care
whether it works, if they have to get paged at home because the damn
thing went down again, if their business suddenly goes down and they
lost a whole lot of $$, and if the perceived cost/benefit is adequate.
Take eBay's weird outage. They're bound to Starfires...why? Because
their admins are comfy using Sun boxes. Well that's all and great,
but when it went down, it went down and cost 'em $3-5 mil. That's
a lot of money to lose for personal preference. Plus, they pissed off
their vendors, and now the admins are mocked by their peers (all it
took was a patch...bitch, moan, blah blah. Well, these admins are pros,
right? It's their job to keep up with this stuff).
So what's the point of this rambling? This: getting excited about IBM
releasing Linux is a lot like getting excited that general foods is
releasing yet another sugared cereal. It's ridiculous that people are
essentially saying "this cereal is so much better than that cereal". It's
more ridiculous that people are pushing linux as mission-critical.
OS/2 is mission-critical, and can stay up forever. My old timex
sinclair could have had an uptime that beats everything except
mainframes. Heck, calculators are more stable than most commercial
OSs.
Buy a clue. Or get the open-source version for free.
Maybe IBM intends to do is shore up the RS/6000 used market. Right now if you buy a used machine you still have to purchase a license from IBM to use AIX on it. This may be budget prohibitive(if it wasn't you would have gone with a new machine right?). But now you can buy that old RS/6000 and have an operating system to use on it that is within your price range.
It is really a stroke of genius on IBM's part. They can extend the usefullness of their machines, they open up more markets and compete on a broader range of clientele and they continue to sell parts for all those older boxs(like in the car industry, parts make up most of your profits) all the while not hurting their original new box market.
Joe
mailto://the_plague@earthlink.net
The article said the new boxes would be similar to the RS/6000 43P 150, which uses a PowerPC 604. Also, the Power3 uses the PowerPC ISA, so they're compatible.
Thanks for pointing out the Motorola MTX OEM PowerPC logic boards! I've integrated and maintained several MTX's running RISC/OS and am exceptionally pleased with the quality.
Far too few people know that there is an alternative to RS/6000 (at the high-end) and Apple (at the low-end). What's more, the MTX series is PReP/CHrP-compliant (something that Apple once endorsed but now dropped) and accepts most PCI peripherals without complaint.
If far more people were to request the MTX, the absurd $4K+ price will eventually go down - it's supply and demand. This happened with Digital Alpha a few years ago - now many third-party vendors offer 21164A PC164LX-based _systems_ for under $3K and are likely outselling branded Digital-Compaq Alpha boxes, at least to Linux/NetBSD enthusiasts.
~AC
Actually, your Ruffian (PC164UX) is a 21164A-based Alpha - the 21064A was included on the OEM PC64-275 Cabriolet. Very fast machine though, and much faster than the 21064A! :)
I admin RS6K boxes, yes, they are fast and stable and no, I don't like AIX either.
Deleted
Probabely be easier to go back to the source and work on getting linux's SMP support working better, and on more CPUs
It sounds like a desparate attempt to apply Linux where the hardware just is too powerful for Linux to make sense.
I haven't taken too close a look at how Sun does this, but what you suggest has already been done. It would depend on whether or not the RS box uses multiple motherboards (which I can't imagine it not doing so) I know that a Starfire can have up to 8 domains across all of it's motherboards. The domains to not share memory, AFAIK.
In the immortal words of Socrates, who said; 'I drank what?'
bah, is that all? my 386 DX/40 can do that and make toast.
Far longer than that considering the trivial bandwidth problem of a large part of the world's population not having personal access to a telephone line yet.
Wake up, geeks. The whole world isn't wired yet. Not even for voice communications.
Uhm, I think you hit the wrong forum. To the best of my knowledge, we're talking about platform support for Linux - specifically the RS/6000. The Desktop forum must be next door - just past the fellas kicking that dead horse... :)
It does seem like a lot of money to spend, just to run Linux.
You'd be suprised at the quality of morons who start ISPs these days. I recently asked one why she chose to use NT... "because a 14 yr. old hacker told me unix is not secure."
Yes, In Greenfield Mass, I was looking, along with a small contingent of GEECS admins, for an ISP for our server, and found that two of the places were run by x-cons. We needed a permanent connection, and when we asked one of the guys about it, he said he logged people off by hand after two hours, saying something along the lines of 'you can't possibly need to be on longer than that in a day.'
He bore a federal penitentiary tattoo.
OFTC: By the community, for the community
but when will i get os/2 on this puppy?
They are working on it as soon as the Microchannel bus is debugged.
er yes....
:)
Just not of humans.
I believe that's pretty close to the estimated number of planetary ants.
OFTC: By the community, for the community
This brings something to mind:
Everyone on Earth would need an IP address to connect to that server...there are only 4228250625 possible IP addresses in the world, and slightly over 6000000000 people in the world. Methinks you don't have to worry. Just a thought.
OFTC: By the community, for the community
Ici au Québec, nous avons l'Office de la Langue Francaise (The Language Police).
:)
This government incarceration department enforces all public and commercial signs containing French twice as large or in twice the quantity of any other language (though only English is ever fined). Anyways, that's just those finnicky Quebec nationalists....
OFTC: By the community, for the community
Ok, IBM, now that you went to the clue store lets kick it up a notch. Get Lotus on the Linux Bandwagon, Notes, Smartsuite, the whole ball of wax. Then get the boys down at DB2 to fully port and support DBS to linux. Now, get the folks over at Tivoli (remember them? they still work for you) to get off the ball and support Linux for the enterprise management tools. Tell the folks over at the Notebook shop to write Linux drivers. Now, I can go to my boss, and say, Hey, IBM supports Linux, I can get a a full office suite, a real enterprise RDBMS plus Enterprise management tools. Ya know, no one ever got fired for buying IBM :-)
Can't sleep, clowns will eat me....
And since you're specifying many machines with the same processor but a different maker, you may as well count the 100,000 different x86 clone permutations.
Right, I always get these two numbers wrong ...
There is a difference between creative anti-spelling efforts, and subliterate sloth spelling.
case you didnt notice, lotus IS porting to linus...
-- your knees hurt, don't they?
dont be a nob. i dont need to spell to program. the people who spell best program worst.
so that's like 6 quadrillion. Not 388 billion. Blah.
Some see the glass as half full, some see it as half empty, but the only important thing is that there is a glass. - B. Lawrence Titzer, 1999
Linux runs on nearly everything in some form or other, except fot the arcane MCArchitecture (found in PS/2 boxes by IBM) and pre 386 x86 computers. It also has a small issue with Mac classics and Osborne computers. (I believe that it won't work on a Vic20 or TI-99-4a either. :) )
OFTC: By the community, for the community
a few billion could be sitting behind proxies...
-- your knees hurt, don't they?
I don't htink ants browse the web.
flagshit? now thats great endorsement.
err..OS/2 sucks rocks. it may/may not be mission critical but its like a weird version of unix+dos hacked together by a 2 year old. OS/2 is dying anyway..if you had said AIX, your post might have actually made an impression on the rest of us.
Spelling is an integral part of writing, and writing is an integral part of communication. What you seem to be suggesting is that the best programmers are the worst communicators.
Any chance of a Linux port to the older models ? (Power based, like the 355 that I have).
It would be nice. I look forward to the day when I can get a PPC system that I don't have to buy from Apple.
I'd love to learn more about the RS/6000. They are supposed to be solid boxes. And, stable as it may be, I've met few people who like using AIX.
More architectures is certainly a good thing.
--Lenny
this raises the question yet again of Linux's high-end scalability. the box in the article is a lower-end model. there was no mention of linux with the higher-end (24 processor) model. we all know linux is slightly behind in this category (compared with other UNIXs), it would be nice if IBM contributed to this effort... it's a nice thought.
-- adraken
While this is great to hear, has anyone else heard the rumours that IBM is abandoning AIX on workstations in favor of NT? Especially their high-end graphics workstations (to me, AIX isn't really recognized for this, but IBM makes the cards, so...). AIX would just be a server OS, and all of IBM's high-end workstation line would run NT... Unsubstantiated, of course. [And I'm posting it anonymously cause I'd rather not associate with it login name.]
Called Pizzazz, the upcoming box -- now in beta testing and due sometime in October
Now that we see IBM selling Pizzazzs is microsoft going to buy Pizza hut?
= 3.4 BILLION, dude.
Shit, my K6-2 running Slackware 3.4 can serve up that many in 112 days.
I agree though, it's wasted on static HTTP serving.
Okay...some IBM really seems to have jumped on the clue bus. I hope they get the $$$$ right. That's the only way I see most ISPs making that move. The competition has driven the price down so much (You can get unlimited monthly access for $9.99 per month here in Cleveland) that I'm guessing most of these guys can't afford to spend big bucks on servers anymore.
OTOH I can't imagine too many IPSs going with NT on Intel if they can get an RS6000 for similar bucks. GO BIG BLUE !!!!
Amiga is going to be shipping their OS on the RS/6000.
Running in a 12-way configuration the system delivered a SPECweb96 benchmark of 40,161 http ops/sec, besting Hewlett-Packard's HP 9000 N-Class server by 66 percent.
This is pathetic - It would take this box over 112 days to service an http request from every man, woman and child on the planet earth. This just isn't going to cut it. I need a machine that can server a number of pages/day greater than the population of France. This shabby IBM box falls short by almost a million.
Seriously, If you use one of those beauties to serve static web pages, you need your head examined. It's like using the USS Missouri for island hopping. I'd like to see TPC/H numbers though - data warehousing is one of the few apps that could use this kind of horsepower.
--Shoeboy
I hate to be a wet blanket, but I don't see any real motivation for a $30k linux box.
While I'm happy to see support from IBM on this, RS/6k's running Linux are not new. Lower end models have been capable of running LinuxPPC (and possibly hiTech pacific's and YellowDog Linux's versions, which are based on LinuxPPC) for quite a while -- at least since last September, when I started to care about LinuxPPC as I purchased a mac, and probably long before. According to linuxppc.com, the following RS/6k models are supported:
IBM
RS6000 (PowerPC-based), 830, 850, 40P, Nobis, INDI
Additionally, PReP, CHRP, an dBeBoxen are supported.
Now we just have to finish Mozilla and nobody will need XT-based computers anymore.
BTW, this is one of the advantages of libre software...
... 388,629,964,800 ???
Although IBM may support linux on the RS6k, this article sure doesn't say that. "Linux-oriented bundled solutions" is usually market speak for "we'll try to make the machines play nicely with your existing and future linux systems" not "we'll offer linux with tha machine". I think joins the BeOS/Amiga article in the category of "we misread that" posts. Two in one day.
Don't you think you are being a bit melodramatic?
It's open source. Anyone can develop for Linux. Obviously you are not interested in making a contribution to the Linux community, so I guess those 'dumb teenagers' are the ones doing all the work while you sit back and criticize.
ok, so it will run linux... big deal...
so does my toaster...
but when will i get os/2 on this puppy?
:)
"some people have too much freedom" - george dubya bush, facist, err republican presidential hopeful and domain name squ
I thought the Power PC chips were just scaled down versions of the RS/6000 instruction set designed to be cheap for use on PeeCee type systems.
We've been using RS/6000's at work for years. They are ludicriously overpriced machines. Now we're buying PC-based linux boxen. You just can't beat the bang for the buck, and even better, we don't have to deal with IBM -- possibly one of the most annoying organizations we've had the displeasure of doing business with. We can't even open a box and install/swap a peripheral without voiding our maintenance agreements! To me, one of the best things about Linux is that it makes the commercial Unices (and expensive proprietary hardware) unnecessary for most applications. Show me an RS/6000 with a bang/buck ratio similar to a Dell PowerEdge, and I might care.
Okay, I detect some duplicity here. I'll conveniently skip the blaringly stupid title, unless he's proclaiming himself Justin's Moron. Possibly, our over-eager friend here with the big fat pencils and the Spider Man lunchbox just learned the meaning of "anyway" today in pre-school and is showing off his incredible knowlegde of the rules surrounding "anyway". Okay, I'll overlook his lack of knowledge about asses - they're extremely intellegent animals and many stake their lives on these beasts as they scale the walls of the Grand Canyon - most definately not stupid. What perplexes me is that he says "Anyways" is not a word then says it is anyway. Well, is it or is it not? Or are you, by your divine authority making "Anyways" a word, anyway. And finally, I'm confused as to who he thinks Justin is. I've heard of delusions of grandeur, but delusions of someone else's grandeur? Is he Justin or Jesus or an intelligence-challenged ass (check your ears Justin. You don't have a craving for hay, do you? Any messiah complex happening in there?)? Well, you never know anymore. Hmmm, for a nitpicker, he sure did open a can of worms on himself, anyways.
I have seen a lot of confusing posts, so this is what I understand from the article, feel free to correct me.
The article seems to say that basically, the machine will ship with and run AIX, but CAN run Linux. This means that they are not dropping support for their OS, but rather diversifying the range of OSes that may be used on their systems. It is obvious that the demand for linux is much greater than that for AIX, so IBM are adding value to the machine by adding that support. It does not mean that IBM are going to be particularly active in Linux development, and I wonder just how much work they have/had to do for Linux to work anyway. I don't think its a really really noble thing for them to have done, how many other platforms only give you one choice of OS? They're only doing the smart thing.
x86 has a 16 cpu limit.
Someplace I've got a copy of a bootlog of David S(parc) Miller booting Linux on a megacpu (64?) sun starfire.
Performance above 4 cpus is not that hot for some (I/O bound) apps.
The benchmark test must've been rigged by Microsoft and performed in Redmond. ;>
That's why it's so silly to use horsepower like this for static webpages.
Oh darn! I was going to get that thing out of the closet and use it for something useful.
:-)
:)
That thing was pretty cool though, for its time. Too bad I used up all its 16K ram trying to write a program for it once.
I must have been like 12 years old back then
Ummm...
If it's true that "a bunch of dumb teenagers" are now getting involved in the Linux project, I fail to see how their work could possibly affect the operating system's technological merit. If you refuse to run Linux because you disagree with what it stands for (or what you think it stands for), that's reasonable. However, saying that Linux used to be a good OS and has deteriorated to a poor OS doesn't make sense. For starters, older versions are still available.
If you have specific objections to certain aspects of Linux, you're free to change them. That's the beauty of open source. You're also free to pick your favorite distribution - if you think Red Hat has sold out and become too commercial, you're free to choose Slackware, which has very little commercial support and many of the Linux newbies haven't even heard of.
Linus did say that if Linux had 90% market share it would become as bad as Windows. However, last I checked, there wasn't much danger of that, especially as more and more alternative operating systems are growing (really looking forward to Mac OS X Consumer!).
Does anyone else have further comments?
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
yeah, smit is kewl!
I still don't get logical volume management in linux straight.
I'm not joking. The innards of those boxes are a mess. They're *GREAT* if what you need is basically a cheap server. If you want a reliable server, look elsewhere.
Compare the reliability & performance of one of those to an IBM NetFinity server. I think you'll find the NetFinity's slightly higher price is acceptable.
-Stu
ASCI Blue Pacific is not an S/390. It's an
RS/6000 SP using message passing libraries.
http://www.llnl.gov/asci/
I didn't say it was satire. I said people misread and misinterpreted what was said in both cases.
Actually, the only CPU limit in x86 is dependant on the motherboard. The Intel Sandia super computer is a 9000 Pentium Pro computer.
You know what?
Even though one of my goals in life is to get Linux running on every RS/6000 there is, you won't catch me touching this Model 150 reissue running Linux.
IBM's jumping the gun. They're quick to point out it can transfer 6.4GB/s. (one of the slower RS/6000's. The S80 is rumoured to be breaking 16GB/s, and I've had my S70's at work moving nearly 7GB/s via multiple 100bFL and QFE.) but it's pointless.
Linux is nowhere near ready for the RS/6000. The TCP/IP stack and various NIC drivers are so poorly written and/or implemented, that you actually can't go anywhere NEAR that. Linux just can't do that.
Let's get down to specs. The 'Pizzaz' is basically a reissue of the 43P Model 150 (7043). What's the 7043 got in it?
PowerPC 604e @ 375MHz, 128M to 1G of ECC, 5 PCI slots, 4.5G to 54.6G of disk via an onboard SCSI-UW controller, onboard sound, keyboard, mouse, tablet, ethernet, serial, and parallel.
That's in the TOWER configuration. Put it into a 2U rack, and here's what you HAVE to lose in that single box; 54.6G won't fit in a single 2U case. Nor will 5 PCI slots, unless they go with a PC-style ATX 2U case. To meet NEBS compliance, I suspect they'll have to scrap other things as well, but only on internal expansion. Either way, you end up with somewhat less of a machine.
Now, what're the possible gains? Well, 604e's will do 400MHz without any complaints; I'm running dual 604e/400MHz processors on a development machine. It's NOT an RS/6000. It's a Motorola MTX+-based system. But it runs AIX, so it's a similar enough test bed. The onboard ethernet can be replaced with non-proprietary single, and quad fast ethernet cards, like the Digital DE21x40 based ones that are everywhere. But then you lose some PCI slots. IBM will probably put some sort of video onboard, to save space. But that takes the system further away from single-point-of-failure. The LED operator panel gives you a single point to determine most failures, but the numbers are not always exact. (888 - boot medium not found. Why, it doesn't say.)
The Model 150 is a workstation. Not a server. IBM's basically trying to turn one of my favourite workhorses (I had two on my desk at one point) into something it just can't be; a server. The Model 150 is a workstation designed for heavy duty graphics (ie; CAD/CAM) and programming work. It's not a server. If you want a server, look at the F40 (and try to ignore the disaster that is Linux SMP on PowerPC) or F50.
Sure, maybe it's something for the ISPs, but for what it's going to cost, you may as well get a Motorola MTX+. For about $4k, you get dual Digital DE21240's onboard, dual 604e/400MHz, onboard SCSI-UW, and 7 PCI slots, all in a configuration you can put in a PC ATX case and mix-and-match standard PC parts with.
-RISCy Business | Rabid System Administrator and BOFH
your company here.
shelby != ford
I always believe firmly that the CPU limit is limited mainly from bus architecture. Motherboards can be built to take many CPU's, but using them on say a single bus gets riduculous as you approach 30 odd cpus for SMP. Well that was the case when I did parallel computing 2 years back.
Lets get back to onboard links on cpu's or make crossbar switches cheaper.
Brad
I hate to be a wet blanket, but I don't see any real motivation for a $30k linux box.
Because the same hardware with a proprietary Unix would likely be a $32k+ box.
The point is not to buy the hefty hardware just for the sake of running Linux, but rather to run Linux on the hefty hardware because it's more cost-effective that way.
---
DNA just wants to be free...
Part of the story I have heard is that IBM is working with a variety of people (or at least is negotiating with a lot of people to the same ends) to bring Linux PPC level with Linux Intel in terms of development. I would expect them to put a lot of in-house work into making sure the drivers, TCP/IP, etc. are up to speed as well as well. This would be step one in a multistep process of bringing Linux into their lineup progressively further as Linux matures.
There have even been stories (indicating exploration of alternatives if not definite plans) of actually taking AIX towards being Linux based. I.e., eventually taking a well tuned PPC friendly Linux and adding a lot of AIX-type admin tools, kick-ass complilers, etc., on top of it.
The PPC consortium brought IBM a second source on cup chips, and insight into Apple's lowest cost on the planet manufacturing technology.
Apple had horrendous overhead maintaining its software--essentially the same maintainance costs as M$, with 10% share of the market. Hence, its computers were expensive. Maybe going to BSD will eventually reduce this mx cost for apple, and going to Linux will reduce costs terrifically for IBM.
What I see is that IBM seems to be toying with a business plan that follows Apple into betting the ranch on open/free OS's. Each will make their own value added contribution, in the form of GUI and interconnectivity tools, admin tools, etc. Each is becomming a hardware + service company (as the OS overhead drops, hardware prices should become more competitive with Intel, etc., prices, although I suspect neither has any intention of bottom fishing the market--the certain path to bankruptcy.) IBM is just being a little more conservative than Apple in this regard, but then it is not so dearly in need of major changes at this instant as Apple was.
Unlike some companies we all could name, IBM's take on this is pretty simple: Customers want Linux on RS boxes, so they're expanding their support for it.
Steven, Senior Technology Editor, Sm@rt Reseller
In a word, no.
NT is going to be playing a bigger role on PC-based systems (sorry OS/2ers), but AIX still rules on Power workstations.
Steven, Senior Technology Editor, Sm@rt Reseller
I'm not sure how much money an ISP spends on hardware but I suspect that the box is probably not their biggest cost (except for the big eCommerce hosting sites). I'd like to see a breakdown but I suspect salaries, communications, consumables (disks, software etc) then CPU in that order. The advantage of Linux over AIX is that there is a significantly larger portion of the population familiar with Linux, hence the learning curve reduces and thus hireability of talent improves. Also, it would be nice to get people who have a clue about balanced systems, especially I/O bottlenecks!
As for the number of systems out there, off the top of my head
- SGI offer nice balanced systems with good real-application/price performance and from memory one outfit also offers mips-based linux systems.
- HP with their PA-RISC have solid engineering, though probable a little pricey for just ISP work,
- Compaq Alphas are supposed to be good file/web servers
- Your standard Sun Sparc covers the low-mid range server market quite nicely
- El Cheapo Intel box
- Apple servers
For a large ISP, rock-solid reliability, good service and security, decent software, plus someone to sue in case things goes really wrong are probably more important than the actual price of a box.
Think of the system, not the box
LL
Linux, it's nice fun for a better acceptance Linux needs provide a better desktop GUI.
http://TheWebCowboy.com -- Internet technology in one page.
Posted by Justin:
Does it matter?
And I think you meant "You're"
...include 64-bit CPU, excellent memory bandwidth and of course extreme FPU performance inherent in POWER - PowerPC.
;-)
You can attain all of this (albeit with somewhat lower memory bandwidth) with Digital (now Compaq) Alpha. Third-party Alpha-based systems and OEM logic boards are close to x86 prices and run the Linux kernel very well (the Alpha port is quickly attaining parity to x86).
Admittedly, for a web server serving static pages, either the POWER/PPC or the Alpha is probably overkill
~AC
Wow, that would be kewl boxen to run linux with oracle8i and OWAS. Since IBM came from the mainframes, these machines are known for their Transactions Per Second.
I bet the Bull will follow suit.
I find it odd that you criticize the original poster for using a slang word, and then completely fuck up the subject (title) of you post, unless you are
Justin's moron, YOU'RE not very intelligent.
Have fun,
Nate
--shaking my head in disbelief
Certainly a bit more than 5.
On the other hand, who cares, as long as it run on the platforms you use?
Uhm.. Are you implying that IBM doesn't use Power chips any more? I believe it wasn't more than a few months since they last announced a new version.
I'm sitting on a 633 MHz "Ruffian" Alpha w/ 256MB RAM. I would never deploy it as a server though. The speed of the box is really amazing.
With bladeenc, it takes about 45 minutes to encode 630MB ripped cd data in 128kbit/s mode. I think that is fairly good, since this box has only the "cheap" 21064a cpu (cheap is relative - the motherboard + cpu package was priced at about $1300 when I bought it).
After I was able to convince myself that Linux presented me with a stable development OS for my work at home on my own stuff, I then found myself happily chatting away at work about the pros & cons of using Linux. And the novel point of view of the Linux developers with regard to copyright/ownership.
The response at work reminded me to keep within what I call "commercial mode". By which I mean that I try to let people know what I consider is significant, in very un-excited tones, & when they bring in inappropriate cost-accounting, or try to demonstrate that key people need to be convinced with tailor-made arguments, or some such other expenditure of precious energy, I just shrug, signalling that the matter can slide, & finish with: "if I am right a bandwagon will eventually come around, the execs will jump on it, with or without detailed argument". Bandwagons being like that.
This is, admittedly, not an approach which strongly advocates Linux. That is because I want it advocate itself. (I tire quickly of advocacy). When the competition starts using it then my not-so-little commercial organisation will most likely jump on the bandwagon too.
It appears then that IBM is jumping upon the bandwagon. Even if only by way of press release. And I really don't care. But I suppose this means that at some point soon somebody from upstairs, being IBM aware, will come around telling us of their Big Decision & their Bright New Idea. Market driven, of course.
(My first ever post. Why is this comment box so small?)
Yes, Linux/PPC has run on many RS/6000 boxes for quite a while. But the story is longer than that - it's not just "low end" boxes. Infact, the really low end may never run Linux.
A lot of people don't seem to realize, the PowerPC is more IBM's cost cutting triumph than it is Motorola's technological triumph.
For ages, IBM has been using the Power archetecture in RS/6000 systems. The problem? Too freakin expensive to build systems with several (like 64) processors.
Enter Motorola with an ageing, dead-end CISC design, and tons of experience with low-cost design and manufacture.
Getting Apple to use the new, cheaper version of the Power line, the PowerPC, really made life a lot easier for IBM, who has based their high end workstations and mini's on PPC chips ever since. RS/6000, AS/400, you name it.
I'm frankly not sure what an S/390 like Pacific Blue uses - something else entirely, from all reports. (Or was it S/360? it's late, and I'm watching monstervision)
Anyway, just wanted to clear that up. Old Power-1 and Power-2 based boxes will probably never run anything but AIX.
This is just like television, only you can see much further.
The BeOS/Amiga piece was a satire. How is this a satire?
New IBM Hardware which can run IBM's new supported Linux distribution which will be supported by IBM running IBM/Lotus' flagshit product - Domino for Linux.
Personally I think this is great to expand the large enterprise acceptance, use and growth of Linux to far beyond any OS that is available today.
I don't really understand where they're going with this. They've got this massive project (Monterey) going to with SCO and Sequent to bring AIX to Intel boxes. Now they're putting Linux on RS/6000s? Strange.
Perhaps they're having trouble selling RS/6000s in to the ISP market and are hoping Linux will give them a way in. If I could get an ATX motherboard with a PPC for a decent price I might even go for it, but I certainly wouldn't pay the normal RS/6000 prices for one of these babies.
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
Actually your use of the word "Anyways" marks a numerical milestone after which a word becomes common enough to officially enter the language.
so, anyways...
congratulations
Anonymous Coward
Office Of Official English Language (Word Police)