HP to release 3 thin clients PCs

According to an Article in InfoWorld, HP will release next week a new family of thin client PCs. Out of the 3 models that they will release, 2 of them will be with an embedded Linux core (the L & X models, and the G model with MS Windows CE) and they'll include Netscape Navigator for browser-based access to Java programs as well as access to Windows applications. The X series also includes HP's ChaiVM embedded Java virtual machine, providing access to applications hosted on Unix and legacy servers. Oracle is also working on a thin client, so I think we will soon see some competition in the thin client area, where Linux will be getting much more attention, and more important - more Linux development. Who says competition is bad? :)

Comments

Re:Application Servers

[SoftwareJanitor]

If i'm not mistaken didn't MS actually buy the winframe technology from Citrix to put into terminal server?

Microsoft actually owns part of Citrix. But that didn't stop them from playing hardball with Citrix. They essentially strongarmed Citrix into giving them their technology, and the reason WinFrame only supports 3.51 is because Microsoft more or less forced Citrix to do so, to avoid competition with WTS, despite the fact that in many ways WinFrame has advantages over WTS.

Microsoft is deathly afraid that a rise in popularity of products such as WinFrame would jeopardize their ability to force fat clients (bloated with other Microsoft products) onto the desktop.

Re:What good are these ?

[Ross C. Brackett]

Here's what really bewilders me - If you were to take, say, an E-Machine, which currently reails for about $400, take out the CD-ROM, Hard Drive, USB, Sound Card and Modem, and what do you have? Essentially, a thin client which could retail for about $225-$275. Why don't companies just sell netbootable Linux-on-a-flashram x86 small-form-factoredboxes for ultra cheap? Would it not be the same thing as these $700 thinclients?

Application Servers

[eric2hill]

I've just been doing some research on Microshaft Windows NT Terminal Server and Citrix MetaFrame. For a SMALL 5 user installation (capped at 5 users, no more) I'm looking at $3500 in software alone. That's ridiculous. Are there any capabilities within linux to reduce this cost to the small business user? VMWare? WINE? Help!


Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large groups

Re:Application Servers

[tweek]

Let's see.

5 legal copies of vmware - $500 ( non commercial version)
5 legal copies of NT workstation (assuming you want nt workstation) $1345 (full version at $269 a copy you could skim $120 bucks if you just bought licenses on the remaining 4 copies)

Linux (only because I've never tried vmware on bsd via emulation) - free (or 1.99 per for a cheapbytes cd)

Grand total in software costs = $1845

Mind you this is all minus tax and the price on NT workstation I grabbed from an Insight catalog on the desk. This is the configuration a few of our users run. The only reason they use the vmware is for the office software or to run outlook with our shitty exchange server. But since I turned on loverly simap on the exhcange box they can read mail with netscape's mail client.
As far as hardware, vmware-able machiens should have a bit more power than a standard linux ws would but really memory is where the cost would come in. Machines with 128 megs could handle it fine. At least mine does.

Re:Celeron is cheaper

[cjc]

Random geeks sitting at home don't buy these things to play games or code. Big companies buy them to stick on clueless employees' desks so they can just "get the job done" instead of calling the IT department about their cup-holders being broken.

Re:What good are these ?

[Melkman]

An other advantage of these thin clients is that absence of harddisks and big fans really reduces the noise in an office. Last week I visited a company who did have HP winCE machines all over the place. Never have been in a quieter office and was less tired when I went home.

Call me cynical, but...

[rde]

The L and X series use an embedded Linux core and include Netscape Navigator for browser-based access to Java programs
Oooh, accessing java with Navigator. That'll be successful.

This is a milestone for Linux.

[Sun Tzu]

Embedded Linux on machines from one of the largest computer makers in the world. MS is not gonna like this...

What good are these ?

[hernick]

Considering that a normal PC is about the same price as those thin clients, what good are these ?

Why opt for a 700$ machine that can only act as a thin client when you can get a 1000$ PC that is quite a bit more powerful, and can do everything the thin client can ?

Couldn't they just take their weakest normal PC, remove the floppy and CD-Rom drives, and pre-install thin-client software ? It'd do the same thing, except it'd be equipped with a hard drive for caching... It'd have a faster processor... It'd be far more versatile.

Re:What good are these ?

[cdh]

Total Cost of Ownership.

If people can't mess around with their machines, then companies don't have to spend time fixing them. We're talking companies, not home users.

What do most "normal" workers need to do in an office? Word processing, spreadsheets, etc. If there is an office suite available (such as StarOffice), then that's all they need. No worries about people deleting system files, etc. Just reboot and get a new image.

Pricing seems screwy

[ez8]

The model with windows CE is priced between 500-600 dollars, while the linux ones are under 700.

VNC may help you!

[tilly]

It depends upon what you want to do. The basic problem you face here is that NT assumes single-user. If you don't want to use Terminal Server then you *will* need 5 copies of NT going. But here are some options.

If you really want to be able to throw the desktop remotely, look at VNC.

If the application that you are interested in can run on Linux (or has a Linux-friendly replacement), you can cheerfully install the application on one Linux box, run multiple copies of VNC server, and get the capabilities of NT Terminal Server with Citrix MetaFrame with the only software cost being the cost of the application. And your uptime will be better, bandwidth usage will be lower, and the result can be used from your choice of OS.

You don't even need VNC if you are willing to use it from a client that runs X-Windows. Any window can be thrown elsewhere. In a Linux environment *every* machine is the equivalent of NT Terminal Server. But unless you install software locally, Windows will not act as a client.

VMWare in Linux is mainly useful for dealing with a mixed Windows/Linux environment. With VNC you can throw a window elsewhere. However it will show up as a window containing Linux desktop within which you have a window whose contents are the NT machine. Can you say "blech"? For that set-up I would suggest using straight VNC on NT (unforunately you will then pay hardware rather than software).

Of course, as I mentioned before, in an all-Linux environment you would have had this functionality without needing additional software or multiple machines.

Regards,
Ben