Girls Like Linux Too

I'm a girl, I'm in IT by sclatter · 1999-09-15 16:31 · Score: 5

As far as I can tell, there are as many women in IT as really want to be in IT. I wish it were otherwise, but the aspiring techie women that I have worked with have typically lacked the "fire in the belly" that drives guy techies to be really successful in the business.

I don't think this is because women are stupid, or that IT is intrinsically hard. Women are just socialized with different values and priorities, and geeking out is not usually one of them. ;-)

That said, women who bitch and moan about the glass ceiling bug me. In my experience my advancement has been pretty much based on how hard I worked and how smart I am. If you are good enough, your gender becomes irrelevant. Sure, every now and then a poorly socialized male makes a stupid comment, but that's what a sense of humor is for!

Re:I'm a girl, I'm in IT by meersan · 1999-09-15 17:01 · Score: 3

Why are geek girls so hard to find? The IT field is one of the most interesting, dynamic and exciting in the world today! Why aren't women interested in computer science? If there really is no societal pressure involved, is something biologically different with women's brains? As a female geek myself, I'd have to say I think it has more to do with education and the expectations of our status-conscious culture.

Just like males, we go through the pressure cooker of high school, with all the emphasis on conformity and appearance that implies. Even worse, girls in my high school were routinely encouraged (both by teachers and other students) to take algebra instead of trig, trig instead of calculus. And if you plan to major in a scientific field in college, you really need to start in high school. It can mean the difference between majoring in electrical engineering or information management. Women seem to get "steered" into less math-rigorous fields.

The result? Whenever I meet a geek guy and start talking about my computer-related interests, his eyes goggle out as though he's found the Promised Land.

--
We want endless gardens of data, where the bits can flower, flourish and reproduce. -- Andy Mueller-Maguhn

An article by Alan Cox's Wife by Amphigory · 1999-09-15 16:36 · Score: 3

I think that there are many geek women -- their area of geeky interest is just usually not computers and they are usually a bit more practical than we are. For example, This article from Alan Cox's wife was published in LJ a few years back.

Just thought you guys would find it interesting.

--
-- Slashdot sucks.

Re:More of the tired old ramble.... by Mithy · 1999-09-15 16:37 · Score: 3

This is essentially true. There was a very good BBC Open University programme on the history of computing which seems to be repeated annually which outlined this phenomenon. In the early days of computing when "coding" was very much a menial task, viewed in much the same way as data entry is seen today - often consisting merely of converting machine language into holes in a punch card (for example) - there were a lot of women filling this role. With the advent of assemblers, compilers and larger secondary storage, the need for these coders dwindled, IIRC, and "coding" became more and more the province of engineers and scientists. The original coders were eventually pushed out of the picture, it would seem.

--
This isn't the post you're looking for. Move along.

--

--
"This isn't the post you're looking for. Move along."

true men by fundflow · 1999-09-15 15:52 · Score: 2

Well, geeks are known to be chauvinist pigs...

Oh this macho feeling of the true man riding in the plains of the TCP/IP stack.

:)

A related story by HeUnique · 1999-09-15 15:52 · Score: 2

Don't forget this related story. It's talking about a Linux distribution for girls..

--
Hetz (Heunique)

Re:A related story by rob+colonna · 1999-09-15 17:33 · Score: 2

Come on, they could take this distribution and bundle it with the new Barbie computers, and make it so that every time you started up q3a, it would say, 'wouldn't you rather play house', or when you started MAPLE, it would say 'math class is hard'. They could bundle the LinuxPPC for Girls with the Strawberry iMac, too! think of the possibilities!
(And then puke.)

I'm raising my daughter to be a girl geek by georgeha · 1999-09-15 15:53 · Score: 5

She's three, and right now her favorite computer activities are painting with Gimp or Paint (she prefers adding strokes to Teletubby images), searching the web for cat pictures, or posing for my parallel port camera.

The other day I captivated her by playing a wav of her crying at 2 months, she couldn't get enough of it.

Once she can read, I think I'll teach her to rebuild the kernel.

George

Re:I'm raising my daughter to be a girl geek by coaxial · 1999-09-16 04:54 · Score: 2

I don't know about tech support, but I know that many men treat women quite different in topics of conversion where gender should not be an issue. A few years ago my e-mail name was "Helenize", and folks therefore assumed me female. I got replies that began "Listen here lady..." and were filled gender biased belittling remarks. (We'll ignore the dozens of pathetic pickup attempts.)

Now listen here lil' mama... :)

I teend to see sexism in tech support usually when male tech-support-lacky and has to deal with a female victim/luser. The man tends to talk down (not overtly like, "Now lil' mama, that wouldn't happen if you were at home barefoot and pregenant in the kitchen, like you belong." more subtle, like with they words they use.) Men tend to be less patient (i.e. "Here. *bang* *bang* *bang* Now it's fixed.") and they DEFINATLY don't explain what is going on behind the scenes to cause the problem.

P.S. Where I went to college, the CS sysadmin was a woman. She was quite cool.
Re:I'm raising my daughter to be a girl geek by HappyHead · 1999-09-15 17:40 · Score: 2

My neice (3 yrs) was mad because her new (pre) school won't let her use the computer by herself, and they said they don't have an internet connection. Kinda sad, since she knows more about it than my mother. ("No Nana, you put the cd in here and push there!")
Re:I'm raising my daughter to be a girl geek by unixchick · 1999-09-15 21:14 · Score: 2

Good for you! I hope more parents out there follow your example.

Personally I grew up with daycare in the back of a ComputerLand store (remember those?). My dad was the manager there so he brought me home all sorts of techy posters and freebies. BTW the caps that are used to cover ends of keyboards and mice during shipping work really well as cups for doll houses.

It is unfortunate that there was the gender bias and my brother was the one taught about programming and got to play computer games. I had limited access to the computers and never was encouraged to really learn how to used it. Do you really think that would stop me?

I finally did build my own computer and got on bbs/internet it was pretty cool to be one of the only girls around. And at my last job, I had virtually the entire bathroom (including shower) to myself during the day shift. However, I would gladdly give up such luxuries to have more chicks around.

For anyone who cares of my opinion, I don't think there is more of a gender bias in the techy world than any where else. Sure I've faced sexism and racism, but it's never stopped me from getting a job or being promoted. The unfortunate fact is that not all of the world believes women and men are equal, but that shouldn't keep young girls (or old ones!) from trying to do great things. If anything, the internet is a great place for females to try and beat the bias. Nobody may ever know your sex, race, or nationality.

Your future is in the hands of simply one person, you. It's your choice to advance in the world, or be scared and work at mc donalds for the rest of your life.

I'm gonna get moderated down for this, but... by rde · 1999-09-15 15:53 · Score: 3

My girlfriend signed up to Linux chix a while ago, and signed off shortly after because most of the talk was about linux-unrelated matters.
She show me a few choice messages, and I sniggered mightily.
Of course, I haven't signed up to a mailing list yet that didn't have some non-zero signal-to-noise ratio, but I do like some of the messages to be relevant.
Another point: are nerd grrls really as marginalised as once they were? Most of the developed world is suffering from a shortage of qualified IT staff, and even the most entrenched chauvinist has to consider the unthinkable; females or even -- gasp! -- saggitarians.

Re:I'm gonna get moderated down for this, but... by hellbunnie · 1999-09-15 17:14 · Score: 2

Those choice messages included things like a discussion about whether the linux chix or their boyfriends did the housework, some 18 year old guy going on about wanting to 'give one' to one of the female list members, an announcement of one girls engagement to her boyfriend and his fiance... need I go on?

There's plenty of room for those kinds of discussions on the web, but a linux mailing list id not the place for them. Any other mailing list I'm on would have banned a good half of the posters to that list.

Amazingly enough I think I must have been the only one who found the discussions off-topic. Nobody else complained once, infact the polygamous marriage announcement was met with congratulations and supportive messages from other polygamous people and the replies to the 18 year old on the pull consisted mainly of the phrase "hehe :)".

Ggrrrr....
me.

Where are all the geekettes, you ask? by Black+Parrot · 1999-09-15 15:53 · Score: 2

> we just never be able to find girl geeks of our own

That's because the geek girls are all home glued to their screens, just like any other flavor of geek.

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade

Re:Where are all the geekettes, you ask? by anthonyclark · 1999-09-15 16:23 · Score: 3

You do.

It's just that most geekresses|geekettes|geekgrrls use a nick that doesn't scream out "I'm female!" I know several female geeks that use male names and nicks to cover themselves against online abuse.

PS. if geek is male, then shouldn't it be fegeek? (joke)

--
----- Documentation is worth it just to be able to answer all your mail with 'RTFM' - Alan Cox.

More of the tired old ramble.... by Mithy · 1999-09-15 15:54 · Score: 5

....about how few women there are in I.T., but with the word "Linux" thrown in to make it sound trendy and up-to-date.

There's a simple reason why there are few women in I.T. A lot of the "alpha geeks" of today (to rip that awful phrase from the article) tend to be in their late twenties and thirties - which means they were first using computers, on average, back in the late Seventies or early Eighties when home computers started coming into the mainstream - and at a time when education was still so backward that even those schools which had any kind of I.T. curriculum certainly wouldn't dream of having girls on their course.

Geeks have to be caught at an early age. You want more women in I.T.? Get your four-year-old niece/daughter interested in how to code, and sit back and wait twenty years.

--
This isn't the post you're looking for. Move along.

--

--
"This isn't the post you're looking for. Move along."

Re:More of the tired old ramble.... by froz · 1999-09-15 16:51 · Score: 2

*Chuckle* as i look upon the linuxchix mascot. Do all female linux users dress in such a navel-exposing fashion? Maybe I should go to a meeting. But seriously...
This chix thing is definitely a good thing as far as i'm concerned. An industry run on testosterone is a one-sided industry. You're right about girls not being encouraged to participate in anything technical. This kind of bias is extremely obvious at my school where the librarians will instinctively turn to the nearest male student when they encounter a 'problem' with a puter. I fear that the educational system has unknowingly brainwashed me (and others) into thinking that only guys are proficient at technical stuff. Hence, I was surprised when more than one of my friends(chix) told me they wanted to do comp sci next year at uni or something equally technical.
The subsequent discussions we had on techy stuff was refreshing to say the least. ie, refreshing from the usual dribble I hear from guys.
From my observations, it seems that technically-adept guys i know talk about their puters like a bunch of rev-heads talking about cars. They always boast about how they managed to clock an extra 33mH from their new celeron, etc.
The chix I talk to tend to talk more about how puters can actually be used for cool stuff. (interesting to note that more than half the users on icq are female, but maybe this is related to something else).
Don't get me wrong, I love a good discussion on making my machine work as fast as physically possible in order to get that extra fps in q3test. But it's nice to hear someone whose opinions aren't testosterone-induced.
Viva la chix!
BTW, I'm a guy...
Re:More of the tired old ramble.... by grahamm · 1999-09-15 16:08 · Score: 2

Yet 20 years ago when I started working in a mainframe programming site, there were plenty of women both as programmers and team leaders. So the very strong male bias seems to be more recent. But again, there were not many IT college courses in those days, so most people were qualified in some other discipline and "transfered" into computing.

My experience with girl geeks by Raleel · 1999-09-15 16:42 · Score: 3

I went to a small university with a small computer science program (about 10-20 active members) and roughly 1/2 of the students were women. It was quite neat. They were just as geeky as the rest of us, but they concentrated on entirely different aspects. While most of the guys were hardwre junkies, most of the girls were software junkies. I think this is actually a trend. We sat down and talked avout it one time, and most of them said they didn't care how the hardware worked, as long as it let them get their job done.

On the other hand, and I'll use my wife as an example, they did care intimately about how the software worked. My wife is a software engineer at heart. She cares that the software is PERFECT. She will rake you over the coals for the littlest error, which is good. Other girls in the group followed a similar line, being programmers at heart. I know the program was wierd, because the math dept, which was linked to the CS dept, was also half women. One of my professors commented that that attittude of "women can't be geeks" had not gotten to that section of the world yet. Lets hope it stays out.

I think, though, that this illustrates an important point, that women geeks may not look like the traditional geek, but still are technically oriented. Work with it. Having that different view point will only help you. Girls out there reading this, do not be afraid of geek guys. They respect knowledge most of all, and will probably get all horny at the thought of a woman who can code them under the table ;)

BTW, my wife uses linux. Just last night we dicussed her doing her senior project on open source software and software engineering. She RABIDLY hates Microsoft. I mean RABIDLY. SHe was saying to me that when she gets her new computer (she has picked it out, yea she picked it because it was cute, but it comes with linux, from buypogo.com) she was going to put BeOS and OS/2 warp on it, and Linux. Oh yea, and she can Calculus me under the table any day.

If you are interested in the school, check my email address.

--
-- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --

geek grrls and such by coaxial · 1999-09-16 04:39 · Score: 2

Alot of points have been raised, there's the issue of the lack of women in the industry. (I loath the acronym "IT" sounds like suit-talk to me.), and the legendary Glass Ceiling(tm) issue.

I don't have alot to say about the second one. I'm a white male, glass ceilings don't effect me. They certainly used to exist. Do they today? Perhaps. I haven't actually seen anyone smack into it, but I'm just out of college. I tend to think of the high-tech industry as "enlightened" when it comes to that kind of shit. (Pulling stunts like enforcing a glass ceiling is shit, pure and simple.) That doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, I'm just not "in the know" if it does. (I tend to think more about racism, instead of sexism.) Unequal pay certainly exists. It's a dispicable act, and I don't see how anyone could possibly justify it in their own minds so they could sleep at night.

As for the lack of women in the industry that's a totally seperate issue. (In fact I see it working against Glass Ceilings(tm). Afterall it's going to be INCREDIBLY obvious if the sole woman on the staff never gets promoted.) There's not alot of women in the the industry because there's not alot of women majoring in CS/Engineering. Why? I don't know; not alot of men major in elemetry education either. Why? I don't know. I'm sure a similar machanisms are at work in both of these phenomena.

There's not alot of blacks in CS either. Why? I don't know. There isn't though. I came across 2 in 4 years of college, and I can only think of 3 where I work (One of them is in project management and runs the change control meetings. That impressed me. (Well not necessarily "impressed", but it made my inner integrationalist/liberal happy.)).

Of course not all CS/engineering women are geeks, just like not all CS/engineering men are geeks, but I'm confident that the geek to non-geek ratio is the same for both groups. (No I have no data, just a feeling.) I don't think you can intentionally set out to make a geek like the one guy is trying to do. Geeks are born not made. All the geek girls I know played with dolls, had tea parties and did all that other "girl stuff". Sometimes it suprizes me ("You had a Cabbage Patch Kid?!?") but it only make sense when you think about it. A geek grrl is a girl first, and a geek second. Just like how a geek guy is a guy first, and geek second.

Just some random line noise I thought I'd throw down about this.

Yeak Geeks! Don't look for geekettes! by JPS · 1999-09-15 17:10 · Score: 4

Look everyone, if you are a geek, then don't look for a geekette. That's a no-no. Oh sure, you'd have plenty of things to talk about first, but then... Two friends of mine are living together and they are both (good) sysops. When I discuss with them on monday, it's like:

- [Me] So what have you been doing this week-end?
- [Him] Oh. That was cool! We spent the whole saturday night debugging our new kernel driver! By the way, did you know that there was a bug in the file /usr/src/linux/foo/bar.c? Let me explain, blah blah blah blah blah blah...
- [Her] That's not perfectly accurate, in fact, it turned out that we found the bug by analyzing network traffic using the tool we developped last month and that the module was sending a bad IP header when blah blah blah blah
- [Him] Well yeah, it was lot of fun! [to her:] talking about networking, have you solved the network problem in our company, you told me that a box was loosing a very high number of packets.
- [Her] Well, no I spent the whole day yesterday to change cables but nothing, the problem must be coming from somewhere else. Any idea?
- [Him] mhhh
- [Her to me] how about you?
- [Me] err. I went to see a movie on saturday :)

Geeks are stereotypedly (what a cool word) supposed not to have a social life. I thing the stereotype would apply even more to geek couples :)

WELL said!!!! by Electra · 1999-09-15 17:20 · Score: 3

Very well said indeed....Anyway, as a girl, I find all the sexist attitudes towards technically inclined women very frustrating! But I won't rant and rave about that one since it's been said so many times. But I would like to let my fellows know that they need to take a look at their attitudes about girl geeks.
Everone knows that geeks tend to be very chauvanistic, and I don't think many girl geeks speak out about what it does to us ! Not only do we have society's hang ups about geeks to deal with-but our own kind gives us shit. Alot of girl geeks feel they need to sacrifice their womanhood and femininity to be accecpted as a serious member of geek society. Which is a motherload of shit!!! Most women don't talk about it but it's the truth Take a GOOD look arond at the girl geeks you do know, and you'll see what I mean.
I am one of 4 women in one of my classes and 2 of them are total mud-ducks. In the beginning of the class-the teachers took a bet on which of the students would fail-and of course I was in the list of do-nothigs and the two ugly chicks were said to do well. All because I have long red nails and I'm quite good looking(not to be conceited) and I REFUSE to give up any of my feminine traits to be taken seriously! Needless to say those ugly chicks routinely fall behind me, and one of the teachers actually apologized to me.
All this girl geek, boy geek stuff is ridiculous. We are ALL geeks, and should stick together!
Death to ZDNet for publishing that article.

~~

--
"Most of my heros won't appear on no stamps..." Chuck D from Fight the Power

caution, lest we be divided by Rylen · 1999-09-15 17:22 · Score: 2

I read slashdot practically every day, but rarely post. You lot are fairly capable of covering everything under the sun to do with the subject without my banter :-) ..but linuxchix?? it's nice to see another 'we-like-linux' site, and the fact that it encourages girls is good too, and hey - the logo rocks - but I'm not sure it's heading the right way. the thought of a 'female' distribution (why?) is worrying.

I'm sorry to see that linuxchix was formed after some comments on Slashdot. I've never read anything that really put me out on here. perhaps rather than creating our own niche, we should look at the root of the problem, though?

I like the idea, and will probably subscribe to linuxchix. but i wouldn't want us girls (sorry, but i can't stand the term geekgirl - does every male user say 'geekguy'?) breaking away to start our own thang and completely miss the point that linux is for everyone together. all hold hands!! lalalaa, etc.
sooo...could we have a mission statement from linuxchix pls?

and you wonder why?!? by Anonymous Coward · 1999-09-15 17:25 · Score: 4

Ok, I'm gonna be a little provocative here, but think about it.

Well, well. You wonder why there's so few female geeks? Hmm, just look at this /. post for example - it is rather typical of the system:

"it's just sorta the standard tirade..." means to me "stop whining, girls, it's not an issue anyway". You men want us to stop "whining"?

Well then start by taking an unfortunately still valid issue *serious*. btw: why is it that when women complain it's always viewed as "whining" while when men complain ist "protest" or "justified anger"? Could it be that that is because you just don't *want* to take us seriously? Because that would mean thinking about whether you have to feel guilty yourselves and maybe (gasp) having to change your attitude a little? Ohmigawd, that would be WORK - can't have that, right?

"which no geek argues in theory but..." means to me "they don't really exist anyway because _I_ (read: cmdrTaco) never had one let me have sex with her" Tell me: why's it that all the techies who surround me, even those who have far superior knowledge are scared shitless of me because I know my stuff pretty well ? They all LOVE to TALK with me about computers/EE/technology and stuff but when it comes to dating who do they pick up?

Some "barbie" to whom they can feel superior to because she'll come to him with the "please do this and that for me you big strong man I'm too weak/dumb for it" routine for each and every crap.

You want a geek-girlfriend? Here's the 3 step easy solution:

1. open your eyes. Chances are there is one around you already but everyone is playing her achievements down or she just doesn't boast about herself which makes her invisible between all the loud shouters

2. respect her for what she is. She's probably no "barbie" so don't expect her to spend 5 hours in front of a mirror every morning - that's not what you said you wanted anyway, right? And she's not in the world "to get laid by _you_" - she's not a target but rather wants to choose her mate among *equals*.

3. don't be frigthened yourself. As I said - most men I know are *terrified* to "loose their face in front of a woman" and therefore are damn tough to the geek women they meet. Result: many geeky women are very tough in return as self protection.

Just 2 cents from a geek woman.

I have a complaint (albeit an unfair one) by jeddz · 1999-09-15 17:57 · Score: 2

I can't be a feminist.

I would like to be one, I really would. But I lack the one quality that would, without question, allow me into the folds, the inner circle: being a woman.

Now, before I get slammed for being either naive or cold-hearted, let me explain. I am (mostly) white, (mostly) male, (mostly) hetero and (mostly) Protestant. But I'm also compassionate, empathetic, and eager to help those around me. God knows I've been helped in the past in one way or another, and I know what it's like to be marginalized and oppressed. Do I know what the world is like from a woman's perspective? No. Just like I don't understand what it's like to be black in a white society, gay in a hetero culture, and a spirtual person where temples and mosques and forests and skies are not considered "real" places of worship.

Does this mean I can't be a feminist? Seemingly. Because not only am I not one of "us" (the women), I am one of "them" (the men) -- a member of the group of oppressors.

I understand the perspective: it's important to have a group of people that you feel safe with, and when that group is a collection of people with a common suffering, the last person you want in your group is someone who reminds you of that suffering.

It saddens me, but I'm afraid that's just the way of things. In a world I try so hard to make better, I ended up, by no control of my own, being part of the dominant, oppressing group.

And sadly for me, I'm not totally white (I'm half Asian), I'm not totally hetero (won't get into that...not ready yet. ;-) ), I'm not totally Christian (lots of leanings towards Buddhism and others).

But I am totally male. *sigh*

--jeddz

P.S. I have a feeling I'll get flamed for this, but I just had to get that off my chest. Be gentle.

Thoughts on being a female geek. by HSinclair · 1999-09-15 19:41 · Score: 3

I am a female geek.

I've been getting an overwhelming attitude among geek guys recently that women geeks are just a toy like their new 21 inch moniotr. with a "Where can I buy my own?" attitude. You guys go on about petrifying whatever female geek catches your fancy for the day, you talk about 'creating' your own linux nerd, you suggest female geeks as great beowulf clusters, you say "I wish I could show her my box, heh heh heh". You guys pride yourselves on your intelligence, and you want to be respected for your mind, well so do I. Geek respect is earned, no matter what gender you are, and you're never going to find a female geek if you can't give her the basic respect you'd give any other geek.

But just when you thought I was going to bash men my whole comment, let me say: Women are worse. They whine that there aren't enough women in management, that they can't get along with the male geeks, blah blah blah. Damn, get over it! I can get along with geek guys just fine, and so can you if you just stop thinking it as "us" vs "them". As I said before, respect is earned, and you're not going to earn any respect by talk instead of action. Oh yeah, and girls, if you're fat and ugly, stop trying to convince the guys that just because you're a lardball that all of the rest of us are too. "Don't expect us to be barbies!"

You'll never find any self respecting female geek in a group like "linux chix", for one, by this time they've gotten so used to male company that they often prefer guys to women, they don't want to talk about "how can we get more girls into computers! (I like having no competition), and they don't give a damn about how there aren't enough women in management. Don't try to look for us in groups like "nrrdgrrl.com" either. I can't stand that name, and besides, the whole board is about 13 year old girls complaining "Booh hooh! I'm so fat! I'm so ugly! I want to kill myself!" I really have a hard time resisting giving them some encouragement, heather style.

On a final note: As the Misanthropic Bitch says when people ask you "How can you be a woman and think the way you do?", "How could anyone but a woman think like me? Men rarely see the nuts and bolts of womanhood. I see it on a daily basis, and I'm expected to behave in a similar fashion because of my gender. Nothing can make one a misogynist faster than being born a woman. "

Re:Thoughts on being a female geek. by Lexi_the_linux_girl · 1999-09-15 21:20 · Score: 3

I just joined LinuxChix, not because I want to whine with other women about the glass ceiling and how much it hurts my head everytime I try to stand up, but because I thought it may be interesting to take part in a mailing list which has other women interested in linux in it.

If I am a feminist - I am the Camila Pagila type - I don't get along with Womyn - but grrls and chix are quite fun. From my experience Chix and Grrls tend to like being female and like men, Womyn don't like men, and don't even tend to be that feminine.

I have always had more male friends than female friends, I love male geeks, perhaps a tad too much - nothing turns me on more than a tall sexy intellegent man. I found one who I can play Lan with. (Private Joke - normal couples play house, geek couples play LAN when they get together).
I think I joined linuxchix because perhaps they will petition for small t-shirts with linux logos, perhaps some mini-T's with tux on them - it is just such a bother to make my own. Just kidding.

Actually I think I joined because I want to talk with other women in the industry - I would like to meet other women who think of programming as C, perl, java, etc, instead of HTML. I would like to meet more women with brains. There are so many clueless women out there!!

On the glass ceiling, I really don't know what to think of it, most women who complain about the glass ceiling tend to be Women's Studies majors. How do they expect to find a job in a most male enviroment without learning the proper trade. I have met female mechanics, even Heavy Machinery Mechanics, I have met female welders, female geeks, and none of these women have complaints about a glass ceiling, only the Women's Studies Majors.

On the men's attitude, perhaps some of them are a tad young, and inexperienced. A geek girl, is still a girl, treat her with respect, woo her with some ram, or perhaps a new sound card if she doesn't like flowers. For an aniversy present ask if she'd prefer a ring, or a laptop, they cost about the same. A geek girls looks are likely to be about the same as any cross section of humans, there will be dolls and dogs. Perhaps if we are working 12 hour days infront of a computer we may not be wearing as much makeup.

I met a geek girl at school who was a model part time to go to school - so perhaps there are a few barbies. I did some modelling when I was 18 myself - so I know my looks are pretty good. Just as not every man fits the geek sterotype, not every woman does either.

Anyways - Us geeks perpeuate our own sterotypes on what a geek is and what they look like. If we want the rest of the world to stop seeeing us as the stereotype, why don't we start breaking through the sterotype in our own circles!

--

Nya Nya by GutZilla · 1999-09-15 16:07 · Score: 2

I am one of the fortunate few to have a Linux babe that fixes anything I can break and then explain how she fixed it so I don't do it more than 3 more times.

She is incredibly patient with me and only gently suggests I read the Readme or Install files before simply charging ahead and installing packages and expecting them to work the first time.

So I repeat....Nya Nya ! I got a Linux babe :)

--
So much to learn so little time.

Sexism in an article about anti-sexism by Pascal+Q.+Porcupine · 1999-09-15 16:17 · Score: 2

I couldn't take the article seriously after the headline, in which it calls female geeks "she-geeks," and then whose subtitle was about battling sexism. I'm sure the article was informative, but it just seemed to laughably hypocritical to, right off the bat, make female geeks seem like something to be belittled.
---
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.

--
"'Is not a quine' is not a quine" is a quine.
Quine "quine?

Oh gah.. by Kitsune+Sushi · 1999-09-15 16:18 · Score: 2

To think I was talking about there being too many distros in response to /Corel/! You know, there is a very good reason why there are only a few "real" distros.. That's because only a few actually serve to fill a particularly niche that needs to be filled, and the rest is just another pile of ammunition set down on the table with the "big boys".. except that they're firing blanks rather than the full-force cannon shots of Debian and Red Hat.

To be honest, a distro (much less an OS) targeted toward women makes less sense than anything else I've heard lately (ever..?). This isn't body wash or perfume we're peddling here, people!

--

~ Kish

Individualized toilet stalls by vchang · 1999-09-15 16:18 · Score: 2

Stephane Miller joked about the perks of being one of a handful of geeky women at work. Because she's a tech worker, the ratio of women to restrooms is about one-to-one on her side of the building. "Every woman there could have her own toilet stall," she said. "I'm thinking of labeling mine."

Heh heh! This was the case in the early days of the company I work at. There was a one-to-one ratio of female-employees-to-stalls.

Late one evening, the girlfriend of one of my co-workers was visiting. She came out of the women's bathroom laughing and dragged her boyfriend into the bathroom to show him something...

Not only were each of the stalls individually decoratively labeled, they also had color printout pictures of their "owners" :-)

Differing sexes, differing attitudes. by LizardKing · 1999-09-15 16:23 · Score: 3

One thing that I have noticed about women computer programmers as compared to their male colleagues, is that they tend to view programming as a job and an interest - not a lifestyle. Many male computer people, and especially wannabe ones live and breath computers, from hardware to software. For the average male geek it's reflected in the books that they read and the clothes they wear - typically cyberpunk and sloppy casualwear.

Obviously this is still a generalisation, but walk around any IT office, and the female staff will be less distinguishable from their counterparts in say accounts or human resources, than the males.

Maybe that's why women are a less vocal, but rapidly growing part of the IT workforce. As men tend to be more openly and loudly competitive than women in most walks of life, they leave the impression that they dominate the field.

On the eve of the twent-first century men do still dominate most walks of life. But given the massive advances in attaining equality for women in this century, I don't think it will be long before the issue of women in computing becomes a non-issue.

Chris Wareham

32 of 220 comments (clear)