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Psion Revo and Palm Vx launched
krp writes "Psion has lauched it's new Revo, a kind of cuter 5mx, but with better Internet/comms software and a free ISP specialising in content for handhelds called psion.net (see an article at Yahoo). Also Palm have released the Palm Vx, a Palm V with 8 meg memory and bundled with AvantGo. See a V series comparison and an article at Yahoo. Prices of older Palm models have dropped accordingly. " The Palm VII has also had a higher rollout, with the push on for more sales.
Agreed, i just got free psion 3a and really love it. It is elegant, simple, and hackable . I would love to purchase a revo now for the size and faster processor ( so I can use VIM.yea!)..
But..the $500 dollor pricetag (I could never regularly carry around a 500 dollar piece of hardware in my pocket..i would be to paranoid), backlite issue (you really need a backlite for things use in a car or bedroom at night) and the fact the so are few brick and mortar retailers in the US where I can actually play with one...
-greg
there is plptools that lets you "nfs" mount your psion http://www.gumbley.demon.co.uk/plptools.html and some other helper utils http://www.freshmeat.net/search.php3?query=psion -greg
According to www.grimley.org, psion had been pretty good with the OS community this guy (and others). www.grimley.org is making a OS compliler for psion's 3a's.
Here is an excerpt from http://www.gumbley.demon.co.uk/psion-c.html
5th September 1997: Psion Software have granted us permission to redistribute the header files from the SIBO C SDK. Here's the email I received from Ali Manson:
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 97 13:35:40 GMT
From: "Ali Manson" ALI-MANSON@PSION.COM
To: "Matt J. Gumbley" MATT@GUMBLEY.DEMON.CO.UK
Subject: Re: Redistributing C SDK headers...
Hello Matt
Apologies for the delay. We have no problem with your distributing the
header files.
However, the header files must be distributed *intact*. As such, this
means that the #pragmas will remain. I wouldn't have thought that it
would be too much trouble to have your compiler parse out the
#pragmas.
If you can accept this simple restriction, you have our permission.
with best regards
Ali
.
.
.
.
greg
So did I... Oh well, I figure I will never use the full 2MBs anyway.
If you mean for the psion- it already works with cellphones; read the website. There is already a free/shareware terminal program called "hermes" which works nicely. Personally, I used to use my series 3 as a pocket serial terminal for tweaking things like routers without having to carry a large, heavy, restricted-uptime laptop.. :) HTH
it got "funny" though :O)
guaranteed synchronization/compatibility with your Linux desktop and all its cool open source apps, for one...
also it's important for there to be a Free alternative in the palmtop space, so that no one company can "own" palmtop standards. while i'm don't that Linux is the best possible choice, it is the Free platform that has the most momentum right now. plus, there is no reason that the LinuxCE userland has to be anything like the Linux userland.
That's all well and good, but the only CF disk out there is the IBM Microdrive, which comes in 170 & 340 MB sizes ;-)
You can get a Palm III for $169.99 (see killerapp.com), and that should drop in the next week or so; the Visor is $179 for the same 2Mb config... It is cheaper for 8Mb, though, but the Palm V is thinner and rechargeable.
I like Palm Computing, but I like toys even better. Check out the coolest toy ever. I have the bug and the suv. I race 'em at work.
You can get a Palm IIIe for $189 if you look around... get a job that doesn't involve flipping burgers and you should be able to afford it.
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
Initial impressions are that the Revo actually has a cut down version of the comms software in the 5MX. They're both using EPOC R5, but the Revo doesn't appear to be Fax-capable, which the 5MX is.
I dont know if p3nfsd works with the p5, but I cant see why it wouldnt.
;)
If all else fails, use the terminal emulator, or even run linux on the S5 itself
-Yarn - Rio Karma: Excellent
Isn't a "BEOPALM" where you masturbate with both hands?
The next Cmdr Taco duplicate will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and see it early!
It does work, but it's definitely clunky. An implementation of the psion serial protocol would be nice, but no such luck.
Deleted
A cuter Series 5mx without the expansion slot and without the spell checker and sketch app, with half the screen size, no backlight and a smaller keyboard.
Otherwise seriously nice. (Seriously.)
Regards, Ralph.
> Psion (together with ARM) are all that really
> remains of the British small computer industry
And the Revo will be the first Psion machine not to be made in the UK. It'll be made in Taiwan. (So if it's late to market we'll know why.)
Regards, Ralph.
Our company has made a conserted (sp?) effort to stay up with the Palm Technology, etc. We are mainly a web development/marketing/consulting firm, do you think this type of content will really start to be a new wave? Or will it be about as popular as java has become, that is neat for some navigational applets and to crash my browser, but nothing like for what it was intended? We even enabled one of sites for the Palm VII, but seems like most reaction was, wow that is neat, to bad I don't have one (or want to spend the money for one)....
Funny and I thought Perl == Paid employment recently located
Bandwidth isn't great, at 9600 or 14.4k depending on your carrier, but it's more than functional.
Once you're online, you can use ssh or vnc to work on a box. I've had only minor difficulty ssh'ing into a unix box and reading my mail with mutt. I still haven't really seen the usefulness of vnc in a 160x160 window, but it exists and it works.
Useful links:
Wireless Connections for Nokia 51x0/61x0
Top Gun ssh for PalmOS
VNC
And of course, ssh, because only morons use telnetd
Here is the link to send the email to Psion:h tml
http://www.psioninc.com/support/usasupport_frm.
Time to send them some email and let them know how numerous we are: Psion USA email page
I think it's about time we let Psion know that they should write the PC-connection software also for Linux. Cmon guys, let's use the /. effect and send them some quality email.
Note to Psion: Release some Linux conversion tools, PLEASE! Ever since I quit my last job and thus stopped using Windows at all, my Psion has gone nearly unused for this reason. It's just not worth the effort to export as text and re-do all the formatting.
Yes, I am aware of my spelunk errers in the abuve text. I had to get up at 4:00am and go to work today, so my brain isn't exactly running smoothly. And by the looks of things, neither are the 200 or so lines of code I did before lunch. :(
--
The most startling thing in the marketing stuff was that the Revo has a significantly smaller display than the 5mx. I swear by my mx, especially the 640x240 display. The 5mx has 16MB of ram. 8MB is just too small, I bet they also canned the CF port, which was really one of the best features of the 5. I would bet that the keyboard in nicer, but my keys are already a lot softer than stock, so I have less key-resistance-misspellings.
For only $50 more, buy the mx, it has twice as much ram, a bigger display, a backlight, a compact flash port, and runs off of batteries that any snack stand or convenience store, sells -- good luck finding a place to charge your batteries when they just reach critical and you've gotta run!
The point is that it's too expensive for what you get, not that it's too expensive to afford.
---
Joseph Foley
InCert Software Corp.
It does seem somewhat odd that they'd name a model after a nerve gas. Especially since 3Com seems to have been so sensitive about potentially offensive names in the past. Apparently there was no Palm IV because 4 is an unlucky number in Japan. (Can anyone confirm this?)
/peter
I suppose they're not the first to use the name, though. There is VxWorks.
Damnit, these are PDAs and are running OSes such as PalmOS and EPOC that are absolutely perfect for what PDAs are intended to do.
Why do you guys want to cram Linux everywhere? I don't see in *what* it'd be superior on a PDA compared to PalmOS or EPOC. Even if Linux runs on these platforms, does it mean it's good at it? I doubt so. The Linux zealotry has really gone a bit too far...
If you want to develop linux stuff anywhere, get yourself a mini-laptop such as those Fujitsu, Sony and IBM make, don't turn perfect PDAs into what they're not supposed to be.
-- It's always darker before it goes pitch black.
Not without seriously voiding your warranty. The only upgrade paths are from third-party places that hack open the case and swap out the ram card. It isn't particularly a project for the weak of heart.
-Chris
Example:
http://www.efig.com
http://www.8megspalm.com
http://www.dataslice.com
Correction: Current Nokia Communicators run GEOS, not EPOC. Future models will most probably run EPOC though, as Nokia are part of the Symbian alliance.
:-)
The R380 from Ericsson is currently the only *announced* mobile phone that uses EPOC. And it's a seriously sexy piece of kit.
And more importantly, they don't run anything written by Microshaft!
Alas, while the actual machine doesn't carry any Microsoft software, most of the development and synchronization tools are Windows-specific.
I really like my old Series 5, but sometimes the inability to move any data between it and my desktop computer irritates me. Hopefully Symbian/Psion will start seeing demand for Linux-based connectivity software and open up their specs!
--
Midgard Project - Open Source CMS
Indeed, what really grates is that the Symbian EPOC Development toolkit - which as you say is tied to Win32 - is based around the gcc compiler.
(although I believe Symbian/Psion-as-was had to pretty much implement their own class libraries etc from scratch (EPOC is entirely written in C++ so be gratefull it works at all, let alone so well!))
henley
--
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
I see the Series 7 as a direct competitor to the WinCE Professional boxes that came out at the start of the year (I may have the marketing name wrong, so please excuse). I refer to the bigger HP Journadas et al.
What's interesting about that is that you're effectively getting the same productivity with the Series 7 as on a WinCE pro box (I don't want to fight holy wars and feature-checklist battles here but I do believe you have the same base function on either platform).
And then you compare the hardware specs for each platform to provide that function. Living proof of the Software Bloat phenomenon, right there in the palm of your hand.....
henley
--
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy
I just walked into a FranklinCovey store yesterday (Monday Oct 4.) I asked for a Palm V and they wondered if I wanted a Palm Vx. I told them that there was no such thing. Fortunately for me the sales person was quite pushy. As soon as I realized that they really *did* have an 8MB Palm V, I snatched it up as quick as you can say "bragging rights." I have been just so lucky these days...
Until the Palm's reach a reasonable price point, you won't catch me buying one. I mean they're cute and all, but way too expensive. The addition of bells and whistles (especially the very expensive wireless connectivity) is not really compelling.
I'm waiting for Visor, which is of course, significantly cheaper. I figure with the money I save I can buy another processor for my main box, mmmm, dual processor.
I hadn't seen too much on the previous posts about Linux compatibility. It seems the Psion has its own OS, but how well does it work with a Linux system for syncing your calendars and other file transfers?
I believe I saw where it mentioned MS Outlook and Lotus Calendar compatibility, (but not Lotus Notes?), so I feel that doesn't bode too well for playing nice with a Linux desktop.
Anyone have some more concrete information?
--sugarman--
That's the only magnetic spinning disks available for CF, but smaller sizes (from 5Mb to 80Mb) are available as flash disks. You can create & destroy files on a flash disk just like on a magnetic disk, except they take much less power.
The Psion 5mx mentioned above can support CF Flash disks of up to 80 Mb, and already has a python port.
M@t :O)
Matt Thompson - Actuality - Insert product here.
Something like this is perfect for those of us who have to carry a pager and deal with after-hour problems. It's a pocket size terminal. Now, if they only made a cell phone adapter for it and a terminal program, it'd be perfect....
I have 8MB Palm III and I don't have that many friends and there is only ca. 600kB free memory left now.
I bought a memory upgrade from TRG mostly for storing maps (to use with GPS receiver). Depending on the size/detail level it takes between 0.5 / 2.5 MB each.
With the much better screen you don't really need a backlight, and for only 200 grams I am seriously tempted to trade my Series 5 for a Revo!! BTW, here's a 5-alive info page for the Revo
... that Palm products were always overpriced (charge what the market will bear - smart!) ... that 3Com are more than a little worried about the iminent entry into the market of Handspring. I'm waiting for an expandable Palm. Not to say that Palm isn't great, but I think Handspring's new line will be better.
You'd be surprised -- after one day I'm already at around 60% just with junk I loaded from the O'Reilly book -- Reversi and Freecell and some e-texts (the US Constitution, Shakespeare's sonnets, Aesop's fables, Aladdin & the magic lamp, a Perl reference, etc -- nothing *that* big), etc. Two megabytes is pretty tight. I wonder if it's worth returning it for an upgrade... hmm...
Any thoughts?
DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL
I just got the plain V model *yesterday*. Wonder if I can get an upgrade on the ram. Does anyone know if that's feasible? I didn't see anything on 3com's site...
DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL
Intriguing idea. I had all but forgotten about gopher. IIRC, gopher's interactive capabilities were somewhat limited, however. Wasn't the only kind of input gopher could take a single search phrase, kind of like ISINDEX? It seems like that would be great for retrieval of information (give me this stock quote, look for news items about this term) but would preclude the capability for deeper interaction.
Gopher documents were also returned in plain text format. It seems like this would scale just about as well on a handheld as your typical /. article with 300 replies. :-) Either that, or the web designers will then be unleashed on the gopher servers, and we'll start seeing ``enhanced for Sprint/PCS'' gopher sites, all 10 characters wide :-)
Also, I wonder how secure all those old gopher servers are... most have obviously missed all the security brouhaha over the last few years.
They can't be serious.... Who has 8MB of friends? I guess it must impress the chicks or something. (Yeah babe! I got 8 megs in my Palm. Ain't I special?!?) Oh well at least it will push down the price of existing palms.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
Couldn't agree more. Psions really are very good computers. I used to use one of the early models, the upright ones with a keyboard in alphabetical order (series 2??).
I also used a series 3 machine for a while and personally think that the Psions are superior to the Palm machines.
Then the 5 came and it was IMHO way ahead in its time. Funny to see how the 5 still manages to compete with the rival CE machines. Next thing all machines around (3c & 5) got mx'ed and now the 5 range will have its own 'little brother'. Very good marketing strategy if you ask me. The 5mx is yet to come out (I'm planning to buy one as soon as there is one in my native language) but now a lot of people can reconsider and buy a 'lite' version of the 5mx. Sure, bottom line for Psion is to make money but then again I still feel this is a very kind way to approach the market. IMHO its better to release a lite version which is then followed by a 'bigger' version.
Being a Psion user/fan myself I do wonder where the series 7 will fit into this comparison I did. Perhaps instead of the workabout ? In that case it somehow proofs Psion is following an exact line on their, what I see, winning strategy.
btw. At the CeBIT last year Psion not only showed the series 7 (codename Jedi) but also a series 7 without keyboard but just a screen (codename Quantum). Does anyone know what happened to that concept ?
So, a PDA that runs EPOC and connects to your mobile phone's modem via IRDA. That doesn't really have much of an advantage over a Nokia Communicator, a PDA that runs EPOC and *is* a mobile phone. jk
In order to support having bloated things like Perl or Python, you need to have probably 20-30MB of storage available, and more realistically somewhat more in order to supply space for both system memory as well as some filesystem space.
This probably dictates waiting a year for WinCE to bloat further so that LinCE can have adequate hardware to run on.
Smileys all around, of course...
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
--
Can we please move on now?
--
The current state of the project is that it is able to translate Psion Word files to ASCII, HTML 3.3 and HTML 4.0. I am working on RTF (Rich Text Format) output right now (ugh! talk about an ugly file format!). And images and stuff will be supported Real Soon Now (tm).
I have recently set up a CVS archive; if others want to join me on this project, they are very welcome to do so. Contact me at frodol@dds.nl.
By the way, psiconv is of course distributed under the GPL, and the file format documentation is completely in the public domain!
I'll wait to get myself a Visor. Palm stuff looks cool but then as soon as you buy something they come out with a more expensive feature laden model and you're stuck with the one that wasn't the cool toy youy thought it would be. The stuff from Handspring is priced much better than 3Com's not to mention has Tiger Woods. The Visor looks to me like a much better buy, you get what you pay for plus Palm OS which tops all others in my opinion. The Visor also seems to be much better at expanding with the slot on the back (a great idea) for modems, games, memory, microdrives, ect.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
My biggest concern is the lack of a backlight on the Revo ... that and the $499 price tag.
... 3Com is just MUGGING people at $24.99 for 100KB/month and $39.99 for 300KB/month and .20 cents per 1K above that. That's just SICK and they need some competition.
I love the idea of free Psion.net service tho
I've written a little more about it at PDABuzz.com
Psion have been around for a long time. Orignially they produced 8-bit micro software - most of Sinclair's own software was written by Psion, and it was of the very highest quality. They produced both serious and game software, which was rare at the time. They went on to produce the office suite for the ill-fated QL.
Since then they have been producing handhelds of increasing complexity. The first model looked like a pregnant pocket calculator, with a single line text display and an alphanumeric keypad. It was succesful, and I recall insurance salemen used them for calculating premiums.
Psion (together with ARM) are all that really remains of the British small computer industry, and industry that was at its peak around 16 years ago. Everyone else has either died, been absorbed by a multi-national, or is simply shipping PC clones built from out-sourced components.
The current crop of machines are excellent, and there is a Linux port being worked on. And more importantly, they don't run anything written by Microshaft!
When I get enough money, I will probably buy a Psion. This assumes someone can give me a job where I am used to my full potential.
I wonder if the Palm "Vx" is going to be popular in countries with chemical weapons programs?
We're going down, in a spiral to the ground
This push for web content on PCS phones, PDA's, winshield holograms... etc is starting to make me sick. When html was developed it was intended as a simple markup language, not an entire document development, management, and display environment. Most websites were designed with simple markup for text browsers or small resolutions like 640*480. As Hardware has progressed, we have seen a shift towrads extremely complex documents that require an average display of 800*600 or larger. To get that kind of content down to a PDA sized display is a daunting if not impossible task unless you want to lose severe amounts of content. With the investment many companies have made into document conversion and content development not to mention database integration (or disentigration if you prefer) and whatnot it seems sad that we should all want to shove that information into a format so incongrous than what it was designed for. Sending short email from a PDA/PCS is a great feature, but do I want to use it to read and sort my daily 50-150 messages? I think not. Do I want to squeeze down my research on E*trade so that it is unreadable and indecipherable? No again. Simple information like a single stock quote or I-95 south in downtown richmond is blocked, or heavy snow this afternoon is usefull but that is about as far as it goes. Why reinvent the wheel. There is an OLD well developed, directory structured protocol perfect for information like this. It's called gopher. Anyone remember it? Any gopher horror stories?
Flame Away!
www.mp3.com/Undocumented