Slashdot Mirror
New iMac Rolled Out
Ivo writes "Apple just announced a new iMac. The base model starts at $999, and the $1499 model has built-in firewire and DVD. More at Apple's website " Three different models (no fan, better graphics and sub-woofer), and the commercials are online.
One cheap box with everything you need to make and edit home movies except the digital camcorder, and it's easy to use? There's been demand for that for a long time. Too bad Microsoft has been too busy making NT pretty to provide any leadership in that kind of thing.
Wow, gotta love those fruity (literally) colors...I was kinda hoping they'd abolish that...oh well :)
Anyways, they seem to be semi powerful when you think about it...Firewire and DVD would make one worth buying, if some good OS supported them...but a lack of DVD Support in Linux (only other PPC OS that I can think of) sucks
Sony has a video capture application only. They use a "lite" version of Premiere to do the actual editing. What I hear from users is that the video is captured just fine (which is quite an impressive technical achievement), but editing and playback are very poor. For that reason, I can't recommend those machines.
The Mac, on the other hand, is the best machine by far for editing DV. I have one; no fuss, no muss, no problems at all. Highly recommended.
D
----
To go from $1299 to $1499 you add 64MB more RAM, 3 GB more HD and the graphite color, but all of the iMacs except the base model come with DVD and Firewire.
Actually, I've done some real-world video editing with EditDV on a G3, and in my experience modern ATA [extended IDE] drives work great and is, of course, much more cost-effective than SCSI.
From the discussion of the Sun SPARC systems with IDE, I have the impression that IDE performance does fall over when you're doing multitasking. Fortunately, video capture doesn't require that - if a system can run a single process fast enough to capture the data, it will work. In my experience, it does.
D
----
Bear in mind that Digital Video isn't just about $3,700 three-chip MiniDV camcorders like my Canon XL1. There's a new crop of $1,995 three-chip models, and there's Sony Digital8 (DV format, 8mm tapes) for the sub-$1,000 end.
There are loads of gadget lovers who are going to love this stuff to death. I bought my beige G3 for basically the same purpose as the DV iMac and it was $ 2,800 plus monitor. This is very impressive work on the part of Apple.
The only problem is the monitor's a shade small for video editing. They need a 17" model, and then, darn, I might even buy one.
D
----
It has been interesting reading the various comments on Apple. I have noticed that there has been a change. I see less bashing on these pages. Maybe Apple is doing something right, or maybe we have a better picture of what they are trying to achieve. Probably both.
Lets face it, the only two things really happening right now is Apple and Linux. They are the ones pushing the technology. sure there are mergers, and some software breakthroughs, but they haven't had the impact that that little blue box and that fat penguin has had.
Go into an electronics store, they may not have the iMac, but the iMac is everywhere. It doesn't stop there, look at the new Colgate iMac biondi blue toothbrush. I'm not kidding.
This machine, the iMac has had an impact far beyond and above the computer world. they have put a friendly face on technology, they have ripped it from its beige, stodgy conservative image.
My wife, a technophobe is now using a green iMac. she has amazed me. She is reading and understanding the manuals. Her eyes don't glaze over when I talk tech to her. She has even learned some email tricks.
This is the big plus for Apple. they have removed the distance between man and machine. They have made a machine that a person can get emotionally attached to. It's too cute to fear. It has character.
You may not like the OS, or Steve jobs and some of Apples' policies, but Apple and the iMac could be the best thing to happen to the industry. those cute machines will bring more parents and their kids into the world of computers, and that is what we need.
Schwinn always emphasized selling that first bike to a kid. You sell him the first bike, and you have him for life.
I think Apple understands that.
photosMy Photostream
No actually. Very few designers will use flatscreens because the colors are not consistant. It's already very difficult to match printed colors to colors on screen, and I for one avoid doing so whenever possible. It would be a damn lot harder if I couldn't shift my head any.
LCDs will probably never overcome this flaw. I'm hoping that plasma or color-changing polymers or something will work better. Sadly, this means I'm stuck with CRTs for another 10 years at least.
(also LCDs will always be expensive compared to CRTs because of the difficulty in manufacturing them. LCD plants are built on a 'glass mountain')
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
But without the capacity for additional internal IDE drives, it seems like it would be basically a toy in the video editing world.
Not to flame, this is true though.
No one, and I mean No one at all ever has used IDE for serious video editing. You can put 500 TerraBytes worth of IDE drives in a machine and it is still a toy for video editing.
That is why most macs ever released have had SCSI.
And now Firewire.
Also there is NO capture.
That is what firewire is. Digital Video. It goes from the tape in the camera to ram (or hard drive) no Analog to Digital conversion necessary.
Perhaps your web browser window is too wide.
It's the web browser's job to format text so that you can read it, not the page author's job. When people start treating HTML as a layout language, it becomes impossible.
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Haven't we been over this? I use my floppy drive a lot. Mostly to boot up Linux, and then also to transfer HTML documents and source code from school to home. While floppy are small, they are on almost every computer, which gives it a HUGE user base. I guess for a business it's totally dead, but for the home, well, not quite.
Do not mock the mighty beige Mac keyboard. Those things are solid. They feel great. They use reverse wired phone cords, with jacks on the front of the case. They have their own processors.
Only two keyboards stand supreme above the beige Mac keyboards. The first is the Apple Extended II keyboard (affectionately known as the Nimitz) and the other is the original IBM PC keyboard, which weighs more than many men.
Microsofts keyboards aren't even made out of solid battleship steel! And people buy that junk?
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
mmmm... Woz IIgs... mmmmm....
-- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
Oh, yes, certainly the new iMac is 2.5x faster at everything than the K6-2 400. These marketroids must be stopped!
And, I dunno about graphics boards, but they compared the iMac's Rage 128 to a Rage Pro Turbo-equipped Celeron system ... how meaningful is that?
Note: this post should not be taken as an endorsement of the inherent superiority of the x86 architecture to that of the PPC -- I just hate these misleading benchmarks.
"Oh, I hope he doesn't give us halyatchkies," said Heinrich.
The question now is, how cheap are you going to be able to get the old iMacs for. If these are only $999-$1499, the older models should be downright cheap!
I don't know to much about Mac's, but if the older version will run Linux... they are going to make, some great, cheap X terminals... One in the Kitchen, one in the Living room to server up MP3's, one in the bedroom as an Alarm clock... Cool!
/* CDM */
Yeah, but they sure as hell can't boot *Windows* off a CD can they. That's the point. You get a fully functioning OS of a bootable CD on the Mac.
It's a Unix system - I know this.
Not according to the Apple Store hotline. The new iMacs don't require OS9, and will ship with 8.6 until OS9 releases. One rep told me late October OS9 release. Another said unknown and the only way to be sure was to wait for OS9 release and order then.
Funny thing is... when I tried to order a new iMac, it told me 20 day wait... which would be late October!
Anyone know the real answer to whether the new iMac will immediately ship with OS9 (or must we wait)?
How much does the average (or even high end) user REALLY use removable media, aside from CDs? I haven't used a floppy disk in either my PC at home OR my Mac(s) at work in years even before the iMacs first came out. I have a built in Zip drive in my Blue G3 at work, but I can count on one hand the number of times that I've used it.
The floppy served us well, but face it, it's DEAD. What fits on a floppy, anyway? Nothing of note, certainly. In the age of File Servers, Intranets, Extranets, and Internets, re-writable removable media isn't all that necesary.
Our advertising agency does virtually ALL media delivery electronically through AP AdSend or Wam!Net, with a smidgeon of ISDN running around, and all intra-office file sharing is accomplished through our file servers.
All hail the benevolent Floppy! Her years were long, hard, and well served... but her day is gone.
woof!
I watched (okay listened mostly -- slow modem) to the live webcast. Jobs still knows how to manipulate a crowd. The new iMacs are impressive for what they are. The redesigned cases and reformualted colors (more translucency, and brighter (if you can imagine)) are sure to turn just as many heads as the old ones. The new sound system looks good (the sub-woofer is a $99 USB add-on (and really shows how far Apple is able to take plug & play).
;-)
These machines are all convection-cooled. No fan. That makes them quieter than anything on the market. I know a big complaint about the original iMac was how noisy its fan was. Well, the fan is out. (just don't plan on overclocking any of these new iMacs).
The top-end iMac ($1499) features digital video editing and authoring software built-in, as well as FireWire (the only iMac to have it).
Upgrading the new iMacs should also be easier, thanks to a swing-down door which gives direct access to the memory and airport card slots.
But the thing to remember is that this is still a machine sqaurely targeted at the computer/illiterate/phobic. Slashdotters in general need not apply. Might make one heck of a Linux box, though
How can you possibly judge something to be a failure when it hasn't even been available for a month yet? The only failure I've seen on Apple's part concerning the iBook is the failure to make as many iBooks as people are buying... that's hardly a failure on the iBook's part (if anything it's a great success for the iBook).
Wow, 11 replies to my short post. I guess I hit a nerve. :-)
Well, I have to thank all the Mac zealots out there for educating me on PowerPC power consumption and heat output.
My turn.
My AMD K6-II running at 350 MHz never goes above 75 degrees or so. I know: I have a temperature monitor attached to it. The CPU is far from the primary source of heat in a computer.
The power supply, hard drive spindle motors, and pushing-the-limit graphics hardware are what generate the heat. My hard drives hover around 90 degrees, and that is with two fans blowing directly on them. My NVidida Riva TNT seems to idle at 110 degrees, and gets warmer under heavy use.
Please go on to tell me how the same PC hard drives and video chipset that Apple uses somehow runs cooler in the iMac?
As far as the floppy drive is concerned, yes, Apple has sold tons of iMacs without floppy drives. And the number one iMac accessory? You guessed it -- rewritable, removable storage.
Do not get me wrong -- I am not advocating the venerable 1.44MB floppy disk for modern use. However, I think Apple was wrong to ignore the huge installed base of existing Macs with 1.44 MB floppies. Furtheremore, I believe that providing a system without backup capablility is reckless. Apple should have picked something to take the place of the floppy drive.
I think the SuperDrive would have been a good choice -- backwards compatability and good sized storage at the same time. Alternatively, the Zip drive has a large installed base, and you can sacrifice backwards compatability. Heck, a combination CD+DVD+CD-RW wouldn't even need extra space.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Go back and read my post.
The microprocessor is not the source of most of the heat in a system.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
I have first hand experience with iMacs as NCs. Our iMacs at the office boot faster off the net than they boot off their hard disks.
I classify that as efficient.
I haven't used my floppy drive in ages. In fact, it's so much encrusted in dust that it's probably not usable by now, unless I were to give it a really good clean up.
Be flabbergasted if you will. But more than 2 million people out there seem to think as I do that floppies are out. Just as 5inch floppies were when Apple "forcefully" ditched them for the 3inch floppies.
...and no fan. That's right: No fan. So now iMac is not just the coolest personal computer out there. It's also the quietest. (http://www.apple.com/imac/features.html )
:)
This makes me worry. The new iMac is a pretty cool design from a pure hardware standpoint. But leaving out the fan might be a bad idea. Half the home-market PCs these days have heat problems with at least one, often two, fans in them. Leaving it out entirely may lead to heat-related failures down the road.
And still no floppy drive. I mean, okay, I can see that a few people don't use it, and others need more then 1.44 MB. So bundle a SuperDrive on some models, then, and have a low-end unit without the floppy if you want. But having no removable, rewritable media is still a dumb idea, IMNSHO.
What next, no keyboard?
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
The iMacs have always been great consumer boxes with one of the big complaints that @ $1199 how can they compete with <$1K or lower wintel machines. Alot of those cheap wintel machines get that way via rebates for ISP contracts. Apple finally jumped on that bandwagon. Compuserve is offering $400 rebates on iMacs purchageed through J&R and CompUSA with a 2 year contract. That brings the low end model (enough for alot of consumers) down to $599, the DV down to $899 and the DV SE to $1099. That seems like an excelent pricepoint to me. Hawks (ya know, one of these days I gotta get me a /. login)
smart desicions in the product design stage - the true reason behind Apples revival (and I don't mean Flavors) I mean strokes of briliance like dropping the ADB bus from the original Imac and sticking on USB - that way USB makers had to make drivers for iMacs (since iMac was the only platform that addopted USB in high numbers). the same tactic Apple is appling to Wireless networking (with Airport - latching on to an emarging standard early, ensuring support from thirs party manufacturers)
The new design also highlights some interesting design desicions.
The original iMac was about Industrial design and esthetics (as well as simplicity and access to the net) the new iMac is about sound quality and home digital videos.
It still remains to be seen if digital Video will become as big as Desk top publishing (which is one of the things Jobs said in his Keynote). Personaly I'm not convinced of this, the prices of Digital cam corders are still too high for it to become practicle in the consumer space, IMHO.
But the thing that Might actualy work to make the new iMac a best seller, is the sound speaker system cuppled with the DVD drive. I am kind of puzzled why they didn't debut a set of additional speakers for the full serround effect, But I'm sure some fast USB periferal maker will jump on the opertunity soon ennough.
The fact that the new machine has no fan, and is therfore persumably quite ennough to be concidered a consumer Hi-fi device is also a interesting point. now all thats missing for the collage student is a MP3 player that can get MP3 files from a remote computer using wireless networking..
--------------------------------
-=-=-=-=-
-=-=-=-=-
My mom's going to kick you in the face!
Oh boy! More fruity goodness from the same people that brought you AppleTalk! *grumble*
Good Lord! We know AppleTalk sucked, but that's a many-year-old technology. You would have done better to say "Oh Boy! More fruity goodness from the same people that brought you FireWire!"
Fact is, Apple's been producing lots of exciting new technologies that go way beyond the "sexy look," as you so aptly put it. The sexy look is just Apple's way of catching your attention so you'll take a closer look and (hopefully) say "hey! this looks like a really good deal! I want one!"
As for something better than a "translucent port-a-potty," why don't you have a look at the new G4's? In addition to a really cool industrial design, the G4 Macs are really fast and (finally!) competitively priced! The Programming Board at Dartmouth* has one or two of these, and they're just incredible. Now, if I can just get them to install LinuxPPC...
The point is, Apple's come a long way, and they have a lot more to offer than bright colors. I can't wait for the 1Ghz copper G4's!
*As always, my opinions are my own, and not necessarily those of Dartmouth College or any affiliated organization.
Tomsrtbt fits on a floppy. :-)
----
----
Open mind, insert foot.
How about the slot load DC/DVD a la a car stereo CD player? Maybe more to break? Awe, no more drink holder jokes...
Apple is still obviously trying to drive the USB accessory market by still offering that crappy keyboard and mouse, along with the lack of removeable media. I think they are smart for doing it. The Wintel market is sure not doing much for USB. USB should have taken over already, but it hasn't, except for Apple machines.
The iMac needs no fan because the PowerPC runs so cool. It is a good chip design, and I wish my computer made no noise. Then I could leave it on without disturbing my sleep.
The ass shots of the iMac are kinda funny looking, check them out at Apple's site. Their product marketing has gone too far with that one.
EC
EverCode
Give me a break. When you sell millions of machines per year you are always going to get a few that slip into the cracks. Comprehensive surveys like JD Power always rate Apple service and support very highly.
As far as speed goes, how the hell can you make a statement like that? The results are so dependent on what application is used that the only thing you can say for sure is that if you want to run MS Office, stick with Windows (big surprise).
please remember that Apple didn't create FireWire, they didn't create USB, they didn't create the G4, they didn't create the CODECs which power QuickTime, etc etc etc... don't give them too much credit now. =)
Also, us nerds should know that the reason they are fruity isn't to impress us. It's to impress the dumb american computer illertate consumer. To make it an appliance to them, and to make it look less intimidating.
iMacs have nothing to do with us. The G4 Professional on the other hand... =)
_________
My name is Aaron Landry, and I approve this message.
On one of the pages, they describe the audio system as having "bass performance normally heard only in $50,000 automobiles." Who here uses car stereo technology as a yardstick for audio quality? Then again, who uses SPEC marks as a yardstick for computer quality? Oh, wait, never mind.
Oh, well. Typical market-speak from Apple. This is about par for the course, I guess.
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
I already have 5 computers. The new iMac is really cool in my ever so humble opinion, it's what most people want a computer to be. You turn it on and it works with no setup and few wires. If you naysay the lack of a fan, stop yourself. The PowerPC chip runs very very cool because it uses this wonderful thing we call copper. Copper lets the chips run on a lower voltage (1.1v) instead of the 3.3v for Intel's chips which means you get alot less heat and alot less powerr consumption. The G3 in my Powerbook is the same chip in a desktop Mac. My powerbook is the only one of my computers that I could leave running alnight without keeping me awake. I think it's also a great idea to include Airport hardware with the iMac, it really looks like technology thats going to beat the pants off phone line and power line networking in the home especially because it uses the 802.3 standard so any device you buy can work on it. iWebpads in the future maybe? I did notice something funny about the iMac though, when you turn it off it wilkl save it's state and whe nyou powerup again you can start where you left off, this is a feature found only before on their Powerbooks (either when you put the screen down or the battery is about to die also when you set it to sleep) up it just puts that info back into the RAM, I'm not so sure if thats so good for a desktop but it'll be interesting to see if it's a featurew we'll see in alot of PC's from now on.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
If it weren't for the first post b.s. I would have moderated you up for being funny.
The new iMac is pretty good, but the OS 9 demo was interesting as well. If you plug in a USB/Firewire device that your computer doesn't have drivers for, it automatically downloads the correct driver. Cool! It's a shame Linux seems to be almost deliberately obtuse when you need to add new hardware. I think I'll get a tangerine DV iMac.
I can't wait for the ability to plug-and-play RAM, and extra processors, while the computer's still on...
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
apple may not be doing the right thing with benchmarks, but how do you play fair with the intel/microsoft crowd (the politicians of modern technology)?
;) kuma
otoh, apple is doing *exactly* the right thing by consumers with the imac... usb and firewire are easy to use interfaces, a dozen removable media *formats* (not just products) will be available if-and-when the new computer user needs heavy-duty archiving. anything other than cd/dvd rom becomes a potential liability.
if you need scsi, get the supercomputer
I run BeOS as my primary desktop OS and unfortunately it does not support playback of encoded DVD movies. This support may appear in R5
Details may be found here.