Slashdot Mirror
Apple Re-Reverses G4 Order Cancellations
uncleFester writes "ZDNN appears to be reporting that Apple appears to be reversing its decision to reinstate all cancelled G4 orders, except for "a few orders" (probably machines in the production pipeline). From this latest switch, anyone wanting a G4 is going to have a hard time even knowing if they have one on order, let alone physically receiving the box."
Before anyone gets out of shape, take a visit to the usual Mac web sites:
http://www.macnn.com
http://www.macopinion.com
http://www.macweek.com
http://www.maccentral.com
http://www.macosrumors.com
You'll notice that none of them seem to have any sort of agreement on what the hell is going on. Remember people, it's not wise to base your judgements on something coming from ZDNet - their style of reporting was most likely to rely on one or maybe two of the above sites and cite them as 'anonymous sources'.
The fact is, nobody really knows what the hell is going on. Everything seems to point to the fact that everyone is getting their G4s at the original price except for some people who ordered early via resellers.
Now, if Apple really is going back and forth on this, well, I don't know what to say - they may have started dipping into the 'special' Kool Aid. On the other hand, this could simply be a case of one side of Apple not knowing what the hell the other side is doing (does anyone know if they use Outlook/Exchange over there?). Admittedly Apple has an odd enough history to make something like this halfway plausible, but remember who you are checking on for facts before you go apeshit...
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
- Jeff
You can put the blame on Motorola for the G4-500 fiasco.
But Apple is solely to blame for 2 actions, which will anger customers far more than not having the 500Mhz processor.
1) Cancelling pre-orders
2) Downgrading processors without reducing the prices
The rationale for #1 is directly connected to #2. In order to protect their profit margin, pre-orders must be cancelled in order to make people order into the 3 price tiers.
The pathetic excuse of DRAM prices is ridiculous. Apple carries a 30-35% margin on their G4 line [26& overall, but G4 is higher margin than iMac]. That means ~$750 profit on a $2500 system. They can afford to eat the DRAM price rise. The quarterly profit will be severely hampered, but they wouldn't expose themselves to lawsuits and bad PR.
It sounds like the financial guys are in charge, while customer service is at the bottom of the pile. Think Different. The stock price is more important than your customers.
ZDNet has egg on it's face this morning, along with a lot of slashdot readers who jump at the first opportunity to trash Apple.
Apple has issued a press release this morning stating in part "Apple® today announced it will honor all orders for its Power Macintosh® G4 computers placed before Wednesday, October 13, at the originally quoted prices, including those placed with the Company's resellers which were accompanied by a purchase order, or a cash or credit card deposit."
They're changing their mind... No they aren't... Now they are again. Apple's starting to look like Amiga.
It's strange how so many of its fanatics characterize Apple as the greatest company in the world, who only has the best interests of its customers in mind. I'll be amazed to see what kind of FUD the Mac-fanatics come up with to make this whole flimflam excusable.
But seriously, the original G4-cancellation announcement was wrong (in the immoral sense). Telling your paying customers the product they ordered simply won't be available but they can have a lesser product for its original price is tantamount to a slap in the face. I imagine the flak they caught over that caused them to make the change they did, which was the Right thing to do. Now this? This like slapping your customers in the face, apologizing and promising to make amends, then slapping them again.
I hate Marketing departments...
MoNsTeR
I just can't wait to see what happens to their stock price on Monday. I imagine it will not fare very well.
-B
Bring back the Woz!
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Book(n): Utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman
Well actually this doesn't really seem to be the case at least around here. My sister's 400 ordered from the Apple Store is apparently on it's way. And the local Mac store has quite a few 400's on the way. (Which means two in the office on Wednesday!)
Plus after a conversation with the owner of said store, this is not really hurting buisness as much as helping it. People are putting their money down sooner than later because the situation creates an I-gotta-get-mine-now feeling. Anyway...
-- I could prove I'm right, but I my hard drive's full.
Where does the law draw the line between "you can't have what we advertized and you paid for" and "we are fraudulant criminals, equivalent to the psychics and infomercials as seen on TV"? Not trying to be mean or accusational; it's just irony.
This is why I hate mail order - I never buy any equipment unless it's physically in the store and I can wheel the box out with my own hands.
I don't think this is going to hurt Apple much, mainly because the product is so strong. Apple customers love the product more than they hate the company's business practices. This is especially true with the new G4s and DV iMacs, which are looking like fantastic creations.
Where it might have an impact is on the Apple store. I've always wondered why people would buy from Apple, when they can get the same product from a retail computer store for less money. I know retailers are pretty clueless nowadays, but at least you have a nice clean transaction where you give them the money and they hand you a computer. Nothing beats that kind of immediacy.
Next time I buy a Mac, that's exactly what I'm going to do - no messups, clean transaction, I get my machine and walk away with it. Sorry, Apple Store.
D
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There's something I don't get here,
;-) - if the second is true, well they should have been more careful with their pre-anouncements, methinks. ;-))
if I'm agreeing to deliver a product to a client at a guaranted deadline and have suppliers I'm depended on to meet the deadline, I demand deadlines from them, too.
I make contracts with my suppliers where I write down fees for not delivering in time.
I set the fees at least as high as the fees I will have to pay because I cannot meet the timing.
Or I get a phrase in the suppliers contract which states that they have to cover my costs which arise when they fail to deliver in time.
Either apple is dumber than me in doing contracts (which I heavily doubt) or motorola denies to sign such terms. If the first is true - apple, you know where to find me
Oh, I forgot one possibility, perhaps motorola apple has to pay fees to apple and apple just wants to keep them for themselves. (big
Even in the very turbulent graphic boards market I haven't seen such corporate behaviour before.
Announcing vaporware - yes, for sure, but taking orders for vaporware (in the sense of being not ready for delivery) - no, never.
For all those bagging on Apple's PR ("slow death" please! look at the orders/stock recently) there was no flip flopping press releases. Their was one announcement and two letters to customers. Some cancelled orders were in fact filled and Apple sent those people letters. The Mac rumor-news Press TM picked in up and ran "Everyone's going to get your orders!" That was conjecture Not Apple.
:)
As a Mac (Not MAC people!) owner and Apple shareholder I am not outraged or concerned. How many "I used x but not anymore." messages appear hear for Apple, RedHat, Intel, etc. I don't reallly pay attention to them anymore. Apple will prosper and this will be like the whole G4 ROM block tempest in a teapot. (Everyone knows that the G4 upgrades are available now willl no action/reversal from Apple, right?) If I HAD ordered a 500mhz G4 I would be a little mad at Motorla, but hey -some Mhz +some RAM what is the big loss? Not much.
If these wild-cat boycotts worked/were even for real, Apple would of died after killing the Clones. Instead it's gotten 2x marketshare and 3+x stock price.
Disclaimer: Apple is a public corporation and should be trusted/not trusted to act as such. Apple is no one's mother Teresa it sells product for profit.
I can't think of how someone could post 5+ comments and have all 5 moderated down in 24 hours. That's not steep. And I can say negative things about the GPL and about GNU software and if my comments are generally insightful or informative and more then 'LINUX SUX MY A$$.' If the quality of this users posts are generally as devoid of thought as the flame he just directed at Malda, then I don't think he should be heard, at least not at a Score:1.
And don't give me tripe about the moderation being totally out in deep left field around here. Some moderators aren't good, but on the whole, unfair moderations are undone eventually. Lately, I've been reading a lot of score 2 comments that are not ALL pro-GPL.
And on the side, I'd have to say that GNOME, KDE, XFree86, the kernel itself, all are 'large programs.' So thank you, that last point was TOTALLY useless. And honestly, V4L (Video4Linux) is still new, so you should start to see video editing programs come. Neccessity is the mother of invention.
The main reason is that there is no mac competition. If you really want something that runs macos then you have to go to Apple and if they screw up-you're screwed.
Interesting theory, but it doesn't hold water. If Apple had competition in the Mac box arena it would make no difference here. Motorola's inability to deliver would mess up everyone equally.
This scenario isn't really news. They've already done this with Windows NT 4.0, and will most likely do this with NT 5.0 as well. So if ZD reported that MS was going to stick it to the little guys because they could I sure wouldn't be surprised.
why don't we just wait until apple gives some kind of clear, definitive statement on this? like, maybe just wait a day or two, until we have some idea what is going on? Or would you rather just go on with your current strategy of reprinting and magnifying and making a big deal out of what are essentially rumors?
I mean, if apple did cancel the orders that wasn't very nice of them; if they're going to give people who ordered G4s, discounts, that's nice. But do you have to know one way or the other right this instant?? can't you wait a bit until we can have some kind of news report that is definately true one way or the other? instead of the columbine/lewinsky-style drudge reporting we have now?
Damn kids these days. No patience whatsoever. they have to have instant gratification. Can't wait for reliable reports on anything, have to know immediately even if it means it's maybe innacurate..
Hey, wait a minute, i just remembered-- i'm 16, i'm one of the damn kids. and the whole instant-gratification demands in news were brought about by CNN, which was started by baby boomers, and fed by tabloids bought and run by baby boomers.. Hmm. Aw, whatever.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Anyone what effect this is having on the num of new macs purchased? macintosh stock?
h _apple_2.html
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Try these two links.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/19991016/tc/tec
Wall Street analysts were mostly unfazed, saying they did not expect a big drop in customers or orders.
``It's better than nothing,'' said Lou Mazzucchelli, an analyst at Gerard Klauer Mattison & Co., who predicted customer outrage
when Apple first announced the pricing switch. ``Is it going to make everyone happy, no. On the other hand, I really think
they did have an issue with increased expenses and they are trying to make the best of a bad situation.''
Mazzucchelli estimated that about 5,000 customers have pre-ordered G4 systems from the Apple Store before Oct. 13. The
remaining G4 orders that have yet to be fulfilled were from retail stores or distributors, he said.
``I'm not worrying about it,'' said Daniel Kunstler, an analyst at J.P. Morgan.
and
http://quote.yahoo.com/quotes?SYMBOLS=AAPL&deta
As you can see the stock price has gone up two-and-a-half times this year - following a doubling last year. If you had bought Apple stock at it's low, you would have increased your money 5x.
Where I work there are the Mac user and those (everyone else) who laugh at Apple's blunders. I wish apple didn't make it so easy.
Are you telling me that Intel and Microsoft don't make blunders?
So you're a computer company dependent on another company for your chips. Fairly normal. Your chip supplier tells you to expect X number of chips and A, B, and C speeds. You plan your configurations, price points, and advertising around these numbers. Then several weeks after you've announced your spiffy new computers, your chip supplier calls you up and says "Oops, we goofed, we won't be able to give you as many chips as we thought and we won't have any running at A Mhz. Sorry!" What are you, as a computer manufacturer, going to do? If Apple had changed processor speeds and price points, their low-end pro system would cost less than an iMac, and they'd be losing tons of revenue because they wouldn't be selling anything at their highest price point. And the reason that they're only honoring a few orders is that they just don't have enough chips to fill all the preorders.
Apple is between a rock and a hard place: if they adjusted their price points to make their customers happy they'd see their profits and stock price drop and their shareholders would be unhappy. So they maintained their price points and a lot of customers are unhappy. If there's anyone to blame here it's Motorola for not meeting demand for the chips. Call me cynical, but I have a feeling that if this was anyone but Apple people would be acting a lot more reasonably.
Another Apple story is posted to SlashDot and another series of pro and con messages are posted. I am glad to see no "They are not GPLed so they suck" messages (although they may have been moderated down).
One comment rally struck me. It seems to be on a lot of people's lips when an "Apple screwed up again" news story comes out (even like this one, without a shred of evidence backing it) - "It seems that Apple, once again, has begun another slow death."
What? Is that like "multiple successful suicide"? For years people have been forecasting the end of Apple. "Apple is dying. Apple cannot survive this time."
Guess what- Apple is still here. No, their market share never seems to go anywhere. They do good (PowerPCs, switching over to the PCI architecture, and so on) and they do bad (flamable PowerBooks, cancelling clones). And yet they are just as strong as ever. Never growing stronger and, at the same time, never growing weaker.
Why is that? Well, with everyone's favorite monopoly, Microsoft, around, Apple can only tread water. It has a good product (wheter you choose to admit it or not, MacOS is a decent evironment. There are better out there, but not a whole lot), but not good enough to take MS down (can anyone, single-handedly?).
Apple does have a good customer base, and good customer loyalty. Apple has been smart enough to know that interoperability is key. Starting many years ago, all shipping Macs are capable of reading PC disks (floppy and otherwise). TCP/IP became an imporant form of networking that Apple soon integrated (MacOS 9 includes AppleScripting over TCP/IP!). These facts keep it afloat, despite PR screwups.
So where does that leave Apple? Not able to break the 10-15% marketshare because of MS, but with a strong enough customer base that it is not going to fail. I would not call Apple a "niche" company, since there is not set "niche" that is customers fall into. Rather, Apple is a by-product of the current monopolistic state we find ourselves in with dektop PCs.
Perhaps Linux-followers have a lot to learn from Apple.
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
as some huge screw-up or the end of Apple? Apple makes just a little more than 500mhz G4 computers. This problem only really affects the people who are wanting to buy the 500mhz G4 which is about 20% of all the people buying the G4 line. Because of their price the G4 400 counts for a much larger percentage of G4 sales then the 450 and 500 combined. This will not sink Apple in any way. You can also extrapolate the people buying the 450 and 500 are probably the niche market-graphic designers, digital video/audio authoring, publication-which probably have damn fast G3's already and just wanted the next step up to up their productivity a few hours. For Windows users you ought to be rooting Apple on, without them USB would be Intel's wet dream that never really caught on. The iMac is what really started the USB wildfire going, I bought a system in '97 that had USB ports, no one really gave a sh*t. Then the iMac and it's USB toys came out and everyone was touting their "new" USB ports on systems. Linux/unix users should be thankful that Apple is there to keep people pondering Windows alternatives, Linux would have never become the media frenzy it is now had there not been Mac geeks making a name for the non-M$ world before most of us ever heard of Linux.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
MacNewsNetwork (www.macnn.com) has the latest word that places like AppleInsider and ZD have things mixed up, and that Apple will do it's best to fulfill all AppleStore orders as ordered, but those in the retail chain (compusa, macmall, etc) will be out of luck. Apple was unable to provide our University with information about our order though, I'm sure they are playing it safe..
Why does Slashdot let this drivel through the gate? And better yet, why do so many Slashdot readers believe it? Slashdot is supposed to be about not swallowing things based on face value. Apple has issued ONE, SINGULAR, UNO press release on this matter, entitled "Apple Reconfigures Power Mac G4 Processor Speeds to Match Chip Availability." Whatever ZDNet and MacWeek said is their problem. Let's review Slashdot's stories on this over the past several days:
Wednesday: According to MacInTouch, Apple just reduced the processing speed of G4s by 50Mhz, without a price reduction or change in configuration, and cancelled all outstanding orders.
Thursday: According to MacInTouch "Apple has reversed the cancellation of existing Power Mac G4 orders, according to impeccable sources, and is calling back customers to explain
Sunday: "ZDNN appears to be reporting that Apple appears to be reversing its decision to reinstate all cancelled G4 orders, except for "a few orders"
So, for some odd reason, the first two days are pointed at MacInTouch, but the last one is pointed at ZDNet. If anyone had actually looked at MacInTouch today, they would realize that MacInTouch has (correct) information that directly contradict's MacWeek's:
As we reported first on Oct. 14, Apple reversed its decision to cancel outstanding Apple Store orders for Power Mac G4 computers and to force customers to re-order. [...] (Sources say that a contradictory report, citing Apple spokesperson Rhona Hamilton, has since been retracted.)
MacNN.com (the most reputable of the sites, IMNSHO), confirms this:
Our understanding is that all Apple Store orders before the "reconfiguration announcement" will be honored, as part of Apple's reversal on its G4 Cancellation policy. [...] (Muddying the issue is a MacWEEK report that claims Apple will only be reversing a limited number of Apple Store orders.)
If Slashdot (or readers) cannot responsibly research and report on Apple, it should cease doing so.
- Scott
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Scott Stevenson
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
It's hard for me to imagine a company's marketing dept. allowing someone to go public, and change their minds this much in a row. Seems to me, in order for marketing, PR, and other such departments to allow this, there must be some real NASTY delays. Perhaps more than what we're hearing about?
I for one, don't use a MAC, so it's no sweat off my back. However, I can't help but feel for the mass of business owners that had theirs on mass order, awaiting their arrival. Oftentimes, as is happening where I work, companies make plans AROUND the fact and around the date they are to receive new equipment.
Point? Well, don't really have one. But you've got to wonder how many hard core MAC users this is upsetting. Quite obviously, to have something pre-ordered, you either REALLY like what it has to offer, are REALLY devoted to the organization, or simply NEED it BADLY, and very fast.
I'd love to hear from some MAC users, perhaps even some people who had these on pre-order, and get their take on the situation.
Apple support rep: They're here! No wait... They're not! Oh, updated info - They're back! No, wait... management says... damn, they're gone again. Oooh! They're back according to manufacturing. WAIT! hold the presses inventory says we're short! No... Marketing says...
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Every impression of Steve Jobless I've seen is that he's a madman. He probably got to work on the morning of the chip warnings, yelled and screamed "YOU GUYS ARE NOT BEING PAID TO BE A BUNCH OF CLOWNS!!!!! I NEED ARTISTS!!!!!!" at his employees for the chips being defective and to ordered ramped up production of defective 500Mhz computers to stop a PR disaster.
Steve yelled as loud as he could at Motorala engineers "ARE YOU VIRGINS!!?!" to push the defective chips out while Motorola engineers probably winced that morning and wondered what the idiot was doing. Then Apple started getting complaints from customers.
At 3am fielding a sea of customer complaints Steve's engineers probably started yelling at him "I'M SO SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR ABUSE ON THIS PROJECT!!!!" for being such a madman. Steve finally exploded and yelled "ALL RIGHT! These chips don't work. Stop production!!!!" Definitely a guy you don't want to work for.
- A.P.
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"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Well, your university discount certainly makes it much cheaper, but sadly that's not something anyone not in the university can legally claim.
However, it's true that we folks who live in massive urban areas tend to take our conveniences for granted. Within an hour's drive, I have at least two CompUSAs and two - no, three - Fry's electronics outlets.
However, that's still no reason to take Apple's lousy non-student pricing. There are any number of fine online Mac retailers, and they all comfortably undercut Apple.
D
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Is it me or wouldn't it be a good thing to simply wait for a formal Apple announcement as to their decision.
/. most of the post I've read in this post would not have been made. There's no reason to give more credibility to ZDNet because they're talking about Apple and citing an unnamed source then if they had been talking about the latest Kernel upgrade and quoting also an unnamed source.
Moreover, if a message on ZDNet had been posted about anything of usual interest to
Anyways, www.macintouch.com seems to offer an interesting spin on the ZDNet story; one which makes more sense and one which satisfies my curiosity until the next press release from Apple.
I agree 5 down moderations in 24 hours is kind of steep and the moderation is pretty biased when you say something negative about GPL. What if 5 stories on Linux video editing get posted on 24 hours? Not many positive words to say on that. Video editing software takes a lot of code and Linux enthusiasts don't like large programs so you don't see it.
It took them about 48 hours to reverse their policy. They were getting a lot of negative publicity about this thing. This probably caught them by surprise, hence their nervous reaction. After the latest anouncement I think they are back on track again.
Jilles
What about Motorola? They were only having problems producing the 500 Mhz machines. Is this reason for Apple to raise prices or downgrade speeds on the 450 and 400 Mhz models? Persoanlly, I think they are using the 500 Mhz problems as smokescreens for their own problems.
(currently testing something about signatures here)