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WINE 991031 (Hallowine) Released
Egonis Similaris writes " WINE 991031 (Hallowine) has been released." My main personal WINE wish is to use it to run Quickbooks. Has anyone else gotten QB to work reliably under WINE?
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Actually, they released a patch that allows WABI to run on > 256 color displays. It will only use 256 colors, but it can cope with 16 and 32 bit displays.
They also released a patch that allows sound to work. I can now get the cheesy Win 3.1 startup sound. Ah! The nostalgia! (or is that nausea?)
I have no idea why OS/2. I work for a leasing company, and will not be the fellow actually using it. From the paperwork, it looks like they'll be high-capacity intranet/workgroup servers. The company is simultaneously early-returning the six NT boxen we leased them last year, so draw your own conclusion.
.sig: Now legally binding!
-- .sig files go when they die?
Child: Mommy, where do
Mother: HELL! Straight to hell!
I've never been the same since.
Just like driving a car:
(D) to go forward
(R) to go backward
WINE Is Not an Emulator
Because everythings native it doesn't really EMULATE anything, it REPLACES or DUPLICATES
It'll be there, somewhere, on their website, as that's where I first found out what it meant.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Seems that the last thing I heard about Wine is that it had really kinda been taken under Corel's wing (with Corel's paid developers) and was working up to being a devel environment. I'm not too sure how many people remember this, but I'm curious to know what the heck is happening with all of this.
1) I have never found a decent use for wine. I don't really use the prod apps for Win9x, and if I want to play games, it's best to go native.
2) Corel made it sound like the wine project was going the route of making it easier to greate cross-platform code for Windows and Linux. Was this the "entire" project? Or was this just the end they were working on? Is the "main" project still emulation while Corel runs a splinter project concerned with creating an IDE and backing libs??
What Corel was gamming on to sounded interesting, but there is definately room for both. I noticed a few posts mentioned that app support seemed to be getting worse lately. Is this the result of the "new direction", or what?
The final possibility is that I read a press release with very little basis in reality. (as with most press releases.)
So I'm looking for some of you "Wineeies" to come on down and school me up on the wine skinny.
Muchas Gracias!
~Jason Maggard
"If we ban hemp due to it's relationship to marajuana, we should ban grapes due to their relationship to wine."
Well, most viruses are hard-coded to windows, I would think, and wouldn't work without the apropriate filestructure.
On the otherhand, it would be posible for a virus writer to target Wine along with 9x and NT if they really wanted.... (of course, you still have to deal with per-user security on linux, A virus couldn't kill linux unless it ran as root)
--
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I just signed a PO for five IBM servers with brand spanking new copies of IBM OS/2 Warp on them from the factory. IBM still supports it!
.sig: Now legally binding!
Wine has always been 2 projects in one. The actual Windows API reimplementation (WineLib) and a binary loader (Wine, or "the emulator part" as some people refer to it) which loads windows EXE and DLL files and hooks them up with the API stuff in WineLib. The binary loader itself is basically small and bugless - .EXE files are typically a lot less sophisticated than Unix ELF binaries and shared libraries so there's not much to do there in the first place.
:)
:)
So, Corel has put a lot of work into the Windows reimplementation end of things, reorganizing Wine's COM support and header files so you can now compile MFC (which contains a fair amount of MS "insider coding", although luckily you get the source with MSVC++) under WineLib. They also paid Cygnus to do the anonymous struct and union patches which everyone now gets to enjoy in GCC 2.95.2. As a result of this work they now have a common codebase between Windows and Linux for their office applications.
The best part is they've been willing to do all this work to the specs of Wine's current "Linus", Alexandre Julliard. So wine's gotten a ton of good professional work on stuff the regular spare-time developers would have taken much longer on. We now have a solid infrastructure for Win32 threading, impressive OLE/COM support, a much more debugged user interface, and lots of common controls.
As a result it's almost more accurate to say Corel was under Wine's wing - they've had patches rejected due to conflicts with Alexandre's architectural vision, and promptly resubmitted them with everything fixed. I wish all companies involved in open source were that way
Anyway, the first stage of that involvement's coming to a close. Corel naturally won't tell us their actual progress with their apps, but they are known to be working on an installer now and their recent patches have been for progressively more obscure bugs. Incidentally, their work has made a lot of other applications work much better too. ModPlug Tracker, a popular Windows tracker-style music application, now works with nary a glitch on Wine. Less than 6 months ago it was unstable and full of graphical glitches.
And as far as claims that app support is getting worse, that's generally false. As with any large project there are frequently bugs that break certain apps, and sometimes apps work accidentally due to combinations of bugs and stop when that bug is fixed. Most people track the "official" releases instead of CVS so something breaks and they don't see that it's fixed again the next day in CVS and end up with the wrong impression
-Ian, wine-devel but not speaking for 'em.
I have not personally tried to work Quickbooks under any other platform, including WINE, but I DO know that there is a plan in the works for later versions of the program (Quicken also) to work under a Linux Kernel.
Stay tuned for more details.
*Carlos: Exit Stage Right*
"Geeks, Where would you be without them?"
*Carlos: Exit Stage Right*
"Geeks, Where would you be without them?"
"Got Linux?"
Unlike WINE, Project Odin actually converts the Windows app into a native OS/2 application. The EXE and DLL's are modified so that OS/2 can load them, and a Win32 equivalent of the DLL's is provided. Odin also has a very cool feature where it intercepts the loader and actually convers a Windows EXE/DLL into an OS/2 EXE/DLL on the fly. This lets you run your Windows apps under OS/2 in a truly seamless fashion.
Actually, that's exactly what WINE does. Remember: Wine Is Not an Emulator, it just converts winxx executables to ELF, then links it into winelib. That's why you can't run wine on other platforms besides the x86.
--------
"I already have all the latest software."
Which versions of Word and Excel can you run? Office 97 and Office 2000 require Internet Explorer to be installed, and the licensing terms for IE try to stop you running it on any platform other than Windows. This fits in with Microsoft's view that IE is part of the operating system, but it's also a way of effectively tying Office to Windows.
Are the Wine people working on a replacement for the DLLs from Internet Explorer, so that we can run all the MS and non-MS applications that depend on it?
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Not so true any more. It's possible to run useful applications on a 100% Microsoft Free(tm) system.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Well yea, and ICQ :) if I could get those two working right (sorry but kicq is still crap) I'd say goodbye to windows forever, welll after a found a good minesweeper clone :)
Programs that work with wine says, "In particular, 16-bit versions of Word, Excel and Quicken do work well enough with Wine for many purposes, although they are by no means flawless."
And this page is dated Quarter 2 1996 - so I imagine Quicken works a whole lot better now.
The official list of apps that work is at WineHQ
Joseph Elwell.
I'm trying to convince her to switch to Linux, as it'll run -much- better, has drivers for ALL her hardware, and I suspect would be more intuitive for her. She's VERY reluctant to touch it, though, if it won't run her sofware, which is largely Windows 3.1-based.
I've looked through the software database, but it's so out-of-date, they might as well have a GIF of a question mark there, instead. But, if WINE is at (or even close to) the point of being usable, and can run banking Windows 3.1 software and Eudora, then I -may- be able to convince her to switch.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
It's a recursive acronym: WINE Is Not an Emulator.
This is just FUD put out by microsoft. The fact that the cunning bastards made the acronym recursive shows how desperate they were to hide the truth: that WINE is an acronym coined by the DOJ that stands for Windows Is Not Explorer.
Proof that WINE doesn't emulate Windows can be seen in the fact that every microsoft program you run doesn't install IE and reassociate jpegs therewith.
...it worked. Sort of. That is to say, you could load the program and go through some basic functions, but I certainly wouldn't try to print; Some of the layout was incorrect also.
However, this was back around June or so, and WINE's made fantastic progress since then (but then again, when isn't it making fantastic progress?). If the Win32 version doesn't work, btw, try the 16-bit one; That often helps (it certainly did with Quicken).
[Btw, at the time that I'm posting it, this isn't redundant. Should it become so later, I'd appretiate not being moderated down on that regard].
*RUNS SCREAMING INTO THE NIGHT*
SO smarty pants. What DOES it stand for HM HM!!! TELL ME WHY DON'T YOU! hehehe I feel better now.
Maby it stands for When Its Neat to Eat.
TOP TEN LIST of things WINE could stand for.
10. Where Is Nuke Exploding
9. Whats In Norms Email
8. Windows Is Normally Exploding
7. Windows Is Not Evolving
6. Why Is Norm Everlasting
5. Who is Norm Everybody?
4. What Is miNe problEm.
3. WINdows crashEd
2. WINdows cashEd
And the number one..possible choice of things WINE could stand for
1... Wine Is Not an Emulator
Twin is another attempt to make windows libraries. It is backed by a company, but GPL'd.
Twine is an attempt to mix twin & wine. However, since the licenses are different, it has to use the less-free license (GPL).
I think this is the first time I've heard of it since the announcement of twine; I can't say for certain whether it still exists, or ever would have been possible.
hawk
There was another package that was anounced on slashdot a few weeks ago about a "winelib" type programming package that is coming so people can just cross compile.. dunno if we will see that..
I get solitaire to run, i've had other programs run, but once they work *DON'T* upgrade or make any changes, or else it may blow up.
I'd like to see wine start from square one. They have plenty of code to scavange through, they have a HUGE amount of the API documented and coded, but the project has evolved into such a beast that it limits out any growth in a direction that wasn't planned for a few years back.
Make a 1.0 milestone, say in 1.0 we will support Windows 3.1 apps, in 1.1 we will support win32, in 2.0 we will support Win95, in 3.0 we will support NT or whatever it may be.. but make it work for one layer, produce a 1.0 binary, get it in use, get the quirks resolved, have the foundation, learn from your mistakes, if it needs some re-work, re-work it, and then evolve it on up (only after feature locks, and then feature planning)
I was using Quickbooks under WINE with limited success. I couldn't print at all and some reports would cause it to crash. But entering and reviewing invoices was okay. This was with a April'ish version of WINE.
DrWatt
No, your thinking about GNU=(G)NU is (N)ot (U)nix :)
LINUX simply is a take off from the name Linus and the word Unix.. Linus accually originally called it something based on minux.. though I forget, but the ftp site owners choose to call the directory it was stored in LINUX and the name sticked. Though it is sorta a backrym (an acronym created after the fact) like BASIC which was just indented to be a "Basic" programming language.. after the fact people said.. hmmmmm. that must stand for something and came up with some acronym.. of which I've currently blocked from memory, but I'm sure you could look up
Wine hmm
....
great piece of reverse engineering those actualy comitting code can brag for the rest of their lives those that moan shall
(bug reporting involes actualy finding out exactly whats wrong)
>>>ALOT of the software that runs on windows is only there because of the market demanded it now its their to stay
>>>Groupware big word but LOTUS ownes this and the server runs on linux and solaris and AS400 and whatever BUT the client still has way to many win32 Hooks in it for them to easily port it
(WAKE UP I WILL PAY LOADS OF MONEY FOR IT LOTUS)
these are all I use windows for
regards
john
a poor student @ bournemouth uni in the UK (a deltic so please dont moan about spelling but the content)
I called Intuit just now, she said that they cannot say if there is a native Linux version
planned.
She did say that I was only the SECOND PERSON to
ask for it.
Intuit: 1-800-446-8848
I have a hard time to believe that I am only the second person to ask for it.
Maybe we need an open source version of QuickBooks ?
Specifically, WABI cannot run any win 3.1 software that depends on the win32 extentions. This does leave a lot of software that can run, however. I do have 2 programs I would love to run under WABI that won't, due to this limitation: FrameMaker 5 and Pixar Typestry.
WABI works OK, but there are a few shortcomings. Quicken 98 runs, but I cannot access the modem or network under it, for some reason, so I cannot use it for online banking (Quicken requires that you register it before you can access the online banking features. Thanks, guys). SimCity 2000 (WIn 3.1 version) won't install.
Eventually, I plan on setting WABI up to that it will run in an Xnested server. Right now, it basically draws on the screen by itself, so its windows are always on top. Fairly annoying.
Of course, soon I plan to have a new PC capable of running VMWare, so I can use all of my current NT programs while still running Linux...
The 4.x Win32 Notes client has been functional under wine for some time. Most functionality is there and the stability is pretty good too. The 991031 wine release only improves on this. Now I just have to find time to try the R5.x Notes client (which hasn't worked well with previous wine releases). See the Notes for Linux Resource Page Here for more info.
Wine won't work for that. AOL uses some strange proprietary tcp/ip driver, but someone has reversed engineered it. I haven't tried it (I just saw it on freshmeat) but its worth a try.
Go to http://www.foo.org/james/aol/aolip.html
Well I guess my subject is decieving because there are multiple problems with wine. Before I start ranting about these problems I would like to make it clear that there is no disrespect meant towards the developement team of wine- they are doing a good job.
- In my personal experience with wine, the success of wine is greatly dependant upon native window files, dll's mostly. This is fine if you are dual booting or happened to have that hd with a windows partition on it. But I switched to an all linux box and do not want to waste the space on setting aside space to install a os that I will never use just so that I can have the libraries.
- This one is just really a extension of #1 (oh well)- there is no truly documented alternative to native windows libraries. I have never found any information on running with wine with foreign (non-M$) libraries. I hope this problem is quickly disproven in a flame!
- Everbody and their dog is using wine. This is good but bad. In my experience wine is not even beta quality, which is fine, but there is such a large user base. This might just be a large scale of the bazaar model but I am afraid that the current quality of wine coupled with the user base will give it a bad name.
- Wine seems to have very little focus. Wine seems to be implementing new windows stuff even thought they do not have all the basic old stuff down. I speculate this is because that wine is powered to some extent by the gamers who demand the new stuff for their games are willing to either patch or bitch about it until it is implemented.
Most people will say that the real problem is the last one that I stated, that simply has no focus. But in my humble little opinion my problem is currently the first on I stated.Looks to me like she should be using OS/2. It has the world's most powerful (and very intuitive) user interface, runs Windows 3.1 apps really well, and has great support for older hardware. She can install her Windows apps onto an HPFS partition, so her disk I/O will skyrocket. She can also run any or all of her Windows 3.1 apps in separate processes, so that if one of them crashes, it won't take the others with it. She can also run the apps seamlessly on the desktop, so that she won't have to run the Program Manager but can launch them directly from the WPS.
As for WINE, well, it's being ported to OS/2 and merged with Project Odin (formerly Win32-OS/2). The OS/2 version has a special feature that lets you run Windows binaries directly from the command line or desktop, because the EXE loader has been enhanced to load Win32 apps and convert them to OS/2 apps on the fly.
I'd say that OS/2 is just what she needs.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
When I attempted to run a binary infected with the chernobyl virus (off the hard disk of a guy whose bios got fried), wine trapped the illegal memory accesses and dumped me in the debugger. It was very interesting to see it "on ice"
Choice of masters is not freedom.
Unlike WINE, Project Odin actually converts the Windows app into a native OS/2 application. The EXE and DLL's are modified so that OS/2 can load them, and a Win32 equivalent of the DLL's is provided. Odin also has a very cool feature where it intercepts the loader and actually convers a Windows EXE/DLL into an OS/2 EXE/DLL on the fly. This lets you run your Windows apps under OS/2 in a truly seamless fashion. It's very cool stuff, and I recommend that everyone check it out.
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
VMware isn't really an emulator; it's a program that virtualises the processor you already have (something like the trick IBM VM does on System/3[79]0s, and also similar to what Win3.1/95/98 do to allow you to run DOS programs), so you can run another x86 OS inside the OS you already run. Those virtualisation tricks also (IIRC) add a good amount of overhead to the system, so it slows it down, but the hit is a lot less than actually running a software emulator (though actually, I think certain peripherals like the VGA may be emulated).
If you're looking for something that *does* run on non-PC hardware, you may want to check out Bochs, though like any software emulation, that's very slow unless your machine's own CPU is very fast. Also, the guy behind Bochs is also organising his own "freemware" project, which is basically a Open Source clone of VMware.
-lee
I hate to be a party pooper but I can write a short script of every experience I've had with wine, whether it was with Civ II, Axis and Allies, Age of Empires, some pipe game, excel, GospeLink, Palm software and now Harmony (linking Palm with on line calender).
^ ~
1- I hear about major advances with such and such software
2- I download the latest Wine
3- running Wine I try to install software
4- watch it fail becuase something doesn't link
5- moan
6- contemplate wierd schemes of repartitioning so I can run Windows to get it throught the install so I can try the program
7- give up for another three months
Does anyone know tricks or tips of getting programs to install under wine? I'm with a lot of people who look through the glass at people happily getting things to work and wonder what we're doing wrong from the start.
^~~^~^^~~^~^~^~^^~^^~^~^~~^^^~^^~~^~~~^~~
See the "Plausible Deniability: Denied!" project here. The goal is to /. Intuit, and count the requests.
-- Slashdot sucks.
i disagree. we use timbuktu and vnc at work and i have to say vnc is the better of the two. they both approach the problem from different angles, but i must say i much prefer vnc.
:)
there's nothing better than kicking someone else off in the middle of a vnc session.
-l
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I just stopped by their site, but without having a Wintel machine handy I can't quite tell what they're providing?
Is it basically SoftPC for x86?
If so, though it sounds slow, I'd LOVE it... I could do whatever i wanted to do with the system, then backup the hard disk file and have nothing to worry about... Anyone know? Or am i being off-topic here?
I would just like to comment on vmware and SMP. I have a vmware running on a dual PII system. Works flawlessly. There were some issues regarding speed and one other (i/o, i think), but they have been resolved. VMware seems quite dedicated to squashing bugs quickly.
My understanding was that there was a lot of x86 specific code, therefore...
2. Assuming 1. - Would I be able to use navigator/exploder under WINE on the alpha?...no
-Brent--
otherwise it runs harmlessly. For instance, the wine-devels all had a chuckle running the "Happy 99" virus a year ago - it showed the fireworks perfectly fine but was unable to infect anything :)
This version is a GREAT improvement over all other wines I've seen..
With this version, I got EXCEL to work (even after I placed a chart in there), WinAMP, Word, ICQ (although the network didn't work), and other programs to work.
Plus they must have redid the font support.. Fonts were PERFECTLY clear...
This version rocked.
ChiefArcher
The one thing that linux is missing (it might change now with that Pan project) is a good newsreader/binary decoder like Free/Forte Agent.. and WINE runs that great, almost as fast as the windows version in displaying stuff, and faster at downloading (at least with cable, i dont know about anything else).. :)
I downloaded this version (hallowine) and the display bugs from the previous version seem to be gone now.. i havent tried many other programs but so far this one works great..
My two pointless cents
------ Poo-tee-weet?