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Pioneer to sell first recordable DVD decks
Element5 writes "Netcenter's Tech News reports that Pioneer will be selling the first DVD players (not DVD-ROM drives) to be able to record up to six hours of programming to rewritable discs. Check out the story. Pricing is high, as expected: $2399 US for the unit, $28.79 per disc. " And watch closely, as the film industry gets a panicked look in their eyes. Update: 11/27 08:47 by H : Thanks to Jim Choate for the story that Panasonic has introduced DVD-RAM for only 700$US.
DVD-RAM's as they're called have been around for about 2 years. All you needed to record TV shows was a recording program and CD recording software. On a 5 gig DVD-RAM you can store 2 hours of 640x480 15fps MJPA movies, or a virtually unlimited size MPEG-I movie. The hardware only costs $500 today. A blank DVD-RAM costs $25, and is fixed to match the cost of official movie releases.
Too late; it's already here. Ia ia Shub-Internet fhtagn!
Shub-Internet:
* Forces people to consume HARD-CORE PORN!
* Lures YOUNG KIDS to COMPLETE STRANGERS!
* CONS people out of their MONEY on E-BAY!
* Lets those evil CRYPTO-FREAKS conspire secretly!
* Forces your EMPLOYEES to do ZERO work in a day!
Quick! Ban the Internet!
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
The only useful illegal application would be to keep rentals longer ... and i don't think too many people would be willing to go through all the trouble ...
DVD is secure as long as DVD-R discs stay expensive.
Hes talking about the VCD scene on the internet, not the real world, VCDs are becoming as popular as MP3s, with major movies available via IRC before they are even on tape. (Infact, I got American Pie 3 weeks before it hit the theaters :)
.VOBs (video files on DVD)
As bandwidth increases, VCDs use will increase, unless people start passing around 10gig+
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"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
The pricing on movies depends on how likely someone is to buy it, or rent it. No one pays the full price anyway. (Major chains get the video for almost nothing and pay the studio part of the profits). Jurassic Park sold for only $14, $9 with a rebate.
--
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
No, you are far from the only one to note this. I, and many with me, have made parallels between the prohibition of the early part of this century (alcohol), and that of the latter (drugs), and the situation that this poses in cyberspace many times before here.
However, it goes way beyond just DVD movies, or even mp3 songs, and into the whole concept that anyone can be granted the control, or right to control, the flow of information. Enforcing that is impossible, for while I know its a cliche, information _does_ want to be free. When a society holds onto laws that it is obviously incapable of enforcing, and tries to make up for it by escalating the punishments (driving the market deeper underground) you get this situation.
I have no doubt that, if we do not do something, the IP war will do to our data networks what the war on drugs has done to our city cores.
-
We cannot reason ourselves out of our basic irrationality. All we can do is learn the art of being irrational in a reasonable way.
If anyone is panicked in the film industry, it is only the shock of entrenched power forced on the move by new technology. If the MPAA plays its cards correctly, the film industry could easily emerge with a dominance in this new field and higher revenues than ever before.
Consider that we already have this fundamental technology (albeit in a cruder form) with VCR, but the majority of film viewers are completely incapacitated by a simple red and white FBI warning pasted at the header of each tape. That flimsy exercise of authority is enough to keep the common consumer in check.
In my observation, the deciding factor in "consumer revolutions" is not the desire for independence, but the allure of convenience. There are many people, yes, who are thrilled by the notion of endlessly copied, personally owned videos. But I suspect that sector is small when viewed relative to the mass of moviegoers, who are happy parting with small sums of movie for the simple convenience of being provided the film as a service rather than as a commodity. And on those rare occasions they desire it as a commodity, $20 and a five minute drive don't seem to great a cost to spare.
If the average buyer of movies has ample and convenient supply of pre-recorded DVDs from their local rental store, on a par with the availability of VCR tapes today, why would they desire to copy their own, and at a large initial expense at that, since I can't imagine these recording machines will be cheap.
The internet does have the potential to alter this status quo, through pirated rebroadcasts, but only in a distant future (let us say one decade) in which the typical internet-enabled household can boast broadband speeds.
This gives the film industry ten years to get their shit together and organize an official pay-per-view internet broadcasting plan. The convenience of visiting a well-known site will make the arcane knowledge of pirate sites seem like sweaty and unnecessary labor. The quick little FBI blurbs will be enough to remind the placid victims that viewing pirated versions is Wrong.
The film industry (and t he recording industry for that matter) provide their media as services, although they present them as commodities. So long as that remains the more convenient schema, I can't see a consumer insurgency as a realistic future.
-konstant
-konstant
Yes! We are all individuals! I'm not!
I suspect that a lot of motivation behind lawsuits against similar products has been the hope of litigating the company or group out of existence. Who cares about the outcome if the legal bills force a shutdown?
This is different. Pioneer isn't going to fold under a few legal fees. What else might the film industry try? No more DVD decryption keys for Pioneer?
Greg
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
How much have recordable videotapes hurt the home video industry? None! How much have VCRs hurt the movie industry? None! How much have CD-Rs hurt the music industry? None again!
Recordable DVDs are the same way. In their typical short-sighted way, the industry will harp on about "The death of the home-DVD market" for a year, and then proceed to be shocked when their profits actually go up the same as always. I'm not sure what's worse--that they're constantly making more money from worse entertainment, that they're behaving like undisciplined bullies (to both the consumers and especially to the indies!), or that they're so clueless as to be surprised every time their industry fails to collapse because the consumer got something good.
The parallel with yesterday's story about the mall banning web-site promotion is left as an exercise for the reader.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
- A.P. (How did abortion get dragged into this?)
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"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
1. A working, accurate link:
http://www.pioneer.co.jp/press/release63.html
(it's in english)
2. Quote #1:
"Introduction of Copy Protection Technology
The DVR-1000 complies with all available copy protection technologies {e.g. response to CGMS (Copy Generation Management System) signal and detection of Macrovision signal}, to protect copyrighted visual content from unauthorized copying which contradicts the intention of copyright owners. Furthermore, the DVR-1000 implements secure media ID detection functions, which form a key element in disabling playback of discs containing unauthorized copies. DVD-RW blank discs also contain the technology to prevent successful copying of discs protected by CSS*"
3. Quote #2.
Recording Time
Standard mode(SP) 120 minutes
Manual mode (MN) 60 ` 360 minutes (32 steps)
4. Quote #3.
" At the same time, Pioneer will ask the member companies of the DVD Forum to adopt Pioneer's technology as the de facto standard for DVD recorders."
So it isn't a standard, and may not be a standard ever.
5. Quote #4.
"DVD-RW adopts the Video Recording Format method for recording, a specification authorized by the DVD Forum. This format allows high-quality real-time signal recording using MPEG compression technology and also provides a variety of editing functions.
Furthermore, Pioneer, as well as other major hardware manufacturers, will introduce Video Recording Format-ready DVD-Video players, and it will be possible to replay DVD-RW recorded discs on those players too.
"
So you won't be able to play the disc on many of the current players. But it does do realtime encoding.
Nothing particularly scary to any media company. Of course, my illusions of corporate competition among the 'big' corporations was shattered when I opened up my 101 disc Pioneer changer and found-- Sony components.
--I hate people when they're not polite -"Psycho Killer", Talking Heads
Goodie, I can't wait to get one -- but will it let me Zonecode my recordings so that I can control my roll-out ;-)
Is it just me, or does anyone see any parallels to the Prohibition in the DeCSS situation?
.zip's spread like wildfire anyway. (I mean, who here on /. DOESN'T have one?) And when the price goes down on the Pioneer device and the media, you can bet the movie industry will probably be in somewhat a snit.
I know it's a bit of a stretch, but bear with me here in the general idea...it's really one of the only examples I can think of.
Now, I'm pretty sketchy on this, but IIRC, liquor was made illegal during the Prohibition. Did it end all drinking? No...instead you had lots of people forming undergrounds, gangs, etc, and crime just escalated because of it. When the bans were lifted, did we become a nation of drunks? No. Sure, there was still drunk driving, etc, but the pros outweighed the cons.
By making all form of copying, decrypting, etc, DVDs illegal, what will we have? Likely a lot of people breaking those laws just because they're pointless. Take the DeCSS situation--the guy took the source down because of all the flak he was getting, but the tarballs and
Look at VHS. It's easy to record, sometimes insanely easy to copy. Is the movie industry suffering because of them? No. Sure, the FBI flashes a dire warning at the beginning of each movie, but how many of us here don't have a video copied somehow? (Uh, I don't. Not me. No.)
I guess my point is, when people are free to use media as they wish, and the big industries are left to grit their teeth a bit, things work better.
Just my $.02.
Angry IT woman in big clompy boots. And talking lint!.