Slashdot Mirror
What the Amiga Pioneers Are Doing Now
The_Borg writes "Nice little piece in the OttawaCitizen about the pioneers of Amiga and what they are doing now, as well as a few details of how Microsoft tried to sink them.
"
← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)
Alas... i wish i hadn't sold my Amiga. Those are nifty little things. You'll have to excuse me. Maybe i should've went to bed about 14 hours ago.
"And these Web appliances could yet break Microsoft and Intel's domination of the desktop computer market."
What a strong revelation. AOL _is_ a major company, but isn't that stretching it a bit? Sure, I could see a resurgance(is that a word?) with Amiga.. especially with AOL involved.. maybe Gateway will make up for where Mr. Chowaniec lacked in marketing ability. But breaking through the strong 20 foot high diamond shard encrusted walls of the bigwigs like M$ and Intel would require a lot of firepower. I'm no business whiz, but it would probably take years to get to that point. If they're lucky enough to get that far. Maybe if they pick up a giant stuffed loveable aardvark name Freddie as their mascot they can win over the kiddies!
I don't know how many /.ers are from the GTO (Greater Ottawa Area!) but nobody I know holds the Citizen in very high regard. It's an OK paper but it's run by a fascist. And indeed there is a nickname for it. hint: what rhymes with the first syllable of citizen??
anyhow, has anyone else noticed how many slashdot stories actually come from the citizen? it's pretty suprising. perhaps it's because more people from ottawa read slashdot than one would think...
pdubroy AT yahoo DOT com
I do not see "details" in this article of Microsoft practices.
Slashdot people *need* to start reading your links. It's only fair that we see the real information
And I know your gonna moderate this down because why is that k1dd13 d1ss1ng the slashdot poeple theyresoooo cool.
-- dieman - Scott Dier
/. has been covering Amiga news quite a bit since the recent flurry of news surrounding them and Transmeta. Doesn't it make sense that they'd post an article about the people who made the Amiga what it was? I'll agree that there are more appropriate topics for Slashdot, but I think that Amiga-news has its place here. After all, there are certainly some Amiga-fans among our ranks.
-----------
"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
http://www.ottawa citizen.com/hightech/991126/3206262-3206309.jpeg
She looks like Alicia Bridges, from the song "I Love the Nightlife." Personally, I thought the article was much more interesting than this woman's photo. (Although the girl in the SECOND picture down on the right side is quite......interesting. She caught my attention quickly.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Slashdot material is whatever Rob, Jeff, etc. want to post.
Seems all the new people forget that when Slashdot displays stuff, people who are interested in the same sort of thing come here, not the other way around.
Finkployd
This machine was pushed as a Gaming machine, a Graphics machine, Video Production (Ah, the days of the Video Toaster) Programming, and desktop. Unfortunately, as the article states, Commodore was not exactly a Marketing Wizard. Sure, they put out a hell of a good product (almost everything from Commodore rocked), but when it came to actually pushing the product, they failed.
It's unfortunate that companies which make viable products get stomped out like this, but it's a hard lesson. It's also pretty sad that making a good product just isn't good enough to survive in business anymore.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Amiga is not dead quite yet. Sure, we may never see another computer with the "Amiga" name stamped on it, but Amiga lives on in a lot of other ways.
Take my experience with the Amiga as an example. I used to have one of the old 512k Amiga 500s. When I got my first Wintel box in 1994, I knew there had to be something better then the monstrosity that was MS Windows. The Amiga directly led to my discovery of Linux. I'm not the only one either, there a lot of Linux users and developers out there who have migrated to Linux.
The Amiga was one of the greatest products in the history of personal computers. Considering that there are people out there who still get real work done on their Commodore 64's I think that it is going to be a LONG time before the die hard Amiga fans give up the ghost on their wonder boxes.
Brought to you by Frobozz Magic Penguin Fodder.
and what they are doing now, as well as a few details of how Microsoft tried to sink them. Can anyone show me where these details in the article are? I read the article several times, but could not find them. Looking at the pictures carefully did not help much either. I don't want to join the discussion of whether Amiga is dead or not. But now that people started attaching anti-Microsoft remarks to completely irrelevant articles , I wonder what will come next.
--
BluetoothCentral.com
A site for everything Bluetooth. Coming in January 2000.
Zigbee Central: A Zigbee weblog
I dont like to see Boing balls bounced around for attention; Amiga wont disappear, and does not need any fluffers to stay firmly rooted. ;^)
Its bizarre that a non-technical would dare mention a past stint at Commodore...With its greedy, horrible, money management, let alone the profoundly slim marketing push.
I dont recall seeing his signature on the inside of the A1000, or any of the Patents either.
Perhaps the name was in an easter-egg I missed.
Some errors in the article:
Gateway bought Amiga well over 2 years ago.
The AOL prediction is pure conjecture.
Calmos made some neat DES and key management processor hardware, along with the gambit of
intel 82Cxx peripherial chips.
I was strongly advised not to use Tundras 1st
gen PCI bridge chips by someone who did. Regretfully he had.
His saving these two IS something to tout, but
with the limited "bean-flow" into all things Amiga
(Like the CBM-PC compatibles) while at Commodore
puts one in the bad company of Gould, Haige, and the LBM. Whos next to join THEM?
Onward!
Joe Torre - X - HardwareEngineer @ Amiga Inc & ZapMedia Amiga, AmigaDE, BeOS, Linuxz, QNX, Rebol, Windoze, ZME: So
If you have a title about "Amiga Pioneers", I expect to find something about Jay Miner there, not some Commodore vice-prez. It's not like Commodore did the pioneering with Amiga, they just bought Jay's company when it would have died otherwise.
It's worth pointing out that Commodore did not invent that Amiga; they bought the Amiga company, which almost completely developed the Amiga 1000. Lorraine (the prototype) was done by the time C= got on the scene.
It was at Amiga, and not at Commodore, that the phrase "Guru Meditation" was born. Commodore later elided the phrase from KickStart (version 2.00, I believe).
The true father of the Amiga was Jay Miner, who architected the system. Other names from the inner circle include Dale Luck, RJ Mical, and Dave Needle, but Mr. Miner (RIP) was the soul of the machine.
Amiga was developed by a company that thought they were making the next great console. Their engineers, probably the finest design team that had ever been assembled to that point, had other ideas: they were going to make it the ultimate personal computer. Most of their development was done semi-secretly -- the people bankrolling the initial project didn't realize the feature set had expanded so enormously.
.8 or .9 or thereabouts) the same way that I had done on the Amiga. Linux was, in many respects, a bit like coming home again. Linux didn't really do graphics well (in a way it still doesn't: SVGALib just isn't that hot), and X was slower than dirt on the 386-16 I was running. It wasn't an Amiga replacement quite yet, but it was sure closer than Win 3.1.
:-)
Obviously, I'm not up on all the details here, but that original seed company ran into financial trouble. Atari lent them money, knowing that they probably wouldn't be able to pay it back and they would get this incredible technology very cheaply when the little company defaulted. (I don't know if the little company was called Amiga or not.)
Well, sure enough, they hadn't quite completed their design and the loan was due -- Atari was about to move in and shut them down. Commodore rode in as a white knight and bought the company lock, stock, and barrel. They repaid Atari and took the technology for themselves. This infuriated Jack Tramiel of Atari.
To get revenge, Atari slapped together what was essentially a cheap piece of shit that, on paper, appeared to have many of the same technical merits the Amiga did. In actual fact, it was a 68000 with some RAM, I/O ports, and very simple graphic and sound chips. TOS was their single-tasking operating system. The desktop was called GEM, and was ugly and sluggish. But it had a 68000, like the Amiga, and it actually clocked the CPU faster (8Mhz) instead of the Amiga's 7.14Mhz. It also included a built-in MIDI port, which is probably the only really cool thing about it.
The Atari STs had three big advantages over the Amiga. They were cheaper, were easier to program, and were backed by a big, sleazy advertising campaign. They ran 'comparison' ads all the time which were horribly slanted. They actually did pretty well with it for quite some time. The infighting between the Amiga and ST weakened both computers, and eventually destroyed both: the PC juggernaut overwhelmed them, though the Amiga lasted a lot longer. The Amiga/Atari wars were worse than any of the distro wars you see now. But ultimately, while the Atari died a lot sooner, they both still died.
It took ten years, however, for the PC to catch up to the Amiga completely. Out of the box, it could do 4,096 colors (32 at once in low res, 4096 at once in a special HAM mode that was really hard to program for). It had sprites, four-channel digital sound, and an array of (for the time) incredibly powerful custom chips that offloaded almost all of the graphic and sound work from the CPU.
The operating system multitasked with an incredibly light overhead. You could seriously expect to run several smaller programs in 256K. 512K was quite usable, and when you expanded the machine to 2.5MB of RAM you had a really kick-butt machine.
It didn't have the concept of memory-to-disk paging, but that's probably just as well. Disk I/O was always bad on the Amigas; their filesystem really wasn't very good, and their floppies weren't especially reliable. It wasn't until you added a hard drive that they really started to sing, and most consumers couldn't afford hard drives back then.
It wasn't until 1994 that I could really multitask on my PC (with an early Linux,
My personal PC didn't rival my original Amiga for actual useful power until about 1996: considering our family bought our Amiga 1000 in Christmas of 1985, I think that's just amazing legs. I have a friend who is still using an A2000 (1987 or so) and absolutely swears by it.
At this point the original technology is hopelessly primitive and probably not worth saving, IMO. There are just too many features missing that we are all used to. The BeOS is, at present, the closest you can get to the Amiga. If you want to get back into that type of technology again, I'd suggest BeOS on a dual-CPU PC instead.
They did finally emulate the Amiga in software. There is a commercial package with ready-to-run binaries that will allow you to do almost anything you could do with a real Amiga. Check Cloanto for details. You can also, if you wish, download and assemble the pieces separately without paying for them, a la Linux.
It's worth a look. There were some cool ideas back then. The Amiga was the most technologically brilliant personal computer ever created. There are a lot of us older geeks out there who have very fond memories indeed.
Duh... don't you keep up with the times... Elvis bought the rights to the Amiga a couple years ago. There have been tons of rumors about his plans. I'm betting that he's gonna release the new model in conjunction with a world tour. That will set the world on its tail, you can be sure.
:)
I've heard he's gonna tour with Jim Morrison sometime in Q1 of 2000, so look for the new Amiga around then. That is of course unless he gets abducted by aliens before he can finish putting the final touches on that bad boy computer that just friggin refuses to die
Bullshit. It's not there. Read the article. It just says that the Amiga fell by the wayside. Yet certain posters like everything to sound like a Microsoft conspiracy.
Open Source. Closed Minds. We are Slashdot.
Just to double-check, and because it was lying around, I just checked the August, 1985 issue of Byte, which was the first in-depth look at the Amiga. Let's see who they mention: the late Jay Miner. (It's a shame they don't mention the guys behind the software, too. Although they describe the software components, no one else is mentioned by name. It's been so long now that the only names I can think of off-hand are Carl Sassenrath and RJ Mical.)
The real definition of an Amiga "pioneer" would be someone with his signature on the inside top cover of an Amiga 1000. Is there a list of these somewhere?
Anyway, it seems to me that the two most revolutionary computers ever built were the Apple II and the Amiga (hell, throw the original Mac in there, too). Both died because of improper marketing and, if Microsoft had been eliminated early on, I think the war would be between Apple and Amiga. Both were amazing machines that nothing before (or after) can compare to--it's a shame the wintel market took so many years to come up with equivelent technology.
Hard to read some since the're signatures so many errors are possibe.
Jo?? Ca?ill
Dan Beitman
Scribble
Risle Geiger
Robert J. Mical (very arty too)
327002-01 REV A
Ali??en E. Co?????
Dave Moun
Jay Miner
Bel Pavireau
Dave Dean
Paw Print
Darlaine Mc Donell
E?levin Chu (Three non-acii chars follow)
Carl Sassenrath
Dave Nee?lle
Ronald H. Nicholson j
Se??n Dic?n
Scribble
Can't even tell which way is up.
Mary McCoy
Ste?? Shepard
Neil Ma?in
Bob "Kodiak" Burns
Cheryl ?ill?ois
Bill Kobb
Mik? Di Fapp
Mitchell ?ass
Aki T_L
Ca??? Neeues
Bruce Thompson
Don L??k
??ep M??t?
Lau?i? jan Rusch
Dale Due?
Anne Mo?oles
Jesn Belle?
Joe Pillow
Mike Slifeak
Jeff L Tayler
Lee Ho
Dan R?i???qus
Dave Doineman
Something Lee
Tall Scribble '85
Scribble
Cris R
Martin P??y?ybl??i
Three chars (Angly lookin face, T hugging a square, and A guy looking at space panic)
Another Scribble.
-- That which does not kill us has made its last mistake.
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
RJ Mical: Currently living with his wife and four lovely children on the San Francisco Peninsula. He's written a book (fiction), and is searching for a publisher.
Carl Sassenrath: Created and currently distributing the REBOL programming language.
Dale Luck: When not restoring his massive menagerie of vintage coin-op video games, he works for a digital PBX/telephony company in the Bay Area.
Dave Needle: Still inventing and building cool hardware hacks at his own pace, and installs $1500 bathroom faucets at the behest of his loving wife, Margo.
Still some of the coolest people I have been privileged to know.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
As for the Amiga, it wasn't because of Microsoft that it died (yes, I'm considering it dead - see below) - and neither was it because the platform wasn't good enough. No, it was Commodore's horrible management that killed it.
Now, let's return to the issue of death. What does it mean when you say that a computer platform is dead ? As it has been pointed, Amigas do exist in some form and software for it is being actively developed. Yes, this is true. But still, for most people, it's only a reason for nostalgy.
Amiga, as a phenomenon, is gone. It was a great computer, years ahead of its time - and in the mainstream computing world, with millions of users and lots of software. The days of glory are gone, and no matter how much the Amiga enthusiasts would want it, those days will not return. Amiga is, and will remain, a niche computer, with no significance to the majority of the user base.
So - as a former Amiga user - for me, as I used to know it, Amiga is dead. Period.
Actually, though, the reason the Amiga didn't have Doom was due to marketing. Commodore killed the Amiga market enough that Id had no reason to release an Amiga port. Apparently there just wasn't high enough expected sales. Can't say I blame them.
After Doom got ported to the Mac, though, Amiga users were able to run Doom using Mac emulators, and it wasn't bad. And of course, within a day or two of Id releasing the Doom source, native Amiga ports started showing up as well, and these are actually quite good -- better than the original in some ways. (But so is the DosDoom port.)
We didn't get Quake either, until the Linux source got leaked and some pirate ported it. Once there were a few thousand people playing Quake on their Amigas, someone (Clickboom) took advantage of this .. ahem .. marketing reasearch .. and got a license from Id for a legitimate port.
Similar thing happened with Myst also. Some pirate had to do the marketing research before we could get a legit port. With a situation like that, it's no wonder that game developers have stayed away from the Amiga in the 90s, but it's not the machine's fault -- it is quite capable of playing the games. You can play any game you want on an Amiga if you can just get source code. I sure wish Bungee would accidently leak some of their stuff some time... ;-)
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
If we were all a little more open and would moderate posts based on the quality of their reasoning as well as the degree to which we
:-)
agreed with their conclusions, I might change my preferences away from -1. Until then, it stays.
For the most part I dont see too many posts that are well reasoned and dont get moderated to about 2. If you set your threshold to 5 you'll never see people hwo disagree with the norm, but there's enough moderators out there that are fair to put a disagreeable post up to at least 2.
Of course your idea of what is disagreeable might be different
I always browwse at -1, because there's alot of funny stuff going on in -1 and 0 land, and I love to read it when I have the time.
-Rich