Slashdot Mirror
Red Hat/Corel Takeover Rumors
zDooder writes "According to Yahoo
Finance, rumors are flying on Wall Street about RedHat buying
out Corel. " Corel's stock has been all over the place as a result (Discloser:I own some Corel stock). It's definitely an interesting match. Corel's distribution is based on Debian, and Word Perfect is a decidedly closed source product. I'm not putting a lot of weight in this one, but I've heard stranger rumors so who knows.
Well, MS could steal it...but at the same time it would be open-sourced and open to all of us, as well. The result would not be surprising:
A) MS would just mess it up and release an inferior product.
B) The Open-Source Movement would provide a better product, assuming there's interest in Corel Draw and WP for non-Linux amongst Open-Source contributors out there. It's also possible it would be ported to other OS's like BeOS and help those OS's gain a foothold (we all know, painfully, that availability of apps make or break an OS).
C) 90% of desktop computer users out there would buy the inferior product because they are chained to MS's OS and believe that they have the best there is to offer. Bill Gates is a genius, after all...right? (don't step in my dripping sarcasm)
D) Us Nerds would continue on our merry way and nothing would be any different...we'd have good software...that, in some cases, is too difficult for the novice to configure...and continue to stick our noses up at the technologically-challenged and the MS-centric.
I would hope that Red Hat (and other Open-Source co's/orgs out there) would see this as an opportunity to provide software that is user-friendly enough to appeal to the novice while maintaining its technological superiority...and seize this opportunity without falling into the same traps as MS.
Although all their products continue to be free (GPL), I don't see why RedHat wouldn't, at some point in the future, declare Sendmail and GCC to be some RHPL (RedHat Public License), which is almost, but not quite, compatible with the GPL and the Open Source spirit... then what will happen to Open Source as we know it today?
:)
Not to worry, my friend... Open Source will live happily ever after just by grabbing the last gpl distro and starting it's own Eyes Wide Open Linux, carrying all the previous benefits from the famous distro. Fewer people would buy Red Hat CD's, and ultimately they either will have been taught a lesson and become good boys again [but with a very low image], or go bankrupt.
I am not afraid of any would-be-Microsfot-linux-distro... that is FUD thrown from the inside into opensource movement. It's not a monopoly which is bad, it's abusive monopolies (personal opinion, I simply agree with what's on the pulpit) we should care about.
If buying Corel would mean its tools GPL'ed. well, as far as I see it, they can damned well be bought, for all I care
hugs
Assuming that RedHat actually buys Corel (which I think is extremely unlikely), I doubt they'd ever open-source any of Corel's products such as WPOffice or Draw etc. The only reason I can see RH buying Corel is because they feel Corel is a good investment; open-sourcing the only things Corel is really making money from just wouldn't make good business sense for them.
What I can see, though, is RedHat pushing further development of Corel's apps on the Linux desktop, including their integration into GNOME or possibly KDE. This will probably happen anyways, though, regardless of whether RedHat buys Corel or not. The only thing I am pretty sure of is that this would be the end of the Corel Linux distro.
-cr
It's only software!
If this is true, then it looks as if Redhat's strategy is the archetypal `buy up lots of small companies to boost the CEO's ego'.
I disagree. Cygnus made sense since they're the gcc maintainers and the kernel is definitely written in GNU C, not ANSI C! They also may help RedHat support embedded Linux. Given their (IMO) massively inflated stock price, any stock based aquisition of slightly more tangiable assets makes sense, really! The allure of Corel could be the applications and distribution network, with the shareholder bonus of eliminating a potential Linux stock market distraction.
I hope it isn't true. Any ideas as to what started the rumour?
Even if it might make some sense, I tend to think this is probably just an unfounded rumour. Rather than causing the Corel stock price run-up, it might well be a based in people looking for a reason for the run-up, which is more likely that they got caught up in RHAT's slipstream!
"What if they declare Sendmail and GCC to be some RHPL"?
Then those projects will fork from the last GPL version, likely with funding from SuSE/TurboLinux/VA Linux/other distros. This has already happened with SSH, and there's no reason it couldn't for other stuff too.
Redhat still has the best record of any non-Debian distro on open source. *Every* component of a Redhat distro that Redhat develops themselves is GPL. Not any funny weird licence, real live RMS-tested-mother-approved GPL. I'll take a record like that over "but they COULD become evil" nonsense any day.
"Why don't they just stick to providing services"
Because big companies (and I work at one so I know how they think) will feel better about paying Redhat for service contracts if they know RH is associated with at least some key developer(s) of those programs. Let's face it, if you experience a kernel problem and you have a service contract with Redhat, they can have top kernel gurus like Alan Cox and Ingo Molnar take a look at it for you. That's powerful.
Compare this with the Linux service contracts being offered by companies like SCO. Not only do they not have any Linux developers, their main business is a competing product! Given the choice between them and Redhat I know which company's service contract wouldn't make me fear losing my job.
I doubt they will buy Corel but it makes me think of a good thing coming from all of the Red Hoopla lately. Perhaps one of the bast ways to get lots of GPL code is simply to buy it. I know that perhaps WP isn't the best code in the world but i am sure that someone could benefit from at least seeing it. If you view code writing to be largely like a tree growing (code branching and such), then a GPL lisence takes over that whole branch. A purchase of code and a release under the GPL effectively makes the whole branch GPL. I tend to view the coding world as more linear than your average tree (rope-like perhaps) with new strands of code being woven in and out of the application. But, GPL code can't be woven in without a GPL lisence.
/. thinks too.
;)
Now I wonder, what if a large linux driven company could purchase/write a lot of code and GPL it. What would the computer industry look like/how would it work in an all/mostly GPL world. would there be more computer jobs available? less?
I have my ideas but I would like to know what the rest of
perhaps it would start another "red" scare in the traditional business world
-pos
The truth is more important than the facts.
The truth is more important than the facts.
-Frank Lloyd Wright
well, somehow i don't think this is very likely. corel has way too many "other" interests that would turn off red hat.
a) windows software
b) macintosh software
c) old support contracts
that said, there are some interesting aspects of a corel buy (namely the hardware connections, the expertise, and the two distribution questions). more important, though, is that corel doesn't even make as much sense as other companies for a possible office suite for linux. a company with more focus seems to be a much better option. what about abisource? what about applix? seems that if red hat bought applix, gpl'd it, gtk'd it, and gnome-ified it that would make much more sense.
as for red hat buying everyone and everything rumors, red hat is starting to have enough money to screw up. it was fine when they could only afford blunders. it seems now, though, that they can afford disasters as well. tread lightly mr. young (and don't even think about cray)!
Earlier today, this article on Slashdot talks about their financial involvment with Sendmail and the Mozilla Project, and the previous rumors about the acquisition of Cygnus turned out to be true.
Red Hat should save themselves a little bit of cash and make an investment into TrollTech and/or KDE instead. If Qt were GPL'd, there would no longer be any justification for using the less sophisticated GNOME over KDE for "philosophical reasons". KOffice would reign, and the savings could be applied toward the bottom line. "Red Hat in the black" (like SuSE) is a headline that has great appeal to serious stockholders.
Steam wears off quickly -- Netscape^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HAOL is now taking handouts from Red Hat to keep Mozilla going, just a few short years after that promising IPO. WordPerfect (on its own) has already proven to be an unwise move, and their Windows and Mac software is just excess baggage. Those users won't switch to Linux, they'll switch to Macromedia/Adobe/Microsoft/et al. Novell sure couldn't leverage the WordPerfect name, I don't think the fedora is gonna sell many more copies...
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E2 IN2 IE?
Are there any rumors about who Red Hat isn't buying?
--
E2 IN2 IE?
So much for UNIX fragmenting, eh?
Redhat is buying Debian but the Debian constitution requires three motions to vote from four separate mailing lists followed by a period of discussion on the wording of the proposal to consider a proposal. The results are then tabulated using two thirds of the proof from Fermat's last theorem. Given the average life span of a human and the rate of admission to Debian all the developers will be dead by then.
For the humor impaired, none of the above is true.
maybe if redhat bought corel then they could finally get corel's licensing straight for once...
"The importance of using technology in the right way has never been more clear."
If RedHat buys Corel we should get Open Source WordPerfect Suite. This could really kill MS Office. A good well known office suite that's free! Why would anyone buy MS Office for some $500 or so.
I have one question then. Which distribution do you keep or do you distribute both? Two distrubutions from one company sounds dumb to me.
Another good thing... RH and Corel and have been two of the biggest helps to get linux to the masses, putting there heads together couldn't be a bad thing.
-Al-
Seriously -
Is there anything that individual developers could do 2 years ago with Linux that they can't do now?
Yes, money will flow, and suits will get what they want, but how does that change the fundamental development environment for Linux? I'd argue that it's a superset of what it once was. Everything that used to be there still is, and there's a bunch of extra business stuff getting tacked on - take it or leave it.
----
--
Castles used to be largely effective at keeping out barbarians. Let's call that the "castle effect". Then gunpowder was invented. Wow! Look at all that rubble! That's the "gunpowder effect"
My take on it is that, while Microsoft still has a mighty fine castle, we've got a lot more gunpowder - freeness, reliably, flexibility, constant improvements - and unlike Microsoft, our powder isn't wet.
As somebody else said, we have to play and win the game of file format tag. We also have to take the high ground: do all our own native formats in zipped XML. I think Abiword already does this. Make sure it's good, intelligent XML, and Corel will adopt it too. Work towards the goal of complete file format interoperability across all "open" word processors. Pretty soon, Joe Average will be pressuring Microsoft to support our format. Then we've won, please pass the grog.
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
Moderate this down!
Just buying Sendmail & Cygnus does not give Redhat the copyright to the work, becuase it has contributions from other (non-employee) people. If the don't own the work, they can't change the copyright.
It's as simple as that.
--Donate food by clicking: www.thehungersite.com
According to the Red-Hat Wealth Monitor, there are few companies RedHat can't afford to buy these days.
STFU about slashdot bias.
Hi,
There was that ambitious hardware project of a Linux-only computer by Corel. I recall that it was later made an independent company from Corel.
Anyway, what happened to the device? Is it successful?
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You may like my a cappella music
We need Corel because we need diversity in the market. On their own, Corel will provide us with a useful and different product. If Red hat buy them out, why would they bother to fund two competing but essentially similar development efforts?
I'd much rather see Corel and Red Hat competing against each other. This looks like a monopoly in the making.
Consciousness is not what it thinks it is
Thought exists only as an abstraction
Now wouldn't that be funny. If you thought AOL and Netscape were bad, can you imagine the culture clash if Microsoft and Red Hat were to merge?
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
It's now owned by rebel.com, which is now one of the fastest-growing tech companies in the Ottawa area... which is actually saying quite a lot. It really hasn't been widely marketed yet though, I don't think they have the manufacturing capacity. It's pretty much going to be stagnant until the company issues an IPO, which is highly anticipated. The NetWinder LC, though, which was a desktop verion, hasn't been released, which is disappointing for me... they've all been servers.
Every time a Red Hat corporate takeover rumor comes along, it stirs up this big discussion about Red Hat, Linux, commercialism, etc., etc. Why?
I can see why people might debate the pros and cons of this or that company as a prospective choice, but I don't see why the fact that Red Hat is looking at potential purchaces is such a hot discussion.
This is what companies do. They aim to make money, generally by providing quality products and services. One excellent way to do that is to buy companies which mesh well with your own. The resulting whole is often greater then the sum of its parts.
Red Hat is a company. Way back from the start, one of their slogans has been "Red Hat -- The Commercial Linux People". Since their IPO, they've had wads of cash, so now is the time to do it. It makes perfect sense.
I cannot see why this is so often debated. Cause for discussion would be if Red Hat just sat there pumping out CDs without doing anything new.
/SOAPBOX
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
There have also been rumors that Red Hat may try to buy out SCO. I never took them that seriously, because I don't think SCO's corporate culture is OpenSource compatible and I don't think that SCO has all that much to offer to Red Hat, but it could be possible. Probably the biggest obstacle would be the chunks of SCO owned by the Michels', Microsoft, and Novell.
Somewhere down the road these companies need to make some coin. WP is a product that can do that. RH could still give out the stripped down version for free but continue to charge for the full blown kit. Enough people are sick of windowsX crashing while they are in the middle of their work that they will try anything.
Thanksgiving dinner: Cousin Linda sits across the table from me. I tell her about Linux. She complains about Windows 98 crashing on her while trying to edit some graphics. I offer her a Free copy of Linux-Mandrake and assistance installing it. She gets excited and starts to beg for help - pulling out her business card faster than I can wipe the dressing off my lip. I mailed the disk yesterday with a note pointing to the web page and suggesting some books (McMillan et al). When she calls me I will help her get it installed and connected to the web. And she will be just as happy the rest of my New Linux Converts (NLCs) (tm).
Cheers to the new millenium and the new technology order!
Dan
Adults are obsolete children. - Dr. Seuss
It's kinda funny, at least to me anyway. When I got my first computer in 1992, I picked up a copy of WordPerfect 5.x for Windows 3.1, which was put out by the Wordperfect Corporation (as I recall).
I later upgraded to version 6.0, which had Novell written all over disks - Wordperfect Corp. had been bought out.
Later, when I upgraded to to Windows 95, I picked up Wordperfect 7, which had "Corel" printed all over the CD-ROM.
Next, I switched over to Linux and now have Wordperfect 8 installed on it.
And now maybe when I get Wordperfect 2000 (or whatever) it may be from RedHat's download site?
How times change...
--Cycon
"The Human Genome Project: Open Sourcing the Human Race since 1990" --Steve Castellotti
Your Brain + EEG + LEGO Robots = Brainstorms
Ha! The voice of reason finally shines through.
My broker calls this the old "Pump and dump." People start rumors to inflate the stock then unload after it peaks. The internet has been a great tool for that. Remember the big run on Iomega a few years ago. The whole motley fool crowd had fun with that and a bunch of people lost money; while a bunch of the early adopters made a ton. Be very very carefull when you hear rumors like this with no foudation.
#include
main()
{
if can_read_source()
printf("I can!!\n");
}
I can!!
My journal has hot
I think this is highly unlikely. Corel's business in about 2% Linux and 98% software for Windows. There is no fit here at all.
It looks to me that Rob is using Slashdot raise his stock's value. Corel has been stuck with such rumors since the day Microsoft has monopolised the Office software space. It used to be rumors about Adobe buying Corel and now Red Hat. I personnaly think it would be foolish for Corel to sell out to Red Hat. They own a LOT of the kind of applications that Linux users (especially the new generation) have been drooling over.
Without music, life would be an error.
You are unethical to make such unsubstantiated accusations.
These rumours are being bandied about on various USENET groups and other forums read by people who trade this and other stocks in lots of tens of thousands. Rob's reporting it on slashdot, in comparison, will have virtually no appreciable effect on the value of the stock (how many day traders and brokers do you think read this forum?), and it does qualify as "news for nerds" more than several stories posted here in the last few days, as CORL is not only a venerable software company, but one with an aggressive Linux strategy as well.
The price climbed, fell, will climb again, will fall again, ad nauseum. The short term, intraday price is driven much more by day traders trying to make a quick buck than by technically savvy folks reading rumours on slashdot and running out to buy the stock at $27.00. In fact, those of us savvy enough to see the direction of the technology tide (toward open source OSes) got in on this early enough to not care what the day traders do to the intra-day stock price.
Those wise enough to hang onto [insert favorite Linux stock here] over the long haul will make a killing. Yes, probably even those unfortunate enough to now own $27 shares of CORL. Of course, they are the most likely ones to panic and sell at $17, locking in a $10 loss, but then they have only themselves to blame. Trying to be Mr/Ms Day Trader Extrodinair is foolish even for the professionals -- the rest of us should stick with what we know, invest in companies we feel are viable for whatever underlying reasons we understand, and not gawk at the stock price every two minutes trying to outguess the professionals on when to buy and when to sell. Leave that to the professional traders -- at least they have a 50% chance of coming out winners, whcih is alot better than the rest of us do when we start trying to go up against them day trading.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Witb all the ipo money they have, Red Hat is going to buy up a couple more companies before they're done; normally, companies use ipo money to invest in fab plants or advertising, and neither is particularly relevant to linux at the moment, so they have to pour the money somewhere, and there's only so much money that can be burned internally. Corel, however, isn't the best choice, for reasons stated elsewhere.
As for buying out Troll Tech and QT, Red Hat had better want to maintain QT under its current liscense or under a more open liscense, because of that certain clause that allows the KDE Free QT Foundation to release QT under a BSD liscense given the correct conditions.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
Even when you consider the millions raised in the RedHat IPO, buying Corel just doesn't make that much sense. Red Hat can't make money by Open Sourcing Corel's products, and if RHAT didn't open source, then their reputation flies out the window. RHAT has a responsibility to the open source community as well as to its shareholders. Corel might fall to RHAT sometime in the future, but a buyout now would either be a huge financial mistake or a sellout for RHAT.
And those who mentioned that RHAT may want Corel's install wizard... I have confidence that the boys down at Red Hat could conjure up something similar themselves, without shelling out millions to buy it.
One final thought... buying out competitors sure doesn't leave much room for "Freedom to Innovate," pardon the phrase. If Red Hat buys Corel, I'm running Slackware.
Socra.Meth.
I don't think that Corel would sell, (I lived in Ottawa for a decade and the owner's mansion is familiar on sight, it REALLY stick out in the neighborhood, thank God for spruce trees. They keep their foliage in the snow :-) There's too much ego involved with Corel, but if, IF this can be engineered, how long do you think WordPerfect Suite 8+ would stay closed source?
I LOVE WP's file format. I was able to write stuff in Smalltalk/V (deceased now...) to parse WP files to extract information a long time ago, as opposed to the mess from Redmond which isn't compatible with itself. I'd love to write stuff like that again.
-Charles-A.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
[crap about RH & gcc/sendmail]
Not possible, unless RedHat somehow becomes the sole copyright holder of those programs. Which isn't bloody likely.
Do you have any actual behaviour on the part of redhat to back up these suppositions, or is it just 'I don't like RH because they *could* do this if they wanted to'?.
It's kind of scary... why don't they just stick to providing services, instead of buying out open source companies?
A single linux distribtution does not an open source company make. Corel provides things like WP and CorelDraw for Windows, which is hardly an open source line of buisness.
Since when do stock valuations have any relation to book value? This is the "new" stock market, wherein valuation is inversely proportional to earnings. NS produces something, and occasionally earns a profit. Thus their valuation will remain low. Red Hat (and Yahoo and Excite and every other hot company) has never made a profit, has little hope of doing so soon, and thus will remain in the stock stratosphere. The Man's stock tip: buy what's hot, especially if the company is losing a lot of money. The bigger the company's losses, the bigger your profits will be!
Just a quick note on the side:
Did you know that Red Hat's market capitalization is twice that of National Semiconductor?
Corel Takeover rumours are a dime a dozen.
I've owned Corel stock from time to time, and if I've learned one thing, it is that Corel has a talent for using rumours, false promises, shady accounting, and insider trading to manipulate the value of their stock.
But it is hard to cover up what Corel really is. -Namely, a lackluster under-performing Software Development Company who is trying to go head to head with Microsoft, and is both financially and technologically on the ropes.
If it isn't rumours that Novell, IBM, or Sun is going to buy Corel, then it is vaporware promises of WordPerfect Office for Java. Bottom line: Read the financial statements, not the press releases.
Linux is good for Corel, but is Corel good for Linux?
Selling WordPerfect and Office Suites for Linux is a good market direction for Corel to be going. It'll make them some good money. -Especially since their products aren't doing to well in the WinTel market, better to reposition for a less competive one (Linux). But how long will it last?
Why a Corel Linux Distribution?
Does Corel really have what it takes to become a major player in Linux Distributions? Is it technically superior? Maybe on a couple points. Is it more user-friendly? Maybe, maybe not. Is it likely to stay ahead of the curve for long? No. Linux distributions require staying power. The ability to consistently deliver a more value-added distribution than the competitors.
We all benefit for Corel's effort to improve Linux... I hope that they do become a major player, but I just don't think they've got it in them. I hope I get to eat my words.
What value would Corel add to RedHat?
Little to none. Unless Redhat is looking to put the rather expensive WordPerfect(TM) feather in their hat, they little to gain from an aquisition of Corel. Gnome and KDE are already churning out Office Suites of their own. And I'll bet given a year or two, those Office Suites will be technically superior and more user friendly than anything Corel will have to offer.
Life is like an egg better scrambled than fried. -- Ken Sawatari