Anti-WTO Riot, State of Emergency in Seattle

bridgette writes "The Mayor has declared a state of civil emergency, there is a curfew at 7 p.m. and the police have been using pepper spray and allegedly tear gas, paintball guns and rubber bullets." Stories are at KOMO-TV, MSNBC, Seattle Times, CNN, and probably almost anywhere else you look.

Comments

political ramblings

[MillMan]

I am a bit suprised to see this on slashdot, but since it's here I have a few things to say :)

I posted this link earlier on the "cyber-sit in story" or whatever it was called. I'll warn you this time that it is a very left-wing site, but don't worry, it won't kill you. In fact, you might learn something. It's a good addition to mainstream coverage that doesn't talk about the WTO at a particularly intellectual level.

Z magazine WTO coverage

I didn't think so many people would end up protesting. This is good because it gives the issue LOTS of attention. As usual the media has overblown the violence, looks like a few bonfires and some broken windows. But it looks like its getting a lot uglier. It's been mostly peaceful from what I've seen other than blocking traffic and enterance to the event. Hopefully people from Seattle will keep us up to date.

The WTO applies to the computer and sofware industry the same as it does to every other industry. The WTO is, in my opinion, a government by and for corporations. They don't have any accountabilty to the public. They can overturn laws in any member country that are deemed unfair to competition. The most common example I have seen is that countries in Europe were cited by the WTO for not allowing the sale of American beef products because the cows were treated with hormones. CNN.com has a few other examples in their coverage.

I think the WTO is an extreme form of capitalism that REALLY puts money before people. It takes control away from local governments and the people.

Globalization definately has its benefits. I think most people reading this can see them as far as the hardware and software industry, especially our trade relationship with Asian countries. I see it as a step twords global unification (well, a really small step). But when labor rights and the environment aren't put first, no one wins, and the gap between the rich and poor gets wider. I think this is why so many protesters have descended on Seattle. Corporations have gone too far this time. The establishment better be careful or the next decade could end up being a rehash of the 60's with globalization as the central issue.

At any rate it's an important issue that everyone should try to learn about.

This kills all the real issues!

[PG13]

The WTO has many many good points and several very troubling points such as patent issues and the ever increasing power of corporations. Unfortunatly this protest distracts attention from the real issues and focuses them on the non-issues of unionized labour and 'workers rights.' The violence involved makes it even worse, no one will take seriously the intellectual property concerns after this.

For the record I call the labour concerns irrelevant because at heart of the matter all that is important is how much stuff the workers recieve. Lowering tarriffs can only increase the total amount of goods in a country (more goods enter the nation) and while some citizens may be demoted to lesser jobs a fluid job market will guarantee everyone is still employed and hence the country has more goods in total.

So the net effect of trade barriers is to favor organized labour at the expense of the rest of the country. While you might feel that working class people deserve more money this could easily be accomplished by increasing federal aid to those who don't make much money. Increasing this aid would accomplish the goal of makeing sure the working class are not impoverished while not reducing the total amount of goods in the country.

On the other hand the WTO's seemingly strong stance on intellectual property might restrict the adoption of new/more efficent technology thereby making the world as a whole a less wealthy place (yes I realize IP is necessery to encourage innovation the trick is striking the right balance). But this issue will now be ignored.

Re:Those jeans you're wearing...

[OWJones]

... which is why they're protesting.

I, for one, am very disturbed by the fact that most of the clothes I'm wearing were most likely made by underpriviledged workers, not only in third-world countries, but also here in the US. When the people have a very limited choice, when all they've been given are what they don't want, it's not necessarily their fault if they use it. It is their fault if they don't do anything about it.

I'm just afraid that the overly sensational US media is going to focus on the 20 or 30 idiots who made serious trouble, while the other 40-50K people there behaved themselves. The tension in this country has been growing at a very visible rate in the last few years and I think this is just one of the first (mostly) good outwards signs of it.

Being a (young) 20-something myself, most of the people I know (an interesting mix, seeing as I have both leftist or libertarian friends yet go to a very conservative school) are frustrated and angry about the state of politics in this country. The average person no longer has a voice, and large corporations and government institutions are working hard to make sure we have even less of a voice. Restrictions on encryption, anyone? More wiretapping capabilities built into our hardware and software? The "right" of the NSA and FBI to circumvent due process and keep people under surveillence without a warrant?

The WTO (good article here in pdf) has a track record of leveragaing their power to tromp the soverign laws of independent countries in order to make more money (article here). Powerful representatives from the US and large corporations convince small, developing nations that they need the latest whiz-bang-all-in-one products to even survive in the new world. These representatives then provide tasty soundbites wherein they ask for free trade and villify the protestors for not allowing their poor, starving country to get the best TVs out there (yes, bad example, but you get the point). It's for reasons like this that when I have kids they will never ever have Gerber baby food.

And for everyone who's been saying "Hippie, go home", RTFA (articles) before you make yourself look stupid. Thousands of people from all different walks of life are protesting this, not just a few "burnt-out acid-dropping hippies who crawled out of the woodwork", as much as you'd like to believe that. Middle-aged people who know this is a Bad Thing (TM) are right next to youth who feel they want to make a difference and are motivated to do so. Prominent figures have lent their voices to causes such as this, and the difference is starting to be felt. Previous generations had The Who, The Clash and U2 to send out the call for arms and action against the oppresive elements of their times. Today, groups like Rage Against The Machine are sending out the call to action and education to the youth of today. Do you think it's an accident their album debuted at #1 and is currently the #2 selling album in the world?? I don't think anything short of physical action on this scale (meaning large peaceful yet committed protest groups) are going to bring about the change we need.

Educate yourself. Let yourself get angry. And then do something constructive and meaningful to channel that anger. My 100% support to the protesters in Seattle. Not to mention somewhat reluctant thanks to the police out there for not allowing a re-creation of the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago to occur.

-jdm

_ALL_ the Webcams and Shoutcasts

[Ex Machina]

These should be better in the AM. Reply with new streams and webcams, please.

Cameras
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Audio
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A real shame

[rlkoppenhaver]

It really is too bad. Here we have a group of people who were trying to peacefully make a point about their objections to the WTO. Unfortunately, some other people couldn't keep it peaceful, and then the forces of law and order started resorting to violence even against those who weren't using it themselves. As a result, we're bound to see a lot of commentary on how people are animals, since we all riot at the slightest opportunity, or how the government is oppressive because they pull out pepper spray on peaceful protesters.

Unfortunately, this probably means that the message that the peaceful protesters wanted to get out, that the WTO has a poor track record with environmental and worker issues, is going to be pretty much lost in the noise.

Re:A real shame

[Q*bert]

Heh. I cannot help but smile at the naivete that you show in lamenting that these protests turned "violent". This kind of thing happened in the '60s all the time, with the cops instigating the violence at least as often as the protestors. In any large group of demonstrators, there will always be some who resort to violence, or at least unruly behavior. In any large group of cops, the same is true. In fact, I would say that, in the U.S., the police have a much worse track record of using excessive force than do political demonstrators. Also, you have to consider this: Blocking traffic, stringing up banners, and even smashing windows is not violence. It is at worst disruption. Windows don't have feelings, and putting yourself in someone's way is a far cry from hurting them. On the other hand, clubbing people, firing rubber bullets at them, and choking them up with tear gas are pretty clearly acts of violence. They may not have lasting effects--let's hope not, for those who have been clubbed tonight!--but they are painful and accomplish little. More to the point, they all target the innocent as well as the guilty. I hate to break it to you, but tear gas floats, and rubber bullets are not exactly fired from precision sniper rifles at predictable targets. As others report here, even non-demonstrators are being gassed and shot at.

What I mean to say is that the dynamics of "crowd control" always involve brutality. (Why police don't just stand there with their shields and arrest people, I don't know.) Another thing about situations like these is that, with so many agents acting so unpredictably, is that sudden and wild actions often take place. The breakdown of the walls at Woodstock is one classic example. A much more common and less light-hearted example is that moment in every demonstration-gone-wrong where someone does something violent and suddenly it all erupts into a melee. Such are the dynamics of complex systems. As often as not it is impossible to see who threw the first blow, the police or the protestors. Once someone does, though, things happen fast;

• The police crack down, more or less indiscriminately beating people and firing tear gas;
• Most protestors panic and try to flee the area;
• A few protestors stay and start baiting the police by throwing things at them (like unexploded tear gas cannisters, for instance), fighting back with their fists, and setting things on fire.

From there the situation just goes from bad to worse. In the confusion, a lot of people get hurt with no personal provocation at all. It's a mob scene.

By the way, if you ever decide to lob a tear gas cannister back at the cops, think twice. They are extremely hot when they land, so unless you handle them the right way you will just burn yourself.

Perhaps this is our generation's "baptism of fire". Most of us have never seen a large-scale demonstration, let alone one that turned into a riot. A lot of people here are either shocked by the violence--like you--or disbelieving and blindly trusting in the police. In my opinion, both of these reactions are naive. On the one hand, large demonstrations often turn violent; this is just a fact of life. There are too many agents acting too quickly. Mob scenes are truly an example of complex systems at work. On the other hand, police always exacerbate this violence. I don't know why; they must be taught to do it in riot training. Instead of forming a human wall and arresting the "bad apples", they try to disperse the whole crowd with tear gas and rubber bullets. Perhaps they fear an organized response more than they fear the mob scenes required to disperse a crowd.

As I say, perhaps this is our generation's baptism of fire. Perhaps, too, it will be a turning point in what has so far been general Dilbert-esque grumbling or just plain lying down over the abuses of corporate America. I hope so. Let us remember among the inevitably positive effects of greater protest that riots, too, are inevitable. Insofar as each of us is committed to peaceable conduct, we can help minimize them and contain them, and, above all, deal with them properly when they occur (by getting the Hell out and not baiting the police). However, we cannot prevent them altogether. If we are to repeat the victories of the '60s, we have a long, rough road ahead of us. Things like this will happen.

Vovida, OS VoIP
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It looks like Beirut here...

[strabo]

It is AMAZING what's going on outside right now. I work in the Pioneer Square section of Seattle, just on the south end of Downtown proper. I'm probably insane for still being here, but that's what they pay me the big bucks for, right? Oh yeah, I'm salary. :P

Anyway, I've been watching this whole thing unfold all day, and it has been absolutely insane. The National Guard has been called in, the Downtown area (starting 2 blocks north of me right now) is under curfew until morning, and the tear gas was so thick at times that you could barely see across the street!

When I came down here this morning, it wasn't too bad - there were several tens of thousands of people protesting, but it was mostly under control and peaceful. A little tear gas here and there, but not much. The condition deteriorated throughout the day until around 4:30-5:00 - it started to get dark, and it seems like all hell broke loose.

Watching the news (and the streets, for that matter), it was very surreal - the first thing I wanted to say was "this is happening WHERE?" It looked like CNN coverage of some foreign city under seige by terrorists - not kidding at all... Police in all their riot gear, herding people out of the "curfew zone", shooting tear gas and pepper spray, rubber bullets, and now the National Guard. My kid sister even got tear gassed on her way to work this afternoon!

All in all, I must say that the police have shown some pretty decent restraint through all of this. Lots of gas, etc, but not too much violence, and VERY few arrests - I think the count is at around 22 people. 22 people out of THOUSANDS really isn't bad. The VAST majority of the protesters were also very well-behaved and got their point across well. It wasn't until some of the "hey, let's go riot!" people started coming out of the woodwork before it got nasty.

Very odd day, all in all. There's helicopters flying overhead every couple of minutes, and APC's just up the street, and I'm not sure how I'm going to get home, which is on the other side of the locked down area, but very interesting nonetheless...

*grin* Never again will I say "it couldn't happen HERE... not in MY town..."

- strabo

The WTO

[Anonymous Coward]

The real problem with the WTO is that it gives away too much sovereignty. Here in California we're banning MTBE from gasoline because its somewhat water soluble, and may be a carcinogen. I've heard that there are oil companies in other countries trying to get the ban overturned in court because it violates the WTO guidelines.

If such a case were decided in favor of the oil co.'s, it would basicly mean that the US government has given away California's right to self govern, and the people would have to keep drinking MTBE contaminated water no matter what they thought of the issue.

That's the sort of thing they're protesting against. More power to them! I wish I could go to Seattle and join them.

First-Hand Account

[blackmail]

The following is a first-hand account from a Stanford student of the lack of police brutality:

Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 00:24:07 -0800 (PST)
From: "Louise A."
Subject: Re: EMERGENCY RESPONSE DEMO TO POLICE VIOLENCE IN SEATTLE (fwd)

Greetings from Seattle,

I was at the demo today -- will send out a full report soon -- but for
now, i just want to say that reports of police brutality are not
exaggerated. Many are in fact grossly underestimated. I didn't get
anything worse than tear gas, but police have been
beating with riot sticks
peaceful protestors who sat or lay on the ground. They have taken
protestors who were wearing face masks, covered the inside of the mask
with pepper spray and forced it back onto the person's face. They dragged
an elderly woman across the ground by her hair and an arm. They've shot
rubber bullets at ranges of a few feet, and one officer pulled a real gun
on protestors before other officers restrained him. In addition,
police have _not_ been arresting protestors to any extent -- I heard 18
arrests the whole day -- they have simply been attacking us. Now the
mayor has declared a state of civil emergency, set a 7 pm curfew dowtown,
and called out the National Guard. So if you can make it to the Palo Alto
demo tomorrow, do. (info below if you missed it)

NO WTO!

In solidarity,

Louise A.

Not really...

[strabo]

From what I have seen (I am in downtown Seattle right now), there has been VERY minimal police violence, almost no injuries to people, and the vast majority of the protest WAS nonviolent.

There were a lot of people that started coming out, particularly toward the end of the afternoon/evening, who saw this as an excuse to riot and destroy property. There were also a large number of peaceful protesters trying to talk them down.

For the most part, the police simply used tear gas (not pleasant, but nonviolent), pepper spray, and some rubber bullets. Mostly gas and pepper spray. And they used it fairly sparingly until it became evident that something had to be done to get things under control, and they imposed the curfew. Then they got more agressive with the tear gas to get people OUT of the downtown area.

There was a lot of property destruction done by a small (in comparison) group of people, and the police, for the most part, excersized a good deal of restraint in dealing with it.

Also, for the most part, the protesters (peaceful) that I have talked to feel that today was a GREAT success, that their message was heard, and that their objectives were accomplished. I don't think that will get lost in the noise at all.

All in all, I must applaud both the peaceful protesters of today -and- the police. They both did their jobs, did them well, and nobody really got hurt (that I'm aware of). It could have been A LOT worse.

- strabo