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Ergonomic Office Equipment?
danimal asks: "As I sit at work typing away I wonder what ergonomic office equipment
slashdotters would reccomend? I have seen (and used) the Herman Miller Aeron and I find it very
acceptable. Then there is the issue of desks. At my office we only
have the "surface, two sides, and a brace" style, which are not very
friendly for typing all day. At one former job and other companies
I have seen Biomorph desks. Those seem to have all the right stuff: Adjustable work levels, tiltable keyboard surfaces, and enough space. What do my fellow geeks use and recommend to keep the pain away?" (More)
We seem to do a lot of topics on ergonomics, but after my bout with wrist pain and JWZ's writeup on the subject, I can't stress how important it is to keep up with these things. So I hope all of these articles we do on this subject will give you folks the tools you need to keep yourselves on the right track in the long term.
I have an Aeron at work - I've also longed for one for years, and was really happy to get one...
However, while they are fairly nice and look great, they have a few downsides:
* Can be a little chilly. If you find your office cold, the Aeron does not help at all as the air is free to seek heat from the rear! I don't mind this much, but a few other people that have them have mentioned that to me.
* Not very soft. Perhaps that helps you in some way, but I find myself yearning for a big overstuffed executive chair from time to time.
On the other hand, when you spill a drink on the seat it drains right through - perhaps, in the end, that is the chair's greatest strength.
The ironic part about having this chair at work is that even though everyone at work gets one of these if they want, they refuse to upgrade our 17" monitors to a larger size!!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Ok, so we all like to bag M$ etc, but they do make some pretty good hardware. I swear by my MS keyboard elite and my good old MS Mouse, and i can notice the difference after typing away on my laptops keyboard for hours when i plug the M$ keyboard in at home. They might make shitty software, but their hardware is nice. I'm pondering getting a new intellimouse explorer.. anyone know anything about the ergonomics of them?
- CP
So, you've got an O:Line? That dont impress me much du du da du.
I have tried the Herman Miller chair, but it has the basic flaw of not being 'active'. If you spend most of your day behind a terminal an active chair is a must. Personally I am satisfied with a Stokke chair (Norwegian make). It forces you to keep your back straight. It is also nice when making phone calls or talking to someone: it rocks.
I've been using variants on the split ergonomic keyboard for years - at least since Apple came out with that funky keyboard with the hinge in the middle. It took me about 5 minutes to get used to.
Currently I'm using a Microsoft Natural Pro keyboard (not to be confused with the Natural Elite, which is way inferior). It has all these stupid Internet keys, but they're in the "penalty zone." The control key is in the wrong place, and it has a CAPS LOCK. Not ideal, and MS is still the evil empire, but it has the best feel & response of all the ergo keyboards I've tried.
With a table at correct typing height, a chair in the proper position with armrests, and good wrist support, life is bliss.
I'm all for trying more expensive solutions, but my $120 chair from Office Max and $60 keyboard are about all I need.
ALSO: for good ergonomics, avoid using the mouse when you can. Although mice are more comfortable than they used to be, the simple fact that they're usually a stretch away (or stretching your fingers for those teflon mouse surfaces in keyboards, or variants) means they're more strain than just keeping your hands on the keyboard.
Long live the command line!
Well sorta... In my former life, I was a carpenter, cabinet maker, then an architect before I followed the force and got into networking. I simply designed and built my own desk. Split level, corner based, with a 4' wide keyboard/mouse surface. 6' and 8' side wings, split level, following the main workspace, so I could put more workstations there. I designed it for me, so it definitely wouldn't be optimal for anyone else. The chair, is a $300 Office Max fully adjustable, although I'm really interested in the Areon (my chair is like 3 years old and pretty worn out). I recently moved my office upstairs, leaving the desk stuff downstairs. I've now got a semi-circle desk I got from a local furniture store. Looks kinda like a starship control pod. Still fits my 20" monitor though.
Dive Gear
--- Think of it as evolution in action ---
The aeron chair's okay, but I think I also prefer the Stokke... Biomorph desks are a must, but I (personally) am happy with any decent sitting corner desk, in which there is an elevated section at the corner for my monitor.
15" LCD Active Matrix is nice, really nice. I've been getting a lot less headache since I got one. Long sessions coding are a LOT easier on the eyes. If you can't go LCD (they are really high, I understand this), get at least a quality 19" monitor. 21" is better (for most people), but I prefer my Iiyama 19". Perfect for CRT.
Mouse is always Logitech. The ergonomic Logitech MouseMan + (Wireless if possible) is what does it for me. On occasions, when I don't have access to the wireless, I take a fixed object on my desk (monitor works nice), pull the slack necessary for my mouse cord, and fix it to that with a paper clip bent around the cord. This eliminates the need to have to keep pulling cord up, as well as eliminating too much slack getting in my way. I've seen a mouse pad with a cord clip, but it was too small for me.
This takes me to mouse pads. I find an extremely oversized mouse pads takes a lot of the headache away from graphics work. I've got a "printer" pad that I picked up at CompUSA, which has the perfect mouse pad feel and texture, but is sized at about 14"x18".
That's my take. Any other suggestions?
Well, personally, I think the "Elite" is awful, but I will agree that Microsoft has put out some decent keyboards. The Natural v1 was awesome, with its built in wrist rest. Unfortunately, newer versions have a flip up *back*, which seems to me to be a recipe for RSI. The flip-up front on the v1 allowed you to straighten your wrists. Sure wish I could buy another v1.
Windows users may find Microsoft's mice to be comfortable and functional, but if you use X11, what you really want is a good, wide, three-button mouse. The Logitech WingMan, although marketed as a "gaming mouse", is a quite good X11 mouse, with three wide buttons for your copying-and-pasting pleasure. It is a traditional ball mouse, and works with PS/2 or USB.
The problem with standard keyboard layout is the inability to draw a single vertical line and split the keyboard. Unfortunately, ergonomic keyboards seem to favour the left. Anyone find an ergo keyboard with the letter b on the right?
---
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ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only
I think I appreciate ergo setups more than most people. My best friend has carpal tunnel, severely exacerbated by fibromyalgia. When she has a good day, she has a good day. When she has a bad day, her husband has to brush her teeth for her.
With that in mind, I was very enthused about a year ago when my employer put together a union/management team to begin changing the workplace and upgrading it to OSHA compliance as far as ergonomics. After lots of meetings, we put over 200 people in full ergo setups and learned a few things along the way. Here's a smattering:
1. Classes in using all these new toys were absolutely necessary. For example, every computer is now on a multi-adjustable corner metier table that makes perfect positioning a snap *after* you've been to class. People who tried to set them up before receiving formal instruction tended to wind up with weird and painful configurations.
2. When picking an adjustable table, make sure the keyboard surface is height- and tilt-adjustable completely separately from the CRT.
3. Those expensive gel-type wrist rests are *wonderful*! Everyone seems to love them.
4. When we bought supplies at a "trial" ratio (getting just a couple of units for every dozen people to try so that we could see who wanted things before committing money), we found that scarcity makes people want things. For example, experience has shown that only about 10 percent of users will actually use a separate foot rest. (Ours are nice ones by Rubbermaid.) Thus, we bought them on a ratio of one to five users and figured they'd get passed around till the people that actually needed them wound up with them. Ha! Not a chance! As soon as the workers saw that these things were going to be scarce, they all suddenly felt a need to latch onto one. The initial shipment went like loaves of bread off the back of a U.N. relief truck and the have-nots have been screaming for the things ever since. (Unfortunately, the money it will take to equip everybody isn't in the budget right now.) I know that when we finally get one for each person, most of them will wind up in a corner, gathering dust. But compliance with the Union agreement trumps all else and we'll have to find the money.
5. As for telephone headsets, I consider them a valuable ergo accessory. Unfortunately, we bungled their distribution the same way as the footrests.
6. Chairs were a huge problem. If you're putting new chairs in a large unionized shop, do what we did: Let the Union pick the chair. People are pretty picky about where they park their butts all day. We knew that whatever we chose would be hated by someone enough for them to file a grievance. By letting the Union do the choosing, management totally avoided the problem. "You don't like your chair? It hurts your back? Sure, you can file a grievance. Just figure out a way to file it against your own Union! Hahahahaha!!!"
7. As a Union member, I oversaw the chair selection. We narrowed the field to about 10 different chairs based on basic OSHA specs and the ability of vendors to meet those specs and get us samples. We then had every employee come into the sample display room in rotation, sit in every chair, and vote. The final selection was a high-backed fully adjustable chair with the name "SuperFurntiture" embossed on the back. I have no idea who actually made the thing, but just about everybody could live with them. They don't have too many adjustments and they don't have any detachable accessories, but everybody can get them into a configuration that's acceptable.
8. Another chair that was available for vote broke during the voting. You know that when a chair back snaps and dumps an employee on their butt right in front of everyone, nobody is going to vote for that one! However, this particular chair was "modular" according to the sales rep. Everything could unplug and be replaced. At first, this looked like a versatile option. We eventually realized, however, that what it really meant was having to buy, warehouse, and install a mind-boggling array of accessories that would make for serious administrative headaches. I was very glad this chair broke and I would counsel people to avoid any such chairs that seem to have been designed by guys who spent too much time playing with Transformers when they were kids.
9. The Aeron chair referenced in the lead-in was a very interesting case. People either loved or hated it. There was almost no in-between. The problem with it is that it's TOO adjustable. It uses a huge wind-up (watch-type? I don't know what to call it.) spring to set the basic firmness of the chair. Loosened up, it's suitable for a 70-pound waif. Tightened up, it's suitable for a 300-pound guy like me. Problems occur, though, when a large person sits down in a chair adjusted for a light person. The chair immediately tips completely back, causing people to catch themselves, bolt out of the chair, and declare it a menace. A large person who just plops down in one of these chairs that's adjusted for a small person may very well find themselves dumped on their back on the floor. This is definitely not a good thing and makes the chair unsuitable for an office where chairs are shared. However, I personally felt it was by far the most comfortable chair when adjusted properly. (That opinion was almost universally shared by people who let me adjust the chair to their weight *before* they sat down. First impressions mean a lot.) If I had to get an ergo chair for myself, this would be my choice.
Equipping a large office to OSHA-compliant levels was expensive and difficult, but our experience in the new office environment convinces us that it's well worth it. In fact, despite the cost, I'm now in the middle of re-equipping my workstation at home. Today the gel-type wrist rest, tomorrow the Aeron!
:-)
I discovered this chair while contracting for Microsoft -- they put all of their employees in it. Liked it so much that I bought one for home. If you work at MS -- even as a contract employee -- you're eligible to buy the Criterion for what MS pays for it. Email furnfac.
The bottom line is that human bodies are different from each other. We don't just come in different shapes and sizes, we have different work patterns too. Let me give an example. While I don't normally work that way, there are days when I spend hours on my feet running between labs and hovering over a number of different keyboards as I gather information to track a bug. When I get back to my desk, there is nothing I want to do more than get the weight off my feet. Certainly, putting my feet up on my desk and my keyboard on my lap violates several rules for good posture that or ergo people taught us at work. And it is indispensible for 15 minutes or so.
Probably one of the contributing factors in my lack of carpal tunnel is the fact that I use five different keyboards regularly. I use them in different positions. I use a variety of software with a variety of different typing patterns. I fear if I were to trying to make all of the various work environments that I use ergonomically correct, and presumably much more similar to each other, that I might do damage because I would develop a similarly bad posture or pattern of use in each one.
The net will not be what we demand, but what we make it. Build it well.
Because of my rather unusual workstation setup, I need an articulated monitor arm. When I first developed the layout, I figured the arm would be easy to find.
Think again! I've scoured local and on-line office supply stores, and have found exactly two places that claim to sell them--Innovative Office Products, and TechRack. And both of those are geared more to large buyers and resellers than to small businesses and individuals. And the prices! Holy moley! I'd love it if someone could recommend another good place to find these things.
I'm looking for something that will hold a 19-inch monitor (about 80 pounds) and a keyboard, and that will work when turned 90 degrees on its mounting. All leads appreciated.
As for other ergonomics, I'd have to agree with the 3-button mouse recommendation; I lean toward Logitech. And a large monitor, and a Dvorak keyboard layout. If I could just get that blasted arm, my workstation would really start to shape up.
Problem with all the ergo furniture (aside from chairs) I've seen is that they are oriented towards people who have one computer with only one monitor. For people like me who have two computers with 2 monitors each there is no ergo furniture that I've seen. Anyone got any practical pointers? (Pointer can't be get rid of any equipment. You don't know productivity until you've worked full time with multiple heads and computers.)
It sits on my lap, or I can plop it down on a blueprint when taking data off a print into CAD, or wherever it is comfortable. I use the Logitech "wireless desktop" which uses radio, not IR, so I don't have to worry about line-of-sight. It is ever so much easier on the wrists than an ordinary wire-bound keyboard sitting up on a desk. When your wrists get tired of having the keyboard here, move it over there. The only thing I don't like is the lack of a keypress "click." Go to a local Office Depot or CompUSA and check it out.
Alas, apparently you can't get the clean-looking original model like I've got any more; instead Logitech now offers one that looks like the original but defaced with ugly little warts all along the top, like the keyboards that come with new Compaq Presarios, HP Pavilions, and other PCs aimed at the home market. (If you use their driver, which I suppose works only under MS OSes, when you tap these warts they fire up your CD player, your Internet browser, and so on.)
It also comes with a wireless three-button-plus-scroll-wheel mouse. I'd prefer a wireless trackball but the mouse is OK. There's a nice blank spot in the upper right corner of the keyboard where a trackball would fit perfectly (hint, hint, Logitech).
Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
A lot of time, you're working at someone else's desk in someone else's office. In my case, I have my home computer which is in heavy use by two different people and a cubicle which is covered in printouts.
A friend of mine, Dana wears Soft Flex Gloves. At about $25 a pair, it's a very cheap portable solution.
No Zen is good zen
Billsf: Try a trackball, especially one like my LogiTech Trackman Marble, which is thumb operated. It takes a little getting used to, but you leave your arm in a single position and move only your thumb - so your back doesn't get sore from moving your entire arm around. I can "mouse" for hours without getting sore, and my "workspace" is a folding party table and a somewhat adjustable cheap office chair. With a normal mouse, I'm feeling the telltale signs of strain within 45 minutes. It really works!
HTH,
This is an excellent book by Pete Egoscue. He is an anatomical physiologist specializing in remediating and preventing injuries.
The premise is that it's not the fancy (and very expensive) "ergonomic" equipment that makes the difference, it is how you sit, how you type, etc.
For example, I have a "regular" office chair, and my lower back was starting to bother me quite badly. I was getting set to shell out $$ for a fancy ergo chair when I was given this book by a friend. I implemented Egoscues suggestions, and my back pain is now gone, w/o spending big $$ for a fancy chair.
The book costs $10.95, an ergo chair will run $400+. I'd say give the book a shot, first.
Though it doesn't look as cool as some of the sci-fi chairs do. ;-)
Gordon.
He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.
-- J.R.R. Tolkien
So I went on a mission: to find the most confortable chair I could buy. I tried many chair, including the Herman Miller's.
I settled for the knee tilter high back Obus Forme.
The chair is a dream. You can even sleep on it and don't feel tired. It can be used as a rocking chair too
I liked so much that I got one more for my university office.
The main features of the chairs are:
We (my SO and I) paid US$200 each for 2 of these(we landed a good deal). The suggest price is around US$400 and US$500. If you shop for one, make sure you get the knee tilter because the chair is built with central tilting too.
I am thinking about bying one of those chair keyboards and then I'll truly feel like captain of the Enterprise.
Am I really the only one who doesn't use a chair at all? I've got a king size mattress on the floor and lay down on it. It's impossible to get back pain that way and it supports my arms too. The end fits about 5 laptops next to each other; you can also put monitors on the floor next to the mattress. The problem of not enough desk space is gone, too; essentially the whole floor acts as a desk! The thing I like best is that I can get naked and wrap myself in a continental quilt for those late night hacking sessions. It rocks!
Any technology which is distinguishable from magic is not sufficiently advanced.
I have been Working with a mouse and the keyboard
for over 12 years now, and I've never had any
problems. There are a lot of companies out their
who would love to see you buy all the ergonomic
gadgets they can come up with.
But I really think you just shouldn't sit in the
same position for too long. Don't get me wrong
I think it's a good thing that we're thinking
about the problems and are taking actions.
But how far will this thing go? Are we going to
sit in a special seat where you can't even move
freely about? I really don't think that these
gadgets will bring the solution.
personally I train my arms and fingers with the
simplest of things I have lying around on my desk.
Like pencils or little balls etc.
as I've said 12 years and not one day of pain,
I'm not going to spend my money on those things.
They will not help me, if you think they will
be of any help to you I think you should get them.
Rob A.
The Answer is always simple.
Most important things that are often overlooked:
:o)
(i) A decent sized desk with enough room to have the keyboard and monitor straight in front of you *and* enough left over to have a standard letter sized sheet of paper in front of that. All too often I've had to work at a shallow desk where because of the depth of the monitor, and the desk being pushed up against a wall or another desk, I've had to have the monitor off to the side. And free space on either side too for your manuals and notepad etc.
(ii) A good keyboard. I don't like too much cleverness in keyboards. The classic KeyTronic KYB601 is my choice. Their new "ergonomic" KT2001 sucks rocks.
(iii) A good quality mouse. It should be the right size and shape to fit the hand in its resting position. I quite like the Microsoft Intellimouse myself. Even the old classic MS "Dove bar" mouse wasn't half bad. Watch out though, the OEM version isn't made to the same high quality as the proper retail version, and it shows.
(iv) A good quality high res monitor. If you need to have several windows open at a time you need 1600x1200 to avoid unnecessary mouse movement. At that resolution you need a 19inch diagonal or bigger. And the refresh rate has to be 75Hz or more, and small fonts should be clearly readable.
Oh yeah, and (v): A nearby vending machine with chocolate bars in it
If I've got all those things then just about any standard adjustable office chair will do. Wrist rests? Pah.
Consciousness is not what it thinks it is
Thought exists only as an abstraction
An alternative I haven't seen mentioned is to use a "swiss ball"/"mediball" instead of a conventional chair.
Quick description. With a convention chair, your back muscles lock into place once your sit down. If you don't take your RSI breaks regularly, that means that your back muscles may be flexed in the same position for several hours, resulting in strain and pain. (yada, yada, yada.)
In contrast, using a mediball, which fundamentally is simply a large inflated ball, forces the back and legs to be continually making micro-adjustments to keep yourself erect. As a result, your muscles keep moving and don't lock up; resulting in less back pain and a substantially stronger and healthier back.
The downside is that it takes a few weeks to physically adjust; initially, your back muscles aren't strong enough to handle more than half-an-hour or so at a time. But you quickly adjust and now I can use my ball full time, resulting in what I feel has been a significant improvement to my personal health.
One other advantage: a mediball costs under $100; a nice saving versus a conventional ergo chair.
There's more propaganda about them at:
http://www.healthtrek.net/
Last week I spent several hours trying out chairs at the Herman Miller and Steelcase showrooms. I was surprised to find that both the Miller Aeron Chair and the Steelcase Leap Chair (their Aeron-killer) had broken adjustment controls and were of cheap plastic construction (Aeron: barely adequate; Leap: hopelessly flimsy). In fact, the Steelcase dealer wouldn't even show me the Leap chair until he first demonstrated the older Criterion, so I wouldn't get a bad first impression.
There is a useful book, Compute In Comfort, by Paul Linden, a phys. ed. Ph.D. and martial artist who has intensively studied movement and posture. His main rap is that you can greatly reduce stress by becoming aware of how your body feels, and adjusting your position so that your skeleton carries the weight directly (good posture), instead of having weight hanging off-axis, held by constant muscle tension (bad posture). This balancing is achieved by the proper pelvic tilt, which controls the curvature of the lower back. He advises sitting on different wedge-shaped pads to feel how relaxing it is to the back when you find the best seat angle. Since you need to change position, you need to change seat angle. Linden claims that this is the most important parameter in a chair. To remain comfortable longer, the shape of your back should be established by the angle of the seat, not just the chair back.
Of the current Herman Miller and Steelcase lines, only the Criterion lets you tilt the seat as desired and then lock it at that angle. The Aeron and Leap chairs let the seat tilt down-in-front, for leaning forward, but lock in only two positions.
One thing to consider is that the older chairs are much more solidly built, so you could get a used one and still expect a long life from it. I found broken plastic parts and broken seat tilt locks on both top-of-the-line all-plastic chairs, Aeron and Leap, this despite the Aeron's twelve-year warranty.
Here are my observations:
Aeron (Herman Miller): Very confortable to lean back in- doesn't tend to pull your shirt out or create pressure under the thighs due to its sophisticated linkage system with the main pivot near the knees. Three sizes. Arms adjust to different heights and different angles in the horizontal plane, but arm-arm distance is fixed.
Lumbar pad slides up and down; plastic was worn and it wouldn't stay put. Seat tilt locks in normal or forward position (except it didn't work). Back tilt can be set to stop at choice of three angles. Seat is woven material in tension, like a hammock; very comfortable lack of pressure spots, but pelvic tilt is undeterministic. $750.
Equa 2 (Herman Miller): Very comfortable and strongly constructed. A contender. Three sizes. Seat and back are one-piece fiberglass shell, seat and back flex independently, providing support in different sitting positions. Arms adjust in height, spacing, and angle. Inflatable lumbar support adjustable up-and-down. Main seat pivot is near the knees. Can be locked in upright position. Also available as simpler bent-tube-frame model.
Leap (Steelcase): Their answer to the Aeron. Of surprisingly thin plastic construction. Flexible one-piece plastic back has adjustable curvature for low back firmness control, but it wouldn't lock in place. Front of seat can tilt down for sitting forward, but this control also was broken. Arms adjust in height, spacing, and angle, but rattled around a bit in locked position. Salesman didn't want to tell me how much they were asking for this turkey.
Criterion (Steelcase): Very comfortable and strong. Seat can be locked at any desired tilt angle; so can back. Back adjusts up-down and seat adjusts forward-back for perfect fit. Couldn't crank the recliner spring as stiff as I would like. Arms adjust in height and spacing, but not angle. One size. A strong contender.
Sensor (Steelcase): Quite comfortable, solid, older design. Three sizes. Back adjusts up-down, different recline limit stops. Contoured seat tilts from center. Arms adjust in height, apacing, not angle. Also needs a stiffer spring for reclining.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler. -Albert Einstein
Oh, you mean like the ExecuCizer from Woody Allen's film Bananas?
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions