Slashdot Mirror
Online Journal Publisher Raided by Police
mwalker writes "Transasia Corporation is claiming over a million dollars in damages based on their claim that a search engine request using the word 'Leonardo' brings up not only their web sites but also those of the MIT-published Leonardo arts organization. What's worse is that the police have now raided the publication for incriminating papers (papers containing the word 'Leonardo')." Okay. This is over the edge. Way worse than the Etoys/etoy stupidity. I'm making a personal donation to the Leonardo Defense Fund, 425 Market Street, 2nd Floor, San Francisco, California, 94105, U.S.A. I strongly urge other Slashdot readers to take their own appropriate actions - short of lawbreaking or violence, of course. Here's the Leonardo Finance site so you can see the enemy's face first-hand. Unbelievable!
- Robin
MIT has a tradition of elaborate hoaxes.
Either some officer was seriously bribed, or else this is a hoax.
Cheers,
Ben
My usual seat in the cluetrain is at A HREF="http://pub4.ezboard.com/biwethey.ht
You cannot own the word Leonardo... it's a name. Leo DiCaprio could be attacked too, I guess. Hey why don't you dig up Leonardo DaVinci and beat him up, he's infringing too!
If this madness doesn't stop, I'm founding my own planet, one with no patents or such. (Or a BETTER patent system... one that exists to protect IP and to do nothing else... no "giving huge corporations the edge" or that crap... maybe they'll have to start protecting their ideas with good, old fashioned security.)
But let's think about this for one more moment... they're claiming to own the word Leonardo... !!!... Utter stupidity.
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
On another note, I would like to announce that I have trademarked and patented the use of every word in this comment. Anyone using the words "If," "this," "kind," etc. will be immediately sued for... one MILLION dollars!
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
I don't know where wired got it from, but this article on Etoys references the Leonardo problem http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,33189,00 .html The article is about a rally to protest against Etoys. A quote from the article: "Also appearing at the event was Jack Ox, a New York-based editorial advisor for Leonardo, a scholarly review published by MIT Press now facing a similar suit to the one challenging etoy. Transasia Corporation has filed suit in Nanterre, France, against Association Leonardo, the non-profit arts organization that produces the journal, for trademark infringement. The company is claiming more than US$1 million in damages in lost revenue." ulf
(Paris, 1999/12/23)
After its successful lawsuit against ``Association Leonardo'' for illegal use of the trademark ``Leonardo'', and somehow managing to be placed higher than them in web search results, Leonardo® Finance filed a suit against the famous on-line discussion forum ``slashdot'' this morning for commenting on the matter without acknowledging the fact that the term ``Leonardo'' was a registered trademark of Leonardo® Finance. They claim $42 billion damages due to the massive slashdot readership, and legal experts all agree that slashdot is sure to be found guilty as charged.
``This is terrible,'' is reported to have said slashdot creator CmdrTaco, ``I have no choice but to close the site. This means I'll never be able to pay the damage.''
After this, Leonardo Finance is expected to sue the gli Uffizi museum in Florence for showing paintings of the Renaissance painter Leonardo® da Vinci without duly acknowledging Leonardo® Finance's ownership of the trademark. ``We will probably settle for the paintings themselves;'' said a representative of the finance firm; ``by rights they should be ours, anyway.''
Leonardo® da Vinci was unreachable for comments.
The lawsuit is not against the journal based at MIT. It is against the French non-for-profit organization ``Association Leonardo'', the French chapter of the Leonardo Network.
See this page for more details. As it is hosted by MIT Press, I don't think the whole affair is BS.
Anyone heard the latest on LEONARDO DiCaprio? Word on the street is he's making a new movie that chicks are sure to dig. Unfortuately, girls, there's bad news too: rumors are flying about a hookup between LEONARDO and Britney Spears. What a hot couple. I bet they'll be together forever!
My, it's been a while since the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were popular. In my opinion, Splinter was the coolest character, but he was surely closely followed by LEONARDO!
Here's a little fun little-known fact for you readers out there: LEONARDO the turtle's name was inspired by an artist/scientist from waaaaaaay back in the rennaisance named LEONARDO DaVinci! You might have heard of him.
My, there's been a lot of talk about people named LEONARDO in today's column hasn't there. Well, here's another fun fact about the name LEONARDO: The name LEONARDO, a close relative of Leo, Leonard, and Leon, means "Like a Lion".
Let's hope the lions, er, lawyers, aren't sent after me because of this column. Time will tell, dear readers. Time will tell.
--
grappler
Vidi, Vici, Veni
This is not an MIT prank. I blew up when I saw the submission because I have always *liked* Leonardo and ISAST - and because the idea of suing over search engine placement is a new low.
I'm sorry that so many Slashdot readers took this as an opportunity to knock the French. Leonardo was founded in France, and ISAST is as international as, well, Linux. One dumb company and a few over-reaching French cops don't reflect on the whole country any more than some of the obnoxious moves made by U.S. Government agencies and U.S. companies reflect on all U.S. citizens.
I'm going to spend the rest of the night shaking my head and asking myself, "What is this world coming to?"
Note "the world." All of it, not any particular country. ;-)
- Robin
Suing over results in a search engine? Either someone at LF has been seriously misinformed or they need a serious talking to.
If this was an actual problem, wouldn't everyone have sued every other search engine over this by now? Eesh.
I'm quite fluent in French, and I think my IS deparment is going to have a word with their IS department. Want to get in touch with LF? Here you go for those who don't mind making international calls/faxes:
Tel: +33(1) 47 20 24 88
Fax: +33(1) 49 52 01 01
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When I search for 'Leonardo' on any given search engine, I pull up 50 million pages for Leonardo DiCaprio, 3 for Leonardo/ISAST, and 2 for Leonardo Finance. My question is, doesn't Leonardo DiCaprio have more money? They must not be a very smart finance firm...
here is more information on the raid, and a snippet:
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The subject basically says it. The company is suing, it feels rightfully, over trademark infringement, and as evidence of this it is using the search engine results to say, basically, "Look, this company is diluting our trademark!" It's an interesting excuse, that a search engine result could be used as evidence.
With that in mind, the search warrant seems odd, and what seems even odder is that it could be served. Does anyone know of any previous case history where the police needed to search a premises for trademark infringement? The only thing I could think of looking for is some sort of knowledge of the infringement which might incriminate. Normally, this information can be requested through a subpoena.
In any case, I thoroughly hope this actually goes to court. Slashdot is quick to jump on the case of anyone even bringing up a case like this, but I think the actual problem is that none of this has gone through the legal system yet. Once a few precedents get established (based on already established precedents, I might add, which will probably make it very easy for the Journal to win), less and less of these cases will come to trial, I bet.
Tell the coalition of plaintiffs to go through with the case. Then end the message with, "Ha ha. We need the precedent and you can look funny when you set it."
I pulled these off of the contact page of the Leonardo Finance page:
Yves Delacour : yves.delacour@leonarofinance.fr
Franck Monnot : fmonnot@leonardofinance.fr
Valérie Virlouvet : valerie.virlouvet@leonardofinance.fr
It should be a good idea too confirm this before donating any money.
"Bernoulli was wrong. X proves that you can fill a vacuum, yet still it sucks." - Dennis Ritchie
From roblimo's post:
. I'm making a personal donation to the Leonardo Defense Fund, 425 Market Street, 2nd Floor, San Francisco, California, 94105, U.S.A. I strongly urge other Slashdot readers to take their own appropriate actions - short of lawbreaking or violence, of course.
From the post I am replying:
You aren't doing so hot where it counts. Stories about robots and the like are massively cool, but "strongly encouraging" me to send my money somewhere to defend against something I think is inane?
Now with both relevant sentences side to side i would like to ask bugzilla and all the moderators who believe this is worthy of a 5, where does roblimo strongly encourage anyone to send money...? he said he has sent money and strongly encourages every one to take appropriate action. Now since I am assuming that that slashdotters are generally of above average intelligence I feel stupid pointing out that all roblimo said is "I have sent money, do what you feel is right". Now unless everyone else on slashdot has been implanted with obedience chips or has had their logic circuits fried, how is this even mildly coercing people to send money? I would assume that the average slashdotter (i.e. geek, scientist, intelligent human being) is more individual than bugzilla and all the moderators who agreed with him think...and thus does not rush of to listen to the Who, or buy AIBOs or download Quake 1 source code simply because Roblimo or CmdrTaco suggests it. So why should they send money to some fund based on Rob's opinions only?
It seems that you are making the Slashdot a role model and are now complaining because you don't approve of this role model's behavior. Please stop this kind of thinking....I am already pissed at all the parents that have forced warning labels on everything I watch, listen to and read. We don't need that crap ( disclaimers and pseudo-censorship) on slashdot too. After all I had assumed that the slashdot readership was at least mature if not adult enough to take responsibility for their own actions.
I can't wait to stop seeing posts bitching about slashdot and its owners on this site. If you don't like it, leave, don't start fscking it up for us that are don't sweat the small stuff by posting you're view of how slashdot should be. If you feel that strongly about it...grab the source, create your own site, and stop bitching here.
Bad Command Or File Name
"Loser pays" has problems of its own. Let's say Amalgamated Megacorp is screwing you over by dumping toxic waste in your swimming pool. You take them to court, but because they have millions to spend on O.J.'s legal team and the Chewbacca defense, you lose. You now have to pay their legal costs. You end up bankrupt, ruined, living on the street in a cardboard box.
Given the possibility of having to pay millions for your opponent's legal fees, average citizens are unlikely to bring suits against the rich and powerful even if their case has merit.
What do prosecutors have to do with civil litigation? Although that's an interesting idea, making the state liable for defendant's legal fees if a prosecution fails.Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
This needs to be a wake up call to everyone that companies will do anything to put themselves into a position where they can sue someone else.
Does Leonardo Finance think that they have the right to sue someone because their page shows up in the same search query? This is beyond belief, and it will be even more rediculous if this goes ANYWHERE in court.
Do we actually need laws to stop these people from bringing stupid lawsuits up? I hate to say it, but at the rate things are going, we might need a little government control to smack these companies around. Someone needs to propose some kind of bill to stop this BS. As much as I hate government control, this seems like the only way to stop this type of action, which is most certainly against the spirit of the net, is through the government or the legal system.
I'm sure most Slashdotters are quite sick of this type of action, but it seems our protests aren't doing anything to help. We need to tell the legal system that we expect all behavior of this type to be thrown out immediately.
It seems we're already losing the patent battle, with Amazon's suit being held in court. This is the next step, with companies suing eachother of lame stuff like this. I'm wondering where it will stop, if it does.
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Roblimo, please post a followup when they throw this out of court. Don't leave us thinking that the world never corrects it's errors .. as an ordinary newspaper would do to it's readers.
FTHI:
I dont know if anyone else has noticed, but Slashdot recently (past 6 monthes) seems to jump on the band wagon, conclusions etc. way to fast. Sure, the etoy/etoys thing turned out to be true. But now, your starting to ask us to send money, all because of an article on the cusp of news? Relax guys! Let me just say this to people with money to burn out there, hold your money, until you see the facts, from multiple organizations before we break out the Witch burning kit.
This is simply to hard to beleive.
More race stuff in one place,
than any one place on the net.
There ought to be some major urges for tort reform, and I mean tort reform with punitive damages available. It makes me sick that deep-pocket corporations can use the high costs to the legal system to bully those annoying "citizens" who live in the country.
In the mean time, we've got to figure out a way to hurt these people without being juvenile about it (Script-kiddieing is not the way to go). Unfortunately, as EToys has pointed out, they don't really see an impact from our boycotts -- we're just not enough in the target audience.
I feel pretty helpless. If only we lived in a country where people had enough brain cells to take the system back from the corporate special interests that control it (but we don't). So many people vote straight tickets or for the candidate that promotes Jesus the most or whoever brings back the pork barrel programs, it just seems like intelligent people can't make any difference.
Well, I'm depressed now.
In case anyone does feel hopeful, here's my list of things that need to happen (in order):
Take away corporation's ability to interfere in elections. There's a bad Supreme Court decision that allows corporations to essentially buy candidates with "soft money" and the like.
Major tort reform: With punitive damages at the judge's discression. See above.
Pump money into the public schools: The smarter the populace, the more people who can think for themselves, the better. Better teachers, smaller school systems, smaller class sizes, more community involvement. This includes requiring decent alternative education choices for people who don't learn in the "conventional" way. While we're at it, get the fsck'ing corporations *out* of the school.
Start sending execs who break the law to prison: No fine will deter a major corporation from breaking the law. Sending the execs who cause said corporation to break the law will.
I could go on, but this post is long enough already. Suffice it to say: This bullshit will continue until America either breaks the hold of the corporations. The only alternative is revolution; CEOs everywhere should take notice that all the money in the world didn't protect, say, Nicholas II or Battista. In any event, we're (and I'm speaking to the non-Firsters, the non-trolls and the non-knee-jerk slashdotters, which disqualifies a lot of the people who port) the ones who will have to make the changes happen. I don't see it happening, and it makes me sad.
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Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
IANAL, especially a not a French lawyer, but this is just nuts. No way in hell is this suit going to go in Leonardo Finace's favor. First of all, there is ample evidence that Leonardo Arts was there long before Leonardo Finance's trademark, and that alone should invalidate the case. The fact that Leonardo is a name of a person further invalidates it. If this suit succeeds, I will no longer be able to have any respect for the french legal system. Frankly, I would hope that this be thrown out the first time a judge takes a look at it.
Moreover, this suit cannot succeed on PR grounds. Not even CNN-style obfuscation as with the eToy issue can cover up the egregious stupidity of this suit. Leonardo Finance is clearly the bad guy here, and will certainly appear so if this gets any media coverage. Leonardo Finance's only hope is that this won't get any attention, because any attention it gets will be bad for them. With any luck, and some help from Slashdot (media people! we know you're reading this!), this will get lots of attention.
In fact, this is so obviously grounds-less that it seems to me it must be an intimidation tactic. Leonardo Finance is hoping that it can scare Leonardo Arts into backing down and settling in a manner agreeable to Leonardo Finance. Leonardo Arts is calling their bluff, and Leonardo Finance is going to have to back down very fast or be at risk of looking like a fool, wasting money on an unwinnable court battle, and possibly exposing themselves to countersuit (Is this possible under French law?).
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" -Salvor Hardin
For an interesting perspective on police != protection, you might read Dial 911 and Die, which was put together by the Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership. Even if you're not ESR with a tallit and sidelocks, you might be interested.
PS, moderators, a post's pro-firearms content is insufficient cause for moderating it down.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
As I read through alot of this and other threads, I notice many people getting ready to DOS them off the face of the earth. By flooding their mailboxes, you make sure that they will not have a chance to read any of the well thought out (but probably still scathing) responses to their action.
By all means, I'm not saying don't flame them. I'm working on an email in french which might blister some of the paint... But I'd really appreciate it, if there was a chance that they might hear some of us.
I know Slashdot is hardly known for it, but it'd be nice to show some maturity.
More on topic: I think that actions such as these are a disgrace, the warrent should never have been issued or served. They said that their first concern in all of this was that the MIT site came up first in a search engine... Isn't that evidence enough? When they are sending out a journal by that name, and also have a web site using it, what does searching the premisis do besides constitute harassment?
I almost hope someone is getting the facts wrong here, because this is amazingly stupid.
Would you do it for some scoobie crack?