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The Upcoming LinuxOne IPO
AlphaBrav sent news that LinuxOne is planning to
up their IPO price range. For those who don't know who LinuxOne is, don't feel bad: read this amazing article that point by point shows that there are more problems with this company then I can list in this space, although my favorites include their CEOs questionable past, GPL violations, and a corporate web server that not only doesn't run their own distribution but offers to sell you a (binary only) CD if only you send your credit card unencrypted to them. Best of all, their ticker symbol is set to be LINX.
Sounds like a winner to me!
But of course, PT Barnum will still have his say at the IPO, and I certainly wouldn't turn down some shares...
Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
hmm...The article says that LinuxOne has reserved shares for "fellow" open-source developers. Two questions:
/. knows that linuxone sucks. Does anyone in the "real world" know? Like, do bankers, and mutual fund managers, and people like that know how bad this company is going to fail? If not, does Slashdot (or Andover) have enough clout to talk to the folks at cnn.com, abcnews.com, or some other mass-media place to get the word out?
1. Did anyone get "the letter"? If you did, are you going to buy shares?
2. What open-source development have they done? Did they GPL the big scam that they're putting on here?
Now, it's great that everyone here on
Juiced? Or Not?
Up from $6-$8 per share to... *gasp* $8.25! These guys just OOZE confidence!
l w-11-linuxone.html) is a great place to start.
Hrm. The only thing that makes me feel better is that a quick check of techstocks.com, fool.com, and ragingbull.com shows that nobody has even started any message boards for LINX yet. For those of you that frequent these boards, do your best to educate. The link above (http://www.linuxworld.com/linuxworld/lw-1999-11/
People whine about Red Hat going corporate, and Corel GPL violations, which is fine. Let's keep them honest. But if you really want to defend Linux's integrity as it enters the corporate world, debunking LinuxOne is probably a great place to start.
----
"I will take the Ring," he said, "though I do not know the way."
Not really suprising that there would eventually be a company that comes up trying to get in on the cash feeding frenzy that seems to go hand in hand with Linux IPOs.
:)
IMHO, any linux company that wants to survive several years past the date of their IPO probably will need to have at least a reasonable amount of goodwill from the community. As I see it, companies like VA and RedHat have that. LinuxOne probably doesn't. (And if they do, they probably won't for long)
There are enough daytraders out there that lost their asses on both redhat and VA (buying at the very peak and then watching it slide down to something more reasonable) and those were good companies. I think that LinuxOne in the IPO market has the real potential to make a few suicidal drunk wifebeating daytraders.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
Gamers' Linux, the Linux distribution devoted to games (specifically, RedHat Linux 6.1 with Quake 3 Arena and Unreal Tournament installed), has filed a S-1 and will be offering shares at the end of Q1/2000.
The Distribution will be available any time now, and you can also get the source code for only $45 (sorry we have no FTP site yet).
We expect to open up at $.25/share and rocket up to about $.75/share before either K-Mart buys us up or Linus Torvalds sues the bejeezus out of us for GPL violations...
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
You may have heard the saying "all publicity is good publicity." What is going to happen if LinuxOne turns out to be a terrible company and a ton of investors get burned on a shoddy distribution? LinuxOne is going to get bad publicity. Most of it will be from the traditional media, many of whom still think all Linux is the same thing, and therefore the bigger a flop LinuxOne becomes, the bigger a black mark against "Linux/OpenSource."
This blanketing attitude is changing, though; even CBS can tell the difference between a RedHat and a VA. And if LinuxOne burns some people, it will be our opportunity to turn bad news into good. We need to represent LinuxOne as the Yin to our Yang. We need to say, "This is what happens when you do it wrong," in addition to, "This over here is what happens when you do it right."
Over time, this will add news media credibility to our store. It will make it possible for people to tell the difference between a good Linux distribution and a bad one, and as a point of comparison it will clarify some issues in peoples' heads over why Open Source is a good idea, and why it is successful.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
If ESR was "right", the cliche would be "it's Open Source as in Open Source-dom, not Open Source as in beer." There is free software and there is gratis software.
--
Connected to rinoa.LinuxOne.NET.
Escape character is '^]'.
Welcome to LinuxOne! This is rinoa.
Red Hat Linux release 6.0 (Hedwig)
Kernel 2.2.5-15 on an i686
login:
Riiiight.
Except you chose to be the slave.
Another company sees the opportunity to make money. You could do the same... roll your own distro, incorporate, get some VCs behind you and you too could be a Linux billionair.
This is clearly an attempt to rake in a fortune and run. There's no product there. If there was, and it was any good, they'd use it. They don't. If they knew enough to -make- a system, they'd have secure e-commerce. They don't. If they understood the licence, they wouldn't be doing binary-only distributions. They are.
IMHO, we'll see the board cut & run to some tax haven that has no extradition treaty with the US or Europe within a year, probably months, possibly even weeks, after the IPO.
This probably won't be fatal to Linux. In fact, the sooner they run, the better for Linux, as it'll be clearer that it was crooks and not simply computer geeks pretending to be business nerds. It -will- be damaging to Linux, though, if the pretense keeps going long enough for people to believe that the guys are genuine, because then that could provoke a backlash against the whole Open Source concept. ("Look at Bill Gates! Now -HE- knows how to run a company. These wannabe's, with their high ideals and no business sense are just wasters and loosers.")
The sooner LinuxOne explodes into a corruption scandal, the better it'll be for everyone. IMHO, it'll happen sooner or later, whether that's tomorrow or 50 years from now. I'd just rather it was early enough for it to not take down the entire Open Source movement with it.
IMHO, if these guys want money, will some rich twit give it to them, and tell them to go away? Far as I'm concerned, they're going to get the money anyway, but it needn't senselessly destroy everything that the Linux community has worked to build. The Linux community is incidental to LinuxOne's aims, so it doesn't harm or benefit them if it survives or vanishes. There's no reason for them to work for either end. I'd rather it survived, though, and hope Open Source isn't an innocent victim in this game.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Yeah... it took me a little while to explain the whole concept of Open Source developement to my better half. She is notably adept with computers (and never flinched when she's had to use Linux for something), but the discussion opened up with, "Well - who owns Linux?" The concept that this OS isn't owned like MS owns Windoze is not something that everyone grasps right away.
My uncle mentioned to me that Linux won't do well because it doesn't have the marketing dollars that MS does. I didn't really have the time to explain the situation... The general public (and even those close to us geek types) just aren't well informed about these subjects and can be easily mislead.
Bottom line - one of those stock symbols *has* to be the company that makes linux, right? Oh - I get it - RedHat wrote linux and now this VA place sells linux computers? Right?
(sound of palm smacking forehead)
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
"Linux distros need to collude & combat black sheep"
Uhm...no. You do realize that that sounds exactly like something Micros~1 would do.
"If this IPO goes through and there's a fallout afterwards, this may suddenly undermine confidence in Linux, with Microsoft jumping on board and saying "SEE!? I TOLD YOU SO! IT WAS ALL HYPE!" and people who dont know any better, yet have their cash tied up in RedHat, will panic. "
This is likely anyway. Eventually, the economy is going to get to a point where it's not swelling like a zit on a 14 year old's face, and people who are playing the stock market are going to realize that they were smoking crack when they paid $300.00 for VA stock. (Don't get me wrong - I think they're both great companies, VA and Redhat, I just don't think they're worth the money that they're at. The stock price should have something to do with earnings in my book)
When the market corrects itself, redhat and VA are going to fall a bit. They're not going to fall like NetUSA did, but they will fall somewhat until their stock price is a bit more in line with what the company is. All fads wear off.
I agree with you that LinuxOne could catalyze that, (the linux aspect anyway, not the whole economy aspect) but I think it will happen anyway.
"This could spell trouble"
Yeah, well, do like most other people do and don't bother looking at linux or using it as a financial tool. Just use it as a kick ass OS. Again, I like redhat and VA, but I won't buy any of their stock anytime soon because I'm a programmer, and for some reason I just can't understand the brains of investors. The best bet (for me anyway) is to ignore linux IPO happenings when it comes to my own personal finances and enjoy linux as an OS.
"I think there needs to be an overall 'consortium'
contributed to by all distributions (...)"
That sounds like a good idea IF you can find somebody who will play the benevolent dictator role. I'm not really worried about this distro though since I think that if a lot of the allegations in the article are true, the company will probably have a total of about 10 users (most of which is the board of the company) a year from now.
I also don't like the thought of a board like that, because it would be very easy for it to fall into an exclusionary game of who gets to play with linux and who doesn't.
MDA
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
Does anyone know who owns www.linuxone.com? If you surt there you get the message:
:) )
This page is not here yet.
(with due credit to Transmeta in the source
Linuxone has www.linuxone.net, so who's got linux.com?
Another mysterious start-up? Another soon-to-be IPO?
Dana
LinuxOne OS will support these new technologies with its sophisticated proprietary device drivers....
;)
I think I now know who that "open source, copyrighted, non-distributal Natalie Portman" guy really is
mcrandello@my-deja.com
rschaar{at}pegasus.cc.ucf.edu if it's important.
If they're actually in violation of the GPL, they can lose *all* of their rights with respects to the GPL'ed software.
Copyrighted works by default give people NO license to copy, redistribute or modify the work. The GPL explicitely grants this right so long as the user works within the bounds of the license. Once they violate the license, they lose all redistribution rights to the software, which would kinda put them out of business instantly.
I know this probably sounds crazy, but put a few pointers in here...
1. This guy started NetUSA, and the company went public.
2. NetUSA is failing in public, it's lost huge amounts of money and the stock price is falling drastically.
3. HE probably owned a majority share of NetUSA, right? So he gained quite a bit of money from those stocks... now, legally he could neither sell them nor use that money for six months. However...
4. Now he starts a NEW company, and tries to send it public within six months, a ridiculously short time for such things. Which, at ANY price, will bring in a nice chunk of pocket change...
5. Gee, sounds a little fishy - you think he might be using one to fund the other? Illegal, yes, impossible? No.
He's already shown disregard for people (laws?) by hosting spammail junk. Considering the (lack of) history for this company, I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly what's happening. I hope he gets caught and jailed.
-Elthia
opinionated as ever
Michael Lerperger (LINUXONE-DOM)
Kutschkergasse 4/7
Vienna, Vienna A-1180
AUSTRIA
Domain Name: LINUXONE.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Lerperger, Michael (ML9820) mlerp@POBOX.COM
+43 (1) 402 8089 (FAX) +43 (1) 402 8089
Billing Contact:
Lerperger, Michael (ML9820) mlerp@POBOX.COM
+43 (1) 402 8089 (FAX) +43 (1) 402 8089
Record last updated on 14-Nov-1999.
Record created on 15-Nov-1998.
Database last updated on 23-Dec-1999 14:08:21 EST.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS3.MLERP.COM 208.231.31.21
NS4.MLERP.COM 208.231.31.22
Something like this though, the requirement to redistribute or otherwise make available the source code to your GPL'ed-base work, is the very heart of the GPL license.
Are you saying that if they were to violate this provision and not cooperate by coming into compliance, that they should be continued to be allowed to re-distribute the software? Perhaps I misspoke when I said they can lose "all" of their rights. At a minimum, I would expect that I could be able to revoke a person's right to redistribute my copyrighted work if they fail to uphold their end of my license. THIS has got to be supported by legal precedent in some fashion. The authors of this software have collectively said, "OK, we're letting people redistribute our copyrighted software so long as they comply with the terms of the GPL license."
So the only thing left would be the possibility that a portion of the GPL would be striked out as unreasonable. Could this source code requirement be classified as 'unreasonable'? I don't think it can, and I don't really see how this can't be supported by law or precedent. Unless you are referring to the fact that the GPL has never been tried in court...?
When I asked what the difference between RedHat and LinuxOne is, he said that there is little difference, and when I asked why I should buy LinuxOne instead of RedHat, he was unable to answer my question.
If you've got any furthur questions, their toll free sales line is: 1-877-Linux12
Sosumi. just kidding. DONT!
Call me cynical, but with this kind of background, any investor who loses his shirt on this IPO (if it busts) due to lack of research deserves every cent he flushes down the drain. There is so much hype these days, and no real understanding of what makes a company worth investing in. It's not like this article was revealing anything a competent investor couldn't have found, and the article is published where anyone can find it if they care to look. I have little sympathy for investors who lose money on pure speculation and hype.
To whit: I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
BTW, I thought the author was... uh, to say the least... generous. Pretty amusing article, if it weren't for the fact that we're dealing with a serious issue here.
Your Servant, B. Baggins
...hopefully, is that LinuxOne *will* crash and burn, and anyone stupid enough to use it as an anti-linux datum will be quickly pointed to the denunciations on Slashdot and LinuxWorld, from Bruce Perens, and from basically anyone else who knows what they're talking about.
I mean, honestly, LinuxOne's name has been mud from the very day their existance became known! If someone invests in them because "it's got Linux in the name!" but doesn't bother to do so much as a web search to research the company, they deserve what they get.
This is going to make life not so good for any other legitimate distro who want to fund their company through an IPO.
This LinuxOne IPO will probably not do very well, which will drag down the image of "Linux IPOs" in the mind of the underwriters.
If the underwriters have a low opinion of Linux companies because of this, the next distro who wants funding through an IPO will probably get a lower opening price, which means less money in the bank for them, which means less development and such which affects us all.
Hopefully this will set the standard for other companies who wish to do the same thing. If these guys do terribly, then others probably wont follow suit, which is good for the community, both the open source community and the financial community.
2 cents from an ex manager of wrestlers
CARS - I bought this one after I saw a car at all my friends' houses!
WIND - Everybody needs air! Get yours now!!
AIR - I wasn't sure if WIND had a monopoly or not, so I bought some of this too!
SUN - How gloomy the world would be without the Sun!
LIFE - This one is a SURE THING if there ever was one!!
For CmdrTaco to essentially decry this company as a scam is entirely inappropriate. He, and this website, are owned by a close competitor, so comments like these not only have no objectivity, but should be viewed as highly suspicious and manipulative.
When it comes down to it, there really are only slight differences between the behavior of LinuxOne and that of VA systems, RedHat, and the others. None of them have, or will have, profits to justify their market valuations, and all are based on essentially the same platform: Making Money from Linux.
So what is so different about this company? That they don't have the alliance with a bunch of hip linux hackers, or the requisite early marketing hype. They certainly have comparable profits.
The Linux as IPO fantasy is playing out again and again, just as e-commerce did. But, as with e-commerce, the ones who make real profits will be few and far between.
But to hear scathing remarks posing as journalism about a competitor in their industry makes my stomach churn. I certainly didn't hear this kind of criticism regarding VA or the others. You've already cashed in.
Moderators: While I do expect this view to be unpopular, please evaluate its merits for discussion (and rational defense) before emotionally slamming it as 'flamebait'.
The law with respects to software makes little distinction. The only thing software has over text is that the owner of a copy may make another copy for archival purposes.
So, given that software is treated basically the same, here's what the law has to say about derivative works, among other things (title 17, chapter 1, 103b):Thus, he still owns the copyright on his work, but he cannot redistribute the whole work (the program) unless he licenses his own code under the GPL.
If he refuses to acknowledge or abide by the GPL, he has *no* rights to redistribute the rest of the work at all, as it remains copyrighted. He can certainly release his own code, under his own license, but he can't do so as part of the program.
No offense to you, but I'd really rather hear a professional legal opinion about all of this if there really is something contestable about the GPL, and not some rantings about the evil FSF with some occasional legal jargon from an anonymous poster.
MEEPT!!!!!
MEEPT!!!!! is overjoyed to see that his earlier advice given to graduating students has been expanded upon by the loveable LinuxOne. MEEPT!!!!! advised students to adopt a catchy series of initials, such as ESR or RMS, then wait for free shares of IPO-madness to start rolling in. MEEPT!!!!! is delighted to see that LinuxOne has expanded this concept, and will be offering their very own IPO!
MEEPT!!!!! strongly encourages slapdashers to support LinuxOne's product when it is made available. Wun C. Chiou Sr., Ph.D. - the esteemed CEO of LinuxOne - has personally assured MEEPT!!!!! that LinuxOne will make available the finest Linux Distribution in the world: Redhat. He encourages investors to get in on the ground floor of LinuxOne's IPO, because "hey, you all gave mad cash to Redhat. We sell the same thing, right down to the directory names and box logo! You should give us money too!"
MEEPT!!!!!
No wonder they go nonlinear. The system is stacked against them from the start.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
LinuxOne is clearly a Situationist-inspired art project, like eToy. It's a hoax created by a Dutch and Japanese multimedia artists' collective. It has to be.
If you look at it that way, it's a good practical joke.
Ignorance must be bliss huh.
Show me a sign of inteligence other then what you learned in grammar police school.
No. He can't. It's not been defended in the first place, and is a common name.
The main reason for Linux holding the trademark Linux is to prevent others from trademarking it.
IN other words, anyone can use the name linux, but nobody can stop someone else from using it.
There are also dozens of trademarks with the name Linux in them.
Wouldn't matter.
Under actual copyright law a derivitive work
falls under the copyright of THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR.
So...if I modify the Linux kernel...LINUS holds
the copyright on my changes. (The licence gives
me the right to modify and redistribute...but my
modification is not copyright by me unless
the original work was only truly minor to the
end product)
Feel free to look up the US Copyright office
web page and look it up. ALL derivitive works
fall under the original works copyright.
(there ARE exceptions...parody being the only
one I can think of)
If the GPL is wholly invalid...then there is no
right to copy and distribute at all.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Common name? No. You mean generic. Currently, it would not pass the test of being a generic name, although maybe Unix would.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
That's not a bad idea!
If everyone who has a spare couple of $hundred (more is better of course) did this, it would send a pretty good message, too.
You should put a link to this up on a couple stock boards, too.. that would scare the DayTraders off.
probably means it took him longer to get than normal.
I think that /. readers are getting their panties in a bunch needlessly over this. Most people who buy IPOs are not THAT stupid. Most IPOs need a top tier underwriter to do at all well. RedHat had Goldman Sachs, the toppest of the top. VA Linux and Andover had decent underwriters.
LinuxOne is trying to fly on their own, which to any investor who knows anything is an immediate red light and siren warning.
There are plenty of scam artists trying to attach their name to whatever is hot at the moment - from Black Light Power to LinuxOne. LinuxOne isn't the first company to try a fast one like this, nor are they the last. Will investors pay any attention to LinuxOne? Not any more than they will to the thousands of con artists that have tried to take advantage of other stock fads.
What is the most likely consequence of the LinuxOne IPO? A securities fraud case, and jail time for those involved.
Linux is not going to get a black eye over this.
"LinuxOneTM, Inc., provides world-class UNIX (Linux) software for server,workstation, and home environments." So in addition to everything else, Linuxone is ignoring the Opengroup's trademark for Unix(TM). BTY the rest of the page reads like an ad for the IPO.
Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est
Here's the latest I've found:
Hmm, it's not RedHat anymore (it was RedHat 6.0 in early Nov.), but that sure as hell doesn't look like a LinuxOne distro either. I also seriously worry about how the Linux name could be affected by such shoddiness. They apparently haven't even locked the box down. Bad news.They also claim to have downloadable source at 140.174.127.97, but I've had no luck getting in, with the message:
Hmm. Wonder if they have max users set to something like 1 or 2 to give the appearance that their server is busy. Mainly, I wanted to see for myself how "different" their distro was. So far, no luck and I'm not optimistic.Hopefully, there is enough noise in the community to keep any innocent users from getting snakebitten by what, to us, are obviously useless and unneccessary products (LinuxMac on the top of the list).
--Humpty Dumpty was pushed!