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Second "Bonus" Interview: Jon "maddog" Hall
As head of Linux International, Jon Hall is one of the highest-profile people in the Linux community. He's also one of the nicest. He's wanted to do this interview for a long time, and we've wanted to have him as a guest for just as long. Finally we got the schedules to match. Yay! Suggested interview theme: "The next 100 years of Linux," but what you actually ask is up to you. One note to clear up a name misunderstanding that has been causing problems for Jon "maddog" Hall lately: Please do not confuse him with VA Linux Vice Presedent (and recent "on paper" mega-millionaire) John T. Hall. (Note the spelling difference!) They are not, repeat not, the same person! Anyway, usual interview rules - with one difference: we're going to post Jon's answers Saturday instead of Friday. Who could be better (and what topic could be better) to kick off the New Year?
How exactly does Linux International work? What sort of services do they provide to the Linux community? What are you planning to do in the future? Do you think that if Linux becomes a truly major player, that the scope, membership, or or mission of LI will change as a resuly?
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auntfloyd
There have been lots of articles on what is the future of the current Linux projects... What do you see as the NEW, non-current directions that Linux will embark on in the near future/next century?
Do you think GNU/HURD might one day take over Linux's place? It certainly has a more modern design, although it is currently still in the works. Do you think it's a plausible alternative to Linux when it is ready for general consumption?
Or does Linux have a drive in the Open Source community that HURD doesn't? Linux seems to have generated a lot of enthusiasm, fandom, (and zealotry?). Could it be this drive that made Linux so successful and the lack thereof make HURD take such a long time to get developed?
(Disclaimer: I am NOT trying to start a flamewar between Linux and HURD supporters.)
mikre he sophia he tou Mikrosophou.
Is it inevitable that Linux one day become obselete and cosequently be superceded by the Next Great OS? The obvious answer to this question is yes: all things must eventually come to an end and computing is not a field where any one technique can retain supremacy in the face of continual technical improvement. The equally obvious reply is that the methodology process used in Linux and other open-source operating systems such as *BSD and Hurd represent a new paradigm in software developement that self-perpetuates itself and adapts to new advances by incorporating them into its own infrastructure while creating new innovation. What view do you subscribe to?
Could you explain your rational for moving from the Tru64 UNIX group at Compaq to VA Linux? Was it a financial decision? Do you like Linux technology better? Was it ideological (Open Source)? Do you just like the location better? Was it just for a change? Etc.
What ever happened to get the nick name "maddog"?
Must have a pretty interesting story behind that, eh?
Could you describe your work life at VA Linux.
What are your pet projects?
How many hours each day do spend at work?
Do you work from home?
What other noteworthies do you interact with on a daily basis?
What's your work space like? (Number of Linux computers, number of computers without a case, number of Windows machines (and why), number of monitors, etc).
...are being touted as the next great evolution of the internet and computing in general. As ASPs are becoming more sophisticated, both home and business boxen will supposedly become little more than an embedded web client. It seems mod_perl on Linux is perfect for the server and Mozilla on Linux will be perfect as the client. If this is in the near future how can/should Linux improve its utilities for this segment of the internet?
There's a spider on your shoulder.
Linux, and in general the Open Source development model, has been accused in the past of "chasing the taillights" -- of always catching up to features that other commercial programs have, because they are results of vision rather than of a creeping evolution.
Myself, I think there may be something in this view, when I look e.g. at the emerging UI input methods like voice recognition and pen input/handwriting recognition on the client side, and various goodies on the server side.
Do you agree with this? If so, is Linux condemned to always be a few steps behind of the current state of the art of OS design, at least as far as features go?
If not, what examples of vision and features unique to Linux would you provide as examples?
In certain subtle, but certaintly quantifable ways, C's use as a language for large-scale non-systems programming applications had already begun to wane with the advent of a) a standard for C++ that most compilers reasonably complied with and b) improvement in computer speed such that squeezing that last cycle out of a loop isn't that neccesary for most applications. While there are some exceptions, most GUI developement widget sets/packages are intrinsically object-oriented, and as such, IMHO, the use of C for them would, in most cases, be detremental to coding clarity and efficiency. C is a great language, but it lacks even the lamentably week type checking of C++, not to say more strongly typed languages.
How can Linux be brought into the mainstream when it's still not as easy to install as Windows? This may seem like a moot point to the readers of Slashdot, but at the same time, Slashdot is hardly a representative cross-section of (an) America (lacking the tech know-how / desire to work with a complex OS)?
Let's say Microsoft opens its source code... how is Linux (in general) affected?
One of the possible settlement arrangements that could be made between US and MS would include the release of the Windows/Office source code under a modified license. In that event, would porting the Office applications to Linux be a net positive or a net negative for the future of Linux as an independent OS?
I drink to make other people more interesting
As Linux continues to gain momentum over the next decade or so, it seems plain that OS vendors will have to contend with it. What strategies do you think Microsoft, the various UNIX vendors, etc. will use to compete?
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Celebrate the finer things in life
So how goes it between you and Alan Cox? Do you get along, do you talk as often as with Linus? Most of all when you visit England do you 2 go out into the sun and dance around ?
For those who don't get it the saying goes "Mad Dogs and Englishmen dance in the midday sun". Apparently there isn't soposed to be much difference between them.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
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"You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."
What will it mean for the future of Linux as the number of users who have an interest in putting something in that /contrib directory become outnumbered, watered down? Do the majority of Linux users and proponents still feel a need and/or obligation to work towards making Linux the OS (as opposed to the kernel ~ GNU/Linux if you must) better than it is currently? Sentiments coming from SGI (and elseware) have seemed to imply that Linux has completely succeeded in making a useable UNIX system, but without having solved any problems of its own. Where will Linux be when an insignificant number of users make up the code-base while virtually the entire user-base is made up of the those that don't make up the code-base? Hasn't Linux been successful because its users have called "theirs"? I really doubt that the same progress can be made when its is called Linus's, RedHat's, or Jon Hall's OS, kernel, community, movement, etc. Its ours!
regarding the recent community linux certification efforts etc, can we expect to see LI take a part in this ? Are we going to get free community certification for Linux ? Especially since all PHB's now seem to want certification...
As I mentioned in a recent article thread, the Linux kernel is braving new waters in several areas which UNIX has traditionally shunned in the kernel (graphics support, http server, game support for network management, etc). These features raise the eyebrows of many people, but is this the way you see operating system design moving in the future? Are we so bound by the dreaded user-mode context switch that we have to plow every service as deep into the kernel as it will go?
Mind you, I'm all for the khttpd idea as a single example, but it seems like the beginning of a trend that will end up making the original Linux kernel look like a wristwatch driver, and leave a lot of low-end users in a bind....
Thoughts?
What does it take to get you to speak somewhere? I know you've spoken for the local Compaq User's Group here in Philly (missed it. Argh!!!), so it can't be impossible or anything.
I don't understand how Linux can complete in the upper end server market, especially against competitors like Microsoft and Sun.
Microsoft is about to release Windows 2000 datacenter which will allow up to 64gig of ram and 32 processors. How can any one company afford that kind of equipment for the development of Linux?
Do you have any plans to recruit companies like Compaq and Dell so that they are major players in the development efforts of Linux? It seems to me that it would be benificial to have companies like this helping to direct the future development of Linux in terms of large scale applications. I realize that these companies are developing drivers and the such, but that isn't really what I'm talking about..
Apache running on Linux on a machine with 32 processors and 64gig of ram, able to out perform anything MS can throw at it. That is what I'm talking about...
Man, this is impossible. I just got everyone calmed down about a Y2K problem, and now some freak starts a new hoax.
They must not have sold all their snake oil kits yet. I guess they figure 1000 years will be enough to pawn off their surplus inventory.
:)
-BrentDo you think it's wise having Linux ported for pretty much every architecture ever made? It may be fun and a source of pride to have an OS that can run everything, but is it really sensible to spend time and resources porting Linux to lets say S/390, when we pretty much know for sure that OS/390 will run that hardware better?
Do you see any Linux distro maker ever producing as coherent, integrated, and well-tested Linux operating system release as we've traditionally seen from vendors like Sun or DEC, or, in the freeware world, from the OpenBSD etc distributions? Won't the current thrown-togetherness of all the commerical Linuxes hurt them in the commercial sector? Will these huge IPOs provide funding to create a better distro?
Where would you like to see Linux in a level playing field...ie, one where a user can easily choose between, say BeOS, *BSD, Linux, Windows 2000/98++ on their new systems.
Or simply, in a level playing field, what niche do you see Linux occupying?
ttyl
Farrell
...Linux User/Evangelist since kernel v0.12
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
Hi, Jon.
:-)
I've always wondered when, where, and why you first became involved in the Linux community. When I started using it (around 1996), you were already "well known." How did you get involved? Is it related to your nice nickname? What is your Linux story
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Is Linux's popularity a threat to other open OS projects? Even now, it seems all other free (and even non-free, I guess) unices will want to have binary compatibility with Linux. And as more and more users just use binary software distributions, there will probably soon be no reason for anybody to actually create BSD, Hurd or whatnot binaries. Except that Hurd doesn't run Linux binaries at the moment... right :)
Linux has been made to run on top of a microkernel and one of Hurd's frequently asked questions seems to be if Hurd could be run using Linux as microkernel. The answer doesn't actually say it couldn't.
What about the EROS operating system? I read once about it in Slashdot and on holidays I've spent some time reading its documentation. Seems very interesting, the whole capability system concept, no traditional filesystems, persistence and all. Yeah, they seem to be designing a Linux environment hosted under Eros or something like that.
But what if Linux people just somehow weave the capability model and persistence into the Linux kernel? What will that do to EROS? Is Linux so popular, that people would blindly use it also for tasks for which it doesn't suite at all?
As a GPL-protected project, Linux can never become a new Windows, but could it become a threat to natural diversity in the open source world?
NOSPAM@REMOVETHIS.NO.SPAM - you'll find the real address somewhere
Certainly, in the next 100 years we will see the departure of Linus as head honcho. Alan will probably step down around the same time. I mean you can only do so much for so long. Do you think that Linux has a suitable leadership path concerning the kernel? If not, how might you solve the inheritance problem?
damon
Eric
How about the software no one wants to write?
By this, I mean the software that most programmers would consider "boring", yet is truly essential to the further growth of Linux as a desktop and server OS. It's great that we have so many window managers, office suites, browsers, etc. both existing and coming down the pike, but what about the other stuff that's just not as exciting? The stuff you really have to pay people to write? Maybe third party vendors with paid employees are the answer, but will all of those companies want to make their software truly Open Source?
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"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds." - Albert Einstein
Co-founder and designer at Music Nearby: http://musicnearby.com
I have had the chance to meet you at several LinuxWorldExpo's and USENIX etc.. At each of these events, you were always present at the parties with a large glass of beer.
My question:
What is your favorite beer? and why?
--Mike
I stumbled across an interesting story about a
recent adventure you had in India. (Sorry I lost the link - it had something to do with a fudster who didn't like logging onto his home machine.)
Based on your experiences in India and other parts of the non-West, what do you think needs to be stressed, advocacy-wise to make Linux more acceptable outside America and Europe ?
With the incarnation of Corel Linux and others like Mandrake (seemingly a dumbed down version of RedHat) where do you see the Linux community going in terms of maintaining a true "hacker" ethic, while at the same time becoming increasingly inclusive to a not-so-technical user base? Do you think we're approaching a trend, much like DOS and Win3.1, where the user base becomes too dependant on ease of use? How is the linux community going to cope with an influx of ex windows users who don't know much about the actual workings of a *nix environment?
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -David Hume
Do you miss Digital Equipment Corporation? And how do you think DEC would be reacting to Linux and open source, were they still around?
As the Executive Director of Linux International, and a member of the Board of Directors of USENIX, what sort of overlap do you see between the two communities, and what sort of overlap would you like to see?
I.e. the algorithm they used looks something like this:
Really, really short sited.-- Slashdot sucks.
I doubt he knows much about life at VA Linux...
I might say, "Learn to check your facts!"
From maddog's signature:
Director of Linux Evangelism
VA Linux Systems
1382 Bordeaux Ave.
Sunnyvale, CA 94089
maddog@valinux.com
In fact, most of the email he sends to GNHLUG as of late comes from his VA Linux address.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
Jon "Maddog" Hall != John T. Hall.
The fact that (maddog != JohnTHall) does not mean that (maddog.employer != VALinux). Jon Hall is "Director of Linux Evangelism" at VA Linux Systems; you can email him there at maddog@valinux.com.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.