We're talking about Canada. I've never heard of a bar which showed diligence in checking ID being busted or successfully sued for serving an underage drinker.
Where the hell do you get this number? Time machine? DDT has not been banned for vector control. Thousands of tons a year is still used to kill mosquito's and the fact that that is all it is used for is much more effective. Mosquito's and other insects get resistant to DDT pretty quick when it is used every where and the death toll from malaria would be much higher if DDT was not an effective control. The plan is to ban it once something else that is as good is developed.
Bad example. The citizens weren't armed, they broke into an armoury and armed themselves with government arms. Something that in theory could as easily happen in England, especially right after the war.
Put someone in a wheel chair, sure the government (here in Canada) will pay the hospital bills. Still the auto insurance pays for a nice wheel chair. Time while not working, people to come in and help, perhaps retraining and I'm sure quite a bit more. At least with enough coverage.
What do you mean by 15/30/5, thousands of dollars? Even your 100/300/100 seems very low in thousands. Here in BC where we do have compulsive government insurance the minimum last time I checked (about 25 years ago) was $100,000 and it was cheap to upgrade that to a million. Put someone into a wheelchair and even a million doesn't go far, even with socialized medical.
Here in BC we also have compulsive insurance with the Government selling it. Basically you have to buy basic insurance from the government insurance corp, ICBC and can buy extra insurance from private companies or ICBC. The price of insurance seems good compared to other areas that are similar, is fairly stable, usually going up at or slower then inflation, even occasionally sending out rebate cheques when their profits were too large. They are non-discriminatory except against new drivers and most important have got rid of a lot of litigation where 2 insurance companies fight it out in court to make the other one pay.
My understanding is that these $15 plans are no longer available. If you already have one great, it's just none of the service providers offer them now. I haven't personally researched this and the people I got this from might be wrong though.
Yea, but it is not like you can currently buy unlimited data at $15 in Canada. You can thank Apple for pushing all our providers to offer some good deals to lock you in. Telus now offers unlimited for $106.95
If I have a tree on my property and it falls in your yard, I have to pay for disposal.
A more proper analogy would be: A man buys a tree from you, plants it in his yard, cuts it down, and then charges you to clean it up.
A real world example I witnessed the other week. Someone bought a tree (from a reputable nursery) that was labeled as a dwarf, grows a maximum of 20 feet. This tree was 50+ feet high and growing fast and they had to pay $300 to get it cut down. They were really pissed as they didn't know the tree would grow so big and they were going on about how the nursery should pay to get it cut down. It is the same with a lot of stuff. The consumer pays for it with out realizing the hidden costs which often the business lies about, or at least omits mentioning. I really think that one of the governments jobs is to force business to up front about hidden costs and not lie. Most consumers do not have the time to do detailed research and sometimes the detailed research is close to impossible to do as in the case of this tree (dwarf trees usually depend on the rootstock and the only way to tell without knowing the parentage is to grow it)
We actually have the same system as the UK, we're just lucky enough to currently have 4 major parties getting seats in parliament leading to minority governments. Still locally it is usually only 2 viable candidates. I agree with you about the choices coming down to choose your scum. Which leads to low voter turnout. I usually end up protest voting for the joke party or recently the marijuana party
The only reason that the smaller parties currently have a voice is due to there being a minority government. In other words all the opposing parties can vote no confidence in the government and bring it down, usually forcing an election though in theory the opposition parties could get together and form a government. Up until recently minority governments were rare and with a majority government the party in control can do whatever they want. Personally I really like the current situation of multiple parties and a minority government as it introduces some checks and balances to the system.
We fought the bloodiest war in our history (measured in terms of killing the largest percentage of our people) ending it.
Still there is debate amongst historians what the prime reason for the civil war was with some considering it was a power grab by the federalist government. Also the fact that it took so many lives to follow the principals put forth in your constitution, all men being equal thing.
Interesting that you qualify that statement with "western"; slavery was officially abolished in China in 1910, but still exists in some regions. It's also quite widespread in Africa.
The country that practiced segregation in living memory
Unlike, say, South Africa, or India (where to this day the Dalits (aka "Untouchables") are segregated:
Dalits are not allowed to drink from the same wells, attend the same temples, wear shoes in the presence of an upper caste, or drink from the same cups in tea stalls
Then there's the religious segregation in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Iran, Saudi Arabia (non-Muslims are forbidden to enter Mecca or Medina). I could go on, but I won't bother.
I qualified my statement with Western because it is the western nations that believe in liberty. It is easy to claim that you're better then some 3rd world country with no traditions of freedom.
Call it "propaganda" if you want, but notice which direction the people illegally crossing our borders are going. Look at how the communist East Germany had to put up a wall with border guards under orders to shoot anyone trying to flee to the West (where US, UK, and French authorities permitted a goverment that respected the liberty of the people). If the reality of the liberty in Western Civilization in general, and in the US in particular, were that much worse than the "propaganda", there would be people going the other direction, and even some who came this way going back.
Around here the people are usually going the other way. Lots of refugees in my life time who didn't want to go out and kill people for not much reason. They'd still be coming here but our current government has decided to send them back. We also get people claiming refugee status as the punishments in the States include anal rape. We get people who want to self-medicate themselves which is a criminal offence down there. Our health care system has been stressed by Americans coming up here and fraudulently getting medical care. Central Americans that sneak through your country to get here. And a large movement of illegal substances back and forth.
Of course we aren't perfect; no government is. But we are exceptional in the founding principles to which we aspire. Other people have taken notice of the practical value of those principles, and choose to emulate them.
The principles were evolving at that time. The French were going through a similar thing and England had introduced its Bill of Rights in 1689. You guys did things like take the right to bear arms and remove the exception for Catholics and add the traditional militia. Even your government setup was a reflection of the parliamentary system. You made a lot of improvements and perhaps the best was codifying the supreme law in such a matter that it couldn't be easily changed. Still you would get more respect if you followed your own constitution. As an example the first amendment says that congress shall make no laws limiting speech yet you have child porn laws. Seems that the correct thing to do would be to amend the constitution to allow limiting free speech when it leads to harm of children. Pretty sure that passing a no child porn amendment would be fairly easy depending on the wording.
Liberty, the last western country to outlaw slavery. The country that practiced segregation in living memory. The country with the largest portion of it's people in jail. Actually America represents very successful propaganda.
Canada, which is pretty close to the States culturally, with the same foods, restaurants etc, is healthier because the government has motivation to push people to be healthy. My sons school long ago got rid of all the junk food in vending machines, replaced with fairly healthy stuff. He also gets graded on the amount of physical exercise that he does including after school. If you want to quit smoking, the governments got lots of programs to help you, and there is a lot of encouragement to quit. Guns are harder to get so criminals don't have the same tendency to shoot first in case they might get shot. Even traffic laws might be enforced for safety instead of for revenue. Don't know why else our traffic deaths are much lower. In short, with national health care the governments got lots of motivation to encourage a healthy population
And yet Canadians don't pay much more taxes then Americans, especially if you subtract the sin taxes. We also are not borrowing like crazy. What would the American's tax rate be if they balanced their budget?
Something like this happened locally here in BC. Insane person managed to hang himself in an overcrowded hospital (new one was just about to open, the town is growing fast). Family demanded a detailed coroners inquest and got it including lots of good recommendations to prevent similar occurrences in the future. Family was pleased with the coroners report and I didn't see any mention of suing.
That's my problem, I don't watch enough TV. At that since the American stations have basically left the air here I don't watch any American television. Anyways thanks for setting me straight on the state of our health care.
In Canada you would of been out $50 for the ambulance. You'd also might have had to wait till morning to get your fibula set depending on the size of the hospital and probably would of been sent home that evening. One of the big efficiencies in public insurance is only dealing with one insurer. In private land the various insurers seem to spend all their efforts trying to get the other insurer to pay. Often requiring judges to rule who was at fault. This creates a lot of paper work which leads to bureaucracy that makes governments look efficient. I forget the actual figures though I'm sure Google knows them, it seems Canada's health system only spends a few percent on bureaucracy whereas the American system sees close to half spent on bureaucrats.
And where do the hell do Canadians or Kiwis or British get off telling us how to run our own country?
Fuck, all you Americans do is run around telling everyone how to run their countries. Your copyright isn't strict enough, someone might watch a DVD they bought on Linux. Your drug laws aren't strict enough. We're going to ignore the courts that we agreed to follow in that treaty because we're bigger. You guys are so hypocritical and so indoctrinated that you don't see your own flaws.
You agree with Hatch that Canada is in the same league as Russia and China about copyright infringement?
He didn't say that, I didn't say that: You're seeing words in your head that aren't there. Canadia is on the same list because Congress feels their laws and enforcement do not protect America's property interests well enough. While it's far from the greatest issue facing our nation, we'd totally prefer it if every nation honored the spirit of the various copyright-protection treaties.
Don't worry, we'd prefer if you kept your treaties as well. Perhaps if your country acted with honour you'd get more respect. One example which has actually resulted in real lost jobs around here and been bad for the local economy is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwood_lumber_dispute.
Only thing is there is no DMCA
One thing I appreciated in Hatch's little speech was his admission that the DMCA isn't perfect, which is a pretty big stretch for him (he was a major supporter of the bill). I'm assuming you're trying to get me to make a DMCA-supporting statement, which I won't: It's a bad law in too many ways.
Did you actually read his speech? I quote
When we passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act in 1998, one of my goals was to address the problems caused when copyrighted works are disseminated through the Internet and other electronic transmissions without the authority of the copyright owner.
By establishing clear rules of the road, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act served as the catalyst that has allowed electronic commerce to flourish. I believe the DMCA, while not perfect, has nonetheless played a key role in moving our nationâ(TM)s copyright law into the digital age.
which to me and what I know of the Senator, sounds like he wishes the law was more encompassing. Personally I bought a new DVD yesterday and to watch it on my computer would be illegal if I was in the States.
Canada's issue isn't a lack of DMCA, but generally looser laws which are very hard to enforce civilly even with legitimate claims. Enforcement of a claim from outside the country is just a whisker shy of impossible.
Well we do consider the right to privacy to be important and also believe in justice rather then whoever has the money can sue and win without having any merits in the case. Still if you want to talk about loose laws, here the music industry demanded changes to the law. Mainly that they get paid every time I buy a CD to back up something or a tape to video tape my son growing up. In trade for this money grab was the recognition that we have a right to make personal copies of music. Meanwhile your country stands alone as encouraging commercial copyright infringement as long as you call it a joke or satire. And when you satirize some Canadian content does your justice system punish the commercial infringers? At least here the cops do swoop down pretty quick on commercial infringement. Which is good as someone paying money for pirated material would also probably pay for original material.
You agree with Hatch that Canada is in the same league as Russia and China about copyright infringement? Canada is not too different from the States and probably has about the same amount of copyright infringement. No one sells CDs or DVDs on the street corner unless they recorded it themselves with their own IP and I've only seen that twice. Downloading is probably equal to the rest of the western world. Only thing is there is no DMCA so if I purchase a DVD I can break the encryption and play it on my non-windows computer legally. Also IP based industry is perhaps even more important in Canada as so many American companies come up here to film movies.
Slashdot Mirror
We're talking about Canada. I've never heard of a bar which showed diligence in checking ID being busted or successfully sued for serving an underage drinker.
Where the hell do you get this number? Time machine? DDT has not been banned for vector control. Thousands of tons a year is still used to kill mosquito's and the fact that that is all it is used for is much more effective. Mosquito's and other insects get resistant to DDT pretty quick when it is used every where and the death toll from malaria would be much higher if DDT was not an effective control.
The plan is to ban it once something else that is as good is developed.
Bad example. The citizens weren't armed, they broke into an armoury and armed themselves with government arms. Something that in theory could as easily happen in England, especially right after the war.
Put someone in a wheel chair, sure the government (here in Canada) will pay the hospital bills. Still the auto insurance pays for a nice wheel chair. Time while not working, people to come in and help, perhaps retraining and I'm sure quite a bit more. At least with enough coverage.
What do you mean by 15/30/5, thousands of dollars? Even your 100/300/100 seems very low in thousands.
Here in BC where we do have compulsive government insurance the minimum last time I checked (about 25 years ago) was $100,000 and it was cheap to upgrade that to a million. Put someone into a wheelchair and even a million doesn't go far, even with socialized medical.
Here in BC we also have compulsive insurance with the Government selling it. Basically you have to buy basic insurance from the government insurance corp, ICBC and can buy extra insurance from private companies or ICBC.
The price of insurance seems good compared to other areas that are similar, is fairly stable, usually going up at or slower then inflation, even occasionally sending out rebate cheques when their profits were too large. They are non-discriminatory except against new drivers and most important have got rid of a lot of litigation where 2 insurance companies fight it out in court to make the other one pay.
Of course you can put GST on a tax. Every time we buy gas we pay a bunch of taxes then we pay GST on those taxes.
Business, especially big business will take away your rights really quick. Sometimes like in this case in the name of property rights.
My understanding is that these $15 plans are no longer available. If you already have one great, it's just none of the service providers offer them now.
I haven't personally researched this and the people I got this from might be wrong though.
Yea, but it is not like you can currently buy unlimited data at $15 in Canada. You can thank Apple for pushing all our providers to offer some good deals to lock you in.
Telus now offers unlimited for $106.95
If I have a tree on my property and it falls in your yard, I have to pay for disposal.
A more proper analogy would be: A man buys a tree from you, plants it in his yard, cuts it down, and then charges you to clean it up.
A real world example I witnessed the other week. Someone bought a tree (from a reputable nursery) that was labeled as a dwarf, grows a maximum of 20 feet.
This tree was 50+ feet high and growing fast and they had to pay $300 to get it cut down. They were really pissed as they didn't know the tree would grow so big and they were going on about how the nursery should pay to get it cut down.
It is the same with a lot of stuff. The consumer pays for it with out realizing the hidden costs which often the business lies about, or at least omits mentioning. I really think that one of the governments jobs is to force business to up front about hidden costs and not lie.
Most consumers do not have the time to do detailed research and sometimes the detailed research is close to impossible to do as in the case of this tree (dwarf trees usually depend on the rootstock and the only way to tell without knowing the parentage is to grow it)
We actually have the same system as the UK, we're just lucky enough to currently have 4 major parties getting seats in parliament leading to minority governments. Still locally it is usually only 2 viable candidates.
I agree with you about the choices coming down to choose your scum. Which leads to low voter turnout.
I usually end up protest voting for the joke party or recently the marijuana party
The only reason that the smaller parties currently have a voice is due to there being a minority government. In other words all the opposing parties can vote no confidence in the government and bring it down, usually forcing an election though in theory the opposition parties could get together and form a government.
Up until recently minority governments were rare and with a majority government the party in control can do whatever they want.
Personally I really like the current situation of multiple parties and a minority government as it introduces some checks and balances to the system.
We fought the bloodiest war in our history (measured in terms of killing the largest percentage of our people) ending it.
Still there is debate amongst historians what the prime reason for the civil war was with some considering it was a power grab by the federalist government.
Also the fact that it took so many lives to follow the principals put forth in your constitution, all men being equal thing.
Interesting that you qualify that statement with "western"; slavery was officially abolished in China in 1910, but still exists in some regions. It's also quite widespread in Africa.
Unlike, say, South Africa, or India (where to this day the Dalits (aka "Untouchables") are segregated:
Then there's the religious segregation in Bosnia-Herzegovina, Iran, Saudi Arabia (non-Muslims are forbidden to enter Mecca or Medina). I could go on, but I won't bother.
I qualified my statement with Western because it is the western nations that believe in liberty. It is easy to claim that you're better then some 3rd world country with no traditions of freedom.
Call it "propaganda" if you want, but notice which direction the people illegally crossing our borders are going. Look at how the communist East Germany had to put up a wall with border guards under orders to shoot anyone trying to flee to the West (where US, UK, and French authorities permitted a goverment that respected the liberty of the people). If the reality of the liberty in Western Civilization in general, and in the US in particular, were that much worse than the "propaganda", there would be people going the other direction, and even some who came this way going back.
Around here the people are usually going the other way. Lots of refugees in my life time who didn't want to go out and kill people for not much reason. They'd still be coming here but our current government has decided to send them back.
We also get people claiming refugee status as the punishments in the States include anal rape.
We get people who want to self-medicate themselves which is a criminal offence down there.
Our health care system has been stressed by Americans coming up here and fraudulently getting medical care.
Central Americans that sneak through your country to get here.
And a large movement of illegal substances back and forth.
Of course we aren't perfect; no government is. But we are exceptional in the founding principles to which we aspire. Other people have taken notice of the practical value of those principles, and choose to emulate them.
The principles were evolving at that time. The French were going through a similar thing and England had introduced its Bill of Rights in 1689. You guys did things like take the right to bear arms and remove the exception for Catholics and add the traditional militia.
Even your government setup was a reflection of the parliamentary system.
You made a lot of improvements and perhaps the best was codifying the supreme law in such a matter that it couldn't be easily changed.
Still you would get more respect if you followed your own constitution. As an example the first amendment says that congress shall make no laws limiting speech yet you have child porn laws. Seems that the correct thing to do would be to amend the constitution to allow limiting free speech when it leads to harm of children. Pretty sure that passing a no child porn amendment would be fairly easy depending on the wording.
Liberty, the last western country to outlaw slavery. The country that practiced segregation in living memory. The country with the largest portion of it's people in jail.
Actually America represents very successful propaganda.
Canada, which is pretty close to the States culturally, with the same foods, restaurants etc, is healthier because the government has motivation to push people to be healthy.
My sons school long ago got rid of all the junk food in vending machines, replaced with fairly healthy stuff. He also gets graded on the amount of physical exercise that he does including after school.
If you want to quit smoking, the governments got lots of programs to help you, and there is a lot of encouragement to quit.
Guns are harder to get so criminals don't have the same tendency to shoot first in case they might get shot.
Even traffic laws might be enforced for safety instead of for revenue. Don't know why else our traffic deaths are much lower.
In short, with national health care the governments got lots of motivation to encourage a healthy population
And yet Canadians don't pay much more taxes then Americans, especially if you subtract the sin taxes. We also are not borrowing like crazy. What would the American's tax rate be if they balanced their budget?
Something like this happened locally here in BC. Insane person managed to hang himself in an overcrowded hospital (new one was just about to open, the town is growing fast).
Family demanded a detailed coroners inquest and got it including lots of good recommendations to prevent similar occurrences in the future. Family was pleased with the coroners report and I didn't see any mention of suing.
That's my problem, I don't watch enough TV. At that since the American stations have basically left the air here I don't watch any American television.
Anyways thanks for setting me straight on the state of our health care.
In Canada you would of been out $50 for the ambulance. You'd also might have had to wait till morning to get your fibula set depending on the size of the hospital and probably would of been sent home that evening.
One of the big efficiencies in public insurance is only dealing with one insurer. In private land the various insurers seem to spend all their efforts trying to get the other insurer to pay. Often requiring judges to rule who was at fault. This creates a lot of paper work which leads to bureaucracy that makes governments look efficient.
I forget the actual figures though I'm sure Google knows them, it seems Canada's health system only spends a few percent on bureaucracy whereas the American system sees close to half spent on bureaucrats.
And where do the hell do Canadians or Kiwis or British get off telling us how to run our own country?
Fuck, all you Americans do is run around telling everyone how to run their countries. Your copyright isn't strict enough, someone might watch a DVD they bought on Linux. Your drug laws aren't strict enough. We're going to ignore the courts that we agreed to follow in that treaty because we're bigger.
You guys are so hypocritical and so indoctrinated that you don't see your own flaws.
You agree with Hatch that Canada is in the same league as Russia and China about copyright infringement?
He didn't say that, I didn't say that: You're seeing words in your head that aren't there. Canadia is on the same list because Congress feels their laws and enforcement do not protect America's property interests well enough. While it's far from the greatest issue facing our nation, we'd totally prefer it if every nation honored the spirit of the various copyright-protection treaties.
Don't worry, we'd prefer if you kept your treaties as well. Perhaps if your country acted with honour you'd get more respect. One example which has actually resulted in real lost jobs around here and been bad for the local economy is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwood_lumber_dispute.
Only thing is there is no DMCA
One thing I appreciated in Hatch's little speech was his admission that the DMCA isn't perfect, which is a pretty big stretch for him (he was a major supporter of the bill). I'm assuming you're trying to get me to make a DMCA-supporting statement, which I won't: It's a bad law in too many ways.
Did you actually read his speech? I quote
When we passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act in 1998, one of my goals was to address the problems caused when copyrighted works are disseminated through the Internet and other electronic transmissions without the authority of the copyright owner.
By establishing clear rules of the road, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act served as the catalyst that has allowed electronic commerce to flourish. I believe the DMCA, while not perfect, has nonetheless played a key role in moving our nationâ(TM)s copyright law into the digital age.
which to me and what I know of the Senator, sounds like he wishes the law was more encompassing. Personally I bought a new DVD yesterday and to watch it on my computer would be illegal if I was in the States.
Canada's issue isn't a lack of DMCA, but generally looser laws which are very hard to enforce civilly even with legitimate claims. Enforcement of a claim from outside the country is just a whisker shy of impossible.
Well we do consider the right to privacy to be important and also believe in justice rather then whoever has the money can sue and win without having any merits in the case.
Still if you want to talk about loose laws, here the music industry demanded changes to the law. Mainly that they get paid every time I buy a CD to back up something or a tape to video tape my son growing up. In trade for this money grab was the recognition that we have a right to make personal copies of music.
Meanwhile your country stands alone as encouraging commercial copyright infringement as long as you call it a joke or satire. And when you satirize some Canadian content does your justice system punish the commercial infringers? At least here the cops do swoop down pretty quick on commercial infringement. Which is good as someone paying money for pirated material would also probably pay for original material.
And Canada doesn't even have "Fair Use". So obviously the States is even worse then Canada about Copyright, letting people infringe copyright for satire, parody etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_dealing#Fair_dealing_in_Canada
You agree with Hatch that Canada is in the same league as Russia and China about copyright infringement?
Canada is not too different from the States and probably has about the same amount of copyright infringement. No one sells CDs or DVDs on the street corner unless they recorded it themselves with their own IP and I've only seen that twice. Downloading is probably equal to the rest of the western world. Only thing is there is no DMCA so if I purchase a DVD I can break the encryption and play it on my non-windows computer legally.
Also IP based industry is perhaps even more important in Canada as so many American companies come up here to film movies.
Well here is the discussion about chrome, one thread, 2 links as it crossed a month boundary.
http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2009-May/070533.html
http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2009-June/070607.html
Also here is where they keep track of violators, http://ffmpeg.org/shame.html