If NASA itself doesn't have the plans, then Northrop Grummand, JPL, Boeing, North American Aviation, and half a dozen other subcontracted agencies would.
That might be the case, I don't know. But the papers that NASA has are so faded that they are all but useless. You can find pictures of some of them online I think.
The safety issues are at least as important as the environmental ones, trust me. Every time our engineering firm deals with something that relates to "human", especially space flight, expect 10X the cost and complexity of the unmanned version.
Of course, maybe even more, but both Apollo and Orion were/will be manned. My point was that the Apollo technology that is unavailable (read: illegal) today is the technology with environmental impact.
I don't know about the Saturn 1, but the Saturn 5 was supposed to have been an environmental nightmare. I don't claim to really know many details, but I had it explained to me once by someone in the industry. I'm sure that stuff is online. Were Saturn 1's used to launch humans? I only ever remember hearing about Saturn 5's.
We accept this from almost every industry. Automobiles, appliances, internet services, telephone service, cell phone services(pay to receive calls? You all are nuts to swallow that), and most of all your government. Everybody complains like hell, but they keep on buying the BS.
Americans PAY to receive cellphone calls? Can someone confirm that? Do people find this ridiculous, or is this commonly accepted?
They are so friendly and customer-focused that you have to jump through hoops to get the product that you want. Why do we put up with this shit when we wouldn't accept this from almost any other industry?
Actually, Alienware (a Dell subsidiary) has XP available. For $127 over the price of Vista.
The cost problems include an $80 million overrun on a motor system
Well, that's sucks I guess. But since NASA has something like a $17 billion budget, isn't that a colossal non-issue? I realize this was just the motor system, but if I had a $40,000 budget to furnish a new home, I don't think I would be concerned if the coffee table was $20 more than I was expecting.
From Wikipedia: "NASA's current FY 2008 budget of $17.318 billion represents about 0.6% of the $2.9 trillion United States federal budget."
I'll let the reader come to his own conclusions about US priorities. Without linking to the DoD budget.
Now, just initial here that the 2008 mandatory stress testing has been done on each component, OSHA has approved the ergonomics of the seats, all modern safety systems are in place...and...hello? Where are you going?
Actually, the real problem is the toxic fuels that were used, and a few other toxic components. It's the _environmental_ issues that prevent Apollo-era technology from flying today, not the safety issues.
40 years later we can barely make it out of Earth's atmosphere. Just use the equipment from the Apollo program...problem solved.
Not only does NASA not have the Apollo equipment, they don't even have the plans anymore! It was all stored in some humid Florida closet, and is unreadable today. All the design, right down to the wind tunnel testing, would have to be redone.
How long will there be no active US manned spacecraft - and will this get longer? I am reminded of the gap between Apollo and the Shuttle - and look at what happened to Skylab...
This is expected, though. Since when do projects half this scale go as planned? I just hope the Americans get their shit together and give Orion the funding it needs.
even if did read full kernel changelogs, i wouldn't be able to understand which commits are security related. so i would rely on somebody to do that AND publicise it, at which point it gets more publicity than simply marking it in the changelog would have provided.
That's what your distro does. Unless you are rolling your own, in which case, it is up to you to read the entire changelog and understand it.
I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in that they make such a big deal about concentrating on security to the point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.
The chance I need a random bugfix is very small; if I don't need it, I don't want it. The chance I want a security bugfix is almost 100%.
And where will the manpower for triaging every bug for possible exploits come from? Not all security-related bugs are easily identifiable as such. And even if they were, and then they were marked as such, do you really want the changelog easily greppable by them?
Read the replies. Linus is not advocating security through obscurity. He just doesn't want a big flashing sign "SECURITY" on security-related bugfixes. He doesn't want them to stand out in any way at all.
As was said upthread, if want you want is a workstation that doesn't use all the Vista services, it's easier and cheaper to just turn off the services you don't want:).
It would be even easier and cheaper to install Kubuntu.
The experience is definitely not a simple "setup windows, modify windows, use as normal" one. Most of the random things that screw up are fixable, but just too much of a pain in the ass and ultimately a waste of time.
So basically, Windows is where Linux was before Ubuntu came along?
Slashdot Mirror
If NASA itself doesn't have the plans, then Northrop Grummand, JPL, Boeing, North American Aviation, and half a dozen other subcontracted agencies would.
That might be the case, I don't know. But the papers that NASA has are so faded that they are all but useless. You can find pictures of some of them online I think.
The safety issues are at least as important as the environmental ones, trust me. Every time our engineering firm deals with something that relates to "human", especially space flight, expect 10X the cost and complexity of the unmanned version.
Of course, maybe even more, but both Apollo and Orion were/will be manned. My point was that the Apollo technology that is unavailable (read: illegal) today is the technology with environmental impact.
I don't know about the Saturn 1, but the Saturn 5 was supposed to have been an environmental nightmare. I don't claim to really know many details, but I had it explained to me once by someone in the industry. I'm sure that stuff is online. Were Saturn 1's used to launch humans? I only ever remember hearing about Saturn 5's.
Totally OT, but after reading your sig:
If you're reading this, then I'm very bored at work. Then again, so are you.
I am really surprised that it didn't end with "Lets go fuck.".
We accept this from almost every industry. Automobiles, appliances, internet services, telephone service, cell phone services(pay to receive calls? You all are nuts to swallow that), and most of all your government. Everybody complains like hell, but they keep on buying the BS.
Americans PAY to receive cellphone calls? Can someone confirm that? Do people find this ridiculous, or is this commonly accepted?
They are so friendly and customer-focused that you have to jump through hoops to get the product that you want. Why do we put up with this shit when we wouldn't accept this from almost any other industry?
Actually, Alienware (a Dell subsidiary) has XP available. For $127 over the price of Vista.
I purchase Latitudes, and precision computers. If someone wanted an Inspirion it may be different.
Good thing the Inspiron comes with Ubuntu.
Well, that's sucks I guess. But since NASA has something like a $17 billion budget, isn't that a colossal non-issue? I realize this was just the motor system, but if I had a $40,000 budget to furnish a new home, I don't think I would be concerned if the coffee table was $20 more than I was expecting.
From Wikipedia:
"NASA's current FY 2008 budget of $17.318 billion represents about 0.6% of the $2.9 trillion United States federal budget."
I'll let the reader come to his own conclusions about US priorities. Without linking to the DoD budget.
Now, just initial here that the 2008 mandatory stress testing has been done on each component, OSHA has approved the ergonomics of the seats, all modern safety systems are in place...and...hello? Where are you going?
Actually, the real problem is the toxic fuels that were used, and a few other toxic components. It's the _environmental_ issues that prevent Apollo-era technology from flying today, not the safety issues.
40 years later we can barely make it out of Earth's atmosphere. Just use the equipment from the Apollo program...problem solved.
Not only does NASA not have the Apollo equipment, they don't even have the plans anymore! It was all stored in some humid Florida closet, and is unreadable today. All the design, right down to the wind tunnel testing, would have to be redone.
How long will there be no active US manned spacecraft - and will this get longer?
I am reminded of the gap between Apollo and the Shuttle - and look at what happened to Skylab...
This is expected, though. Since when do projects half this scale go as planned? I just hope the Americans get their shit together and give Orion the funding it needs.
NASA's been over-budget and behind schedule since the last Apollo flight.
Please remind me which USG agency has not been? (Other than the post office)
IIRC the solution to the problem of running out of breathable air involved rubber bands and duct tape.
Because duct tape can be bought on any budget. Hell, it better be the first thing on the budget. Hell, it's probably holding the budget together.
even if did read full kernel changelogs, i wouldn't be able to understand which commits are security related. so i would rely on somebody to do that AND publicise it, at which point it gets more publicity than simply marking it in the changelog would have provided.
That's what your distro does. Unless you are rolling your own, in which case, it is up to you to read the entire changelog and understand it.
"Dear God, won't somebody please think of the children?"
Actually, as a kernel issue, this affects all the system threads.
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950
I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in
that they make such a big deal about concentrating on security to the
point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7451/poster68251050mx9.jpg
The chance I need a random bugfix is very small; if I don't need it, I don't want it. The chance I want a security bugfix is almost 100%.
And where will the manpower for triaging every bug for possible exploits come from? Not all security-related bugs are easily identifiable as such. And even if they were, and then they were marked as such, do you really want the changelog easily greppable by them?
Read the replies. Linus is not advocating security through obscurity. He just doesn't want a big flashing sign "SECURITY" on security-related bugfixes. He doesn't want them to stand out in any way at all.
What scientific whiz at NASA came up with this one?
A real cockhead. His subordinates are now really pissed.
Jesus, first huffing and now this. Will these youngsters ever learn?
I would have thought they'd learn when the wrist started hurting
I can't wait for videos of when they start drilling into it.
You are aware that they are doing all this with the hope of finding a few little green dwarfs, right?
Fuck everything, we're doing five blades!
I don't care if the engineer has to put one vertical!
All hail our heroic... ahm... rasp deliverers!
I for one welcome our heroic... OH FUCK IT!
As was said upthread, if want you want is a workstation that doesn't use all the Vista services, it's easier and cheaper to just turn off the services you don't want :).
It would be even easier and cheaper to install Kubuntu.
The experience is definitely not a simple "setup windows, modify windows, use as normal" one. Most of the random things that screw up are fixable, but just too much of a pain in the ass and ultimately a waste of time.
So basically, Windows is where Linux was before Ubuntu came along?