Gaming consoles and phones are two very different devices. Don't go selling me oranges while trying to convince me they are apples. If you want to talk about the walled gardens surrounding consoles, I will be happy to do so, but that is an entirely different conversation.
Also, for reference, I would buy an iPod Touch if there were enough games out for it that I felt that I needed to play...alas, there isn't:/ It's just as well though, my fiancee would likely steal it from me anyway;-)
I don't subscribe to any kind of fanboyism, and when it comes to video games I want to be able to play as many as I possibly can. I don't want to miss out on a game because I'm not willing to own this console or that console. So, once there are five or more exclusives that I want to play on a system, I go buy it.
As far as the closed nature of consoles, that's why I have a gaming-capable PC:-) If it's available on PC, that's what I play it on:-)
What triggered my "fanboy" response was that you're saying that *THE* reason you won't buy one is the single-source App Store, without providing any evidence that the App Store is holding back the platform. By every metric, iOS has more apps, more quality apps, etc., than any other mobile OS, and it is in no danger of that changing.
Even so, I don't mean to imply in any way that that invalidates your opinion. Opinions are personal, and no one has the right to tell you that yours is wrong. I'm just pointing out that it's not as rationally based as it's being portrayed (based on the reasoning you gave). This is specially pertinent due to all the people constantly saying that anyone who says anything in defense of Apple is guilty of the same.
And I never said it shouldn't be. I just said that your stated reason is based on ideology (or theory, if you prefer) and not on how things actually are.
Fair enough. I went back and reread what I had written...hindsight and all that, I can easily see what you're talking about.
Not quite...my point was that things like fart apps are approved, while genuinely useful apps are denied. It wasn't a dig at fart apps, but rather Apple's approval policies.
To clarify, I never said that the iPhone sucks, nor did I say that Android is the best. I simply said that it provides me with what I want. Again, not fanboyism, just my opinion. In fact, if you look at my original post that you replied to, I specifically stated that Android was where it was at for me.
Also, for what it's worth, the people modding you down because of your opinion can suck it.
Exactly. You don't care about the reality of what's offered, but instead by your ideological aversion to having only one app store.
I see. So you're saying my opinion is wrong. Thanks.
Not wanting to be stuck with a single app store is not stupid, but choosing an inferior product for the primary reason that it has the option for additional sources of apps tends towards the irrational. I.e., fanboyism.
opinion.
Now, if you truly think that Android will end up with more apps because of this, or at the very least, more high quality apps, then your decision to avoid the iPhone is rational, but the basis behind it is still based on ideology. There's no reason whatsoever to believe that third party Android app stores is going to result in more apps than the iPhone. What will result in more apps is more users and a higher-quality user experience. Android lags significantly behind iPhone in both categories.
I haven't seen anything the iPhone OS can do that Android can't. Can you name some?
You repeat the "there's only one app store" thing over and over, but you completely fail to demonstrate how that's a problem. It's just ideology. It's fanboyism.
I told you why it's a problem. I personally don't want to be tied to a single store. It's not fanboyism, it's what I want.
I honestly see no difference except that you have more choice over your form factor (a good thing) and that you can write apps in java instead of objc (another good thing)... not that you'll be able to INSTALL those apps if your carrier or phone manufacturer doesn't want you to.
The key thing is that you have a choice...if you don't like what a manufacturer/carrier has to offer, you can go with someone else.
Correct. That's why I wrote, "yeah, I mean, who wants the world's largest selection of quality apps". The App Store has the largest selection of quality apps, not just the largest selections of apps alone (which it also has).
You are limited to the app store. Android (and, even though as an OS it isn't as robust, Windows Mobile 6.5) are limited to anything written for them available anywhere on the Internet, with no hacking or modding required.
Yeah, like 5 or something. That doesn't change the fact that the App Store has more quality apps than any other mobile store out there.
Again, you are still limited to the store. For Android, for example, you have the choice of going through the official store or any other place online that provides applications.
Whereas the Android Marketplace has no crap apps?
It does, but once again, Android users aren't limited to the Marketplace.
You pay so close attention that you think fart apps are indicative of the overall App Store, that thinks that the iPhone is a locked down wasteland, while Android is a thriving metropolis?
No, I was merely using fart apps as an example. Overall, yes, the Appstore does have plenty to offer. However, I don't like being restricted to a single location as a means for finding applications for my phone, regardless of what that single location offers. Why wouldn't Apple enable you to download things from places other than the Appstore? People that actually need the walled garden can stick to the Store, and "power users" would be free to go elsewhere. So why doesn't Apple do that?
No, you're simply informed that the App Store is locked down, and that Android is less locked down, any any other fact be damned.
You're right. Unless I hack an iPhone, I am limited to the Appstore, again, regardless of what that may include. With Android, I have the option of the Appstore and other sources, without having to hack my phone.
Bullshit. Apple doesn't control what I can do, they merely control what apps I can get from the App Store, nothing more. I can buy a key and compile and run any app I want. I don't even have to buy a key, someone else can and distribute an app to hundreds of people for free. I can jailbreak. I can use HTML5 apps, which are extremely capable (Google's Voice webapp is fantastic).
See bold section. Having to hack your phone to leap over the walled garden isn't necessarily something to use in an attempt to sway my opinion, when I can already download anything I want from wherever I want for my unmodified device.
No, I'm defending the fact that the device has far more quality options than any other device out there. You are defending a device that is actually limited by actually not having as many quality apps for nothing more than ideology.
Once again, Android devices aren't limited to the Appstore.
That's the definition of a fanboy.
I don't have an iPhone primarily because I don't want to be stuck with a single location for applications. I'm sorry that seems stupid to you, but that is my requirement, and as of now the iPhone doesn't meet that requirement.
Not buying a product because it doesn't do what I want makes me a fanboy?
Yeah, I mean, who wants the world's largest selection of quality apps, all vetted to be reasonably sure of being malware-free and of at least a minimum level of quality and stability!
Yeah, because fart apps are considered quality. Quantity != quality. Plenty of quality apps have been denied, while plenty of crap is available in the app store.
Even though, at present, the "walled garden" provides a superior all-around app experience for most people
New Kids on the Block had a number 1 hit. "Superior" is very subjective.
there are some for whom ideology trumps reality. And I'm the one that gets called "fanboy"?
You are defending the fact that your device is artificially limited. That, to me, is the very definition of a fanboy.
Nothing I can do or say will change the fact that Apple retains control over what you can and can't do with your device. The only thing I can do is vote with my wallet, so that's what I do. Forgive me for being a consumer who pays attention.
I'm glad to see the iPhone getting a serious upgrade in the hardware department, but the walled garden is still enough to keep me from ever owning one. Android is teh place to be, at least for me.
Once you go past a three screen Eyefinity setup, Bezels become a real serious problem. With three displays it's no big deal, since the center monitor serves as your primary view while the other two monitors expand your peripheral vision...but with 6 monitors, you will have bezels crossing the center of your point of view, making things real wonky.
Yes, it's awesome having the size, but until someone releases a bezel-less six monitor system, it's kind of a waste of time. Besides, with how much a six monitor setup would cost, you may as well buy a good quality projector.
One of the common claims regarding "cyber warfare" are attacks against the power grid. What I'd like to know is this: why is the power grid accessible to any outside system?
Uh, if they were lying, then the video would show the that. They have the cockipt voices and video from the chopper showing what happened. They made a statement. If there was a contradiction, the JAGs office would have a field day with them....
You said the unedited video doesn't exist. If that's true, then all we have to go on is what the pilots said, pilots which would never implicate themselves (and the military likely wouldn't either, as it would add validity to the fact that what they did was wrong.)
If it DOES exist, and if it clears the military from looking as bad, then why doesn't the army release it?
So despite the fact that he's a genuine hero, both in a moral and practical sense, and did the entire world a service with his actions, you still feel a need to pay lip service to authority and the rules they designed to oppress exactly this kind of information from reaching the public?
I never said I agreed with it, I said I can understand why it happend. Understanding something and agreeing with something are two different concepts.
we know that the helicopter pilots DID NOT fire TWICE when there were civilians/children in harms way. Seeing that might change the thoughts slightly on the pieces of video that were seen...
Oh, ok. Wow, that totally changes things. I mean, now that we know they only did it ONCE, there is no problem.::eyeroll::
Look. I understand that it's war and shit happens. Regardless, they still shot up a van that had kids in it with a wounded journalist being loaded on board. Once, twice, a hundred times...it doesn't matter. They still did it.
I loved how nobody bothered to point out that there were rocket launchers and AK-47's in the collateral murder video.
Did you bother to point out that there were children in a van that was being loaded with a wounded journalist that got blasted to hell?
Anti war people are so gullible.
And pro-war people aren't? "Iraq has WMDs! Oops, we mean they don't." "If we go to Afghanistan, we can capture and/or kill bin Laden! Oops, I mean we can't."
Come on. Seriously? You're acusing anti-war folks of being gullible?
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones. You sure you got today's codes?
I can understand this dude getting in trouble for leaking information and such, but kudos to him for getting the collateral murder video out there in the wild.
And when I read about Nixon his crimes always seem so quaint compared to what politicians routinely get away with today.
True, but there was also a time when showing a kiss longer than few seconds was unthinkable in cinema. There was also a time when Lenny Bruce was considered filthy and immoral.
Very reminiscent of Ecco the Dolphin. I found it a bit weird that the environments were so awesome looking while the main character looked like it was drawn by a ten year old, but other than that it was a great game. Be sure to check it out.
Slashdot Mirror
Gaming consoles and phones are two very different devices. Don't go selling me oranges while trying to convince me they are apples. If you want to talk about the walled gardens surrounding consoles, I will be happy to do so, but that is an entirely different conversation.
Also, for reference, I would buy an iPod Touch if there were enough games out for it that I felt that I needed to play...alas, there isn't :/ It's just as well though, my fiancee would likely steal it from me anyway ;-)
I don't subscribe to any kind of fanboyism, and when it comes to video games I want to be able to play as many as I possibly can. I don't want to miss out on a game because I'm not willing to own this console or that console. So, once there are five or more exclusives that I want to play on a system, I go buy it.
As far as the closed nature of consoles, that's why I have a gaming-capable PC :-) If it's available on PC, that's what I play it on:-)
What triggered my "fanboy" response was that you're saying that *THE* reason you won't buy one is the single-source App Store, without providing any evidence that the App Store is holding back the platform. By every metric, iOS has more apps, more quality apps, etc., than any other mobile OS, and it is in no danger of that changing.
Even so, I don't mean to imply in any way that that invalidates your opinion. Opinions are personal, and no one has the right to tell you that yours is wrong. I'm just pointing out that it's not as rationally based as it's being portrayed (based on the reasoning you gave). This is specially pertinent due to all the people constantly saying that anyone who says anything in defense of Apple is guilty of the same.
And I never said it shouldn't be. I just said that your stated reason is based on ideology (or theory, if you prefer) and not on how things actually are.
Fair enough. I went back and reread what I had written...hindsight and all that, I can easily see what you're talking about.
Not quite...my point was that things like fart apps are approved, while genuinely useful apps are denied. It wasn't a dig at fart apps, but rather Apple's approval policies.
To clarify, I never said that the iPhone sucks, nor did I say that Android is the best. I simply said that it provides me with what I want. Again, not fanboyism, just my opinion. In fact, if you look at my original post that you replied to, I specifically stated that Android was where it was at for me.
Also, for what it's worth, the people modding you down because of your opinion can suck it.
Exactly. You don't care about the reality of what's offered, but instead by your ideological aversion to having only one app store.
I see. So you're saying my opinion is wrong. Thanks.
Not wanting to be stuck with a single app store is not stupid, but choosing an inferior product for the primary reason that it has the option for additional sources of apps tends towards the irrational. I.e., fanboyism.
opinion.
Now, if you truly think that Android will end up with more apps because of this, or at the very least, more high quality apps, then your decision to avoid the iPhone is rational, but the basis behind it is still based on ideology. There's no reason whatsoever to believe that third party Android app stores is going to result in more apps than the iPhone. What will result in more apps is more users and a higher-quality user experience. Android lags significantly behind iPhone in both categories.
I haven't seen anything the iPhone OS can do that Android can't. Can you name some?
You repeat the "there's only one app store" thing over and over, but you completely fail to demonstrate how that's a problem. It's just ideology. It's fanboyism.
I told you why it's a problem. I personally don't want to be tied to a single store. It's not fanboyism, it's what I want.
I honestly see no difference except that you have more choice over your form factor (a good thing) and that you can write apps in java instead of objc (another good thing)... not that you'll be able to INSTALL those apps if your carrier or phone manufacturer doesn't want you to.
The key thing is that you have a choice...if you don't like what a manufacturer/carrier has to offer, you can go with someone else.
Correct. That's why I wrote, "yeah, I mean, who wants the world's largest selection of quality apps". The App Store has the largest selection of quality apps, not just the largest selections of apps alone (which it also has).
You are limited to the app store. Android (and, even though as an OS it isn't as robust, Windows Mobile 6.5) are limited to anything written for them available anywhere on the Internet, with no hacking or modding required.
Yeah, like 5 or something. That doesn't change the fact that the App Store has more quality apps than any other mobile store out there.
Again, you are still limited to the store. For Android, for example, you have the choice of going through the official store or any other place online that provides applications.
Whereas the Android Marketplace has no crap apps?
It does, but once again, Android users aren't limited to the Marketplace.
You pay so close attention that you think fart apps are indicative of the overall App Store, that thinks that the iPhone is a locked down wasteland, while Android is a thriving metropolis?
No, I was merely using fart apps as an example. Overall, yes, the Appstore does have plenty to offer. However, I don't like being restricted to a single location as a means for finding applications for my phone, regardless of what that single location offers. Why wouldn't Apple enable you to download things from places other than the Appstore? People that actually need the walled garden can stick to the Store, and "power users" would be free to go elsewhere. So why doesn't Apple do that?
No, you're simply informed that the App Store is locked down, and that Android is less locked down, any any other fact be damned.
You're right. Unless I hack an iPhone, I am limited to the Appstore, again, regardless of what that may include. With Android, I have the option of the Appstore and other sources, without having to hack my phone.
Bullshit. Apple doesn't control what I can do, they merely control what apps I can get from the App Store, nothing more. I can buy a key and compile and run any app I want. I don't even have to buy a key, someone else can and distribute an app to hundreds of people for free. I can jailbreak. I can use HTML5 apps, which are extremely capable (Google's Voice webapp is fantastic).
See bold section. Having to hack your phone to leap over the walled garden isn't necessarily something to use in an attempt to sway my opinion, when I can already download anything I want from wherever I want for my unmodified device.
No, I'm defending the fact that the device has far more quality options than any other device out there. You are defending a device that is actually limited by actually not having as many quality apps for nothing more than ideology.
Once again, Android devices aren't limited to the Appstore.
That's the definition of a fanboy.
I don't have an iPhone primarily because I don't want to be stuck with a single location for applications. I'm sorry that seems stupid to you, but that is my requirement, and as of now the iPhone doesn't meet that requirement.
Not buying a product because it doesn't do what I want makes me a fanboy?
Yeah, I mean, who wants the world's largest selection of quality apps, all vetted to be reasonably sure of being malware-free and of at least a minimum level of quality and stability!
Yeah, because fart apps are considered quality. Quantity != quality. Plenty of quality apps have been denied, while plenty of crap is available in the app store.
Even though, at present, the "walled garden" provides a superior all-around app experience for most people
New Kids on the Block had a number 1 hit. "Superior" is very subjective.
there are some for whom ideology trumps reality. And I'm the one that gets called "fanboy"?
You are defending the fact that your device is artificially limited. That, to me, is the very definition of a fanboy.
Nothing I can do or say will change the fact that Apple retains control over what you can and can't do with your device. The only thing I can do is vote with my wallet, so that's what I do. Forgive me for being a consumer who pays attention.
But then what abbreviation isn't taken nowadays?
B.N.C.S.
Actually wait...
I'm glad to see the iPhone getting a serious upgrade in the hardware department, but the walled garden is still enough to keep me from ever owning one. Android is teh place to be, at least for me.
Once you go past a three screen Eyefinity setup, Bezels become a real serious problem. With three displays it's no big deal, since the center monitor serves as your primary view while the other two monitors expand your peripheral vision...but with 6 monitors, you will have bezels crossing the center of your point of view, making things real wonky.
Yes, it's awesome having the size, but until someone releases a bezel-less six monitor system, it's kind of a waste of time. Besides, with how much a six monitor setup would cost, you may as well buy a good quality projector.
One of the common claims regarding "cyber warfare" are attacks against the power grid. What I'd like to know is this: why is the power grid accessible to any outside system?
Uh, if they were lying, then the video would show the that. They have the cockipt voices and video from the chopper showing what happened. They made a statement. If there was a contradiction, the JAGs office would have a field day with them....
You said the unedited video doesn't exist. If that's true, then all we have to go on is what the pilots said, pilots which would never implicate themselves (and the military likely wouldn't either, as it would add validity to the fact that what they did was wrong.)
If it DOES exist, and if it clears the military from looking as bad, then why doesn't the army release it?
Right...because soldiers would really implicate themselves in something like this.
Like I said before, it doesn't matter if they did it twice or not...what matters is they did it once.
So despite the fact that he's a genuine hero, both in a moral and practical sense, and did the entire world a service with his actions, you still feel a need to pay lip service to authority and the rules they designed to oppress exactly this kind of information from reaching the public?
I never said I agreed with it, I said I can understand why it happend. Understanding something and agreeing with something are two different concepts.
we know that the helicopter pilots DID NOT fire TWICE when there were civilians/children in harms way. Seeing that might change the thoughts slightly on the pieces of video that were seen...
Oh, ok. Wow, that totally changes things. I mean, now that we know they only did it ONCE, there is no problem. ::eyeroll::
Look. I understand that it's war and shit happens. Regardless, they still shot up a van that had kids in it with a wounded journalist being loaded on board. Once, twice, a hundred times...it doesn't matter. They still did it.
I loved how nobody bothered to point out that there were rocket launchers and AK-47's in the collateral murder video.
Did you bother to point out that there were children in a van that was being loaded with a wounded journalist that got blasted to hell?
Anti war people are so gullible.
And pro-war people aren't? "Iraq has WMDs! Oops, we mean they don't." "If we go to Afghanistan, we can capture and/or kill bin Laden! Oops, I mean we can't."
Come on. Seriously? You're acusing anti-war folks of being gullible?
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones. You sure you got today's codes?
I can understand this dude getting in trouble for leaking information and such, but kudos to him for getting the collateral murder video out there in the wild.
And when I read about Nixon his crimes always seem so quaint compared to what politicians routinely get away with today.
True, but there was also a time when showing a kiss longer than few seconds was unthinkable in cinema. There was also a time when Lenny Bruce was considered filthy and immoral.
Just sayin'.
Very reminiscent of Ecco the Dolphin. I found it a bit weird that the environments were so awesome looking while the main character looked like it was drawn by a ten year old, but other than that it was a great game. Be sure to check it out.
In yo momma's pants.
Sorry folks. Slow day here at the office.
porfnig ab kernck
No glot! Clom Fliday!