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Claimed US Military Wikileaks Source Arrested
svelemor writes "A 22-year-old Army intelligence analyst was ratted out by a fellow hacker, accused of providing the Collateral Murder video and hundreds of thousands of classified State Department records to Wikileaks. He is currently imprisoned in Kuwait."
I can understand this dude getting in trouble for leaking information and such, but kudos to him for getting the collateral murder video out there in the wild.
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He is a hero. Mobilize the power of the international working class -- defeat U.S. imperialism!
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Do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk, ice cream? Ice cream, Mandrake? Children's ice cream!...You know when fluoridation began?...1946. 1946, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works. I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love...Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women...women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake...but I do deny them my essence.
Honestly. For standing up for what is right instead of doing what he's told. If there isn't a medal for that, there fucking should be.
I know I would choose to keep quiet, but I'm a coward (even if not anonymous).
It must have taken a lot of courage to leak all that info.
Kudos for him, I wish I had that kind of self sacrificing will.
This lad deserves a medal just for outting the Collateral Murder video alone. Let alone all the other "hundreds of thousands" of classified records (which im very skeptical of. I fail to see how one man can just handover this much info on his own)
I can understand this dude getting in trouble for leaking information
So despite the fact that he's a genuine hero, both in a moral and practical sense, and did the entire world a service with his actions, you still feel a need to pay lip service to authority and the rules they designed to oppress exactly this kind of information from reaching the public?
I can see leaking select diplomatic cables, but leaking all of them seems horribly irresponsible.
I'm really sad though, because that guy could've been a great source. Our country, and most countries around the world have gotten away with hiding any number of things from the public that they shouldn't be. It would be really nice for those things to be made public.
Governments (ours most definitely included) do horrible ugly things, and I really want more people to be forced to confront that in a way they can't deny.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
Apparently there are several versions of this video, at least one having been edited by this guy. I also understand that the edits removed a lot of what could be considered vital context.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
Honestly. For standing up for what is right instead of doing what he's told. If there isn't a medal for that, there fucking should be.
He gambled with his access to this data and, in hindsight, I think it was a very imprudent thing to do that might result in espionage or treason charges. The documents he released would have to have had such a profound impact on the American people, the American press and the rest of the world that his imprisonment could only be seen as an Imperial action committed by a war hungry country. This, however, would require that politicians become involved and pardon him from any persecution instead of a military level court decision. And for that, I think we would have to be talking about more than a few accidental killings in a war zone. We would have to be talking about an unacknowledged war crime. The Garani video listed in the article might be a war crime but it sounds like the United States has admitted to it in the press, thereby removing the blunt effect it might have or the super valuable phrase "cover up".
Unfortunately for Manning, none of this went down to the degree he needed it to. I don't mean to sound apologetic or like lives are trivial things to be dispatched with at the push of a button but the American people seem to be okay with the fact that hell is visited upon two other nations by way of their tax dollar. If they want to, they can watch journalists being killed in Iraq. It's been available for several months with little impact. The justifications of these wars range from 9/11 to 'they got our oil' but it seems that anything Manning leaked has failed to leave the impact it needed to in order to ensure his freedom. That's my opinion from watching the media circus so far anyway--his only hope seems to be that the Garani video has much more of an impact. The 260,000 diplomatic cables are not going to have the impact he'll need them to. I can understand selected videos of unacknowledged journalist killings but why the cables? I don't think the politicians will appreciate that at all and it will do nothing for his case.
My work here is dung.
Lamo's last name is a stunningly accurate characterization of his actions in this case. Might I amend it to say "piece of shit?"
See, I disagree, if he was a civilian and somehow got ahold of those videos then he could do what ever he wanted with them, and it would be fine by me, but he was part of the militay, and when you join you take a oath to protect the people of the US, and that includes the others serveing with you. This stuff is confidential for a reason, good or bad it need to stay that way for a while, this is no diffrent that getting the plans to say build weapons and post them on the internet. Yes I know that some one could take those plans and make the wepons and hurt our guys out there, but what do you think our enemies think when they see videos like this. It defenitly isn't feer, it anger and thyat will make them more hostile to our guys out in the field. I'm not one for censorship of free speech but this is in NO way free speech. I think this guy should spend YEARS in jail, and no I don't think that is too harsh. In 10 years when this stuff would be declassified and if it went public then, that would have been fine, because everything would have died down, and hopefully we wouldn't still be at war, but not when our guys are still out there every day, risking their lives.
A lot of the material he leaked was Top Secret. To be classified as Top Secret, the release of that information must cause imminent, serious harm to the United States and/or its allies and assets. Would he have the stones to take personal responsibility when the insurgents find US and Iraqi Government collaborators through that data and start murdering them and their families?
Of course not. Guys like this virtually never want to be judged by the entire scope of the consequences of their actions. He'll feel smug that he exposed data like that helicopter footage, but when some collaborator's children are raped and murdered because of him, he'll deny that he's culpable for that.
Shame on our democratic government for trying to keep things like this a secret.
If you're going to do something illegal that you don't want anyone to know you did, perhaps you shouldn't tell people about it on the internet. Whether it was the morally right thing to do or not, leaking it anonymously then bragging you were the source makes no sense and is stupid.
Oh what ever.
Go back to hell and smoke your pot, hippy.
Manning comments on his amazing hacker skillz to get classified info.
FTFA:
Huh. And Congress (specifically fascist Joe Lieberman) wants to give the military the ability to control civilian networks in a "cyber emergency". Yeah, good luck with that...
He's putting US Citizen's lives in danger by exposing a cover up by the US Military? Now there's some Dubya bush logic!
From a BBC article with more details from the person who turned him in:
I gave them conversation logs that implicated Special Agent Manning. They were particularly interested in a code word for a major operation.
So you know, in addition to the videos and diplomatic cables he was out and about bragging about this and discussing major operations and their code words. While you might be able to justify the videos, I don't know how you could justify bragging to people about it and discussing current military operations on the internet. That could probably be construed as putting the lives of many soldiers in danger.
My work here is dung.
I mean, this is a democracy with a transparent government, not North Korea, right? *sigh*
I have a hard time believing that there isn't some kind of law against this kind of thing given the sensitivity of intelligence information, but I still concur with the person you were responding to: why is this kind of information being suppressed at all by a (small d) democratic government?
"Allegations in Wired that we have been sent 260,000 classified US embassy cables are, as far as we can tell, incorrect." http://twitter.com/wikileaks
War-crimes are okay if you commit them for your country. Or if an old, fat man with lots of shiny things tells you it's okay. I'm reminded of a psychological experiment involving shocking test-takers.
The military all too often makes things secret not because it is sensitive, but because it would generate bad PR. This is not how a democratic government is supposed to function. If you don't like living in a country with a transparent government, you can always move to places like North Korea.
If this person was the only person who helped people murdered make their last testament, then is he not a hero?
Did he not rise to a greater challenge, to truth and integrity?
I say. if he can be imprisoned, so can we.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
Lamo says he felt he had no choice but to turn in Manning, but that he's now concerned about the soldier's status and well-being.
Sure, Manning broke some security regulations. Naughty, but there are extenuating circumstances such as exposing a cover up of war crimes and multiple counts of second degree murder and multiple counts of attempted murder. Lamo admits he is cooperating with a conspiracy to commit murder and is apparently a supporter of war crime activities. But Lamo is worried about Manning's situation? I wonder about Lamo's judgment. Supporting murder and war crimes is perfectly OK if you're at a high level in the US Govt, in fact "we" expect that kind of behavior from our leaders, but Lamo is not at such a level, he's just a punk whom got busted. I'd think Lamo's in a much more precarious legal situation than Manning is in... One thing to violate some paper handling regulations, another to be a quisling.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
The first scandal is the usual shit the government does, make a mistake and then cover it up. We've seen a lot of those in this war. We know this stuff happens all the time but the proof of it always hits me in the gut.
The second scandal is that the government is so poor at covering this stuff up that a junior guy like this is able to find the info and disseminate it without any difficulty. Absolutely piss-poor security. Perversely, I expect and demand a modicum of competence to go along with the amoral and evil. I feel insulted when I find out I'm getting screwed over by Mayberry Machiavellis.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
"A family member says he’s being held in custody in Kuwait, and has not been formally charged."
Honest question - Why do they not charge him?
My only thoughts are that either there is little/no evidence against him - OR - they are waiting for interest in the leaks to die away so there is little coverage when he is charged.
Any other ideas?
Bullshit.
First, there was a story on /. not long ago how *everything* is confidential now - and it's a major problem. Secondly, there are no "safety reasons" why this should be confidential - at most, it was to protect them from their own incompetence.
Exactly - the people of the US, not only the military. In this case, the people of the US have the right to be protected from their own army (yes, I know they weren't shooting US civilians, but to me an innocent's life is worth the same, no matter when they're from).
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If you demand perfection from troops, as in they never make a mistake, never harm an innocent, never cause collateral damage, well you are an idiot. That has never been the case in any conflict with any country. War is messy business. That is one of the many reasons why it should be a last resort. That is also why the rules of engagement and laws are different in the case of war. The question is not if civilians will die, they will. It is to try and minimize it, and to ensure that soldier aren't killing civilians for fun or the like.
So, if the helicopter crew made a legit mistake, well then it is just that: A tragic mistake, one of very many that happen in a war. If they were instead trying to kill civilians, that is entirely different.
Also in a conflict like Iraq in particular, it is extremely difficult. The Geneva Conventions exist not only to protect combatants, but in particular to protect non-combatants. You'll notice that they specify things like that soldier must wear a clear uniform, hospitals are not to be used as bases of operation and so on and so forth. Those rules are to protect civilians. Well the combatants in Iraq don't obey those rules. In fact they go out of their way to try and blend in as civilians, they do things like use ambulances for strikes.
That makes target identification much, much harder. It will lead to more mistakes, more civilian casualties.
Now while you can argue that this (and many other good reasons) means we should stop waging a war in Iraq, you should not vilify soldiers who make mistakes. Demanding perfect from them is no more realistic than demanding perfection anywhere else. You are not perfect, I am not perfect, they are not perfect.
Part of a consideration of war has to be the collateral damage, the lives lost that are not military. You can't say "They need to avoid that," because it isn't possible. They should attempt to minimize it, but it cannot be avoided entirely.
No, you take an oath to defend the Constitution. *BIG* difference.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
If you think there has ever been a war where civilians didn't get killed, you are kidding only yourself. So if you say that no civilian deaths are every ok at all, then that is to say that no war is ever ok at all, including a war of defense. If you are ever ok with a war, well then civilian deaths WILL be a part of it. The military can and should (and does) work to minimize it but mistakes happen, collateral damage happens.
Also remember the issue of the war being just and the actions of soldiers are separate matters. If you feel this unjust and the costs are not worth it, your beef is with the civilian government. They set the mission for the military, the military just carries it out.
From TFA:
Manning was turned in late last month by a former computer hacker with whom he spoke online
now that wasn't very smart either :P
He is lucky it made it in the news, because he would be MIA pretty quick for leaking that much information. Treason is nothing to mess with! not saying the info shouldent have gotten out, but I cant imagine all of it needed to be leaked and probably contained information on missions that could have jeopardized people ACTUALLY in the field. The video was pretty powerful though, and I can imagine it represents almost any military footage you would find by any country throughout the world. Sadly.
Im ok..
End of story. Yeah what happens sucks, but guess what, wars suck. Introducing yourself to a war zone is an the same as introducing yourself to death.
Why some reporters think they are immune to events is beyond me, enough to them die across the world while photographing fights. In some places they are willing accomplices to local banditry in staging photo shoots (see Lebanon for a great number of these). In Iraq I would bet they are valuable while they are making sure the American side looks bad, because out in the streets would be a bad place to have been walking a pro liberation line.
Good to see the leak source arrested, who knows that idiot would have released next and put hundreds if not thousands at risk. I am quite sure he isn't always aware of the impact of his releases. Yeah, I know, some have it in for "the man" but damn, between him and wikileaks they damaged the impact of the documents by purposely editing the video to paint the picture they wanted.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
the upside is that a healthy ego can help you navigate the missteps, crises and setbacks we experience in life
the downside is that an overly healthy ego can help create those same missteps, crises and setbacks
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
snitched get stiches
have to gain for telling all the stuff to Lamo?
He was actually asking for getting arrested when talking to unknown guy and telling him all the illegal stuff he did, but more importantly, the stuff he wanted to do.
I feel very sorry for his naivity, but I still respect him for having courage to do what he did.
Wish there could be some help to him...
With an S, they can throw you in prison. With a TS they can shoot you.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
The guy had a classified job and a duty to perform that job. His actions jeopardized and continues to jeopardize the lives of American and Nato soldiers so there isn't a hole in the ground deep enough for him to be sent to. The videos he provided have been edited down and turned into propaganda to be used against the United States. The US Military needs to use some common sense security so that crap doesn't happen again.
Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
I assume you will be happy to provide your tax ${CURRENCY} to help those who "get the hell out" (or "refugees" as they are commonly known) to get the hell out of there and claim benefits (a they don't speak English they won't be able to work) in your country if you are part of the coalition that invaded their territory, then?
You talk about transparency and democracy, but you blithely dismiss the fact that the asshole who "declassified" this data violated the laws and policies established by his own democratically elected government and the bureaucracy that the same democratically elected government put in place to prosecute this war. Furthermore, when he thought he found criminal conduct, he had an alphabet soup of agencies that could independently investigate and prosecute the people he turned in. The FBI, Army CID and DoD Inspector General, to name a few.
Did he contact agents from any of them? No. Did he even contact a member of Congress to try to hold an official investigation? No.
He decided that he and he alone was the authority to make that call.
I would sooner believe that every member of Congress memorized Obamacare from top to bottom than believe that a typical 22 year old enlistee would read 250,000 documents before pulling a stunt like this...
And sadly for him I don't think this kid is an Col. Edwards either. He went to presidents with counsel to object, then left detailed CYA memos, then tipped off Congress. Sen. Frank Church is the one that went on the hunt. Edwards died after testifying. He knew he was in ill health but was insistent his memos get the weight of his presence before he died. I've never met a more politically cynical person. This young kid looks like a fresh-faced idealist. It's going to cost him, even if Lamos story also seems a little fishy. We'll see if he went to counsel and left CYA memos too. I doubt it.
Col. Edwards had a lot to do with why we know as much about the Bay of Pigs and Castro assassination attempts as we do.
I know my current state Senator, on the armed services committee is a useless ass. Meh.
It's a lot easier to be an armchair general from the comfort of your home or work desk. It's quite another to be prone with your face ground into the dirt and bullets wizzing over your head. Mistakes happen and people die and the means is not always just or well thought out. I really think it's telling of U.S. society in that we are so eager to condemn based on evidence taken out of context. I think if there's any judging to do, it should be done by war vets, or their peers. People who have been through the experience of legalized murder; people who have been in conflict and forced to kill on command rather than value or principle.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
"[I] listened and lip-synced to Lady Gaga's 'Telephone' while exfiltrating possibly the largest data spillage in American history. Weak servers, weak logging, weak physical security, weak counter-intelligence, inattentive signal analysis... a perfect storm.
"Everywhere there's a U.S. post, there's a diplomatic scandal that will be revealed. It's open diplomacy. World-wide anarchy in CSV format.
"It's Climategate with a global scope, and breathtaking depth. It's beautiful, and horrifying." - SPC Bradley Manning
with prose like that i can't wait for the book. seriously.
- js.
While I like the idea on a visceral level, the "only veterans can judge" thing could never work in practice. There would be far too much room for abuse and collusion, just like the "blue line of silence" shown by police officials towards internal corruption. This is the real world, and not Starship Troopers. A jury of randomly selected ordinary citizens is shown the evidence, and determine if a supposed crime was an accident, negligence, or willful action. That's the system, and it needs to be applied here.
"Kudos for him, I wish I had that kind of self sacrificing will."
No kudos for the method, and the attention whoring that got him busted. There may have been no wish to self-sacrifice at all.
It is possible to do a thing that is considered good yet not have noble or entirely noble motives. The opinion of his actions seems predicated on one's opinion of the war itself (which is where much of the discussion is going) and not on why he did what he did.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
“I would come in with music on a CD-RW labeled with something like ‘Lady Gaga’, erase the music then write a compressed split file,” he wrote. “No one suspected a thing and, odds are, they never will.” “[I] listened and lip-synced to Lady Gaga’s ‘Telephone’ while exfiltrating possibly the largest data spillage in American history,” he added later. ”Weak servers, weak logging, weak physical security, weak counter-intelligence, inattentive signal analysis a perfect storm.”
!??!?!?
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
What I don't understand, is how did this analyst have access to 260,000 classified US Embassy Cables?
The entire story sounds like a System Administrator browsing the directories of a Microsoft Windows Server and Microsoft Exchange Email Server. With full administrative privileges, it is straightforward to find embarrassing documents, even on corporate servers. Can the U.S. Military be storing highly secret information on a regular servers viewable by everyone with Administrative privileges?
Oh, wait! EDS (HP) provides computers to the Department of Defense under an outsourcing agreement, and requires everyone to use Microsoft Windows. Maybe cracking US military command really is as easy as finding a young officer with Administrative privileges ...
Whether or not the guy deserves punishment is debatable, but he didn't deserve to be ratted out by the likes of Adrian Lamo. If Adrian felt a danger by possessing the information, he should have told him to shut up and burned the logs. Keep a naughty file and printing it out for the Feds is slimy business. It would have been better to remain neutral in this case. It isn't as if Lamo came onto this knowledge naturally. The guy sought him out for counsel/advice. Instead of that, he kept a recorder going and turned him in. What a sleezeball. He could have at LEAST told him to run for it first.
*sigh*
If you use single source information yes it can be 'hard' to find things out. But you can take several source and create a real picture of what is going on.
For example on one database I could say my zip code. That gives you a few square miles I probably am in.
On the next database I say I am white. That culls out 50% of the population in that zip code.
I post on facebook (not looking up the info on facebook just the fact that I do). That means I have an internet connection. That culls out another 50%. I have a model 2000 year car (not even saying what kind it is). That lets me use another data base to narrow in. etc etc etc...
With that information you probably could get it down to who I am and where I live right down to the house number and my phone number which I never gave you. Hit the right db and you probably could get my SSN.
So while it is classified now. It will not remain so for long. The intelligence guys are not stupid. You do not give your enemies *ANYTHING*. You seriously do not know what little bit of intel could give something away. Information is a weapon. You do not hand a loaded weapon to your enemy.
Nooooooow before you go off blasting what I am saying. Maybe there are coverups going on and yes they should be looked at. But by dumping all that info onto the internet puts people who had *NOTHING* to do with it in danger.
I would rather a mass murderer go free than condemn an innocent man.
Unless you are very sophisticated with proxies you will leave tracks the FBI/NSA can easily discover. Like those guys arrestd at Kennedy Airport yesterday for watching terror promotion videos on the web. Like the NSA is not keeping track those who download that stuff. So naive.
Traitors should be tried and EXECUTED period
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The group in the van were grabbing bodies AND weapons, they are part of the conflict.
They should have left the down personnel alone. Only idiots OR co-combatants do this
type of stuff.
For the last fifty years the only "wars" we've been involved with were to line the pockets of oligarchs and/or push the agendas of lawmakers in their pockets. who gives a shit what the grunts bleeding and dying to do their bidding think?
This video wasn't Top Secret. It was merelyy CLASSIFIED as TS so that it could be hidden. There was no other reason for its classification.
If they didn't know there were children there why did they say "serves him right for bringing his kids into a war zone."
?
Also, they knew there were more people in there and if they couldn't see them well enough to tell they were children, how could they see them well enough to tell they are not civilian?
Have you read what treasonous is? Manning's work is NOT treason. The activities shown by that video is treason. Government for the people by the people, and protecting against enemies foreign and domestic are REQUIREMENTS of someone signing up to military or government life. therefore releasing it is the PATRIOTIC thing to do.
"he continued on, planning to give an outsider unfettered access to potentially sensitive information "
given the amount of information that is set to Top Secret (ACTA negotiations, WMD documents, et al) that should never had been, the TS designation is bullshit. That something released is "potentially sensitive" shows that even you think it's BS. If it's Top Secret, there should be NO "potentially" about it.
In my opinion this man is a hero in the true spirit of our country and the freedom and promise that it used to represent.
In response to bl8n8r - This wasn't that sort of scenario, where they were under fire - I would never second guess a solider on the battlefield who is under fire; mistakes happen, civilians die unfortunately, that is part of war and something we've gotten better at avoiding. This was not that sort of situation, had it been, I am quite sure nobody would have risked their career and freedom to leak it.
It was definitely unprofessional conduct, and at worst murder. Those soliders were sloppy and trigger happy and they killed children, good samaritans, and a reporter as a result - and if it had happened to you, your family, or friends the people who think it's no big deal would feel a lot differently.
The other thing is that we shouldn't even have gone over there in the first place. It wasn't legal, it wasn't right, and our soliders deserve far better than to risk their lives for such bullshit.
If WW2 showed us anything, it was people are capable of atrocities if ordered to do so. Read the book "Ordinary Men" (I think that was what it was called). Almost to a man, the excuse will be "I was ordered to do so, I was doing my duty".
If we took anything away from that war that was positive it was even within a strict command structure, one does not have to follow orders he believes to be illegal. I think you can also extend that to information. If you know of something that went on that you felt was illegal, I think you are OBLIGATED to report that information. I have no idea if this guy tried to use the usual channels of communication to report this incident, but I don't think it is a bit stretch that if he did, that the proof would "disappear" and he would be "reassigned". He may have felt he had NO choice but take the action he did, in good conscience.
Now, it is also reasonable to say if you refuse what you think is an illegal order, or release information in the way he did, there will be a price to pay. There would certainly be an military court decision, that would say one way or another, if you made the right choice. Likely regardless your life as a military professional would be over no matter what, a sad, but likely true outcome.
However even with that, years later when shit might be going down, you can say with some self respect, that you did no follow that order you believed to be wrong, or that you tried to let people know the truth at your own personal cost. "I was just following orders" is a horrible thing to say, though even I can have some empathy when the outcome was they would be shot for not following orders.
Anyway as someone who isn't in the military, I am glad someone like that was in it, and I think he thought he was doing the right thing. He will be judged one way or another, and likely we don't have all the facts, but I would hope that if nothing untoward complicates the issue that the military court will absolve him, maybe even give him a medal (and then likely discharge him). I also think that as much as this is bad PR for the Army, it is also potential good PR. As I don't think anyone is too surprised that this sort illegal action or accident took place, however I know I would feel more comfortable, and confident knowing that there are good people within the Army that are also trying to do the right thing.
The kids, they are dead because their parents brought them to war.
The kids survived, which is even mentioned in the video. Also I would like to see that video where the van is dropping off the the men, as that neither happens in the commented version nor in the unedited one.
The lives of those civilians are just as valuable as those of the soldiers. As not an American citizen, I get disgusted every time someone wants to put a soldier's life over a civilian's life. Or an American's life over any other person's life. They're all people.
In fact, soldiers put themselves in harms way voluntarily. They have a choice. Civilians caught in the middle don't, and they need to be protected as much as possible. Soldiers of an occupation force that want to protect themselves, can go home.
If the coverage wasn't fair, then someone needs to release the unedited, full context videos.
We are all God's parents.
noone said standing up and doing the right thing is easy.
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
... that is called "treason" in a time of war. I have seen both videos, as well as other, similar, videos and everything looked fine to me. It is well known that insurgents use children - just like the Vietnamese did in Vietnam, mostly because they can depend on it being shown on American TV.
The guy leaking this information was aiding, and abetting the enemy - it is as simple as that. He voluntarily joined the military, then proceeded to violate the trust they placed in him.
As to the journalists being killed - good. They were hanging with the enemy, so if they get off'ed, all I can say is "good riddance".
What a greasy shit. Check out his wikipedia:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Lamo
"refused to give blood because of the book of Genesis"
Sounds like a real shit head.
peace to the allies of democracy. in any command structure, order is necessary to properly execute strategy in an efficient and timely matter. anyone who disturbs that time-structure must be assessed and transferred to an appropriate post immediately. when lives are at stake we must take our tradecraft seriously. if the young man wanted to vent his frustration, give him a punching bag, some scotch and a lay for the night. why must he put the trade of intelligence at risk for petty ignorances? perhaps it is a sign of the times; maybe the old guard isn't as quick and nimble as they purport. i don't know. what i do know is, the industry of intelligence is not to be taken lightly. p.s. i thought taco retired? i'm out of the loop.
Only if you accept this game-theoretic scam called "two-party system" as having something to do with democracy.
Having served, all I can say is that this young man is either an idiot, or his beliefs were strong enough he felt the consequences were worth it. Regardless what right and wrong are on in the videos and documents he disclosed, this young man will bear the full consequences for his actions. One can only hope he is comfortable with trading his freedom or even his life for disclosing what he did, because it was a federal felony, a violation of the UCMJ and likely will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
-- $G
I lived in Guatemala during the US created war for cheap BANNANAS-- I was a child. The tortures, death squads, and disappearances went right through the 1980s... the chaos did not end after the US installed the dictator in 1954 (replaced the democratically elected president)-- the misery had only just begun.
I have a very anti-war bias. And an anti-US imperialism bias (right up front)
I watched those videos AND listened to the interviews of witnesses. The takeaway was that this was normal operating procedure. If it moves, kill it. They are only brown children / non-christian children, so it is OK.
I have also listened to the testimony of many about the (common) incidents of US military violence against civilians. I read the reports of US extra-judicial assassination orders from the current administration against US citizens and foreign nationals. Obamma the slayer of innocents is now responsible for more wedding parties being bombed by unmanned drones in Afghanistan than even Bush the barbarian in his entire term. It is not a few bad apples.
The US official policy is to devalue all non-white+christian life. The US is the largest source of misery in the word today, 10yrs ago, 2 decades ago, 3 decades ago...
What exactly is an Ex-Hacker? That's not exactly a legit way making it into the workforce so doing or not doing just becomes something he decides to say or what? I'm I also assuming By saying Ex-Hacker we're assuming Hacking the a malicious context?
You know what endangers the lives of American and Nato soldiers? Murdering the very people we're supposed to be protecting.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Actually for espionage, jail, yes. However, the penalty can be death.
I wonder if they can charge him for the release of the video, which was one breach and then the release of the 250,000 memos... or will they charge him with 250,001 charges? Or just the stuff that is actually listed as classified and higher?
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General James Mattis
No, you take an oath to obey your commanding officer. You do what you're told without question.
Why does this say unprovoked? I watched the full video. The news crew was with dudes that looked like they had guns. One dude was even confirmed by radio with the troops on the ground to have an RPG under his dead body (supposedly a big camera that really was pointed at the helicopter!) They got permission to engage and did. I would have done the same shit!
smash crack bammm BOOM laying on the ground almost dead and bleeding everywhere the guy looks up. BUT its the context you need to understand
Yeah, since the release of that documents many soldiers have been killed, undoubtedly because of all that top secret information in those documents. Or were they just present when a IED went off? Come on, everybody knows 90% of these documents were just classified "secret" just in case and the other 10% were classified secret to cover up.
You think some Iraqi insurgent is going over 250K documents (think about it, all marked secret?) just to find Joe Jarhead to blow him up? It's not like they are impossible to find or anything.
really, you are.
There are two major Army regulations and one DOD directive that cover this sort of thing (use of media, access control, etc) and local SOPs built on those regulations. any IA office can tell you what they are off the top of their heads because they are basically the Army IA bible.
there are multiple and INCREDIBLY COMPREHENSIVE inspections and accreditations that must be passed and signed off on for a network to be operational (i was involved in a particular one that was the SECOND of FOURTY to have passed on the first try).
let me tell you, the Army is way TOO secure in a lot of ways; ways that make people's jobs more difficult for absolutely no benefit in security posture. incidents like this and the afganistan thumb drive spillage drive the higher-ups to shove aside well thought-out policies that some people fail to enforce and implement simple and draconian quick-fix policies like "no external media whatsoever" that some people will STILL fail to enforce.
the problem is people, and while we do our best to make sure only the most trustworthy ones have access to sensitive or greater information, it can never be perfect.
For months the US military falsely insisted that they had absolutely nothing to do with the journalist's death. They repeatedly dismissed the allegation and even mocked the suggestion as silly Islamic paranoia. Only when evidence to the contrary came to light did they concede that they did kill the guy. Once the truth came out, they PR department instantly offered a new rationale for what transpired.
We see this all the time. The military spokespeople are bullshitting everybody to the maximum extent they can get away with. If a fact might reflect poorly on the USA military, then that fact is summarily covered up. The military spokespeople are hired liars whose job it is to portray our military efforts as benevolent.
One would think that with so many lies having been completely exposed over the years (their "non-involvement" in this killing being merely one of them), people would learn that the PR wing of the DoD is not a credible organization. Why is the new spin about the killing any more credible than the previous spin? It's hard to believe that, gosh, our soldiers had the best intentions when they killed that guy and the people who tried to rescue his body merely because the army said so. And yet, many people who should know better do believe the military. They bought into the false narrative that Pat Tillman was killed fighting the Taliban and that Jessica Lynch was some sort of Amazonian Rambo who was overrun by insurgents. All the lies that are casually fed to us every time a PR guy makes a statement. They believe all this shit. Are people just that gullible and stupid? Probably not. I think the USA just has legions of people who are willing (some eagerly so) to swallow the military's propaganda because they simplistically view the world as "us versus them". The US Army military represents "us". It's critics represent "them". And the fundamental truth is not important to them
I might be the odd man out here (in fact I know it) but this guy released all of the info on our undercover agents everywhere in the world putting them in harms way, and as far as I'm concerned they should hang him.
Look around. Get to know your generation. You're not cynical enough. You'll get there eventually.
If anything, we're seeing a shift from clueless sheep who care to clueless sheep who don't. Some have made the case that it wasn't invading barbarians that truly destroyed Rome, but the Colosseum. We're entertaining ourselves towards collective idiocy and eventual destruction.
I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
FYI:
I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
The way I read this, it's first the constitution, then obeying the orders of the P of U.S. and then the orders of officers above.
Apart from obviously not knowing if young man was involved or not in the leaks,
I wonder if killing unarmed civilians and the people who are trying to help them for entertainment is something the constitutions supports or not?
And, if targeting an entity revealing these criminal acts as a threat is something the constitution supports?
I would think the answers of these questions ought to determine his position as a hero or an enemy. And also the positions of the ones persecuting him.
This is pretty clear cut per U.S law - he divulged classified information period, he could/should receive serious jail time including life in prison - he could also be executed. After reading the article it sounds like he was a troubled young man craving attention.
After 17+ years on the Internet I don't have many 'firsts' anymore... This was one of them though!
No good deed goes unpunished. That pretty much covers it. I don't know what is worse. The slimy, repellent actions of this Lamo guy in betraying a hero to The Man or you pseudo-patriotic nationalists who believe: 1) America and its soldiers is always right. 2) In case of doubt and even in the face of direct evidence that the American Military are behaving like Nazis in WWII with a complete utter disregard for innocent human lives, please see rule one. If it weren't for this Manning guy, we would never have known about the atrocities committed in our name and you guys want to see him executed. You people disgust me. Go ahead and twist your mind like a pretzel to try to avoid the fact that there was no sign of any guns or rpgs. Those were unarmed civilians and even children that they were trying to kill with military hardware. I have seen a lot of violent nasty shit go down in movies, but I have never seen anything quite like that video. To think that those were real people. I wonder if those soldiers can sleep at night. They are no better than the gestapo. Those soldiers are the ones who should be executed. A public hanging would be nice.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Yeah its too bad they didn't have more data. That would prevent civilian deaths. It's like a video game. If you can pause then you will. We just need the new data of a pause button on the war. Then we can fight war perfectly, that is the goal of our nuclear silo operators and most other soldiers. They are just doing a good job. With guns. If we give them more information then they will kill less innocents.
That is how technology works and why we have had less murder the more technology we develop. Every century is less bloody than the previous. Human progress is a real science. Let's invest in it. Disney makes a great map of the world.
"The Universal Soldier, fighting for Peace"
Stupidity is its own reward.
Yes, only training will yield the appropriate moral opinions. Only experts can tell us what is wrong and right. The experts tell us that wikileaks is marginal and that objective news comes from embedded reporters. 8 years isn't long for a war, there was one that lasted 100 after all. "Blood Sweat and Iron" bring prosperity and peace to us all so we must use our Will to Power what is the best strategy and method to assess the targets...
(Or for those cultured in only the last 10 years, the appropriate sarcastic comment would be: AMERICA, FUCK YA!)
Stupidity is its own reward.
Clean up that war! Just remove some marginal "free speech" type websites. Also discredit the obvious validity of criticism with relativistic horseshit: "We are progressing to make war safer for everyone, we won't get it right until you send us more money and sons and daughters..."
What confuses me is how people like you stand up for such vile deeds without any compensation. Watched a lot of movies about the "Glory of War" have we?
Stupidity is its own reward.
I think you are on to something. But then I also meet a lot of people my own age and younger (I'm not so young anymore, merely wired) who are duped by all this anyway. There is also a lot of apathy among the younger "sophisticated" people who get their news from the internet.
Ultimately its about organisation and leadership. The truth is so demoralising to so many people that most political campaigns about it are only really complaining, rarely directing that shared opinion into something constructive which changes the system.
Part of it is that media machine which makes us think that speaking up in a CNN poll or some such is a substantive political act of rebellion, that rebellion will somehow intrinsically redirect the "bad guys" towards a higher moral ground etc. What we really need is to take power via direct action and only a small part of that can happen sitting in front of a flickering LCD panel. Also, we get riled up by things far away which are effectively out of our control but acquiesce on that in our front yard, like driving cars and voting with our dollars for the bargain slave labour goods.
I don't know, at least there is that truth floating around there somewhere on the internet still. Seems like as more and more of the internet is corporate-ized we see less of that badly designed webpage with important things to say and more of that selling almost nothing but really slick page...
Stupidity is its own reward.
Distance is the essence of modern warfare. We now have easier access to information but because it is far away we get overwhelmed and distracted by other information and also we don't know what to do about the war or what to believe.
The Sikh religion has a belief that one should fight their own battles rather than have others do it for them. Great idea anyway.
Stupidity is its own reward.
Did nobody else here notice that it was Adrian Lamo who called the cops? I know i probably haven't heard the whole story yet but i think i despise that little twit even more.
Yeah the more you say that "Seeing that might change the thoughts slightly on the pieces of video that were seen..." the more we believe it, please post it 12 more times. Oh wait, you already did?
As long as it looks like there is another "side" to the debate that is credible then our binary thinking minds will say: OK, the greay area is something in between not shooting people who aren't shooting you from a helicopter and the guy who makes excuses because of the helicopter not shooting everyone in sight.
Good point you make there, after all, the military has no ability to release video that shows them in a positive light, unlike wikileaks or people imprisoned in Kuwait.
Stupidity is its own reward.
Wikileaks released a long and a short version. I've watched both. There is no other version out there that is up front and lets you view the footage. The long version that they edited does NOT show a positive light on the actions. It's just slower and longer. If anything it is more damning because it disproves the lie that this was a "heat of the battle mistake" where they didn't have time to be more careful. They had a lot more time to decide than the edited version of the video shows and they STILL did what they did because that is what happens when you fly around in a helicopter with guns dangling out of it shooting at random dark people for cash. Add that the soldiers have no idea of their own safety and just want to survive, they might be shot by friendly fire after all - that happens a lot. And you get a situation that was very predictable murder, something that only sociopaths would excuse. Something that the individuals involved might get scapegoated for but the real culprit is untouchable.
Stupidity is its own reward.
"The Army is not in the business of "trying to not look bad."
"The military spends an *enormous* amount of time trying to gain and maintain domestic support for its activities abroad."
The point is that if the military actually had a video which made them look good they would certainly release it because their job is 90% propaganda (A gun isn't nearly as useful as the fear and obedience it inspires) They don't have a different video because there A) isn't one, or B) because they like the image conveyed by the "Collateral Murder" video. Don't discount that the military likes to appear bloodthirsty to certain parties. Obviously wikileaks hasn't inspired enough outrage to actually get the US out or Iraq.
Stupidity is its own reward.
"Come on. Seriously? You're acusing anti-war folks of being gullible?"
It doesn't matter how unlikely the argument is of convincing. The flak is just there to contain the debate and make it seem like the basic assumption (That we all have seen firsthand the wrongness of the American invasion of Iraq via the Collateral Murder video) is still open to question when it is not. That prevents us from moving on to action that would turn our sentiment into something useful. Like actually holding someone accountable. As it is we get caught up in the nonsense and allow the hero of the story (wikileaks guy) to get arrested and the murderer generals who orders those troops in the helicopter into that predictable civillian killing situation still walk free.
Stupidity is its own reward.
I didn't know that the kids survived. I recall reading the apology of the one soldier who wrote something about taking one of the kids out of the van to a medic. I thought they died. It's been a few weeks since I read up on this.
It's so sad that I got marked as a troll. What I posted was the truth as I saw on a video that had additional footage from the wikileaks video. I suppose people don't like to waste mod points on an AC. I'm not really an AC per se. I just don't need yet another account. Those soldiers in that helicopter performed exactly as would expect them to in an air support role for ground troops engaged in a firefight.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c1b_1270800204
Regards,
Jason
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Arseholes....
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Voting up, Voting down - If I really gave a fuck about your approval or not, I'd come and ask you.
I don't think that the insurgents need to see videos like this to get angry. The oath also covers domestic enemies regardless of whether or not that enemy is the grunt in the foxhole with you or your commander in chief. In my judgement IANAJBTW the US military has its fair share of domestic enemies amongst its ranks. sadly these enemies appear to be dual nationals/owe their allegiances to other states/have high positions (take your pick)
The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
In the video that van was dropping off 4-5 men with rifles and an RPG.
That is not visible in the video. You see the van in the beginning for a few seconds, but you don't see it dropping anybody of, its not even clear if it stops at all at that point.
Those soldiers in that helicopter performed exactly as would expect them to in an air support role for ground troops engaged in a firefight.
Yes, and that is exactly the problem. The US military follows a shot first, ask questions later doctrine. They had ground troops nearby that could have gone investigating, but they didn't, instead they just shot every body up, as it means they don't have to risk any troops of their own.
Even if we believe that everything that looks like an AK-47 actually is one, there weren't enough weapons in the group to arm half the men. If I am of into a firelight, I would at least take a gun with me and not casually walking along the street without one.
And the whole notion that this was a combat zone is also rather ridiculous, you see civilians walking all over the place in the beginning. In the CollateralMurder_full.mp4 you can at 12:10 even see a women and a child walk past the mess. If this was a hot combat zone, somebody forget to tell that to the people that life there.
Well, Manning sure has been less than smart. Lamo is a fucking jerk that deserves nothing but a spit in his face. I hope they still got something on him and get him jailed again. No more "free lamo" gifs for you this time, Adrian. You suck FBI dix.
And yet this video is not taken from the ground but from the air. and -no- shots are fired by those on the ground. Maybe they panicked bcea
If you dislike the Adrian Lamo, the guy that snitched him out, and have a Facebook, this is your group. http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/disliking-Adrian-Lamo/134442293236157
Consider this possibility:
The arrest in Kuwait is fake. There are no 260,000 documents. Assange is being setup for a US takedown. Lamo is a stooge. He's agreed to say whatever the US wants him to - thi swas the condition of his release when captured.
"One just can't go "rummaging through" compartmented files. Each person with access to a particular compartment would have to be individually cleared for that compartment.
Say the compartmented thing is a new spy plane that is designated with the codeword AAA. Bob works on one of the sensors that has the codeword AAA/BBB. Jim works on the avionics. That compartment is AAA/CCC. Bob, feeling bored one day, can't just go have a look at the AAA/CCC avionics data. He wouldn't have access. Jim, likewise, can't access the AAA/BBB sensor compartment."
http://cryptogon.com/?p=15843
The disinfo being generated in this story is multi-axial, and thicker than smoke...
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell