One last thing...you should never talk about any camera view other than the cockpit view if you are talking about a serious racing sim. Who cares if the bumper cam is off (and how would you know...have you drive your car from the bumper before).
Other than that, I enjoyed your post and will probably be buying an Xbox 360 and Forza, because I tried GT5 prologue and was underwhelmed, and frankly, I'm tired of waiting for something I'm starting to believe won't live up to the hype.
Oh yeah, and another thing, real racing sims don't fret about menu music choices, and you don't have to unlock cars or complete levels. Those things are very important for a casual game, but merely a distraction to developing a good sim.
As ridiculous as it sounds, you feel as if you really can feel the track / wheel traction just from a controller. The audio is very good at distinguishing traction, the rumble is just right and combined they work well.
Not ridiculous at all. "Real" racing sims are unplayable without audible cues. This goes back to one of the pioneers, Grand Prix Legends. Force feedback was a bit of a gimmick back then, but I don't know if it has actually matured to a level of improving the realism by giving drivers real cues to directional stability, because I haven't played a good racing sim since NASCAR2003.
All I see in your "superior open source competitor" is off-roading and trucks. That is not a competitor to sports cars on a racing circuit (unless Rigs of Rods has that as well).
I'll just go buy a 360 and get Forza. GT5 might be better than Forza, but at this rate, I'll never know. Being able to play something is better than waiting for something that might not even be as good as what I can play now.
The key word was undue importance. Perfect is the enemy of done, good engineers understand this.
I'm not asking for perfect. You seem to have a lower standard of "good enough" than I do, and I think the industry takes your side because it saves them money...it's an excuse for poor planning, design and execution.
Compared to "It's no good until the UI is perfect" which has lead to so much vapourware and poorly engineered products that its not funny.
Again, I'm not asking for perfect. I have a brand new house in an upper middle-class neighborhood (in the US), with brand new shiny expensive kitchen appliances...with the exception of the stove top and the fridge (they have no electronics input), the way you set the devices is terrible. Not asking for perfect, just asking for nice...or even customizable (like using an OS that is cheap and easy, like Android)
It was YOUR choice to buy that product. If YOU have requirements that aren't met by the market then perhaps YOU have a problem.
You are right. There is no choice in the market (because they all use the lazy engineer excuse you proved above..."gotta get it out the door", "good enough" etc. etc.) so none of the devices meet my "requirements". This is the entire reason I posted a response saying that the Android Applicances don't belong on the list of ridiculous devices.
But you keep waiting for Better(TM) rather then trying to adapt to the world around you.
No, I keep waiting for decent and acceptable. I'll completely ignore the part where you try to set it up to prove how much smarter you are than me when it comes to using a washing machine and just tell you that you are the fool for adapting to your limitations instead of pushing forward and making the world a better place.
I think not, you were complaining on how ordinary devices arent good enough for your high interface standards,
You still completely miss my point because you injected your own engineering biases into the interpretation of what I wrote, as opposed to what I mean. I'll say it again, it's not perfection I seek. I merely posit that consumer appliances lag far behind other things in our lives due to consumer complacency, not because the high and mighty engineer should dictate what a consumer needs (or even wants) in their own house.
However it appears you missed the point of my post that is a well engineered product with a bad interface will sell as it works, a poorly engineered product with a good interface will fail as it doesn't do what people need it to. Engineering trumps interface, it always has and always will.
You are making an argument where there is none. You have set up a false dichotomy in your statement though. The reason kitchen appliances with lousy interfaces sell is because the ALL have lousy interfaces and there is no competition to make it better. Nobody says that a device can either be well engineered with a bad interface, or have a good interface but poorly engineered. Why not a decent interface that is tested thoroughly. Better yet, why do engineers so easily dismiss the interface (and I know the answer, because in your world, it doesn't affect the requirements) when it is a key component in the overall engineering design.
Why do I put importance on the usability of something I use everyday? Is that a serious question?
If my appliances had a "I just want it to work today" button, I'd be extremely happy. Instead, I get microwaves that decides when I push the 1 key, I want a 1 minute warm up, or another microwave that thinks 1 means a 1 second warm up...neither of which actually let me choose what 1 actually means.
"They still do the job" is the same complacency that gives us crappy Microsoft operating systems and office suites, bad American cars, and coffee machines like my crappy Mr. Coffee that has a 10 cup pot, but holds 12 cups of water...every time it overflows by 2 cups it reminds me of why usability, attention to detail, and functionality matter. ESPECIALLY when it is MY money spent on things I use EVERY STINKING day.
You keep using your crap...I want better, thanks.
Besides, you missed the entire point of my post. There is NOTHING mutually exclusive about good function and good form. Just because something functions well doesn't mean we have to give it a pass on the interface. What I'm saying is that a simple, clean interface like Android would make everything better for very little (if any) cost.
Agreed. There is being tough and then there is just being stupid.
For a good example, read the Dale Earnhardt Sr. autopsy reports of how he died, and how it would have been prevented had he used a full-faced helmet instead of his tough-guy 50s era helmet. (Hint: his seat belt failed slightly, allowing his face to proceed forward into the steering wheel, which shoved his jaw bone into the base of his skull, severing his spine.)
I personally believe (and have a spouse I suspect is Asperger-y) that there are varying degrees of Aspberger's from the casually kooky to the clinical diagnosis. In any case, I think calling it a syndrome or a disorder stigmatizes those with Asperger's. It makes it sound like something that is bad, when it isn't--it's just different.
I had a friend growing up who was "hyperactive". He's now enjoying his 18th year as a US Navy SEAL. He found the appropriate outlet, and it wasn't in the form of unpronounceable pharmaceutical.
Yes, because I'm sure the "right amount of pain" will NEVER lead to emotional pain over the long run.
The only time I smack my kids IS with a bare hand and only in anger. Why the hell would anyone hit their kid with a heavy blunt object when they WEREN'T angry at them?
Uh, I ride a bike and wear a helmet and I'm NOT a kid. You can't control being hit by an inattentive driver, but you can control (to an extent) the amount of head trauma you receive.
It's a simple tradeoff. There's not a great chance I'll be hit by a car, but if I am and I'm NOT wearing a helmet, there's a good chance I die. Simply putting on a helmet increases my chances of survival in the unlikely event of getting hit.
Then there's the whole issue that small kids don't have very good control over their bike so they have a greater chance of crashing...not to mention their lack responsibility (which also leads to higher chance of being hit or crashing).
Simply put, railing against helmets on bikes is pretty dumb. I'm not even saying that NOT wearing a helmet is dumb, only that people who rail against the idea of wearing a helmet make no sense to me.
Agree 100% on the ADHD over-medication, but America in general is over-medicated (drug store on every corner). We are a nation of hypochondriacs. This is not limited to letting kids be kids.
I completely disagree with the Android microwave being on this list. I wish ANY of my appliances had a usable/customizable interface. Putting Android on my appliances would be a progressive first step into improving my appliances!
This is seriously one of my largest pet-peeves in life. Why do we give washer/dryers/ovens etc. a pass when it comes to usability? Why are most microwaves and ranges counter-intuitive?
Finally, wouldn't this sort of open design decrease production costs? Without the need for an embedded OS that is specific to the hardware configuration on which it resides, a single open system could be developed that could be put on all appliances then customized to control the one it currently resides on.
I think you oversimplified the problem. There are "professional" email hosting services that are free. You don't have to pay money for a professional host. Some people, however, demonstrate poor judgment and choose free ones that reflect negatively on a job application, is all.
Maybe people have a bias against gmail, but far fewer people in the tech industry have a bias against gmail. It's important to be "up to speed" on the tools of the industry you want to participate in, but if you are dabbling in ridiculously bad email clients like Hotmail, then you are demonstrating poor judgment in tech issues and probably aren't suited for a tech job.
Using myname@hotmail.com is akin to hosting your resume on your Myspace page.
I wanted to switch to gmail, but they insist on a stupidly arbitrary six-character minimum for your user name. I've used my five-character nickname since forever, but with gmail, I'd have to add a 1 or something dumb that wouldn't work.
Slashdot Mirror
One last thing...you should never talk about any camera view other than the cockpit view if you are talking about a serious racing sim. Who cares if the bumper cam is off (and how would you know...have you drive your car from the bumper before).
Other than that, I enjoyed your post and will probably be buying an Xbox 360 and Forza, because I tried GT5 prologue and was underwhelmed, and frankly, I'm tired of waiting for something I'm starting to believe won't live up to the hype.
Oh yeah, and another thing, real racing sims don't fret about menu music choices, and you don't have to unlock cars or complete levels. Those things are very important for a casual game, but merely a distraction to developing a good sim.
As ridiculous as it sounds, you feel as if you really can feel the track / wheel traction just from a controller. The audio is very good at distinguishing traction, the rumble is just right and combined they work well.
Not ridiculous at all. "Real" racing sims are unplayable without audible cues. This goes back to one of the pioneers, Grand Prix Legends. Force feedback was a bit of a gimmick back then, but I don't know if it has actually matured to a level of improving the realism by giving drivers real cues to directional stability, because I haven't played a good racing sim since NASCAR2003.
"Groop I implore thee!"
All I see in your "superior open source competitor" is off-roading and trucks. That is not a competitor to sports cars on a racing circuit (unless Rigs of Rods has that as well).
I'll just go buy a 360 and get Forza. GT5 might be better than Forza, but at this rate, I'll never know. Being able to play something is better than waiting for something that might not even be as good as what I can play now.
The key word was undue importance. Perfect is the enemy of done, good engineers understand this.
I'm not asking for perfect. You seem to have a lower standard of "good enough" than I do, and I think the industry takes your side because it saves them money...it's an excuse for poor planning, design and execution.
Again, I'm not asking for perfect. I have a brand new house in an upper middle-class neighborhood (in the US), with brand new shiny expensive kitchen appliances...with the exception of the stove top and the fridge (they have no electronics input), the way you set the devices is terrible. Not asking for perfect, just asking for nice...or even customizable (like using an OS that is cheap and easy, like Android)
It was YOUR choice to buy that product. If YOU have requirements that aren't met by the market then perhaps YOU have a problem.
You are right. There is no choice in the market (because they all use the lazy engineer excuse you proved above..."gotta get it out the door", "good enough" etc. etc.) so none of the devices meet my "requirements". This is the entire reason I posted a response saying that the Android Applicances don't belong on the list of ridiculous devices.
But you keep waiting for Better(TM) rather then trying to adapt to the world around you.
No, I keep waiting for decent and acceptable. I'll completely ignore the part where you try to set it up to prove how much smarter you are than me when it comes to using a washing machine and just tell you that you are the fool for adapting to your limitations instead of pushing forward and making the world a better place.
I think not, you were complaining on how ordinary devices arent good enough for your high interface standards,
You still completely miss my point because you injected your own engineering biases into the interpretation of what I wrote, as opposed to what I mean. I'll say it again, it's not perfection I seek. I merely posit that consumer appliances lag far behind other things in our lives due to consumer complacency, not because the high and mighty engineer should dictate what a consumer needs (or even wants) in their own house.
However it appears you missed the point of my post that is a well engineered product with a bad interface will sell as it works, a poorly engineered product with a good interface will fail as it doesn't do what people need it to. Engineering trumps interface, it always has and always will.
You are making an argument where there is none. You have set up a false dichotomy in your statement though. The reason kitchen appliances with lousy interfaces sell is because the ALL have lousy interfaces and there is no competition to make it better. Nobody says that a device can either be well engineered with a bad interface, or have a good interface but poorly engineered. Why not a decent interface that is tested thoroughly. Better yet, why do engineers so easily dismiss the interface (and I know the answer, because in your world, it doesn't affect the requirements) when it is a key component in the overall engineering design.
Why do I put importance on the usability of something I use everyday? Is that a serious question?
If my appliances had a "I just want it to work today" button, I'd be extremely happy. Instead, I get microwaves that decides when I push the 1 key, I want a 1 minute warm up, or another microwave that thinks 1 means a 1 second warm up...neither of which actually let me choose what 1 actually means.
"They still do the job" is the same complacency that gives us crappy Microsoft operating systems and office suites, bad American cars, and coffee machines like my crappy Mr. Coffee that has a 10 cup pot, but holds 12 cups of water...every time it overflows by 2 cups it reminds me of why usability, attention to detail, and functionality matter. ESPECIALLY when it is MY money spent on things I use EVERY STINKING day.
You keep using your crap...I want better, thanks.
Besides, you missed the entire point of my post. There is NOTHING mutually exclusive about good function and good form. Just because something functions well doesn't mean we have to give it a pass on the interface. What I'm saying is that a simple, clean interface like Android would make everything better for very little (if any) cost.
I own a cycle helmet. I wear it if I'm doing something with an increased risk of falling off,
Me too, like when riding my bike in traffic (i.e. 99% of the time)
Agreed. There is being tough and then there is just being stupid.
For a good example, read the Dale Earnhardt Sr. autopsy reports of how he died, and how it would have been prevented had he used a full-faced helmet instead of his tough-guy 50s era helmet. (Hint: his seat belt failed slightly, allowing his face to proceed forward into the steering wheel, which shoved his jaw bone into the base of his skull, severing his spine.)
Yet for some odd reason we rode our bikes and are still alive. Do kids these days have softer skulls or what changed?
Or is it just that we're The 70s Generation, the indistructible ones!
May I copy and paste your post as an example for a new wiki entry on "LOGICAL FALLACIES"?
Asshole Disorder...tee hee.
I personally believe (and have a spouse I suspect is Asperger-y) that there are varying degrees of Aspberger's from the casually kooky to the clinical diagnosis. In any case, I think calling it a syndrome or a disorder stigmatizes those with Asperger's. It makes it sound like something that is bad, when it isn't--it's just different.
I had a friend growing up who was "hyperactive". He's now enjoying his 18th year as a US Navy SEAL. He found the appropriate outlet, and it wasn't in the form of unpronounceable pharmaceutical.
Yes, because I'm sure the "right amount of pain" will NEVER lead to emotional pain over the long run.
The only time I smack my kids IS with a bare hand and only in anger. Why the hell would anyone hit their kid with a heavy blunt object when they WEREN'T angry at them?
Yeah. Fucking pharmaceuticals and insurance companies bilking parents and kids
Fixed that for you.
Uh, I ride a bike and wear a helmet and I'm NOT a kid. You can't control being hit by an inattentive driver, but you can control (to an extent) the amount of head trauma you receive.
It's a simple tradeoff. There's not a great chance I'll be hit by a car, but if I am and I'm NOT wearing a helmet, there's a good chance I die. Simply putting on a helmet increases my chances of survival in the unlikely event of getting hit.
Then there's the whole issue that small kids don't have very good control over their bike so they have a greater chance of crashing...not to mention their lack responsibility (which also leads to higher chance of being hit or crashing).
Simply put, railing against helmets on bikes is pretty dumb. I'm not even saying that NOT wearing a helmet is dumb, only that people who rail against the idea of wearing a helmet make no sense to me.
Agree 100% on the ADHD over-medication, but America in general is over-medicated (drug store on every corner). We are a nation of hypochondriacs. This is not limited to letting kids be kids.
I blame AFI and the rest of the wimp-ass wrist cutters, not the economy.
I completely disagree with the Android microwave being on this list. I wish ANY of my appliances had a usable/customizable interface. Putting Android on my appliances would be a progressive first step into improving my appliances!
This is seriously one of my largest pet-peeves in life. Why do we give washer/dryers/ovens etc. a pass when it comes to usability? Why are most microwaves and ranges counter-intuitive?
Finally, wouldn't this sort of open design decrease production costs? Without the need for an embedded OS that is specific to the hardware configuration on which it resides, a single open system could be developed that could be put on all appliances then customized to control the one it currently resides on.
Either that, or I like to use "stewbacca" for informal things like slashdot and video game usernames, but would never use it for a school or employer.
Already taken...
...or if they drive a 1993 Oldsmobile Cutlass Sierra, for example.
I think you oversimplified the problem. There are "professional" email hosting services that are free. You don't have to pay money for a professional host. Some people, however, demonstrate poor judgment and choose free ones that reflect negatively on a job application, is all.
Maybe people have a bias against gmail, but far fewer people in the tech industry have a bias against gmail. It's important to be "up to speed" on the tools of the industry you want to participate in, but if you are dabbling in ridiculously bad email clients like Hotmail, then you are demonstrating poor judgment in tech issues and probably aren't suited for a tech job.
Using myname@hotmail.com is akin to hosting your resume on your Myspace page.
No, they probably found jobs not in the tech field. Nothing wrong with AOL email if you aren't pretending to be tech savvy.
I wanted to switch to gmail, but they insist on a stupidly arbitrary six-character minimum for your user name. I've used my five-character nickname since forever, but with gmail, I'd have to add a 1 or something dumb that wouldn't work.