Umm.. wrong. Anyone can build an rpm or a deb. MOST apps not in the repos of your distro have an rpm or a deb. If they don't its BECAUSE they're not ready yet, not because "someone doesn't like them". See the whole point is the tools are out there for everyone to freely use. See, freedom.
The reason the devs haven't packaged it yet, is because they're busy.... developing it until its ready for general consumption (ie packaging).
If you have the skill and the time, you can usually get these dev projects running yourself. Then, as it approaches readiness, which you'll know from using it.. you can get off your lazy ass and help package it.
I gave up on that one too via the USB dongle I had. It was a non standard interface (as there is a standard for S/PDIF over USB) so I just chucked it, it was only $20 when I bought it, and the drivers sucked under Windows too.
For standard stuff, though, you really shouldn't have to touch it.
You should run it on Dapper (the LTS release). They have an installer package for it. You need a dedicated server (or VM as I have) for it, since it installs its own versions of packages.
Give it a whirl on Dapper, I got it running on 7.04, but there were some hacks that aren't pretty that I had to do, but I was already far enough in that I didn't want to rebuild the VM as a Dapper machine.
I am using it as my personal email and calendaring server, and really like it. I use Thunderbird with the Lightning plugin as my desktop client, but I hear the integration with Outlook is REALLY good (better than with T-Bird as that's what the dev team focuses on).
Anyhow, just plugging a solution I personally use and like.
Proprietary driver manager pops up, asks you if you want to install the driver and d/l the firmware, auto installs it and network manager pops up to connect. Easier than in windoze.
ALSA/OSS:
These days the only time you'd ever need to mess with these settings is to
a) record something using either USB or built in mic's. Record something in windows without messing with a control panel.
b) use it with an app installed through wine, and even then not so often.
I know there are a lot of people who did, because I was d/l'ing some packages this morning to install a plugin and getting shit for throughput from canonical's repos.
I specifically said hooked up to a public interface, in which case, guess what, the internet is the same subnet as you. You obviously know squat about networking, thus need Zeroconf, aka Rendezvous, aka Avahi. I'm quite aware that on a subnet nothing gets routed out from avahi, WHICH IS WHY I SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED A PUBLIC INTERFACE.
This message has been brought to you by the committee for reading messages you're responding to.
I believe this translates to: DON'T EVER HOOK THIS UP TO A PUBLIC INTERFACE.
Why would they make avahi/bonujour/rendezvous on by default? If you hook that up to a public interface (ie directly to your cable modem) you're screaming to the internet: "hey there, here's some resources you can use to get into my box"
Is it just me, or is this an big invitation to script kiddies?
Just because its not on the webpage you're looking at doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Contact Dell's business sales, and you'll get their pricing for a barebones system, contact microsoft and you'll get support.
I'm talking about how an Enterprise would actually purchase a system, not some dumbass clicking a button on Dell's webpage.
Completely medialess DVD collection. On demand TV that I never need to worry about clearing up space on. That's what I'll use it for, I was looking at building a RAID to get this amount of space, now I just need 2 drives (mirrored).
So, what's the price for the Microsoft support contract? Compare apples to apples now. The software is free on the linux side. The support isn't. The software and support aren't free on the Microsoft side, so pull the numbers for Microsoft to offer the same level of enterprise support to a server deployment.
I can sometwhat determine in their "Detailed Microsoft Pricing" that their "Essential Support" for a small deployment is $8000/year, for "Premier Support" you're talking $50,000. For clarity, for the server deployments they were talking about, that was $300/license on the essential and $100/license on the Premier since it was a larger deployment. So add that to you $799.
I sure would like an extra ethernet port on it, though. Would make a GREAT 3 homed firewall box so I can use the box I've got as my router/firewall/dns/dhcp server for something real (it is, after all a low end first gen p4, it could server SOMETHING).
Different posters, read UID on a message board to keep an eye on who you're responding to. Then again, if you can't keep track of that, and your points are nullified by the basic operation of the mod system, what do the details matter?
And I've honestly had only a handful of problems on the betas. That's why I'm willing to put my main personal laptop in the line of fire for Beta testing. I know a thing or two will break, but I also know that I'm helping to keep the release versions trouble free for those that want to use them. Especially given how often I install custom compiled unstable versions of stuff that's also in the repos, I feel like my little amd_64 laptop is making a bit of a contribution in making sure that the newer package schemes (which they seem to tweak at every release) sort out the obscure.
I did find a great tool for when I want to install "roll-your-own" stuff on Ubuntu. checkinstall. It creates a.deb with a little input from you. You can make it as simple as faking it so there's no dependencies and just putting it in with a version number so it can be uninstalled through synaptic/dpkg, or you can list the dependent packages so that you don't break with an upgrade. Rather nice tool.
But I digress. My only point was that on released versions with rather up to date packages, Ubuntu manages dependencies VERY well. I got really tired of having to be on the unstable branch in gentoo (which ubuntu is debian unstable with a six month release cycle and more bells and whistles) which broke like clockwork at every update I tried.
I want to use my computer, not constantly configure it. I can tweak as much as I like in Ubuntu, I just don't HAVE to. That's the main thing that people seem to misunderstand in Ubuntu. Yes, its a binary distro by default. But nothing stops you from rolling your own packages and installing whatever you want. No matter how deep you get into the system, its still linux, and you can still tweak and replace whatever you like. And its less finicky than Gentoo is about resolving dependencies when you do it. Also, the default choices tend to be pretty good for whatever it is you're trying to do.
Now, that said, I wouldn't use it to try and build an embedded system, that's REALLY where gentoo shines. Something that you're going to build once, needs a SMALL footprint, needs lots of tweaking to get it JUST RIGHT, and you're not going to need to update it terribly often.
Gutsy == Beta, which I specifically mentioned not in Beta in my comment. You really can't complain about packaging stuff when you're the one testing it to make sure its packaged right. That's why they have betas. File the bug.
Well, Gentoo is your golden child for believing that updates need to break the system. That's why I left it. When not running beta (ie 5 out of the 6 months of their release cycle) I've had NOTHING break on a DESKTOP system.
On the server side, I generally update my 6.06 boxen once a month or so, and the worst of it has been rebooting due to a small kernel rev. No muss, no fuss.
Gentoo OTOH, was a nightmare with system dependencies breaking inside the package manager. So I don't see the piming of Gentoo as somehow superior, it breaks shit all the time.
They may be the phone company, but around here for internet service, they have some pretty stiff competition, (my ISP which is the cable company, another Cable Modem provider that's strangely not a cable company, dish which i know sucks but is there). The ISP I'm with kicks their but for speed/price, so that's who I chose, but the fact is that unlike most areas for phone service, there are options for your ISP.
So they do have to care a little. Granted, cable companies are no gems when it comes to customer service, but as expected, their ISP customer service is far better than their television customer service, as they have competition in that market.
I was indicating that I didn't know, but I doubt that they worked around it, since it would be a workaround specific to one piece of hardware, I thought that was quite clear given the question and response. Silly me for using language that indicated which option I was addressing (both really)
I would kind of doubt that.. its sending information on a masked interrupt at a hardware level. Either way any workaround is just that, and is dirty since its specific to a chipset.
Slashdot Mirror
Umm.. wrong. Anyone can build an rpm or a deb. MOST apps not in the repos of your distro have an rpm or a deb. If they don't its BECAUSE they're not ready yet, not because "someone doesn't like them". See the whole point is the tools are out there for everyone to freely use. See, freedom.
The reason the devs haven't packaged it yet, is because they're busy.... developing it until its ready for general consumption (ie packaging).
If you have the skill and the time, you can usually get these dev projects running yourself. Then, as it approaches readiness, which you'll know from using it.. you can get off your lazy ass and help package it.
STOP BEING A WHINY LEECH.
I gave up on that one too via the USB dongle I had. It was a non standard interface (as there is a standard for S/PDIF over USB) so I just chucked it, it was only $20 when I bought it, and the drivers sucked under Windows too.
For standard stuff, though, you really shouldn't have to touch it.
Its called a network cable.
You should run it on Dapper (the LTS release). They have an installer package for it. You need a dedicated server (or VM as I have) for it, since it installs its own versions of packages.
Give it a whirl on Dapper, I got it running on 7.04, but there were some hacks that aren't pretty that I had to do, but I was already far enough in that I didn't want to rebuild the VM as a Dapper machine.
I am using it as my personal email and calendaring server, and really like it. I use Thunderbird with the Lightning plugin as my desktop client, but I hear the integration with Outlook is REALLY good (better than with T-Bird as that's what the dev team focuses on).
Anyhow, just plugging a solution I personally use and like.
how about: http://www.zimbra.com/ http://www.citadel.org/
Broadcom:
Proprietary driver manager pops up, asks you if you want to install the driver and d/l the firmware, auto installs it and network manager pops up to connect. Easier than in windoze.
ALSA/OSS:
These days the only time you'd ever need to mess with these settings is to
a) record something using either USB or built in mic's. Record something in windows without messing with a control panel.
b) use it with an app installed through wine, and even then not so often.
So write one.
http://wubi-installer.org/
easy as pie (granted I haven't done it, but its supposed to be slick)
I know there are a lot of people who did, because I was d/l'ing some packages this morning to install a plugin and getting shit for throughput from canonical's repos.
I specifically said hooked up to a public interface, in which case, guess what, the internet is the same subnet as you. You obviously know squat about networking, thus need Zeroconf, aka Rendezvous, aka Avahi. I'm quite aware that on a subnet nothing gets routed out from avahi, WHICH IS WHY I SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED A PUBLIC INTERFACE.
This message has been brought to you by the committee for reading messages you're responding to.
I believe this translates to: DON'T EVER HOOK THIS UP TO A PUBLIC INTERFACE.
Why would they make avahi/bonujour/rendezvous on by default? If you hook that up to a public interface (ie directly to your cable modem) you're screaming to the internet: "hey there, here's some resources you can use to get into my box"
Is it just me, or is this an big invitation to script kiddies?
There are two basic rules to using linux. DON'T PANIC. Always carry a towel.
Just because its not on the webpage you're looking at doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Contact Dell's business sales, and you'll get their pricing for a barebones system, contact microsoft and you'll get support.
I'm talking about how an Enterprise would actually purchase a system, not some dumbass clicking a button on Dell's webpage.
We live in the real world..
Two Word: Media Server
Completely medialess DVD collection. On demand TV that I never need to worry about clearing up space on. That's what I'll use it for, I was looking at building a RAID to get this amount of space, now I just need 2 drives (mirrored).
Yes, but they come with support so compare apples to apples. If you want a free distro with no support contract: CentOS, OpenSUSE. Same code base.
So, what's the price for the Microsoft support contract? Compare apples to apples now. The software is free on the linux side. The support isn't. The software and support aren't free on the Microsoft side, so pull the numbers for Microsoft to offer the same level of enterprise support to a server deployment.
From: http://download.microsoft.com/download/7/3/9/739c7ab3-25c4-4b8c-9680-81ae10573b9d/BearingPoint.doc
(Microsoft's pricing study against linux)
I can sometwhat determine in their "Detailed Microsoft Pricing" that their "Essential Support" for a small deployment is $8000/year, for "Premier Support" you're talking $50,000. For clarity, for the server deployments they were talking about, that was $300/license on the essential and $100/license on the Premier since it was a larger deployment. So add that to you $799.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Umm... you can get MOST magazines in braille.
http://207.165.235.33/Library/magazines/MagazineListBraille.htm
Movie theaters DO have headphones in them.
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2005/dec/dec05a_05.html
So, both of those issues ARE things that in the past blind people have either sued or used market pressure to get.
NEXT!
I sure would like an extra ethernet port on it, though. Would make a GREAT 3 homed firewall box so I can use the box I've got as my router/firewall/dns/dhcp server for something real (it is, after all a low end first gen p4, it could server SOMETHING).
Different posters, read UID on a message board to keep an eye on who you're responding to. Then again, if you can't keep track of that, and your points are nullified by the basic operation of the mod system, what do the details matter?
And I've honestly had only a handful of problems on the betas. That's why I'm willing to put my main personal laptop in the line of fire for Beta testing. I know a thing or two will break, but I also know that I'm helping to keep the release versions trouble free for those that want to use them. Especially given how often I install custom compiled unstable versions of stuff that's also in the repos, I feel like my little amd_64 laptop is making a bit of a contribution in making sure that the newer package schemes (which they seem to tweak at every release) sort out the obscure.
.deb with a little input from you. You can make it as simple as faking it so there's no dependencies and just putting it in with a version number so it can be uninstalled through synaptic/dpkg, or you can list the dependent packages so that you don't break with an upgrade. Rather nice tool.
I did find a great tool for when I want to install "roll-your-own" stuff on Ubuntu. checkinstall. It creates a
But I digress. My only point was that on released versions with rather up to date packages, Ubuntu manages dependencies VERY well. I got really tired of having to be on the unstable branch in gentoo (which ubuntu is debian unstable with a six month release cycle and more bells and whistles) which broke like clockwork at every update I tried.
I want to use my computer, not constantly configure it. I can tweak as much as I like in Ubuntu, I just don't HAVE to. That's the main thing that people seem to misunderstand in Ubuntu. Yes, its a binary distro by default. But nothing stops you from rolling your own packages and installing whatever you want. No matter how deep you get into the system, its still linux, and you can still tweak and replace whatever you like. And its less finicky than Gentoo is about resolving dependencies when you do it. Also, the default choices tend to be pretty good for whatever it is you're trying to do.
Now, that said, I wouldn't use it to try and build an embedded system, that's REALLY where gentoo shines. Something that you're going to build once, needs a SMALL footprint, needs lots of tweaking to get it JUST RIGHT, and you're not going to need to update it terribly often.
Gutsy == Beta, which I specifically mentioned not in Beta in my comment. You really can't complain about packaging stuff when you're the one testing it to make sure its packaged right. That's why they have betas. File the bug.
Well, Gentoo is your golden child for believing that updates need to break the system. That's why I left it. When not running beta (ie 5 out of the 6 months of their release cycle) I've had NOTHING break on a DESKTOP system.
On the server side, I generally update my 6.06 boxen once a month or so, and the worst of it has been rebooting due to a small kernel rev. No muss, no fuss.
Gentoo OTOH, was a nightmare with system dependencies breaking inside the package manager. So I don't see the piming of Gentoo as somehow superior, it breaks shit all the time.
They may be the phone company, but around here for internet service, they have some pretty stiff competition, (my ISP which is the cable company, another Cable Modem provider that's strangely not a cable company, dish which i know sucks but is there). The ISP I'm with kicks their but for speed/price, so that's who I chose, but the fact is that unlike most areas for phone service, there are options for your ISP.
So they do have to care a little. Granted, cable companies are no gems when it comes to customer service, but as expected, their ISP customer service is far better than their television customer service, as they have competition in that market.
I was indicating that I didn't know, but I doubt that they worked around it, since it would be a workaround specific to one piece of hardware, I thought that was quite clear given the question and response. Silly me for using language that indicated which option I was addressing (both really)
I would kind of doubt that.. its sending information on a masked interrupt at a hardware level. Either way any workaround is just that, and is dirty since its specific to a chipset.