I remember reading something about someone doing this back when CodeRed II came out. He had a simple CGI to submit a shutdown command to the inquiring machine. Cool.:)
That's the old version of the DasBistro script. You can get it here.
Actually, @Home has a plan to stop this for their customers; they're going to go out of business, cutting them all off the net.:-)
Seriously, most large providers are completely ignoring this problem. UUNet blew off my auto-notifier (I'm using the DasBistro one) and then sent me a customer service satisfaction survey. Needless to say, I rated them "0" in every category...
my experience so far has been best with the IBM PCI token Ring adapter 2 and the IBM auto 16/4 PC cards (the older ones with the hologram-y label, not version 2).
Yes, as I said, the IBM cards are less susceptible to the timing issue I discussed. However, in the testing we did, they almost never recover properly if you yank the cable, wait a few seconds, and plug it back in. Under NT and OS/2, you had to reboot in that situation to regain network connectivity.
With the 3COM cards, they usually reconnected.
Plus we could get refurbs from CablExpress' Equal2New program for cheap, and still have a lifetime warranty. But it was still way more expensive than Fast Ethernet, and for 1/4th the throughput.
Token Ring is horribly sensitive to timing issues, especially when using Cat5 in a physical bus instead of a physical coax ring.
I have seen a TR network where a single machine could develop a problem, and this would cause a group of 8 machines to all lose the net. Any one of those machines could bring them all down, and the only thing that would get them back up was shutting them all off (completely power-down, even rebooting didn't do it) and then bringing them back up one by one. Something as simple as shutting down Windows NT to the "click to reboot" prompt was enough to cause the problem to develop; eventually one of them would lose it's mind, and they'd all go.
Throw into that mix, the fact that Linux Token Ring drivers are bastard stepchildren that get 1/1,000th of the use of the Ethernet drivers (if that much) and you end up with real problems.
Bottom line; come in a weekend and try that other NIC out, maybe it's drivers are more mature. But other than that, don't dick with the company network, Token Ring is too damn sensitive.
You might try putting a few NT boxes into the "click to reboot" state, and see if they screw up the company network too. Works best with 3COM TR NICs, which is ironic since they also seem to recover the best to having their cable pulled and replaced while live.
If they see the problem is Token Ring specific, and just exacerbated by a bad Linux driver, perhaps they'll switch to Ethernet. If they trade their TR NICs in to somebody like CablExpress, they might break even or make a small profit on the switchover, and they'll certainly recover the costs in a short period of buying Ethernet NICs instead of new TR ones; they're horribly expensive, and the infrastructure gear (CAUs, LAMs, MAUs, switches, routers, etc.) is even worse.
An even better suggestion might be to find a job in a shop that prefers the more-manageable problems of Ethernet to the problems of Token Ring.
As another poster pointed out - if this kind of black hole creation were going to cause any problems, it already would have. If these high-energy particles they will be making will produce black holes, then there are about 100 black holes produced per year as a result of cosmic radiation - and they haven't been detected yet, so obviously they have a pretty small effect, and there's nothing to worry about.
Doesn't matter, this is the United States of America, where anything that's man-made is bad, and anything that's "natural" is good, even if it's identical to the man-made.
Maybe some dimensions are curled up on our quantum scale, but what if our familiar 4 are curled up on someone else's quantum scale?
And what if my Aunt had balls, then she'd be my uncle.
"What if" is the very beginning of science, but only if you then proceed with some science.
Re:It's been said before...
on
More WTC News
·
· Score: 2
And even then, they may not be able to overpower 5 guys with weapons (since shooting guns in the air is er, not a great idea)
Sky Marshalls were a bad idea for two reasons:
1) Previously, most hijackings resulted in a plane being flown to some other place, and then lots of demands being made, and eventually 99% of the hostages get released, if not 100%.
2) The FAA isn't a law enforcement organization and it's heads aren't good at managing a law enforcement organization.
So, you had armed men without clear, consistent policies, underfunded for training, and in a situation where drawing a gun and resisting was the wrong thing to do.
Now, however, we have a different situation; a hijacked plane must in the future be assumed to be a very large, very accurate cruise missile. It's actually better if somebody jumps up and cracks a window, crashing the plane immediately with all on board perishing, than that it crash into a building full of people.
Further, we can now justify, politically and economically, putting trained law enforcement officers in there, under the command of the US Marshall's service or the FBI, or the Secret Service, etc. They'd have the training, the will, and the policies to deal with situations better.
Further, we have a tiny handful of Sky Marshalls. There wasn't a single one on any of these planes. We can jump that percentage up, put a hell of a lot more of them up there.
After Israel freed Israeli hostages in 1976 (in the Air France plane) that Arab and German terrorists took to the heart of Africa, hijacking had pretty much stopped
Yeah, hijacking has pretty much stopped.
Except for those two planes that hit the goddamn World Trade Center, and the one that hit the Pentagon, and the one that went down in Pennsylvania, and however many they didn't manage to get to (such as possibly Miami or Orlando).
But, there hasn't been any hijacking LATELY; it's been really good since Tuesday afternoon.
We know for a fact that some of the guys on the planes were Arabs who have learned to fly in the US, whose examiners think they could have flown a 757 or 767 (after it was airborne) well enough to do this, and who are BELIEVED to be connected to Osama Bin Laden.
Media and others are jumping on the Osama Bin Laden theory a bit too eagerly for my comfort. I've had my eye on Iraq since yesterday night. People keep saying it wouldn't be that hard to do this - this is bull.
However, whether Osama Bin Laden did it on his own, or did it because Iraq hired him to, doesn't really change how we respond to him and Afghanistan, does it?
Whether you think we should arrest Bin Laden, or bomb Kabul flat with him in it, who hired him only matters for what we do about THEM, not him.
1. MSN
2. MS Applications
3. MS Operating System 1
4. MS Operating System 2
5. MS Operating System 3
Then OS-2 and OS-3 sell all their assets (except the Windows code) to a new company for $1, and get out of the business.
Then OS-1 hires all their employees.
Then the Apps groups continues to not make an up-to-date version for anything except Windows, because why should they?
If we want to hear more about the terrorism we can go to cnn.com
Unless you want what you hear to be accurate.
They spent an hour yesterday reporting a "CNN Exclusive: the US Bombs Afghanistan". It was an exclusive, all right; exclusively in CNN's heads. Afghanistan was bombing Afghanistan, like they do approximately daily.
They were reporting the Camp David attack that didn't happen, the George Washington Bridge bombing that didn't happen, the State Department carbomb, etc. etc.
Re:you're assumptions were correct
on
Parrot: For Real
·
· Score: 1
but the problem is, three-dollar crack has very little to no effect on the human memory.
The way you deal with terrorist soldiers is catch them, pry their kneecaps off with screwdrivers, stab them repeatedly, then leave them to die like they deserve to.
Thereby becoming a less-free society, which is exactly their goal. When the police begin to violate the laws, and everybody has less freedom, the terrorists have won.
And in the process, you've made some new martyrs for their cause. Do you really think death frightens people who are willing to kamikaze the WTC? Irrelevancy frightens them. Dying of old age in prison frightens them. Being killed by infidels makes them happy.
Wouldn't that very thing acknowledge a victory for the terrorists?
A minor one. But since the policy was wrong in the first place, and since it's costing thousands of American lives, sticking with it to make a political point is awfully cynical.
Exactly how many women and children are we willing to exchange for machismo?
The *second* bomb, however, wasn't necessary - the Japanese had seen what damage one lousy American bomb was capable of, and were about to surrender.
No, actually, they thought we had conventionally firebombed Hiroshima, and couldn't possibly do it again quickly without massive preparation. They simply didn't believe it, until we did it again.
No; we need to change the policies that cause the terrorists to be pissed off at us, so they'll go bother somebody else.
Let Israel fend for themselves, and not only will the terrorists leave us alone, but Israel will probably do a better job without our help.
To declare war on them merely legitimizes them as soldiers, and they are NOT soldiers; they are criminals, and the way you deal with criminals is to arrest them, try them, and stick them in little boxes for the rest of their lives, like the animals they are.
Perhaps you're not aware that the penalties for contempt of court can, and usually do, include jail time.
"All of your senior management going to jail as a cost of business" doesn't sit well with corporate America, I assure you. Gates has been in jail, he doesn't want to go back.
Tell the conference organizers to meet in Russia from now on as they harbor a more "free" and innovative environment.
Yeah, that's a good idea; have all the world's techies bring their thousands of dollars worth of portable electronics with them to a country with three times the violent crime rate of the US...
Every country's got it's problems. Boycotting the US isn't the answer.
Clearly you were trolling, but I'll answer anyway.
The short answer is "where did you go to pre-law, dipshit?"
The long answer is:
No, it can't. This is a federal case being prosecuted by the Department of Justice, and if they decline to prosecute it, the case will end the minute they tell a judge that. What, do you think these things just leap up and prosecute themselves? Maybe the judge takes over and starts presenting evidence?
SGI has been manic-depressive over Linux for years.
Their flakiness nearly destroyed the Orlando LUG not so long ago, when they decided not to allow us to hold our meetings there anymore because not enough people showed up at a meeting. Never mind that it was summer, we'd just moved out there and their place was hard to find, and we'd been locked out of the web page briefly and couldn't update it that there was a meeting that month...
Funny, i don't see any claims that George W. Bush told anyone to do anything.
This is ironic, in light of your misquote; the article to which you're replying said (erroneously) that the Bush ADMINISTRATION instructed them, not Bush personally. If you're gonna quote somebody, actually quote them, don't fake it.
P.S. Write your state senators and tell them to press on -- the trial can go on without the DOJ.
No, actually, it can't; however, they aren't stopping the trial. Looks like you didn't read ANYTHING on this before you posted, yet you still managed to get modded up to +5.
For the record, they are just abandoning the push for a breakup of the company. The trial is right on track, and they are still pursuing legal remedies for the exact same claimed violations.
All of which is readily apparant in both the Slashdot article, and everything it links to.
Slashdot Mirror
You can be arrested for jaywalking or speeding.
But, OK; a person accused (not convicted, just accused) of trespassing on a construction site would have fewer civil rights than a non-citizen?
Wow; you have an American citizen who has been accused of jaywalking having fewer civil rights than a non-citizen?
Where do dogs fit on this scale, 9.5?
I remember reading something about someone doing this back when CodeRed II came out. He had a simple CGI to submit a shutdown command to the inquiring machine. Cool. :)
That's the old version of the DasBistro script. You can get it here.
Actually, @Home has a plan to stop this for their customers; they're going to go out of business, cutting them all off the net. :-)
Seriously, most large providers are completely ignoring this problem. UUNet blew off my auto-notifier (I'm using the DasBistro one) and then sent me a customer service satisfaction survey. Needless to say, I rated them "0" in every category...
my experience so far has been best with the IBM PCI token Ring adapter 2 and the IBM auto 16/4 PC cards (the older ones with the hologram-y label, not version 2).
Yes, as I said, the IBM cards are less susceptible to the timing issue I discussed. However, in the testing we did, they almost never recover properly if you yank the cable, wait a few seconds, and plug it back in. Under NT and OS/2, you had to reboot in that situation to regain network connectivity.
With the 3COM cards, they usually reconnected.
Plus we could get refurbs from CablExpress' Equal2New program for cheap, and still have a lifetime warranty. But it was still way more expensive than Fast Ethernet, and for 1/4th the throughput.
Token Ring is horribly sensitive to timing issues, especially when using Cat5 in a physical bus instead of a physical coax ring.
I have seen a TR network where a single machine could develop a problem, and this would cause a group of 8 machines to all lose the net. Any one of those machines could bring them all down, and the only thing that would get them back up was shutting them all off (completely power-down, even rebooting didn't do it) and then bringing them back up one by one. Something as simple as shutting down Windows NT to the "click to reboot" prompt was enough to cause the problem to develop; eventually one of them would lose it's mind, and they'd all go.
Throw into that mix, the fact that Linux Token Ring drivers are bastard stepchildren that get 1/1,000th of the use of the Ethernet drivers (if that much) and you end up with real problems.
Bottom line; come in a weekend and try that other NIC out, maybe it's drivers are more mature. But other than that, don't dick with the company network, Token Ring is too damn sensitive.
You might try putting a few NT boxes into the "click to reboot" state, and see if they screw up the company network too. Works best with 3COM TR NICs, which is ironic since they also seem to recover the best to having their cable pulled and replaced while live.
If they see the problem is Token Ring specific, and just exacerbated by a bad Linux driver, perhaps they'll switch to Ethernet. If they trade their TR NICs in to somebody like CablExpress, they might break even or make a small profit on the switchover, and they'll certainly recover the costs in a short period of buying Ethernet NICs instead of new TR ones; they're horribly expensive, and the infrastructure gear (CAUs, LAMs, MAUs, switches, routers, etc.) is even worse.
An even better suggestion might be to find a job in a shop that prefers the more-manageable problems of Ethernet to the problems of Token Ring.
As another poster pointed out - if this kind of black hole creation were going to cause any problems, it already would have. If these high-energy particles they will be making will produce black holes, then there are about 100 black holes produced per year as a result of cosmic radiation - and they haven't been detected yet, so obviously they have a pretty small effect, and there's nothing to worry about.
Doesn't matter, this is the United States of America, where anything that's man-made is bad, and anything that's "natural" is good, even if it's identical to the man-made.
Maybe some dimensions are curled up on our quantum scale, but what if our familiar 4 are curled up on someone else's quantum scale?
And what if my Aunt had balls, then she'd be my uncle.
"What if" is the very beginning of science, but only if you then proceed with some science.
And even then, they may not be able to overpower 5 guys with weapons (since shooting guns in the air is er, not a great idea)
Sky Marshalls were a bad idea for two reasons:
1) Previously, most hijackings resulted in a plane being flown to some other place, and then lots of demands being made, and eventually 99% of the hostages get released, if not 100%.
2) The FAA isn't a law enforcement organization and it's heads aren't good at managing a law enforcement organization.
So, you had armed men without clear, consistent policies, underfunded for training, and in a situation where drawing a gun and resisting was the wrong thing to do.
Now, however, we have a different situation; a hijacked plane must in the future be assumed to be a very large, very accurate cruise missile. It's actually better if somebody jumps up and cracks a window, crashing the plane immediately with all on board perishing, than that it crash into a building full of people.
Further, we can now justify, politically and economically, putting trained law enforcement officers in there, under the command of the US Marshall's service or the FBI, or the Secret Service, etc. They'd have the training, the will, and the policies to deal with situations better.
Further, we have a tiny handful of Sky Marshalls. There wasn't a single one on any of these planes. We can jump that percentage up, put a hell of a lot more of them up there.
After Israel freed Israeli hostages in 1976 (in the Air France plane) that Arab and German terrorists took to the heart of Africa, hijacking had pretty much stopped
Yeah, hijacking has pretty much stopped.
Except for those two planes that hit the goddamn World Trade Center, and the one that hit the Pentagon, and the one that went down in Pennsylvania, and however many they didn't manage to get to (such as possibly Miami or Orlando).
But, there hasn't been any hijacking LATELY; it's been really good since Tuesday afternoon.
We know for a fact that some of the guys on the planes were Arabs who have learned to fly in the US, whose examiners think they could have flown a 757 or 767 (after it was airborne) well enough to do this, and who are BELIEVED to be connected to Osama Bin Laden.
Media and others are jumping on the Osama Bin Laden theory a bit too eagerly for my comfort. I've had my eye on Iraq since yesterday night. People keep saying it wouldn't be that hard to do this - this is bull.
However, whether Osama Bin Laden did it on his own, or did it because Iraq hired him to, doesn't really change how we respond to him and Afghanistan, does it?
Whether you think we should arrest Bin Laden, or bomb Kabul flat with him in it, who hired him only matters for what we do about THEM, not him.
Which is why you break it into FIVE companies:
1. MSN
2. MS Applications
3. MS Operating System 1
4. MS Operating System 2
5. MS Operating System 3
Then OS-2 and OS-3 sell all their assets (except the Windows code) to a new company for $1, and get out of the business.
Then OS-1 hires all their employees.
Then the Apps groups continues to not make an up-to-date version for anything except Windows, because why should they?
If we want to hear more about the terrorism we can go to cnn.com
Unless you want what you hear to be accurate.
They spent an hour yesterday reporting a "CNN Exclusive: the US Bombs Afghanistan". It was an exclusive, all right; exclusively in CNN's heads. Afghanistan was bombing Afghanistan, like they do approximately daily.
They were reporting the Camp David attack that didn't happen, the George Washington Bridge bombing that didn't happen, the State Department carbomb, etc. etc.
but the problem is, three-dollar crack has very little to no effect on the human memory.
He probably just forgot that.
The way you deal with terrorist soldiers is catch them, pry their kneecaps off with screwdrivers, stab them repeatedly, then leave them to die like they deserve to.
Thereby becoming a less-free society, which is exactly their goal. When the police begin to violate the laws, and everybody has less freedom, the terrorists have won.
And in the process, you've made some new martyrs for their cause. Do you really think death frightens people who are willing to kamikaze the WTC? Irrelevancy frightens them. Dying of old age in prison frightens them. Being killed by infidels makes them happy.
Wouldn't that very thing acknowledge a victory for the terrorists?
A minor one. But since the policy was wrong in the first place, and since it's costing thousands of American lives, sticking with it to make a political point is awfully cynical.
Exactly how many women and children are we willing to exchange for machismo?
The *second* bomb, however, wasn't necessary - the Japanese had seen what damage one lousy American bomb was capable of, and were about to surrender.
No, actually, they thought we had conventionally firebombed Hiroshima, and couldn't possibly do it again quickly without massive preparation. They simply didn't believe it, until we did it again.
No; we need to change the policies that cause the terrorists to be pissed off at us, so they'll go bother somebody else.
Let Israel fend for themselves, and not only will the terrorists leave us alone, but Israel will probably do a better job without our help.
To declare war on them merely legitimizes them as soldiers, and they are NOT soldiers; they are criminals, and the way you deal with criminals is to arrest them, try them, and stick them in little boxes for the rest of their lives, like the animals they are.
Perhaps you're not aware that the penalties for contempt of court can, and usually do, include jail time.
"All of your senior management going to jail as a cost of business" doesn't sit well with corporate America, I assure you. Gates has been in jail, he doesn't want to go back.
Tell the conference organizers to meet in Russia from now on as they harbor a more "free" and innovative environment.
Yeah, that's a good idea; have all the world's techies bring their thousands of dollars worth of portable electronics with them to a country with three times the violent crime rate of the US...
Every country's got it's problems. Boycotting the US isn't the answer.
Yes it can go on without the DOJ. Moron.
Clearly you were trolling, but I'll answer anyway.
The short answer is "where did you go to pre-law, dipshit?"
The long answer is:
No, it can't. This is a federal case being prosecuted by the Department of Justice, and if they decline to prosecute it, the case will end the minute they tell a judge that. What, do you think these things just leap up and prosecute themselves? Maybe the judge takes over and starts presenting evidence?
SGI has been manic-depressive over Linux for years.
Their flakiness nearly destroyed the Orlando LUG not so long ago, when they decided not to allow us to hold our meetings there anymore because not enough people showed up at a meeting. Never mind that it was summer, we'd just moved out there and their place was hard to find, and we'd been locked out of the web page briefly and couldn't update it that there was a meeting that month...
Conduct remedies can't effectively be enforced in this case, therefore they are equivalent to nothing.
"Contempt of court" is the concept you're missing. Look it up.
Funny, i don't see any claims that George W. Bush told anyone to do anything.
This is ironic, in light of your misquote; the article to which you're replying said (erroneously) that the Bush ADMINISTRATION instructed them, not Bush personally. If you're gonna quote somebody, actually quote them, don't fake it.
P.S. Write your state senators and tell them to press on -- the trial can go on without the DOJ.
No, actually, it can't; however, they aren't stopping the trial. Looks like you didn't read ANYTHING on this before you posted, yet you still managed to get modded up to +5.
For the record, they are just abandoning the push for a breakup of the company. The trial is right on track, and they are still pursuing legal remedies for the exact same claimed violations.
All of which is readily apparant in both the Slashdot article, and everything it links to.