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U.S. Attack -- More Updates
I'm trying to get stuff together, and post an update: The Pentagon, which evidently has partly collapsed with a chasm 200-300 feet across, and fires on six
stories, has ordered the USS JFK and George Washington into NYC. PLEASE GIVE BLOOD. Over 200 firemen are reported missing, and
reports of 50,000 dead in the WTC collapse are being bandied about. Dick Cheney has assumed control of the White House, and is in the situation room there. GWB is not returning to the White House until things have calmed down -- and has gone evidently to an undisclosed location. The [CDC] in Atlanta has largely evacuated but has activated their bioterrorism
units. American Airlines flight 11, the first to crash into the WTC, was going from BOS -> LAX. There are rumors of Akamai's founder being onboard on Flight 11, As well, the rumor is that the pilot of United Flight 193 flew it in
into the ground, outside Pittsburgh, rather then fly into the USX building, which if true, makes him a better person then I -- but there are also rumors that it was shot down by a F-16. United Flight 175 also crashed into the WTC, according to Boston.com, and originated from Boston -- so the WTC was both Boston
flights. Reports of a car bomb that was supposed to have gone off int front the State Department have been denied. In a statement, the Taliban government of Afghanistan has denied any involvement, and Yassar Arafat has denounced the attack. Remember: No one knows who did this yet, so don't make any assumptions -- remember what people
first thought about the OKC attack. In other news, the US - Mexico/Canada borders are being heavily screened; all air traffic has been grounded; nationwide federal
buildings are being evacuated; NATO personnel in Brussells have been sent home, Israeli embassies worldwide have been evacuated, all U.S. Disney parks shut down;
major parts of European cities, Britain in particular, are being shut down; stock trading is shut down in all major European and American exchanges. There are 50 flights still in the air, with 2
international flights that have yet to respond. F16s from the US Air Force has been instructed to shoot down flights in a no fly zone over NYC & DC - an AVI of the WTC plane or mpeg here.
More as we
know.Update: 09/11 18:10 PM GMT by H :I've heard on NPR that all flights and planes are now accounted for -- but that a fifth crash has occurred in an undisclosed location. As well, a car bomb did go off in front of the State Department, and there was a crash near Camp David. There's a well done timeline - we also had a report from someone who lives 3 miles away from the PA crash. Evidently the plane veered several times, and then smashed into an abandoned strip mine - which was luckily not near any people or anything.
Here are emergency contact numbers for the airlines with planes down.
American Airlines - 800-245-0999
United Airlines - 800-923-8555
Hope this helps
I am me...I think
"No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people in their righteous might will win though to absolute victory.... ....with confidence in our armed forces - with the unbounding determination of our people - we will gain the inevitable triumph - so help us god."
- President Franklin D Roosevelt
December 8th, 1941
Speaking to the American people after the attack on Pearl Harbor
FWIW, I'm not a citizen of the U.S. nor do I live there.
Violence induces more violence. Retaliation will only lead to more deaths. If you are a citizen of the U.S. of America, please write your representative right now and ask him to join a plea for peace. Historically the U.S. reaction to this kind of attack is to counter strike. It's highly probably that it's already being planned or even carried on. That will solve nothing. You might get even, but that achieves nothing. The death will not come back and the attack has been already recorded on the books of history. At this point in time, counter attacking is irrational and puts not only the lives of U.S. citizens at risk, but those of lots of people all arround the world, too.
http://www.penguinradio.com/ has live streams of the DC Police Special Operations channel. This is a shoutcast MP3 feed.
I'm sorry, but that's way too vague to make any sense at all. How could anyone call DC or New York "the City of God" - I'm sick of all these new-age hippie bastards who wet their pants every time something happens that can be contorted to almost fit one of Nostradamus' ridiculous "prophecies". There are serious events in motion without letting stupid superstitions get in the way.
"To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking: Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!"
The navy base where I work (an hour from DC) has been shut down - all non-essential personnel ordered to leave. Gates are closed to incoming traffic and police are everywhere. The military appears to be treating this as a war.
--Brandon / Split Infinity Music
Even if you're not in NYC, blood supplies can be moved around, and are desperately needed in a situation like this. Given the situation, does anybody know if they'll accept donations from folks who gave less than 8 weeks ago?
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
Yeah, because bombing has done such a good job of stopping terrorists in the past...
... in Northern New York is locked down tight. No one in, no one out. Damn.
I've written too much on this already this morning, but a lot of the details in this post do not match with the several reports I've read, and I've posted the facts from those results to my web site, crash.neotope.com, along with several links to news sites that are actually letting me in...
People, give blood wherever you live, regardless of whether it's in California or in Rhode Island!
Michael C. Hollinger
He wanted his chance to change his approval ratings... Now's the time.
FAA reports that there is still approx 50 planes of varoius sizes still in the American skys. Best of luck to all of them.
We're at war.
Yes, we need to calm down. And very methodically and carefully find out who's responsible for this. But once we know, I can assure you, there won't be any peace falling down on those responsible.
We can't just sit here and continue to get attacked and terrorized for no apperent reason.
is in charge at the White House according to CBS news. Yeah, like that's something we didn't already know since day one.
My "lame little website" www.libertynews.org is up and running and available for news updates. Facts only please!
Brian
Remember Lexington Green!
Would this be happening if Gore were our Pres?
Continual updates on poliglut. And we're still operating without lag.
They can't fly plains into buildings when they're dead.
BBC reported that a US statesman as saying this is the second pearl harbour
It is not
think
how many bombs have gone off in london how many lives have been lost in west bank
how many people have died because of veiws of a few
dont go assumeing that this wont happen again and again
the world you live in is full of hate dont add to it
regards
john jones
I am from Newfoundland Canada, and our airports are the destination for many re-routed flights.
Goose-Bay Labrador is expected to DOUBLE its population because it is a small city with a very large airport.
As for St. John's (where I am) we have gotten at least a dozen planes and we are expecting more. I'm considering going to the airport to volunteer for any help I can.
-underdog
I've been hearing that the price of gas is about to skyrocket. Anyone out there involved in the industry that might have any ideas? Why, how much possibly, etc?
(My apologies for such a mundane question in the midst of the afternoon)
'Life is like a spoonful of Drain-O, it feels good on the way down but leaves you feeling hollow inside'
Please, no matter where in the country you are - GIVE BLOOD! Blood banks all across the nation will be getting blood and plasma to NY and DC at this time, and we already have a serious shortage nationwide. If you're over 17 years old, 110 lbs, and have no STDs, call 1-800-give-life and find out where you can donate.
Think outside the... Hey, where'd the friggin' box go?
If you are looking for news, you will find the most current information on TV or radio.
Many online news services are not available, because of extremely high demand.
Below are links to cached copies of news sites as they appeared earlier today.
Breaking news: Attacks hit US [Washington Post - CNN.com (cached)]
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
I work right down the street from NASA, and I caught on the television the tail end of something weird going on down there...
My Webcomic: Asylum on 5th Street
American Airlines flight 11 from Boston was the first plane. It was a Boeng 767 200. It was hijacked near Albany at 8:28 am (according to flight path information). Just before hijacking the the speed gets very erratic.
"Freedom itself was attacked, and freedom shall be protected" President Bush said from Barksdale. It is the closest military base to Florida with complete military communications which provide links to all aspects of the US military (including nuclear weaponry).
Looks like Jelerial's site can host pictures as well as it hosts GiZ.
I have been watching a continuous video feed for the past hour from http://www.sky.com/skynews/home/
BTW, they www.sky.com runs Solaris. So does washingtonpost.com - which was one of the few sites that was up. I don't promote Solaris - but it is interesting.
As far as I can discern it seems all of the .mil sites have been cut off from outside access or shut down, wether this is for security reasons or physical loss is yet to be determined.
The dogs of war have been let loose and they shall not return to thier masters heal until death and blood are thiers.
people, this is only going to get worse.
"Angel-headed hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of the night."
As I write this preparations or underway to turn our studio into an emergency blood donation center for the American Red Cross. They need help. Business want to help but most do not have the advantage we (martial art schools across the US) do; lots of floor space for them to setup.
If you can't help this way please just go and donate blood today.
My prayers go out to the hundreds, if not thousands of families who lost a loved one today. NYC is my home town. All I can do from 1375 miles away I will.
Peace,
Sandor Urban
Prospecting Stinks. Stop Wasting Time on Cold Calling.
It will be interesting to see the US response to whatever backwater country might think about harboring anyone connected with this act of terrorism. Especially if this act of terrorism was perpitrated by Bin Laden. The Taliban may want to reconsider its policy on harboring Bin Laden. In any case, I suspect that any US response will involve large holes in small countries.
although the us canadian border was closed it has been opened up again... at least the bc/washington was has been opened again. As for the rest I do not know. Traffic is moving slowly though due to stepped up customs inspections.
Many of us in New York would love to donate blood or otherwise help in any way possible, but this is apparently difficult right now.
The red cross does not seem to have anywhere I can donate blood in my area, so if anyone knows of any other resources that can use help from those of us sitting at home, wondering what we can do, please post links, phone numbers, whatever.
-Peter
== Just my opinion(s)
Nostradamus's predictions have been constantly discredited, being not only applicable to all sorts of events in past 500 years, but also originally written in an obscure version of french that was regularly mistranslated.
Please, put your doomsayer sandwichboards down and stop ringing the bells.
(Not you Diomedes, you talk sense)
Smid
Terrorists hit airlines.... this is the first time that an airline has been used to destroy a target- it literally is out of the Clancy Novel in which an airliner crashed into a joint seat of congress (THIS IS A BOOK!).
/. - it was the only news source we had at work until the CNN and ABC servers got back up.
As for everyone screaming for peace- shut up. The US has had a pathetic lax policy on terrorism. I feel we should move to a new "If you claim responsibility, you are dead. If you are planning it, you are dead. If you mastermind or participate, you are dead." policy- Eventually they'll run out of terrorists.
picture links
http://johnhaller.com/jh/terrorist/
Thank god for
Baltimore's security is being tightened. All schools are authroized to closed by Gov. Glendening. BWI is closed, folks, call ahead if you have a flight there. Local news is showing school closings now.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
If it's Bin Laden or the Taliban, we'll bomb those fuckers back into the stone....oh.
You would figure that there would be this sort of reaction. www.taleban.com The sick feeling that I get is that this will be the beginning of an uglier time in human history. Im going home to make love to my wife. Might be the last time.
Guys,
I want to encourage you to ask all your providers to block immediate all possible sources of terroristic activities, which is all arabian countries including Israel!
Cut these countries off the web, cut them from mail, cut them from every possible connection. WORLDWIDE!
FYI: I am not an american citizen.
thank you!
www.lehigh.edu/~wsc2/terror.htm
A well-known Astrologer had a dream which in hindsight seems to have been linked to this attack.
Here's the full text, since the site is bound to be slashdotted:
PRE-COGNITIVE DREAM
by Eileen Nauman
Every once in a while, I receive a pre-cognitive dream (maybe once a year or every couple of years....the thing is, I KNOW when I get them, they DO come true). I've had 2 pre-cogs in 2 days in a row; very disturbing. When I get these, they usually come true 6 to 9 months from the time I've had them. When I get them, they are usually very symbolic. However, this second one was very explicit. And that is why I need your help. Here's what I was shown:
There is going to be a terrorist bombing occur in an office building, in a city. My sense was a city on a coast (like West Coast, East Coast). It APPEARED to be an American city (felt like San Diego, California), but I could not be sure of this.
What I am sure of is this: The downtown office building was white with blue horizontal stripes. The stripes were really long rows of blue-tinted windows. The building has three "wings" or "towers" to it. Two shorter wings on the outside and the third and tallest tower in the middle.
I was downtown, in this city. I was talking to police detectives at a police precinct (this building was 3-4 stories high and sandwiched in between taller buildings) that was only a half a block to 1 block from this multiple office tower-building. We were having lunch together at some small cafe or diner near the precinct. We left after having lunch. It was a bright, sunny day. The weather was warm (70's-80's), blue sky, and there were lots of people on the sidewalks, hurrying and scurrying by.
The police detective was in a light brown sport coat; summer weight. He was short, about 5' 6" tall, in his mid-fifties, partly balding, with steel gray hair across the back of his head. His most outstanding feature was his brow was very wrinkled. He had a round face. He was lean, like a whippet and lively eyes (didn't see the color of them).
I remember wide sidewalks; lots of people (elbow to elbow) rushing by, bustling, and in a hurry. It was summer. They were wearing a lot of colorful skirts, dresses and short sleeved shirts; some business suits, but for the most part, a dressed-down crowd. The streets were 4-lanes wide. I didn't see the traffic; I only heard it and smelled the diesel and car pollution, heard the horns honking, and heard engines running. One thing that stood out was that I saw a brown, wood, telephone pole with a cross fixture and saw black lines strung from it, to across the street.
For whatever reason, I went back to the police precinct building (it was to the left of this office tower). I was in on the ground floor talking to the sergeant at the desk to get a hold of the detective who had gone upstairs. I was standing and asking the sergeant to get him for me. The police officer behind the tall, dark wooden desk was in a dark blue,
short-sleeved uniform. I remember seeing three gold chevrons on his one arm sleeve. He was fat, his face square and jowly and I was thinking this guy was put behind the desk because he'd never make it as a beat cop. He had thick, dark brown hair, reddish colored cheeks and wore no glasses.
As I was doing this, there was a concussive bomb explosion that went off. My ears hurt. The windows in the front of the police precinct bowed and shattered inward. The concussion came first. And then the horrendous sound. I was thrown forward and I grabbed for the desk. I thought it was an earthquake at first. We ran out to the window and looked to see what had happened. People everywhere were screaming, running and some stopped and pointed up at that 3-tower office building.
As I looked up, I saw the explosion taking place (like a replay). About half way up, on the left side of the tallest, middle tower, I saw the red and yellow explosion, the white-colored dust vomit outward from within the building. It was as if half of that tower blew up. And then, to my horror, I saw the entire upper half of this tower begin to fall in slow motion downward. It was horrible. I saw the middle tower hit the smaller tower below it. The metal of the center tower seemed to bend over the smaller tower like hot butter and the middle tower crashed over the smaller tower, covering it.
My detective friend and I hurried over there (I was an EMT, I might be able to help). As we approached, we saw hands, legs and heads sheared from bodies. People were in shock and shrieking. I felt the building was unsafe; and very unstable as we hurried to get a first look at if we could help or not. I was so emotionally staggered by this. I was nauseous from looking at how many people were killed in this explosion. The detective kept saying it was a terrorist bomb that had been planted. I don't know HOW he knew this, but this is what he kept saying over and over again to me as we searched among the many dead.
I came out of that pre-cognitive dream. It had been as real as me standing there and actually seeing it happen. And I knew this was real. It was not some dream from the landscape of my imagination. I was VERY upset. I know the difference.
I get these pre-cog dreams every one in a long while. And when I get them, they come true 6 to 9 months after I've seen them.
I THINK I was in either an American city or an ENGLISH speaking city or, perhaps a city that spoke English as a second language. It FELT like I was on a coast; West Coast or East Coast--or a "coast" of some kind. The crowded conditions of downtown felt like Hong Kong. Or maybe the island of Taiwan; the sense of hurrying and scurrying, a fast walk, that the people of Hong Kong do and I've been to Hong Kong. It could be ANY crowded city in the world, possibly. Perhaps in Argentina, Peru (Lima), Australia, Spain, New Zealand, or Brazil... I just don't know. I wasn't given the details of city and country. I do know that I was talking to the detective in English and the people I saw on the streets looked "American"--they were Caucasian looking--I THINK--it could have been Japanese/Chinese ancestry,
too. I just can't be sure on this point. One thing that I felt more sure of was a SEACOAST city. That is the place to start. Or, maybe "old" seacoast or sea--which would infer a DESERT region (because deserts are 'old ocean'). Like Las Vegas, for instance.
The office building was big and beautiful, with these "wing-like" towers. It was white with blue (windows). I would guesstimate that the two smaller towers were probably 10-15 floors high, and that the middle tower, the tall one, was about 20-40 floors high. And it stood out because it was so beautiful and it appears "new" rather than an "old" office building. I'm not good at heights. I hope the drawings I put up on a web page will show approximate size/height proportions. Don't get hung up on details--it's more important to see the drawing for confirmation.
I have made some drawings of what I saw. I'm going to ask Dan to put them up on a web page with this posted information, in hopes that someone will have recognized this office building where they live.
I need your help in trying to find this building. If, where you live, there is such a building, please get a hold of me privately. I will then, once there has been a positive identification on this building, get a hold of the FBI and give the information to them. I don't know if they'll laugh me out of their office when I contact them or not--but I do know I have to try. Your help is of great value in searching for where this building is located--the city that it's in--the country that it's in. Good luck on your search.
This amounts to a psychic detective hunt, if you will. I know some Athenians are highly clairvoyant. If, after reading this, you get any "flashes" or "hits" on it--please email me privately with the information. I will keep all of it. IF we are able to identify that this building does exist, I will take all information to the FBI about it--including your psychic 'hit' on it, as well.
I don't care where you are, give blood now. All reserves will be pulled from round the nation. if needed. New york hospitals are over flowing with injured.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Since CNN/BBC are so slow to load/are down completely to gain imformation you might try a regional news site such as http://www.nando.net in order to get AP news and relieve the burden on the other sites.
Just heard a senator (I believe) ranting about the fact that this is the very sort of thing that our goverment is supposed to protect us against, and that this shows how badly our republican led government has failed in their duty.
To tell you the truth, I voted democrat in the last election. But this sort of statement is enough to sicken you, regardless of party affilliation.
'Life is like a spoonful of Drain-O, it feels good on the way down but leaves you feeling hollow inside'
if we DON'T get rid of them, I guarantee they will strike again. we need to strike back, fast and harshly and show that the US is not going to tolerate this any longer.
I've already posted this in the earlier topic, but it's a bit buried.
The date itself indicated that this is probably a Palestinian action. September 11th is the mean date of the Camp David Accords, which essentially ended the conflict between Egypt and Israel and indirectly lead to the current conflict there.
You were eaten by a grue.
I can confirm the navy is mobilized as well, all 3 of our canoes are en route as I type this
- Toby
Violence induces more violence. Retaliation will only lead to more deaths. If you are a citizen of the U.S. of America, please write your representative right now and ask him to join a plea for peace. Historically the U.S. reaction to this kind of attack is to counter strike. It's highly probably that it's already being planned or even carried on. That will solve nothing.
Dude. This is worse than Pearl Harbor.
Get with the real world. You're dealing, most likely, with Arab terrorists. They're born and raised to think martyrdom after destroying civilian targets is the way to Mecca.
The only thing they understand is violence. This is the start of World War III. Make no mistake about it.
It's time to clean up the Middle East. And I'm afraid that will mean a lot of collateral damage to their civilians, but *the fucking World Trade Center* went down.
I don't care about a few Syrian or Afghani or whoever women and children in the face of *at least 50,000 innocent civilians* dying.
This is war. It's not pretty.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
I watched the 2nd plane this the WTC, I watched the towers fall. It is just scary as hell if you ask me. I am more scared of what the US is going to do, and god help all the people that have died in this. Lets hope our leaders keep there heads and people do the right thing here.
You can check out the pictures from my digital camera I took from the hudson if you want.
WTC Pics
Neck_of_the_Woods
#/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
Anyone heard anything about it? I heard something about an attack.
BS.....page was last edited.....TODAY. Sorry dude, nice try.
What happened today in the US is probably something that all people will never forget. I pray for the victims, families, and workers who are trying to save lives.
I have been thinking, if and when we find out who is responsible for this (assuming it is a group, and assuming they are not dead already) there would be no way you could possibly punish them. My gut feeling is through out the Eighth amendment and inflict as much pain and suffering as one could take. But this is America, who ever is responsible will probably go thru a trial that will last decades.
Its kinda funny how the Middle East folk that are considered to be our adversaries are celebrating in light of these attacks. One has to ask, where would those nations be without the US? We have done too much catering to these ungrateful nations.
When cars are outlawed, only Outlaws will drive them...
Here are some pictures taken by a co-worker. I could see the WTC burning this morning on my way to work. http://www.netbsd.org/~groo/
www.bleepyou.com
Not sure if this has been posted yet...
Today is September 11th...
September 11th was also the date that certain conditions were reached under the Camp David accord, a treaty which terrorist groups have regularly rallied against.
I alternate between posting +5 and -1 Comments. Karma: +53 -47 = 6
States offices and courts are closing down. All off-duty police are being called in.
Governeor Glendening is declaring a state of emergency in MD. Text from WBAL TV's coverage says that the declaration will allow schools to close early.
--
# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
Check:
http://www.dal.net/wtc/
It has news (comfirmed and uncomfirmed) from the attacts..
States of emergencies have been declared in Broward and Miami-Dade counties. The tolls on the Florida Turnpike have been lifted. All local airports have been evacuated.
However, no threats or unusual activity have been reported. Our guard is up.
There were several webcams in the WTC on the top floors which are obviously now no longer working.
The washington post has a webcam pointed at the pentagon which updates every 30 seconds showing the fire which is bellowing smoke into the air.
I have a feeling that this disaster will be the most highly covered one in history simply because of the number of webcams scattered around both DC and NYC.
The world is neither black nor white nor good nor evil, only many shades of CowboyNeal.
remember, when you hear someone say "pray for xxxxx", it's prayer that started this.
a battle over a piece of land in mythology. that is why 50000+ people died today.
when people say 'pray to god for the vicitms', what god do they mean? the god of the muslim palenstinians, or the jewish god of the israelis, or the catholic god???
it is all religion's fault.
wake up sheep, your sacred texts are no different then the stories lof odin, zeus, or thoth.
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
This is certainly one of the worst things I have ever witnessed, and that includes being in London during IRA bombings.
I just have been thinking: who on Earth is going to take responsibility for this?? As soon as one has spoken up, yes, he will be a flat spot on the wall.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
This is bigger than Pearl Harbor. Probably thousands dead. Maybe tens of thousands.
http://www.evilcode.net/eck/
If you want to give blood or you don't call 1-800-448-3543 to find out where you can.
If you don't want to give blood call anyway and go do it. Dammit its a free cookie, think of it that way. You like cookies don't you geek boy?!
Everybody denies I am a genius--but nobody ever called me one!
Why's that? Do they think that the copyright opponents are responsible for the attacks, and that they will also punish Disney for their nefarious involvment in various copyright laws?
I was notified that Los Alamos is closing.
Wakil Ahmel Mutawakel renounces attack in news conference
Fox News just reported that smoke from New York City is visible from the ISS (or Alpha, whatever you call it).
Not responding to this attack will not lead to peace. Unfortunately there is a large and organized group of people that are willing to give their lives to take ours and threaten our way of life. It's not about getting even.
The capacity of the world trade center is twenty thousand people. Perhaps you would sit by and watch this tragedy happen, but I would give up my own life to prevent this from occurring again.
BBC reported that a US statesman as saying this is the second pearl harbour
It is not
Pearl Harbor was an attack during a time of global war on a military installation that cost a total of 2,403 lives.
This attack occured during a time of peace on civilain installations and the death toll is being estimated at over ten times that of Pearl Harbor (at least).
My son is stationed in Mayport (Jacksonville) and reports that all East Coast Navy ships will be out of Port within the hour.
db
Cig:
ôô
Phone Center number 1-800-387-3624. Not sure if that's just for Canadian or for generally anyone in NYC.
When the news first broke out many of these web sites were down. I found out what was going on by checking slashdot. Many people posted links to news sites that were still working. It was interesting to watch newly posted links successively become bogged down. It took me a while to be able to find a working video feed of the event. I got the latest news from my wife at home who was watching regular television.
This event has really tested the ability of the Internet to handle news.
BTW, I have finally found a good news site that is providing continual video coverage: http://www.sky.com/skynews/home/
I have been watching it for the past hour and a half - although it has been jumpy lately.
Time to see if all that talk about Texans is true.
I say kill who ever did this, and kill anybody that stands in our way to find out who did this. If one country says they don't want to give us help, bomb them into submission.
At least it will help the economy.
From what i can see, while i am very sorry for the loss of innocent life. i have absolutly no pity for the US as a whole.. US has been bulling people around for most of existance, DCMA, Canadian softwood tarrif(this put me out of work),etc,etc,etc.. im personally surprised that it took so long for somone for finally whoop their ass. they are simply getting what they deserve.. a proverb i think would fit well here is a nail standing up will eventualy get hammered down.. or keep sticking you neck out you will get your head cut off.
Don't rule out anti-globalist anarchists. How do you strike them if they are responsible?
try for an australian site http://www.abc.net.au/news
they are updating and being 3am here its relatively quick
After this the US will not allow for arab countries to protect terrorists. Hopefully they won't strip away any more freedoms from US citizens.
As horrible as this is, the real tragedy is yet to come. The death toll today will probably be less than an average year's traffic accidents. Horrible to be sure, but soon to be announced attack on American freedom by its politicians will be worse. Expect our politicians in general and the corrupt NY Senators in particular, to start pushing for more "gun control", face scanning, restrictions on encryption, national ID cards, etc., as part of "anti terrorist" measures. "Something MUST be done", they will cry. Look at the death toll of socialist history to see tragedy that eclipses what was done today. Airlines are already testing biometric ID databases for "enhanced security and expedited check in". Today is bad news for several reasons.
Terorists are very sure people. They are quite sure that will not be heard and their opnion will be ignored. And usually they are right. More opposition they face, more radical they became, and therefore face more opposition. More oppressing and US will become more people will be sure of it and will provide a feedback in form terorism, and as result US will soon became even more oppressing. There are vicious cycles here. US is seeking domination over other countries. US seems to think that its way is best one and world exists to serve it.
US will not solve any problem (except percived by goverment lack of power of goverment structures) by making anti-teroristic forces stronger. The understanding and love are not the only exit from this vicious cycle. There is other one to which US is going and leading. The Death and Self-Destruction.
That's the way the world works.
What you suggest is to lay down and be bulldozed, not a very attractive proposition.
Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
- W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
They can if they train monkeys to do it, or use robots. Or use robotic monkeys.
Might be a good investment these times.
The Swedish prime minister, Mr Göran Persson, said today that "this unprecedented attack on the open democratic society is a concern for all democratic countries" (my translation) This is one of very few things that he and I agree on. USA does not stand alone in this. The entire western world is behind you.
My thoughts and prayers goes with the American people tonight.
Peter Svedman,
Tyresö, Sweden.
Oh2@telia.com
If only the NSA had been able to read all comms this would never have happened...
This will be used as an excuse to futher limit privact/freedom.............
Maybe you live in interesting times
There is a big hole IN the Pentagon where an airplane crashed into it. It is ONLY 5 stories tall (well, there is that *alleged* basement), 5 sides, 5 rings. A 300 foot hole can not swollow the worlds most massive office building.
Plane crashed by the helliport, on the Southwest side. Most reports are that it hit between the E and D rings (outermost ring is E).
Not sure if this was the wedge that is currently under renovation or not.
There are confirmed dead adults in the building. None of the children in the daycare center were harmed. All of the children are accounted for and safe.
Verizon is asking everybody in the DC area to stay off of ANY phone line unless it is an emergency.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
Bombing Tripoli in the 80's caused an overnight drop in world Terrorism.
At least at times, violent reponses *are* effective. You can still make a moral case against them, but the dotion that they are ineffective is demonstrably false.
I'm a belligerent evangelical pacifist. I am opposed to violence (pacifist), and want to spread this attitude to everyone else (evangelical). But I'm also willing to use massive military force to bring them to this enlightenment.
hawk
There's going to be hell for this, that's for sure!
it is one thing to read it, another to see them just gone. great photos and thanks for putting them up. I hope all of your people are oK.
i'm mirroring CNN's site and trying to update as much as i can - http://www.jessenewland.net/article.php?sid=87&mod e=thread&order=0
Jesse Newland
Every flight tracking site i tried was flooded, but if you go to you can download a demo of their flight tracking software wich seems to work fine, showing me nothing directly over the US, with a fiew flights heading out of the atlantic towards the US, and one heading out of the pacific towards SoCal.
Mod my comments down. It'll be fun.
Mecca is a city in Saudi Arabia, you dunce.
These attacks are serious business, and will require a serious response once the guilty parties have been identified. Condemning a religion (about which you clearly know very little) does not help here.
** The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not reflect those of my employers - past, present, or future**
We claim not to have any intellegnce before hand, but we are already blaming bin laden. What is wrong with this? It sounds like we might have had an idea and DID NOTHING. While I believe this should be treated as act of war, we need to make certain as to who this is. It could very well be that we did this to ourselves, remember waco. Our own terriorists may very much want to do this, but it does look external.
us embassy had hightened security since Fri, someone just told me.
this and the whisper and address 1/2 hour later make me wonder how much more open us goverment could be to us citizens.
http://www.metlin.f2s.com/a2u.html
Where down the street from NASA? It must be pretty nuts anywhere near the government buildings.
I mean, shit, a friend just called me: he works 3 blocks from the US consulate here in Toronto and they all got sent home because everyone was watching the news, and because of proximity to the consulate!
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
remember the past -- near or far -- and realize that the u.s. and its cronies are/were responsible for inflicting much anguish to the rest of the planet.
i am in no way justifying this unprecedented act of violence, but on the other hand you should be aware that there are a lot of people out there who are getting tired of your "righteous might" shoving everyone else about.
and please: let's avoid the childish pearl harbour / fdr references. that was sixty years ago and we are all in a very different situation now.
i wipe my ass with your stars and stripes
Call 1-800-GIVE-LIFE. There is no need to rush things. Any time in the next week or so is fine. The current blood supply is being sent to the needed areas, and the new donations will be used to replenish things.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
Why the September 11? Well, here's a list of possible causes. I've picked this from scopesys and filtered to leave everyting that might have pissed off somebody. Pick your choice! 1919 US marines invade Honduras 1922 British mandate of Palestine begins 1926 Aloha Tower dedicated in Honolulu 1926 US defeats France for their 7th straight Davis Cup championship 1935 US captures Davis Cup for 7th straight year 1941 FDR orders any Axis ship found in American waters be shot on sight 1954 1st Miss America TV broadcast 1961 Bob Dylan's 1st NY performance mont 1973 Chile's President, Salvador Allende, deposed by Pinoche in a military coup
I can't seem to login, so maybe posting as an anonymous coward will work...
Los Alamos National Laboratory along with all other national labs have also been shut down. Just received the email telling me to go home. Glad I decided to stay home and telecommute while watching CNN...
they have the best coverage and no lag .... great videos and a latest update ticker....
"Traffic to CBS.MarketWatch.com tripled. Akamai (AKAM: news, chart, profile) pumped out almost 5,500 simultaneous video and audio streams from MarketWatch.com's site. That is over 382 megabits per second."
and someone has claimed responsibility....
"Report: Palestinian group claims credit
Reuters reports that a Palestinian group has claimed responsibility for attacks on U.S. targets including the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. "
But this points to another strategic error by these chuckleheads--attacking the Pentagon is going to make this *personal* for the U.S. military.
Think of *all* the stupid things you've done in your lifetime. Add them all up. Now compare this to the United States Marine Corp being your personal enemy . . .
hawk
You mean cyborg_monkeys?
Cunning linguists
It's a good point, the web isn't that great as "mass media" for time critical. You can get your message to a lot of people over a long time, or a few people very quickly, and for the end user it has custom content like nothing before in history, but anything from breaking news to that Victoria's Secret model multimedia thing they planned is vulnerable to "slashdot effect"-like things.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
Immediate
STATEMENT BY THE PRIME MINISTER
Prime Minister Jean Chrétien expressed his horror at the news that the United States has been the victim of multiple terrorist attacks :
"I was stricken by news and television pictures coming from the United States this morning. It is impossible to fully comprehend the evil that would have conjured up such a cowardly and depraved assault upon thousands of innocent people. There can be no cause or grievance that could ever justify such unspeakable violence. Indeed, such an attack is an assault not only on the targets but an offense against the freedom and rights of all civilized nations.
All Canadians are praying that the brave firefighters and rescue crews who currently on the scene will be successful in limiting the casualties. We stand ready to provide any assistance that our American friends may need at this very, very difficult hour and in the subsequent investigation.
Aline joins me in offering, on behalf of all Canadians, our deepest sympathies to the families of the victims and to the American people.
- 30 -
PMO Press Office: (613) 957-5555
This document is also available on the following Web site:
http://pm.gc.ca
Didn't this exact same thing happen in Escape from New York?
First plane: American Airlines, Flight 11, Boston=>LA, 92 on board.
Second: UA, 175, Boston=>LA, ?.
Third (Pentagon): AA, 77, Dulles=>LA, 64.
Four: UA, 93, Newark=>SF, ?.
Five: UA, Camp David.
Six: (PA crash),
Seven: (CO crash?), UA?, 175, =>LA?
Many planes still in the air, none currently threatened.
Crash Five may be a rumour. I keep seeing it scroll by on the TV, but I've read that it's been denied.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
Not only will America's flags be at half mast, the worlds will be. For the record it will only damage the perpertators "cause". _
According to a friend who has a husband that works in NATO, the attack may be internal to the US, ie: not Benladen. Only time will tell. However, I do think it's related to the US (rightly) pulling out of the conf. on racism due to anti-israel language. Israel is STILL God's chosen people. don't mess with them.
(sorry, i forgot my pw at home)
not really important though
The world trade center has its own zipcode. It also has more telephone exhanges than the city of Detroit, MI.
As per the 50,000 people rumor. That is how many people work in the building. Since the attack happened just before 9am, we can hope not everyone was there. 50,000 people is the size of many medium size counties in the US.
The 4 jetliners along have the capicity to carry almost 1000 passengers.
Many of the NYC financial companies are based in the towers. The world economy is not at the best state for this to happen right now.
Soccer Goal Plans
The only moral response is to identify and destroy the organizations responsible and any governments who gave aid and comfort to the terrorists.
The issue is justice. Those who initiate force against others must be identified and punished.
We (the US) should not rely on the fiction of "international law" -- there is no such thing. This is an act of war and war is the appropriate response.
I'm glad you're not a citizen of the US. You clearly don't deserve to be.
Gordon.
He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.
-- J.R.R. Tolkien
with people whose purpose is to destroy the USA.
Learn some history, not every country will disarm if the USA plays nice (China).
"Can't we all just get along" won't work for a foreign policy. (The Democrat Party foreign policy).
Hi; I've never posted here and I've never given blood either, but I need to do both. Can someone please post where in the Worcester-Acton-Littleton-Marlborough, MA (USA) area I can donate blood? http://www.newenglandblood.org is down.
What really worries me, is that if we go to war, with the state that the country is in right now, what are the possibilities of a National Draft?
Do You Have Stairs In Your House?
Get out while you can.
There is a WORLD OF SHIT coming right at you.
We can still pump oil through the layer of glass.
The time for peace is over. We must identify who did this, find out where they are, go in after them, and wipe them off the face of the Earth. We will suffer more casualties doing it this way. Too bad. The death toll is going to exceed Pearl Harbor and approach if not exceed use of a tactical nuke. We are at war.
I doubt Bush is doing much of anything besides keeping his own ass safe...
And trying to figure out a way to blame Clinton for this.
Become a FIST.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fists_of_Righteous_
I know this is redundant. But please, if you can, give blood. Even if you're not in the NY area, give blood because it's the gift of life.
In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
then, I think it's time to open a 55 gallon drum of whoop-ass all over Afghanistan.
- Perldivr
It's pretty easy for us on /. to decry law enforcement aids like facial recognition hardware and software when times are good. However, it's at times of senseless tragedy like this when we really need to stop and think about letting law enforcement have the tools they need to prevent wanton acts of distruction like this.
Abuses of those tools should be another discussion entirely -- an important discussion, but not a paranoid paralyzing one.
I'm usually fairly detached during times like this, but by myself, watching the coverage, and imagining the enormity of the loss of life, mental health, peace, property, and productivity -- I couldn't help but cry in frustration at not being able to do anything.
I'm sure I wasn't the only one. To those of you who felt likewise, don't forget that feeling. When the time comes when you're able to voice your support for tools and methods to stop these methods of terrorism, don't be silent.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
Fuck you damn pacifist assholes.
We're talking about people who would kill thousands of innocent people in order to terrorize the rest.
Find these people. And make them pay.
And hey, to any "innocent bystanders" that get stomped in the process, just think of the people in the world trade center.
Take a look at the pictures on the Jerusalem Post site:
"Reports are indicating residents of eastern Jerusalem, the West Bank, and southern Lebanon are celebrating the mass terror attacks in the United States at this time".
"Dozens of Palestinian youths have taken to the streets and are distributing candies on a main thoroughfare passing through eastern Jerusalem".
I'm getting bored of this, where are my linux news ?
I know we are all pretty much tech oriented around here but a friend sent me this I just wanted to know what you guys thought.
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654
i think /.'s QOTD is rather inappropriate, given the circumstances...
This is just another form of expression -- really just free speech in a way. It's one "symbol" to whoever committed this tragedy that, to them, served some view of "justice". After all, we killed McVeigh. Who are you and I to say that 50,000 dead in the U.S. wasn't "just" -- until you have heard all the facts from the misguided fools who thought it would be. Remember: when death is an O.K. form of expression toward Justice, then you can only call political deaths unwarranted when you have seen the reasons for which they were committed and you, personally, agree that those reasons did not serve a just cause. As of now, you don't know those reasons. So don't diss the most somber tragedy in the peaceable history of our nation -- it's just another form of expression, and as of now, you don't know what it's trying to express or why.
(I don't mean what I think I mean.)
According to
thisananova photo and
this ananova story
the Palestinian people are dancing in the streets. Arafat has
condemned the attack, but he clearly doesn't control much of anything.
Here's the text: (sorry for trampling ananova's copyright)
Palestinians celebrate US tragedy
Thousands of Palestinians are celebrating the terror attacks on the US.
They have been chanting God is Great and distributing sweets to
passers-by, even as their leader, Yasser Arafat, said he was horrified.
In the West Bank town of Nablus, about 3,000 people poured into the
street shortly after the attacks.
Reports from the West Bank claim Palestinian extremists say the
attacks in the US are a consequence of the country's policy in the
Middle East.
Demonstrators have distributed sweets in a traditional gesture of
celebration and several Palestinian gunmen have shot in the air, while
other marchers carried Palestinian flags.
Nawal Abdel Fatah, 48, wearing a long black dress, threw sweets in the
air, saying she was happy because "America is the head of the snake,
America always stands by Israel in its war against us."
Her daughter Maysoon, 22, said she hoped the next attack will be
launched against Tel Aviv.
In traditionally Arab east Jerusalem, there was a smaller gathering of
about two dozen people, many of them young children led in chants by
adults. Some drivers passing the scene honked their horns and flashed
victory signs from their windows.
Yasser Arafat and his top advisers huddled at his office in Gaza City,
watching the events unfold on television.
He said: "We are completely shocked. It's unbelievable. We completely
condemn this very dangerous attack, and I convey my condolences to
the American people, to the American president and to the American
administration, not only in my name but on behalf of the Palestinian
people.
In the West Bank, meanwhile, the leader the Democratic Front for the
Liberation of Palestine denied his group was involved in the attacks.
Story filed: 17:06 Tuesday 11th September 2001
'Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue,
/ St einer-Social.html
a state of mind; a disposition for benevolence, trust
and justice.' (Spinoza)
'Peace is a habit of mind, a way of seeing, that will make
harmony suceed. We have made mistrust and coercion our habit
of mind, and built our civilisation on the balance of power,
therefore we will reap war after war, and there will be violence
in our streets and even in our schools and homes.'
(Eknath Easwaran, Three Harmonies, Parabola Magazine,
November 1991, p. 50)
When those who are economically powerful are in a position to use
their power to wrest privileged rights for themselves, then among the
economically weak there will grow up a corresponding opposition to
these privileges; and this opposition must as soon as it has grown
strong enough lead to revolutionary disturbances. If the existence of
a special province of rights makes it impossible for such privileged
rights to arise, then disturbances of this sort cannot occur. . .
(Rudolf Steiner - Social Threefolding, 1920)
http://home.earthlink.net/~johnrpenner/Articles
Quote from US senator interview (Orin Hatch and JOhn MCCain) -- CNN
"We are going to find out who did this and hunt the bastards down."
You go boy, time to start kicking some terrorist ass...
there are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots
"An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind" - Ghandi
Are more dead people the answer here? Take a minute to think before screaming for vengence.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/mmedia/webcam s/eyeondc.htm - just got the idea to search for webcams and I found this one aimed at the Pentagon. You could probably find many more out there from http://www.webcam-index.com/USA/ or something like this site.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Oh bother.
i've always hated arabs. middle east bastards. this fucking incident definately makes matter worse. fucking assholes
i can smell a crackdown on the net in general, encryption, asylum seekers, anonymous net usage, people complaining about the need for spies...
Nuke the shit out of Baghdad, Tehran, Kabul, Palestine... shoot first, ask questions later.
to whoever did this:
uum, you're fucked. this is america, idiots.
CNN.COM MIRROR AT http://gro.o000o.org
and I doubt you have a clue.
NO one is taking this lightly...especially not the president. Clinton, Bush, Gore, or whoever would probably be doing what is being done right now. Getting things safe first, and resolving what we can of the problems as quickly and safely as possible.
And hopefully...then will come the correction of this situation...but that is my hope...I can't speak for anyone else on that.
NY channel 7 is reporting that most of the workers below the 80th floors got out...but a survivor they had on set reported that hundreds of firemen were climbing the stairs as he was leaving....which was less than two minutes before the collapse of the south tower. prayers to those who lost their lives doing their duty today.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
martyrdom after destroying civilian targets is the way to Mecca.
Glad to see that you're so sure of that. Are you sure that this wasn't done by another WASP militia member who served formerly in the Gulf War?
We might argue about whether retaliation is the answer here (and I can certainly understand homicidal impulses in this case), but you want to nail the actual culprit, not just some random scapegoat.
There's nothing like the smell of nuclear weapons in the morning.
Maybe its time we had another election? Before this guy [George Double-yah Bush] came in I am sure our country had a few more friends - then again it could be me smoking some good pot, uh weed, um cigarette (still legal?).
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Check out pictures / video / live feed and news updates every few minutes : POENEWS.COM
Shameless Self Promotion : Webhosting at Blender Networks.
Though I agree that most likely (just from sheer probability) an attack from the Middle Eastern area, I really think you should refrain from making assumptions about an entire religion. I am embarassed for you, as what you said was clearly from lack of education on the topic.
My girlfriend comes from an Iranian family, an in know way was she "born and raised to think martyrdom after destroying civilian targets is the way to Mecca". Islam is not to blame here, terrorism is.
To foreign pacifist: go have a suicide.
To American people: your enemies is not palestian or others, your enemies are too rich people (including politics and billionairs, not only Americans) who have set business and money over ethic, kindness and justice. Religion is just another way to slave people to make more money.
And please, stop this f***ing playing muscles - we strong, we brave - you stayed alive, they are dead, you have to build a better world, so that those who died could be proud of you... Not just shutting in the Internet how cool you could be.
P.S. Being from Russia, Moscow I actually know, what does it mean - hundreds of sleeping civilians dying in a moment three nights in a row.
Vitaly
A minor aside to the tragedy, perhaps worth considering a week from now. Bush has talked to the media twice now.
Note that he didn't fumble and stutter.
The man can speak well. His mumblemouth facade is an act.
Question is, why does he act like a moron? What's his goal, his payoff?
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
All the things we bitch about on Slashdot seem like nothing today.
evil adrian
Yeah, it's only taken us twenty years to grow the balls needed to get off our asses and defend ourselves from these rats.
OK, so the Afghanis have denied knowledge, Palestinians have as well, so the next inquiry will probably be Osama Bin Laden. Now, can someone please tell me
1. What his goals are
2. Why he'd attack the US
3. What we know of him?
Quoth the zombie, braaaaaaaains
...'coz of his politics. this would have never happened if Gore would have been elected.
For the first quote, Google only returns a page that says it's a bogus quote they made up as an example, and no results at all for the second. If these were authentic predictions, they should be listed on many pages.
Omnes arx vestrum sunt adiuncta nobis.
It is ONLY 5 stories tall (well, there is that *alleged* basement), 5 sides, 5 rings.
Not an alleged basement. It's actual.
I have worked in it.
There is as much below ground as above.
My NEW Sig: Nuke the fucking bastards NOW!
Goofy, Geeky Gifts and More!
'Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue,
a state of mind; a disposition for benevolence, trust
and justice.' (Spinoza)
'Peace is a habit of mind, a way of seeing, that will make
harmony suceed. We have made mistrust and coercion our habit
of mind, and built our civilisation on the balance of power,
therefore we will reap war after war, and there will be violence
in our streets and even in our schools and homes.'
(Eknath Easwaran, Three Harmonies, Parabola Magazine,
November 1991, p. 50)
When those who are economically powerful are in a position to use
their power to wrest privileged rights for themselves, then among the
economically weak there will grow up a corresponding opposition to
these privileges; and this opposition must as soon as it has grown
strong enough lead to revolutionary disturbances. If the existence of
a special province of rights makes it impossible for such privileged
rights to arise, then disturbances of this sort cannot occur. . .
(Rudolf Steiner - Social Threefolding, 1920)
http://home.earthlink.net/~johnrpenner/Articles
hey desire, how long have we been doing this site? Quite a while, eh? How about we set up a mirroring system so that sites won't be slashdotted? Sound like action instead of couch potatoing? Good, I thought so too
Since the majority of news sites are down, I thought I'd let everybody know that the ESPN web site is carrying news reports on the terrorist attacks, and the site is responding quickly at this time.
I'm watching this live on CNN here in the Netherlands (Europe) and I really do not know what to say.... except for one word: horrible.
My sincere condoleances to all the people in the United States of America.
The plane thet went down over PA was shot down according to my source at the Pentagon.
Gov't officials keep referring to those responsible as cowards. however, Bush has gone into hiding instead of returning to washington. for those of you who will scream it isn't safe for him to return, that may be true. But, i would hope my leader would be willing to show no fear and give the country a feeling of confidence instead of being just as cowardly.
Also, Major League Baseball has canceled all games tonight in order to reduce traffic country wide and also because they felt it would be more important for families to spend time together at home rather than go to an entertainment event.
Here in San Diego there are several buildings that have been cleared and are shut down. Remember, even though we're on the opposite side of the country from New York we do have a tremendous amount of military installations here. (North Island Navy, Miramar Marines, Point Loma Submarine base, Camp Penalton Marine base, Point Loma SPAWAR and NOSC (battle simulation research and development) as well as the Marine Corp Recriutment Training Depot (Marine Boot Camp)) So when stuff like this happens we get justifiably nervous.
Just heard that the city is on "tactical alert". All non-essential city workers have been sent home. Only Fire, Police etc are working today. The San Diego Federal Buiding and most of the tall downtown buildings are closed.
Hey folks, give your kids some extra hugs. It's been a rough day.
Terrorists are parasites. What should we do? Turn the other check and let another mosquito bite us? I think not. You go to the source - the infested water source - and wipe them out. This is what an intelligent organism does. It kill parasites that attack it. Can the terrorists think that any better can come of this?
The University of Minnesota shut down today. My roommate talked with a polisci instructor here who said large campuses are general targets in terrorism of the future. This is no major cause for alarm at universities in general, but something to understand. Where does the US go from here? The next battle is in the financial institutions. The government needs to inform business that it MUST set up safeguards against digital attacks.
It is easy to start pointing fingers toward Osama Bin Laden, but let's hold on for a while. Let's remember we still need investigation before going on a witchhunt, if any.
Don't engage in Jihad. It is akin to WW3.
Would this have happened if Gore got into power instead of gun-slinging Bush? Has he really been that bad toward the Saudis/Palestinians/whoever caused this attack?
Hmmmmm...
Counter attacking is not a good solution, for several reasons. 1) We do not know who to blame, and blind lynching leads to many problems, 2) even if we did know who to blame, counter attacking stands a good chance of angering others, and perpetuating the cycle, 3) even if we knew which nation to attack, and could get away with it, it is still wrong to kill people for the actions of others--we would be no better than the terrorists.
On the other hand, doing nothing is likewise unacceptable. It will send the message that these actions can be taken with impunity, and likely lead to further assaults. Failing to stand up for yourself is the best way to become a victim.
So, logically, we need to do something that is not a counter attack.
This is where brains come in. What can we do that will reduce or eliminate this kind of threat but isn't a blind reprisal? That is the question we should be turning our brains to.
-- MarkusQ
http://mambo.fiberio.net/ has quite a bit of both TV captures, personal pics, and video of whats been happening. It still amazes me how quickly news, pictures, and video can spread today thanks to our little friend, the internet.
Where were the calls of horror, when US planes bombed radio stations in Yugoslavia and "collateral damage" accrued? While prescribing bombs and cruise missiles to other countries seems to be without moral questions, this kind of medicine doesn't seem to taste too good when applied to the doctor himself.
wicked!
Any joojooflop that's engaging in partisan finger pointing at a time like this should definately be booted out of office next election. Any idea who this dumbass was?
I agree that a hasty counterattack is a really dumb texan's way to do things (hold my beer, watch this!) but...
...
I think that the golden rule (whatever you want to call it) should be put into effect... it should be a world standard for living in the first place... if someone is going to crash our planes into innocent people, then we should crash their heads into innocent concrete...
I agree that war is something that should not happen, should never happen, but damnit, you don't watch someone shoot your friend in the head and then just walk away, do you? what would you do if someone killed a friend of yours or a loved one of yours out of cold blood? i'm fairly sure that you'd want to do something to strike revenge for the loss...
i may live in america, but i hate this country... this makes me hate it even more... we've got fucked-up politics full of bickering and stupidity. we've got corporate-run everything these days. we've got "freedom" but that doesn't seem to exist much anymore... and it's probably going to fall further away from us because of this incident.
we started with the ten amendments. those amendments then were edited "to fit with the current times" which is complete bollocks.
now look what we have
"freedom of speech" - yet i can't say "shit" in public without getting stared down funny, even if i am talking about fecal matter
"freedom of religion" - only THE LAWRD JEEZUZ CHRIST in this country! AMEN!
"freedom of assembly" - uh, cops, we're having a street party, go away please (thwack thwack thwack - ouch) they don't let us do that...
"right to bear arms" - which is slowly being taken away, but heed this: if you take the guns away from the citizens, who has guns? the CRIMINALS... therefore it's like putting a huge sign in front of your house saying "I DON'T HAVE A WEAPON IN HERE! BUST IN AND STEAL MY STUFF!"
it goes on...
so we pour millions of our tax dollars into what? we have a government "for the people and by the people" but they don't seem to give a damn about what i really think as a citizen. we have a defense system that doesn't seem to be defending very well today. we have intelligence that obviously isn't so intelligent today. what we have here is proof that america's egotistical "better than thou" views are completely corrupting the country and we need to shape something up before we completely fall under.
this act today was sick, sad, and wrong, and i believe that the people who attacked us, whomever it was, -should- be dealt with. as for war? war is useless and stupid. it's killing lots of people for political reasons. if you fight a war you're fighting yourself just as much as the "enemy" that you fight.
what the united states needs to do is get a goddamned life. anyone recommend a better country to move to? i'm getting sick of this place...
[)(]subliminal labs[)(]
First off, I have to agree that this is the worst abomination I have seen. There is no excuse for this.
The thing that worries me is that (again...remember OK City) people are already blaming Arab terrorists for this and saying it could only have been accomplished by a few people.
Just how many people does it take to hijack a plane? 2? 3? Certainly not more than that. So we have maybe 12 people who downed 4 planes today. That seems like something that just about any fanatical organization could handle. Shit, the Michigan Militia could have decided over the weekend that they wanted to do this.
And now every Republican in congress is ranting on TV about how we need more money for defense and the military, but I can't see how 1000 more tanks or planes would have helped this situation at all. It's just a bunch of politicians jumping on the opportunity to funnel some more money into their pet projects and I think it's disgraceful.
Don't get me wrong, this is the worst thing I've seen and somebody needs to pay for it. But before we go bombing everything in the Middle East, we need to make sure we know who did this.
My heart goes out to all those who lost loved ones in this disaster. I truly hope you see justice served.
Why didn't anyone see this coming? What are all our tax dollars being spent on if not to prevent incidents like this? I can see where ONE hijacked plane could slip by, but FOUR? This is inexcusable.
Sorry, but this just makes me so angry I can hardly contain myself.
Beta sux! Join the Slashcott! http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4760465&cid=46173047
http://www.wgops.com/wtc-pix/
There linked this time, sorry ppl.
Oh shut up. My god, you are so full of shit.
GW does not even know where he is, much less what is going on.
He is a fucking retart, like you.
Now shut the fuck up, and die while you are at it.
Our airports are filling up with US and international flights -- even the small ones like St. John's Newfoundland 9it can only handle 16 wide-body jets and already has 14 on the ground). Passengers are milling around on ground level and being questioned by police.
----- Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. --Army of Darkness
Not sure if anyone noticed yet, but have you noticed the semblance of today's date? (911)
First of all, i'm really shocked and outraged of what happened..
And I would just say don't surrender to hatred calls.. It is the right time to give a chance to peace and logic.. And remember that there were many Arab-American citizens who were killed too..
Don't give hasty conclusions : we don't know yet who made it but we do know that these are cowards' deeds..
All my sympathy with the american people..
I'm not hoping a full scale invasion happens, but I'm glad my forefathers fought for our right to defend ourselves in our homes.
.22 is the best round to buy. Forget about everything they say about stopping power, you want something cheap because if something really bad does go down, expect to be hunting down cats and dogs for food as well as needing a shitton of ammo for cover fire.
--toq
The only retaliation the British government has handed out to the IRA, is to release a few more of there members from prison.
hmmmm, was that some kind of reverse psychology thing???
On a different topic... this is probably the first time I can think of that almost every major news site has gone down. Do you think that major news sites will now have a plan in case an event of this magnitude were to happen in the future? I noticed CNN is "back up" but it's almost purely text. Will websites detect the traffic overload and automatically stop dishing out huge graphics and such so the important things like the news can be displayed? Just something to stimulate conversation (I hope...).
This attack shows in a very cruel way the shortcoming of a missile defense shield. The son of Star Wars could not have stopped this, and what we have seen today is an example of terrorism of the next millennium.
These things have been written about in fiction books and made into plots of movies, but it still surprises (and shocks) us when it happens. What about all the other plots that still are just fiction? I am thinking about a nuclear suitcase bomb in a major city, biological warfare etc etc.
It really shows that it is time for politicians and people all over the world to think about what terrorism can mean in this age of easy access to powerful technology.
solve the problem once and for all >:(
What would Brian Boitano do?
How in the HELL do you get FOUR hijackings with SUICIDAL leaders COORDINATED without ANY hint this was going down from the NSA or CIA??? Boy, those guys are going to get clobbered but good...
So, how much more money will the NSA receive now?
The people cry for more and stronger government.
If I would try to take the absolute power over a country (from a governmental view), this would be the most efficient way. People actually wanting to exchange their privacy against security...
And, oh, please do not start WW III, since it might be the end of the world...
http://usterror.nashlink.net
We'll be trying to post news there (or atleast I will)...
ZOP
Expect, within the next 24 hours:
*All Govt services closed
*Limited mobility
*The closing down of all cellular communications
*Limited Internet based communications
*Semi martial law
America is under attack, and the world is NEVER going to be the same.
Let's calm down. I am an American citizen and here's what I think. We should not take the attitude, especially at this early date, that we should "bomb 'em back to the stone age."
First, that attitude does nothing but inflame the jingos and racist groups. Remember Oklahoma City? Turns out the big terrorists were white guys.
As a corollary, it incites hatred against an entire country, not the specific groups and peoples involved. Someone actually posted here that they didn't care about the civilian casualties of our potential retaliation. How does our bombing innocents make the perpetrators pay. We went through this before with Dresden.
The solution is justice. Bring the perpetrators to justice, through any rational means. But make them stand trial, make them sit, confined in the cells while the whole world watches. All of the perpetrators didn't die in the suicide hijackings. If there was a group, as seems necessary, to coordinate the attacks, then all the members of that group are guilty. All those whole knowingly aided the group are guilty. And all of those individuals should be punished.
But not one innocent life should be lost in our retaliation. If we are to hold ourselves up as a role model (which we already do) then we should act like it (which we don't).
We can be better then we are. Our response to this, like our reponses to all the little challenges we face individually on a daily basis, must move us to be better than we are.
Please feel free to contribute or read over what's currently up. I plan to possibly build a section off of the material gathered- so statements and additions are appreciated.
packphour
-p4
(c) All Rights Released.
(FYI - I'm not a citizen of the US either).
Im putting together a news summary and a mirror for a bunch of multimedia here. Ill continue to work on it as developments continue.
Knock-on effects of terrorist attack
All flights from UK to US have been cancelled. All military and security operations in the UK have been moved up one level of alert status. Yasser Arafat has condemned the attack. Afganistan Taliban have said this operation is too big for someone like the main suspect Osman Lad Bin (no idea - someone correct his name!) to undertake.
FTSE down 300 at close
I heard (unconfirmed) the $/£ exchange rate hit $2 per pound - normally $1.40 per pound.
sitting in Frankfurt right now. sources from the city tell us most companies in skyscrapers either evacuated or let most of their people go home earlier without formal evacuation (it's now 7pm here.). Most large banks are reported to be run with skeleton staff.
Atleast now, some sense will be driven into you stupid Americans.
After all when India and Israel wanted some muslim countries to be declared as terrorist nations, you pl were thinking of contemplating about considering bilateral talks.
Now I'd like you see you talk you bastards.
Man, I love this.
Atleast now wipe out some stupid countries off the world map. If you need, here is a list -
1. Afghanistan
2. Pakistan
3. Palestine
4. Any damn mozzy fundamentalist barbaric country.
Great stuff, I sure hopes this blows into a full fledged war, so that you "americans" learn it the hard way.
I advise Sweden or Luxemburg.
This attack is probably much worse than Pearl Harbor. According to this page at historylink.org there were 2403 deaths, and 1178 wounded in the Pearl Harbor attack. Pearl Harbor mobilized the nation for over four years; of course there was a clear enemy to respond to. How in hell do we respond to this day of infamy?
American Airlines told CNN that it lost two planes, both en route to Los Angeles: American Flight 11 from Boston with 81 passengers and 11 crew aboard was lost. This is believed, but not confirmed, to have been one of the planes that crashed into the trade center. ... American Flight 77, a Boeing 757 from Washington Dulles airport to Los Angeles with 58 passengers and six crew is unaccounted for. The jet that crashed into the Pentagon may have been this one, but that is still unknown.
... United confirmed the crash of Flight 175 from Boston to Los Angeles with 56 passengers and seven crew aboard. It's possible, but not confirmed, that this is the second plane that hit the World Trade Center.
United Airlines lost two planes: United Airlines Flight 93 airliner headed from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, crashed near Somerset, Pennsylvania -- police said initial reports indicated no survivors.
be there to bail your socialist asses...
So how exactly are Syrian and Afghani innocent civilians worse and deserve death more than american ones?
Sorry for being selfish and/or offtopic, but can anyone from New York tell me if there are residential areas near the World Trade Center? My sister-in-law is visiting some guy in New York and we can't get in touch with her (which is driving my wife crazy). All we know is that he is doing an Engineering PHD at a University in New York City. I'm pretty sure that she would be okay, but would appreciate any insight on the surrounding neighbourhoods. Thanks in advance.
Better late than never... (or before you're dead)
http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/wtc
and see
http://www.brooklynonline.com
http://www.mrbrklyn.com/amsterdam.html http://www.brooklyn-living.com
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
- Nostradamus 1654
First of all, I hope and pray for the safety of all involved, and commend the rescue workers who are putting their lives on the line to save others. These people are heroes in the truest sense, and deserve our undying admiration and respect.
Watching the news, all of the stations, particularly the military correspondents (Gen. Schwarzkopf included) talked about the complete failure of our intelligence community to provide us with any warning about this attack. Reporters asking "how could such a thing have happened with no warning," "haven't we infiltrated these groups," "how can you maintain secrecy on something this widespread," etc.
In a couple of weeks, I'm going to look like a prophet for this one. I predict that somebody will mention data security, including e-mail encryption. Whether correctly or not, somebody will propose it, and encryption, already a hot topic in National Security circles, will gain focus.
I predict that within a month, Congress will have drafted, and probably passed, a National Security Act to address the threat of terrorism. In that act, I fully expect to see severe restrictions on the use of secure data systems, including encryption of any form (e-mail, PGP file encryption/encrypted file systems, even SSH and SSL), anonymity (anonymous bulletin boards, including such things as Slashdot), and relaxation of wiretapping laws. E-mail will be required to be send in plaintext, Carnivore will be restored to active duty, and put on more servers with more keywords and more aggressive monitoring. Cell phones, already ruled to be not private, will be actively monitored by the government, as will landline phones--remember, cordless phones (you know you all have them) emit RF too, and the few that have scrambling systems are easily compromised.
Also expect to see civil liberties severely curtailed, at least for a while. Meeting with friends at odd hours (odd to the rest of the world, normal to geeks)? Suspicious. Phone calls to friends in other countries, or of other nationailities (particularly Middle Eastern)? Suspicious. Use of encryption/security? Suspicious squared--after all, what do you have to hide?
My big prediction, though, is that the American Sheeple will hail this as a Good Thing, and support it wholeheartedly. The Sheeple will automatically say that anything that improves security must be a Good Idea, and will fall into line without even considering the ramifications.
Mark my words, my friends: today has been one small step for terrorism, but one giant leap for the police state.
"Make it ten--I am only a poor corrupt official."
--Captain Louis Renault (Claude Rains), Casablanca
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. God cares as much for the people we Americans have killed(1 million + Iraqi's since the begining of the our aggression on them), as he does for the Americans who have died today. But I'm willing to bet your prayers do not go out to those people in Iraqi who have suffered.
I'm not against america, but I am against it's world wide idiocy of waging war, bullying, and all the other crap we pull, that aggravates people to these acts. More security is not the answer. Leaving other countries and peoples alone to determine their own destiny is.
Google cache of cnn.com, they should have the bandwith do deal with this kind of thing
Please realize that what you are saying is not helping. Also realize that if you can't back that up (and especially if you don't apply your 'method' [you probably don't have one] to your self and your own organization [read: your 'team, political party or other hypocritical crap'])
So, please just realize that you are nothing but a talking monkey that is angrily slinging his feces at your self constructed cage of slavery [hate] all the while you are shaking your fist at those who throw things at their cages. Please disappear from the planet and let the intelligent and rational humans handle this.
I'm watching CBC television, The National. The desk reporter is superlative, and I'll be writing CBC to give accolades.
Now that there's less action on the ground, we're getting all the "experts" in as talking heads.
And the unfortunate thing is that some of them are instigating racial hatred. Well, cultural hatred, at any rate.
The same thing is beginning to happen on Slashdot: wingnuts wanting to obliterate Palestian, and even some who want to nuke the entire mid-East.
GET A CLUE!
The US can't just walk in and kill every damn Muslim and Arab. That'd be a worse atrocity than the attack on the WTC -- and the retaliation would make today's events look like a trip to Disneyland.
There must be retaliation...but it must be rational!
Use your cluesticks with impunity. Contact your news stations and let them know that they're being destructive, not constructive; join the message boards and preach cautious, considered reactions; and remain calm.
[Please also note that more people die every day or two in traffic accidents, than were killed in the attack. It's a tragedy, but not much worse than the tragedy we live with every day... it's just that we don't expect terrorist attacks.]
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
This act of terrorism will result in someone/someplace/somepeople being exterminated. Is it right, I say yes. My family fought for freedom and so do I. Someone has attacked that on a mass murder/ act of war action. They there families, friends and government will pay in blood. Why? Becuase we can and now will show we will.
They've turned all the navigational becons in the continental US off as well
All news outlets on the Internet are shut down due to massive surge in traffic, so I am summarizing from reports collected via television, as well as friends in CNN , New York, and Boston. The best source for news is probably television broadcast, or your local city's newspaper website. CNN.com has dropped all extraneous links and ads and has a single story at : http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/worldtrade.crash
Around 8:00 AM (Central Time), two passenger planes smashed into one each of the towers of the World Trade Center in New York City, not more than twenty minutes apart. Around 9:00 AM, one tower of the WTC collapsed. People were seen jumping out of the 101-story (1,360 feet) building's topmost floors. At about 9:30, the second tower also collapsed. Both towers of the World Trade Center have been utterly destroyed.
At about the same time, a passenger plane also crashed into the Pentagon building in Washington DC, collapsing part of the building.
American Airlines confirmed today that it lost two aircraft, Flight 11, a Boeing 767 en route from Boston to Los Angeles with 81 passengers, nine flight attendants and two pilots; and Flight 77, a Boeing 757 operating from Washington Dulles to Los Angeles with 58 passengers, four flight attendants and two pilots. These two flights were likely the ones that crashed into the WTC.
United airlines confirms that it has lost two flights. Flight 93 from Newark to San Francisco was apparently deliberately crashed by the pilot, sacrificed to avoid hitting a target. Another rumor states that it was shot down by an F-16. Flight 175 from Boston to Los Angeles is unaccounted for, possibly crashed. It is possible but unconfirmed that Flight 175 was the one that hit the Pentagon.
Car bombs have been reported at the US Capitol and the State Department, but the reports were contradictory. There also seems to be an explosion of some kind on the National Mall.
The White House, State Department, Treasury, and Pentagon have all been evacuated. Manhattan island has been quarantined, United Nations has been evacuated, and Wall Street has suspended trading. Canary Wharf in London, CN Tower in Toronto, The Sears Tower, Chicago Board of Trade, and John Hancock Center in Chicago, the John Hancock and Prudential Towers in Boston, and CNN Center in Atlanta have all been evacuated/locked down. All Disney parks in Orlando, Florida, and Disneyland in Anaheim, California have been closed. Major downtown centers in cities across the United States are also being evacuated. The Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) has grounded *all* flights in the USA, for the first time in history. F16s from the US Air Force has been instructed to shoot down flights in a no-fly zone over NYC.
The foreign office in the UK has issued the following number for worried relatives here, regarding the recent attacks upon buildings inthe US: 020 7008 0000
Yasser Arafat condemned the attack: "I send my condolences, the condolences of the Palestinian people to American President (George W.) Bush and his government and to the American people for this terrible act," Arafat told reporters in Gaza on Tuesday.
"We completely condemn this serious operation...We were completely shocked. It's unbelievable, unbelievable, unbelievable."
(http://uk.news.yahoo.com/010911/80/c3l1a.html)
Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, said in reaction to the news of the terror attacks that "we want to tell the American children that Afghanistan feels your pain and we hope that the courts find justice."
(http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/
There have been a number of denials of responsibility by Palestinian groups and by the Al Quaida group headed by fugitive Saudi accused terrorist Osama bin Laden.
(Foxnews.com) Smoke from New York City is visible from the International Space Station.
Don't blame me - I voted for Howard Dean. http://dean2004.blogspot.com
you fucking idiot. bush coming to washington serves no purpose other than to further the incentive to bring another attack on washington. My I hope for the day is that all of you fucking little cowards out there denouncing retaliation or blaming the president for this action are realized for the partisan inhumane people that you are. Innocent people died today, and all you can think about is either protecting those responsible or blaming the president? I for one cannnot wait for the reports of islamic people being beaten to death by americans. It could be time for us to stoop to their level and kill innocent people. But this will not happen, because despite our emotions, we as Americans still defer to reason (thankfully), and will allow the rule of law to triumph.
FUCK YOU
Who, exactly, do you want to nuke? Hmmm? No one has claimed responsibility yet.
Bite the hand.
i belive the planes had XP beta versions running on them. This was probably the first reported "crash".
It's nice to see how ready you are to enrol yourself in the army and go on the front line in all this.
But please don't start world war III - I would get dragged into it too if it escalated. Whether through conscription, or through the effects that the nuclear weapons that would fly around the world would have on me.
I have been in a state of shock from what I've seen on television today, even though I live in England, thousands of miles away. I know people who are touring America. They visited the white house last week. I don't know where they are at this moment in time. But more than anything else, the thought that goes through my head is that if this had happened in 5 years time, it could just have easily been me, or people who I know trapped at the top of one of those twin towers when they collapsed. And that truly terrifies me.
Even though it happened in America because it is the largest target, I also cannot think of any reason why the same attack could not have succeeded in England, and neither can the rest of the country - our stock exchange has been evacuated, airport security has been increased, our Government has gone into a state of emergency.
I do not disagree with you that the people involved should be brought to justice, but by waging war on everyone whom you even think could be involved with this tradegy is a terrible thought. I truly hope that you calm down and think the situation through rationally, rather than acting on you emotions which you are understandably doing at the moment.
I was woken up by my roomate to the news that planes crashed into the WTC. As a stupid but curious individual I was walking around the DC Mall checking out the huge plume of smoke created from the pentagon crash that happened just as I left my dorm. About 10 minutes after getting to the mall and talkign with evacuated officials and news crews I heard two quick *BOOM* *BOOM*s then a shockwave that kept echoing.
I never saw any smoke rise into the air, but the noise came from (I think, it's hard to pinpoint these things with echos) from a block northwest of me -- the State Department. I don't know why the news isn't reporting this, but something went off other, and it sure as hell wasn't backfire. I heard over the radio that a car bomb was discovered and then detonated -- but that doesn't really make much sense to me. Anyone know more?
jc
Dude, like get a fucking clue.
How do you know it was Arab terrorists? And do us all a favor and let us know how exactly you came across the great knowledge that:
"They're born and raised to think martyrdom after destroying civilian targets is the way to Mecca. "
Were you raised that way?
Are you an Arab?
Are you Muslim?
I am a Muslim, and an American. Can I blame the OK city tragedy on all Christians just because McVeigh was christian?
DO US ALL A FUCKING FAVOR AND KEEP YOUR GODDAMNED MOUTH SHUT...ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE NO FUCKING INTELLIGENCE WHATSOEVER!
Karma...what's that? I just speak my mind.
I wonder if these attacks could have happened if this group of insane maniacs had no Internet access. I have seen some stories about how Usama bin Ladin uses messages embedded in jpgs and posts coded messages on porn sites and sports chat sites. Not to mention timing flights and operatives etc. How can we stop suicidal crazies like this? My heart and prayers are with all the victims, families, rescuers and innocent American citizens who have had to be a part of this disaster. I think the world will be different after today.
"Laugh, and the whole world laughs with you. Cry, and they still think it's funny." - Mr. Boffo
Liberty in your lifetime
So far, Nellis AFB is on Delta Security Level (as are all military bases, by now, I'm sure) and the Hoover Dam is closed to traffic. People are being diverted to Laughlin by US 95. The Meadows Mall, Stratosphere Tower and Convention Center are also closed. School is still in session, as well as UNLV.
US currency is trading at 1.4759 USD to 1 GBP, according to Yahoo! Finance.
Often in Error, Never in Doubt.
Reading the responses here on Slashdot, I'm both hopeful and disgusted. EVen something as terrible as this morning's murders is food for the trolls of the universe. On the other hand, I proud to call myself a geek when I read mesages from many fine, caring people here.
So perhaps Slashdot is a good reflection of humanity in general, showing both our good and bad sides.
Here at Coyote Gulch, we're still trying to cope with today's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington. We've finally accounted for family, friends and coworkers; I'm grateful that everyone is all right.
Everyone, American or not, must be vigilant that these vcious acts of cowardice do not become tools of self-serving politicians; we can not allow horror to destroy what it is that makes us Americans: our freedoms. This is not the time to hide in our shells, or to the U.S. government turn against its own citizens. As the emotion subsides, we need to find the strength to approach this from the standpoint of justice.
It is never acceptable to kill innocents, whether by terrorist bomb or high-tech missile. I'm all in favor of revenge against the sources of today's atrocities. But revenge must be tempered by knowledge; flattening Kabul or Baghdad is not the solution. We must find who did this, and cleanly ensure that they cannot murder again.
And a final plea: Give blood. Wherever you are. Now. Don't wait. Just do it. Call the Red Cross, call your local hospital, and give a pint to save a life. The best way to respond to death is the celebrate and protect life.
All about me
>The world you live in is full of hate dont add to it
It's a tragedy, but thats exactly the thing to remember! Well spoken!
Nuclear terrorism? My soul trembles at the prospect. :(
:(
I'm 21 years of age. This the the world I'm going to grow up into. And it's being shaken time and time again by psychopaths who doesn't give a shit about my or your or whoevers life.
Fucking great. NOT:
Folks,
:-(
This is way more than an act of terrorism.
WE MAY BE TALKING 50,000 DEAD! That is without doubt an act of war.
I know I'll get modded way down for this, but I will not be surprised if our nuclear forces are now at DEFCON 2 alert, and instructions to target every terrorist-sponsoring state in the Middle East are already sent to our nuclear forces in preparation for a truly massive retaliatory attack. We may be kissing Damascus, Tehran, Baghdad, Tripoli, Khartoom and Kabul goodbye by the end of this week.
For those of you who can't reach MSNBC directly, Visit This Link it's a static page with good response times.
--
DEATH to all TALIBAN RAGHEADS!
DEATH to them ALL!
We call for nuclear deployment to completely destroy the shithole called Afghanistan.
Declare WAR immediately!!!
No investigation! No debate!! Destroy the TALIBAN NOW!!!!!!
Which easily could describe the Civil War...
For those of you who don't know, the President's e-mail is president@whitehouse.gov. (Duh) Some staff flunkie is probably charged with reading his e-mail and giving him a statistical analysis of the contents, although I would assume the President will be quite busy for the next few hours.
Anyway, forget your rep and send a note to the Commander-in-Chief himself. Personally, I respectfully requested that he unleash hell on those responsible, but that's just my opinion....
"I can't learn anything from you I can't read in some fucking book." -- Sean in "Good Will Hunting"
The innocent lives lost are tragic and unprecendented (in the US at least--think of Vietnam, Bosnia, WW2, Siege of Leningrad and others). But we reap what our leaders past and present sow. We are a super power and an empire and so draw the wrath of thesoe we hold dominion over. And we are a free society, so hitting us from within is easier than it could be. The Roman Empire faced terroism by the Gauls and other tribes on their borders. If we as a nation, continue to support land theft, assasination and torture in throughout the world in order to maintain our empire (Chile, Vietnam, Agentina, Iran, Israel, and many more: Ask Kissinger/Bush Sr./Rumsfeld for details) then we must expect retribution will at least be attempted. It is sad to see it apparently acheived by somebody with some axe to grind: for they never kill the guilty, but instead destroy the lives of many innocent people for no purpose. They can even come from our own as in McVeigh. Terrorism is a sad, sad tactic for in leaving the guilty unpunished and killing innocents does nothing to help a cause. It jsut makes the world a meaner, less humane place. Funny huamne derives from human and it is humans who are the least humane of all animals.
Click on 09-11-2001
I don't believe fighting back will work. History has proven that the big country can not fight guerilla warfare battles and succeed. One reason we won our fight against England 250 years ago is because WE were the terrorists.
I say get out of funding wars (on one side, or on both sides) and bring peace back to American soil.
TWW
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
1) How long does it take to evacuate one? Presume it's by stairs on the first one given that the elevators were likely blown out of service immediately.
2) Would they have evacuated the first hit building immediately? This sounds absurd but often people seem to have a "whatever" attitude, so I wonder if anyone from there knows if an evacuation started immediately.
3) Would they have simultaneously evacuated the second building? Don't they share a common section at the bottom?
My questions are because I'm unwilling to think that 40,000 people in the building = 40,000 deaths. There was a good period of time between the first plane hitting and the second hitting, and then a period of time before the buildings collapsed. It is my hope that many survived and made it out.
Rompress is reporting that two bombs went off at the pentagon at 14:30 GMT.
Israel is taking out its representatives from the US.
Shady sources are pointing at the Japanese the Red Army, who allegedly alledge that they were responsible.
I can't stop crying....
/. has performed admirably, and I am thankful to all of you, and all the comments for helping us survive this horrific tragedy.
A complete heartfelt thanks to Slashdot for providign better coverage than any other news site. I was at first appalled by Taco's non-chlant first news post of this tragedy, but I guess nobody knew the scope of it.
Now that people do,
Hemos is right... things WILL NEVER be the same again.
On another very interesting note, (I live in NYC, work on Wall St, was evacuated after the first tower collapsed), of the major media channels in the city, television, telephone, cel phone, the only one that still currently works is my internet connection.
However, websites as you mentioned, are still going down. These internet sites are going down based *NOT* on geographic location, rather on content of the incident. The other media channels are going down due to geographic their location.
I'm either babbling or it's an interesting sidenote.
Anyways, I'm off to go give blood. IF you live in NYC or in the USA, please GIVE BLOOD TODAY!!!!!
GIVE BLOOD
GIVE BLOOD
Somebody's life may depend upon it.
Keeping
That would do it.
You know what's scary? This is one of those rare, rare times when the government can use nuclear weapons on a country (that is found responsible), and the majority (day I say all?) of the US will completely back it.
We need justice, but I hope you understand conventional warfare can provide justice just as much as nuclear war. Nukes are a scary thing...
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Walk softly but carry a big stick...the time has come to bust out the stick.
creative, but not appropriate, sorry man, if I could, I'd mod you down.
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
Maybe Bush can try to kill the terrorists with his latest toy: the missile defense system...
I pray that I am wrong but I see a major war between the Western Christian world (mainly U.S. and Europe) and the Muslim world (especially the Arab world) in the not too distant future. The hatred between these two major groups have moved to unprecedented levels. I also see a complete destruction of the Muslim world. I don't think the people who did this realize the magnitude of the military and economic power of the Western world. Neither Jihad nor Mohammed will protect them from what's coming.
Sorry for sounding so pessimistic. I am normally an optimist but this is the two-by-four between the eyes that will bring the wrath and fury of a really pissed off giant.
...was at http://iserve.wtca.org/view.html -- not sure when if it was served from the tower -- if not it may have an interesting final image that was uploaded, like the stopped watches from hiroshima. i'm on dialup -- any broadbanders able to connect to it?
go get it
Well spoken!
As some one else here said: "the world you live in is full of hate dont add to it"
And I thought this might bring americans together. This is honestly sad that yall are having a flame was at a time like this.
Lemonade Rocks.
I feel that whoever did this has awaken and enraged the American people. I can see a real backlash from this, where people will want to hurt others as they have been hurt. However, we must remember not to hurt innocent people, just becuase how they act or what we think of them. I ask all of you, think before you act.
=================
Unix is very user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are.
All countries in the world will be flying their flags at half mast for the next year or they will bow down under America's iron heel.
This is it you chowderheads. We're taking off the gloves and we're in the driver's seat from now on. This is the beginning of a new world order.
Its time to carpet bomb all those towelheads in the middle east. Anyone remember what happened to japan after pearl harbor? Bush should do the same.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Salon is still up. Also, so is The Toronto Star, the largest-circulation paper in Canada. Salon's newswire listings are flooding with coverage.
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
For a time now the government has been pushing to regulate internet comunicaitons. One of the arguments arizeing from this ordeal is that no one knew it was comming. There was a complete information loss in our government. They were in the dark. I can see the ramifications for regulation that will no doubt come of this. The government is going to push for regulation of internet comunications. That includes encrypted communications. There will be a loss of freedom here in cyberspace as we know it. The government is going to mandate its own jurisdiction in cyberspace. Brace youselves members of the cyber world.
-The Orginal Atrox
-Security is mostly superstition. It does not exist in nature. -Hellen Keller
-Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master.
all the things you bitch about on /. seem like nothing every day, today they seem like less than nothing ...
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
Latest from WTPOP-FM Washington, DC/Manassas, VA
Mayor Williams of DC has just declaired state of emergency in DC. DC Government closed.
VA Governor declairs State of Emergency.
Camp David airplane crash report is false.
Regan National Airport to remain closed until at least 1100 12 Sep 2001
Massive gridlock leaving DC, similar to the first flake of snow day in this area (locals will know what I mean).
Reminders that low flying aircraft around Dulles and National Airports are US MILITARY aircraft, NOT foreign.
Reminders to stay off the phone.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
I am an American. I look forward to going to war, because someone has to protect all those that can't, and won't fight. I am a 30 year old male in the National Guard with many years active duty...I love being a system admin, but I am a soldier first.
We need to deploy to every country that has terrorist activities and capture and/or kill them, period.
-There are only men who are soldiers, and men who wish they were.
-There are only soldiers, and men who wish they were soldiers.
Last time US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were hit, US retaliated witha missile strike against Sudan and Afghanistan. Result? Destroyed aspirin factory that was the only source of medicine in southern Sudan, built by Brits and Germans. In Afghanistan, they destroyed an *abandoned* training camp, formerly used by Taleban during Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Everybody laughed (especially those cunts who planted the bombs) at the Yanks firing their Tomahawks like someone throwing their fists around blindly, having been sprayed with Mace!
BTW, you do realise that the very Taleban that you're all talking about has been in fact organised and armed/trained by the US military during the Reagan and early Bush administration. For fuck's sake, CIA had a permanent post in Pakistan near Afghanistan border where Taleban was launching attacks on the Soviets! Read some history, then shoot your stupid mouth.1
Memepool spotted this link -- The pilot of the short lived
The Lonegunmen had a plot to fly a plane into the WTC...
Mind you so did Tom Clancy.
In complete shock at these events.
Winton
The flights that crashed into the WTC towers were both American flights. Straight from a story on Boston.com, there's a breakdown on the known plane crashes:
-American Flight 11
Boston to Los Angeles
A Boeing 767 with 81 passengers, nine flight attendants, and two pilots aboard crashed into the World Trade Center.
-American Flight 77
Washington-Dulles to Los Angeles
A Boeing 757 with 58 passengers, four flight attendants and two pilots crashed into the World Trade Center.
-United Flight 93
Newark, N.J. to San Francisco
A Boeing 757 with 38 passengers, two pilots and five flight attendants crashed southeast of Pittsburgh.
-United Flight 175
Boston to Los Angeles
A Boeing 767 with 56 passengers, two pilots and seven flight attendants crashed, but United won't say where
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
"...retart"?
Just an investigation? Just hunting down the people involved?!
Is it just me or does this warrant a huge action against countries that harbor these terrorists worldwide?!
We've been at peace for many years and while I hate war I find myself sitting here this morning thinking and thinking alot.
If the U.S. doesn't hit back with a vengence that will send fear into those whom oppose the existance of American lives I think this stuff will just become more and more frequent.
I could be wrong but I think we have been to soft towards these countries and need to take care of this problem as a whole or we will suffer down the road with more attacks of this nature.
This link has been working all day
. ra m?bkup=20307
http://mfile.akamai.com/95/live/reflector:20305
Maybe redundant but its another link to try if none others are working.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
Neutrality doesnt work!
I believe we left everyone alone before world war II and look what happened, we have to be involved in the world we live in...
From what I heard on northwest cable news, that section was just finished being renovated, and some of the offices were vacant or were just being reoccupied. Of course, there were still casualties, but it could've been worse.
every time an abortion doctor is shot and killed, most CLEAR HEADED people don't blame the entire Christian populace...only irrational angry reactionists do that.
"We don't even know who did it yet. I'm already seeing anti Middle Eastern sentiments popping up around me. It makes me sick. "
I realize info isn't getting around very quick, but from what I undestand the DFLP has indeed claimed responsibility for this act. Regardless of whether that claim is authentic, this has all the key features of a Middle Eatern-style terrorist attack. The people involved in the plotting and execution clearly had prior competence and knowledge of how to properly hijack a plane, the operatives had to be well-trained and well-organized, the operatives had no problem dying themselves in the course of the attack. And the same target has been hit by Middle Eastern terrorists before, back in 1993.
Stupid terrorists breached the pentagram, thereby letting Hastur (?) out. Now they'll learn what real terror is.
"American" Airlines Flight "11"
Today is September 11th
What did the two towers look like?
No.
The bastards, that's who!
Wouldn't it be nice if we even could do anything about it. But that's how democracy works, we've given Bush the right to control our military for the next 4 years, and he will do with it as he sees fit. I think I am probably the only american who isn't concerned with striking back immediately.
http://robots.cnn.com...it's mostly text and hasn't been overloaded yet.
www.code-fix.com
Thats the most stupid and dangerous idea I've heard today.
Both extremes are equaly wrong, the only solution is to find the middle way.
Your way won't work, and neither will it do to just sit around, and wait for another attack.
coflow said "It could be time for us to stoop to their level and kill innocent people"
You already do.
Your government and mine both support the Israeli government, who torture dissedents and kill children DAILY in the West Bank. Wake up. They are the ones retaliating.
Read a newspaper or two before ya spew
If you are in NYC and looking to donate blood, I would consider physically going to the site rather than using the phone. I am not in the city; those there should decide for themselves whether the transportation system or the phone lines are clogged up worse.
Also, if you are in the NYC area, consider seeing if these Red Cross chapters or anyone providing relief efforts to see if they need unskilled volunteers--setting up tents, manning the food lines, etc. See your local place of worship, regardless of your religious persuasions--many of them may be providing relief efforts.
--The basis of all love is respect
NPR reported that this section of the pentagon was recently renovated and many people had not yet moved back into their offices.
/ \
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign for peace
x
/ \
http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/9912950
Perhaps this is the "December 7th" for our generation.
I hate to say it, but this will probably lead to more infringement on the privacy of US citizens.
I think it's time for a little Don Henley, all of a sudden.
nuclear presidential echelon assassination encryption virulent strain
Whizzmo
Very much in shock.
This is an act of war against the United States. To say that violence doesn't solve anything is incorrect. Peace did not stop Hitler; peace did not stop the Axis Powers. If viable proof of guilt of Osama bin Laden is brought forth, and the Taliban refuses to turn him over to the United States, then they are an accomplice to an act of war and should be dealt with appropriately. Given the magnitude of the actions taken today, and the loss of life, I can honestly say I would not have any problem whatsoever with a full military response using whatever means neccessary to ensure that the same individuals responsible for this are unable to ever cause anything like this ever again. This is a war involving American citizens. There must be a message sent to the world that terrorist actions against the United States will be met with such an incredible and unimaginably horrific response, than no one sane, fanatical, insane, or otherwise would even conceive of the idea. As for the Palastinian people cheering, I now have no pity for them when Israeli tanks bulldoze their homes and obliterate their towns. And I would support any military action to protect Israel from any attacks from other Arab nations while they eliminate the terrorist elements in the area. To cheer in favor of terrorist actions is to align yourself with the perpetrators. This is the real thing. Thousands of people have died, thousands are wounded. It is time to obliterate those who would cause this to happen using every means at our disposal, including the most destructive and horrific weapons ever developed by man. If some civilians die along the way, they are unfortunate casualties of war.
If the terrorists can't get into the cockpit, they can't steer the plane to where they want.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
For all that Sadat expresses his "sorrow" there sure are a lot of PLO members doing the Lindy Hop.Go ahead and dance in the streets. As you sow so shall you reap.
they don't even know who it is yet you jackass! how can they plan a retaliation, let alone be carrying it out?!
you know your hole? the one you put pie in? SHUT IT!
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
but you have to admit, the two brothers could be interpreted as the WTC, and the great fortress could be either the Pentagon or the White House...
the great leader(probly GWB) has yet to succumb and the big city(NYC??) is not yet burning, but it could still happen, you never know...
i think this is all too F*cked up to be coincidence, but im still just a little scared at what else could happen in the next little while should they find out who orchestrated this attack
Actually, I noticed it too. I suspect it was done on purpose, after all, this is about getting attention and delivering a message. I heard some comments on the radio about this being the largest attck on the US since Pearl Harbor. Well, I suspect the backlash from this will leave whoever did it thinking twice about pissing off America as a whole again.
"The well-being of mankind, its peace and security are unattainable unless and until its unity is firmly established." - Baha'u'llah "The winds of despair are, alas, blowing from every direction, and the strife that divides and afflicts the human race is daily increasing. The signs of impending convulsions and chaos can now be discerned, inasmuch as the prevailing order appears to be lamentably defective." - Baha'u'llah "The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." - Baha'u'llah Official Baha'i Web Site
Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
a sad day http://scorpius.spaceports.com/~wtcdown/wtc-collap se.zip
(660+ KB)
Remove them from the face of the planet. That will fix it.
Alexandria Virginia
"anyone recommend a better country to move to? i'm getting sick of this place.." I suggest palestine.
There are 15 million potential blood donors in the NY region, and all air traffic is down, so I unless you're in the area, extra blood donations probably won't make any difference.
Also, in event like these, most people either die immediately or escape unharmed. I expect tens of thousands of dead, but not too many injuried.
Of course, if there are new attacks, a good blood supply will be good.
I'm O-Negative, but they don't want my blood. Once, after bicycling to a blood drive, my liver was working too hard (probably removing the shit from the fat I'd just burned), and produced enzymes in my blood saying that it was working too hard. The Red Cross thinks I have Hepatitis, and they have banned me FOREVER from giving blood. Haven't they ever heard of experimental error?
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
Despite slashdot being based around technology it is time for all of us to pray for those in this tragedy. Many of us are personally affected by this event.
All 12 Federal Reserve Banks and their branches are open and although their security is at a high level it is business as usual. The NYC Federal Reserve Bank, which is a few blocks from the WTC, is still open, as is the bank in Washington D.C.
Why did I lurk so long before registering for a Slashdot account? I could have had a Slashdot ID of less than 100000.
--SC
You read fiction? I write it! Lemme know what you th
You propose:
"If you claim responsibility, you are dead."
This doesn't work.
Best way for an enemy of an org. to take it
out would be to pose as one of their people
and claim responsiblity for WTC.
I agree with utterly destroying those
responsible.
You can find a listing here and good old MapQuest here.
My boyfriend and I are going to Goveurnor's on the Lower East Side. You can also call 800.933.BLOOD (800.933.2566) for locations, but good luck getting through.
Peace, everyone.
I believe it was actually a representative from Pennsylvania. It disgusted me how he was using this horrible occasion to point fingers at whoever happened to be his political opponent. What scum.
So far, the US gov. pressured Israeli gov. not to act upon terrorist attacks. It all gets a new perspective when stuff blow up in NYC and Washington and not just in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.
The Middle Eastern crazies are all muslims. The 8-armed godesss and the elephant god (seperate entities) are of the Hindus. The muslim crazies consider jews, hindus and americans their enemies. So the 8 armed and the elepjhant god are your enemy's enemies.
You really won't be able to anything about any of this if you refuse to inform yourself, you know.
"The United States is in a state of war."
"This is WAR."
Canadian and Mexican borders are now being closed according to news sources (CBC, NBC). Some are still open, but will soon be closed to ALL ground traffic.
I come from Northern Ireland and I can assure everyone here that the type of people that did this are the same sort of people that Americans have supported with fund-raising events for decades.
This is a horror of a crime, but it was bound to happen. If you throw your weight around everywhere you have to accept that some day someone, good or evil, will object and in the latter case, they won't care too much about who gets in the way.
"Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
So what you are saying is that it is OK to harm Afghani or Sudanese women, children, and innocent civilians but it is not OK to harm innocent US civilians.
Would I like to see your face when Bush determines that it was someone from (say) Dallas Texas and shoots a few cruise missiles into the town center to punish those responsible... Sure, there might be some collateral damage but THEY HAVE TO BE TAUGHT A LESSON!!!
No sig for me - too lazy to fill one in...
No country could get away with attacking a civilian target. If it were a country they would be fighting the world. It is a radical who will be claiming responsibility soon. As will many others who aren't involved. I'd say religious motivation, probably islamic (no offense). Also, its odd how they hijacked the planes. Its almost impossible to get in the cockpits. Either you'd have to have the flight crew involved... Honestly I'm thinking what if the auto pilot...
But enough speculation.
This is a tragic day indeed.
Washington Governor Arthur B. Langlie (1900-1966) made the following statement shortly the United States declared war:
"Your state government is prepared and ready to perform every defense task which has or will be assigned to it. The State of Washington is on the frontier of a great war. We do not know what the future holds in store for us. We do not know what trials we must go through or what sacrifices we will be called upon to make. We do know what is at stake. We know that our country, our liberties and our very homes are threatened. We are individually and as a nation being called upon to make good our pledge of allegiance to flag and country" (Seattle Star).
"All I can tell the "lesser of two evils" folks is that if they keep voting for evil, they'll keep getting evil."-Lp.org
I will probably regret expressing this opinion once emotions have calmed down, but after watching circa 50k people die live on television I, at this moment, have to agree.
This is war.
We find whoever did this. We kill them. We kill their families. We kill their friends, and we kill their allies.
If it turns out to be a domestic attack then the situation is more complicated, as protecting our democracy becomes paramount over revenge or even complete justice. However, if, as it appears, this was a foreign act (such as Bin Laden), then we should exterminate those who did this (such as his organization) as well as any and all who gave the enemy aid and comfort (e.g. hypothetically, if it was bin laden, Afghanistan most definitely, perhaps others as well).
The only way to secure one against these kinds of attacks is to completely exterminate those who would commit them. This is most definetely war, and we have the means to put an end to this, perminently.
We should do so.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
We have long been way to nice when it comes to disputes with other countries. We tolerate too much when it comes to terrorism. Our enemies with their Jihad issues an eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth. Let's adopt their ways, turn them into glass!
:-( --- argh. Despair, I owe again.
In times of Emergency, churches and such are turned into makeshift hospitals,etc.
Now on the internet I am seeing various un-slammed websites(fark,etc) are now turning into realtime newsites, etc as fast as they get the info on what's going on today.
Intresting. Especially when ESPN is now reporting on the attacks.
[eom]
Presumably in many other areas as well. There is a special service at Grace Cathedral in San Francisco at noon PDT to mourn the victims and pray for peace. Also tomorrow at 6 pm.
sulli
RTFJ.
Regardless, the hatred is mutual, and I don't even know who you are.
Cunning linguists
September is the 9th month... Just as I wrote this date earlier, I realized that the date was 911.
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Israel currently prevents any foreign air flights to enter its air space. All foreign traffic is directed to nearby airports.
world war one??
There's been a lot of posts talking about how we need to strike back, and hard. I hope everyone here realizes that's what the terrorists want.
Terrorism is not about strategy or tacticts, these acts were not battles in a war. they served no strategic or tactical purpose, the group that perpetrated these acts is not going to move in and conquer, or anything like that. The purpose of terrorism is to generate fear and political tension.
All this commotion the politicians are making is exactly what the terrorists wanted. They have succeeded in the first steps of disrupting American lifestyle. By making huge reactions we're fulfilling the terrorists goals.
What we need to do is first keep calm and tend to our victims. Second we need to take a few days (at least) to cool off and evaluate ways we can improve security and information access (why was it so hard to figure out which planes crashed? can't we keep track of where a plane is in the air?). Finally, and most difficult, we need to figure how to go back about our lives. We need to show that terrorism is an impotent tool.
The ultimate plays for Madden 2006
Im setting up a mirror of Neck_of_the_Woods' pictures.
http://mesmerism.net/wtc.html
I think that at least 10k died. Not only the people who work there, but also many brave fireworker are still missing :-(
-- just a geek - trying to change the world
Consider giving blood components.
I know a lot of places run people in to "donate" plasma - and then give the donors a check for a ~1 - 2 donation. The check structure is based so that those who need the income, are prompted to go in on a regular basis:
1st week:
Day 1 $25
Day 2 $15
2ND WEEK:
DAY 3 $20
DAY 4 $25
These places take in just about anyone, but test blood before thaey take it. There is usually long lines and it's uncomfortable.
If you don't like taking money for blood donations, check out Carter Blood Center. They will accept platelet donations 2x per week, and repay donors with the standard cookie / apple juice fare. It's also a longer process - about 1n hour, and you've got needles in both arms. But the nurses have to totally wait on you, and they let you bring in movies to watch, or watch the ones there. An excellent setup. As an added bonus, there's the excuse to drink two extra milkshakes a week - this is recommended to make up for the Calcium and protein loss.
I have just found out that some family members of mine that where in the pentagon got out ok. My heart goes out to those that don't know and also those that have gotton bad news. Needless to say. I am deaply hurt buy these actions like the rest of us here in the US. I am also on my way out the door to give blood if any of you can please do the same the country will beed it bad.
People give me funny looks when I rant and rave about how we're not as safe as we like to think, they think we're not vulnerable. They laugh when I tell them I want a bomb shelter. Well, I'm sure they won't be laughing now. We've got a long ways to go in this world and I for one don't know if we'll make it.
Mr. Cynical =D
plop
Look at all the news sites running high bandwidth pages. The web is being put through the wringer right now. The true impact of this event will show itself over the months to come. This smells like the beginning of some hard times.
The time diff between the first crash and the second is only about 20 minutes. I think most of the people didn't need to be told that they need to evacuate Tower 2 after Tower 1 was attacked. Most NYers do have that whatever attitude, that much is true, but sticking around would be stupid. Having been in there a number of times, I don't think the majority of the people had the time or even the ability to escape but I pray I'm wrong.
BOSTON SUCKS!
First, unless the major news outlets are keeping it hushed up, we don't even know who is responsible for this, and speculation by all the news media and politicians is reckless and just adding to the atmosphere of hysteria. If it turns out to be Mid-East terrorists, fine. But until we know for sure, I'm getting tired listening to all these speculations.
Second, I'm getting sick and tired of listening to American's disbelief and shock over this tragedy. How is it that the US can enjoy the highest standard of living and quality of life in the world? How is it that the US consumes the most resources, far more than its far share, in the world? Do Americans really think that all of our wealth has just been willingly handed to us by grateful people throughout the world? Do Americans really think that we have no blood on our hands?
I'm sick about these terrorist attacks. When I first heard about them this morning, I felt sick to my stomach. But I feel that way about any terrorist attack in any country, not just in the US. And unless you work at being ignorant, you will know that the US has been responsible for its share of terrorism throughtout the world.
We can continue to feel free to go about our daily lives, enjoying our excess of resources and high quality of living, never asking where it all came from or why the majority of people in the world don't seem to enjoy the same. But we have no right to be shocked that someone out there doesn't like us.
I guess we should let all the criminals out of prison too....
... punishment will be swift, and we will probably only hear about it after the fact.
Maybe a better idea is to just let the prisoners out in your neighborhood, let them steal, rape and murder, while you stand on a soapbox spouting your message of peace and your desire to compromise.
The people behind this are criminals. And *if* co-ordinated in *any* fashion by a recognised country, said country in fact just declared war against the USA.
I imagine with the multiple attacks, the responsible parties will become obvious fairly quickly
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
all i can think is that this will only mean tightened security. i don't doubt that this might be cited for any number of measures to quash our right to bear cryptography. people will wonder who these folks are, and how they organized. "why," they shall wonder, "didn't the cia or fbi intercept their phone calls, emails, or whatever, and stop them before they acted?"
what do you think? are they right? do we need to give up our right to privacy to stop tragedies like this? i for one fear what may come of this, ontop of the seemingly staggering death count.
but the enemy is within.
Everybody knows that the french pulled this.
http://www.un.org/News/dh/pages/lookingahead.html
Tuesday, 11 September
The General Assembly will formally open its 56th session, selecting a new President. The Secretary-General will open the day's work by ringing the Peace Bell at UN Headquarters.
The Secretary-General will also speak to the Council on Foreign Relations on preventive action.
The Security Council will hold consultations on the UN Mission in Ethiopia and Eritrea (UNMEE).
At 11:15 a.m., there will be a press conference to launch the UN Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD) Africa Report, with Odyek Agona, an UNCTAD economist.
Not sure if this has anything to do with anything, but it seemed relevant.
Which is why most Doctors don't go for the same :-)
treatments they so happily prescribe
Weren't Taliban Mudschaheddin "freedom" fighters once allies of the US fighting against bad bad commies from Russia? Didn't the US even provide anti aircraft missiles so that freedom fighter could shoot down airplaines (civilians too). How does your own medicine taste?
And wait some time and you may find out that these latest US allies, the UCK "freedom" fighters from Kosovo will behave pretty nasty too. But happily human memory is so short lived.
I have seen some stories about how Usama bin Ladin uses messages embedded in jpgs and posts coded messages on porn sites and sports chat sites.
Last night, I found thousands and thousands of posts on alt.binaries.misc with the message header "***** make kaka here now." with ***** being replaced with names (e.g. Bob, Skunkie, Vrodok, etc. No, Osama wasn't one of the names.) I tried to open a couple up, and they contained gibberish unlike the regular base64 coding. Encrypted messages? Anybody else seen these? Does anyone know how to decode these? Maybe it's just a coincidence and it's kiddie pr0n, but maybe it's not. Somebody definitely make kaka here now.
"Bin Laden, a Saudi millionaire and Islamic militant, believed to be in exile in Afghanistan, was blamed for the 1998 bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in which 224 people died.
An Arab journalist with access to bin Laden told Reuters in London that the renegade Saudi three weeks ago had warned of an "unprecedented attack" on U.S. interests. "
-c
I have discovered a truly remarkable proof which this margin is too small to contain.
we should start playing their game - just as in the Revolutionary war we changed our tactics to guerilla warfare, ie, hiding in bushes and ambushing like the Native Americans. Maybe we should resort to terrorism? Maybe we should resort to assasinations?
You know what, you must be the most brainwashed person to ever post here. US has done nothing but 'f**k' up everything everywhere else in the world.
/SARCASM/
I come from a place where we see you gsys as a bunch if lazy, overpowered freaks. Yes, you impose Holywood. But guess what, you are not what you think you are in the eyes of others. Most time you do more harm than good.
A couple of examples from reacent past:
Vietnam,
Balcans,
Africa (forget the name of the country)
Cold War... Yea this one helped the European economy a lot../SARCASM/ Man thanks for all you have done. We could never survive without the allmighty US of A!
My condolences to all that grieve in this tragedy.
are you dumb!!! there was a war over there , that stuff as stupid but at least there was a war!!! dumb ass
I always liked Canada, but I truly salute you for your statement. It was truly the first thing that made me laugh and smile today. I needed a smile, even if is only temporary.
Thanks
Jason
Ever feel like you are driving the getaway car?
Yeah, Pearl Harbor was a surprise attack. Antietam was the bloodiest single day in American history - 26,134 casualties. Three days in Gettysburg cost 51,112 casualties.
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball
i would just like to say that i am sure many people feel that this is something a long time comming for the united states, yes i am a citizen of the united states but i do not feel that who ever did this was justified in any form or fashion it was a cowerdly act of terrisom. I would also like to comment on how the use of online media and general media has affected this situation. Personally i feel that the amount of media suronding this subject will only worsen things. I first heard of this while in school and thanks to the media i have heard many many conflicitng stories. But i have found the internet to be much more realiable source than i would have excpected i am just interested to see how this will progress, and wether or not a news site such as slashdot that reaches milllions will adversly affect this.
Also i feel all flags should fly half staff
--WE Find True Genius In The Most Extreme Cha0s--
irc.afternet.org
#cyberealism
Silenz.
When I'd first heard about the first plane crashed into the WTC, before even the second plane crashed I stopped and said a prayer to our Lord asking Him to show mercy to the people responsible for this tragedy and to help and bless the families of the victims. I asked Him to help enlighten the perpetrators of this tragedy, to show them that this sort of violence was unnecessary. Prayers for the people responsible for this was one of the first things I thought of, and I certainly cannot be the only Christian to do so.
Shalia
It should be noted that plasma can be donated every 48 hours prn for use. Plasma is mainly used for preemies, and in this case, burn victims. From what they told me, if you are a burn victim and don't get enough plasma, you die.
Plasma is just the fluid portion of your blood. The process takes about 45min with a machine that looks like a dialysis machine. I've done it before, boring, but real easy to do. I suggest if you want to donate, think about plasma. If you drink enough Gatorade/water, you can come back two days later and do the same thing. Call the RedCross if you are interested. I'm sure they need it right now.
Okay, Ive taken ten minutes and rationalized there motives. Now I don't just want they dead but the culture that spawned them. By best estimates so far 10k+ dead, that equals or beats some countries. They wanted terror, they won't get it. They get our anger, which will be far more destructive and deadly. Revenge is a dish best served cold. I can wait a bit. Anyone else?
What am I missing here? Why isn't Britain or other close allies doing this? What does Israel think is going on here?
I am missing something, right?
If youre saying something out of the bible, you should have READ IT !
so in Luke 5:38 Jesus said:
5:38 "You have heard that it was said, `An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, do not resist the evildoer. But whoever strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well. And if someone wants to sue you and to take your tunic, also give him your coat. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to the one who asks you, and do not reject the one who wants to borrow from you.
(http://www.bible.org/netbible/mat.htm#5)
I am ashamed to be part of the human race today. For those of you who don't know, a terrorist organization today attacked, deliberately and without apparent provocation, the World Trade Center towers in NYC, the Pentagon, and apparently even the State Department. They did this not with bombs or missiles, but with hijacked passenger planes. Using human life to end human life. Tens, possibly hundreds of thousands of people are dead due to this act. I have not yet heard what reasons the terrorist organization that claims responsibility for this act (Democratic Front for Palestinian Liberation, or some other idiocy). But there is no reason that could ever be valid for such an attack. Such an act is a product of utter and complete cowardice, and I say now that whoever is responsible for this, deserves nothing less than the worst possible punishment we as a race can devise. They may justify their acts by saying that the United States is some sort of evil nation, but no amount of lame excuses could justify the loss of even a single human life in the name of what amounts to nothing more than empty rethoric. I am deeply ashamed to be in the same species as the individuals responsible for this action. An act such as this cannot go unanswered, and yet, I almost fear the answer we give even more than this attack itself, for the nature of our response, both as a nation and as a race, will say much about our nature as human beings. I am not a religious man, but today, I'm praying, for all of us.
A part of me, a naive, innocent part, dares to hope that after witnessing such an act, we may understand the true value of human life once and for all, and put to an end the petty, ridiculous differences that we give so much importance to, and that lead to so muhc violence and needless loss of life. But I know that this will not be so. This act may well the beggingin of a war, or worse, a War. It makes me feel like I have been personally cheated out of a dream, and I cannot even begin to imagine what it must be for those directly affected by this attack. I feel powerless to act against this, yet do somethig I must. All I can do for now is write here and express my outrage, my anger, my disillusionment, my fear and my weak hope for something better to rise from the ashes of this disaster. I am desperate to find something more I can do.
-out.
"Two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first one." - Albert Einstein
This has been a sad day, and the half-cocked, gung ho reaction of most of the people out there, while understandable as an expression of their grief and outrage, is also completely the wrong way to go. Large scale retaliation will only make things worse. Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating doing nothing. The people who committed this act should be tracked down i.e a serious investigation into which terrorist organisation is responsible. But it is likely that this involves only a relatively small amount of people. This is not an excuse for retaliation against an entire country - the argument that the country from where the terrorists originate( which might possibly be more than one) share the blame because they haven't done enough to stop the terrorists, is flawed. Firstly,most of the countries in question don't have the resources for adequate health, education or even military, let alone for internal manhunts of a terrorist organisation. Secondly, even if the country in question is antagonistic towards the united states, and so doesn't hunt down it's terrorists for political reasons - this shouldn't be interpreted as an action by that government, but as wilful negligence, - a crime but a lesser one - not worthy of warfare against an entire people!! So what should be done : 1)as I said, find the people responsible (and make damn sure you've got the right people) then take action - something directly against the people in question(I'm talkin' surgical). 2) Tighten security - how the hell does a plane manage to get within spitting distance of the Pentagon. I'm sure there are a lot of difficult practicalities, but this tragedy should be enough of spur to overcome them. So don't do anything until your blood pressures have lowered a bit - emotional murderous responses are understandable as an initial reaction but as the considered reaction of a civilised democratic government - NO WAY!
For those in the UK (who may be unable to get through to the US), the UK Foreign office has issued a number: 020 7008 0000.
Retaliation can come in many forms, and we have many options as to how to handle this. But what have we done to deserve this? Did we somehow provoke the attack, whether by a single act or years of accumulated hatred? I hear that the Palastinian people cheer, though their leaders do not outwardly. Our nation is not without enemies in this world, but our intentions have been good. Do we deserve this? What point is someone trying to make?
That is not to say that we are responsible, not directly, but perhaps we have engrossed ourselves in affairs too complicated to escape from without some major burns. Shall we fight fire with fire, or water instead? Obviously, what we've been doing so far has brought down the WTC. The time has come to do something different.
bitman_squared@hotmail.com
Afganistan Taliban have said this operation is too big for someone like the main suspect Osman Bin Laden (no idea - someone correct his name!) to undertake.
Sheesh, that doesn't leave us with any obvious supsects then. Unless this was a joint operation between many groups.
then, anything short of a full invasion/takeover of Afghanistan by the US, Russia and our allies will be a failure of response. The American people must press Bush to undertake a very massive response no matter who the perpetrators and their host nation is. This is *not* a time for peace.
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
I guess it makes sense...If you have the bandwidth and servers, you owe it to people to post pictures and information...If anyone is still looking for updates on the web...
ESPN.com has quite a bit of coverage on the attack:
http://espn.go.com/main.html
And I've found that the newspaper sites haven't been completely swamped:
http://www.newyorktimes.com/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
http://www.boston.com/
Also while I'm posting this list of links, I might as well mention that you can search for your local chapter of the American Red Cross at http://www.redcross.org and obviously for people living outside of the United States, donating blood through your own country's Red Cross/Crescent Society can't hurt:
http://www.ifrc.org/address/rclinks.asp
My questions are because I'm unwilling to think that 40,000 people in the building = 40,000 deaths. There was a good period of time between the first plane hitting and the second hitting, and then a period of time before the buildings collapsed. It is my hope that many survived and made it out.
Dude, do you know how much time it takes to evacuate a 120 store building???
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
go to http://worldtradecenter.com
how chilling.
Reason, free market capitalism, and individualism
Lou Gertsner posted the following announcement to IBM's internal network a few minutes ago.
------------
Dear Colleague
To: IBM Colleagues
From: L.V. Gerstner, Jr.
Subject: Today's Tragic Events
Dear Colleague:
As today's tragic events unfold, I know that IBMers around the world are anxious for news about the health and safety of our colleagues. I'll take just a moment to tell you what IBM has done immediately in the wake of these terrorist attacks.
Of course, the thoughts and prayers of IBMers worldwide are with all of those who have been affected. The welfare of our people is our foremost priority. We do have a small number of IBMers whose offices are located in lower Manhattan, and we're working urgently to account for them, as well as all of our colleagues across New York City and Washington, D.C.
While no IBM facility has been directly affected, every IBM colleague should use discretion as they conduct their business today. We will continue to monitor this on a global basis, and adapt our business operations as necessary and prudent.
In the coming days, the full resources of IBM will be turned out to assist our customers in their recovery efforts and to government authorities.
I know that IBMers everywhere stand ready to aid and comfort their colleagues and support the customers who will need our help. In the face of these incomprehensible acts, we will do all that we can -- as individuals, and as an institution. That, and remember the victims in our prayers.
Lou
at the very least, we should find the orginzation responsible and skin each member.
-c
I have discovered a truly remarkable proof which this margin is too small to contain.
In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
- Nostradamus 1654
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/sep2001/nhlbi-10.htm
I live in Tampa. MacDill AFB has locked down and is the home of the Central Command, which the logistics and control center for the MidEast. There is a large contengent of heavily armed MP's
guarding the gate. VERY throughly searching all persons that need to go to work there.
Barksdale AirForce Base is a SAC (Strategic Air Command) base. The base is the home of the B52's
is very secure and does have an underground bunker for those wondering why the President was flown there.
What REALLY pisses me off is the 100's of millions
of dollars that our government have been spent on 'cyberwar', persecutions of intellectual property 'crimes', and other vaporous made up problems when we do obviously have real world problems that should have been addressed.
There does exist the technology that could have lessoned the chance of this getting by the airport
security. Our priorities have been skewed and now
we've been caught in Pearl Harbor fashion.
How do we stop suicidal crazies like these? Easy. Kill them. All. Any questions?
Good point. If I may toss out a theory...
Attacks make Americans willing to trade liberty for security. Laws get passed to take away liberty, but are lax on actually implementing security (real security is a lot more expensive than the illusion of security that, for instance, the NSA and CIA have been giving us). However, the take-away in liberty does allow (short term) profits to the currently-largest organizations, which might otherwise be threatened if just anyone could do an innocuous activity that could become a terrorist action. (Anything that can disrupt large organizations, no matter its other uses, is potentially useful to terrorists.) Some of the take-away will be labelled as "temporary", but will happen to remain on the books for a long time (maybe someone will point out that actual "temporary" laws have, at the least, sunset provisions). And, of course, media attention is diverted away from the SSSCA (and maybe other similar issues) just long enough for it to gain momentum.
It'd be totally ironic if it turns out the party responsible was a McVeigh wannabe trying to thwart the American government and the corporations that (in their opinion) bought it. Or if it was some faction that thought the lax, free American culture was threatening their rigidly-controlled police state - in which case, would not this extra security be the fastest way to cave in to their demands?
God, do you have any idea of what you're talking about!?
Have you no sense of the global community in which we all live? You cannot allow religiously led nations to perform acts of aggression because their mystical "God" book says they should. This is especially true of nations that can so dramatically effect the global economy!
If you want to see a horrible world, let the global economy fall apart. So many "bad thing" situations come to mind it's staggering.
When it's all said and done, humans are animals and self preservation is RULE NUMBER ONE. Come to terms with your ignorance and just remain quiet. -Shinn
I doubt that Anwar Sadat, the long-dead president of Egypt, expresses much of anything anymore.
Yassir Arafat, however, did say that he did not approve of the attack. Yeah, whatever.
Heard on CBC radio, about 13:50 EDT.
The decision made to initiate this level of attack was made by someone else, who apparently never read the history books to learn what Americans do when someone attacks us in this fashion. We retaliate, in spades.
Yes, there will be a lot of people in danger in whatever other part of the world we have to go to, in order to get to those responsible. And yes, there will be innocent blood spilled. The kind of cowards who perpetrate these kinds of attacks will hide behind them, thinking themselves safe. But we'll have the memory of our own innocents in mind. And when we've finished, assuming our politicians don't cave in to those who think appeasement is the answer and stop us too soon, then anyone in the future who wants to try this will certainly think twice.
Barbaric? Perhaps. Sometimes, you have to meet the problem head on. And destroy it.
Believe nothing, not even if I say it, if it violates your sense of reason -- Buddha
Straits Times in Singapore has a large section on the incidents today.
wether or not it actually helps is irrelevant.
they bombed us, and we have to respond.
otherwise it's like we're saying that it's okay to bomb us. (yes, i know that we were hit by planes, but they work a lot like bombs when you run them into things)
what amazes me is that Hardcore terrorists are denouncing these actions.
i'm not saying we should go to war - i mean, this could be the actions of a small minority in some country. but do we want to wait for a 'second wave'?
/zard
"God is Great!" -- unnamed person celebrating in the streets of Palestine.
Let me try to state this in a non-troll:
It is good to see people on this site reaching out to each other in sympathy and empathy, but when you say, "God bless", which god do you mean? The god of the people that performed this act? Or the god of the victims?
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
is anybody mirroring the avi/mpg files? I can't get to them from here
If you plan on helping
Visit American Red Cross at RedCross.org
Type your zip code to find your local Redcross chapter or call
1-800-GIVE-LIFE to make an appointment to donate blood.
It took this to make you realize that the stuff that /.'ers bitch about is petty???
A colleague sent me this link.
The article was written about 1 hour after the attacks on the World Trade Center. I think the last paragraph sums things up very well:
"Let nobody think that Americans are incapable of facing this foe and
defeating him. Let nobody think that this country is any less able to
"face the naked days" than she was in 1861, in 1917, in 1941 and 1950.
We shall rise to this. We shall take our revenge. We shall absorb
these blows, and strike back a hundred times harder. Let America's
enemies crow today: Tomorrow they will tremble, and weep."
Verizon is asking everybody in the DC area to stay off of ANY phone line unless it is an emergency.
Verizon didn't turn off their automated calling system which called to tell us that the call-waiting service we had ordered had been switched on, and that we could listen to instructions on how to use it.
I'm in a state of shock somewhat.
To those that think that retaliation is not the answer.... Look. The amount of people who have died is most likely more than the amount that died in Perl Harbor. It maybe MORE then the amount of Americans that died in Vietnam! If that many innocent civilian people died in this terrorist attack, then imagine if they hit again with an even larger attack. What if they used biological weapons. If we don't retaliate, its open season on us. It's open season on anyone they have a problem with.
To not act is giving them the green light. What we need to do is provide methods to not only stop them before they have a chance to board those planes, etc... but to stop them before they start trying to plan.
My thoughts go out to those who have lost any family and friends in what has transpired today.
Aliens? Magnetic Rings?! Bah! Who needs that when we have
All you IBM geeks and anyone else in the Hudson Valley (~60 mi. north of NYC), head to Building 330 at the East Fishkill site; HVBS has a permanent location there and will take your donation.
Taken from the New Jersey side at about 10 a.m., except the last one, which was taken about an hour later. What words cannot describe, I hope these pictures have captured.
im not from US but from asia, but my initial reaction to this one is, any counter strike would only worsen the situation. us citizens, pls understand why these things are happening. i symphatize for the deaths of ur brothers and sisters.
this lesson tells u guys that even if u think u are the worlds toughest superpower, u can never underestimate and oppress these litte guys in the middle east.
consider a little moth that gets into ur eyes, so little, it will make u cry and wince in pain.
the german news channel n-tv reports that bomb threads have been made regarding the german stock exchange in frankfurt and the office building of germany's chancellor, gerhard schroeder.
might the wave of terror spread to western europe?
"What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence." -Wittgenstein
This is not funny.
Whoever mod'ed this up is probably in shock.
This is an unjustifiable attack on blameless people. I'm just hoping that some of my friends who work in the area aren't dead under tone of falling masonry and burning aviation fuel. Ha Ha Ha.
If these unspeakably evil and misguided people had wanted to make some kind of point they could have done it at night, when no-one was there.
This is my first posting on slashdot, I'm just sorry that it's under these circumstances.
The auditorium of the Metlife building (1 madison avenue, just north of 23rd street) has been setup as an emergency blood donation center.
Just heard a report on the radio that Israel has put everyone in the army (active/reserve/inactive) on alert, and that has struck enough fear into a large number of terrorist organizations for them to call and essentially say "It wasn't us, we swear."
Also been hearing reports about what's essentially parties in the street in different Middle Eastern countries in support of the attack. Probably not the best place to ask, but is anyone actually anywhere near that environment that might have a more verifiable view?
'Life is like a spoonful of Drain-O, it feels good on the way down but leaves you feeling hollow inside'
Ok, dude, put the D&D books down and back away from the computer...
n/t
Drawing parallels between terrorists and Hitler are inappropriate.
Hitler was the leader of a nation, therefore the nation of Germany was a legitmate target for military strikes.
There are some nations that sponsor terorist activities and those government should be targeted, but the terrorist organizations are self appointed, and not representatives of any specific nation or nationality.
Also quit the lets invade BS. That sort of rhetoric is easy when you're not the one on the ground with a weapon in your hand. I'm a soldier (infantry) and I will be. If my commanders order me to go I will, and I do believe we should retaliate, but when a 17 year old computer geek screams invade all he/she does is look like ignorant asshole.
I personally am damn happy we have Bush as president right now. Sure he's gonna keep his own ass safe, but only so he can raise some hell when they figure out who's responsible.
As always ...Thank You Canada. You are great neighbors!
I wrote that line before you sucked off my first cock and I had to grow a new one.
I can't stand it when people steal my material and then do around posting it anonymously.
Until war is declared, our freedoms should be protected by the Constitution, but now I fear that even that may no longer be enough.
As to whether we need to give up our freedoms to prevent this, I say NO! How tight is airport security already, how much of a burden upon weary travelers, and this still happened? Take away the means of crime and new means will be found. Take away the reasons for crime and this garbage wont happen! (Dang terrorist have gone and made me angry now!)
bitman_squared@hotmail.com
... are going like hotcakes. I checked Network Solutions this morning an hour or so after the first reports and you cannot get anything associated with 9112001, 9-11-2001, sep112001, 11sep2001, september11, sep11, 11sep, 20019091, or 2001-9-11.
One hopes these domains are going to people who have something to say about the event, and not just squatters or CNN.
WGST News Radio is reporting that lines at Red Cross blood donation points in Atlanta are 6 to 8 hours deep, and that people should return Wednesday.
It could be Muslims. It could be Christians. It could be Athiests, (White|Black|Yellow|Red|Purple) supremacists, anarchists, fascists, disgruntled pilots, almost anybody. I am not blaming any of the above groups; I am demonstrating that we just don't know.
Here's what we do know. This was a group of people (at least four, one for each aircraft) rather than one person. Those who carried out the plan (rather than any possible planners we don't see yet) were willing to die for this. They were trained for this mission (highjacking an aircraft is not an easy job today, and the fact that we have heard of no failed hijacking attempts today implies that all attempts were successful; we didn't have four successes in sixteen attempts or whatever). This implies premeditation and weeks of planning. Note that this also implies that the act was not a Columbine-type killing. The rash of Columbine events in the past few years show a lot of premeditation, but not the level of skill needed to hijack an aircraft.
Going from here to the conclusion that it must be some turban-wearing, gun-toting radical Islamic militants is a huge leap to a conclusion, and symptomatic of some deep seated hatred.
Let's not try to pin this on somebody until we get some more facts.
--The basis of all love is respect
The worst thing about violence is that it causes people who were previously non-violent to become violent. Don't let the terrorists make you one of them!
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Vietnam was stupid the Balkans (not Balcans) uh we weren't the only ones, Cold War...blame Russia. Africa...maybe Somalia or Libya? umm how'd we screw them up? and i sure hope your not french cause we could have jus let the nazis run your country, or if you're a brit we didn't have to help you gus and if you're chinese...we didnt have to help you either. (Nuke on hiroshima and nagasaki...)
You don't like America? I got 2 words, FUCK YOU! We frankly don't give a damn!
Derek Greene
"It is not the United States of America versus terrorism, but the free democratic world against terrorism".
"Acts of the terrorists will live in shame for eternity"
He is visibly shocked.
NATO have convened an emergency meeting 9:00 tommorrow morning. All UK forces are on highest alert all over the world. No flights over London allowed, all private flights grounded. No commercial flights will take off unless completely safe.
I personally am mildly disgusted by some of the mainstream media coverage I've seen of the aftermath. I really hate when obnoxious camera crews stick cameras in the faces of obviously traumatized survivors and ask inane questions like 'were you scared?', 'did you see anyone die?', or 'does this make you angry?'
Sheesh, I wish the media would a) let these people have some dignity, and b) quit asking so many stupid Sally Jessy-esque questions.
As a member of our US Military, I am willing to die to rid this world of the evil scourge. The people responsible for this will not stop now. Not everyone responsible died in the planes... someone ordered that attack. And I will do anything I can to get rid of that person.
Shalia - proud sailor hoping we can find the person/people responsible.
It may not be too difficult to figure out how events played out. The cockpit voice records in each of these planes should be VERY telling as to how these planes were taken over, who was doing it, and potentially why! Suicidal terrorists need to bring attention to their agenda in order to advance that agenda. I would expect them to be at least somewhat talkative as they were going down, especially since the presence of cockpit voice recorders is quite well known.
- StaticLimit
Anonymous sources said that The Japanese extremist group the Red Army is in fact responsible for the bombings, that their purpose was to "repay the United States for their crimes at Hiroshima."
The Japanese are offering support to the Americans, and to the American military bases in Japan. Stationed in Japan are 51,000 American military forces, which might be targetted for attack if indeed the terrorists are Japanese.
-- rompres
Except that in other countries the practice is to list the day first, then the month so it's 11/9 not 9/11. Also, isn't 911 only an emergency # in the US and not anywhere else?
In "Fight Club", the plot to take out the skyscrapers seemed cool and funny. And at the end, it seemed carefree and rewarding that the monoliths of capitalism were toppling, I'm sure everyone felt good about that.
Now seeing people jumping out of windows in terror, thousands crushed burned and killed, a city closed, an infrastructure disabled, and world on high-alert, it doesn't seem so cool anymore.
I feel the full effect of desensitization in the movies, and I am disturbed that I can't find the right words to communicate with friends who are in the midst of this crisis. Where can compassion be found? I'm not blaming the media for anything, I'm just sharply aware of the before and after I'm feeling toward fightclub vs. the real thing.
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
You know something's wrong when you see this, and your first thought is to cheer them on in their attempts to decapitate American government, in the hopes that this will stop them from passing laws to enslave you and your kind - with no empathy for the innocent lives lost, or accepting them as a reasonable, perhaps inevitable, cost for this goal. And then you realize, it's a botched attempt since whatever government survives will instinctively try to make America more repressive, thus encouraging yet more violent protests against American repression - either against foreign targets, or against its own citizens. And only then do you shed a tear for the wasted lives - not for the dead themselves, nor for their surviving friends and family, but because the objective they were sacrificed for was in vain.
What have we come to, that such a thought chain could seem reasonable to an ordinary American citizen?
I saw an interview with a man with the supposed highest IQ. His claim was that we cannot raise ourselves above the current system of punishment, retaliation, etc., etc. This system of war without a change in thinking. His proposal was to rank people on IQ. Move the highest IQs to world leader positions. The problem with the current system is the bell curve - because there are more average people in the world, the world will be an average place. He said we should screen people for history of diseases before allowing them to reproduce - thus eliminating certain diseases from the human race.
Leads to the GATACA senario, but isn't that utopia? Isn't that our only hope in a world of terrorism?
Hence the message! Do YOU know how long it takes to evacuate a 120 story building? I have absolutely no clue. I do know that there was roughly an hour or more between the initial strike and the collapse, so I'm hoping many did get out.
If he was really concerned, he'd give blood.
Maybe that's what we need to do -- round up everyone in the middle East and force them to have transfusions -- Muslims get a pint of Jewish blood, Jews get a pint of Arab blood.
I attempted to go to CNN, Fox News and MSNBC this morning and could get no response from their servers.
I do find it heartwarming that sites that normally have nothing to do with most types of news ( Slashdot, CNET, ESPN, etc.) are doing their best to help keep the flow of information going during this tragedy.
/tma
----
> The only thing they understand is violence.
I guess that's why Baskia, Northern Ireland and Isreal have so much problems with terrorism. Not enough violence.
> I don't care about a few Syrian or Afghani or whoever women and children in the face of *at least 50,000 innocent civilians* dying
As they did not care about a few civilians.
How many arabic civilians have to die for the american civilians?
How much more worth is the life of an american person than a arabic civilian?
You probably notice that your going a slippery road here.
BTW Afghani women and children are already dying by the hands of their "goverment".
>This is war. It's not pretty.
It's not war, it's terrorism. And it's in some way even worse. You don't have a clear enemy you can point on nor clear frontiers to defend.
"Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
Trust me...there was no car bomb at the State Department. When I heard that on whatever local news station I was watching at the time, I took a look out my window, and the State Department, one block diagonally from me, is still there. If a bomb went off at the State Department, I'd be the first to know.
"These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
If you're without a radio or TV in your office, try #CNN_Newsfeed on chat.cnn.com. It shows the closed captions for what's currently on-screen on CNN.
WTC Destroyed
All Exchanges Closed
Scary isn't it?
--toq
Since I can't get near a tv now I managed to get a video from someone. I have placed it here.
I hope they don't have "the bomb".
Found a link to the washington post's site, that has a live webcam pointed at the smoldering ruins at the pentagon.
a sh ingtonpost.com/wp-srv/mmedia/webcams/eyeondc.htm
http://a188.g.akamaitech.net/f/188/920/1m/www.w
Instead of blowing them up we can send them hugs. Because hugs have solved more problems then bombs right guys? And we can have a nice hippy orgy, smoke a fat joint, and then all our problems will be solved and the whole world will be a better place {:D Sounds great huh?
Do you think that the Palenstinians would like a hug? Perhaps while they celebrate the deaths of thousands of US civilians in their streets. I wonder how some of you anti-retaliation posters would feel if someone murdered your family and then celebrated in the streets?
Food for thought I hope.
The terrorist group that has organized this attack is probably the largest and most organized. But how big are they? they are by no means in size and sophistication as the US, and cannot fight face to face, but will have instead prepared an other extreme action.
The attacks today were prime targets for 2 reasons. Casualties, and media impact. This has severely shocked America and the rest of the world. What must be done in the future to produce such horrific results?
Even though it may have been performed by career terrorists, this was an infrastructure attack, designed to destablize.
A joint attack on WTC and Pentagon, the major financial and military centers in the U.S., is a direct physical attack against the practicioners of capitalism, and the command/control center of the organization that defends them. The method of attack also demonstrates the inherent weakness of skyscrapers and jumbo jets, two more vital pieces of infrastructure.
If we don't actually go to war over this, I will be more than surprised.
The American Dream went to hell in a handbasket when someone decided that "The Customer" was King, and the customer beli
Most of you people here have got exactly the wrong mentality. Where is your humanity? Do you people not realize that a lot of people have died today. All of our thoughts and efforts should be on councilling the family and friends of those who have died. We should be helping to find the living who are still under those buildings. 99% of the population should not be concerned with who did this!! The other 1% should be trying to figure out why this happened and what to do about it. We don't need a bunch of people who have no idea about such things walking around pointing fingers and acting like they know what they are talking about. Everyone who is doing this should be ashamed of yourselves for not having the decency to worry about the real problem, getting our friends and families safe.
I am not ashamed at all to admit I had tears in my eyes when I first heard the news. This is a horrible act by a small group of people. This is not war people. So please think before you point your fingers at someone. Because remember who ever did this had a reason to. And you (most anyway who read this) live in this country. That makes each of us partially responsible for what happened.
Don't even think of taking an innocent attitude at this. The US is not the friendliest country in the world. We have many enemies both in our borders and out. The way a country acts is directly proportional to the way it's people act. The government of this great nation does not act 100% freely from what the general desires of the populous want. (All you conspiracy theorist can say what you want, but if you really believe that the US government doesn't work this way then you need psycological treatment)
This rant is not pointless, and you will get no satisfaction from flaming me because deep down you know I'm right.
God. Please give the men and women the strength and courage to overcome tremendous hardship and prevail in the darkest hour. Let your loving light pierce through the rubble and show us the people. Give us the power to do super human feats and quickly bring this trajedy to and end. Allow us to prevail and grow stronger from this deed. Allow the country to pull together and show that American's can over come any obstical no matter how great. We will prevail and continue to thrive as a prosperous country. Please bless everyone, including those who have commited this act. For they too must face you in the end. Allow them to understand the horrible act they have unleashed on us and allow them the ability to repent. We will probably never accept and apology, but your infinite goodness can. Amen.
I've been getting emails from a friend at Globix, the giant internet exchange in southern Manhattan. Here is the latest news:
Globix is located on Centre Street south of Canal Street. Businesses south of Canal have been asked to evacuate. The dust from the WTC collapse has forced buildings to shut down their air conditioning. Only a few large computer operations can operate without normal air conditioning, but major exchanges, like the AT&T telephone building and Globix, have backup cooling systems that should hopefully operate in these conditions.
Globix engineers are taking care of major service problems and trying to prevent potential major problems so they can leave as soon as possible.
Globix is hooked into the 3 largest backbones that pass through the region, and at least one must still be operating. Email messages originating from Globix are making their way out, but messages sent to Globix are not coming in.
A telephone call to (212-334-xxxx) from NJ (856-672-xxxx) got through, but no calls to the 718 area code are working. I just received a call from a 212 phone as well.
My friend at Globix was walking to a class at Sun Microsystems at the World Trade Center when the first plane hit. His view of the collision was obscured, and he was not injured. He commented:
> I ran down to the woolworth building and stood
> looking in shock at the North tower, the smoke
> billowing out of it and the thousands of papers
> fluttering down against the blue sky. Suddenly
> I saw something hurtling down the side of the
> building. It was a man, limbs, tie and suitcoat
> flailing. several more followed. I turned and
> slowly walked back towars the sunny, newly
> renovated park in front of city hall.
>
> I heard the second explosion hit, and people
> began screaming and running past me.
>
> As I sit here at my comfortable nest of a
> workspace, my skin crawls, and I feel sick to
> my stomach. I have read about events this bad
> or worse a hundred times in the novels my
> father derisively terms storybooks, but the
> reality is completely incomparable. Perhaps he
> had a point.
>
Another friend of mine was in the 70th floor of the second building to get hit, and he made it out alive. I don't yet have the details on that.
Transportation update (from a Brooklyn friend):
Subway lines are running off and on, and bridges and tunnels are closed to cars. The W line was still bringing people into Manhattan at 9:30, but that has ceased. The N/R is now running above 14th Street. Pedestrian traffic is allowed on the Brooklyn Bridge and the Manhattan Bridge. People in suits have been streaming over these bridges into Brooklyn all morning.
Historical Note:
Today, September 11, is the 28th anniversary of the CIA-led coup that overthrew the democratically elected government headed by Allende in Chile. Why is this relevant? I feel an immense amount of anger towards the people who caused this, and I think the people who caused this are the murderers sitting in Washington D.C. who direct U.S. foreign policy. They recklessly inspire anti-U.S. sentiment in every other country in this world. We ruthlessly bombed civilian targets in Yugoslavia (including water purification sites); we starve the children of Iraq; we blockade Cuba for no good reason; we topple democratically elected socialist governments in order to install pro-U.S. dictatorships. My anger does not direct itself solely towards the government officials who have perpetrated these crimes. I am furious at the millions of Americans who voted for George W. Bush. They are responsible for putting into power a person who is walking all over international agreements about global warming and arms control. And anybody who sits by and pays taxes and watches our imperialistic military and State Department do its dirty work has to take some responsibility for these murders. WAKE UP AMERICA: THIS IS YOUR FAULT. No missile defense shield will protect us from the hate that is justifiably spawned worldwide by our pro-corporate foreign policy.
Experience of an anarchist:
When the mail carrier knocked on my door this morning, I was worried that I was about to be taken in by the FBI. If you know what I've been through, you would not think this was a paranoid reaction. There will be a witchhunt following these events, and the U.S. government will probably use it as an excuse to harass activists. Right now the joint anti-terrorism task forces around the country spend most of their money tracking and harassing the anti-corporate activists who have been targeting world financial summits. A good chunk is also spent on the Earth Liberation Front and the Animal Liberation Front, neither of which actually have any members; they are just slogans that autonomous cells apply to their acts of vandalism. Today's events show yet again that money spent on national security does not in fact serve national security, but rather serves the insidious ends of the people controlling this country. Expect there to be calls for more money to fund politically motivated witchhunts against the Left. Expect calls for outlawing consumer use of encryption.
Finally:
Eben Moglen, Columbia University Law Professor and general counsel of the FSF once said about the inevitable rise of encrypted communications:
I don't doubt that there will be downsides. You should accept the truth that harms will be caused, as harms are caused by free speech all the time. But don't let yourself be panicked about this. The world of the twenty-first century will be more free, and will continue to be, as the spooks often say, "a tough neighborhood." Indeed, some bombs will go off; there will be, in Stewart Baker's signature phrase, "some mangled, burnt bodies." You will notice that there are already. But fewer of them will be in Iraqi prisons; none of them will ever again be in a gulag or Lager maintained by a KGB or SS state with a tap on every telephone. And of that you should be very proud, because it is we who will have made it possible.
List of Planes That Crashed Today
Details on the planes that crashed Tuesday:
-American Airlines Flight 11: A Boeing 767 en route from Boston to Los Angeles. The plane was carrying 81 passengers, nine flight attendants and two pilots. The location of the crash has not been determined.
-American Airlines Flight 77: A Boeing 757 en route from Dulles Airport near Washington to Los Angeles. The plane was carrying 58 passengers, four flight attendants and two pilots. The location of the crash has not been determined.
-United Airlines Flight 93: A Boeing 757, crashed southeast of Pittsburgh while en route from Newark, N.J. to San Francisco. The plane was carrying 38 passengers, two pilots and five flight attendants.
-United Airlines Flight 175: A Boeing 767. The flight was bound from Boston to Los Angeles. It was carrying 56 passengers, two pilots and seven flight attendants. The airline would not say where the plane crashed.
What we know now...
The time for peace is over. We must identify who did this, find out where they are, go in after them, and wipe them off the face of the Earth. We will suffer more casualties doing it this way. Too bad. The death toll is going to exceed Pearl Harbor and approach if not exceed use of a tactical nuke. We are at war.
In the wake of this terrible tragedy, I'm beginning to feel that this could possibly be a domestic act of terrorism. Even the most advanced and highly-networked foreign terrorist organisation (Bin Laden seem to top the list) cannot coordinate and implement an attack of such magnitude and precision. I'm afraid it's Oklahoma all over again!
Maybe more tapping, eavesdropping, sifting, etc. will be on the way. Maybe the missile defense plan will be reconsidered to beef up intelligence. Or maybe those who commit such heinous acts will see, by the way the US conducts itself in the aftermath, that terrorism is not an effective weapon.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
OK, I don't see why there is a reason for all kinds of business, schools, etc to close down. It just shows are weakness in time of disaster.
I can see how it is important for the immediate areas surrounding the disaster, and for other areas where there is a threat. However, I think a lot of places are over reacting. You can't just close down the country.
http://www.wgops.com/cnn-mir/
Don't have the image yet, but will try to get it.
Anyone who's got stuff that should go up drop me a note, mloftis aht wgops dawt com. If you don't know how to make that a real mail, then you can just stay quiet.
I know his domestic policy was crap and he was a conservative republican... but in times of crisis, I would have no one else.
Jason
He's totally creeping out the Great One, eh...
Red Cross offices (in the Raleigh NC area at least) are being overwhelmed by donors and are asking everyone to call and make an appointment rather than just dropping by.
-Ben
> I for one cannnot wait for the reports of islamic
...because despite our emotions, we as Americans
> people being beaten to death by americans.
You, sir, are the "fscking idiot". Comparing all Islamics to Shiite terrorists is very much like comparing all Christians to the Branch Davidians. Perhaps you should pick up a book or two before you begin tarring innocents with your far-too-wide brush.
> It could be time for us to stoop to their level and kill innocent people.
This is lunacy. Killing innocent people is worse than pointless. If they're innocent, they have no connection to the perpetrators, so (A) the perpetrators won't care if they die, and (B) the innocents' relatives become your enemies as well. Grow up.
>
> still defer to reason (thankfully)...
Don't dare speak for me, fool. Your statement above demonstrates firmly that you don't defer to reason at all, instead blowing off impotent anger at people whose only connection to the crime is your deranged sense of community. You, who cannot get outside his own head and his own hate, are a demonstration of the very worst of egocentrism. Now go home, and tell your mother not to let you post again until you're an adult.
Virg
Hey, looks like the X-Files, Lone Gunman was right about something. Except the part where the good guys win.
The thing will destroy us is the thing we can't or don't stop. I hope its the "can't" option.
Peace.
Interactive Visual Medical Dictionary
The only way to stop these attacks is to kill those responsible - likely Osama Bin Laden. The WTC attacks were not in retaliation for previous U.S. counterstrikes - they are part of an ongoing jihad against the U.S. We (America) might see this as terrorism, but the terrorists see this as a war. They will continue to attack us whether we retaliate or not. A U.S. counterstrike that kills Bin Laden or whoever is responsible will not only "get even" with terrorists, but it will prevent future attacks by lopping off the head of the organization. Yes, this will make a martyr of Bin Laden to all the Muslim fundamentalists - but Bin Laden was not doubt swelling his ranks with fundamentalists before the attacks anyway, so what's the difference? Violence is regrettable, but necessary. Off topic, I'm sure that the Arab world will condemn these attacks. Maybe not Iraq or Iran, but Arafat has already expressed his sympathies, and the Taliban have assured us that Bin Laden has been kept in isolation from the outside world (the Taliban must be shitting their collective shalwar-kameeses right now, knowing that while no one will officially speculate, they are suspects #1). Even so, I'd be scared to be an Arab in America right now...
terrorist group prepared for aftermath?
wasn't it a suicide mission?
What would Brian Boitano do?
Am am in London and can say he is mistaken, the Wharf is now empty, and a couple of financial institutions have closed, but that's it.
We are used to terrorist threats. We have had the IRA blowing people up for over quarter of a century (though not on this scale).
Your in Frankfurt, fucking stop second guessing what's going on in London tell us what YOU *THINK* is going on. ARGH! LUSER!
I've just heard (second hand)that there has been a bomb threat at the world exchange plaza in downtown ottawa. A couple of my co-workers who were downtown this morning are stuck there because the underground parking garage has been sealed off!
I think coflow understands the situation. He's the first person I've found on slashdot so far who doesn't think like a damn treehugging hippie.
I'm usually proud to be a geek, until I heard the comments made by many of my fellow slashdot readers. I'm surprised at how many people don't support Bush and are calling him a coward. I personally don't even think the news channels should be reporting where he's going. He's playing smart so he can stay in the game long enough to win. He's got a great team and lots of good contacts at his fingers. He will take action and make this country proud.
And why are all of you still talking about Clinton? Isn't he the one who butchered the Defense budget anyway.
Sparta was a greek city state which had 100 slaves for every Spartan citizen. As a result of the huge number of slaves, the Spartans had a very high standard of living (huge houses, every whim indulged). This high standard of living came at a high price. The Spartans lived under constant threat of rebellion from the resentful slaves. Every Spartan male was trained from birth to be a soldier and was expected to be ready for the call to arms at a moments notice. Not a very relaxing way of life. Civil liberties were very limited in Spartan society.
Many people are advocating a hardline military response to the terrorist attacks. Although this may be emotionally satisfying, it will only increase the likelyhood of future attacks. As long as 4/5ths of the worlds people live in 3rd world conditions and see their family lands being purchased on a whim by wealthy forigners who earn more in an hour than they do in a year, as long as people in Cuba, Columbia, Palistine, Iraq and many other areas of the world feel they are being persecuted for their way of life, then there will be a long line of frustrated would be terrorists waiting to hijack planes to fly into buildings.
It is possible to subjgate these people through force. This approach as been used many times in history. Unfortunately if you look at the history books, frightening people by punishing them through force of arms only works if you apply truly horrific punishments on a massive scale. Witness the death camps in WW2, or the killing fields of Cambodia. Another approach that works is a massive suspension of civil liberties through a secret police force like the KGB in the USSR, or the reign of terror in revolutionary France.
If the citizens of the US want to live in safety from terrorist attacks then they must make a choice: Either work toward spreading the worlds wealth more evenly and allowing people outside the US to practice their chosen government and religion as they choose, or live like the Spartans and reduce civil liberties, develop an intrusive and sophistocated monitoring system for suspicious behaviour and have a powerful military force able to deal with situations quickly and live with the ugliness of bullying your neibours until they are too frightened oppose you in any way.
According to a witness interviewed on MSNBC, the people from the second building were NOT evacuated when the first building was hit. At that point, they had no idea what really was going on and assummed it was an accident.
AMEN! You set off a bomb, kill a few people, maybe a couple hundred - you might get away without retaliation. You destroy the World Trade Center Towers, smash a plane into the Pentagon, and kill thousands of Americans - you've gone to war with the United States. Whoever you are, you may be pretty happy with yourself, but you can't imagine what an event like this will do to the American psyche, ESPECIALLY if it was an Arab sect that did this (and even if it wasn't - Palestinians dancing in the streets???). Support for a free Palestine? GONE. Somewhat restrained responses to things like the Saudi apt bombings, the USS Cole Bombing? GONE. Americans don't take attacks like this lightly. One guy with a truck bomb changed the way America viewed terrorism and safety. This event will have a much broader impact.
All I know is IF bin Laden did this AND the Taliban continue to turn a blind eye, I for one will happily press the launch button of an ICBM to level the whole freaking country. No pin point attack with minimal collatoral damage - you harbor a terrorist you ARE a terrorist. Yeah, yeah, nukes, fallout, sucks for neighbroing countries and I realize that but you have to realize that many Americans WILL have these inflamed feelings and they won't be thinking about 'innocents' Call us hypocrits, callous, whatever. But if President Bush (first time I've called him that!) wants to drop every freaking conventional bomb we have on a country that knowingly harbored the people that did this - amen. If it was an American group that did this - I'll pull the switch myself or behappy to load the rifles.
My only hope is perhaps this will show missle defense to be the joke it is and maybe we can apply the billions Bush wants to spend on it on other more important things like finding the bastards that did this and improving security where we can without living in a police state. Oh - and I for one am MORE than happy to take a few billion from Missle defense, Social Security, WHATEVER to rebuild the World Trade Center in ALL its glory - we will NOT be cowed.
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
Is there any list online of the businesses in the WTC??? I really wnat to know if my friends are ok, I have a lot of banker/financial type friends.
Thanks!
What have I seen so far?
Death, poetry... it surely seems that massive elements of propaganda have already arisen.
Why is it that as a Non-American I found it hard not to wish Bush and his cronies dead after hearing some of their various statements - as ridiculous as that may be?
"A car bomb that was supposed to have gone off int front the State Department has been denied."
Really? I am watching BBC news on satellite and the front of the state department looks all black and chunky.
First off civilins in Afganistan are celebrating, throwing candy to eachother, and saying GOD IS GREAT, and THE US IS THE HEAD OF THE SNAKE.... So i can only speculate that it was an attack from Afganistan, the goverment there denies that it was them, and gives it condolences, but the civilians are celebrating wildly. 1 plane hit near camp david, about .5 miles away from it to be exact. The south tower was the first to be hit. 21 min later at 9:03 eastern time the eastern tower was hit, people jumped and fell from towers, at 930 am, pentagon it , 959 south tower colapses, and 30 min later, the other colappases, in pennsivania, i heard rumors of a car bomb going off in boston, near the airport, - which was the origin point of the 2 planes that hit the towers, there were secondary devices on all planes, some had 3rd devices, that is 30 min after they hit, 1st went off, then the 2nd after an hour . all flights in us and canada canclled, j crew in st.louis closed , afraid of terrorists ??? all tall office building evacuated in major cities, 200 firemen missing, that went into the WTC buildings when the planes hit before they fell. Rumors say that they will have 1 incident every hour today...car bomb suscpected outside the white house, , 6 planes hijacked.
some are rumors just saying what i hear.
more later....
i didnt know her real well but she worked in manhattan, ... anyone know?
marketing, vegan, caucasian,
I am an American citizen and I demand justice. I am going to write my representatives to encourage them to muster the full strength of the United States so that retaliation does indeed lead to more deaths, specifically of those who are directly responsible. This is an attack on our country, our values, and our way of life. If it was sponsored or facilitated by any foreign power, the United States should respond with its full might and fury against it. No meetings at the United Nation. No consultations with allies. No warning. Just death. There is a time for peace. Now is the time for war.
that's a stupid statement. there are a lot of countries that hate us. This kind of violence is commonplace to them in their own countries. of course they are going to celebrate. everyday they lose children and family members to bombings in their countries while America gets fat and happy.
I'm not saying it's right...but there could be a dangerous backlash...
there are a lot of foreign nationals that work here - i DO NOT want to send them to concentration camps.
we need to find out who is responsible. i don't necessarily think it's a good idea to flatten the first country who pisses us off.
i mean, let's say 5 guys from the US blow up a few buildings in some country. would you want to get Nuked for it?
/zard
According to Nostradamus, the next great war would start in the year of the first millenium, in the late-summer (august/september). A year ago, i read his book and watched for signs of something terrible happening, if only sub-conciously, but i guess i miscalculated: the first year of the millenium is 2001...
Anyone can say what he wants about him, but i'm afraid, in retrospect, Nostradamus was awfully correct.
I morn for the people who died in this attack, i morn for America, and i morn for the dark age the world has just entered.
I hope he will be wrong...
This sig is intentionally left blank
I posted a story (rejected) yesterday to slashdot about a "pro-Palestinian" web hoster being raided by an anti-terrorism unit. This was in Texas .
One of the knock-on effects of terrorism is the extension of powers to security forces - lots of incredible changes were made to U.K. legislation in response to the P.I.R.A.: things like removal of the right to silence, the ability to be held on suspicion(!) for up to two weeks, trial by non-jury courts.
I hope that American citizens aren't bamboozled into giving their security forces undue powers that can be misused.
If you want war against those who caused a national crisis, look at the assassination that lead to World War I. Retaliation, and pointing blame to third parties lead us to a war of trenches, mass-scale slaughters, and a war only to be supersceded by another war caused by World War I, also known as World War II.
And the deprivation also caused the Germans to look for a scapegoat, which led to the Holocaust, which lead to the need for an Israeli state, which lead to Israel, which lead to the exiled Palestinians, (....) which leads right here today.
Try Canada. But you'll have to give up your love of a "right to bear arms" before you coming here because that is not our way. Why a civilized society believes it should have a right to wield weapons is beyond me .. I think you all have been brainwashed by the NRA. As a Canadian, every time I watch an NRA infomercial about how we "canadians are miserable" ever since our right to bear arms was taken away -- I can only think, geez, the Americans actually believe this propoganda. Over here, you need a special permit to wield a handgun, and even politicians have trouble getting one. Compare canadian cities to american ones. Take the majot city in America that has the lowest crime rate (when compared to other American cities) and divide by 10 to get the crime rate of the major city in Canada with the highest crime rate.
..early at 19:15 local time. By now (20:15), the police has allowed access to the buildings again.
A small island would do. Give IQ tests upon arrival. He who has the highest IQ becomes the new leader and sets the rules. Obviously my faith in IQ is a little blind, but the smart have done well in the past and history tends to repeat itself.
The National Weather Service put up this amazing picture. Is this for real?
(The link was spotted on BBSpot.com)
Jooleem. Get Addicted.
Peak user count on #wtc IRCnet: 3194
I've _never_ seen so many ppl on one channel.
Why isn't is president@us ?
and after we know who they are, should we then try to derive their state of mind. maybe these people grew up in a broken home. maybe we should send them to therapy. that will work. not. find them. nuke them. 'nough said.
I see ebay is shutting down that trade center auctions that are starting to pop up. While looking through these, I ran across this:
& item=1004701319
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
which states:
PHOTO TO FOLLOW, AFTERNOON OF Tuesday, SEPT 11.
and also says:
international bidders are most welcome at my auctions.
Kinda' begs the question: Are terrorists using ebay auctions to coordinate attacks?
[disclaimer: I'm Scots, posting from Scotland]
What's scary about this is that the perpetrators did not need access to a 'greater array of weaponry'. While the US President commits huge sums of money, and breaches solemn international treaty obligations, to develop missile defence, the perpetrators were able to use fifty tons of aviation fuel that they didn't even have to pay for. Who needs a suitcase bomb, when you've got domestic aircraft?
This was a superbly well organised and executed operation on the part of the perpetrators, whoever they were, but it was also an incredibly cheap one. I should be surprised if the whole budget for the operation exceeded $100,000.
So what can a government do in response to this? It's easy (and depressing) to predict what Dubya will do - just what so many here are urging him to do. And it's easy to see exactly why it will be counter productive. If the US Government lauches its predictable 'massive strike' against the assumed perpetrators, there will inevitably be enough 'colateral damage' to radicalise a whole new population of people who don't yet hate the US that much. And they'll get together and launch more strikes like todays, because (if you are sufficiently organised, disciplined, ruthless and security conscious) strikes like todays are cheap to mount out of all proportion to the damage they cause.
The US cannot run. It cannot hide. It cannot - ever - protect itself against this sort of thing. It has thousands of miles of coastline, thousands of miles of borders, which it can never effectively monitor. Today shows that wannabe terrorists don't have to smuggle in large quantities of explosives.
For the US as for the rest of the democracies of the world, the only solution to this problem is not to be hated that much. And the only way to not be hated that much is to not act unreasonably. Which means - among other things - that the response to today's event must be strictly limited to individuals who are provably in the direct chain of command to today's event - and not thousands of civilians who just happen to live in the same town.
I'm old enough to remember when discussions on Slashdot were well informed.
First of all WAY TO GO /.
Best source of news for me all day...had to sort the wheat from the chaff, but the comments were moderated even today.
What is going on with the int'l flights still up there...especially the ones that cannot be contacted?
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654
True that some people have said the City of God is Mecca or something and the brothers represented some form of government however if you dice this apart you get:
Two brothers (the World Trade Center towers) torn apart (collapse) by Chaos, while the fortress endures (The White House? Pentagon?)...
I'm not a big believer in this sort of thing, but one of Nostradamus' quatrains seems to be very eerily shadowed in this verse which has yet to married with a historical event, until now.
While this is rather eerie let's keep our heads about us. People tend to treat these in such a way that they become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Much like music lyrics of rock songs. The more obscure the language or symbolism, the more ominous it seems and the more likely some wack-job will use it as his creed. Let's hope old Nostie is wrong this time.
Scary stuff.
liB
Those such as you do not deserve the very air you breath. This is the *worst* disaster i've ever seen, and you go and turn it into your own convoulted view of the world.
I'm from canada, and even here we feel the tragidy of what has happened. Our hearts and prayers go out to the victoms and their families
...for those who may not know. Government agencies housed in the World Trade Center include the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, U.S. Animal Plant Health Inspection, Federal Maritime Commission, U.S. Customs Service, Internal Revenue Service, Customs Service, Treasury Department, Secret Service, and the ATF. Financial exchanges include the Coffee, Sugar and Cocoa Exchange and the New York Cotton Exchange. Businesses include Morgan Stanley, Hyundai Securities, Tokyo Securities, Charles Schwab, Yamaichi International America, Smith Barney Inc., Keefe Bruyette & Woods Inc., Cantor Fitzgerald Inc. and Dean Witter Reynolds Inc.
MS Flight Simulator..
Please - donate blood!!
Now you know...
How the people of Palestine feel when you provide the weapons for Israel's modern-day Holocaust against them
How the people of Tripoli felt when your airforce unleashed a night of bombing because your president thought Libya was a good enough scapegoat for somebody else's crime.
How the people of Cambodia felt when your miltary slaughtered two million of them because Henry Kissinger didn't like the government in the next country.
How the people of Viet Nam felt having you wage total war on them because you didn't like the government they were about to (democratically) elect.
How people suffering life under dictators installed by the US feel.
How the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki felt when the US used atomic bombs on their ready-to-surrender country just to prove that they worked.
How the passengers on that Iranian Airbus felt when your navy decided it hadn't killed enough civilians.
How the innocent civilians of Baghdad feel every night when your heroic USAF drops tonnes of high explosive on them from the safety of a great height.
Maybe the USA will realise that there are actually good reasons why much of the world hates it. Maybe the USA will stop trying to impose its own view on anybody who has the temerity to elect a government that Uncle Sam doesn't approve of.
Maybe, but I'm not holding my breath. Especially with a war-monger like Bush in the White House.
just got this email from a flight instructor buddy up in North Bay ON:
I just got home from the airport. I was taxing out for my first flight
around 1030ish at first it was an IFR ground stop, 2 minutes later I called
for taxi and then it was a national ground stop for all aircraft in Canada
IFR or VFR. Everyone in the air had to get down on the ground wherever they
could ASAP for "Extremely important issues of National Safety" That's what
they have going on the ATIS. We have possibly 25 - 30 commercial jets being
diverted for North Bay from Atlantic flights and Canadian flights. We've had
one in so far. All airborne flights taken off from the USA are not allowed
into Canadian Airspace. The base up here is sealed off and the MPs pretty
much kicked our asses off the Base & Airport.
it's most likely the USA Govt's existing powers being abused that is responsible for this attack.
Lots of people don't like the USA, and they don't like you for a reason.
I bet somebody would be selling a piece of WTC on eBay soon... We'll see.
This is not necessarily a justification or an exoneration of American acts of agression on foreign powers. However, the comparison is not accurate. The US participated in an international action of war against Yugoslavia in response to verified actions of genocide after a long period of explicit, public, official warnings and attempts to negotiate a solution. The Yugoslavian government and people were clearly warned that they would be the target of acts of war. And although one can argue how targetted the bombings were, they were not made in a manner to maximize civilian casualties. Today's terroristic actions were carried out completely without warning with a clear goal to cause catastrophic civilian casualties. So how about you shut the fuck up.
Obfuscation is a rhetorical tactic. Effective rhetoric is often far from elegant.
Look at Reagan! Jeez, talkin' about a hustling bitch. The man didn't --nor does-- know truth from fiction, but he was effective rhetorically.
DubYa is just doing what a good ol' boy oughtta by tearin off a page from the ol' Gipper's play book.
His quote is PLAINLY attributed to Ghandi. The poster was not directly quoting anything biblical. Save your rhetoric bible-boy. I for one ain't giving anyone my other cheek, my coat or another mile.
Mod this mf down. He makes me embarresed to be to be an American. Its a troll of the highest degree, the poster is advocating genocide. It is an insult to humanity. If I ever saw him on the street, blah blah blah blah my foot up his ass.
I hate to be macabre, but it has to be said. This has been a serious object lesson.
That lesson is: a few hijacked aircraft can trump any "Missle Defence Shield". There could have been nuclear or biological weapons on board.
How could the hijackers have got on board the airliners? I hope that it does not turn out that the affected airlines outsourced all their baggage handling, food services, security!
First, I argue that it is fundamentally impossible to stop these sorts of attacks. We simply cannot handle all the highjacking possibilities.
However, that is not to say that we are helpless. I would propose the following policies:
1: Targeting those responsible will be necessary but will not really accomplish much if we are trying to kill people (remember, they are willing to die anyway). It is more impossible to target facilities, economic material, etc.
2: Any counterstrikes must be balanced with attacks that are much more meaningful in a real struggle against terrorism. We must, in addition to attacking terrorist organizations, attack the economic structures that allow them to be successful. This means that we have to sacrifice cheap oil and help OPEC nations economically develop and become more economically independent. We have to target the terrorists in their pocket-book. If this is not done, we are doomed to fighting a reactive war against an opponent which rises organically from the oil-rich areas of the world.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
You're not helping, idiot.
Let your opinion be heard on Zogby's interactive poll. http://www.zogby.com/
You f*cking idiot. Opposing communism was something the rest of the world was just too cowardly and weak to do. France left Vietnam (and Cambodia and Laos) a mess, not the USA. Africa, with the help of Europe, was messed up well before the USA came into existence. If it were not for the USA and countries like us, you would be a f*cking slave without any rights. You deserve it, too.
Perhaps you really think it could help to do this kind of crap but it really wont. How many terrorist groups would know that airports have this? Then they (assuming they arent headless cells) can send in someone that hasnt ever been arrrested, or even just someone that hasnt been in the country before. Or perhaps you want to have the software tell the police that some non white people are around (better go beat them down). You dont even know what group did this, stop thinking that group profiling or anything on the same note would help. This very well could have been an inside job, perhaps the pilots jumped out? Perhaps perhaps perhaps. The only thing that is a fact is that no one in the US government is going to say this was one person acting alone.
"Not my manner of thinking but the manner of thinking of others has been the source of my unhappiness." - M
Epsecially at the places that PAY you for it.
It's used for cosmetic purposes, seriously... Like eye-shadow and shit.
Give whole blood.
'Sup blood?
AlpineR
The only response I can think of is to identify and destroy the organizations responsible and any governments who gave aid and comfort to the terrorists. Fuck the civilians of these countries, they obviously are like the Borg and believe everything that there goverment says because they are lesser lifeforms than us Americans and deserve to Die.
The issue is revenge. Those who initiate force against us must be identified and killed as a warning to the rest of the world not to fuck with America.
We (the US) should not rely on the fiction of "international law" -- we believe that we are the law. This is an act of war and war is the appropriate response, even though we don't know who we are fighting yet - we'll pick a likely target, because as I said, we need to make an example to the rest of the world.
I'm glad you're not a citizen of the US. You clearly don't deserve to be, because your not like me.
* * *
This is the message that your post sends to me. I sure as hell hope that I am wrong.
Has anyone else noticed that today is 911 day? As in 9/11/01?
Just a random thought that popped up through the shock.
"We all do no end of feeling, and we mistake it for thinking." -Mark Twain
Lighten up. It's a joke. And not even a joke directed at the actual tragedy; it's directed at the Canadian's effort to help. Just because something terrible happened doesn't mean you can't laugh.
TROLL of the lowest kind.
No, he was quoting Ghandi, who was responding to 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth', in much the same way that Jesus did.
Amazing how the 'fundamentalist' Christians are those furthest away from the teachings of Christ.
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
Okay... I started to do a nice little logical essay on why this won't work, but let me put it very simply:
If you kill my family and say you'll do it again, I will fucking come down your chimney and tear out your black, twisted heart.
This was an act against my neighbors, my country. Thousands of people were killed... people who could have easily been my mother, father, sister or brother. Or me. And these people *were* mothers, fathers and siblings to people across the country. You wiped out two of our symbols of pride... the tallest buildings in our largest city. I stayed there for a week a few months ago, and I was proud of our human accomplishments - and you, in your narrow little mindset, slaughtered thousands of people - of whom, let's face it, only a few had ever even heard of your group.
Our battle flag has been a venemous rattlesnake with the motto emblazoned: "Don't Tread On Me". Left alone, the US falls into a sort of ambiguious philosophical debate... because we have the freedom to go in a hundred different directions. Polarize us, unite us in anger, attack and *KILL* *OUR* *CHILDREN* *AND* *PARENTS*, and YES... I think we have the right, and *will* eliminate you.
This was a military attack. The Pentagon, the center of our military coordination, was targeted. And that begs a military response.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
http://24.216.235.113/planecrash/
of this problem is the US's continued support for Isreal. We have been supporting the inhumane actions of Isreal both economically and militarily for a very long time. The Palestinians are a repressed people that have been living under the supervision of their enemies for a very long time.
This attack is a desperate cry from a help by a besieged people. The situation in Palestine is unsustainable. People die there nearly every day. They want the American people to understand this.
I AM NOT defending the actions of the individuals involved in these attacks. They are criminals and should be punished as such. I'm just saying that every problem has a ROOT cause. If we want this type of terrorist activity to stop we must identify this cause and eliminate it.
NY Police Radio scanner here:
http://www.globalsoundwave.com:8000/listen.pls
CDN fighter aircraft. This is not a scheduled flight, it is apparently being treated as a possible hijacked aircraft. The airport is evacuated as is everything in it's flight path.
I will post an update when I have more info..
I'm curious. How do we now respond ? Do we
take out someone like Ben Ladin as an example, whether he's guilty or not ?
eye for an eye, 86 some of their planes ?
empty our prisons of our most dangerous criminals, arm them and air-drop them on the guilty ?
nuke someone ?
turn the other cheek ?
And what are the long-term reprecussions of how we resond ?
healyourchurchwebsite.com - WWJB?
... you will see Clinton supporters deny Clinton's blame at all. He bears the blame because 8 years of his strong arm tactics worldwide has soured many people even further against the U.S. But I'm sure that Clinton's foreign policy will somehow be blamed on the conservatives in Congress during that time, the same way so-called "liberals" blame the conservatives in Congress as the reason the then democrat command in chief got us involved in Vietnam. This is one of many reasons why democrats are a sad joke. They crap their pants and blame others for the mess.
It's a shame democrats can't seem to figure out exactly what a president is and is not responsible for. Although an even greater shame is that they believe that democrats are somehow better than republicans, even though they both seem to pull the same crap. The only thing that changes are the names, the industries that own them, and the people who suffer for it all.
It's time to show the world who really has the balls. You're not serious.. right?.. The one with the balls will be the side which scores more bodycounts? This is insane! As for the non-US thing.. listen up carefully. The rest of the world fears a US impulsive attack. Such a thing will bring the whole earth down to its knees. All those countries that have absolutely nothing to do with this us and whoever it is dispute will suffer consequences that are not targeted towards them. Take heed and think a moment.. the bombing in Serbia caused more damage than what the average mind might percept. Even now and for many years to come, depleted uranium is spreading across the balkans and the mediterannean sea. Does this sound like a fair result to you? Especially if you consider that the bombing in Serbia was not even counterstrike.
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."
-JFK
Ok, allow me to stamp this out before it goes much furter. This quote is from this page: http://www.ed.brocku.ca/~nmarshal/nostradamus.htm
As I posted in a similar thread on the earlier story, this is not from Nostradamus, but rather an attempt by the author of the site (who does NOT claim to be psychic) to show how, given a vague "prediction", that something in the future will fit it. Seems to have backfired, tho.
But, I suppose that some people would rather believe it is from Nostadamus, and feel 'eerie' about it, rather than facing the truth, and seeing that it is just a coincidence.
+-- (Score:-1, Moderator on Power Trip)
Yeah, right!
Never mind how many innocent civilians get killed. After all, they won't be American civilians, so they don't matter, do they?
And the USA wonders why people hate it with jerks like you around.
I doubt any pilot would have crashed to WTC even if threatened (knowing that he would die *anyway*). The pilot would probably have tried to crash to a more safe place. The terrorists must have known how to fly a plane.
The attacks required suicides by terrorists - a group of terrorists in every plane. They did not land to an airport to hold hostages for a few days. They didn't just leave a bomb to an unmanned car. They didn't warn, they didn't ask anything, they didn't threaten. They just took it to the end personally. They just flew a plane filled with people directly to a crowded scyscraper. Just like that, just direct mean action. Some people must hate USA very much.
This is one step to wrong direction. And the next step...nonconventional weapons? Maybe. Today's attack clearly shows that there is no limit to terrorists' imagination.
Unless I heard incorrectly, the number to call (Red Cross) to find out where you can give blood is 1-800-GIVE-LIFE
this whole thing is not good..
Mark
"The Biggest Mass Murder in History"...
except for the Japanese civilians targeted by American nukes.
I've heard on NPR that all flights and planes are now accounted before - but that a fifth crash has ocurred in an undisclosed location. As well, a car bomb *did* go off in front of the State Department, and there was a crash at Camp David.
You guys aren't even close to reporters, and you have no resources for verification, but you still have some editorial responsibility, please don't pass bullshit off as facts (at least without saying "unconfirmed").
AC's cheerfully ignored
I just wanted tos ay that I was at the Pentagon this morning, and that everything there seems to be like it's very well under control. There were a bunch of different people there watching the flames be put out - TV stations and such, as well as tourists and residents who, like me, wanted to see what the hell was going on.
:)
Probably the most interesting thing that happened was talking to one of the officers who works at the Pentagon. She told me not to get any nearer (which I declined to listen to) and then said, I don't know if this was a joke or not, that I should try to stay alive so I could serve the country. God save us if we have to go to war!
DC is currently in a state of emergency, and almost all the streets are closed - it's pretty eerie. I walked by the state department, and the whole thing is shut down. There are cops and agents from every sort of government department everywhere - you literally can't go a block without seeing a handful sitting around or directing traffic or doing whatever they do. Washingtonians are being pretty calm, though, so there aren't any riots or looting or anything like that.
Just to give another view on the situation here in DC
-- K
two in nyc, one at the pentagon (none of our people were there), and in pennsylvannia...
there have been no bombing and no other crashes at this time... camp david was not hit and neither was the state department..
most of the internet "news sources" have been useless today because of being overwhelmed or complete and total lies abounding...
if this does turn out to be a terrorist act, and it most likely is, they will proudly take responsibility. Otherwise their work was in vain. The happenings today are obviously a very well planned attack, and done for a reason. If they don't take reponsibility, their cause isn't helped at all.
I'm not saying that it's not a possibility that nobody will assume responsibility, it would be suicide. But they already sent quite a few of their people on suicide missions as well.
http://www.live365.com/stations/206780
--- sig moved for great justice.
There is another Nostradamus prophecy that points to a great fire making buildings collapse in the new city at 45 degrees. Century I - Quatrain 83 I believe it is. I remember years ago hearing that this was a reference to New York City (something about NYC is on 45 degrees lattitude or longitude).
There was also a television program I saw on Nostradamus that said something about WWIII would be started first by an attack on NYC, followed by an attack on Paris, followed by an attack on DC.
Anything going down in Paris?
The correct response is against ALL terrorist organizations not just ONE. A big time response against an organization we can finger is required.
But all terrorists should now be targeted by all governments: Basque, IRA, you name it: if they can be identified they should be hit VERY VERY soon.
"How the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki felt when the US used atomic bombs on their ready-to-surrender country just to prove that they worked."
Japan was not ready to surrender, they were willing to fight until they completely used up all their resources. Millions more people would likely have been killed in battle had we not dropped those bombs, Japanese and American. Don't forget who started that war either. Not only that, the day before we dropped the bombs, we alerted their civilian populations that they should evacuate those cities.
Yes, America is guilty of plenty of wrongdoings, but your type of anti-American bullshit rhetoric helps nothing.
And of all times to spout your bullshit, you do it after thousands of innocent people are killed by acts of terrorism.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Good joke. Actually Canada has a fairly modern military. They just haven't really used them since WWII.
I just got a text message from my girlfriend in Brooklyn. She's okay *whew* :)
-Wade
The United States will find out who did it. This is the sort of secret which can not be kept.
I do not know if you are an American or not but there are people on this planet who would like to kill you just for being one. You do not reason with them. You do not chant songs of peace. You do not appeace them. You either isolate them so they can do no harm or kill them in defense of your own life and country.
I tried to give blood at 2500 Marcus (very near Long Island Jewish hospital) and I couldn't even get in the parking lot. I'll try again later or tomorrow. Please, if you are in the area, help out...
I feel so useless... giving blood is all I can do to help.
Here's the text of that URL in case it's down for whatever reason:
rooooar
September 11 = 9-11
I'm not sure why this has been overlooked in the media, but the combined occupancy of both towers is 1/2 million. This is according to the architect of the buildings in a Jerusalem Post interview . I hope the estimates of 50,000 casualties hold up.
The most probable way is war. war against the group who did this. I'm talking about WW3...
This sig is intentionally left blank
Here is the emergency number to obtain information about employees of the Morgan Stanley Corporation.
888-883-4391
PLEASE Only to verify employee status for family members.
I am me...I think
The Red Cross is overwhelmed by donors right now (at least here in DC). Wait until tomorrow or the next day.
I'm not eligible, due to having lived in the UK & fears of mad cow, even though I'm a vegetarian...
Don't know if there's a common link, but isn't this the day everything went to &#*() on the stock market?
Pretty ironic, given that I used to feel sympathy for the Palestinians and hoped a peaceful agreement could be reached.
Fuck that.
I agree with the previous poster. We don't have the balls to act ourselves, but I hope Israel wipes them out entirely.
Maybe other shitheads will think twice about trying something like this in the future.
These terrorists must cease to exist. I had friends working in the World Trade Center. Damn all apologists. Damn all molly-coddled jackasses who excuse terrorism. These people must die, period.
I was in D.C. centre round about the time the plane hit the Pentagon. I'm a Brit, and flew out for two weeks holiday here to visit some friends yesterday. Getting out of D.C. was not easy - various subway stations were closed. For those of you who don't know D.C., the Mall area (where the Pentagon and Capitol are) is surrounded by government buildings. The streets were full of scared people, trying to play the odds on a macabre game of chance as they decided which buildings would be least likely to be hit. It was terrifying - everybody was certain another strike was coming. There were rumours flying around - a car bomb had hit the Capitol, another plane was incoming, all sorts. The roads became gridlocked very quickly. I got talking to a lady who was just standing around outside the agriculture department. Turns out her husband was in the Pentagon. We hitched a lift down to Crystal City - I owe the driver of that black van a beer. From there we picked up a couple of other ladies and got a meal in McDonalds. We went our separate ways, since some guy said he could get me to Tyson's Corner - which was near where I wanted to go. After half-an-hour stuck in traffic, not moving, I heard that some subway stations were open, and took my chances. I got lucky, and got home.
Many didn't.
I have never been so scared.
i don't do sigs. oops.
Does the date and approximate time bother anyone?
I'll be very upset if it was known by various intelligence gathering agencies that something was going to take place today and we did nothing about it.
Just like Pearl Harbor.
Releasing the prisoners was a culmination of a process going back many many years (involving, among other things, Ireland re-writing its constitution to remove the claim on Northern Ireland).
Israel and Palestine have had 50 years to hate each other -- the Protestants and Catholics in Ireland have had about 300. You don't defuse a situation like that by bombing the hell out of one side (we know, Thatcher did her best).
Peace and reconciliation is, in the long run, the only way forward.
The biggest thing the American government can do now is say 'What have we done to these people? How have the affected their lives so badly that they will kill themselves just to hurt our civilians? How can *we* change *our* behaviour so that something like this never happens again.'
But they won't. They'll pick some small, badly defended country, and have a one-sided TV war so all the folks back home can sit back and see that Uncle Sam is *sorting them bastards out*. And the whole thing will start all over again.
Don't make the US into Zimbabwe. Make it into South Africa.
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
to the families and the loved ones who were unfortunatley cought in this atrocious cross fire. The loss of life in this scale is at VERY LEAST saddening and dis-heartening and I wish them the best because they are TRUELY going to need it.
However as I was talking with a collegue of mine over lunch today we were amazed that something like this hadn't happened earlier, and shocked that the papers (At least around here) were claiming that this took some genious tactician to pull off, when in reality this was a brute force effort but a small group of people and it just happened to work out for them for the most part. I mean this was in one of Tom Clancy's books (can't remember exactly which one) quite a while ago and I'm surprised no one has tried to re-create this particular event, although now I guess it has happened.
And I realize my next comment is going to be rather hurtfull but again my collegue and I were discussing just how cool a movie (mpeg clip or what not) of watching the planes collide, or parts of the towers falling would be, and I'm sure I will be bombarded by those tonight.... although the loss of life that was neccisary to create those clips was by far unnecisary and I am sadend by this most tragic event.
As a big multi-armed god fan, I would like to elaborate on this comment a bit.
While there may be many armed gods in Hindu beliefs, Buddhist tradition in many countries, particularly in eastern China/western MidEast also feature statues of multi-armed gods and goddesses dating back many centuries.
These ancient dieties are also found in Far Eastern and even Pacific Islander temples. Furthermore, to get back to the idiotic parent post, these gods are very real as long as someone continues to have faith in them such as myself.
In fact, there is nowhere in the Koran or either the new or old testaments of the the Bible or the book of Mormon that indicates that the Judeo Christian/Muslim monotheistic deity does not, in fact have multiple arms, faces or perahps even a vagina or two, bulbous breasts and groovy hips.
He may have screwed up the Mecca thing but there is some truth to his words. The BBC recently ran a spot on the international news show about a school that trained Arab kids to be suicide bombers. They showed 12 year old kids drawing pictures of themselves with bombs strapped to them... the poor kids were being brainwashed into blowing themselves up. The school has since been shut down under international pressure, but it has probably just gone underground.
I realize that this is not typical of all Muslims, of course. Chilling nonetheless.
There are no civilians in Palestine. Every 10 year old who picks up a rock or done a recon mission for his local PLO officer has made the transition from Civilian to Soldier.
It begins here. Right now. With us. Both you and I. This is a time of sadness, of tragedy. Mark it not as an end to things, but as a beginning. Arise! Cast aside your prejudice; cast aside what keeps you from loving your fellow man. To not feel helpless. That is what must be done. We must come together. Now. What you believe in, if it keeps you from understanding and loving your fellow man, must be discarded. The black man and the white man, your differences are small now. Unimportant. They must be let go. To galvanize our better nature, to stand side by side, that is what must be done. Tell your brother, your sister, of your love for them. We are one now. It can be no other way. To think that your time, your moment on this earth, is not important, is no longer true. This is the time we were born for, to come together, to close the divisions between us. We must be strong, and always reasoning, in the months to come. This was meant to divide us, to shake our faith within ourselves. Make this a beginning. Make this the moment where we strive for the world of which we all dream. Each of us, can have no more than the last of us. Never think that you were not born into a great moment. We, together, never divided. The time is now. Peace to all my brothers and sisters, to all of you.
Years later, a doctor will tell me that I have an I.Q. of 48, and am what some people call "mentally retarded".
on the future of these terrorists... "They shall all die in lakes of blood."
"A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself."
it is the only reasonable response to the original post.
Worse than this.
If you want to read what I'm writing in my encrypted emails, go tell a judge and get a warrant. Easy enough. After all, I'm a foreign national known to have subversive opinions. Install a keyboard logger to uncover my thought crimes. For that's what conspiracies are. Up until the hijackers walked into the airport with their weapons, no real crime had been committed.
God forbid that we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion (Jefferson).
Yes, the nick is flamebait
the destruction of the buildings in fight club were done without the loss of human life. this was made clear in the film. the attacks today are tragedies of human loss. fuck the buildings.
The calls of horror were there from those who felt them. The people authorised their government quite overtly for those strikes.
Every airport, government office and school closed, stock market shut down (and rumors of it crashing), military patrolling the capital, office buildings evacuated, Bush and company all in hiding. They blow up three buildings and a few jets and we shut down the whole country.
If whoever did this wants to disrupt the nations infrastructure, I believe were already doing a good job of it for them.
Liberty in your lifetime
We were not terrorists in the American Revolutionary War. We were guerillas.
Guerillas fight by performing sneak attacks on opposing military forces, by sniping and similar means. Guerillas are usually quite interested in saving their own hides, and avoid suicide attacks. By avoiding the standard massed musket tactics of the day and learning hide-and-shoot from the natives, we were able to inflict massive casualties on British military targets. The aim of guerilla warfare is the same as that of conventional warfare: to destroy your opponent's military assets until they are no longer able to make war with you, and must sue for peace.
Terrorists "fight" by performing secret operations to cause massive damage to civilian (and sometimes military) centers. The aim is not to damage military assets, but to produce political pressure by panicking the civilian base. Our representative government makes us a prime target for terrorism, since what affects the civilians affects our leadership. States where the government "hates" its own people (such as Iraq) are basically immune to terrorism; if you blow up a bunch of Iraqis, Hussein will just laugh. Passenger aircraft, shopping malls, sporting events, and large buildings are usual targets for terrorism.
The US has arguably engaged in terrorism. Our atomic attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were terrorist in nature, but military rather than sneaky. IMHO, US economic sanctions are a "less violent" relative to a terrorist attack; see above for why we haven't overthrown Hussein by sanctioning Iraq, nor Castro by sanctioning Cuba.
--The basis of all love is respect
This was not your "normal" terrorist attack. There were no demands, it was planned before the Israel elections, and it was coordinated. This was a terrorist attack on the U.S. and Western economy.
It was timed for the opening of the stock markets, while the markets in London were still open. It was timed for the LA commute. It was timed for when most people would be in the office, in the morning.
The use of planes insured that all planes would be grounded. No planes in the sky means business people do not travel, packages are not delivered, even the U.S. Mail is not delivered. It looks like other transportation services, such as Greyhound, are also shutting down.
The president wasn't really targeted, and government offices weren't targetted. The Pentagon was targeted. Was this to ensure a crisis way of thinking from the military folks? Already people are lining up for the gas pumps in my home town. If we make some sort of surgical strike against an Arab nation, then will the Arab states retaliate with an oil embargo?
This is hitting us where it hurts - in our struggling economy. Don't be fooled - the fact that Washington and New York are shut down fills the terrorists with as much joy as the fact that Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Dallas are all in a panic, vacating all the state offices and high office buildings. They are thrilled that every American is taking a day off work, and wondering what is happening to their 401K.
Don't let this terrorism hurt the economy. Keep your money where it is - you'll buy cheap stocks that will only go up in value. bin Laudin probably has his money in gold, which will go up in value and fund the next adventure. Try to lessen his speculative portfolio a bit.
Above all, keep doing your jobs, think about the freedoms you do have as an American, and, if you are in a position to help, do so.
Oi... so what are you saying? Let's just spray them all and hope we get the ones responsible?! What bothers me about this whole thing is the veiled hysteria being shown by people--both in the media and the population-at-large. At this point, I think the preventative measures have already been taken--the air force has been deployed and the monitoring air space. Planes already in mid-flight have been diverted to airports outside the US... AND Dick Cheney is now at the helm while Bush is off somewhere under protection. This is actually the one of the most lingering power of terrorism, isn't it?! The power to induce fear and see the "unseen" enemy everywhere. Don't play into it!
So you are probably right, fuel might rise. Do not forget that every time middle east become more hot directly or indirectly , crude rise in price due to fear of investor/refinery shortage.
My thoughts go out to all who suffer, and to the families who lost their loved ones.
I hope that the GWB administration will punish those who are responsible.
Don't mistake Islam for terrorism.
Madmen will always be. We can only try to stop them. Which obviously isn't always possible.
Real funny. Thousands of people just died, some of which were probably your fellow Slashdotters. You couldn't have chosen a worse situation to mold into the image of "All your base." You sir, are a terrible excuse for a human.
-- I'll cut you up so bad, you'll wish I'd never cut you up so bad!
Of either wtc_divx.avi or wtc.mpg
--
NEW YORK (CNN) -- Terrorists struck the United States Tuesday morning in harrowing, widespread attacks that included at least three commercial jet crashes into significant buildings.
... American Flight 77, a Boeing 757 from Washington Dulles airport to Los Angeles with 58 passengers and six crew is unaccounted for. Witness says plane that hit Pentagon was an American Airlines Boeing 757.
... United confirms the crash of Flight 175 from Boston to Los Angeles with 56 passengers and seven crew aboard. It's possible, but not confirmed, that this is the second plane that hit the World Trade Center.
In the first attack, a plane hits the north tower of the World Trade Center in Manhattan shortly before 9 a.m., followed by another plane into the second tower about 20 minutes later. Both towers later collapse.
About an hour later, a plane crashes into the Pentagon, part of which later collapses.
American Airlines tells CNN that it lost two planes, both en route to Los Angeles: American Flight 11 from Boston with 81 passengers and 11 crew aboard is lost. This is believed, but not confirmed, to have been one of the planes that crashed into the trade center.
United Airlines loses two planes: United Airlines Flight 93 airliner headed from Newark, New Jersey, to San Francisco, crashes near Somerset, Pennsylvania -- police say initial reports indicate no survivors.
FBI sources said all four planes that crashed had been hijacked.
The Pentagon, the White House, the State Department, the Justice Department, the Capitol, the CIA and all other government buildings in Washington are evacuated.
President Bush calls the crashes "a national tragedy." Later in the day, Bush issues a statement from Barksdale AFB near Shreveport, Louisiana. "Make no mistake: The United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts."
In the first-ever national ground stop of aircraft, all flights nationwide are stopped at their departure airports.
International flights are initially diverted to Canada; FAA says later, however, that 22 U.S.-bound international flights will be allowed to land.
Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, says in reaction to the terror attacks that "we want to tell the American children that Afghanistan feels your pain and we hope that the courts find justice."
In New York, more than 10,000 rescue personnel rush to the scene. Evacuation of lower Manhattan begins.
Israel evacuates all of its missions around the world.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta is evacuated. CDC prepares bioterrorism teams in case they become necessary.
Philadelphia landmarks are evacuated.
In Chicago, the Sears Tower is evacuated; United Nations in New York is evacuated.
Five battleships and two aircraft are deployed along the East Coast of the United States, and two aircraft carriers go to New York area, all from Norfolk, Virginia.
The New York Port Authority closes all bridges and tunnels into the city.
U.S. stock markets close after the New York attacks.
NATO sends home all non-essential personnel from its Brussels, Belgium, headquarters.
The Immigration and Naturalization Service puts the U.S. borders with Mexico and Canada on highest state of alert.
Los Angeles International Airport is evacuated.
Disney closes its parks in Orlando, Florida, and Disneyland in Anaheim, California.
FEMA implements plan established for such events: FBI leads investigation, and Justice Deptartment heads crisis management.
Three Palestinian groups -- Hamas, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine and Islamic Jihad -- deny responsibility for the attacks, but blame U.S. policies in the Mideast.
Mayor Anthony Williams of Washington, D.C., declares a state of emergency.
A Delta flight makes emergency landing in Cleveland and all passengers are safely evacuated. Federal officials search the plane for a possible bomb.
Shop smart, Shop S-Mart.
State Department Is Evacuated
WASHINGTON
The State Department was evacuated Tuesday due to a possible explosion or fire amid a rash of explosions in New York and Washington.
A senior government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the incident appeared connected with two plane crashes at the World Trade Center, an explosion at the Pentagon and the evacuation of the White House.
"Something has happened at the State Department," the source said. "We don't know what yet. We hear it might have been a plane."
source : http://www.wtop.com/
earlier they reported on the explosion, claiming it was a car bomb, but later rescinded that. other news sources continue to insist the state department was not touched (that the building is intact, regardless of any incident) including eyewitness accounts.
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
A kneejerk lockdown reaction which takes away freedoms from the citizens of the U.S. is the most direct way to serve the ends of the terrorists. The U.S. is one of the world's superpowers in large measure because it does not oppress its own citizens in the overt way that other nations have done (and in some cases, are still doing). That freedom is essential if the U.S. is to continue to thrive - in fact, it is the main thing that should be protected.
And someone please mirror this site!
When we determine exactly who is responsible for these attacks, instead of mobilizing our armed forces I suggest the following: A one hundred million dollar bounty on the head of the leader of the organization, and half a million for any verified members of the group. This would still be way cheaper than sending in the military, and wouldn't mean the loss of any more American lives.
-- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
and I think for the exact same reason that today seems so horrible... the movie gives the idea that we should just toss it all and start from scratch - the book I think acknowledges that our culture has some value, and even the extraneous crap (like IKEA) exists because we have achieved something worthwhile. or something like that...
is to rebuild the world trade center and make it taller than before!
a symbol that we who are free will continue ot be
no matter what mosq
"At forty-five degrees, the sky will burn, Fire approaches the great new city, Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up When they want to have verification from the Normans"
NYC is at 45 Degree north latitude
looked up verification in the thesaurus... Demonstration comes up
The original
Yesterday, Dec. 7, 1941 - a date which will live in infamy - the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.
The modified
"Today, Sept. 11, 2001 - a date which will live in infamy, again - the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by cowardly Islamic terriorist forces of the Milertistic group lead by Osama bin Laden."
Make no mistake. We are at war.
grep >= ! == $your
The Slashdot articles regarding the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon are literally filled with misinformation that is represented as fact. I can't help but wonder how many people are reading Slashdot and not bothering to verify the information.
Please, let's leave the high-risk reporting to those qualified to do it. You're doing more harm than good.
they're at least 5 members smaller now..
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
Good use for spam. The The goernment could "spam" everyone , kind of like an emergency braod cast system. Actually, just tell the major ISP's whats up and ask them to forward the news to there customers. Word of mouth would get the info out to everyone else.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
My Nostradamus is very rusty from my freshmen theology classes 10 years ago but ...
Wasnt there some prediction about a great conflict involving world powers would be started by a man in a blue turban, who killed with fire in the sky ?
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
Here's a link to the NOAA website showing the radar image of the northeast US, showing the extent of the dust cloud.
From Boston.com
Akamai Technologies of Cambridge announced that Daniel C. Lewin, co-founder, chief technology officer, and board member of the company, died in the American Airlines Flight 11 crash in NYC today. Lewin, 31, is survived by his wife and two sons.
Boeing 757-200
Boeing 767-200
Lots of stock pictures of the planes and details about the types of planes...
If those responsible for this terrorist attack get away with it, then we are only destined for more attacks. Find the terrorists who did this and destroy them utterly. That's the only message the others will understand.
> This is an act of war against the United States.
No, it's not. It's an act of terrorism. There's an enormous difference, a lesson that Vietnam taught us, and that you've apparently forgotten.
> Peace did not stop Hitler; peace did not stop the Axis Powers.
This would be a great analogy if it was accurate, but it isn't. Nations cannot operate without infrastructure, but most terrorist organizations can. You're fighting a different animal, and the weapon that's most effective against one can be entirely ineffective against the other. Think of trying to use an elephant gun (good against elephants, naturally) to kill a swarm of bees, and you'll get the idea.
> If viable proof of guilt of Osama bin Laden is brought forth,
> and the Taliban refuses to turn him over to the United States, then
> they are an accomplice to an act of war and should be dealt with
> appropriately.
What if they aren't really harboring him? Or what if they are? What would be an appropriate response to that? Invasion? Do you really think that the rest of the world will stand idly by and watch us annex Afghanistan? Do you really think that this incident warrants a war against Iran and Iraq? How about Russia? How about China? Both world wars started over annexations of territory, and in both wars nations with no initial stake were eventually pulled in (like the U.S. in WWI, which we entered because of our alliance with Britain and France). The number of Americans that would die in World War III would eclipse the deaths today within weeks.
> There must be a message sent to the world that terrorist actions
> against the United States will be met with such an incredible and
> unimaginably horrific response, than no one sane, fanatical, insane,
> or otherwise would even conceive of the idea.
Get your temper back in check and read that again. Sane people don't use terrorism, and fanaticals and the insane don't care about consequences. So, our "horrific response" will only serve to turn the collateral damage victims into more enemies.
> It is time to obliterate those who would cause this to happen
> using every means at our disposal, including the most destructive
> and horrific weapons ever developed by man. If some civilians die
> along the way, they are unfortunate casualties of war.
It is almost astonishing that your comment reflects very closely the words used by Timothy McVeigh in describing his destruction of the Murrah building. But then, it's not that astonishing after all, in that you're advocating the same sort of terrorism as he was ("if the (fill-in-the-blank) government is going to protect people who commit crimes against the (fill-in-the-blank) people, then I'm justified in killing them and anyone else who happens to get in the way, and I'll call them "unfortunate casualties of war" because it soothes my sense of justice and makes my position less abhorrent").
Until you (and many more like you) realize that fighting terrorism isn't just about brute force, we as a nation are destined to suffer from more of these attacks. Fighting terrorism is a high art form, and it can be done with a high degree of success, but it's never perfect, and it's never about simple military might. Read more about counter-terrorism, and you'll be surprised (and educated) by what you find.
Virg
You're dealing, most likely, with Arab terrorists.
Damn right - just like Oklahoma, yes?
I'm more sorry than I can express about the loss of life in your country. I wish there were some way I could help the families and friends of the people who died.
I know what *won't* help: a war.
It must be terribly hard for you to realise, given that you've probably never been out your country, but Syrians and Afghani are *just as human as you*. One American isn't worth *more* in some sense than a non-American, despite what you might think.
You know how to stop hatred? Build prosperity. Pick the countries that you think may have caused this, and make them happy, so they never need to resort to something like this again. Suicide missions aren't something that you do lightly -- there is years of hatred and tension that America needs to *defuse*.
And yes, I said the same about Britain when the IRA were killing people in my country.
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
The World Trade Center had inadequate protection systems in the 1993 bombing; the truck bomb in the parking garage knocked out emergency power and the fire pumps. Last time, they didn't even have battery backup on the emergency lighting. The FEMA study of the bombing and fire indicates only minor upgrades were made to fire protection systems; better emergency lighting and such. No improvements to sprinklers or new fire barriers were made, other than improving backup power to the fire pumps. Most of the improvements were to communications and control.
This was much worse than it should have been.
The local paper has some links in their copy of an AP story on this incident. HTH, and whoever's responsible ought to consider that his days are numbered.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
My position
I will write this in first person, as the thoughts and opinions here are expressed as mine only. When I say "you", I mean you personally, when I say USA, I mean the country as it exists in legal term. I strongly differentiate between the country that you live in and you personaly.
What do I see
I don't know who commited this crime, but I don't see them completely unprovoked. The choice of the day itself (international peace day) hints, that it might not be immediately connected to recent events on UN racism conference, but rather something that can be shown as direct result of USA policy of involving in every regional conflict in last decade. Playing the role of world police and trying to establish new world order isn't something that will go down lightly with vast majority of world population. Even if this resolves to be act of internal terrorism (like OC bombing was) it means that USA is growing more and more extremist by the day. Could you imagine something like this happening in the land of truly free?
What I think about it
For the most of the world I would say that it has it's feelings mixed. I, for one, am fed over my head with all of your freedom exports as of lately and think this might be clear signal that USA is trying to do what no country is (or ever should) be allowed to do. On the other hand I do not condone this way of acting in any way justifiable. World policing is something that UN was designed to do and internal freedoms and rights are something that USA seems to be failing in, but this kind of response is never justified.
What do I mean with mixed feelings
For one, I cheer, that civilians in USA are meeting the horror and uncertainty of war. UN general secretary Gali once said for Sarajevo, there's 13 places in the world were the have it worse. This time the civilians in USA for the first time in their history get the chance to experience the fact that there is no other place on Earth where it's worse. They are targeted to change the politics of their country. They are simply used as tools to achieve the goal. And at the end of the day, they are the only ones that could change the policy of the country as a whole. But before you cry that this is wrong and this will only achieve opposite effects, let me assure you, that you are right. This way of acting will never achieve the desired result unless the enemy is overhelmingly stronger. This time the enemy has showed it has weapon of FUD readily available and is capable of using it. Do you really think that you country (assuming your from the USA) really did something else when decided to bomb Yugoslavia? Can you honestly say you didn't target your war aginst civil population in order to destabilize the government? Can you really claim that power plants, car production lines, television station offices, bridges, and other things you managed to destroy or disable aren't civilian targets? In what way does USA justification of the way that it handled that war differ from justification that someone (be it international or internal) will use in its defence?
Since I'm so smart, what do you want us to do?
Can you honestly expect that harsh retaliation (while the bodies are still warm) will solve anything expect serve to prolong the conflict? If that someone will be taken to court, then things will have to be proven; exhibits A and B will be presented; judgement will be passed and sentence will be executed. This is the way things are done. This is the way that equality works. When taken to international stage, USA will probably act as sole judge, jury and executioner. What makes you think, that it morally can. If some country just did this and you're saying it's wrong, what makes you right? Rule of the mob?
And what would I do?
If I would be you (but I'm obviously not), I wouldn't be thinking about revenge (revenge for what exactly?), but I would rather be thinking abut helping those in need. I would be thinking about saying a pray for those dead. I would be thinking about correct course of action after taking care of this. If I would be president of USA, I wouldn't be talking about hunting down the enemy, I would be talking about helping those in need, I would be talking about rebuilding and healing. If I would have the power he has, I wouldn't want to help the thirst for blood, I would want to bring out the good in all the people. Only after that I would be looking to bring justice to whoever did this. Bring justice, not hunt down mind you. Headhunts and public lynch never helped anyone, but correctly executing the justice deterred other from getting help in commiting crimes.
And your point is?
Don't walk around, saying how good/bad this thing is, but the next time elections are around go to the voting booth and tell the country how do you want it to run the business. This will actualy mean that you will alter your behaviour based on some terrorist action, but think about the alternatives. Do you want to live in real FUD state (as in state of mind) or do you want to influence the politics to minimize the chances of this occuring again. The answer is yours. But bottom line is whether you would rather use this as an excuse to do something abou your whole society, or use this as the point of justifying more violence.
Don't go down the spiral of violence. Don't retaliate. Don't assume.
Act with thought. Seek international involvement. Check and present all the facts. Take the road of justice.
If you want to know why I put this in bold, it simply because USA haven't shown much it lately. Sometimes the biggest bully on the block just needs to take the cold shower and admit that fists don't solve everything.
To boldly invent more hot water.
fucking idiot
Most likely caused by structural damage due to impact and heat weakening of the structural steel.
You can see the plastic deformation of the building frame prior to collapse.
The planes should have had a full load of fuel on board.
SHIT!!! i just thought of this but its probably too late by now: imagine all the domains you could buy on thi, and sell to the highest bidder.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Sadly, your wishes are sadly naive, based off of flawed thinking.
"Israel and Palestine have had 50 years to hate each other -- the Protestants and Catholics in Ireland have had about 300. You don't defuse a situation like that by bombing the hell out of one side (we know, Thatcher did her best)."
The peoples of Israel and Palestine have had centuries of time to hate each other. This is a conflict that has been well over 2000 years in progress. Because we support Israel, many over there transfer the same conflict to us. Perhaps you might read the Holy Bible sometime- it documents the source of the conflict in detail and shows why it's not likely to ever go away as long as we're on this Earth.
"Peace and reconciliation is, in the long run, the only way forward."
Nice sentiment. Unfortunately, they don't believe that peace will win them anything- in fact, many believe that dying while killing infidels will buy their way into Heaven. You can't have peace with these people. You can't have reconcilliation with them. They don't reason. They don't ask for any quarter. The crash, a suicide attack on the WTC and Pentagon, should tell you just how wrong you are in this regard.
"The biggest thing the American government can do now is say 'What have we done to these people? How have the affected their lives so badly that they will kill themselves just to hurt our civilians? How can *we* change *our* behaviour so that something like this never happens again.' "
Funny thing is, we've really done nothing to them other than befriend Israel. Having done so, we've involved ourselves with a blood feud that is centuries old. Once you realize that there's nothing we can do except utterly condemn Israel and help bomb the Israelites into oblivion that would appease them, then you come to the conclusion there's no middle ground for us to have to come to a peaceful resolve of this.
Biggest thing we can do is to ensure that they don't repeat this incident- ever. If that means bombing some "poorly defended" country that is financing/training them- so be it.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
if there's a mosque in your area, today might be a day to visit it. like non-muslims, i'm sure most muslims in amaerica are horrified and shocked by what's happened. they too might have friends and relatives who have died, and worse still there segments of the media inciting hatred of them. i know very little about islam, but i'm sure there are people who horribly misinterpret islam just like they misinterpret christianity or judiaism.
terrorism is about spreading terror, fear and divisions between people. fight back. broaden your world, reduce fear and help add to the voices of condemnation.
US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
Terrorism, term usually applied to organized acts or threats of violence designed to intimidate opponents or to publicize grievances. The term dates from the Reign of Terror (1793-94) in the French Revolution but has taken on additional meaning in the 20th cent. Political terrorism may be part of a government campaign to eliminate the opposition, as under Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and others, or it may be part of a revolutionary effort to overthrow a regime, a common tactic in guerrilla warfare. Terrorism by radicals (of both the left and right) and by nationalists became widespread after World War II. Contemporary revolutionary groups that engage in terrorist activity include the "provisional" wing of the Irish Republican Army; the Palestine Liberation Organization; and the Shining Path, in Peru.
grep >= ! == $your
the rumour is that the pilot of United Flight 193 flew it in into the ground, outside Pittsburgh, rather then fly into the USX building,
So they guy flew the plane into the building after he flew it into the ground outside the city?!?!!
How the hell did he do that? I'd think that once he flew the plane into the ground, it would take a miracle to get the thing to take off to be able to fly it into a building.
Just to add to your observations. I live here in a nearby burb, inbetween all three major DC aiports and in direct flight line to Camp David.
Which may explain the occasional jet fighter and helicopter that buzzes overhead.
healyourchurchwebsite.com - WWJB?
This has very few comparisons to Perl Harbor. There is not another "World War" going on, although there are some serious disputes.
The World Trade Center is not a military base, civilians were attacked. The pentagon is military, but should have been a lot more protected then Perl Harbor.
Supposedly, the NSA new about the attack at Perl Harbor, but the military didn't respond properly. In this case......As far as I know, we didn't have any warning. I saw no reports about a plane hijacking before the attack. Normally, we here about a hijack right after it happens, but not this time.
http://www.taleban.com/
Let the info-war begin!
Yep, and the third great war would errupt on a late summer day in the first year of the millenium. War for 30+ years, world economy crash, hunderds of thousands dead, bla bla bla...
i really hope he is wrong...
This sig is intentionally left blank
Now witness the firepower of this fully-armed and operational Death Star!
~~~~~~
Terrorist assmasters beware...
Don't believe anything I say. I crash test crack pipes for a living.
Trolls, trolls, please, gentlemen (heh), hatred's what caused this disater.
Plus, everyone knows CM claims to be a 12 year old Pakistani girl.
I would not expect all Palastinian's to react with sadness at this event. The USA supports their oppressors, while making lip service to peace.
Lets hope so. According to lenta.ru (in Russian, sorry) 11 airplanes were hijacked in all and 8 of them came down. Here is this Russian news source's breakdown:
The first two hit the WTC towers.
The third got the west wing of the Pentagon
The fourth in Pennsylvania.
The fifth in Pittsburgh.
The sixth was simply shot down by our US Air Defenses.
The seventh crashed in to Washington's Dulles Airport.
The eighth plane was forced down in the area of Camp David.
Yikes, sounds like they got their facts screwed up. Or CNN and BBC do. Well, you can see how hard it is to put together this kind of puzzle. I imagine the other media are more reliable. Maybe Lenta needs some better translators. They certainly need to update their main page.
worldtrade_plane2.wmv - Too bad it's in Windows media format :(
If someone managed to get the videos mentioned in the story before they were slashdotted, I'd be happy to host'em on my box with 100Mbit/s connection.
Certainly, there are some highly visible fanatics out there. My point was that we should just be careful about the kinds of generalizations we throw around at a time like this.
** The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not reflect those of my employers - past, present, or future**
I go to high school in irvington (A amall town on the hudson river, about 10 miles from New York), and I was in class when it happened, we saw smoke coming over the horizon, we could tell aur teachers knew what was going on, All the police and fire departments in the are were brought out, but it wasint until luch that I found out from slashdot what was happening.
Kind of scary thought, seeing smoke coming from New york, and haaving all the local law enforcemwnt people coming out like that with out them telling us what was going on.
I was sent home early.
This is s great example of the usefulness of a little known invention called Hemopure. See http://www.biopure.com/oxy_therapeutics/home_oxyth er.html
It is a blood replacement made from bovine hemoglobin and saline solution. I know about it because it is rumored to currently be a very popular "blood doping" product, and I'm a bike racer. I spent over 10 years as an emergency responder, so the stability and lack of blood typing needed caught my eye--we could have really used this stuff at times!
"In addition, Hemopure is compatible with all blood types and is approved in South Africa as stable over a broad temperature range, including room temperature, for two years. In contrast, refrigerated red blood cells are type specific and have a maximum shelf life of 42 days."
Just saw - Air Force One and fighter escort arrived at Offutt a few minutes ago.. Very safe place to be.
Jesus H. Christ, quit moderating this thing. Jumping all over it, dammit. I see nothing here worth 9 moderations.
"They're sheep, mere sheep! Easily dispersed if we strike the shepherd." - King Edward
Men believe what they want. - Caesar
I just noticed on soutcast [www.shoutcast.com] there are two diffrent news feeds listed on the top page if any one wants to listen through something other then WMP and Real.
Those in other cities of the US should also keep this in mind
September 11, 2001
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Nicolette Abernathy, 512-206-1125; Leslie Searcey, 512-206-1120; or Dolly Mogonye, 512-206-1265
DISASTER REQUESTS REGARDING BLOOD DONATION
Austin, TX - The Blood and Tissue Center has been in communication all morning with the National Blood Exchange and the New York Blood Center. The National Blood Exchange is coordinating the efforts of all blood centers across the country and the tremendous outpouring of people wanting to donate blood. They are working with people at the two disaster sites to determine what blood products are needed and how many. They are also coordinating the transportation of the blood products to the disaster sites or nearby facilities that will be handling victims. As of right now, they have asked that people do not YET organize blood drives until the needs for blood have been determined - they do not want to have to waste blood products.
Currently at the Blood and Tissue Center, there have been so many people who have come to donate that there is at least a three-hour wait. The Center has pulled every available staff member into the Center at 4300 North Lamar Blvd to help process donors as quickly and efficiently as we can. In light of the requests from the New York Blood Center and the National Blood Exchange, we ask people to come donate blood later this week. Given the magnitude of these disasters, blood is going to be critically needed tomorrow, next week and beyond.
The Center will continue to update the community as developments occur. If you have questions regarding blood donation, please call the Center at 512-206-1266.
The Blood and Tissue Center of Central Texas
4300 N. Lamar Boulevard
Austin, TX 78756
Mon-Fri 8:00am-6:00pm
Sat 8:00am- 2:00pm
(512) 206-1266 Fax: (512) 458-3859
For more information, contact us at bloodandtissue@tcms.com
©1996-2001 The Blood and Tissue Center of Central Texas
Updated September 11, 2001. Online since February, 1999.
For the US as for the rest of the democracies of the world, the only solution to this problem is not to be hated that much. And the only way to not be hated that much is to not act unreasonably.
Great idea. The democracies of the world should abandon the principles on which our nations are built, so we aren't disliked by nations of religious fanatics who make Stalin look benign. Get a grip. No matter what the Western nations do, they will never be popular, because we have principles, like human rights, which we champion, but aren't convenient for dictators and fundamentalists. There is one thing these rogue states respect, and it is strength. And if they don't respect, then they need to be taught to fear it.
And that, my friend, is the New World Order.
One of the remaining planes that had been flying into North Americna air space (and refusing to respond) has been forced down in Whitehorse, Yukon Territory (Canada). Air Force officials are locking it down immediately.
----- Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. --Army of Darkness
I have started making an archive of news stories on my website, including the timeline in the last update for this story.
you can see it here
I haven't been able to get the videos, but if I do, I'll post them too.
"the fax machine is nothing but a waffle iron with a phone attached to it." - Grandpa Simpson
" A Date Which Will Live in Infamy "
f In famy.ram
Actual audio at:
http://www.soundsofhistory.com/RooseveltFD/DayO
I have been reading through the comments on this subject. I do not claim to have read them all.
It seems that many people, especially those outside the US, are susggesting that this attack was some sort of retaliation for crimes the US commits against the world. I am American. I am not always proud of everything the US does. It is stupidity to say that any country had this coming.
Comments about America inflicting itself can only be taken seriously to a point. Yes, many American companies are "invading" other countries. But the people there buy it. No one is forced to buy food at McDonalds or drink Coca-Cola. The same thing happens in the US. Businesses I previously patroned are dissappearing and being replaced by things like Starbucks and Blockbuster. I say the same thing applies here as anywhere else. If you don't like a business, don't give it your money. If you don't like Hollywood being "imposed" on your country, don't see any Hollywood films. Encourage others to do the same. In the end, the people get what they want. If they want Americanization, it will certainly find them. It is easier to blame America than it is to blame the people who let our evil nation "invade" yours.
I would also like to point out that every world power has been viewed negatively by the less powerfull. Before America it was the European Powers. It is always easy to tell America what to do when you only have to consider the consequences outside of America. If you are not American, you will not understand how the consequences will affect us.
you probably shouldn't have read this.
I agree with wysoft - /. was not made for this sort of immature crap.
I wish to give the american people and others who have suffered from this horrible attack my condolences. It was a huge blow against americans and other innocent people, it was a mockery against the value of human lives, it was a strike against freedom and democracy.
Please do never let these cowardly bastards get away with this. Never let freedom and democracy lose. Show the world and the cowards that noone can ever get away with murder - murder on humans, murder on civilization, murder on freedom.
Will work for bandwidth
When the NSA wants to be able to read all the communications in the world, this is why. It's not because they want to create a dictatorship or a tyranny (though communication monitoring is certainly a very powerful and essential tool for creating a tyranny). The NSA wants to be able to monitor all communications because they want to prevent stuff like this from happening. /. who has pissed and moaned about the NSA trying to monitor communications, go take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror. Many of you have been fond of repeating Ben Franklin's quote, "Those who sacrifice liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither freedom or safety." Do you have the balls to repeat it today? A bit harder, isn't it?
So everyone on
The NSA isn't evil. It may be wrong - we may still have to oppose their attempts to limit crypto - but the NSA serves a very necessary function, and does so with the best intentions.
Yahoo news is carrying a press release that confirms that one of their founders is dead.
--
Runnin' around, robbin' banks all whacked on the Scooby Snacks...
The difference between from what you are referencing and what has happened today is that former is a strike meant to minimize "collateral damage" or unnecessary loss of innocent life and the later was clearly intended to maximize the number of lives taken.
It is the difference between a doctor performing surgery and a maniac attacking a crowd with a sword.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
If anyone out there can scrape American Red Cross locations, I think that could be useful. Their site is clogged or down.
TIA
You knew SOMEONE was going to do it. I swear it wasn't me, but I did find the picture.
Don't mod me down...Please.
http://kotisivu.raketti.net/wadez/ter.jpg
JKoebel
The peoples of Israel and Palestine have had centuries of time to hate each other.
Anti-semitism in general is thousands of years old. This particular conflict, however, is relatively recent. What I can't understand is why more Palestinians don't blame UK -- it was that country that was the controller of the Palestinian territory after the second world war, and that country that gave it over for the formation of Israel. So, the UK should be hated even more than the Americans...
Funny thing is, we've really done nothing to them other than befriend Israel.
And a very politically loaded thing that is. The US haven't just befriended Israel -- (just like the UK) they provide them with weapons... and have used their veto at the UN to block every pro-Palestinian measure proposed.
Israel seem to have been playing a game in recent years -- 'let's see how many Palestinians we can kill without the US caring.' They're doing quite well so far.
I heard on the radio that all domestic flights have landed and are accounted for, but strangely I just saw a large jet flying west overhead (away from the nearest airport) here in Nashville. I guess they haven't all landed yet after all. Very weird. It's 2pm CST as I write this.
"The US DESERVED it"
That's what many of you are saying.
"The US needs to stay out of everyone else's business"
Well, remember WWII? The US stayed out of it, only honoring their commitments to their European partners by sending guns and money but not troops. The US tried to stay out as far as it could while honoring its commitments to its allies.
Then Pearl Harbour brought us into the war.
What if the US jumped in when Poland was being taken? WWII might have been shortened by YEARS, but no, the US leaders chose to let the War in Europe go without any true committment.
As a world superpower, we have a responsibility to diffuse situations which may pose a threat. Will people resent that?
Sure
Will the US suffer acts of terrorism for it?
Yes.
Will the US STOP impacting world affairs?
NOPE.
The ONLY thing this COWARDLY act will do is bring not just the US, but 99% of the international community down on them. That's all. The US will survive, the terrorists will be punished, and the world will keep turning.
Losers ALWAYS resent winners.
Microsoft is villified (on SLASHDOT esp.) because they are the biggest. If Linux was the size of MS empire, there would be hundreds of Anti-Linux sites. HUMANS root for the UNDERDOG. When the UNDERDOG becomes the clear victor, they attack them and support the next underdog.
The US has no intention of giving up our Superpower status or the responsibilities that come with it.
Potentially 50,000+ people have lost their lives
On CNN, Guliani, at a press conference, said that people around him had guessed about 10,000 people have lost their lives. He stressed that this was just a guess.
--Jimmy has fancy plans; and pants to match.
Okay, So it's probably safe to assume that a good amount of people in the WTC towers were wealthy investment banker-ish types. Many of these guys were probably the only source of income their families had (since they would probably make enough that their wives didn't have to work). They probably had 1 million+ dollar houses mortgaged, nice cars, etc. So it would probably be safe to assume that their life insurance policies were for several million dollars. Of course, we can't discount that there were also plenty of secretaries/sys admins/janitorial staff/deli proprietors etc. in thee towers as well. Most of them also probably had life insurance policies.
And of course we have the World Trade Center towers themselves, who are probably insured for billions.
Well, watching CNN and various other news channels, I keep seeing that many politicians and journalists are calling this "an act of war"
Folks, what is the one thing that almost no life or property insurance policies cover? You guessed it: WAR!
We're going to have possibly tens of thousands of families who depended upon a primary wage-earner to survive. These families could potentially be told by insurance companies, "Sorry, but we don't have to provide coverage for your loved ones. It was war...".
Additionally, we will have whatever group of investors counts on rental income from the WTC go completely to pot, because their property insurance on the buildings will echo the same sentiment.
As far as I'm concerned, this isn't an act of war, it's an act of terrorism. The "war" clause in insurance policies is there as a last resort... it's meant to protect the insurance companies if half the major cities in the US get nuked to the ground. But I have no doubt that many of these companies will try to use this clause to their advantage.
I'm going to be sending a letter to my Senators and Representatives in a few days (obviously they have more important things on their minds right now) urging them to pass a temporary law that prevents insurance companies from pulling these sorts of sh> igans. I urge everyone else to do the same.
You should be required to pack a gun to fly on a commercial airliner.
I'm tired of worrying about feeling helpless while some maniac mows down the passengers and points the plane at a skyscraper.
If everyone packs a gun, and the airlines fly at an altitude where depressurization is not catastrophic, this problem is solved.
GWB's political pukes are aruging with the Secret Service about where airforce One is going to go...the SS wants bush in NORAD, and the pukes want him in the freakin whitehouse
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
I thought a lot about the events and this is what I came to:
:(
The most profit(overall) was gained by U.S. government. Why? Let me tell you.
U.S. actions are not really in favor outside the country. Lots of people are really depressed by what US is/was doing at Syria, Livan, Bosnia, Afganistan and others.
Now - with such facts (many people died, that's only _proven_ thing) - and with 'right' press coverage the government will turn all world against muslim & arabic countries. Just look at the news - Britain, Germany, Russia and lots of others say - 'yeah we must fight'.
Think about it - is it REALLY profitable for, e.g. Osama Bin Laden? Does he really look like kamikaze? No, he makes money that way.
Looking further in the future I can draw this:
US will occupate some middle-eastern countries and PLEASE NOTE THIS, gain access to LOTS of oil. This means very big money.
Yes, maybe I am f*cking paranoid. But maybe not?
And by the way, I am not muslim or arabic or terrorist and I don't like killing people. It's rather big tragedy that so many people died. Enought said, everybody now is saying it's horrible, and it is indeed. From my point of view it is much more horrible
--
artano
Tomorrow one of Bin Laden's associates was scheduled to be sentenced, in a courthouse right across from the WTC.
A wise man once said, "He that gives up his freedom for security, soon loses both."
For the US as for the rest of the democracies of the world, the only solution to this problem is not to be hated that much. And the only way to not be hated that much is to not act unreasonably. Which means - among other things - that the response to today's event must be strictly limited to individuals who are provably in the direct chain of command to today's event - and not thousands of civilians who just happen to live in the same town.
Thus spake the mantra of the weak and foolish. I agree that in a closed society which lives by the same mores and can agree amiably on how punishment works, this approach may work. However, we are talking about a diverse set of peoples who have vastly differing world perceptions than our own--there can be no meeting of minds, no consolidation of belief, and no amicable parting. The world cannot expect a country to be attacked and lay silent just because it's inconvenient for the grass when elephants fight. If you want to do something to make the world sitation better, help us extinguish the threat, don't mock us for doing something about it.
The US chooses its allies, aids the countries which stand for the same causes and beliefs that are harmonious with ours, and that's final. Every country with enough money to do so, does. Communist Russia did so for ages. China still does. It's common sense that it serves a country's purposes to forward its idealism wherever it can. This conflicts with countries who are opposed to our allies, and indirectly the USA.
As far as this day's atrocities are concerned, they are an act of war. They were committed on an unsuspecting civilian populace in times of outward peace, on our nation's soil. It should not, and will not be, tolerated. The peacemongers in the world might roll over and be marched to their deaths like so many cattle--fine, let them--but in this world the meek inherit the scraps.
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
Here's my take
i agree...... that just blindly going in and blowing the shit out of everything we can find that had some association to this event isn't a good idea. But i cannot, for the life of me, fathom letting this slide!! i mean, for Christ's Sake! there is no way you can let a group of people who killed this many innocent lives go on. if we take the pacifist route, turn the other cheek, we will be walked all over, we will loose our freedom. We must show the world that this will not stand. we will not put up with this. but a bullet in the head of every person who was involved is not enought for those who feel that if they die against America they automaticaly go to heaven. we must find a just punishment, to make them feel that they've royaly fucked up the works.
let them feel that they awoke the bear, and it's real fucking pissed
I sit here and think of all the options we have, and the only one i can see that comes out best is the revenge/retaliation route. if someone sees other ways, tell us........ i want to hear it
Justin Hart
If you see me running, try and keep up
There's a good chance I don't know what the hell I'm talking about
rebuild the Pentagon and give it six sides!
Fox News just confirmed that the area of the Pentagon that the plane crashed into this morning was under construction, and as such there weren't as many people there as there could have been.
Whether it's related or not, one of the offices destroyed was the Office for Homeland Defense, which does anti-terrorism work.
We will take your shit DOWN!
I know we've all said snide things about the President in the past - myself included - , but the time for that is over. As another poster already mentioned, we are either at war, or so close as to make no difference. And in wartime, we stand behind our leaders and trust them - any other way leads to chaos. President Bush is pissed as hell, and he will get the nation the vengeance it needs. What we need to do is support him.
I'm the stranger...posting to
Where is John McClau (Bruce Willis) when somebody more need him?
Check in here if you're alive in New York City or any other affected city:
http://www.shunn.net/okay/
I'm also in London (the Wharf), and we had a large proportion of staff on hand to deal with potential problems this week handling NY business.
'Going home' was an option for everyone - only a few people did though...
Like many of you, I watched todays unfolding events with horror, disbelief, anger and sadness. And, there will be those who are jumping up and down in jubilation that the Great Satan has been hit.
But, let's look at this for what it is, pure cowardise designed to strike terror in the hearts of people who have done no harm to anyone. The dead and wounded are people who were going to work, visiting relatives, or going home. They are people, much like those who have experienced terror at the hands of fanatics simply for living in a land whose government the fanatics deplore. There is no rational for the killing of innocent people. Anyone who thinks otherwise are clearly not of sound mind or thinking in a manner that western civilization can not comprehend.
The United States takes a lot of blame for some of the stances it takes on many issues. The same United States provided food, shelter, medicine and other humanitarian assistance to many nations that are incapable of doing so themselves during a disaster or national emergency. The United States provides assistance to nations who fall prey to aggression from outside nations such as the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq or the killing of the Kurds by Iraq. They do so because of treaties, agreements, national interest or purely on moral grounds.
Where would these people be if the United States and other nations stood idly by and did absolutely nothing? What would happen if the United States simple turned a blind eye to the plights of millions because of a few ignorant or fanatical people?
I do not know who is responsible for this attrocity. And, I strongly feel that once the identity of the those response are discovered, that no expense be spared until they are either brought to justice of meet their maker. But, I also implore that we don't take to the streets and exact revenge on anyone simple because of their heritage. We need to rise above the feelings of anger and hate.
Let's find out who is truly responsible for this attack and then make it clear, by our very strong actions, that terrorism will not be tolerated. Let those governments and individuals that support terrorism know that we have had enough and we will exercise our might to erratic them at all costs.
But, for now, let's pray for those who perished and their families. Tomorrow, we fight back against those that did this to us. Then, it will be time to grieve and remember so that this does not happen again.
I'd just like to applaud those people out there that have really been on the ball the past few hours keeping us updated. That must be a whole lot of work.
-Music Tinker
Our sympathies to the relatives of the victims of the World Trade Center collapse.
Now do the right thing, Mr. Bush -- if Osama bin Laden was behind this, find him and his henchmen and blow them into the next dimension.
Its amazing our media has begun repeating themselves. you would think there was not enough news to report on. I have heard we havent seen this since pearl harbour no less than 100 times. To of all things "Oh the humanity" - hindinberg
But lets look at some key points here. I have heard them ask how could this happen with our tight security also I have heard they were well organized to even be able to get these people into the US. I think alot of these statements are missfounded. Chances are these people who hijacked the planes have been in the US for awhile. Assuming this was some eastern world group. There are more than enough of them In the US so as to not be to challenged pulling this off. A worker at the metal detector and xray machine. letting people through Its not hard to believe. Look at what happened in SAC california earlier this weeK a security gaurd killed 5 people. Christ did you see this guys house. He had a 12 foot fence around it with razor wire. And this guy passed a back ground check? So its not far fetched to believe that people of legal or illegal nature have cam to the US and have participated in this action in some way. The prob becomes who do you trust? I am not a white supremacist or any other affiliationi. I could care less who lives in the US. If you abide by the laws. But it is obvious that our security is too lax and our rules for entering this company on an H1b or however do not go far enough to keep the dirt out of our streets.
(deep breath... this is the most horrible thing I have ever experienced)
Is it currently feasible to completely map and simulate the infrastructure of the modern industrialized world with a virtual, networked "home/mobile version" that allow us to get around the requirement having to fly or enter tall buildings which we could carry around on our laptops or pdas?
Buildings and cities are ultimately communication centers. We don't need to be in close proximity to communicate (very intimately even) anymore.
Buildings and cities should remain in their communication center roles, only as computer centers, not people centers. This is a trend which has already begun and should be continued.
Sorry if this is redundant, but if you need to find out where you can donate blood, call the red cross at 1-888-393-GIVE
Help find a cure for cancer!
Structural design flaws or additional explosives involved? Of course a 757 is bigger than a 707.
Engineers shocked by
towers' collapse
BY BLAIR KAMIN
Chicago Tribune
CHICAGO -- The World Trade Center, a
symbol of American economic might, survived
one terrorist attack in 1993. It was designed to
withstand the impact of a jet, but both its
towers collapsed this morning after planes
rammed them.
The structural engineer who designed the
towers said as recently as last week that their
steel columns could remain standing if they
were hit by a 707.
Les Robertson, the Trade Center's structural
engineer, spoke last week at a conference on
tall buildings in Frankfurt, Germany. He was
asked during a question-and-answer session
what he had done to protect the twin towers
from terrorist attacks, according to Joseph
Burns, a principal at the Chicago firm of
Thornton-Thomasetti Engineers.
Burns, who was present, said that Robertson
said of the center, ``I designed it for a 707 to
smash into it.''
Burns, whose firm did the structural engineering
for the Petronas Twin Towers in Malaysia --
the world's tallest buildings -- said Robertson
did not elaborate on the remark. Robertson
could not be reached early Tuesday.
Completed in 1972 and 1973, the 110-story
twin towers were the fifth and sixth tallest
buildings in the world. One World Trade
Center, finished in 1972, was briefly after its
construction the world's tallest building. The towers have been called
``a monumental gate to New York and the United States.''
They withstood the 1993 attack, when a bomb-laden van exploded,
killing six people and injuring more than 1,000.
Closely spaced steel columns that ringed their perimeter held up the
World Trade Center towers. Chicago's Aon Center (formerly the
Amoco Building), completed in 1973, uses a similar support system,
known to structural engineers as a ``tube.''
Shocked by the building's collapse, structural engineers pointed to fire
as the likely cause of the structural failure.
``Fire melts steel,'' Burns said. In addition, he said, the impact of the
plane could have severely damaged the building's sprinklers, allowing
the fire to rage, despite fireproofing supposed to protect steel columns
and beams.
``You never know in an explosion like that whether they (the
sprinklers) get cut off,'' Burns said.
Architects Minoru Yamasaki and Associates, in association with
Emery Roth & Sons, designed the World Trade Center.
The structural engineers were the firm of Skilling, Helle, Christiansen,
Robertson. The developer was The Port Authority of New York and
New Jersey.
Tuesday's attack marked the second time that a plane has crashed
into a New York City skyscraper, although the first incident was an
accident.
In 1945, a B-25 flying at 200 miles per hour slammed into the 78th
and 79th floors of the Empire State Building, gouging an
18-by-20-foot hole 913 feet above the streets of Manhattan. The
pilot, Lt. Col. William F. Smith Jr., had been heading from New
York's LaGuardia Airport to Newark, N.J., when he became
disoriented.
Fourteen people died in the crash and the fire that followed -- three
people in the plane and 11 in what was then the world's tallest
building.
Like the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, which also was struck
by a plane, provided a sizable and symbolic target.
The Pentagon is the world's largest office building, with a total of 6.5
million square feet, serves as headquarters for the world's most
powerful military. Sears Tower, by comparison, has about 3.5 million
square feet of office space.
Beta sux! Join the Slashcott! http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4760465&cid=46173047
Ghandi was gunned down by a religious fanatic. That's what happens when you spout candyass pacifist bromides instead of fighting back against those who attack you.
Talking about the middle east is a little premature. I only put the Israel vs Palestine thing in as an aside -- I should have realised it was too sensitive. That said:
You can't have reconcilliation with them. They don't reason. They don't ask for any quarter.
Oh, they reason, and you can have reconcilliation. Don't make the mistake of making Islam into some uncaring, sand-blast the world religion. Just like the Spanish Inquisition, like the Crusaders, like the Conquistadors were no representatives of Christianity, Islam can be twisted and tainted by fanatical madman. They don't represent Islam, but their own idiocy.
The trick is to make countries secure enough that they don't need to resort to extremism. Isolating a country is not the way to do this (I am amazed, for example, that the US still isolate Cuba -- this is another example that the fundamentalist uses to illustate the arbirary uncaring nature of the US).
Laugh all you want, but bombing places into the ground and killing isn't the answer. If it were, 1/4 of the world would still be part of the glorious British empire. The US is now the biggest, the wealthiest, the most important country in the world. Learn from the lessons of previous empires if you want to stay that way.
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
A friend of a friend who works there reported that a bomb was found in front of a building quartering Baltimore Gas & Electric.
We'll probably never know exactly how much more mayhem was planned for us today.
No, it's not even close to what a tactical nuke would have done. A 5-kiloton yield warhead would kill 98% of the people within one square kilometer instantly just from the pressure (~12psi). Out to about 3 square km you have 50% fatalies from pressure (~5psi). The thermal effects would be fatal (6.7 cal/cm^2) to a radius of about 1.3km and there would be significant injuries out to about 1.8km radius. Immediate radiation would be lethal to 90% of those within 1.2 km of this "low-yield" "clean" burst.
Also thanks to the radiation, clean up and rescue proceeds at a snail's pace.
And that's the low end of sub-strategic yields. The B-61 is lower, at about 1 kiloton, but you also have tactical nukes like those on the Trident that would cause an estimated 200,000 fatalities in an urban area with density similar to Moscow.
Only for a loose definition of "approach" does this tragedy begin to approach the amount of destruction nuclear weapons are capable of even in their tactical form.
But it doesn't look like a one-man show.
Unbelievable!
Who can possibly gain anything from this?
Religious fanatics?
Financial interests?
Wag the dog...
All the "experts" in the news believe that a large organisation is behind this and that it has been planned for months, but how many people does it take to hijack and crash 4 planes?
The world is full of crazy fanatics willing to die for a cause and some of them knows how to get through airport security and possibly fly a plane as well - I can't believe the real pilot crashed it into the buildings.
We need to take decisive and immediate action
to send a message to the rest of the world and
in particular the middle east.
I hope that we allocate 50 percent of the US
nuclear arsenal and bombard the area east of
Israel with at least 10 kilotons/square mile
of ordinance, using ICBMs is possible. We should
ask Russia and the eastern bloc to contribute
some of their weapons as well.
By doing this we will permenantly remove the
threats from these (former) countries and put
and end, once and for all to the continuous
fighting in that region.
Of course, this will have some side effects, but
they should be manageable, especially in the US
and western Europe.
All talk of peace and appeasement are the words
of fools or worse. No good has ever come of
cooperating with terrorists or the nations that
house them. Many innocent arabs and others will
have to die to solve this problem. The blood of
these innocents will be upon those who planned
and condoned the attacks against the US today.
http://sf-web1.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/f_headline .cgi?day0/212542407&ticker=akam
BW2407 SEP 11,2001 11:23 PACIFIC 14:23 EASTERN
( BW)(MA-AKAMAI-TECHNOLOGIES)(AKAM) Akamai Technologies Mourns the Loss of Co-Founder and CTO Daniel Lewin
Business Editors
CAMBRIDGE, Mass.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Sept. 11, 2001--With great sadness, Akamai Technologies, Inc. (Nasdaq:AKAM) today announced the passing of Daniel C. Lewin, co-founder, chief technology officer and board member of the Company. American Airlines confirmed that he was on board the Boston to Los Angeles flight that crashed in New York City today. Danny was 31 years old and is survived by his wife and two sons.
George H. Conrades, chairman and chief executive officer of Akamai said, "Danny was a wonderful human being. He will be deeply missed by his many friends at Akamai. Our thoughts and prayers are with Danny's family, friends and colleagues during this time of national tragedy and personal loss."
Akamai Technologies, Inc. (Nasdaq:AKAM).
--30--KO/na*
CONTACT: Akamai
Caryn Brownell, 617/444-4661
cbrownell@akamai.com
KEYWORD: MASSACHUSETTS
INDUSTRY KEYWORD: COMPUTERS/ELECTRONICS
SOURCE: Akamai Technologies, Inc.
Biggest thing we can do is to ensure that they don't repeat this incident- ever. If that means bombing some "poorly defended" country that is financing/training them- so be it.
You're wrong, there is a third way. We pull 100% of the 2-30 billion dollars a year we give to Israel in financial aid. We pull 100% of any market presence, business, or diplomatic relations we have in that area. No trade, no money, no bizness, no nothing. To them we will no longer exist. Let all sides have at it til they are fighting with sticks and stones or are all dead. Then we go back in and pick up the peices.
There are multiple "black boxes" found on aircraft that are used as data recorders. These are typically manufactured from stainless steel. The boxes are no longer black but painted high visibility orange or red to aid in their recovery in the event of an accident.
Incidentally, most of what the "black boxes" measure has to do with figuring out what the plane was doing rather than what the pilots are doing and saying.
I play Nerd-Folk!
What a load of bunk! The U.S. has worked to reduce world inequity -- and this is what we get in return?! Screw 'em, I'm all for using force now!!!
10 Steps to drive a country to his knees :
1- Shut down the stock market, so no one can longer differ by saying he have a lot of $$$ since its no longer valued and leave them die like animals
2- Kill thousands of innocents poeple with, as exemple, 2 plane crash on the in the biggest city of the country
3- Put the blame on your actual biggest problematic enneny country (ex. Israel)
4- Bring few major compagny to a so slow day that they will close by themselve and leave their staff homeless
5- Kill the communications, this will bring the folks down the street to manifest all toghether
6- Seal the border wich you used to keep open (w/ Canada and Mexico) - no more food, water, electricity, wood and metal so required by
7- Put the army down the street by saying some stupidity...
8- Request the President to tell some patriotic speech and go kill every musulman for the love of God
9- Invoke Satan to get some help and turn your country into darkness for the next century to come...
10- No need for #10, every citizens will already be dead from the nuclear attack of the Israli...
Any intelligent comments now ?? Why do American always thinks they are the only humans to live over the whole planet. Stupids A$$h0l3
What we need to do is:
1. Find out who is responsible.
2. Try to bring those who are responsible to justice WITHOUT USING MILITARY METHODS.
Instead we should focus on building a strong international cooparation and use the countries combined police and antiterrosist resources to apprehend them and bring them to an international court.
We should really try to stop thinking about this issue in military terms. Military actions are meant to be used in confrontations betwen nations and/or large groups of united people. I do not think they are the best method to bring down small groups of people, like terroristgroups. Its just not the right tool for the job, and might damage the process to find and convict the people responsible.
there is an interesting commentary on today's events here.
http://techienews.utropicmedia.com help us beta!!!
you can't donate blood if you're a smoker, can you? i really wanted to, but i think i've been told before that i can't.
Every terrorist faction in the world will be affected by this. We know where the camps are, we know who the leaders are
What's the use of the truth if you can't tell a lie sometimes?
Why would Palestinian terrorists target the USA?
Well, perhaps because the USA has exacerbated the mid-East problems, rather than help reduce them.
From BigEye's Foreign Correspondent. No idea how truthful all this is, mind you, but I'm fairly sure it's worth consideration:
BUSH FIDDLES WHILE PALESTINE BURNS
NEW YORK - Pre-election concerns that George W. Bush had a weak grasp of world affairs have been confirmed by a succession of ideology-driven blunders and amateurish fumbles made by his administration that have damaged America's interests and image around the globe.
To whit: trying to rush the anti-missile defense project when there was no need for haste; the tactless rejection of the Kyoto environment accords; Washington's crude enlistment of India in a new anti-Chinese alliance; boycotting this weekend's UN racism conference at Durban: and, most disturbingly, fiddling while Palestine burns.
Who, one wonders, is running US foreign policy? Certainly not the nearly invisible `stealth' Secretary of State Colin Powell. America's first black Secretary of State was not allowed to go to an African-oriented conference in Durban because Israel was being accused of racism.
Last week, Bush berated PLO chief Yasser Arafat for failing to end `Palestinian violence.' Soon after, Israel assassinated Mustafa Zibri, a senior Palestinian political leader, by firing Maverick missiles from Apache helicopter gunships into his office.
The next day, Israeli M-60 tanks and M-113 armored personnel carriers occupied the Palestinian Christian town of Beit Jala.
Meanwhile, it has been revealed that Israel is using the M494 105mm APERS-T tank round against Palestinians. This deadly round, designed for use against enemy anti-tank missile crews, disperses a conical spray of 5,000 tiny, razor-sharp darts known as flechettes. In the past, Israel has also used anti-personnel cluster bombs against Palestinian refugee camps.
All of the above-noted weapons were supplied to Israel by the United States. Israel is also using an arsenal of other US-supplied weapons, from F-16 fighters to M-16 rifles, against Palestinians. Israeli-designed Merkava tanks `pacifying' rebellious Palestinians were built with US military aid.
Israel is the largest ever recipient of US foreign aid - at least $91 billion since 1949, a sum that could have bought four complete aircraft carrier battle groups ( about 80 ships) for the US Navy. Each year, Israel gets $3-5 billion in US aid.
The 1998 Wye River `peace' accords negotiated by President Clinton gave Israel an extra US $380 million for Apache helicopter gunships and armored vehicles - both currently being used against Palestinians. Just before leaving office, Clinton, quietly sent Congress a request for an additional US$800 million in military aid for Israel, a gift no doubt aimed at securing his future in publishing and Hollywood. Soon after, in a startling coincidence, Clinton received a book contract for $12 million.
Many American conservatives and Jewish Americans are praising Bush for giving Israel's rightwing government carte blanche to crush the Palestinian uprising and assassinate its leadership. VP Dick Cheney has repeatedly accused Palestinian of `terrorism' while praising Israel's `restraint.' One wonders what Washington's response would be if the PLO began assassinating Israeli politicians who advocate murdering or ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Israel brushes aside occasional tut-tuts from the US State Department, and ignores charges its American-supplied weapons are being used in direct violation of the US Arms Export Control Act, which forbids recipients use of American arms except for national self defense in wartime.
The White House and US Congress, fearful of antagonizing the Israel lobby, have refused to address this issue. Ironically, it was left to Gush Shalom, the courageous Israeli peace movement, to protest to Bush the clearly illegal use of American arms against Palestinians.
It is increasingly clear that unless the mayhem in Palestine is ended, the entire Mideast could careen towards an explosion. Ariel Sharon, Israel's rightwing Prime Minister, has painted himself into a corner by vowing to crush the `intifada' and never allow a viable Palestinian state. Having provoked the current uprising, and vowed to break its back, Sharon now finds himself trapped in a cycle of violence, terror and counter-terror.
Sharon's only answer so far is more of what he has done his entire career: blowing up houses, assassination, martial law, collective punishments. Now Sharon's aides are hinting at attacks against Syria, Lebanon, Iran, and even Egypt. Israeli critics are warning the Sharon is running amok and must be reigned in.
Given Sharon's adamant refusal to halt Jewish colonization or allow a Palestinian state, Palestinians have no reason to halt their uprising. Only America has the power to push the two sides into an eventual peace agreement.
Israel's brutal repression of the Palestinian `intifada' is being telecast around the globe, producing rage against Israel and its patron, the United States, and a worldwide surge of anti-semitism. America's strategic and economic interests across the Mideast and Muslim World are being threatened by the agony of Palestine, which inevitably invites terrorist attacks against US citizens and property.
President Bush needs to act urgently. He needs to help Sharon find a way out of the corner in which he is stuck. Sharon has left himself no line of political retreat - other than being seen to bow to irresistible American pressure. Bush and VP Dick Cheney should cease helping Israel's rightwing and its American media mouthpieces demonize Yasser Arafat, who, however guilty of condoning violence, is the man with whom Israel has to make peace. Being rightwing does not automatically make one right.
Bush's vanishing act over the Mideast has handed the initiative by default to Arab and Israeli extremists. Unless the US forcefully intervenes, Hamas suicide bombers and Sharon's death squads will determine policy. The result will be a disaster for Jews and Arabs alike.
Bush is being irresponsible and dishonest by pretending America has nothing to do with this horrible mess. America has everything to do with it and could stop the carnage overnight if the White House showed sufficient political will and courage. Bush needs to recall the old adage, he who pays the piper, calls the tune.
Copyright: Eric S. Margolis 2001
Again, perhaps this fellow is lying or out-to-lunch. But if what he states is truthful, I think it's fair to say that the fanatics have just cause to be pissed off (and that's not to say that they are excused for being terrorists.)
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
What is most shocking of all is how easy the terrorists made this look. I can imagine a situation with a single person undertaking this alone. It requires no weapons at all. Any seemingly ordinary person can walk abord a loaded flight. If the person is large/strong enough, it seems conceivable he/she would be able to knock down the few flight staff necessary to get to the cockpit and take over from there. Is it so hard to believe that someone could have knowledge of how to fly these widely used aircraft with precision? The plane could then be aimed at any building desired. It can happen so fast, it will be over before we know it.
As far as I'm concerned, this changes the entire concept of commercial aviation. The industry will never be the same again. Every detail of the flight experience must be completely rethought. And think about other countries flying in here. Any person in the world can go on a kamikaze mission like this alone. Every legal flight must be totally monitored and that requires international cooperation.
Don't even get me started about the prospects of commercial spacecraft.
I think I'll take the train for now.
Who modded this as a troll? It was a modded as funny and thats what it is. Some Moderators are just plain stupid.
An optimist believes we live in the best world possible; a pessimist fears this is true.
Well, whoever did this is dead. Apparently, they were more than happy to die in order to piss off America.
First, I am posting anonymously because I don't have an account nor do I percieve a need for one.
Stick to posting rumours about Linux and computing, this is the most childish reporting I have seen since my high school newspaper.
You guys will just thow any rumour you hear in an article and breathlessly relate it as substantiated fact.
Leave hard news reporting to the adults, kiddies, you are just displaying your unworthiness to report ANY news.
For readers, turn to a reliable source and disregard ANYTHING concerning this recent tragedy that you read on this site.
(16:45) BBC: Palestinian group says responsible for WTC attack
This Jerusalem post article says.
basically questions whether the DFLP is responsible.
I just spent all my moderation points and ignored
this, but this one certainly needs it. INSIGHTFUL would be proper.
I like the first suggestion. Do a good-old NYC style Mafia hit and wack Ben Laden ... guilty or not ... just to send a message.
I've found that the best place to find videos of the attack is on Morpheus, a free P2P file sharing community like Gnutella (but with banner ads). The software can be downloaded at http://www.musiccity.com
See, MPAA/RIAA? Filesharing is GOOD.
i've been listening to an NYPD shoutcast stream, and they're talking about a possible day care center collapsing (?). does anyone have news on this?
The chances that a truckload of fertilizer could blow the whole building is extremely remote. Plus Timothy wouldn't plea "guilty" if he really did it. Yeah, he may have been hired by Arafat, but he didn't blow it up, that was done by an Arab.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
I'm on Elliot Ave. W. in Seattle and what I'm wondering is why like every 20 mins. for the last like 3 hours have emergency vehichles been screeming by? I mean... what are they doing??
Please help! I'm stuck inside my virtual reality headset!
Boston.com is listing that Daniel Lewin, co-founder of Akamai, did in fact die in the WTC plane crash
This is not true. The actual date is the 17th. There're things all over the web, but the Jimmy Carter Library is a good place to start.
OTOH, the Bin-Ladin associate whose trial was scheduled in NYC, in the courthouse down the street from the trade center, seems a more likely explanation to me.
But then, I don't know what's going on, so grain of salt yourself.
- Stonecypher
I gaurantee you that it wasn't Athiests. Four planes with suicide attacks. It had to have been a group with strong religious beliefs about the attack. Only those with a 'holy' mission would end their own lives like this.
/Duncan
Duncan Watson
I am certain that there are tremendous efforts underway to find and interpret the data on the flight recorders of the airplanes. Rarely are suicide bombers recorded during their attacks, but these people should have been.
I cannot bring myself to believe that the captains of the planes were alive during these attacks, but I also don't understand how the planes could have been flown so precisely by amateurs -- unless the purchase of the jetliner simulator by that Saudi prince is not just the toy that it was taken to be. And, if the terrorists were schooled well in the airplanes, they would have known how to disable the flight recorders, unfortunately.
We'll see.
thad
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
The large portion of Americans would die on their feet before living on their knees.
Only if they had trouble seeing the television from their knees, I'm afraid.
--saint
Akamai's press release can be found here.
NYC September 11th, 2001
From the book of Centuries (Nostradamus)
In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb
brothers = Twin towers?
fortress = The Pentagon?
great leader = GWB, USA?
Can we please stop seeing what it's like to live everyday in other countries in the world?
Can we go back to pretending the world is a happy and safe place soon?
Can we please do so before my favourite television program is on tonight? Because I'll be really mad if it's pre-empted because of this.
Disclaimer: If you need a disclaimer to recognize sarcasm, then you should read more.
In addition to the fact that Osama bin Ladin (sp?) is one of the few people with the resoures and organization to do somthing like this, he has set off explosives at the trade center before. Furthermore, this is the anniversary of the camp david peace accord. All circumstantial evidence, true, but it does make bin Laden the most likely suspect.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
Did he say "its ok because these civilians supported a government that we were at war with?"
How did he justify killing civilians, deliberately? With an atom bomb. That killed 70,000 instantly and 55,000 later from radiation poisoning?
So the question is, are civilians of an aggressive nation accountable for the actions of its government? If so, then Hiroshima was ok, but then so was this attack.
If not, of course, then I'm sure the US will happily bring to trial, or assasinate, its own diplomats who were fully aware of the civilian deaths in central america, africa, vietnam, indonesia, iraq...
The guy responsible for the deaths in central america (the disappeared) is about to take his place in the senate, I believe. Start with him, why dont you.
Dont get me wrong, I think the deaths are totally unacceptable. The question is, "How could they have been avoided?". Is there a change in US foreign policy that might reduce the suffering of the rest of the world cause by american aggression?
if this is state-sponsored, we need to seriously consider tactical nuclear weapons on military targets. NOT CONVENTIONAL, NUCLEAR! We need to show these fucks who's the fucking boss in this world. If these fucks think they can mess with the United States, they have another thing coming. Bin Laden just commited suicide, as well as his other fucking terrorist buddies. Hit squads are already being formed.
Good point.
Now please substitute other country names in the place of "America". eg.
"I do not know if you are Iraqi or not but.."
"I do not know if you are Palestinan or not but.."
"I do not know if you are Mexican or not but.."
"I do not know if you are Afghani or not but.."
"I do not know if you are Africa-America or not but.."
etc.
Using your point of view all of today's events might be easily explained. If you are any one of these other nationalities you can quickly rule out your first option "isolate", which brings us to your second option.(See today's headlines)
McViegh was an Atheist, but you are right.
Obviously, given the disturbing unreadiness of our system of national defense, a Neanderthal-territorial attitude will do nothing if looney fanatics are responsible (especially if those loonies are residents of Israel). Shall we invade the state of Israel and take military control of the West Bank etc.? I don't want WWIII and neither does anyone else! Full scale war will not result in anything good, as far as I can tell, and as the country with the most to lose it is not in our best interest to start one. Particularly against a country that may not exist! The terrorists may have had Russian, Chinese, or American weapons and equipment for all we know. Maybe they were Americans.
We all despise these people and want them brought into the system so we can have our way with them, and that's fine, but content-free statements about getting tough and this incident "not standing" only bring disorder. Let's find them, bring them, and if the evidence convinces us, throw the motherfucking book at them. But let's do it with a level head, and save the barbarism for the execution.
A bigger problem: what to do about the hordes of Palestinians celebrating in the street over the tragic deaths of tens of thousands of Americans? These people are human beings, and any human easily grasps the "wrongness" of mass slaughter, so why are people happy about this?
The true issue falls along these lines.
-Rene
See you on the playa.
This is not right. ALL radars show bad values near the radar station. This is not a dust cloud at all. (Unless you believe that there's also a huge dust cloud around, say, Nashville or Houston as well.)
The cloud wouldn't extend that far. However, papers from the blast were seen miles away, and a reporter ten blocks from the explosions said he could taste the dust in the air.
Incredible coordination and piloting skills... How is it possible that two airplanes were flown into those targets on the NY skyline? Those guys were trained, and trained well. NPR mentioned that the attacks couldn't have happened without a lot of help from the inside (i.e., U.S. citizens). Was it conducted by U.S. citizens, a sort of Timothy McVeigh rerun? It really makes you wonder.
The Death Penalty: Killing people to show others that killing people is wrong.
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos,
while the fortress endures,
the great leader will succumb" ,
"The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
- Nostradamus 1654
As for the US's retaliation, I think it should be swift and decisive. I think there should be a battery of cruise missles launched at every known, suspected or rumored terrorist hangout, EVERYWHERE in the world. There are arguments to this that we should wait until we are sure who it is, that we should not retaliate at all because this will just perpetuate the hostilities.
This is bull-shit. When colombian drug dealers killed DEA agent, Kiki Camarena, the DEA broke down every suspected drug dealer's door with or without evidence of any crimes. The DEA fucked them up really good. Since that time, DEA agents have led charmed lives. In many cases DEA agents are in peril, but only live because the Druggies know better than to touch a DEA agent for the repercussions. In the same light, it is clear to me and should be to everyone else that a serious strike against ALL possible/suspected terrorist organizations will send a similar message.
I think we should consider the movie "The Siege" with Denzel Washington. In the movie, following three or four terrorist attacks the city of New York was brought to a standstill. They declared Marshall Law. This was the effect on one city. In real life, with todays terrorist attacks, most state universities were shut down, many, many businesses all over the nation are closed. Lots of people will begin to live in fear.
This is, of course, what the terrorists want. When we begin to live in fear, we have betrayed the principles of our very country. We must strike back at these and all terrorists. We must send a message to this sick and twisted community that the US will not stand for this.
Beyond whatever reprisals the President decides to launch. I think we will begin to see some other serious repercussions. Do you think air travel will be the same? I thought it was very strict as it was. We may have to submit to cavity searches before too long.
Here's an interesting issue and one that is well to debate on Slashdot. It is said on just about all the major news networks that there has been an intelligence breakdown. That the terrorists use sophisticated encryption measures and that our intelligence agencies are under-funded and don't have the ability to keep tabs on the terrorists. Question: would you be willing to trade your personal privacy for maybe some further measure of security from terrorists? Would you grant the people running Carnivore greater rights into your life in order to perhaps prevent more events like this? Is the encryption export ban such a bad thing when stacked against 50,000 people's lives?
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
I don't know if we should put up with a greater intelligence presence. I know that is what we will experience. That is pretty clear. But what is obvious to me is that we must rise above this, we must not live in fear, and we must make these sons-of-bitches PAY for what they've done to assure that they can never do it again.
>>Violence induces more violence. Retaliation will only lead to more deaths. If you are a citizen of the U.S. of America, please write your representative right now and ask him to join a plea for peace. Historically the U.S. reaction to this kind of attack is to counter strike.
You should spend some time walking around downtown NYC, then see what kind of letter you'd like to write.
There are bodies in the streets here. There are Firemen and Cops (rescue workers) buried beneath the towers. There are thousands of dead here. Maybe 10's of thousands. We don't know yet.
I don't know who's dead yet, but I know that I'm going to funerals soon. Funerals that I shouldn't have to have attended for many many years.
My sister works in the WTC.
The only letter I'll be writing to a representative (if at all)is for more military spending, and for a tougher policy against terrorism.
America will survive this, but today everything changed.
Microsoft Fucking Sucks!! Up The Penguins!!
Which Flight sim is the favorite terrorist training tool?
Obviously the terrorist have had some flight training.
How to keep a plane flying.
How to identify where they are flying to.
How to fly into a target.
etc..
Serves them fuckers right for putting the boot on Homers car in front of those gawd forsaken twin towers... This ones for you Homer! Whoooo... Whoooo!!!!
So, without further delay... dear Uncle Sam. It has come to my attention that you have been ignoring the constitution for a quite some time now. I notice that you are pulling yourself and the country (and perhaps the world) down into a bottomless pit of despair, slavery and subjective servitude. I noticed that you are following the pattern of so many great civilizations that fell from within, by going against your core foundations while extending and expanding beyond what you were meant to do.
I notice that defense has taken a backseat to police actions and 'wag-the-dog' situations in order to further your members' political careers and fame. I have also seen that in your laughable Department of Defense, you have chosen to abandon the code of the warrior and instead focus on creating and promoting politicians, yes-men, career-minded wimps and fraternity laden pretty boys.
I have also noticed that a rather alarming amount of resources (economical, personnel and chronological) has been diverted to give lip service and fill government buildings in order to give off the front that you 'care' about various causes. I notice that, just like the founding fathers warned against and made the constitution for, that you are stripping the honest hard working and decent citizens of this country of their rights, liberties, property and dignity all in the name of 'the people' (although it is more accurate to say "For the CHILDREN"). I notice that criminals of all sorts, the world over are living in a Utopia of opportunity while victims are ignored and forgotten just as the lessons from the past and present are forgotten.
I notice that you have mimicked countries like the USSR and Nazi Germany in your policy of having the general populace always under suspicion, while you play your little power nabbing games and empower the criminals. I notice that while I myself choose not to poison my mind and body with drugs, that you have deigned it necessary to involve yourself in that personal decision, while always as a policy of 'helping protect us from ourselves'.... yet as history has shown before, you punish the choosers, but the criminals that hurt and kill regardless of their chemistry at the time are set free.
I notice that our military and other 'agencies' are being used to extend that iron fist to other countries even after innocents are murdered and the cause later justified as righteous because you 'meant well'. I notice on the technological front that there is a borderless and boundary-less communication and interaction network in place that you wish to subvert and: monitor, censor, control, restrict, incarcerate and zone off because you 'don't know what people might be trading, sharing or discussing'. I notice that the government is the largest employer in the world, and that despite the well known fact that government is full of incompetent self serving politicians (especially the officer corps of the military), that you only laugh at the comedians jokes but don't heed the call for change.
I notice that you spend sooooo much to punish citizens that you don't protect those very citizens you are charged to defend.
I would ask that you open up the constitution, the Bill of Rights and the writings of our founding fathers and gain from the collective wisdom. I would specifically ask that you end the War on Innocents that you call 'The War on Drugs' that has proven to only stuff our prisons, kill innocents and erode the foundations of personal responsibility and vigilance that this country was founded on. End that, and then run a filter through the military... get rid of the bags, and then start acting like a military. Then commit to defending the citizens of this country as well as the very country itself (the combination of the citizens and the Constitution that guarantees that we are citizens... not subjects). Please do this so that we may continue to live the lives we choose, free from fear of either an international terrorist or a domestic governmental terrorist or any other thug and criminal out for personal gain at our expense.
Thank you, American Citizen (by choice not by birth)
I seek not only to follow in the footsteps of the men of old, I seek the things they sought.
And assuming (and hoping) that there were no chemical or biological weapons involved, what about the next skirmish in what many people are calling a War? I hear many people crying WAR, but I wonder how many of us are prepared for the kind of war this would appear to be?
--Damn! We're in a tight spot!
When The World Trade Center was being built there
was a heated controversy over the possibility of
one of the Twin Towers buildings collapsing if it
was hit by a large airliner.
People remembered that the Empire State Building
was twice hit by a plane. once by a small plane
and then by a WW2 vintage bomber.
New Yorkers were promised that the Twin Towers
were designed to survive a crash of a Boeng 747
Airliner into the middle of one side of the
building or a corner.
The virtical steel columns that make up the sides
of the Towers were supposed to be strong enough
to survive the impact of a 747 and also to be
strong enough so that 1/2 of the columns on 2
sides could be destroyed and the Tower would still
remain standing.
Each virtical column is supposed to be tied to the
2 adjacent column by a heavy steel I beam at each
floor. The interior floors could collapse onto
lower floors but the engineerring spaces that are
placed every 10 floors are supposed to halt such
a collapse.
The way that the Twin Towers both collapsed from
the top down with the virtical columns peeling
apart indicates that the contracters and the
World Trade Authority lied about how the Towers
were constructed.
If the World Trade Center Towerrs had been built
as they were supposed to have been they would have
been severely damaged but they would not have
collapsed and 10,000 people would still be alive.
Thanx Doug...
The plume extends about 100 miles along the NJ coastline.
http://www.iceaxe.org/misc/010911WTCPlume.jpg
Get real. The people planning this probably spent some time training together to get it right.
You've "seen some stories." We've all seen some fucking stories on the Internet. I remember, before I ever used the Internet, reading Vernor Vinge's "Fire on the Deep." My favorite quote was "They don't call it the Net of A Million Lies for nothing."
Yes, I think the world will be different after today too. But I don't think the answer (implied in your premise) is preventing people from communicating with each other.
One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
I live in Ontario, which of course shares a border with NY state. I can't give blood normally, and today is no exception (I called and emailed them (http://www.bloodservices.ca/home.html)).
It's because I'm British. Anybody who has spent more than 3 mos in the UK since 1980 cannot give blood due to fears of vCJD. I also know for a fact that the US doesn't have such restrictions as I gave blood 2 years ago whilst living in Colorado.
Oh well, I shall have to think of some other way of helping.
This is not state-based terrorism. This is a small group of fanatics. Your stupid, stupid tactic would make it a war.
Terrorism is cyclical, not a three step process. You are attacked, you get angry, you retaliate. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
Look at Ireland, the Middle East, etc. Do you want our grandchildren to still be fighting the same damn "war"?
We wait. We continue to work. We find the black boxes, the voice recorders, we investigate. Those that did it are on the run. They are in hiding, and think we don't know where they are. Let they sweat a little. When we have the evidence, when the world knows, then we act. Maybe not even violently - put them in front of the same court as Millosevich, make them stand trial.
Above all, we show that we are rational humans, and not dogs that bite because we were bit.
There's already a great deal of R&D going on in small tech (nanotechnology, MEMS, etc) that could prove incredibly useful in anti-terrorist efforts. Given the horrible events today, the government may be spurred to push more money into research in this area. Small Times has an interesting article already today on some of these technologies. -Bob
I see this Attack on the US, as a reaction to American Cultural Imperialism. You don't see anyone attacking Canada like this, because Canada supports diversity of cultures. I can only hope that Ammericans will see how out of sync their virtual reality is with other cultural environments in the rest of the world and the powerless americans. I grew up in South Africa during apartheid, and the whites always felt they were morally justified. Only mounting weight of dead demostrators and freedom fighters woke up the international community and only finally the regimes of political power.
If this is a war, it is a war of culture.
Notice, nobody has asked why someone would give up their life for these actions? Why are they so desperate? Why do these people have no other medium for expresion? Talk about democracy these people are voting with their lives.
The eye-witness (americans) think is this a movie, because that is the only way their culture represents these type of acts. Explosions == Movies. Violence is not real to americans, it is very real to the people who have commited to these acts of terrorfing horror.
Rethink america freedom and democracy, it's a joke. How can a system that claims to be open to the pillars of human desire -- freedom and self expression, have evolved to the point where such extreme action is the only way to critize it.
mark c. brady; http://www.inter-mission.org/
How can we solve/prevent problems like this? Here are some suggestions:
1. Require every airplane to have a secure remote override feature, and some way to alert HQ of aberrant behavior or flight patterns.
2. Anti-aircraft installations in major metropolitan areas? Sounds extreme, but the technology is evolving (in fact, much faster than the aircraft technology to avoid it).
3. Other suggestions?
I propose this day be known as the "911 massacre", which might just have been the intent of the attackers, deciding to attack on 9/11/2001.
Condolences to those who lost loved ones today. When will we learn?
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
This is a call out to all the crackers out there for assistance. Deface as many websites as you can find that are pro-terrorist. Remind the world that THOUSANDS of people -- individuals with parents, spouses, children, friends ... people who love them -- have been KILLED by these fucking cowards. You did this when China was holding our spy-plane; this is millions time worse. I want to see attrition.org have to upgrade their disk space to hold the mirrors of these sites.
... we may get lucky and find that one piece of info that breaks this thing wide open and finds out who orchestrated this travesty.
Portscan the hell out of networks that are on subnets located in the Middle East. Break into them and copy all of the data. Send it from that rooted university box to the CIA, FBI, NSA, whoever
Shit, even a DDOS against these sites would be acceptable. JUST DO SOMETHING! THIS IS YOUR FUCKING COUNTRYMEN THAT HAVE JUST BEEN ATTACKED AND KILLED! Let's show these bastards whose boss.
'Attack On Freedom'
It's being called the worst terrorist attack in history. At the end of the New York rush hour, a carefully planned and well coordinated series of hijacks and kamikaze crashes wiped out America's major landmarks - killing hundreds if not thousands of people.
In what George W Bush called "an attack on freedom" the first target was the city's World Trade Centre. A commercial aircraft was flown straight at one of the towers, setting the huge structure ablaze.
Up in smoke
Then, just a few minutes later, another hijacked passenger plane was deliberately flown into the landmark building's second tower. With both engulfed in flames it didn't take long before first one then the other crashed to the ground.
More than 50,000 people work in the complex. An unknown number of people have been killed, but the figure is expected to reach catastrophic proportions.
Next, The Pentagon, perhaps one of the most potent symbols of American might was also hit by an aircraft. A 60-ft section of the building collapsed.
Warplanes scrambled
Another hijacked passenger aircraft crashed near Pittsburgh.
Fighter aircraft have been scrambled and are patrolling the skies over the US capital in case of further attacks on the capital.
Sky's Washington Correspondent Keith Graves said "There can be no doubt that any aircraft flying over Washington now will be shot down."
A separate fire forced the evacuation of the White House.
Hijack
American Airlines says two of the planes involved were theirs. One, flight 11 from Boston to LA had 81 passengers, nine crew and two pilots on board, the second, a flight from Washington Dulles to LA had 51 passengers, four crew and two pilots on board.
United Airlines says one of its aircraft, flight 175 from Boston to LA, a Boeing 757 has also gone down with 56 passengers, seven crew and two pilots on board.
A second hijacked United flight - number 93 from Newark to San Francisco - is also confirmed crashed. It went down 80 miles south of Pittsburgh.
'We're dying'
A person who answered the phone on the trading floor at interdealer-broker Cantor Fitzgerald, located near the top of the World Trade Center, said: "We're f***ing dying," then hung up. There was screaming and yelling in the background. A follow up call was not answered.
"This has got to be one of the most horrendous terrorist attacks perhaps ever perpetrated," terrorism expert Chris Yates told Sky News.
The Foreign Office has issued a number for worried relatives 020 7008 0000
Last Modified: 18:54 UK, Tuesday September 11, 2001
Not so fast. W has promised to hunt and punish those responsible. That does not mean he's going to do the coward Bill Clinton thing and lob cruise missiles to cover some kind of domestic scandal. No, I expect US agents will hunt down the dirt bags responsible for this, extridite them, prove them guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, and hang them high.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
There's a flight leaving McChord AFB (near Seattle) this PM with blood for NYC. There may be others. The local authorities are calling for donations - anywhere - to fill that flight.
An act of murder? Yes. Apalling? Yes. Horrifying? Yes. Cowardly? Not to anyone who knows what the word means. No matter what atrocity is committed, no matter how senselessly violent, a kamikaze attack is not the work of a coward. Giving your life for a cause you believe in is about as far from cowardly as it is possible to get.
Im not sure how true this is there are a lot of rumors flying around as is to be expected, but I have heard from quite a few people that some angered americans or american supporters have bombed the arab embassy. Another thing i've noticed is that many script kiddies and others have taken to defaceing and DOS'ing sites of whoever they think is to blame
Just a few moments ago WTOP - FM, Washington DC, interviewed a Congressman (sorry, missed his name) and the Congressman confirmed that the PA crash was from a shoot down by US Military.
d =1 87235 indicates that some sort of explosion happened before the plane went down.
Note: info is from a Congressman, could be total BS, ya never know. Might be why WTOP is not running it on their website, but the descriptoin from a witness on the plane in this story:
http://www.wtop.com/news/news-story.jhtml?NewsI
The same radio story reported that the Congressional Leadership has been evacuated to their safe facility.
Flight 77 is confirmed to be the one that hit the Pentagon. A Congressional aide was on the flight and reporting to someone by cell phone about what was going on.
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
from: http://www.myacen.com.au/
The Myacen Network, wishes to send our condolences to the people in America, we have made a few servers that you can listen to events unfold live
213.112.17.26:8000
mille.ath.cx:8000
217.208.77.17:8000
166.90.143.147:23160
213.204.131.71:8000
194.236.120.230:8000
I understand that it takes at least 30 minutes to evacuate the tower if they can use the elevators. It takes about an hour to walk down from one of the top floors if the elevators are not available.
My next door neighbor was in one of the towers this morning when the first plane struck. They began evacuations before the second plane hit. My neighbor was completely out of the building before the collapse and was uninjured.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
...and something to consider.
http://www.thequran.com/flyer/flyer1.html
http://www.thequran.com/flyer/flyer3.html
Also, those of you "pacifists" who claim that further violence (retaliation) would be "too much" death, please understand something. A true pacifist will choose all alternate paths of resolution to a problem until violence is the only answer. After which, the pacifist will use any and all force necessary to permanently subdue their aggressor. Pacifism is not allowing yourself to be used as a punching bag.
I consider myself a pacifist, but I'm concerned that any amount of "reasonable" retaliation will be enough to stop further attacks (in fact, I think it is impossible to stop further attacks). Retaliation will be a political decision, one which will be decided not on public emotion but on the political stability of the world as a whole.
Just heard on NPR that Canada has closed the borders for a while, not sure for how long.
Ya know, sometimes I hate the people in this country. I was just out at a client's place earlier today, and they hadn't heard of the bombing. I told them what was going on, and they turned on the TV for a few minutes, then kinda lost interest. I got the impression they didn't care because nothing exciting was occuring here (rural northeast washington state). I'm almost getting sick to my stomach just sitting here thinking about all the death and destruction.
- This isn't the sig you're looking for. Move along, move along..
If Echelon is everything people are afraid it is, shouldn't this have been picked up. These attacks obviously were not forseen, so I can not belive that Echelon is doing its job if it does exist.
Moderation Totals: Flamebait=2, Troll=1, Redundant=1, Insightful=6, Overrated=1, Underrated=1, Total=12. (not mine)
quoted in Dave Farber's Newsletter
Below is a comment by me.
The designers could never have forseen a terrorist attack, but the should have forseen
an airplace collision.
One happened in 1945 at the Empire State Building
worldtradecenterplanecrash.com is unavailiable on networksolutions.com but the whois record doesn't exist...
worldtradecenternomore.com is available
goodbyeworldtradecenter.com is available
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
I Am Not An American.
Yes I'm French, a people much mocked by Anglo-Saxon folks. But yes, tonight, let me be an American.... I'm shocked, I'm upset, I'm mourning with you. I have friends there whom I'm waiting to hear from, and friends here who are shocked, upset, mourning with you....
I'm an American, tonight. I'm French either.
Maybe, you and your friends and my friends are human beings and those responsible for this aren't?
I don't know, but good luck, and godspeed.
While the US President commits huge sums of money, and breaches solemn international treaty obligations, to develop missile defence,
No one in their right mind would launch a missile attack against the US. Even if they had an accurate 20MT nuke to fire off at NORAD. For the simple reason that doing so pinpoints their exact location, which would then be passed to USAF and/or USN.
the perpetrators were able to use fifty tons of aviation fuel that they didn't even have to pay for.
Nor did they have to pay for the aircraft.
Obviously those kids were listening to his music when they decided to commit these dastardly deeds. With all these kids running around hopped up on ecstacy, it's a wonder this sort of thing doesn't happen everyday.
While we're at it, let's ban all forms of encryption. This internet thing is just a vehicle for the liberal agenda, anyway. Let's put the 10 Commandments back in the schools!!!
So some people complained that Doom, etc, were murder simulators. Everyone missed the fact that Microsoft Flight Simulator, etc, are probably the real murder simulators. A terrorist organization can now train a person to fly a big jet well enough to hit a building. Maybe not taking off and landing, but the easy flying skills are easily attainable.
No pilot, even with a gun at his head, is going to hit the TWC rather than the Hudson river.
This is really, really, scary.
FUCK YOU. The people who did this deserve to die horrible, miserable deaths. You fucking pussy. I'm so glad that you're not an American. No wonder you're a fucking pussy. You fucking douchebag. You're as bad as those fucking terrorists.
Yeah, they will be able to find those.
"No matter what the Western nations do, they will never be popular, because we have principles, like human rights, which we champion, but aren't convenient for dictators and fundamentalists. "
/. and your post are already being called for).
Are you seriously suggesting that the western nations don't fund and support dictators and fundamentalists? That we alway act in the good of democracy and human rights? If we held fast to our principles and refused to prop up murderous regimes and refused to fund state supported genocides then people would not hate us so much.
BTW this attack was most likely organized and carried out by no more then a dozen people. You would have to kill enough arabs to make hitler look like a saint to prevent it from happening again. As long as people would rather die then live under your thumb they will commit suicide attacks. You either have to make peace somehow or commit acts of massive genocide. In the case of Germany the people chose to commit genocide I hope the US can resists the calls for racial cleansing that are sure to follow (and from reading
War is necrophilia.
The american people will cry out for revenge, but you should calm down before striking whoever responsible. Revenging - you must remember - is hard. Traditionally, revenge leads to someone revenging the revenge, unless the revenge is targeted with high political and practical accuracy. Remember, a missil can't tell Bush from e.g. BinLaden. In addition the pressision is not high enough to avoid hitting civilians. If civilians is hit the governmet controlled media in the target country can:
1. condemn the action agains WTC and the Pentagon, thus condemning the attack on their country.
2. using their government controlled media to make the people - even those personally neutral to the US - condemn the US, thus making new terrorist killing more people.
I would like to urge the American people to look for other solutions, silent actions. For instance they can through heavy intelligence - which will be conducted - locate and arrest the people responsible. A trial and conviction would be a much more satisfying and peaceful solution.
Two bonuses will also be given by doing it this way:
1. you are sertain the people responsible are caught, not just presumingly dead.
2. the country housing the terrorist would be put in an - for them - unbeneficial position giving the western countries a good way to excess political pressure on them with a small, but larger than normal effect.
People of america: let the your government know this!!
Look a monkey!
ANOTHER CALL to all you MAD crackaz out there.
TAKE DOWN this raghead site, its the main site for the Taliban terrorist organization, no kidding. They even have Jihad mentioned on their home page.
www.afghanistan-ie.com
203.128.6.31
Initial scans show the server is very vulnerable and may already have been cracked.
OWN this MACHINE!!! Show US your m@d skillz!
Interesting ports on (203.128.6.31):
(The 1502 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed)
Port State Service
21/tcp open ftp
23/tcp open telnet
25/tcp open smtp
53/tcp open domain
79/tcp filtered finger
80/tcp open http
81/tcp open hosts2-ns
110/tcp open pop-3
139/tcp filtered netbios-ssn
143/tcp open imap2
444/tcp open snpp
515/tcp filtered printer
555/tcp filtered dsf
617/tcp open unknown
1524/tcp filtered ingreslock
3306/tcp open mysql
6969/tcp filtered acmsoda
12345/tcp filtered NetBus
12346/tcp filtered NetBus
27665/tcp filtered Trinoo_Master
31337/tcp filtered Elite
Just a moment to say Good Job to the /. crew.
You saw these events as critical, and you posted information we all needed.
also, congrats on the system hanging in, true test of the new code.
God Bless.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Knowing the kind of security surrounding civil aviation, it is highly unlikely that any group could successfully pull off 4+ simultaneous hijackings. How much do you want to bet some "intelligence" agency knew about these hijackings in advance and allowed them to happen in order to make the case for greater funding to combat terrorism, not realising what the outcome of these hijackings would be?
You're using her as bait, Master!
I know this is a bit too late, but could the autopilot be setup to accept a code and then lock all controls and set a standard avoidance course out of main areas and notify the ground of a possible problem onboard the aircraft. This could then be used to alert the ground and authorities as well as stop hyjackers taking over a plane by immobilising the pilot/copilot. This code could be changed for every flight or whatever. I haven't thought it through anymore than this as I still can't believe that people would do this. This sort of thing doesn't get us, the world, anywhere in the big scheme of things and I sincerely hope that the people responsible are found and condemned. Maybe we could use these sort of people on death row as the lab rats that are being tortured in the name of science.
When shit hits the fan get some of these https://youtu.be/pY-GncsZ-UE
Require that all major airlines equip there planes with the ability to destruct before they can do such damage. Also remote destruct should be required as well. As soon as the plane is hijacked is should be considered lost, period. This may seem cold to the passangers on board but flyers know the risks. Think about this thousands of lives could have been saved. If terrorists knew that either the pilot, crew, or ground personal would vaporise the plane instantly as soon as they pull their guns or head to the cockpit then it probably would discourage such behavior.
Watching the news it had a quote on the bottom
Bush Says "Apparent Terror Attack"
Maybe three planes flew into buildings by accident.
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
I've tried calling the Red Cross's national numbers, but they're flooded with calls. Area hospitals here aren't set up to recieve blood donations yet.
I'm sure they'll have information in the paper tomorrow, and my blood will be just as useful then.
And we did end up killing the person responsible. If he had lived in another country we would have bombed him. It doesn't necessarily make anyone feel better, but satisfies some peoples' need for justice.
I don't think it has anything to do with the value of one human life over another in a religious or cultural context. I personally believe that not many people in the United States care at all about people that they have no contact with. I can't honestly pretend that I care about people that don't mean anything to me.
So, Timothy McVeigh, being a possible next-door neighbor, is not someone you want to be scared of. Foreigners in general one can divide out and separate, but if you cannot divide out the "evil" parties, what remains to base your fears upon?
"He may look like an idiot, and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot." - Duck Soup
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654
The problem, of course, is that you cannot control the ban. There are already systems of encryption that convert terrorist messages into harmless looking chats. And encryption is like a weapon in the sense that the natural way to fight it is by using it yourself.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Maybe I'm just nitpicking here, or this posting was not based on anything substantion.
firing Maverick missiles from Apache helicopter gunships
These missles are huge. I don't think an apache can even carry one of them. They are only used on large jets. Hellfires and stingers are the only missles apaches can use.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Why would anyone think to blame the dude who tried to do this in 1995, and again in 1998, and openly states the goal of his organization is to "kill Americans"? Concluding that this as you put it, gun-toting radical Islamic militant, did this is common sense. When the facts come in, that man is going to swing. Hell, if he were ever brought to trial he might just hang for all the other things he's done.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The real condition of the current prosperity of the US is a side-effect of the confluence of history, geography, and culture. Of course the US has interfered with other countries. Of course the US has killed people to further their own aims. But no matter how much they try, Nepal will NEVER NEVER produce a large wheat crop. NEVER. We aren't "oppressing" them, their geography is the limiting factor, and a factor in their poverty. What I have found living in other countries (South America and Africa), is a jealousy of the US. Not a "please let us compete on a even playing field" mentality, but a "roll over and be ashamed of your hard-working culture and give us your money" mentality.
Oppression comes in many forms. I will not be oppressed by a small contigent of people who are ashamed of my country and dole out blanket statements about our evils as if we are the sole source of the world's misery. We are not the sole source, it often comes from within. You come very close to giving approval to these violent acts.
Don't be stupid. Canada is USA's biggest and most loyal ally. We're your largest trading partner and we have been sharing the largest unprotected border (not for long from the looks of it). We've even signed the NAFTA agreement that benefits US corporations more than it does Canadian ones.
Although we may be more a socialist country (welfare, public healthcare, refuguees, etc), we are linked almost in the same manner as the EC members are.
We are genuinely concerned about how the US does IN EVERY WAY since it affects us directly.
Do you know what the biggest fear we have? It's not a terrorist attack. It's a terrorist attack on US soil where the maniac crossed the Canadian border. We spend a lot of time, money, and resources to screen people as well as we can before they cross the US border.
The terrorists could have come from anywhere. They could have been living in the US for years. They could have just arrived from an transatlantic flight.
What about the scientist at Los Alamos who sold secrets to the Chinese? He was a US citizen? Tim McVie? And the latest wave of FBI turncoats?
There's only so much humanly possible to stop these lunatics. We're doing it.
I have a feeling this will trigger a war. And quite frankly I would consider re-enlisting, because tomorrow they could do the same here in Toronto, over in Hamburg, or across the ocean in Porto. The only thing these savages understand is brute force.
My prayers are with the victims and their families.
Good point here:
-----quote-----
This would be a great analogy if it was accurate, but it isn't. Nations cannot operate without infrastructure, but most terrorist organizations can. You're fighting a different animal, and the weapon that's most effective against one can be entirely ineffective against the other. Think of trying to use an elephant gun (good against elephants, naturally) to kill a swarm of bees, and you'll get the idea.
----end quote----
Terrorist organisations generally tend to leech of the resources of nations and their infrastructures. That's what makes them hard to find. But then again, it's hard find a bee's nest. Once found, though, no point in using that elephant gun on the swarm. Elephant guns do wonders to bee hives.
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it. - G.B. Shaw
It's called self deprecating humour, please buy a clue.
- Toby
Afghan Government http://www.afghan-ie.com/
= United%20Arab%20Emirates
Also this site has links to middle eastern news sites http://www.ipl.org/cgi-bin/reading/news.out.pl?co
Hi, I'm George W. Bush, President of the United States and when the going gets tough, I run away.
Laura and Dick can look after Washington.
It's what must be done and going to arrange things.
> You don't like America? I got 2 words, FUCK YOU! We frankly don't give a damn!
And this, exactly, is your problem. Be glad the rest of the world actually does give a damn, not just shrug it off "they had it coming, shit happens".
Michael
Strange how you like using an AMERICAN invention... the Internet.
Strange that the US did not want to get involved in Yugoslavia... blame the Brits for getting us in there.
M.
This is a first, /. is getting slower by the minute. Slashdot is slashdotted!
That is a fallacy, mainly spread by those attempting to instill a sense of fear and awe in nuclear weapons.
The highest casualty count from a single attack was the bombing of Dresden in World War II, with upwards of 450,000 people killed. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are considered more severe due to long term effects of radition, and the limited nature (2 bombs) of the attack.
"He may look like an idiot, and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot." - Duck Soup
There are so many bad comments here, it's not even funny.
1. Israel vs Palestine
Israel was there first and the stupid Arabs took it after Nazi's took the country. Israel is going to win with, or without our help, the more we help them the more WE will be blessed. (Economy has been pretty good scince WWII hasn't it?)
2. Peace?
You can't have peace without Justice. End of subject. There's obviously massive planning in such a well-executed plan, and likely both Arafat, and Afghanastan.
3. Koyoto.
Koyoto is the most stupid idea ever thought up. Make the us lower CO2 but not China (who puts out more than us) Koyoto is NOT liked by other counties, only the super-liberals in some countries, and Chinese (guess why). And second, Global warming isn't an Issue. Things get Colder over time, not Hotter. The thermometers they test with are 200 miles apart, the fact that a swimming pool can be different temperatures 20 feet away doesn't make it look very acurate.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
I love all that anti-terrorist bravado going on.
Lets be clear, the US supports, arms and works closely with terrorists, we just call them different things.
There was articles in German papers a few weeks back how over 400 Albanian terrorists who were
working in Macedonia (FYROM) were encircled by Macedonian troops and how the US swooped down to 'disarm them' which meant they were whisked back to safety in Kosovo, where evidently NATO troops cant seem (or want) to stop armed bandits from roaming a puny parcel of land.
Oh yeah, there were 2 dozen US 'militarty observers' with those 400 rescued...
Yup, we should know pretty well how to deal with terrorists, there are still pictures out there of Madeleine Halfbright and Gen. W.Clark sipping coffee in French bistros with Albanian terrorists who were still wanted by Interpol at the time..
Terrorists are our friends when we need them to do our dirty jobs.
may have an easy time bragging about its use. Those without the means have to use the tools they own.
This directly from the newswire.
CAMBRIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS, Sep 11, 2001 (Newsbytes via COMTEX) -- The 31-year-old co-founder of Akamai Technologies [NASDAQ:AKAM] was aboard one of the hijacked jetliners that crashed into the World Trade Center in New York today. An Akamai news release said Daniel C. Lewin, co-founder, chief technology officer and board member of the company, was killed when the American Airlines jet on a flight from Boston to Los Angeles slammed into one of the towers. Another jetliner, hijacked on a Boston-to-San Francisco flight, plowed into the other WTC tower. Soon both structures crumbled, the result of what government officials say was the work of terrorists. Lewin leaves a wife and two children, Akamai said. By Dick Kelsey Reported by Newsbytes.com, http://www.newsbytes.com Copyright 2001 The Washington Post Company -delrinkenro The Syndicate Newswire
It's obvious - If you want to learn how to fly a modern jet airplane, (say into a building), just get yourself a copy of Flight Simulator. It's quite realistic. The one time I was up in a glider, I knew all the dials and guages, also had the fine motor skills needed to actually fly. I'm quite serious here.
I have heard several reports through work email and other sources that car rental companies are charging up to $1000 per day for cars. Does anyone have any confirmation on this?
Fact One: It took one full hour between the first plane crash into the WTC and the plane crashing into the pentagon.
Fact One.b: NOW the USAF is saying they've got jet's up to shoot down planes that aren't supposed to be where they are (This happens WAY after the plane crashes and the plane grounding)
Possible Conclusion: You can't tell me they couldn't have scrambled a jet to protect the Pentagon. It is the FOOKING PENTAGON! They've probably got radar watching the air space, etc. They let these planes hit where they did. Read on to find how why.
Fact Two: Several former US Secretaries of Defence/State are/were on CNN spouting on about how this is an (I quote) "Act of War" on "innocent civilians." They also are spouting on about how we must retaliate.
Fact Two.b: They didn't crash into a theme park or a mall. They crashed into the WORLD TRADE CENTER (please note the words WORLD and TRADE) and the PENTAGON (read: military installment)
Possible Conclusion: US government wants to go to war. War boosts the economy. They want US citizens to be angry and support this retaliation mentality. SHIT LIKE THIS HAPPENS BECAUSE GOVERNMENTS ONLY KNOW HOW TO HANDLE DIFFERENCES WITH VIOLENCE. We get hit with awful violence, so what should we do? Oh -- I know -- let's kill those responsible. (sigh)
Fact Four: The same people mentioned in Fact Two are spouting on about how this should have never happened. About how we need highly tuned agencies (CIA, NSA, FBI, Military) with (I quote) "sophisticated technology" to prevent these attacks.
Fact Four.b: Just recently the NSA made a big press splash by whining about how little money they had and how poor their technology was. (Please note: nobody believes the NSA)
Possible Conclusion: 1984. Big Brother. Nuff said.
Fact Five: Several wars have been started to give slacking economies a boost.
Fact Six: Billions of dollars will be poured into the US economy to...
- Repair damaged buildings
- Support military action
- Increase security
- Create new office space for those displaced from their current buildings
- Buy new office items (computers, papers, chairs, desks)
Possible Conclusion: OUR GOVERNMENT DID THIS ALL!http://weather.noaa.gov/radar/latest/DS.p20-r/si.k okx.shtml
Producing satire is kind of hopeless because of the literacy rate of the American public. - Frank Zappa
So there are *some* Palestinians (and others) that are celebrating this act. While both the act and the celebration are clearly atrocious, I (as an American) still get frustrated that the average American cannot even fathom why other people hate them. This part - understanding the adversary - is as much a part of peace as it is for them to understand us.
If you lived in a third world country, filled with disease and poverty, and now you are seeing scenes of fat Americans hustling down the street in their expensive suits (hey, that man wastes more money on his tie than I will see all month, or all year), while you are clothed in the same ragged clothes you have been wearing all week, you too might smile at the cheap shot that you got in against David.
I love America as much as any other citizen. But it sickens me that people are too arrogant or ignorant to think that "the other guy" is always at fault, or that the casualties we inflict are always justified. We may be proud of our Democracy and think that hard work will get you anything, but the truth is that 99% of our lives may just be the fact that we were lucky enough to be born into a fortunate situation. No matter how smart or athletic or talented you are, it would probably mean squat if you were born into a different situation.
My only point is that we should save the "bomb those a55holes" talk for the junior high kids who draw warplanes in their notebooks. A long term solution involves each and every American being more aware of our place in the world and how it affects others.
Today, the 11th of September, 2001 is a day of calamity, the greatest disaster that has ever struck the United States. And it is only ironic that the great peril, which had given birth to it was left unnoticed and untreated by most until it was too late.
I am deeply shocked by the inhumanity of this action and its perpetrator. Too great an evil has been allowed to happen. It is time now to stand up and to strike back.
For three decades, has mindless terrorism been striking my country Israel; but I can only weep at the immense scale of the tragedy. It is too late now to solve the problem bloodlessly. But it has to be solved now no matter what is the price.
Fuck you. That is not a real quote from Nostradamus. It was a example of one that the author said would be vague enought to apply to many incidents.
Name me *1* person who would have been a ble to prevent this. God I hope you're not suggesting what I think you are.
I find it sad to have to say this about this tragedy on the US, and have to send my condolences out to all my american friends.
However I must say that this terrorist attack om the states was brought upon themselves by their very invulnerability and their own Ivory tower.
Simply put: People will covet what they don't have and will try to aquire that for themselves. However if they can't find a way to get it they will destroy it when they find it in others.
Peace out
--Rex
Take a left turn at sanity and go three miles past chaos
-
toronto globe and mail
-
CBC: Suspect 747 escorted down in Yukon
I can't get through to the CBC web site for their story...I'm not only unmoved by your mislabeling of the atomic attacks, but I also find that you're wrong. If you're going to count acts between nations in a declared state of war as "mass murder", the undisputed champion is Hitler, with 11 million Russians killed.
Now go away.
Virg
Okay, you obviously don't if the person i was replying to represents the general consensus of other countries. Also, I was syaing we don't give a damn what you think of us. We obviously give a damna bout the rest of the world, cause hey, France in WW2...period. I wont even bring up France in WW1...how about Papua-New Guinea...they don't have anything to thank us for. Wha tdo we get? Made fun of, bad opinions of us, and so on so forth.
Derek Greene
The bombing of the World Trade Center and Pentagon is already being hailed as a tragedy of major proportions, and American citizens will no doubt be expressing shock and disbelief that someone could do such a thing.
As the moralists begin to thunder against terrorism and mourn for the victims, perhaps some thoughts should be spared for some other victims--the victims of Americanism. This country was founded on the extermination and enslavement of millions, and has grown fat off the continuing exploitation and repression of the world's poor. It is not so strange that this should happen, rather that things like this do not happen more often.
There is a kind of rough justice that New York's financial district and the Pentagon should be targets, for they contribute to so much misery in this world. Wall Street, the center of global capitalism, is where traders skim the profits off the poverty of so much of the world. Rhetorical exaggeration? Ask youselves why so many countries where hunger is common grow and export cash crops in order to pay their debts to U.S. banks, and see whether the word "loanshark" comes to mind. Ask yourselves why the countries with the most debt and the most sweatshops are invariably those that adhere to the paternalistic advice of the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, and are likely to have weapons and military training supplied by the Pentagon.
The Pentagon, the heavily-armed attack dog which blithely calls its civilian victims "collateral damage", has never hesitated to massacre civilian populations, usually from a distance and at little risk to its own. You cannot bomb and starve people, whether in Yugoslavia or Iraq, and expect all to be forgiven and forgotten. You cannot arm and train the death squads and dictators from Chile to Indonesia, Peru to El Salvador, Viet Nam to the Congo and expect no repercussions. Somewhere, somehow, some of the many victims of America's imperial arrogance have just found a way to fight back.
Today is September 11th, a day that will be remembered. But September 11th has a significance most Americans aren't aware of. September 11, 1973 was the day the Chilean military overthrew the democratically elected president, Salvador Allende. Thousands were killed and tortured by the military in the aftermath of the coup, and Chile lived under a brutal dictatorship for the next 16 years. Why is this relevant? Because the military coup was instigated and supported by the U.S. C.I.A, under the leadership of then-president Nixon and his henchman Kissinger. Who in America will remember for those victims of state terrorism, in which America bears at least partial responsibility?
Already the local talk radio is taking calls from people who are saying we should "wipe out" the Palestinians. The Palestinians have been robbed of most of their land, they've seen many of their homes and farms destroyed, and their children killed. All of this with the assistance of billions of U.S. dollars and military technology. No doubt many of them feel they have no future. When you help rob someone of their future, what do you expect? That they'd feel bad when their oppressors' best friend gets targetted?
For the victims of these bombings and their families, this must seem like inexplicable insanity. Yet there is a terrible logic here, the logic of the Old Testament: "As ye sow, so shall ye reap". In the calls for veangeance and soul-searching to come, perhaps some Americans will think about their country's global role and struggle for a fundamental change in direction.
This is not meant to justify or condone the terrorist attacks in New York and D.C. in any way. Rather, it is meant to question why there is so little outrage for the victims of the U.S. sanctioned terrorism that goes on every day.
by an American who may have lost a close friend in the WTC bombing
I would love to give blood. I am over 16, weigh more than 110 lbs (of course) but there is one problem: People who have lived in many parts of Europe for more than 6 months are not eligible. The red cross thinks we have mad cow disease or something. A large amount of military families cannot give blood because they have been overseas. Leave it to the red cross to find a way to prevent people from helping in times of crisis.
D/\ Gooberguy
Karma: Meh (Mostly from meh.)
This must be the most talked-about posting on Slashdot. I've been watching the news for 4 hours now, and condolences go out to anyone who knows any of the victims of this horrible act.
Sean
# wrote sig.txt, 23 lines, 31337 chars
only the human species is stupid enough to do something this terrible to members of the same species. i, for one, am embarassed to be human.
From a site that seems to be working well:
World Leaders react -- "The following are reactions from around the world to the disasters at New York's World Trade Centre and the Pentagon."
Related Links -- US Gov't, US Military, NYC, Airlines, and Anti-Terrorism Resources.
Also worth noting that many mid-East leaders of all stripes and colours are denouncing this terrorist act.
Don't paint all the mid-East with one brush. This terrorist attack was the action of a very, very small radical group that is roundly despised by many mid-East civilians.
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
This is the worst attack on America. Ever. The destruction at Pearl Harbor can only begin to compare with the carnage that has taken place in America today. September 11, 2001 is a day that will live on in infamy. It is an unprovoked attack on American soil.
For those who don't seek vengeance, I can only say that you are likely not living in America. There will be a reckoning. Whoever did this, and it's looking like Bin Ladin, will be found an eradicated. Whoever is harboring them will be eradicated. Whoever defends them will be eradicated. War is now inevitable.
Good may eventually come of it, as good did eventually come from Pearl Harbor and WWII. But for the time being, we will be mobilizing, preparing for war. We were shocked. Now we are angry.
And anyone who says that we're going to war because "Bush is crzy enough to start one" as I've heard people say (though haven't looked closely on the forum here) is dead wrong. We will be going because it's the right thing to do. We need, firstly, to show the world that we will not be shaken by this, and to show the world what happens when you fsck with the USA. Any potential president, Bush, Gore, Nader, Bud Brown, Clinton, anyone would be looking for a perpetrator right now with the intent to kill. We can see this.
From a purely political standpoint, the nation is calling for vengeance. Any preisdent who sought re-election for himself or anyone in his party would commit political suicide otherwise.
This is edited slightly for content, mostly for length:
"The United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked. The United States was at Peace with the world. We have been looking towards the maintenacne of world peace. This attack was deliberately planned days or even weeks ago. The attack on our cities has caused damage to civilians and economic centers. Very many America lives have been lost.
The facts, so far, today speak for themselves. The American people have already formed their opinions, and well undertstand the implications to the very life and safety of our nation. The commander in chief has directed our forces in our defense. Always, will our whole nation remember the character of the onslaught against us.
No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the America people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory. We will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost, but we will make certain that this form of treachery shall never again endanger us again. We will gain the inevitable triumph, so help us God.
This was an unprovoked and dastardly attack on the united states."
Franklin D. Roosevelt, December 8, 1941
December 7, 1941. A day that has lived on in infamy. September 11, 2001 will live on in infamy now as well.
Never again. Never.
You might feel diferently if another country walked into your town and bulldozed your home down and kicked you out of town. The Palestinians have been fucked over by Israel, and the US is Israel's biggest backer. We give them all the money and military hardware they're using to kick the Palestinians out of their own homes. If I was Palestinian, I'd be pretty damn pissed too. Most of them probably have little or nothing to lose by attacking the US.
I hear people claim all the time that we should bomb entire countries in the middle east. Their rationale is that if these people won't stand up to their government and make them act properly, then they are just as responsible and deserve to be bombed. We are now victims of that same sort of thinking. We are being held responsible for the actions of our government. We call it terrorism and cowardice. But most Americans aren't even aware of the actions our government carries out in our name around the world. I'm not sure which is the greater tragedy, a terrorist attack such as this, or the level of ignorance and apathy of the American people where our government and multinational corporations are concerned.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
I've never been there but you can get some relevant information from eyewitness acounts.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/627028_asp.htm
MSNBC has an interview with a man working on floor 81 of the second tower hit. They did NOT evacuate after the other building was hit, but others may have. He did however manage to make it off of the 81st floor even after his tower was hit.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/627064_asp.htm
"Another man, Harvey Schonbrun, who works at the brokerage firm Cantor Fitzgerald, had been on the 78th floor of Tower One when the first plane hit"
So we have people around the 80th floor on both towers who survive.
I've heard/read reports of 50,000 workers and 100,000 visitors a day, but an "expert" was quoted on the radio saying only 10,000 would be in each of the towers at 9 AM, and thank God the observation levels were (reportedly)
closed.
With a little over 100 floors that's about 100 people per floor however. Looking at about where the planes seem to have hit and assuming that anyone at those floors and above are dead (which may be pessemistic, but the fireball from the second impact did go straight through the tower, probably destroying the entire floor) I think we're looking at 5-10,000 people dead.
I hope I've been pessemistic, but I'm in fear that I haven't.
I do suspect that the terrorists were stupid for not hitting the towers lower. This would have trapped more people and I think raised the chance of them toppling sidewise. I don't want to think about what it would have been like if both towers had been hit a around floors 30-40 at the same time...
I moved north a few years ago. I am so glad to be living in Canada today instead of the US. We've got our problems, but nothing like the States.
You're damn right.
For as long as I have been familiar with the situation in the Middle East, I have felt a great deal of sympathy for the Palistinian people and their plight, particularilly those families living in exile camps near Israel, and those living within Israel itself. I've always been of the opinion that Israli forces were frequently going too far and behaving in a brutal and thuggish matter. My heart went out to many of these people, and I was glad to see that many of them were building good lives for themselves in Eurpoe and America.
The sight of Palestinians celebrating in the streets, like they just won the fucking Superbowl or something... by throat fills with bile at the thought of it. There were probably about 50,000 innocent people in that building. I can't remember the last time I looked at the image of a living human being and hated them more. It was one of the most disgusting displays I've ever seen... an oppressed people, no strangers to human tragidy, jumping around like fucking monkeys cheering about the deaths of thousands of innocent people.
Whoever did this, and whoever helped them... be assured that you have awoken a sleeping giant for the first time in 60 years. You are about to be fucking erased.
As for your point about missile defense... I think this underscores the importance of spending on intellegence, conventional forces, AND missile defense.
Missile defence may seem expensive now (even though it is a pittance compared to what we spend to fight terrorism), but one thing that we have always observed about technology is that it gets cheaper and better the more it is used. In the long run, missile defense may prove to be a net cost savings, because even with an SDI system that is only 10% effective, we could eventually retain second-strike capability with a much smaller arsonal of missiles.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
I am certain that there are several hundred thousand mothers in Iraq who would love that statement. I find it rather unfortunate that such sentiments still exist: the "civilized" nature of our (the US) empire has included the support of dictators, genocide, crimes against our own people and against humanity itself, and most recently the subjugation (through economic means) of most of the rest of the world.
We have to take some rezponsbility here. We are responsible for the actions of our government, and, to a lesser extent, the actions of those corporations in which we have some influence. We have eternally permitted and often fostered the existence of anti-US sentiment. We helped to forge the sword that strikes us (Saddam used arms that were mostly givent ot him by the US military, for a physical example. Not really what Im talking about. )
So, what should we do? Barring genocide, the only solution is to make the US a just place, and then spread the ideals of justice and freedom to the rest of the world. The alternative may be extinction. Dont beleieve me? Theink of the tools of the terrorists of the future. Think engineered viruses. Think nanotech. We WILL see theses things in our lifetime. Unless we are all more or less happy--or, barring that, not starving to death in a wasteland created by short-term thinking and greed--Terrorism will never go away. Never. Desperation itself is our foe.
The truth is out there - we'll let it back in after it sobers up a bit. -The Cube
There are legitimate uses of facial recognition software. One of them is securing an area where the people who should be allowed in are a small number, and it is reasonable to require everyone to identify themselves.
If it's not already reasonable to require everyone to identify themselves, then it's not right to use facial recognition software.
If you need to present a passport, then it's reasonable to say that you are identifying yourself. If you need to present an employee id badge, likewise. Walking down the street is a totally different circumstance.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Blue Dress, Embarassment, Cruise Missile, Aspirin Factory, Distraction.
What Comes Around, Goes Around. Sort Of.
Bill, Watching Through Eyes Addled By The Most Expensive Designer Drugs And Designer Whores, Thinks: "Got Out Just In Time."
668: Neighbour of the Beast
CBC News (Canada) is reporting that international flights to ports in the USA have been diverted to:
Halifax (Serving East Coast)
Toronto (East Coast and North)
Vancouver (Servinge West Coast: SanFran, Seattle, LA, etc.)
Whitehorse, Yukon Territioy (Serving Alaska, North)
I understand that there are extreem delays, in the air, (wating for landing clearence) on the tarmacs and within the airports (Searches, Immigration/Customs).
Emergency locations such as schools and halls will be housing passangers (reported in halifax, presumably elsewhere).
I do not have contact numbers, perhaps call your local news media, or airline office, etc.
>major parts of European cities, Britain in particular, are being shut down
Erm, only a few small parts of London were evacuated.
http://squeegie.thewebsiteco.com/logic/
He didn't say anything. FDR was dead by then.
The bombadier of the Enola Gay supposedly said "My God, what have we done."
I boarded a flight at 7pm last night in JFK. At the time of course, security was not an important issue in my mind, yet I noticed something rather surprising as I went to my boarding gate. After checking in, my aunt and uncle decided to join me as far as they could come before I got on the plane. We were all very surprised when the three of us found they were able to come with me *right up to the boarding gate itself*. There was no control of my passport and ticket, no barriers or checkpoints to make sure the person getting on the plane was the same person that checked in. I literally could have given my aunt or uncle my ticket and they could have boarded the plane in my place.
Now can anybody explain to me exactly how the hell anyone can find out who is responsible for these atrocities when we can't even be sure who boarded the planes?
jungle is massive
Fuck it.
If we can't resolve the Middle East issue without doing this kind of shit, and the inevitable counter attack that follows, and the inevitable Russian-China-US conflict, let's just get it over with already and nuke the fucking planet (ie, hit the proverbial reset button). Let the cockroaches take over the planet. Let them take a few million years to evolve into some higher order intelligence.
When they do, I hope they're smarter than us and don't start getting into thinking:
1) God wants us to take over someone else's land
2) God wants me to commit suicide and blow up innocent civilians
3) God wants us to eradicate _______ (fill in your favorite hate group here, Jews, Arabs, Blacks, etc)
4) You killed my brother, so I'm going to kill you, and your brother is going to kill my uncle, and his nephew is going to kill your sister, and her husband is going to kill my neighbor, and on and fucking on and on and on
Answer me one fucking question. How is it that religion, which professes love and peace, has brought us nothing but conflict since the first two religions appeared on the planet? If there is a God, he should come down RIGHT THE FUCK NOW, and straighten this shit out. ALL people who profess that they represent God should be cleaned out by Him right now
There is a report on the CBC website that Canadian Fighters have forced down two Korean aircraft in Whitehorse in the Yukon. It is believed that at least one of the jets was hijacked. It is currently surrounded by RCMP and the local Military from what I understand.
Here is the article since the site is hard to reach at the moment:
Suspect 747 escorted down in Yukon
WebPosted Tue Sep 11 15:44:33 2001
TORONTO - Schools and government offices in Whitehorse, Yukon were evacuated Tuesday as jet fighters escorted two commercial airliners to unscheduled landings, after aviation authorities suspected one of the aircraft may have been hijacked.
One of the airliners is a Korean Airlines 747, the other an unknown 747. Both landed at Whitehorse airport. The jet fighters continue to circle over Whitehorse.
Peter Novak of CBC Radio in Whitehorse told CBC News Online that aviation authorities said one of the aircraft may have been hijacked. Novak said highways in and out of town may have been closed, and a bomb squad was at the airport.
The identified Korean aircraft is believed to have been low on fuel and was redirected to Whitehorse.
Canadian transportation officials have also shut down all airports in Canada indefinitely as U.S.-bound international flights arrive on Canadian runways.
All domestic and international flights have been grounded as a precautionary measure after a series of attacks on high-profile targets in the United States.
Transportation Minister David Collenette says Canada is taking security very seriously and will be carefully monitoring the situation.
Prime Minister Jean Chretien has condemned what he called a "cowardly attack" south of the border and pledged full assistance to the U.S. He assured Canadians to remain calm, noting that the government was increasing security.
Canada's Department of Foreign Affairs has issued a phone number for anyone worried about friends or family in the New York area. Spokesperson Marie Lilkoff says Canadians can call 1-800-387-3124 for information.
U.S. flights diverted to Canada
The United States Federal Aviation Authority had earlier ordered all international flights to the United States to be diverted to Canada.
Airports throughout Atlantic Canada are beginning to receive a large influx of flights. Moncton, N.B., and St. John's, Nfld., expect up to 25 diverted planes, and CFB Goose Bay in Labrador expects close to 60 unscheduled landings.
Halifax airport says they currently have 23 planes on the ground and expect 27 more. The RCMP will search all of the passengers' luggage and they will be transported to large sports facilities in the city for the night. All the hotels in Halifax are full.
Passengers arriving in St. John's will be put up in hotels, conference centres and private homes. Many Toronto residents are also offering their homes to travellers stranded at Pearson Airport.
"All Canadian airspace has been closed other than for inbound overseas flights," said Calgary Airport Authority spokesperson Mike Cunnington.
Effects across Canada
All Canadian border traffic to New York state is limited. Border guards are on high alert and inspecting all vehicles, said Serge Charette, national president for the customs union. He says travellers with a valid reason to be in either country will be allowed through.
The Chief of Maritime staff in Halifax has ordered a lock-down and has posted guards at the gates the navy dockyards and the Shearwater air base.
The rocket-proof gates of the U.S. Embassy in Ottawa were surrounded by police cruisers and plain-clothes officers. Public Affairs officer Buck Shenkman says security will increase, but the embassy will remain open.
The Canadian Blood Services is urging people to contact their local donor branch in a cross-country effort for blood donations to ship to emergency centres in the U.S.
In Ontario, Premier Mike Harris offered his province's full support to the U.S. government, including medical support.
Many office complexes in Toronto allowed their employees to leave work as a precaution, jamming subways and the downtown train station. The CN Tower has also been shut down.
The CN tower belongs to the World Federation of Tall Towers, along with the World Trade Centre and the two work together frequently.
"Quite a few of CN Tower staff work with World Trade Center staff. There was a lot of back and forth travel in the last month. We both belong to the same industry association and this tragedy has hit us personally," commented Bud Purves, President and GM of the CN Tower.
Written by CBC News Online staff
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb."
"The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
Just a note by me God = Money
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" , "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
- Nostradamus 1654
Just think about this
Matteo 24:6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet.
Matteo 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places:
Matteo 24:8 all this is but the beginning of the birth-pangs.
Matteo 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation, and put you to death; and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.
Matteo 24:10 And then many will fall away, and betray one another, and hate one another.
Matteo 24:11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
Matteo 24:12 And because wickedness is multiplied, most men's love will grow cold.
Matteo 24:13 But he who endures to the end will be saved.
Matteo 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.
Hi,
In the movie Wargames they talked about the DEFCON (1 = war, 5 = piece). Is this still used? Any guess about the current DEFCON status?
I wouldn't put it past him, to be honest. He'll want to be seen to be strong and in control. I just hope he doesn't take it too far. Worse than Pearl Harbour? If Pearl Harbour started the most catastrophic war in history, imagine what this could do if it gets out of hand...
I rather think the end result of this will be a zero tolerance policy for terrorists. They will not be able to pop their little fucking heads up to talk about their "message" anymore without fear of getting immediately capped.
One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
I agree with you that there's almost no chance this was Athiests...however, simply because an individual has no religeous belief does not mean that they are a completely rational human being...or rational at all for that matter. I have met plenty of nutcases from EVERY religeous background...including people with no religeous background.
The religeous aren't the only ones with strong beliefs...however...doesn't mean we all can't play alot nicer than this.
there will inevitably be enough 'colateral damage' to radicalise a whole new population of people
Not if we kill them all.
But understandably everyone is very edgy...
I'm close to Vancouver Intl. Just heard a very noisy military aircraft fly by.
You're using her as bait, Master!
http://thewhir.com/marketwatch/raid910.cfm
excuse me if this was already discussed, but wasn't InfoCom raided last week for illegal activities (involving muslim oriented web sites)?
did anyone catch what went on there? maybe fed somehow caught on to unusual amt of encrypted traffic going thru their servers, but couldn't figure it out.
Also, I don't recall any other /. series or stories (3 in all so far) receiving as great as attention as they have today. 3685 comments have been posted so far. I think that's a record.
It was a monument to men - men who loved life, and chose to create. Men who, with a strong back and stronger mind, chose to create something noble.
It was a monument to those men, in that it was a living, useful building - not dead, pointless marble. It was a monument to those people who believed in life.
It is still a monument.
It is now a monument to "men" - men who hate life, hate nobility, hate those who are good - because they're good.
It is a monument to those who try and hide their hatred of everything noble and true, by shoving it into some "greater good", be it the "greater good" of the "race", "proletariat", "people", "believers", "nation", and choose not to see that there are only men - precious, irreplacable, individual men, too precious to sacrifice to a fiction.
I dug these out of the google cache;
for example.
My guess is the days & hours will be extended. Note: these are only
Red Cross blood donor sites. Practically every hospital
can also take blood donations. Latest I heard was
red cross asking people not to dial in, so drive to your nearest site or listen on TV for a blood drive near you.
Repeat: these are only Red Cross blood donor sites. Practically
every hospital can also take blood donations.
Boston Donor Center
25 Stuart Street, 02116
(617) 556-2200
Hours:
Mondays: 11:00 a.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Tuesdays - Thursdays: 9:00 a.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Fridays: 8:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.
One Saturday per month: 8:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m
Braintree Donor Center
179 Forbes Road, 02184
(781) 794-1800
Hours:
Monday - Wednesday: 12:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.
Thursday and Friday: 8:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.
Saturday: 6:30 a.m. - 2:00 p.m.
Every other Sunday: 10:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m.
Dedham Donor Center
Administrative Headquarters
Donor Center
180 Rustcraft Road, Suite 115, Dedham, MA 02026
(781) 461-2000 or toll free 1-800-GIVE-LIFE
Administrative Hours:
Monday - Friday: 9:00 am - 5:00 pm
Donor Hours
Tuesday and Thursday: 1:00 pm to 8:00 pm
Saturday: 8:00 am to 3:00 pm
Middleboro DonorCenter
448 W. Grove St., 02346
(508) 946-1300
Hours:
Monday and Tuesday: 1:00 p.m. - 9:00 p.m.
Wednesday and Thursday: 12:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.
Friday and Saturday: 7:00 a.m. - 3 p.m.
Every other Sunday: 10:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m.
Peabody Donor Center
McCarthy House
85 Lowell Street, 01960
(978) 532-0600 or toll free 1-800-GIVE-LIFE
Blood Donor Hours
Tuesday & Thursdays: 1 pm - 8 pm Saturdays: 8 am - 3
pm
Springfield Donor Center
3500 Main Street, 01107-1117
413-785-0901 or toll free 1-800-462-2229
(Massachusetts only)
Administrative Hours:
Monday - Friday: 8:00 am to 5:00 pm
Pheresis Donor Hours:
Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday: 12:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.
Friday and Saturday: 7:30 a.m. to 3:30 p.m.
Whole Blood Donor Hours:
Tuesday and Thursday: 12:30 to 7:30 pm
Central Massachusetts Donor Center
290 Park Avenue
Worcester, MA 01609
(508) 791-7444 or toll free 1-800-462-4101
Administrative Hours:
Monday - Friday: 8:00 am to 5:00 pm
Pheresis Donor Hours:
Monday, Friday and Saturday: 7:30 am to 3:30 pm
Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday: 12:00 noon to 8:00 p.m.
Whole Blood Donor Hours:
Tuesday and Thursday: 1:00 pm to 8:00 pm
Saturday: 8:00 am to 3:00 pm
I see many highly moderated posts here saying one of two things either restraint is necessary in the face of this tragedy or that we in the US brought this upon ourselves. The first while a worthy sentiment is naive beyond imagining the other is foolish beyond belief. Anyone who thinks that there is any possibility restraint for this unprovoked massacre cleary does not appreciate the scale of what has occured. In all likelyhood thousands are now dead, this goes beyond terrorism, this is a declaration of war.
If this does turn out to have been a product of terrorism from the middle east, something which can definately not be assumed, those who are now dancing in the streets of Palestine or think that we somehow deserved this are going to reap a harvest of destruction that no one is going to be able to look upon without sorrow. This is now inevitable.
If this is terrorism out of the middle east many have stated that retaliation is foolish as we cannot be sure of the terrorist group who did it. Once again you fail to appreciate the scope of this action. We may not know exactly who did it but the finger beyond the trigger is obvious. Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan revel in their support of these terrorists. We may not know exactly who did this action, but we know enough.
Scytle
Corollary: You act like a terrorist you ARE a terrorist. There are plenty of Afghani people who are every bit as innocent as an accounting secretary temp on the 43rd floor.
I sincerely hope that this event will cause some people to realize that violence begets nothing but violence, and that pacifism is the only moral choice.
As for terrorism, what must it feel like to have americans pouring napalm on your children, or to be denied AIDS medicine because the WIPO is backed by the US military, or not be able to feed your family because you cannot resow a crop of seeds because they are patented.
Wake up.
Please limit your comments to the following topics:
Why Windows XP is ultimately responsible for this tragedy
How we can use Linux to ensure that this never happens again.
I'd also like to point out that in 1600+ messages no one has managed to incorporate a beowulf cluster joke into their posts. I'm very disappointed in all of you.
Headline: "Palestinian group says responsible for WTC attack..." appears to be a link to the Jerusalem Post, but it's not responding.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
They've been warning us with those "feel left in" ads for months now. There were no hijackers. They siezed control of the planes with the same secret voodoo technology with which they've made all their porn pages disappear. Contacted for comment, the head of Yahoo! opined, "Shut up you moron. That's a terrible joke."
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
6 hours after the attack and our President is still hiding under his bed.
Immediately after the attack New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani was at the scene.
Immediately after the attack Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld was on the scene.
Immediately after the attack our President was under the bed -
he should have showed enough backbone to override the secret service and gone directly
to Washington DC.
Nobody attacks Canada because there's nothing TO Canada. What is Canadian culture? What does Canada do for the world? Certainly not act as it's economic engine. There's no criticism of American culture at work here. This is obviously one of just plain terrorism. If this was an attack against cultural imperialism they would have attacked Hollywood or Madison Avenue (advertising district in NYC). No, this is just attention getting on the part of malcontents.
No. this post is not flamebait. this post is a flame. the first post, which this one is a response to, is flamebait, which drew the flame.
you can't read.
It is my country and i preach peace. Not the peace of cowardice, but the peace of justice. By all means, find those directly responsible for the planning and execution of the attack and give them their day in court - a real and impartial trial based not on bloodlust, but on evidence.
Do not lash out blindly and unjustly at a nation, race or religion as though every individual member is equally responsible for the actions of an extremist minority.
One of the aims of terrorism is to provoke an unjustified response. It spreads sympathy for the terrorists and makes their act seem justified. Let us not give them that satisfaction.
Nothing can justify this attack, nor can this attack justify a response of the same scale from us.
We must be more vigilant in our own defense. We must make greater efforts to treat the other citizens of the world as equals, not servants. We must remain true to our ideals in deed as well as word.
September 11, 2001 will be remembered in history, but let us remember it as the darkness before the dawn, not as a step on the path of destruction.
"When we have an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, it leaves America toothless and blind"
"Man must evolve for all human conflict a method which rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation. The foundation of such a method is love."
~ Martin Luther King Jr.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Bush clearly showed why this was inevitable in some form.
He called the people who committed this crime cowards. People who commit suicide attacks are not cowards, they are
impossible to stop only because they are not cowards. When the US sits 10.000 miles away pushes a button and sends of a
cruse missile that hits poor countries they are the coward once. But most of all they are irresponsible because the tragedy
the American people has to endure this day is the product of 60 years of irresponsible foreign policy.
The US leaders should have learned form vietnam that you can not have a aggressive foreign policy whit out casualtys.
you can never build a army large enough to protect you, the only true protection is to have no enemy
my condolences go out to all the victims, their friends and families.
has been talking about how terrorism is "the new evil". Is it really? I thought we'd had this kind of "terrorism" for centuries, only we called it war. During WW2, each side killed millions of civilians through bombing campaigns, simply because they disagreed with the German/Allied political system. I realise that that wasn't during peace time, but surely it's still the same thing? And the Americans + USSR seemed quite ready to press the Big Red Button at any moment during the Cold War, nomatter how large the civilian casualties were.
As I understand it, the Nostradamus quote was that the "new city in the new wold" would be destroyed by "the middle eastern prince" in the year 2000. Saw it on a PBS special about Nostradamus.
Take it or leave it.
I have been to the top of the WTC and have enjoyed an incredible meal with my wife from this restaurant. The view was incredible.
http://www.windowsontheworld.com/
That's life I guess. I didn't write that to be inflammatory. What happened in NY is very unfortunate*, and I hope no more unnecessary deaths come from what happened after the fact.
(*This is not a tragedy. A tragedy is a play or story in which the protagonist undoes himself with his own flaws. A whole lot of people dying at once is mass misfortune.)
People say "this isn't funny"; and I'm very sorry to say that's bullpucky. It may not be funny to the person reading it because they're in a sensitive state, but everything is funny to someone. This happened to amuse me, and a few people agreed. To the rest of you: Blah.
Am I the only one who heard Roxette to sing "I'm gonna get blitzed for some sex"?
A humanist might. Not that killing innocent people for revenge would be remotely compatable with humanism, of course. ;)
-= rei =-
"Oh, goodness. Look at my wrist, I have to go." "But what about your clothes?" "I don't love these."
I would like to know how this subject is offtopic. For the past 3 articles Taco griped how hard it was to get reliable news feeds on this tragedy.
/. moderation is broke because moderators are broke.
Do you know the kind of security surrounding civil aviation?? I was a former airline employee...I have seen firsthand the security at our airports. Domestic flights were never considered as big a threat as international flights.
Possibility of 4 hijackings well planned is good.
http://www.montereyca.com/rc/business/docs/1002969 9.htm
I can't help but think of the similarities here. The United States has been trying to capture bin Laden for years (assuming he is behind this, as current evidence seems to suggest), but has been unable to. In fact, intelligence information on bin Laden is a total void, no one knows much about his organization at all, "No nation has successfully penetrated the organization".
Reports suggest that there have been hints that this attack was coming for as long as two months, and I personally find it hard to believe that an attack of this scale was orchestrated without any hint of it coming to the attention of US Intelligence agents. Also, the threat has been made and has been public knowledge for as long as two months:
The facts point to prior knowledge of today's events being in existance.
So why would the US government not do anything about it? Perhaps they actually want to capture bin Laden so badly, that they were willing to let the attacks happen, so that they could be provided with an excuse to launch an attack on the scale of war. We are currently at Defcon Delta, only a step away from war. Perhaps they didn't think the attacks would be as horrible as they actually were, and assumed that the causualties would be minimal and worth the gains, namely the ability to attack bin Laden.
Would you put this past our government? I know I wouldn't, I actually believe they've done it in the past.
All circuits busy.
No weapons were involved.
... You can't spot a black belt in karate with x-rays
2 to 3 people for each flight, but most likely 2. Most likely checked in with false ids to make it harder to trace their origins. Probably also had bought tickets at different times, and for different part of the plane. One of the terrorists, or possible all of them, in case any of them were hurt or killed during the operation, have received basic pilot training, just enough to steer it at target.
Smuggling in firearms would have been too risky. But there are 1000's of ways to kill a person without the use of firearms. Piece of string, poison, martial arts techniques
It appears that they are trying to hide their identities, so the whole operation might have been done in silence, to avoid any conversation being stored on the flight recording box.
They might even have worn masks or makeup during checkin to make it harder to identofy them from airport securoty tapes.
-- Another senseless waste of fine bytes.
Well, IANAP (I am not a pilot) but how hard could it really be? They weren't concerned with taking off or landing, and they could have had the regular pilots fly them to the general vicinity of the target. Then they kill the pilot, and all they have to do is steer the plane into the building. How hard could it be? A few days of flight sim training?
Of course, I'm totally talking out my ass.. Any pilots out there have an opinion on this?
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
The terrorists would just start killing passengers and crew one by one until the pilot(s) opened the door. Making the cockpit completely self-sufficient would cost far, far too much (it'd need a bathroom, etc) so there would be no way to lock the pilot into the cockpit so they could only be let out once they land again.
marotti.com
By best estimates so far 10k+ dead, that equals or beats some countries. They wanted terror, they won't get it. They get our anger, which will be far more destructive and deadly. Revenge is a dish best served cold. I can wait a bit. Anyone else?
Kewl, especially if they find out that it were some stupid Amerikans which are against the government planned this.
Would be a historic episode.
The US bombing the US...
The thing is, that there are enough idiot's capable of doing things like this inside the US.
For all who blame other religions think of the cristian holy crusades! How many people were killed in the past in the name of our god?
--
Karma 50, and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt.
Um....What crack pipe were you smoking when your wrote this? It seems to have completely disconnected you from reality.
I'm not saying the US is perfect in it's dealings with other nations, but NOTHING can justify this. This violence is very real to all Americans, and that fact that you would suggest otherwise tells me you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. You've obviously never been affiliated with a country that has this massive an attack against it. Pearl Harbor was bad, and this is worse.
The people who have committed these violent acts of terror are cowards who refuse to fight for themselves. Anyone can die, it takes real people to live and fight for their cause. America is criticised by people and nations all the time (many people on slashdot do so daily), so to say these people had to resort to this sort of violence is stupid. In fact, since no one has taken credit for it, they can't be making much of a statement now can they? And when did killing tens of thousands of people help anyone's cause in ANY way? The answer is it doesn't. These people deserve no sympathy.
Try thinking a little before you post next time. Your post is just offensive jibberish.
Khyron
A co-worker recieved a call from a friend at American Airlines (he works at the airline's call center) and apparently there was a call from a flight attendant reporting that the hi-jackers where of arabic origin and that 2 flight attendants and a passenger (trying to put up a struggle) was killed with a knife.
A key was taken from one of the flight attendants and they entered the cabin and killed the pilots.
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
It's good to see there are still some clear-thinking people left. More violence is not an effective solution to this kind of problem.
-------
"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
Well, the USA got what it deserved... They believed that they are above other people and that their army and missile defences can protect them. They lived in a ignorance of what really happened in the rest of the world. Little countries can be a big problem of stomped on enough. Hopefully USA understand that they are not alone on the earth. They could try some more humanitary tactics before firing tons of missiles against anything that remotely looks like a terrorist... I truly hope that Bush WILL NOT respond with violence, if he does, he is not any better than the terrorists who did this...and hopefully Americans will understand that they are not the only superpower in the world... and before the next few thousand people lose their lives.
(Sorry for the bad language, i'm not a native english speaker)
someone sent me these links:
This site will register people who are safe:
http://do.millennium.berkeley.edu/
You can query this site to search for people:
http://do.millennium.berkeley.edu/find.php
So hats off to Canada, eh?
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Funny, I always thought God was Britney Spears' asshole.
Shows how much I know...
All of the people that "worked" on the buildings were Tyler's people, so they all knew about it and were elsewhere when the buildings went down.
So it's 0 lives lost in the buildings being destroyed in "Fight Club" (not counting other deaths in the movie).
~Moller
See the story here:2 00 10911_3_meno.shtml
http://www.middleeastwire.com/newswire/stories/
I don't know what's up with this, how many other stories like this are going around? Would this lead to a war with Japan?
-Mr-Pope
"The only way to learn a new programming language is by writing programs in it." - Brian Kernighan
For Canadians worried about relatives in NYC.
1-800-387-3124
I hope you're not pretending to be evil while secretly being good. That would be dishonest.
Liberal 'everybody is a victim and not responsible for their actions' crap. Terroism doesn't come from injustice, it comes from misguided hatred and ignorance. They were likely manipulated by their psychotic leader who they worship as an idol.
Vermifax
Logout
Read "Airframe" by Michael Crichton. Then you know how limited the "black boxes" really are.
Time to dust off my old copy of Gang of Four's "Solid Gold" now. A forgotten gem, that record.
Guns don't kill people - bullets do!
You're a hater. You no better than the people who hijacked those planes. Deal with it.
I see somebody's watched a little too much slickly-packaged network news. Have a little respect.
In a recent press event, the reclusive leader of the DMCA mediaforce, along with Metallica and Charlie Pride, have formally claimed responsibility for todays attacks. They claim that their intelligence detected a high concentration of illegal file sharing taking place in several US office buildings and claimed to have taken appropriate action to suspend such activities. They added that Sony's armored division will be occupying several additional locations later today.
Well, in order to actually beat Japan soundly, win the war, and stop the Pacific bickering over land issues, it was estimated it would take over 200,000 US soldiers (mostly under the age of 25) to take Japan by conventional methods. Dropping two nukes (it would have only been one if their leader hadn't been so stubborn) was more humane. Besides, the leaders of a country are directly responsible for the citizens in their charge, to God and to humanity, so when citizens die from moronic decisions (like reducing our defense budget - thanks, Clinton!), then yes, we will reap the consequences in the here and now. But guess who gets to bear the burden of 125,000 dead in Japan forevermore? The Japanese leader at the time does.
Actually, I'd be willing to bet that if the US withdrew from the Middle East, it wouldn't be Israel that would soon be gone. Without the US to count on, Israel would hardly be likely to wait to be annihilated by their neighbors. Therefore, I think it highly likely that some of their neighbors would soon cease to exist. Permanently.
that's fucked up dude.
you need to check yourself
This from:
http://www.cnn.com/TECH/
Daniel Lewin, co-founder and chief technology officer (CTO) at Akamai Technologies Inc., is said by his company to have died Tuesday as a passenger aboard American Airlines Flight 11. The Boeing 767, originally bound for Los Angeles from Boston, crashed into the World Trade Center in New York and became the first of two airliners to slam into the 110-story structure, opening an apparently coordinated terrorist attack.
Yes, and there's another passage that is about the same thing. Its a little vague but it seems relavant.
Those with heads covered with filthy rags
will scream in terror before they die slowly
camels will not be ridden again
in the stinking land of the animals
Nostradamus, 1658
"/. was not made for this sort of immature crap."
Are we talking about the same Slashdot?
man this site is offline too:
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=world+trade+ce
you first =)
I can say this because I still have windows. If it weren't for a piece of my apartment building, I could see the State Department complex. It's still there, and dead silent...has been all day, save for the evacuation. Trust me, if anything went down at the State Department, I would have known in a hurry.
"These people look deep within my soul and assign me a number based on the order in which I joined" --Homer re:
What a fucking moron! Are you a skinhead? If a black man shot the President, would you go around beating up all other men of color?
Listen as*wipe, the wrapping on someone's head signifies their religeous belief. It has nothing to do with their politics.
Millions of US citizens have skin that is not white. Should we persecute everyone who isn't a WASP?
I'm not for censorship, but you are pushing the rights and limits of free speech while showcasing your ignorance and cowardice, Anonymous Coward!
I will miss the incredible views and great people that worked in this fine restaurant. Check out this link for some archived shots of what you could see from the top of the WTC.
http://www.windowsontheworld.com
"Those with heads covered with filthy rags
will scream in terror before they die slowly
camels will not be ridden again
in the stinking land of the swarthy oil pigs"
Nostradamus, 1658
Just to clarify, the president in question was dead by the end of that war and his successor, Harry Truman, authorized the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
Apparently you don't know your history that well. It is commonly known and recogniced that the atomic bombs were dropped in a very late stage of the WWII. Many agree that Japan was about to surrender anyway. You can easily find statements by high generals and historians (mostly americans) that agree that dropping the nukes was entirely unnecessary, just by browsing the Internet.
"fuck Allah." Rather it must have been someone with some sense in him.
In the city of God there will be a great thunder, two brothers torn apart by chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb", "The third big war begin when the big city is burnning" --Nostradamus 1654
weird huh
The most famous example was the El al boing 747 that crashed almost 10 years ago into a 12 story or so. Notably both the FDR and the CVR were recovered (Flight data recorder and Cockpit voice recorder for non-spotters)
This aircraft collided nearly vertically on the building and leveled it to a 6ft pile of rubble.
I believe there is a definate possibility that ONE of the recorders in all 2 flights hitting the WTC can be recovered.
I see, so it doesn't matter that people died as long as the blame is placed on the right person. I'll have to remember that and ensure that I live some place far away from anyone considered responsible for something, so that people won't bomb near me cause they can't blame it on anyone.
A couple of days ago I heard a report about a Palistinian village. Israel had suspected that terrorists were there, so Israeli tanks surrounded the village, bombarded it, and left. It was a small report, almost an aside to the main news, which was lots of talk about the U.S. economy, and how not EVERYONE had a job.
I kept thinking about that village. I wondered what it would feel like, to feel afraid for your life, to not know where they might strike next.
Now I know. Today at work I kept looking out the window, reassured to see the un-marred Houston skyline. I thought of the many possible stategic sites that could be hit in Houston, of refineries that could spew poisens for days, of skyscrapers here full of people.
And I thought of that Palistinian village. They've been living with this kind of terror for months, even years.
This attack did not occur in a vacuum. Certainly those responsible committed a horrible act. But responding with another horrible act wouldn't help. Do we blow up Afghanni families, just in case it was Osama Bin Laden? Do we push the Israelis to attack large Palistinian areas, only to find it was another Timothy McVey?
Regardless of whether one agrees with the current administrations foreign policies, it would be reasonable to recognize a very real arrogance in the dispensation of those policies. The United States acts like it is the invulnerable master, the king of the hill, casting justice and consensus aside. Just this week the US refused to participate in a UN conference on racism. We do anything we want, and dare anyone to try and do anything about it.
Someone did. It would only make things worse to react in an agressive military fashion. Certainly justice must be served, but it should be measured, accurate and appropriate.
America is a special place, luckier than most humans have ever seen. We spend most of our time planning parties and designing toys. When something like this happens we should step back, look at the BIG picture, and reflect - what have we done to help? Has any one of us written to a congressman, expressing concern over continued financial support of the heavy-handed Israelis? How many of us even NOTICE what our foreign policy is?
Several media reports have referred to this as a second Pearl Harbour. We would be wise to recall that our enemies in that conflict are now some of our staunchest allies. Also forgotten was the American blockade of fuel oil to Japan, precipitating the attack.
This morning the first person I talked to after I heard the news was a black man in an auto parts store. He was lamenting the fighting in the middle east, pointing out that here in Houston such strife is all but unthinkable. The Hispanic parts salesman and I agreed.
The United States is a unique culture, made up of disparate cultures themselves sometimes at odds with each other in their respective homelands. Now one of these conflicts has struck our home. A strong response is appropriate, but we should also look at our actions and attitudes, and take what measure of responsibility is ours. Then, maybe instead of dealing with a symptom, we can address a cause - perhaps even right a wrong.
I work roughtly a mile from there (4 New York Plaza), right by the Staton Island ferry. I was just logging into my computer when somebody walked in and said that a plane had hit the WTC. I went downstairs to battery park, where there is a clear view of the towers, and saw the 2nd plane fly overhead and into the 2nd tower. Huge explosion and fireball. I will never forget that sight! People were in various stages of shock, many people crying or walking around in a daze. I stood there dumbfounded for about 10 minutes, in a state of disbelief, before remembering hearing that the last time terrorists tried to take out the WTC they put a bunch of poison with the bomb to kill more people - but the explosion burnt the poison. I feared that something like that would happen agian, so I told some people to get the hell out of there and took off. I went into my building and sent off a quick email to my parents that I was alive and headed out. The subways were all down, and I wouldn't have ridden them in any case, so I started the 4 mile walk home, making a wide skirt around the lower part of the island to stay as far away from the towers as possible. Then, when crossing an intersection, I saw that there was a clear view of the towers, so I stopped to look. Just then the 1st tower dropped!!! A huge dark cloud of smoke started rushing down the avenue directly towards me. Me and the hundreds of other people turned and fled for our lives - true panic. I kept looking over my shoulder and the smoke was getting closer. I don't think a huge skyscraper like this had ever collapsed before, so I had no idea what the behaviour of the debris would be like. For all I knew, there could be huge chunks of concrete rolling down the street towards me. I ran. I thought the that smoke was going to suffocate me if it caught me. It was coming fast. I got to the end of the road and was confronted with the water. The streets were clogged with panicing people, and I admit that I wasn't thinking to clearly either. I decided that my best bet would be to jump in the water and start swimming, but the smoke got to me and turned out to be dust. I was hanging over the edge of the railing trying to decide if not jumping would mean death by smoke inhalation. After realizing that it wasn't smoke that I was breathing, I decided that it would be better to run through the dust and get upwind of the towers. A few minutes later I heard the 2nd tower fall. Thousands of people were walking up the sidewalk, through the dust.
I made it home, called all the relatives and friends, then paced back and forth across my living room for about 20 minutes before finding out that the hospitals were calling for blood donations. I went to two different hospitals but was turned away - they were flooded with donors. THANK YOU DONORS!
I am not soon going to forget the sight of that
plane flying into the building. The Horror.
Our first responsibility, as Americans, is to recover. To help the families and survivors of this horrible, cowardly act. Give blood (I already have). Call your loved ones, if they think you were indanger. I, personaly, was working in the WTC as little as 6 months ago. If my project had still been there, instead of moving to Mid-Town, myself and nearly all of my friends would be dead. With that said, I encourage discipline, as opposed to knee-jerk reactions, in response to these actions.
Is bin Laden responsible, maybe, maybe not. I don't care. He was responsible for the last attack on WTC and should be hunted down and brought to justice. Anyone who harbors him should face the same consequences. In no way do I encourage mass-invasions or tactical nuclear strikes. Killing more innocents is not the answer.
A better solution is to be aggressive about terroism. First and foremost, protect against terroism. Improve security, be more vigilant about pursing terroist organizations, support governments in their actions against terrorism (England, Isreal, India) and be more forceful (economic) in dealing with countries that support terrorism (Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc).
Finally, acknowledge and react to the fact that the US is neither above nor immune to terrorism. Become active in the elimination of terror. This is in two aspects: 1) Become more sympathetic to world-opinion of the US behavior and react accordingly in areas where it does not comprimise our beliefs as a society 2)hunt down and eliminate those who are actively and violently opposed to the US presence in the international community.
How long does it take for us to call an enemy and enemy? How long does it take to or us to realize there is a war oing on aroundus? How many civilians must die before we are willing to go over political concerns and take action into our own hands? Bombing Afghanistan is not the answer, infiltrating and eliminating danerous individuals and groups is. This attack has raised analogies about Pearl Harbor and the 'waking of a sleeping giant'. The US IS A GIANT, but a giant approach is not the reaction that will be effective. Aircraft carriers are not the answer. Nuclear weapons are not the answer. Intelligence and surgical operations are an acceptable response. The US has some of the best trained military professionals in the world. Now is the time to use them. No more courts, no more bombs, no more FBI, just well-placed bullets to the back of the head. And not just Bin Laden, all those who threaten the US with violence should be dealt with accordingly.
Um....What crack pipe were you smoking when you wrote this? It seems to have completely disconnected you from reality.
I'm not saying the US is perfect in it's dealings with other nations, but NOTHING can justify this. This violence is very real to all Americans, and that fact that you would suggest otherwise tells me you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. You've obviously never been affiliated with a country that has this massive an attack against it. Pearl Harbor was bad, and this is worse.
The people who have committed these violent acts of terror are cowards who refuse to fight for themselves. Anyone can die, it takes real people to live and fight for their cause. America is criticised by people and nations all the time (many people on slashdot do so daily), so to say these people had to resort to this sort of violence is stupid. In fact, since no one has taken credit for it, they can't be making much of a statement now can they? And when did killing tens of thousands of people help anyone's cause in ANY way? The answer is it doesn't. These people deserve no sympathy.
Try thinking a little before you post next time. Your post is just offensive jibberish.
Khyron
In a way, this is true. In another way, it is not.
Normally, when a terrorist group commandeers an airplane, all they need are weapons on board the plane and the ability to persuade the pilot to do what they want, normally achieved by threatening to kill everyone aboard.
In this case, they could not have had the ability to persuade the pilot to do what they wanted --- because they wanted to do something which would kill everyone aboard, including the pilot. You can't threaten somebody like that: "Kill yourself or I will kill you." A rational person will refuse, and hope that you don't really mean it - there's no point in going along.
So they must have had at least one trained pilot on each flight. Admittedly, they wouldn't have need a commercial pilot; an ordinary military pilot would be okay. But even that?
How much is a military pilot worth? More than $20,000? Now multiply that by 5.
This is why there are a limited number of possible organizations capable of pulling this off. Hell, the IRA couldn't have pulled this one off. (Not that they would have, at least not this way - even with the Manchester and Canary Wharf bombs, there were warning calls made.)
And now those five pilots are lost. We just have to hope there's no terrorist organizations out there with 35 pilots in their ranks. Imagine... ugh.
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
I am taking a pre-emptive strike against that, and I invite you all to join in. The fun part is, it's all completely non-violent and legal. All you kill are trees.
I am writing my congressman and senators. I ask other Slashdotters to do the same. You can find them and their mailing addresses at www.house.gov and www.senate.gov.
You will want to snailmail them on this one. Snailmail seems to have more impact on legislators than email.
Come up with your own wording, or use my words below as a template (or even literally--I don't mind).
--The basis of all love is respect
Because America has taken sides in so many conflicts, because America has armed so many countris' enemies, because America has imposed so many "solutions" on so many people, because American troops occupy so many countries, the world has become dangerous for America.
Foreigners generally love McDonald's but hate our government. Foreign politicians explot that hatred. And now and then foreign terrorists try--or pretend to try--to change our government's policies by bombing American targets here or abroad.
But our policies don't change, because politicians never respond by letting go of their power. So, instead of doing something to eliminate the motive for actual or threatened terrorism, our politicians "fight" it with even more foreign adventures.
And they issue a steady stream of alarms about frightening problems around the world--all of which supposedly require our immediate attention and intervention.
But why should we have anything to fear? Our country is bounded by two friendly nations and two oceans that protect us from invasion. We are open only to the sky. Our first military concern should be to defend ourselves against missiles launched from overseas.
[...]
How would a Libertarian government assure our safety?
Our foreign policy would be simple:
[...]
Harry Browne, The Great Libertarian Offer
http://www.komotv.com/story24.htm
WHITE HORSE, Yukon Territory -- A Korean Airlines 747 believed to have been hijacked has been forced to land by U.S. and Canadian military forces in White Horse, Yukon Territory.
The plane, with an estimated 230 passengers, was destined for Alaska, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police said.
The airport was in lockdown.
... at least if "they" are who most people think they are. That's what a jihad is, isn't it?
So I guess not being a country is what makes you a terrorist rather than a soldier.
Ah, the gentle voice of reason. You and I will be lonely people over the next few days and weeks, my friend.
Nothing will be the same again... Ever. This is truly a sad day. I'm not a religous man, but praying may be a good thing right now. I feel for those who may have lost loved ones... and don't know. I also feel for those who do. May mercy come swiftly for the perpetrators.... No act of terrorism on the US will be tolerated.
Linuxrunner
www.slightlycrewed.com - Because aren't we all?
i am deeply saddened by what has happened today. my sympathy for everyone who lost someone today. a stupid movie that people need to see, the siege. history that people need to read up on, pearl harbor. why? because you can learn what happened to the japanese after the attack in america. you should learn about internment camps that america had. Abortion, tax releif, are just ways to sidetrack the most important thing. education. education of history, education of people.
Do you know the kind of security surrounding civil aviation?? I was a former airline employee...I have seen firsthand the security at our airports.
There certainly are cases of airline employees crashing planes also the attempt to destroy Federal Express by a disruntaled employee.
http://images.google.com/images?q=don%27t+tread+on +me+flag
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
People will die without it - here is information on where to donate:
http://www.nybloodcenter.org/
Even if you don't live in the NY or NJ area any sort of blood donation is needed! There are huge lines today at Red Cross but blood will be needed in the coming days as well.
Perhaps you might put down your Holy Bible and pick up a History Book, and find out that the "Middle East Conflict" around which we all walk so carefully is primarily a land-use, and not an ethnic, issue resulting from the colonialism of European powers [the UK]. In fact, up until the early 20th century and the resurgence of Zionism, semitic peoples, muslim and jew, lived together in mostly amicable, though often separate, enclaves. By arbitrarily, forcefully partitioning the land and then giving control of it to one group, the United Kingdom & other post-WWII powers forced the semites into vehemently opposed ethnic positions. Palestinians lost their homelands, and Israelis were cast into the terrible position of having to wage eternal war on the Palestinians in order to survive. Both sides are the victims of history.
The Bible is a great religious text, but it really disturbs me to know that Christians all assume that it is the only source of information, and so all other knowledge can be discarded.
Of course, if you take the Bible to be the record of Jehovah's covenant[s] with different humans and groups of humans over the last 6000 years, then you already believe that the land east of the Mediterranean was given to the Israelites for all eternity and that no one else has any valid claim to it. It is precisely this poor separation of religious practice and realistic policy that has us supporting Israel financially and militarily, as it practices apartheid in its area.
Hollywood, Television, has become the dream machine. We need to take that back; each of us is a Dream Machine
I was talking to my dad and he had some interesting facts:
1. The WTC was built by the Port Authority, therefore it was mostly exempt from building codes.
2. When the WTC was being built the fire department was up in arms about it.
3. In 194x a B-52 crashed into the Empire State building doing minimal damage.
4. When watching the footage of the collapse, my dad said it collapse from the top down, which indicates a structural failure.
Elsewhere someone commented that the FEMA review of the WTC after the 1993 bombing pointed this out.
It took 2.5 hours to evacuate the towers when the first bombing happened several years ago. There is no way they got even half the people out in 30 minutes, I'm afraid to say :(
Not to mention the brave firefighters actually going into the building to help others get out.
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
There are no Israeli civilians either, everyone is part of the reserves and does military service.
I doubt even McVeigh would have done something THIS evil - compared to this, he was a rank amateur. No way an American would even think of this. More importantly, wouldn't it be sort of hard to hide all the planning and organization elements in the USA?
I'm the stranger...posting to
All someone has to do is bring a modified medicinal oxygen tank onboard. The modification is that it holds two separate gasses. One for the assailant to breathe (air) through the mouthpiece and one for everyone else to breathe through a modified valve. Since they aren't looking for hostages, this gas could either disable or kill through breathing.
Once the gas has spread enough to disable everyone else, the assailant has free reign to shut off the autopilot, and steer the plane into whatever they want, without any need to use a projectile weapon.
Now that I've explained how this could happen, I will introduce one method to reduce hijacking. Lock and seal the cockpit. Allow no communications to enter the cockpit.
This would make it so that no matter what a hijacker would do, the pilot is not able to do anything about it. Also, because of a locked door, the assailant is no longer able to commandeer the plane, even if the pilot's abilities are disabled. With the ability to change the course of an aircraft disabled, there is no reason to hijack it anymore, although they could still try to keep people hostage on the ground.
Reagan was pretty useless in the aftermath of the terrorist attack on the marine base in Beiruit in 1983. Oh, he swore to track down and punish, but no target was ever found. And the Marine presence in Beruit was "re-deployed" to ships on the Sixth Fleet offshore in Feb 1984.
My point isn't that Reagan was particularly ineffective; rather that there's not much you can do until you identify an enemy, and terrorist enemies can be pretty hard to find. Most of the threats made are going to be pretty empty.
He said, in essence, that while nonviolence is preferable in theory, when violence is neccessary it should be applied until your enemy is completely and utterly destroyed. That way, he can't see vengeance upon you.
I don't want a war, but if we have to have one, let's win it. No mercy, no pulling back, no amnesty. We go into whatever the country is that sponsored this (if there is one), we destroy the military structure completely, and we occupy the country indefinatly. Everyone involved in today's atrocity, we kill. Let's not indulge in Gulf War type half-measures.
We can never let this happen again. The best way to prevent it, as others have already pointed out, is to kill those with the desire and means to do such things. Worry about morality later - our nation's safety and security comes first.
I'm the stranger...posting to
> What works in war is to wage war.
...the Afghans, for example, have already demonstrated their
Agreed. Do not, however, interpret this to mean that I agree with your assessment that this was an act of war. I do not. See below.
> Anyone who feels that this attack is short of war is a fool.
Your opinion of what war and terrorism are is not even supported by terrorists, and your assessment that I'm a fool because I disagree with you is unfounded.
> It is now time to stop the practice of government sponsored terrorism.
You're treading on awesomely thin ice here if you're American. For example, the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan a while back, purportedly to counter terrorist attacks. A group named the Taliban (sound familiar?) sprang up to counter the invasion. The U.S. sent aids, guns and money to them, purportedly to stop the spread of communism. The caves and bunkers in Afghanistan that protected the rebels from carpet bombing (and, more recently, our cruise missiles) were built by Americans, for crying out loud. Guess how the Taliban fought the Russians? That's right, hit-and-run raids (with intelligance fed to them from U.S. sources) and bombings, including suicide bombings against buildings in cities thought to hold Russian military officials, including a hotel at one point. Please note that none of this is speculation, and is documented in government files (that are available under the FOIA). We were quite proud of our efforts to stem the Red tide then. Now, what was that you said about government-sponsored terrorism?
> Perhaps you will mail some flowers to the Taliban in hopes
> that they will see the world your way!
Or maybe the flowers will remind them where they got their seed money. See above.
> The US has tried many things to answer terrorism. It is time
> to give up on the judicial approach and use more effective assets and
> send a stronger message.
We tried that, too. Remember a backwater country called Vietnam? We sent massive military forces to the country, only to find that massive military might doesn't work very well against terrorism. Take another try.
>
> knowledge of "plausable deniability"...
So have we. Review the Iran/Contra scandal documents and Oliver North's (and Ronald Reagan's) testimony.
> With the growing sophistication of terror devices, and the
> mounting death toll, the free nations of the world must treat
> sponsorship of terrorism as equivalent to acts of war.
They already do, which is a large part of the problem.
> The US probably lost more citizens in this attack than in the
> Pearl Harbor attack, and these citizens were civilians of a free and
> generous society.
How very patriotic, and how irrelevant. Does it matter how many people died? As a case in point, many fewer people died in the Murrah building's destruction than today, but that loss is just as tragic as this. This statement serves only to pump up the rage so that it interferes with resolution of the issue, and makes us all want to go out and do rash things that won't help in the end.
> We will respond.
As we should. The question remains how we respond.
> We can only hope that those other free countries, such as France and
> Germany, which have been happy to trade with terrorist countries, will join us.
Again, you need to consider what your own country is doing before you accuse others. See above.
I don't wish to imply that I'm unaffected by these events. In fact, I'm outraged and spitting bile at this point. But I must temper that anger with two thoughts: first, what was it that got us here to begin with, and second, what action will minimize the likelihood that we'll be here again? The "kill 'em all" attitude doesn't seem to fit the second part very well, so I'm left to consider what does.
Virg
Any terrorist group that can pull off an attack like this probably has people clamoring to join up. The suicide hijackers will be martyrs to the cause and an inspiration to the other memebers of the organization. This will likely cause the ranks of the organization to swell in the near future.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
FYI
The Canadian border is still open BUT get ready for some very strong verifications...
Info from Radio-Canada TV and TVA television.
http://spies.com/~gus/ran/body.htm
-Legion
Please, tell me, do people here still believe in Echelon? If this isn't overwhelming evidence that Echelon is a paranoids pipe dream, I don't know what is.
Americans seem to be largely sympathetic to the Irish Republic in this dispute. I'm hoping that with some first-hand experience of terrorism, many Americans will change their attitudes. Out of some kind of misguided sense of Irish decendency and loyalty, many Americans have funded the IRA--an illegal terrorist organisation.
The IRA (and its new brand, The Real IRA) have caused death and destruction throughout the UK. Anyone who funds Sinn Fein (and thus IRA) is wholly irresponsible. Sinn Fein are little more than a shallow front for the IRA.
The pro-British paramilitaries are no ray of sunshine, don't get me wrong. Yet compared to the IRA, they're naughty school kids. Take, for instance, the recent Holy Cross school dispute. Of course, it is wrong to harass children. But the situation is not as simple as that, and the international press seems unconcerned that a protestant boy has been brutally run over in a sectarian attack. Loyalists aren't the only bad guys.
Please don't fund Sinn Fein / IRA. You've felt the same sort of pain we experience here. If you fund them, you're funding terrorism.
I agree killing people for the actions of others is wrong, so we need to find out who did the thing. And once we do, we need to kill them. Not talk with them - this was a premeditated attack on innocent, unarmed civilians. No, we kill them as quickly as possible. If they are just terrorists, then we are avenged and can stop. If the perpetrators were a nation-state, we must occupy that country to make sure they never do this again. Will that be bloody? Yes, in all liklihood. But we need to protect ourselves - this means we need to take away the ability of others to launch this sort of attack.
I'm the stranger...posting to
So, shut the fuck up, try to be a little less trouble seekers/makers and learn something from this.
No
If a black man shot the President, would you go around beating up all other men of color?
No, just black ones. Not even really beat them up, just some guerilla tatics. Most black guys could probably kick my ass.
Listen as*wipe, the wrapping on someone's head signifies their religeous belief. It has nothing to do with their politics.
So? Their people killed some of my people. For that they pay, I don't care what their politics are just like they didn't care about the politics of my people.
I'm not for censorship, but you are pushing the rights and limits of free speech
How is that? Why shouldn't I be able to express my racist views?
Seattle Television news is now reporting that the Korean 747 which recently made an unscheduled landing in Whitehorse, B.C. had not been hijacked, but was running low on fuel.
Not pick at nits... but the people who funded, planned and carried out this attack almost assuredly do not live "under the thumb" of the US government.
The truth of the matter is that while the US government has repeatedly done everything it can to promote peace in the Middle East, the people who live there do not want peace. They want to kill each other, and we - as a nation - are hated and called the "Great Satan" because we would (admittedly for very selfish reasons) like to see people not killing each other.
Now, if you can tell me how asking people to not kill each other and instead sit down and talk like rational human beings about resolving their differences can be considered overbearing and worthy of the death of 10K+ civilians, then maybe I'll listen to you. But you can't.
Anyone else hear about this?
The RUMOR is that there was a guy in the Phillipines, staying in a hotel, building a chemical bomb. (Quick note: chem bombs are undetectable by dogs. That is the kind of bomb suspected to have been set off when one of the planes crashed into the WTC, presumably planted there to make the explosion bigger.) The bomb blew up, inside the building. They later found his laptop, which contained the plans for hijacking 11 planes, and crashing them into strategic points. All of this has happened today as well.
That's just the rumor I've heard. The 11 planes on the 11th day seems to be true, and you can quite easily come to the conlusion as to why this day was chosen.
My thoughts and prayers go out to all those affected by today's horrific tragedy.
---------
You rip me up and spread me all around in the dust of the deed of time.
The CBC website is now reporting this was a mistake. The airliners were off course and low on fuel due to being diverted from closed airports.
GWB's statement and others voiced in this forum about blaming an entire country for one (or a few) individuals' acts are crazy and send the wrong signals to the rest of the world.
To highlight the absurdity of the statement, imagine that these planes had hit for example Big Ben or Buckingham palace in England. If it later turned out that it was some dissident american group responsible, would punishing the american nation by military means (say, by the combined forces of the EU and Russia for example) be justified? Killing thousands, hundred of thousands of americans for the sole reason that the dissident(s) came from american soil?
I think not.
GWB is hardly helping getting sympathies from other nations (not only for this incident).
Hopefully the next american president will be a person with more reason than this hot-livered "boy". America needs and foremost deserves such a leader, suitable for governing this great nation with reason instead of boyish impulses and provocative statements.
In a society that believes in nothing, fear becomes the only agenda ~ Bill Durodié
MiddleEasternCrazy==Muslim? You've got a short memory, haven't you? Remember some dude called Baruch Goldstein?
David Brin, the science-fiction author, has long been a proponent of a transparent society, i.e., ubiquitous surveillance in public areas, with public access to all cameras. Law enforcement officials can watch everything you do out of doors, but you can also watch _them_. So the surveillance helps the police do their job, while at the same time providing a check against abuse of their power.
Brin's rationale is that at some point the police/spooks/Bill Gates will have the ability to monitor everything that goes on in public whether we like it or not. Privacy is a lost cause, so let's not worry about it, but rather focus on keeping our freedom.
Events this morning have made me start to think that this is the way to go.
TheFrood
If you say "I'll probably get modded down for this..." then I will mod you down.
The same goes for those who think they are clever by posting SOMEONE SET UP WTC THE BOMB and shit like that. Fucking morons.
The U.S. certainly isn't perfect, but it is far better than any of the alternatives that this world has ever seen. Sure, our economic policies don't always work 100% effectively, but the U.S. subjugation, as you term it, has been a lot more gentle than any other regime in the history of the world. We even let you keep your beliefs and as much as your culture as you can hang onto in the onslaught of McDonalds and Hollywood. Heck, we even let other countries beat us at the economic game. U.S. influence might be great, but so is the influence of several of our former enemies (Japan and Germany).
As for those mothers in Iraq. It's not our fault that they live in a country lead by a madman. If the U.S. ignored Iraq, and let it's leaders do what they wanted (and attack whomever they pleased) things would only get worse for the normal Iraqi citizen. Don't throw that problem at the feet of the U.S. Sure, we are meddlers, and we drive a hard bargain for our aid, but would you honestly rather have a Middle East dominated by Iraqi warlords?
I agree with your assessment that justice and freedom need to be spread. I would also add education to that mix, however. Educated citizenry will generally choose justice and freedom for themselves, and if they don't, well, there is little that can be done for them. Education is certainly the only viable way to get rid of hate and prejudice (and even that fails to work very well sometimes).
Oh wait a minute isn't there already a plan to tie them to your phone number? (Don't have the link though).
please update.
sulli
RTFJ.
US and NATO attacked Yugoslavia without declaration of war. Reason for attack was that Yugoslavia didn't sign treaty dictated by NATO. In everyday life such a behavior is called extortion.
Terror does not taste sweet. How do you think did it taste for those people who died when the US bombed that
Belgrade Hospital?
That's true, to an extent. But you're also saying (indirectly) that killing people in retaliation is not an unacceptable comprimise to your integrity. So you're saying that you're rather kill someone than live with someone whose ideas oppose yours.
If you think about it, that's probably the exact attitude those people on the planes had. That same attitude allows people to commit an atrocity and say, "They deserved it." No one deserves it. The rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness should be universal - but because other people do not choose to think that way, this is the very reason that America must NOT choose to strike back against civilian targets. Total annihilation brings about only more extremists, more violence. The only real solution to prevent this from happening again is a peaceful one, followed up by a severe change in American foreign policy.
I don't have an account on here, but feel free to email me at asjbc3@uaa.alaska.edu with comments or flames.
"In the City of God [money/power]
there will be a great thunder, [boom?]
Two brothers [the towers?] torn apart by Chaos,
while the fortress endures, [pentagon?]
the great leader will succumb" , [usa?]
"The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" [ny?]
- Nostradamus 1654
It seems interesting that we are so quick to blame the Arabs just as we did with OKC on this, the 3 month anniversary of McVeigh's execution. Obviously the pilots used in the attack had flown commercial (or military) planes before. You can't just thread the Manhattan skyline after a few rounds of flight sim. Does Bin Laden have access to 4 commecial pilots willing to suicide? Or is it more likely that some whacked disgruntled ex-military pilots, now part of a rightwing paramilitary, made good on the threat to try to overthrow the government. Who stands the better chance of hijacking a plane unnoticed, a guy with olive skin and a khafia or an average joe in a suit.
Just as with OKC, all the major terrorist organizations have disavowed the attack (rather unlike the crowing you hear after a bomb blast in an Israeli market). Just like OKC, no one has come forward to claim their prize.
I'm not saying Bin Laden didn't do it. Just keep in mind we have our share of disturbed zealots capable of this act right here in the good ole USA.
We have dead terrorists, yes. Somehow, though, I doubt that the originators of the plot are among them. The leaders of such things never do seem to do us the favour of eliminating themselves for us.
We have an atrocity.
We have a situation that will decide the course of our foreign relations for a long time. The US will never again have as clear or as much justification for removing any known terrorist faction from the playing field as we do today, with ~50,000 dead.
If we do nothing, we will never again have the support to take action that we've enjoyed till now. We will always be bullies. We will be accused of being discriminatory, of being cowards, of picking and choosing our fights as it suits us.
The detractors will be correct, and we will have no defense against them.
We will never again stand in the position we are in now. Can we afford to not act? Can we afford to turn the other cheek, and pretend this did not occur? What happens the next time some group with a temper nd contacts decides that 50,000 lives aren't too high a cost to make a statement?
This is a foreign concept, I know, for us who haven't had to deal with the daily realities of war. But it is a matter of national honour. The line was drawn for us this morning. We have only two options. We can toe that line, or we can assert ourselves. You know which I favour.
Of one thing, though, I am completely certain. America's days of believing herself inviolable are at an end. The innocent days are over. Are we going to grow up, and adjust to an adult position in the global community, rather than the petted/reviled brat princess role we've been playing? Or are we going to show ourselves as perpetual whingers who don't deserve the power we've amassed?
Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating war. I'm advocating a counter-terrorist strike or twenty, targeted at known terrorist groups, and removing just those people, with as much care and good planning as they showed this morning. They obviously know how to make a statement, and while I don't admire their actions, I think we could take a hint from their discipline. Eliminate the loss of innocent life from their strategy, and implement it against them, would be my choice of action. With no fanfare accompanying the claim of responsibility for the action afterward, but a simple statement of this is what happens to those who kill our people in our land, in this way. This is our policy from now on.
Do I know the problems with this? Yes. I think that, within a great many sets of circumstances, the price of the action will be not too great to pay for achieving the desired result. My three children, and my children's children, should not have to grow up accepting terrorism as a fact of life.
We shall find peace. We shall hear angels, we shall see the sky sparkling with diamonds. - Chekov.
I hope more Canadians feel the same as you.
I'm the stranger...posting to
If anything, I'd call that the vatican he's referring to.
For that kind of burning in my mind, it'd have to be an atomic bomb.
How about the hypotheses suggested at the following article which were written at Indymedia.Org. They suggest that it may be that this heinous act of bloodshed will be used as an excuse by the militaristic/authoritarian elements in the US to force their repressive agenda on the public and introduce a roll-back of freedoms. :
more like the reichstag?
or
right-wing opportunistic backlash
I kinda got that feeling, too... Right after the first speculations on Bin Laden involvement began to surface, I was reminded of this article on Slashdot, posted last week:
Hosting Provider Shut Down By FBI
I wonder if the Feds were already on to something then? Or maybe they knew something was up, and they were desperately trying to find out what?
Hee-hee. Dying tickles!
I was listening to his show regularly then (and still do fairly often now).
Whether he truly called from bombing of "whoever is responsible" -- not an unsurprising, or particularly conservative, response -- he did, quite early on, start telling his listeners that his "contacts", or experts who he trusted, were telling him the culprits were likely not outside the USA; that they were likely to turn out to be domestic terrorists. I believe he was doing that for days before the dominant liberal media came to the same conclusion, but am not sure.
I also remember Bill Clinton coming out right away, blaming Rush Limbaugh (by association -- I think he actually blamed "talk radio") as soon as the domestic angle was finally established.
What I'd like to hear from Rush -- if only our local radio station would stop preempting him! -- are answers to the following questions:
I'm asking these questions because I have no "easy" answers, and because I'm genuinely interested in hearing how someone as thoughtful and practical, as Rush generally is, would answer them.
Practice random senselessness and act kind of beautiful.
another building has went down as of around 17:20PM ET. at the world trade center area
my blog
I tried. They said there were no more bags. Come back in a few days.
Tony B. wasn't visibly shocked when British bombs blew up Belgrade radio stations and people were hanging visibly wedged in those ruins until they died.
A field day for all those masters of rhethoric (and a gift for all who will strangle civil rights. Wait and see).
It only took 3 planes to throw the entire country into confusion and chaos, terrorism has certainly proven to be an extremely effective weapon here.
I just got a call from a relative in Indiana that said she was sitting in a gas line about a mile long and gas was close to $4 a gallon. Two gas stations have run out of gas.
Similiar situation in St. Louis, but not as bad.
Just wait for your freedoms to disappear. The thin edge of the wedge is nonsense. Just wait for the next Columbine / Oklahoma / Twin Towers, and PACHOW! You lose freedoms in the sake of stopping a repeat.
Well, here's another one. Prepare to lose freedoms.
I don't know what freedoms you had to give up last time, but they sure didn't stop this tragedy.
All aside, this is a terrible tragedy.
Well, in order to actually beat Japan soundly, win the war, and stop the Pacific bickering over land issues, it was estimated it would take over 200,000 US soldiers (mostly under the age of 25) to take Japan by conventional methods. Dropping two nukes (it would have only been one if their leader hadn't been so stubborn) was more humane.
... you're more or less right about the *first* bomb. That was dropped to give the Japanese that last push towards surrendering. The *second* bomb, however, wasn't necessary - the Japanese had seen what damage one lousy American bomb was capable of, and were about to surrender. The reason the americans decided to drop it anyway was because this bomb was using a different technique, and they wanted to see what this technique was capable of. Talk about cynical ...
Not quite
News and bla for computer musicians: http://lomechanik.net/
Race and religion is not the enemy, fundamentalism is the enemy. Only when one believes in something so strongly that there is no longer room for reason are acts like these possible. The Inquisition, the Holocaust, and the recent actions of the taliban come to mind.
On another note, it seems to me that if the cockpits of the airplanes that had been hijacked had been sealed off, there would be many many fewer dead. The US has Tomahawks, the terrorists have 747s. Some people from the airlines, or airport security should go to jail, if multiple planes can be hijacked at the same time something is very wrong . Things will have to change, "just" blowing up a airliner is a far better thing than ramming the plane into a building full of 25,000 people.
Also, I now have a much less harsh attitude towards "privacy invading" measures such as face recognition software. In fact I want my privacy invaded a whole lot more especially when I'm getting on a plane.
Maybe the one good thing about this is that if Bin Laden is to blame, the US will certainly cease its support of the taliban, and will almost certainly take punitive measures. Of course whether such measures will hurt the taliban, or just the innocent people of Afghanistan remains to be seen. If of course it was bin laden.
Finally, yes, give blood, as so many others have today.
The Red Army claim is from an AFP wire story. It's getting remarkably little play in television coverage.
Do a search on Lexis-Nexis or on Yahoo for the warning issued on 7 September to bases and US interests in Japan to be on alert for possible terrorist actions. These threats were not from bin-Laden, but had a "Middle-East connection" (as does the Red Army). Also note the Red Army's handy history with hijackings and recent arrests in Japan.
Certainly worth looking into.
It is somewhat complicated, but it would have been very difficult for Japan to surrender. There would have had to be a unanomous vote by the Japanese cabinet, and at least half of them had said they would rather die than surrender. The only reason that they did finally surrender was an unprecidented request by the emperor.
The second bomb was a different story.
Exactly my point.
If a disgruntled employee was paid off to make security breeches for some terrorist organization he's regretting it now.
I personally was not a disgruntled employee, but I did get a good look at our security. It was good, but it could be much better.
Paying security folks more than minimum wage will help.
I believe this is the information referred to.
Arbitration Conditions (September 11, 1986)
Negotiations between both parties extending for several years led in 1986, to a statement of arbitration conditions, which defined arbitration conditions and specific questions to be addressed to the jury, and the number and name of the designated jury members. Following lengthy discussions, a final agreement was reached on the arbitration conditions, which also defined the tribunal's mission and the portions of disputed border points and benchmarks on the recognized international border line between Egypt and Palestine under mandate, in accordance with the Camp David Accord. The conditions provided the award to be passed in this case shall be final and binding.
From
http://www.sis.gov.eg/calendar/html/cl2909b.htm
I alternate between posting +5 and -1 Comments. Karma: +53 -47 = 6
I think you're talking about Jihad, a minority of palestinians who believe in 'convert to Islam or die' philosophy.
I don't want them killed, just...restrained from doing this again. If they're kamikazie, then they may leave no choice but death, us or them. I know this smells of hatred, but from the previous poster, there will be a select few who will not compromise, hopefully we won't deal with them.
The US chooses its allies, aids the countries which stand for the same causes and beliefs that are harmonious with ours, and that's final.
Sebastian
http://kotisivu.raketti.net/wadez/ter.jpg
True, True
There is a national call for everyone having type "O" blood to contribute to the effort.
Israel Radio Military correspondent Carmela Menashe reported that Israel is sending its IDF emergency evacuation team to the United States and that the Israeli flag will fly at half mast.
Woopty Doo Basil, what does it all mean?!
One who anonymously destroys thousands of innocent, defenseless civilians without notice or foresight is a coward.
A hero is one who HELPS people. It's pretty simple, really.
The palestinians might be happy that we got fucked up, but are they any better off? I don't think so. Nobody is better off because of this.
Did you see the TV coverage? The attacks blasted truly massive amounts of smoke and dust into the air - I'm not surprised it showed up on the Doppler.
I'm the stranger...posting to
...this was (costly) political statement, a media stunt. Please, don't buy into the BS war rhetoric.
Fire suppression systems are designed specifically to prevent a small to medium size fire from becoming a large fire. i dont care what kind of system you are talking about, from a fire extinguisher to a halon system, you put out fires when theyre small with fire suppression systems. If they get big, thats why we have fire departments. Regardless YOU CANT PUT OUT A JET FUEL FIRE WITH WATER! Putting water on a jet fuel fire is like putting water on a grease fire, you just spread it around, and dont put it out. The WTC had a sprinkler system im sure, and im sure they also had tanks of water on the roof in case the mains werent working for some reason. But when the plane went through each building, it most likely shattered the mains leading to the roof and all the fire suppression equipment. Even if the mains had remained intact, you couldnt have put out the jet fuel with the water. Granted, after the jet fuel burns out, you might have done it, but by that time, you have an immense fire over several floors, and you cant put it out with simple sprinklers, even if you had the water, theres just too much heat. There is no way, short of making the building half out of ice, and half out of steel, that you could have prevented the collapse after the fire started with so much jet fuel.
The *second* bomb, however, wasn't necessary - the Japanese had seen what damage one lousy American bomb was capable of, and were about to surrender.
No, actually, they thought we had conventionally firebombed Hiroshima, and couldn't possibly do it again quickly without massive preparation. They simply didn't believe it, until we did it again.
But of course, you first had to bomb the hell out of innocent Serbians. It's hard to miss your own people when they are innocent, isn't it?
Note that I do not support terrorist activity -- and I consider all bombings performed by the US in the name of money and (US americans) prosperity to be such. When the current situtation gets more clearer, count your victims (which I hope are as few as possible); then find out how many people have died in Iraq because of the embargo you have forced upon their nation.
The interesting thing is, I'm told that in Taiwan the emergency number is 119!
And it's my birthday, too. Happy, happy day...
*cough* international waters *cough*
*cough* uninhabited islands *cough*
*cough* cheap diesel subs bought from china *cough*
Whole lotta ocean to fire that nuke from , you know.
Or perhaps just a Learjet with nuke attached.
You don't need to be to *close* to your target.
Christ , you don't need to be accurate with a 20MT warhead. An airburst at say 15 thousand feet just about *anywhere* in the U.S. does a lotta damage when you're talking about nuke-sized yields.
You are in a twisty maze of processor lines, all alike.
There is a lot of hype here.
You still think like somebody who fears to die. They don't. They *want* to die for what they believe in.
-Legion
Don't know if this will get past the noise floor (one time I am glad to have the 2 threshold), since I really want an answer to that question. I'm unemployed, broke, can't give blood, unexperienced volunteers aren't likely going to be sent there anyway ...
After Pearl Harbor, Americans lined up by the thousands outside recruitment offices to go off and fight. The enemies were clear, Germany, Italy, and most of all Japan. So even if we nail down exactly who did it (it's hard to plan something of this without pointing back to yourself, this was a suicide mission for the planners too) what the hell can I do? Now what?
I've finally had it: until slashdot gets article moderation, I am not coming back.
-- The_Messenger
CNN is reporting bombs being dropped outside the capital..soryr i can't spell..trying to ge tti out.....
...to kill innocent people anonymously. A coward skulks about, refusing to take responsibility for their actions. These fools disn't have the courage to face real soldiers in real combat... no, they killed unarmed civilians at their workplace.
All terrorists are cowards, be they working for the Earth Liberation Front or Bin Ladan.
All about me
Jewish interests have eaten into US administration like a tapeworn into the bowels of an animal. They are using the US as a trojan horse to pursue their interests. That's the reason Israel wasn't allowed to be named now at the anti racism conference in South Africa. That's the reason Palestine people are living in the world's biggest concentration camp. And nobody cares for them. American news media stations are controlled by jewish friendly ownership. So are most American news papers.
You're kidding yourself if you think those things weren't completely vaporized in the two WTC planes, possibly the others as well. Also, CNN claims to have reliable information which links Bin Laden to the planes. The government has known for years that Afghanistan(sp?) is harboring Bin Laden, their spokespeople have openly supported him, so it only stands to reason that they're all on the same side. Obviously, it's arguable if we wiped that country off the face of the earth we'd be killing people who agreed with our point of view, my counter-argument to you is that there were likely people who agreed with the muslim fundamentalist points of view who were killed in these incidents, other than the perpetrators.
Sadly, there are people who reason and humanity will not reach, some of which have a considerable amount of power, such as Bin Laden. The only solution is to make an example of these people in hopes of discouraging similar actions. I agree that violence is always the worst option, but sometimes it's the only option.
It may have been estimated but the US Chiefs of Staff didn't believe that estimate. They estimated 20,000-40,000 US casualties from an invasion of mainland Japan.
Try reading "A Postwar Myth: 500,000 U.S. Lives Saved" by Barton Bernstein before you continue to spread your sadly dated misinformation.
given USA interference and war games in the middle east the last few decades, the attack is not a real big suprise, though the scale is. maybe it's better to examine why these people are so angry, why a lot of countries are angry, with the US, and the West in general. we westerners generally live in a sanitised environment, these people have lived with warfare all their lives, with weapons and missiles supplied by USA, UK, France to name but a few. revenge attacks are not an answer, and dangerous to drum up that lynch-mob mentality. there is a bigger problem here, and it's hypocrisy, and global government corruption, and a disregard for those they are supposed to be governing.
Oh but I disagree - this is precisely what /. was made for. That and l33t Linux users!
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Want to bet it will no longer be available in the short run? Given the CIA and NSA's catastrophic failure to see this coming in any manner, they're going to need something to blame. Even before this happened, the spin was that "only terrorists and criminals use crypto". I'm certain that one of the short-term consequences of these events will be a) far more sanctioned wiretapping and b) the banning of any cryptosystem that doesn't involve either key escrow or backdoors for NSA use.
Oh please! What a fuckwit. Please think about how the British remember old Chamberlain. Fondly? With reverence? Hardly. And Britain could have easily stood with his ilk through defeat and death.
If I recall correctly, Churchill became PM before there was any such thing as a war over Britain. Only Churchill had the courage to resist Hitler, which of course drove Hitler mad. Was Churchill an economist? No! Was Churchill a perfect man? Of course not, he was a politician! But Churchill's courage in refusing to budge was what made him great, and it was that quality that aligned the nation with him. He was not always popular, but his character and strength in standing up to the Germans was self-evident. And to insult him by calling him a "brandy-soaked old man" shows the extent of your character. How dare you! Especially when he is responsible for the casual freedom that allows you to make such offhand remarks. Your comfortable lifestyle and wealth have turned you into a veritable model of the neoleftist coffeehouse invertibrate. And I'm pretty far to the left myself, friend.
You seem to think we are not at war right now, and somehow we don't need the same quality of character in our highest offices.
In the US we have a way of making one's complaints against the government known...it's called "voting." We already legitimize those with all kinds of views...we do it by allowing them to speak, and to vote, and to run for office. Now, I am not happy about how our current president attained his office. But I will rectify this situation by actively opposing his political career at the ballot box. It makes me angry sometimes, the kind of people who are allowed to vote, but I allow them their chance. So you can't vote in the US, eh? Well, I wonder if your views are particularly well-liked over here then. Nobody seems to be running on the Talk Your Way Out Of Terrorism Party ticket.
However, I refuse to have my course of life determined by outsiders who disparage the very means for our citizens to have a voice...and perhaps you are one of those outsiders. So from the bottom of my heart, please heed my message:
FUCK YOU. Fuck you ENTIRELY.
"'Peace in our time'...Oh, thank you Herr Hitler. Tell that to the Polish. Tell that to the Jews."
-Robyn Hitchcock
"Upgrade your grey matter, 'cause one day it may matter." --Deltron Zero
He said nothing, because he did not bomb Hiroshima. He died several months before the bombing.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
"City Of God" may refer to fighting in Jerusalem recently....
Sure someone will profit - the anonymous thousands of people around the world who would just as soon see America wiped off the face of the earth - or at least get the hell out of their lives.
Not that they're right - I'm sure they're greatly outnumbered by the moderates even in their own communities - but there are enough of them that killing them would mean killing way too many civilians to be feasible.
Sigmentation fault - core dumped
In the last 15 minutes or so, several explosions have rocked kabul. Aircraft may have been present. There was anti-aircraft fire. The target appears to be an ammunition dump, but this is also uncertain. Such an attack would be uncharacteristiuc of the northern alliance(oppponents of the dominant taliban regime), whihc have taken considerable flak for hitting civilian targets in the city in the past. The northern alliance forces are also thought to be incapable of launching such an attack (they are tens of miles away).
I hope with all my might that this is not the result of a US attack.
The truth is out there - we'll let it back in after it sobers up a bit. -The Cube
No one seems to have entertained the idea that these terrorists could have been American. Just as with every other country on this planet America has fanatics, in fact due to the size of the country it has a large number of them. Is it not possible that a group of these people orchestrated this attack? Would it not have been slightly easier for them?
I'm sure most people would like to believe that no American could do something this sickening, but it's certainly possible. And assuming it was a group of American citizens how would everyone's reactions differ? Would hatred turn to depression?
A worthwhile correction. Thank you.
But the overall tone and message of my prior post remains the same. The motivation to aid one country over another has some direct benefit to the USA. Several of the superpowers do/have done so. It has made us enemies, and some short term friends (Iraq).
Were it up to the average Joe, I'm certain we'd be out of other people's hair as much as possible. It's not, and such is the pickle we're in today. And it can only get worse from this day forward.
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
> Obviously, it's arguable if we wiped that country off the face of the earth we'd be killing
> people who agreed with our point of view, my counter-argument to you is that there were likely
> people who agreed with the muslim fundamentalist points of view who were killed in these incidents,
> other than the perpetrators.
Ahh, the "two wrongs make a right" theory, which is just as stupid and juvenile now as it was when you were five years old.
This attack does NOT justify killing innocent civilians - how's that not terrorism itself?
This attack DOES justify expending time and resources to find those involved, remove their ability to do this again, and bring them to justice.
The WORST thing to do is ham-handedly retaliate against everyone who looks at the US cross-eyed - that'll just breed more hatred against it and more terrorists.
The BEST thing to do is to root out the perpetrators in a just and reasonable manner, and to make sure the justice and fairness of the process is SEEN by all. This will show people that the US is fair and just, and will remove incentive for future terrorists.
Remember: retaliation is to prevent future attacks. Temperance now may save lives in the future. Which does NOT mean the guilty go unpunished - both are important.
Israel deprives Palestinin people for their civil rights and has made Palestine the biggest concentration camp in the world.
Jewish interests have eaten into the US like a tapeworm into intestine. Racism gives birth to injustice. Injustice gives birth to hate. Hate gives birth to terror. And Israel is a racist state. Despite it was not allowed to say this fact at the UN anti racism conference in South Africa. (Thank you US and EU)
If you spread hatred and injustice, fire may come back one day. Isreal has made Palestine the biggest concentration camp of the world. Shalom!
thats because one of the greatest tragedies america has ever suffered happened today. I'd say this is "stuff that matters". Is it not? Does it not matter that tens of thousands of innocent people were killed in a terrorist attack that will wreak global havoc for decades?
"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson
You sure? I mean these things are designed to survive .. fiery plane crashes, are they not?
Now of course it might be months before they're *found*...
Oceania is at war with Eurasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.
I was actually responding to a comment that's been modded out of existance (sortof) so it looks like I'm replying to a comment that I'm not. The original comment was the text of the ALL YOUR BASE crap, replaced with ALL YOUR WTC instead. The context change makes my comment look inappropriate instead. Browse at -1 if you want to see what I was really replying to.
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
I'm sorry, but I disgaree rather strongly with this statment. There is overwhelming evidence--documents, statements, wires, etc--that the US is more than a *little* responsible for the fact theat their country is lead by a madman. Not only did we support him when he first appeared (the opposition was feared to be more pro-soviet), we armed him. When portions of 'his' own population attempted to rebel (I am thinking of the kurds in the 80s), he proceeded to use these weapons to murder as many as he could.
Of course, this leads to a complex debate concerning the cold war...Let's ignore it for now. After the Gulf war, we could have acted differently, however. It is inconceivable that an economic embargo would get rid of Saddam, given the kind of society he has shaped...he's about the only person who I would expect to be immune from the general carnage such an embargo mnust produce. the predictable result: thousands+ people who hate the US for effectively starving their children.
The US has a history of not removing security threats, but rather exacerbating them. Am I preaching Assassinatoin? Maybe. But more than that, we need to not arm dictators in the first place!
How is this relevant? my earlier intent was to state that many of the threats to natoinal security, terrorist and otherwise, are products of US policy. In many cases, these policies were not designed with the intent of protecting americans. Instead, they have been crafted for political palatability (read:stuff that makes the policy-makers get re-elected) or to satisy the short-term greed of corporate interest (Like the trade policies in Africa that have caused widespread economic devastation. Many there are unhappy with the US as well). If we want to fight terrorism, we will ultimately need to destroy the causes. In some cases, this means that we will need to change current policies and think quite a bit about how we design those policies (i.e., who determines US policy, accountabililty, etc)
This is not a new statement, and has been repeated even here many times. Sorry if I sound a bit redundant; just want to make sure you understand me. Hope the day improves for us all and that nightfall finds you and yours in safety.
Matt
The truth is out there - we'll let it back in after it sobers up a bit. -The Cube
They can barely aim a rock into a window, and you have them piloting commercial airplanes into buildings.
Boom.
Security through promiscuity is no better than security through obscurity.
This is absolutly unaccecptable. I live in Toronto Canada, and I couldn't imagine an attack on the CN tower or Bank of Montreal building (those in T. know what I am talking about). I've been in both of the twin towers, and this is terrible. All I can say is go after the fuckers. I don't care what's right or not, US/Canada, NATO should NEVER have to deal with this again
Violence does not always beget more violence. Throughout history this is seen many times (i.e. Japan has not retaliated against actions taken during World War II, Nor has Germany, or Italy). The fact that many people are loathe to admit is that in all humans is the seed for true and unimaginable evil. When you see Palastinians dancing in the street because of the death of thousands of innocents (though they are not innocent of all crimes they are innocent of the one they ended up dying because of) it is my oppinion that this utterly wrong.
Yeah... only thing is, it still doesn't work. You need to believe you're sane, and others need to believe you're sane. A massive conspiracy has gone to putting this together... It could have only been rationalized under the guise of a religious belief; there is no other way. Blah, I'm rambling, and not making any sense. Hopefully someone gets my point.
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
I also cried in frustration. Frustation at the thousands of innocent lives lost, the horror the injured and killed must have gone through, the tragedy for family and friends left behind. Frustration at the lives that will be destroyed in much the same way in the U.S. government's inevitable retaliation.
And I am also very scared of what will inevitably happen to Arab-Americans -- vigilante violence, FBI interrogations, racial and religious intolerance.
To tell you the truth, I am about out of tears. I can't help but become cynical. When the Oklahoma City federal building was blown up, I was shocked and saddened. But while I saw Time magazine printing pictures of every last person killed and information about their lives and families, the U.S. military had recently blown up an Iraqi apartment building killing a comparable number of women, children, and men. Each of them had as tragic a story, each of them had a family that was distrought. Here we had two situations of innocent civillians blown to bits for a political cause. I cried at both. I had empathy for their pain. Yet, I saw plenty of people brought to tears over the Time story that actually cheered on the Iraqi bombing.
It is very easy to have empathy for your fellow countrymen while ignoring the suffering of others. Plenty of good Germans cried when fellow Germans were blown to bits by American bombs in WWII. That wasn't empathy or conscience, that was nationalism.
To get back to the point of totalitarian security measures. You say to ignore the question of trust for now, but that is the central question. Do we have any proof that these new totalitarian security measures such as face recognition systems, echelon-style filters on phones and email, etc. will make the world a safer, freer place? And if they are abused, how might one start a dissident movement to correct the abuses?
It's like asking, ok, suppose you are in Stalinist Russia, how do you fight for freedom of the press? The answer is it is best to never let it get that bad in the first place because it will be damn hard.
Ah, but it will never happen here. No thanks. I feel the best way to stop terrorist attacks against the U.S. is for the U.S. to immediately stop it's support of terrorism around the world. Here we have a government that continually gives billions of dollars worth of weapons to various dictators that are torturing and killing their people, and you think it would be better to give our government more power over us rather than the much more effective solution of not giving people a reason to want revenge against us.
The explosions destroyed steel beams probably several inches think, blew through countless feet of concrete, and in addition was subjected to the sudden stop of most plane crashes. They are designed to survive crashes, but they can only be protected so far. In a significant number of normal plane crashes (ones that don't explode and don't fall quite a distance after said explosion) the boxes do not survive or are never recovered. They are stored in the tail of the plane because statistically that is the section of the plane most likely to survive, but everything I've heard says that the planes were completely shattered into small pieces. I give it 10,000 to 1 odds that they'll never find them.
Ridiculous.
You assume that by finding the people responsible and placing them before process of law we will even significantly diminish the chance of this happening again?
The people who commited these acts died for their cause....you really think they will care if you catch some or all of their leaders and put them in prison?
There is a time for a legal response, and there is a time for a military response. The lines have clearly been drawn....this was not a convenience store hold-up. This was not a bank robbery. This was not a drug deal. This was a attack on the fundamentals of democracy and freedom. This was an act of war and the response must be in kind.
The U.S. must destroy these peoples ability to ever attempt this again, and show to the rest of the world that when act's like this are committed, the response is obliteration. Anything less is a failure to protect our way of life
That said, the response should still be well thought out and rational. Identify who did this, find where they are located and remove them from the face of this planet. These things are well within the abilities of the American military. They just need the will and the direction to do so.
this may not be on topic, but i've noticed that the media, the government, and just about everyone, have called this event that happened to be a 'tragedy' this, 'tragedy' that. now, my question is this: is it really a 'tragedy'? how about catastrophe? i remembered back in the day of middle school english that 'tragedy' and 'catastrophe' have different connotations in their use. 'catastrophe' is a sudden disastrous event that occurs without warning, that could not be prevented because it could not be stopped because it completely came out of the blue. 'tragedy' is a disastrous event that occurs as a result as a domino effect, resulting from a buildup of events that are set into place, and are let loose to eventually spiral out of control, resulting in the disaster. perhaps the media and government body are misusing words? (i won't make any real criticism here).
Appeasement NEVER works
Unfortunately, you are completely right. History bears you out *without exception*.
"Jaw, jaw is better than War, war". Yup. True. Except it *doesn't fucking work*".
Ultimately, you have to blow the dust off your old copy of von Clausewitz "On War", and do something nasty. Accept that a lot of your people will die. Have a clear objective. Make use of everything you have. And remember your ancient history.
After the third war, no trace of Great Carthage remained
This story is now the absolute leader in the Slashdot Hall of Fame.
I don't think we can top this.
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
Edmund Glazer, 41, CFO of MRV Communications, an optical network vendor. Survived by wife and son.
Barbara Olsen, 45, conservative commentator, lawyer, and wife of Solicitor General Theodore Olsen. Mrs. Olsen called her husband during the hijacking of America flight 77 from Dulles and reported details of the terrorist act as it occured.
David Angell, 54, executive producer of the television show 'Fraiser.' Mr. Angell and his wife were killed aboard American flight 11 from Boston to Los Angeles. He is survived by his brother, Roman Catholic Bishop Kenneth Angell of Vermont.
At this time, the explosions reported in Kabul, Afghanistan, are claimed to be the work of rebels retaliating against the ruling Taliban for their assassination attempt on the opposition leader Ahmed Shah Masood Sunday. Contradictory reports have left the for Mujahadeen rebel's future uncertain; Western intelligence sources believe he was killed by agents of Saudi billionaire Osama bin Laden, whereas Tajiki opposition members insist that Mr. Masood is still alive following the assault. His death would prove to be a decisive turn in the struggle for Afghanistan, as he forms the linchpin of the anti-Taliban coalition.
The United States has denied any involvement in the attacks currently rocking Afghanistan.
(killdash9)
Speaking as a card-holding member of the new age hippy bastards, I'd like to let it be known that we do not endorse the writings of Nostradamus as a group. Go find some other group to put this guy in... how about just "annoying bastards".
It's possible the date was chosen for a reason, though I doubt it has anything to do with "911," which is simply asinine.
Today is the anniversary of the Camp David accords, which were early overtures at Middle Eastern peace made by President Carter, Menachem Begin, and Anwar Sadat, if I remember correctly. I don't think it's coincidental that one of the aircraft was on the way to Camp David.
Of course, like in OKC, this may well turn out to be domestic sociopaths, although the preponderance of evidence tends toward religiously-motivated foreign sociopaths (note that ideologically-motivated terrorists don't as a rule get involved in suicide missions).
They that would sacrifice their
What's this talk of bringing these terrorists to justice? This isn't a criminal act, yet I keep seeing posts as if we are talking about a crackhead killing the corner convienance store clerk.
So let me get this straight this is how the cycle is supposed to go...
1. Terrorists kill 5000 people
2. We spend millions to hunt them down, beg countries to extradite.
3. Try them and imprison them..
4. Live in a police state, with soldiers guarding every corner
5. goto step 1.
Another poster said the only thing to stop this was..
a. eradication (yes this will work)
b. forgiveness.. how the hell is forgiveness going to stop this? Ok we forgive you, but since we don't agree with your beliefs, and just maybe have a different opinion.. BAM! we get hit again.
"enough talk!"
Awesome!
The Airlines were more likely chosen because:
They were internal flights. There is much lower security on internal flights than international.
The planes that hit the WTC took off from Boston - fully loaded with fuel, and very near, providing the most fuel for an enormous explosion.
I am a Canadian in Toronto and I feel so much anger for the people who did this.
I feel great sorrow also for the victims and families.
I wish their was something I could say that would make it better, but everyone I know also feels the same as I here in Canada.
I hope these terrorists get what they got coming to them!!
Ted
... his work. I can bet, Akamai's servers played a significant role in everybody being able to read news on the Internet.
Tigers respect lions, elephants and hippos. Maggots respect no one. (C) S. Dovlatov
I may be anonymous, but i am not a coward!
What has occured is an attack against humanity.
no-one, no-one has a right to sponsor such an act. This is not an act against america, this is an act against humanity. I echo previous responses: give blood this is the greatest reponse that an individual can make. By giving blood, we show these scum that humanity stands against such acts, that regardless of who it is that has suffered, there is no justification for such an act of unmitigated BASTARDRY!
these terrorists have spent some time sorting out their actions.
They knew what they were doing. They have no excuse for their actions. I'm not the greatest fan of the US, but nothing deserves this kind of response. By giving blood you are making a supremely important statement. I support the people that suffered this indiscriminate attack.
I support the human beings that were innocently caught up in a blatantly political action. These people may deserve to lose their BMW's, but not their lives
Give Blood, that is the greatest individual humanitarian statement you can make to show your condemnation of this inhuman action!!!
>"they had it coming, shit happens".
It seems that is exactly what half of slashdot is saying right now. The consensus seems to be that the US has done horrible things to the Middle Eastern countries and has therefore asked to be attacked in such a way. I think we as a country (the US) should close our borders, stop sending money elsewhere and stop getting involved in everyone elses conflicts. We can grow enough food to feed ourselves, and water is relatively plentiful. If the US is so bad, then fine, we will let everyone else have the world for awhile.
Perhaps we won't be able to find the ones from the planes that hit the WTC, but we should be able to get the pentagon and at least the Penn. recorders.
Today is SEPTEMBER the 11TH- 911. GET IT!
" the people who live there do not want peace. They want to kill each other, and we - as a nation - are hated and called the "Great Satan" because we would (admittedly for very selfish reasons) like to see people not killing each other."
I agree that people in the middle east want to kill each other. But I disagree that we are hated because want to stop the killing. We are hated because if it wasn't for us Israel could not continue killing palestenians. We fund Israel, we make bombs and give them to israel, we make planes and give them to israel, we make guns and give them to israel, we gather intelligence and give it to israel. We support israel 100 percent in whatever act of ongoing genocide they are undertaking. All we have to do is to say "stop it or else the funding gets cut off" and israel would behave.
In short we are hated because we have taken one side of this conflict. As a result of that the ratio of dead palestenians to dead israelis is about 5 to 1. If Americans acted as an honest broker and held both sides responsible for their actions it would not be hated anymore.
War is necrophilia.
Does your arse have any other useful information you can pull out of it for us?
He didnt blame all Muslims. He simply said it is an easy solution to wipe out Afghanistan. If it was Bin Laden, the "government" there habours him, and they are responsible for his actions. If they wont release him to the US, they can feel the wrath.
Fair enough, an equal amount of Afghani or Sudanese innocent fucking office working civilians will be blown the fuck up by a hijacked passenger jet! They are equal, and have an equal right to live, so the same amount should die, right?
Not sure if this was the wedge that is currently under renovation or not.
It was. At least I know the airplane approached from that side, because the reporter on german tv considered this the main reason the plane could slip through the defense in the first place. He also said that there was no real damage compared to the WTC.
Of course the ships will scramble - where have you been? This happens with much less serious incidents. No imperilment applicable.
db
Cig:
ôô
About WW3 ...
"I p 278 (cIX-73)
The Antichrist will rule for "less than the revolution of Saturn" (29.5 years), far less than the grand span of time he envisions. His reign will be temporary, because his power is like building a fire with grass; it burns very hotly but quickly. His effect on history and his "time in the limelight" will be limited. The time from WWII to the end of WWWIII and the time of troubles will almost encompass a century in itself."
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/nostradamus/part6/
Look at it any ways you like, but for you maths fan, we're only 28 years away from 'celebrating' the start of WW2... If this prediction is right, now's the right time in order for something to happen!
It's funny tho how one can find so many ressemblances from what's happening with what Nostradamus said would happen! Really, the anti-christ(read:bad guy) coming from the east, beeing wealthy, ressourful & all and when you compare it with whom the FBI's suspecting (Osama bin Laden) and, oh please, spare me the bs!!, the guy's a _billionaire_ (200-250 billions, that's more than a few countrys are worth... together!!)
One would be a fool to refute the Nostradamus right away due to his/her lack of faith in anything aside from material things!
It's about time humanity opens up it's eyes & stop believing in the 'mighty paper'! Some ppl want a change, how far would you be whilling to go? The lost of TWC is something disturbing that's been done in a _very_ awful away, but, up to a certain point, it's a necessary step in order to change our capitalist's point of view (Again, space me the socialism bs, please!)
Just in case my thoughts would get a wrong interpretation, I am _NOT_ in favor of all human kind's madness that's been displayed today, but I _have_ to admit that hitting both TWC & Pentagon is something quite unorthodox, you have to give that out!
For all of you believers in faith & destiny, we might be at the dawn of a new age, a time where communication as we know it, along with survival, the richness of our Earth (even if it's spoiled here & there...) is still very amazingly in good shape, as we might not even be able to connect on the Internet, eat our daily 3 meats (& sometimes more =]) & be 'stuck in our miserable, lonely lives' for quite longer...
Say Nostradamus was right.... again!?
"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity!"
...but after reading some of the moronic posts here on /., it's just gotten worse. I can live with the ones that are just obvious childish trolls, but I CAN NOT BELIEVE:
/., and responding in blood-red anger like so many others, I'm not sure that we won't be torn further apart than ever. It can only be a matter of time before we start turning this anger on ourselves.
/. for a while, and all other forums, until I can regain some semblance of sanity and composure. May I suggest that others who feel this rage and anger do the same.
A) the Americans who are sitting in front of their screens, enjoying the freedoms that they have long ago taken for granted in this country, and have the audacity to say that we are to blame for this attack, or that we had it coming, or that our way of life is "oppressive" and "evil". It is exactly this sort of thought that has led to the weakening of this country over the last eight years, and allowed this tragedy to happen.
B) those Europeans (not all who have posted here, but some) who are sitting in front of their screens, enjoying the freedoms that they have only because America came to their rescue back in WWII, and have the audacity to mock our country and what it stands for after this attack. You'd think that they'd be more understanding, given the incidents of terrorism that happen in their own countries.
C) those who wasted no time in blithely blaming President Bush for this incident because he is an "evil" Republican. How insane. If anyone or anything is to blame for this, it is the Clinton Administration. Yes, I know that you have been avoiding the truth, but it was because of the Clinton Administration that the military and intelligence agencies in this country were emasculated to the point of ineffectiveness. It was the Clinton Administration that sat idly by while terrorists such as Osama Bin-Laden, who is overwhelmingly likely to have perpetrated this incident, ran free with little more than a slap on the wrist. It was the Clinton Administration who presided over the transformation of Political Correctness from the exception to the rule in this country and effectively neutered our moral resolve. IMHO, this set of circumstances, which led to this terrorist attack, is the TRUE LEGACY of the Clinton Administration. So, sure, just keep on blaming Bush to your little heart's content, but if you do, you will know that you are in denial of the truth.
I kept reading this morning about how this tragedy was going to unite this country and strengthen its resolve, but after reading the posts on
Now that I've spilled my guts for the last time today, I'm going to stay away from
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
Keep in mind, the people in the back are still uninformed... so they sit, wait, and expect the hijackers to negiotiate with authorities. Since the plane is still in the air and not doing a nose dive, the people sit and wait.
Since they're in the back, they can't see that they're heading toward a building- therefor never get the chance to realize they never had any hope for negiotations to save their lives...
- packphour
http://packphour.com
-p4
(c) All Rights Released.
Thats why I always wondered why they don't just record the data remotely, like send the data over a sattelite connection to some central recording center? Doesn't seem like it would be that expensive.
if you click on the hof [hall of fame] for the top 10 posted to stories on slashdot this is now number one by a margin of 200 votes.
Also scroll down the main page and note that the post about linus speeking only got 100 posts and a story about MS ranked in at 300 posts. Current number of posts thus far on this submission is 2200. Not encluding the two others related submissions.
Ascii artist &
Thanks for agreeing with my original post! I was starting to wonder if anybody sees it this way. Folks, this is going to be the biggest attack in US history, even bigger than any of the Civil War bloodbaths. There were 50,000 people in those buildings. Nobody at the blast floors or above got out alive. The ones ON the blast floor were the lucky ones - they never knew what hit them. The ones ABOVE the blast floor had to wait an hour for the collapse before they died - they couldn't get THRU the blast floors to get to the street. The casualties encompassed half of one tower and a quarter of another - that's (0.5+0.25)*50,000 / 2 = 20,000 dead. WHEN TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YOUR CITIZENS DIE IN AN HOUR, IT'S NOT A CRIME SCENE - IT'S A BATTLE ZONE. THE CORRECT RESPONSE IS TO IDENTIFY THE ENEMY, TAKE THE WAR TO THEM, AND KILL THEM. THAT'S HOW WAR WORKS. THIS IS WAR.
1. Three guys who knew how to fly a plane.
2. A few fighting men with knives (that's what an eye witness reported).
3. A plane ticket for each man.
That's it! No big organization necessary! No money, no expensive weaponry, and no planing other than a little research on flight routes.
We may be thwarted by the tinyness of the operation. What's to look for? Where's the military solution - are we going to augment Star Wars so it can protect us from KNIVES?
Rocky J. Squirrel
Rocky J Squirrel
Dropping two nukes (it would have only been one if their leader hadn't been so stubborn)
it would have only been one plane, if your leader hadnt been so stubborn.
two really idiotic statements...
In Winston-Salem NC lines were were outside the building according to a friend. I am unable to donate for medical reasons, but just donated money online to the Red Cross. It took 2 minutes, look upward for links on how to contribute.
With such a day full of sorrow I take some solice by the fact that Americans from all walks of life are coming together to help one another in the wak of this tragic.
By the way the number to make an appt in Winston-Salem is 724-0511.
Thanks
Of course, you would feel different about this if you happened to be one of the 'innocents'.
Duct tape, XML, democracy: Not doing the job? Use more.
All fingers are pointing at Osama Bin Laden. I hate to join the crowd before any proof is offered, but if it is true, guess what, our massive dependence upon crude oil is paying for terrorist attacks on our soil.
So all the yups driving SUVs, and so on and so forth, um, drive a damn fuel efficient car.
Ironically, the oil market has reacted, rather over-reacted to the tragedy, which is driving gas prices way way up. CNN is reporting price gouging at $5 a gallon. Compound that with the fact that the major financial center of the world, and companies who run the stuff, have been creamed. So the futures markets are going to go nuts (tanking, etc). So maybe this attack will cut off the money pipe from the US to the Middle East.
But probably, in a few months after a few thousand pounds of ordinance are dropped, everybody will forget about conservation (especially with our prezident) and go write back to writing the blank check that will fund the next round of attacks.
okay, that's my conspiracy theory.
I would rather die having not killed others than die having done so. To think otherwise is grossly uninformed.
If you think life is worth living after killing, you haven't killed. Ask a cop about this. Chances are they can give you a story of an ex-cop who is a nervous wreck after gunning someone down who threatened their life. Either that or the killer is a cold-blooded murderer lacking respect for life. No matter how much you hate someone, they are still human life. I'm sure the cop hated the person who tried to kill them, but I could find you examples of cops in the situation I describe who are in counselling for it right now.
Come back and say what you've said after you've killed. Tell us it is as easy as you say.
I think you won't and I think it isn't.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
It's interesting that two of these flights took off from Boston and terminated in New York... and a significant number of American Irish in both those cities have been sending money and arms to the IRA for fifty years to bomb London. Maybe what goes round comes etc.
Oh good grief. Lighten up. Yes, people died, but there's nothing wrong with making a joke. I thought it was kinda funny.
but...
BOMB -> JUMBO JET
SOMEONE -> SOMEBODY
And here it is again for you browsing at -1 (so don't mod me down):
IN A.D. 2001 WAR WAS BEGINNING. *BOOM* Dubya: WHAT HAPPEN ? CNN: SOMEBODY SET US UP THE JUMBO JET. Cheny: WE GET SIGNAL. Dubya: WHAT ! Cheny: MAIN SCREEN TURN ON. Dubya: IT'S YOU ! Terrorists: HOW ARE YOU AMERICANS !! Terrorists: ALL YOUR WTC ARE BELONG TO US Terrorists: YOU ARE ON THE WAY TO DESTRUCTION Dybya: WHAT YOU SAY ! Terrorists: YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME Dubya: TAKE OFF EVERY 'ZIG' !! Dubya: YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DOING. Dubya: MOVE 'ZIG' FOR GREAT JUSTICEThere. That's more accurate.
Duct tape, XML, democracy: Not doing the job? Use more.
>Anything less is a failure to protect our way of life.
When did the American way of life become a life of constant fear of terrorism and the instant destruction of anyone suspected to disagree with us?
I always thought the American way of life was Freedom, Life, Liberty, and Justice for All. There can be no justice for those who are dead.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
reality? Do you think that your president reading his speech off of a teleprompter is Real. WAKE UP america. The empire you call home has slipped responsibility for the slaughter of millions. what do you do for a 'living' my friend? let me guess...you're a slave to the capitalist regime just like the rest of the planet. NOTHING can justify this...? How about GOD? Does 'God is Great'ring any bells for you 'folks'? No, how about 'In God We Trust'? Your a dead man.
American anti-terrorism laws (passed after the first WTC bombing or Oklahoma City; not sure) already allow for indefinite detention of suspects. And, if you want to take away someones fifth-amendment rights, all you have to do is require them to testify before Congress for some reason instead of in Court. The fifth amendment applies to judicial trials, not legislative hearings.
Im sure things like requiring encryption public-key escrow or the outlawing of anonymous (FreeNet) and pseudonymous (Usenet, IRC) protocols will come quite quickly now.
And, just to give the conspiracy nuts something to chew on: The government has always been out to opress online expression, it appears. Just when it seems there is mounting backlash against the recent intellectual-property excuses (DMCA), isnt it convenient that the government can once again roll out the old national security issue?
Liberty in your lifetime
Those terrorists killed in retaliation does solve one issue, they will never be able to harm an innocent again.
The point I am making is that the map of "Old Testament Times" in a Bible is not a judicious precedent for setting modern policy. In 1948 the modern state of Israel was created with force and the threat of military force by the major post-WWII powers [in this case, primarily England], and the continuing existence of the state of Israel is a result of the continued application of violence and the threat of violence by the [US-supported] Israeli military.
The brand of "ancient founding charter" mentality you are supporting is exactly the kind of rhetoric which both sides use to stir their populations to inhumane violence. Every culture, worldwide, has sacred writings which establish history and geographic origins. If the story of the covenant between YHWH and Abraham is to be used as a valid basis for establishing a nation in an area where people have been living for generations, then the United States of America must be prepared also to recognize any religious, historical, or tribal claims of its native peoples, and must immediately cede all previously claimed territories back to a tribal council, displacing without remedy every person currently living on the land in question. Undoubtedly, this land would include huge swaths of the continent, not just the relatively small, few reservations the government allows to exist. Where will the millions of displaced United States Citizens go? How will they rebuild their lives?
According to your view it is okay to eject them from the land their families have inhabited for the last two centuries, because somebody else has an older, Grandfather Clause Charter. Do you understand that if this were to occur, there would immediately be rioting, lynching, and mass murder between the two groups? Do you understand that this Race War is the only possible result of the No Compromise / No Regard For Recent History policy you propose?
I don't hold any special ill will towards the state of Israel. As I said previously, who can blame them for defending the only country in which they have an ethnic majority of the citizenry [leaving aside the volatile citizenship status of the Palestinian inhabitants]? And who can blame the Palestinians for bitterness against the forcibly-established "teacher's pet" of the Middle East?
The second point I would make is that you have greatly oversimplified your Biblical History. "The State of Israel" to which you allude is just like every other nation throughout history. Specifically, its borders, citizens, and political identities were in a state of constant flux during the entire OT period. There were not enough members of the original House of Abraham to fill, use, or even claim the land we now know of as "Israel". Abraham was just one small part of a large-scale expansion of civilization emerging from the area around the Euphrates and Tigris rivers. By all Biblical indications, YHWH did indeed promise Abraham some land in the region where Israel currently exists, but the extent of that land -- its size and its borders, grew and receded with the tides of history and power.
The OT is a working chronology of both the spiritual covenant between the Hebrews and their God, and the geopolitical realities of living on the coast of the incredibly culturally diverse sea which would play an essential part in the development of the entire Western World [and now, with 6 billion of us on the planet, the entire globe]. During the 4 books of Kings and Chronicles alone, the borders, the very existence of Israel were highly mutable. Do you think that the Ammonites, Midianites, Moabites, Hittites, Hamites, Assyrians, and the hundreds of other groups, didn't also have traditions of "This land is my land, that land is your land"? YHWH did not, as far as my Bible studies go, give Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, David, Jehochiam, Hezekiah, Jereboam, and other Hebrew leaders a GPS hook-up so that they could know exactly where Israel stopped and the neighboring countries' lands began. Therefore, the locations of those borders were determined the same way nearly all borders are determined: might makes right. Who had the might, and thus the right, to define those borders changed frequently due to pressures both internal and external to the developing Hebrew civilization.
Therefore, while working from the idea that "The State of Israel" is, and has always been a concrete, well-defined concept may be an expedient justification for uncompromising preservation of its current properties, but it is is both historically and politically unwarranted to do so.
Hollywood, Television, has become the dream machine. We need to take that back; each of us is a Dream Machine
More humane to drop nukes on civilians? You're so sick.
yadda yadda
Moron. Retalitation will not stop anybody (we are talking about suicide attackers, remember?), it will only create more innocent victims with good reasons to hate the US so much that they don't care about hurting innocents.
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
--Henry Kissinger
Commercial airliners are difficult beasts to pilot. They needed training.
"It was to spare the Japanese people from utter destruction that the ultimatum of July 26 was issued at Potsdam. Their leaders promptly rejected that ultimatum. If they do not now accept our terms they may expect a rain of ruin from the air, the like of which has never been seen on this earth. Behind this air attack will follow sea and land forces in such numbers and power as they have not yet seen and with the fighting skill of which they are already well aware."
I am an American who has lived in Japan and loved Japan. I wholeheartedly agree with President Truman's decision to drop the bomb on Hiroshima, even when considered from today's historical perspective.
I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. I just thought it might make a lot of you who have relatives/friends that need blood feel better about the lack of blood situation.
(I don't know if someone already mentioned this)
The blood donation centre in Calgary has line ups for donations going to New York. As far as I have heard the case is similar throughout most major cities throughout Canada. I hope our contribution help where the US donations are lower.
"Worry about morality later"
I dont know who Machiavello is, but maybe bin laden (one guy suspected of being behind this) would agree with you on this point
Rise above it, dont sink to their level
Allow me to poke some holes real quick like...
Who are you "going to war" with?
Since it's likely a terrorist organization, who are going to attack? OBL has been the FBI's PE#1 for a ton of years, you don't think they've been trying to kill him in that time?
What good has come from war? Have you ever talked with anyone who's fough in one?
Now for the reasons to just sit tight (and I'm an American who has always lived here, I just don't own a gun)
This is retaliation, I'm sure you've heard it from other posters, so i won't get into it.
Retaliation lowers us to their level.
No other country messes with (spies on) us nearly as much as we mess with (spy on) other countries. You'd be pretty pissed if some other country took out Bush and his cabinet because the election didn't come out in their favor
And then there are the conspiracy theories, which make a sick sort of sense, even if they are only coincidences; why would you possibly give your support to such efforts?
My monologue...
Certainly it is more a testament to the greatness of our nation that we are as angry and upset by this as we are purely through the rarity of such a tradgedy than anything else I can think of. Of all the civilized nations of the world (read: the ones who didn't celebrate the disaster), I would say none is as prominent as ours on the world stage. I would also say that the US security and defense is certainly the best in the world, particularly in light of the freedom we are allowed (blame this freedom if you need something to blame for the attacks) and the physical expanse and variety of the people of the US. No, I feel the best way for us to "strike back" is to show our compassion for all man, and that our love for our nation is too strong to be broken by such fear tactics. Okay, that was sappy, but you get the idea.
And about that Roosevelt quote... it made sense because Japan was bent on destroying us, not scaring us. Do you like to watch scary movies?
Kurdt
I'm not anti-social. Just pro-technology.
No one in their right mind would launch a missile attack against the US. Even if they had an accurate 20MT nuke to fire off at NORAD. For the simple reason that doing so pinpoints their exact location, which would then be passed to USAF and/or USN.
Rubbish. These terrorists believe in their cause so much that they have sacraficed themselves. Do you think they would really stop and think twice about hi-jacking an ICBM and launching from a country other than their own? They obviously don't care about 10 - 50 thousand american lives and I suspect anyone who dies in a retaliation would have died for a 'greater cause' and as such it would be alright.
Pinky: "What are we going to do tomorrow night Brain?"
Brain: "I would tell you Pinky but this 120 char limi
So what you are saying, is that it was ok to kill 125,000 people because otherwise America was going to kill a lot more! Great thinking!
Yeah and a german prince will come and make sure that there will be peace again....
First off I doubt the budget was anywhere near $100,000 as the most likely suspects for this terrorism are motivated by religious zealousness rather than payment as would be the entire training and support structure for the attack. It's not like they needed anything other than the price of the clothes on their backs and the plane tickets once the were in the US.
t er ror_980609.html
Furthermore retaliation is an undeniable fact. If this attack was ordered by Bin Laden as the CIA claims, then even if we don't retaliate Bin Laden will continue to order terrorist attacks against the US. Don't believe me? Anyone remember the ABC interview with Bin Laden 2 years ago?
Read the transcript here and tell me this man will leave the U.S. alone if we do nothing:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/dailynews/
This quote does not come from Nostradamus, he died in 1566.
If this had happened in a civilised country it would have been a disaster. But no country that practises capital punishment AND posseses nukes deserves peace.
Would you stupid americans cared if this had happened in China?
(Can i rate this message down myself? Euhm, noop, i'll leave that to the first reader)
Certainly, there are some highly visible fanatics out there. My point was that we should just be careful about the kinds of generalizations we throw around at a time like this.
Who cares? Like I said - and all the bleeding heart tree-hugging happy-go-lucky liberals on Slashdot modded me down for - WE ARE AT WAR.
And I don't give a shit that Mecca is a city in Saudi Arabia. It's a holy city to Islam, and they see it either as heaven or a means to it.
One wonderful shot on the news was the Palestinians jumping around and celebrating. My, their women are ugly. No wonder Arab men keep their faces hidden despite the sunstroke problems that must incur. But anyway, they were celebrating and partying with their Ford minivan.
Apparently, they're not smart enough to understand their own hypocrisy.
Don't they have Adbudullah-Wahid Motor Company there? Nope? So they have no problem driving one American institution while they blow up another?
Nuke 'em. Men, women, children, all. Nuke 'em.
We are at war. Mod this as you want - that's why I'm posting anonymously - but you will see that I'm right.
"greatly outnumbered by the moderates"
The moderates will probably just not be that bothered that they`d want to risk their own life. They`re still pissed off about Americans poking their noses into their affairs like they are the worlds policeman, judges and jailors.
If they had just attacked the pentagon, and hadnt use civilian aircraft, i believe they would have got a lot of respect from a lot more people (especially within America).
Time to sort out some of the worlds problems, rather than making money from them. Although i doubt that will happen - instead it will be used to promote the new world order some more, you`ll have a whole load of CCTV cameras popping up, id cards, laws against encryption & anon net access...
This thread has toppled The Star Fraction as the top most active post ever on Slashdot! Huzzah!
You're forgetting one thing though... The plane outside of Pittsburg did NOT go down inside a building. They can pull the recorders from that plane and gather some evidence from it immediately.
I sig, therefore I am.
The most likely people to do this would seem to be Islamic groups due to US policy in the Middle East. People in Iraq and other countries are indoctrinated to believe that the US is some sort of monster and to blame for all their problems. Lashing out and quite possibly killing more innocent people in the process will only reinforce this view. The US should try to remain calm and the message it should try to send is that Americans are not monsters.
BS. I work in aircraft simulation, and I "flew" a plane the first time I sat behind the controls.
The hard part is starting the engines, the flight check off, programming the nav computer, talking to the tower, and knowing when to abort a takeoff. Landing is also hard. Once you are in the air, near cruising altitude, it's damn easy - the nav computer does most of the flying, and even if you ignore the tower, there are now on-board computers that warn you if you are too close to another aircraft.
No, if you kill or disable the pilot, even you can jump into that pilot seat, give the yoke a shake to disengage the flight computer, and point that plane where you want. If you don't know how to work the trim, you may have to flight the aero dynamics, but you could certainly target the plane. Hell, if you can work the radio enough to get in touch with the tower, you might even be able to land it.
War? Against who?
Anyone?
I know we all have guesses, but do we really know?
We have a short list - Bin Laudin (gonna have to learn how to spell that), Iran, Iraq, maybe Syria, probably not Libya, Cuba, Serbia, or a domestic group. Probably not. Should we bomb the hell out of them, because they are on the short list? For every father will kill, we'll create another supporter for terrorism. For every child, two or three. Nice strategy.
What if the culprit flies to France, then turns himself in? What if the French refuse to turn him/them over until we agree to remove the death penalty from the possible punishments? Do we bomb France?
What if all those involved were part of the plan, and buried with their victims? What then?
Someone just punched us in the nose in the dark. We should stop the bleeding, and wait until morning to figure out who it is.
>Nepal will NEVER NEVER produce a large wheat >crop. NEVER.
This may be true
>We aren't "oppressing" them, [...]
>Oppression comes in many forms.
Here I disagree with you. Maybe the people of Nepal really arent opressed by anyone. Maybe the western world has no "slaves" or something where oppression can be that easily seen. But think e.g. of South Africa where western pharmaceutical concerns tried to force the government not to produce affordable aids-treatments (as far as you can treat that disease by now) due to patent reasons. As the South Africans had bigger problems than patent violations (4.2 million infected - MILLIONS dying in the next years) the WTO stepped in and threatened to sanction South Africa.
Think of (I think) India where western firms tried to push "terminator seeds" into the market which grow exactly one time and the die so you have to buy new ones every year.
Think of the price for coffee. It has actually fallen by some 30-50% in the last 20 years. Why? People producing it need some things we have really desperately. So we dictate the price.
Hell, think even of Europe. EU _officials_ stated less than a week ago that US intelligence services not only gather information for national security reasons but also commit industry spionage. And well, I recently heard the Europeans were not only Americas "friends" but "partners".
BTW: strictly following UN statutes the US would already have had to be _expelled_ for not paying its contibutions.
Way to go: Taking advantage of not having to follow the rules because everyone else is too weak to enforce them can be seen as kind of oppression too if you like.
Great wealth and power bring great responsibility. And as long as workers in most of the world hardly earn enough to live while producing goods for _us_ we mustnt tell how much good we do to the world by paying a few international organizations.
exactly. Thats the reason why theres no inequality in the world, especially in America.
Thats why America gets richer while the rest of the world (excluding Europe/Japan/a few others) get poorer.
Thank you America
check the facts
No.
Don't put words into other people's mouths, and then attack them for things they didn't say, anonymous coward asshole.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
It doesn't take a trained pilot to keep a plane in the air. Takeoff and landing are hard, steering is not.
You must be thinking that the people that hi-jacked the planes did the planning and prepping alone...
Aliens? Magnetic Rings?! Bah! Who needs that when we have
Ceci n'est pas un sig.
Surely you're not implying that GWB is a great leader?
Let's remove the assasination law and begin picking off these terrorist leaders one by one. There are alot of Navy SEALS waiting for their oppurtunity to show off their skills. Also, I heard that all US hackers are going to start taking down Middle Eastern sites. I praise them for this and will be trying to help out in any way possible.
> I agree with the rest of your response, but I don't think it's right
> to dismiss whoever did this as insane because that simply perpetuates
> the idea that these people are impossible to reason with, which is not true.
I agree, but although I tend to think of fanaticism as a type of insanity, it's not, in the official sense. However, I have found that sectarians (and fanatics, by extension) are indeed very difficult to reason with.
Virg
Tikka
Nostradamus [nostradamus-repository.com] - the real deal.
Amen. It is reassuring to know that there are some people out there who see the bigger picture on this.
I have an rebuttal to your post, but I can't get it past the content filter at work (triggered by "terrorism/anarchy terms", imagine!). Review your posts tonight for my reply.
Virg
You know the only way to fight and win against a terorist to to become a bigger terrorist. A terorist believes in fear, well megaton nuclear bombs can sure generate fear, heat and light. Let's show these idiots that if you forsake humanity then you need to be taken into the light. When you think about, we are helping them acheive everylast happiness they get to meet Allah first hand. It is time to put an end to the rabid dogs the culture that produces them.
There is no profit to be made, silly.
do the hokey pokey and maybe get yourself killed is what it's all about.
the interesting thing about pacifism is that it's not an angle which really allows for much wiggle room. Either you do not engage in violence at any time for any reason, or you engage in violence, however limited, and sacrifice the moral ground to condemn the violence of others, who possess their own set of grievances and justifications.
what those who seek to learn about pacifism must understand is that it is a moral, spiritual, humane philosophy. as such, it asks its suscribers to subject to a seemingly impractical code. for if pacifists cannot find an effective nonviolent means of defense, they will tend to die out, leaving the world populated only by non-pacifists. this is where it is necessary to understand that pacifism is not a Religion or a God -- there are no promises of divine intervention to save you and not necessarily any eternal happiness awaiting should you die [although a significant portion of Western Pacifism derives from certain Christian sects who eschew the slash-and-burn evangelism practiced by the mainstream catholic and protestant denominations]. the hope of a pacifist is not necessarily to be rewarded in this life or the next, but rather to stand against the immorality of violence against fellow human beings.
[one place to start would be http://www.catholicworker.org/ ]
the other thing many people don't understand about pacifism is that it does not preclude solid self-defense. it only takes a shift of thinking away from the mainstream assumption of "we need to have the resources to kill anyone who tries to harm us" to "how can we best avoid violent conflict and what nonviolent defenses can we rely upon if we are attacked".
Hollywood, Television, has become the dream machine. We need to take that back; each of us is a Dream Machine
The Seattle Times quotes the CEO of the engineering firm that designed the towers, that 1 hr of burning jet fuel exceeded design specs of support beams, they buckle, impacted floor collapses, followed by chain reaction.l d/ 134340502_engineer12m.html
r ld /terrorism/collapse_12.html
Interview at:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationwor
Graphic version:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/nation-wo
of course you might do that.
BUT: wheres your coffe from? wheres your oil from? wheres your stereo from? where are your nike shoes manufactured? wheres your [insert ten billion things] from?
ok. while you might be able to do without all that you would not be able to keep your current standard of living. wealth always comes from having others working for you. its not like when you close the borders theres the same amount of money in america and it will stay there because you stop spending it on the foreign idiots. those foreign idiots are vital to your (and ours as well; im from europe btw) wealth. So dont be offended. the more power you have the more power is expected to be used for doing good and not for personal interests which seems exactly what the us are using it for.
Strange how you like using an AMERICAN invention... the Internet.
... the World Wide Web (
Strange how you like using a SWISS invention
www.cern.ch/Public/ACHIEVEMENTS/web.html)
Last time i checked there were also quite a few cars in the us (GERMAN invention). Also please stop using the train invented by the BRITISH. This is bullshit. But your being angry at anyone who dares criticize the Great&Allmighty U.S. makes it darn difficult to discuss seriously. While most US citizens are ok there is serious reasons to dislike the action of the United States as a whole. At least some of them. You have to leave behind your black/white view on things and be able to take criticism also from your friends.
btw: i dont think that this "fuck everything American" comment beginning this threat was very wise but there are some things america seriously needs to rethink
i salute your post and the objective you are helping to accomplish. trolling has become the most effective online method for putting a mirror up to the face of humanity and forcing it to see how morally ugly we can be. in two hundred years, slash/blog/usenet/e-diary archives will have become the sacred parables read by children learning the history of their species.
thanks for being here on the front lines of discourse.
"sincerity is the new irony" -the Brunching Shuttlecocks
Hollywood, Television, has become the dream machine. We need to take that back; each of us is a Dream Machine
as it turns out, of course, I'm right.
it doesn't take a trained pilot to keep a plane in the air. it does take a trained pilot to cause the plane to turn into a missile.
and as it turns out, among the terrorists were several trained pilots: all of whom apparently received their training in the USA, and were on a list of known terrorists.
this is a failure of intelligence at the highest level.
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore
I saw a flag at half mast today. It was blowing in the wind. I'm in Scotland.
cd /bin
mkdir Laden
We want a nice ROUND figure of 2500 (two thousand and fifty) posts on this article.
Wouldn't that be swell?
Ooooooooh yeah.
I am sorry for my raging reply, and for it's incorrectness. Yes, Israel was driven out of Israel by their enemies because they turned away from God, not because of "stupid nazi's".
I also need to say that I'm of German nationality, and therefore I hold nothing against the German people, just the Nazi ideas of the past.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14