I'm with you. I scanned as much of the discussion on this as I could stomach, and you made the most valid point. MP3Board did a very interesting move, I bet people have tried it in the past but I'd like to see it.
Think about it, being sued for facilitating freedom, and seeing the side of freedom crying that it hasn't the firepower to stand up to the forces working against it would make someone scared.
Now like "The Mouse that Roared" it attacks someone with lots of firepower to that firepower on their side. Its brilliant, and could play as the key turning point in this whole matter. I want to meet the person who came up with this plan.
I for one hope it works. Here's to the little countries...
The fact that we have to depend on the Xfree maintainer (who I actualy like as a person from the conversations I've had with him) is a shame. One of the most untapped strengths of the.deb packaging is its ability to be contributed to by outsiders (like helix for example.)
I hear ghosts of the early days which developed the packaging system to incorprate even commercial entities who would like to have a way to package their products for debian. I remember seeing great lengths to encourage buisnesses to do so. Now a prevailing political attitude has become very exculsionary and elitist.
Remember Debian didn't start out as trying to be the icon of free development. Its getting mired in that pursuit right now. It started out to be a managable reference distribution that everyone could extend, a LSB that people would naturaly choose. But now the chefs are locked in the kitchen with no one wanting to supply the eggs that they'll use in a food fight rather than to make cake. And the chefs are ignoring that anyone can make a cake outside of their kitchen. The result? No cake. But more becuase people keep looking to the kitchen for food rather than make it themselves. I'm not blaming the chefs entirely on this one.
So what I'm saying is its not the packaging system's fault, its not the debian management scheme's fault. Its just the same thing organizations suffer from all around the world, they get to happy with the the way things are and entrench themselves in their own ideology, start drinking their own kool-aid, and stop living.
BTW, what ever happened to herring? maybe it was a little to open for them or maybe it was a little to open to work.
aside from ome ouside help the unstable doesn't have...
Xfree 4.0 (let alone 4.0.1)
A listing of available packages shows an embarrasing out-datedness. (I'm to tired to post them now and I have to get to work.) Nope and if ever there was a cathedral 'we're just the best becuase we are' set of developers sitting on their laurels its #debian-devel.
If it weren't for the utah-glx people, whomever is cool enough to run kde.tdyc.com, and the helix people it would be conidered 'dead' in my eyes. Meanwhile in #debian are people screaming 'I want to package XXXX but they aren't accepting new developers right now...'
I think it is important to note that Spiritual (of the spirit) is an influence.
It can happen externaly, like at a high school football game where cheer leaders chant and dance as spirit leaders, or when you feel influenced and motivated externaly to be a part of a team, and enjoy it thats a team spirit. Alchohol is refered to as "spirits" while, driving when drunk is driving under the "influence". When we hear a speaker speak with lots of influece we call it "spirited."
In that matter one can say that everything from a book (when read) or TV shoe (when watched) has a spirit or an influence to it. I think somehow we've intitutionalized "Spiritual" to mean "religious" (as in a spiritual message is a religious message) becuase to many people over time thought thats the only spirit that mattered, but that is a falicy in my opinion.
Interestingly enough people have spirits too. Ever felt like you knew someone when you met them? Could that be that you feel an influence that you recognize, and pretty much know what kind of person would exute that influence (mostly out of personal experience)? Ever feel the creeps around some people, comfort around others, anger around some too? Thats our reactions to their influence. And its transfered through their animation, their style more than some ethereal dimention.
Anyway I don't know where I'm going with this, but I thought it might be food for thought since you were wondering in general about spiritual influences. (And yes, I find it interesting that every culture that I know of has words for and ways to describe that there is a ethereal spiritual connection where we can feel influenced even if no one is there. And the influece to help build and create beauty is generaly prevelant as is the influence to mock and destroy beauty.) I guess all I'm saying is that if we don't try to build extravagance into it then the term spiritual becomes something that is more tangible and makes sence.
I like to think of it rather as the Libertarian party is the only party I know of that believes in not sheltering people from the concequences of their own actions, equaly and fairly. That is why I'm libertarian.
Unfortunately I've found it too easy (especialy in the party) confuse this with the right to not suffer the consequences of their own actions. Especialy along an axis that oversimplifies authoritarianism as paying concequences for actions. Its just to seductive and easy to purchase peoples souls with the promise of cake they can eat and have.
BTW: heres some libertarian humor for you...
If vegetarians eat Vegetables, and Fruititarians eat Fruit, then what to Libertarians eat?
Admittedly when it comes to the debate on Mozilla being bloated and 'why can't we have just a browser' I think that a well written app of that magnitude will probalby and should be easily extended into other things. Its not a sign of bloating but good software design that people rather tack something on it.
MozOffice, vs Gnome Office vs KOffice means more to me that we have good frameworks for making integrated office applications (phil begone, its unnatural!) I still would like to see SIAG and such make a run for it also. And who knows, the dream of JavaOffice still might not be that far off.
Did I hear shudders? I wonder how many linux puppies are not looking into a future of even better things. As if they have arrived and say 'six xterms and a soda Pop and I have a GUI. I want it small and light and easy to program in 1986 technology!'
Such is the barnacles that induce drag on any forward moving ship.
HAHA, if you saw those letters in the sky would you believe? I would think it was an advertisement for NASA.
Wait, maybe he could show himself to us. Yeah, and perform many miracles to show his power over the elements, like calming the oceans, healing the sick, raising the dead, raising himself from the dead. Ohh, even better he could tell people before hand what he was going to do so that! That way people could know that he really was the same God talking to all those prophets in olden times.
And since these prophets will be testifying of things they know have and will happen we'll call it a Testemant. And since everyone won't be there when he comes we can have the poeple who are around write down what they've witnesses as their testimony. We should call that a testemant to, becuase it compiles testimony, but we've already used that word. No, wait! We'll call the first one the Old Testament, and the latter the New Testament.
But then how will people know that the testimonies are true and not a great hoax built by a conspiracy of hundreds of people? How about by establishing a way to ask God directly? We'll call it Prayer. Someone can ask God directly and he directly answers.
I don't know if this will convince everyone though...
Another said the same thing well when he said, "The fullness of the gospel is not in the [scriptures], its in the lives of the people who apply what the teachings in them".
That is an interesting statement but the glaring issue of it is that it answers itself.
Q1-Why Doesn't [He] just make it obvious? A-By like spelling it out in a book? Maybe many books in case we are too dense to catch it all in one book. We'll put them in a Library or Biblios (Bible) becuase we find the truths in the precious and help us know God.
Q2-Why do people need Bibles? A-to supply the answer to Q1
I kept looking but I didn't see a pony in that pile of horse maneure...
Seriously though, someday you might meet me in person. Until then my friends and I will have a laugh that someone considered me less than a Don-Quixote idealist.
Its an old Simpsons thing. I can't remember the role it played in the episode, but the mock commercial at the end was hilareous (sp). Even though I really enjoy Suburbans.
I have a Ford Festiva (aka kia Pride) from the same year. Its at 190k+. But then I did have to rebuild the transmission about 3k ago. The engine shows no signs of giving up, and the heads still barely leak oil. The main seal in the back is leaking more, but most of it is leaked from the oil pan due to a mistake on my part where I stripped the threads on the block overtightening it. I know of two (personaly seen) 200k+ festivas. Now quit complaining on a trademark.
Geeks think that not playing popularity games makes them superior. It doesn't. I've watched my nephew and nieces lately and they show some very geek like traits, smart, decisive and etc...
But where that all shuts down is where they think that the world must conform to their genius. They'll enter into a (for them) logical debate which essentially assails their opponents with many accusing remarks and then when the kids are mean to them they use that as further justification of their own morality. This about got them beat up at a park when they thought that it was fair that they owned something becuase they were playing with it first. When trying to help them understand that at playgrounds we share things they thought that the other kids were just being mean and selfish for not respecting their right to play with it.
All in all, most of the problems suffered by geeks work in that same pattern. I know I was like that, and suffered social rejection harshly becuase of that. It wasn't until I learned that I wasn't special and everyone had rights and feelings as legitimat as mine that I got along and got more friends.
Slashdot Mirror
I'm with you. I scanned as much of the discussion on this as I could stomach, and you made the most valid point. MP3Board did a very interesting move, I bet people have tried it in the past but I'd like to see it.
Think about it, being sued for facilitating freedom, and seeing the side of freedom crying that it hasn't the firepower to stand up to the forces working against it would make someone scared.
Now like "The Mouse that Roared" it attacks someone with lots of firepower to that firepower on their side. Its brilliant, and could play as the key turning point in this whole matter. I want to meet the person who came up with this plan.
I for one hope it works. Here's to the little countries...
I think, waffle I am
Its more correct to what your sig is. Yoda like, it sounds.
The fact that we have to depend on the Xfree maintainer (who I actualy like as a person from the conversations I've had with him) is a shame. One of the most untapped strengths of the .deb packaging is its ability to be contributed to by outsiders (like helix for example.)
I hear ghosts of the early days which developed the packaging system to incorprate even commercial entities who would like to have a way to package their products for debian. I remember seeing great lengths to encourage buisnesses to do so. Now a prevailing political attitude has become very exculsionary and elitist.
Remember Debian didn't start out as trying to be the icon of free development. Its getting mired in that pursuit right now. It started out to be a managable reference distribution that everyone could extend, a LSB that people would naturaly choose. But now the chefs are locked in the kitchen with no one wanting to supply the eggs that they'll use in a food fight rather than to make cake. And the chefs are ignoring that anyone can make a cake outside of their kitchen. The result? No cake. But more becuase people keep looking to the kitchen for food rather than make it themselves. I'm not blaming the chefs entirely on this one.
So what I'm saying is its not the packaging system's fault, its not the debian management scheme's fault. Its just the same thing organizations suffer from all around the world, they get to happy with the the way things are and entrench themselves in their own ideology, start drinking their own kool-aid, and stop living.
BTW, what ever happened to herring? maybe it was a little to open for them or maybe it was a little to open to work.
aside from ome ouside help the unstable doesn't have...
Xfree 4.0 (let alone 4.0.1)
A listing of available packages shows an embarrasing out-datedness. (I'm to tired to post them now and I have to get to work.) Nope and if ever there was a cathedral 'we're just the best becuase we are' set of developers sitting on their laurels its #debian-devel.
If it weren't for the utah-glx people, whomever is cool enough to run kde.tdyc.com, and the helix people it would be conidered 'dead' in my eyes. Meanwhile in #debian are people screaming 'I want to package XXXX but they aren't accepting new developers right now...'
Ahhh, tis a never ending connundrum.
I think it is important to note that Spiritual (of the spirit) is an influence.
It can happen externaly, like at a high school football game where cheer leaders chant and dance as spirit leaders, or when you feel influenced and motivated externaly to be a part of a team, and enjoy it thats a team spirit. Alchohol is refered to as "spirits" while, driving when drunk is driving under the "influence". When we hear a speaker speak with lots of influece we call it "spirited."
In that matter one can say that everything from a book (when read) or TV shoe (when watched) has a spirit or an influence to it. I think somehow we've intitutionalized "Spiritual" to mean "religious" (as in a spiritual message is a religious message) becuase to many people over time thought thats the only spirit that mattered, but that is a falicy in my opinion.
Interestingly enough people have spirits too. Ever felt like you knew someone when you met them? Could that be that you feel an influence that you recognize, and pretty much know what kind of person would exute that influence (mostly out of personal experience)? Ever feel the creeps around some people, comfort around others, anger around some too? Thats our reactions to their influence. And its transfered through their animation, their style more than some ethereal dimention.
Anyway I don't know where I'm going with this, but I thought it might be food for thought since you were wondering in general about spiritual influences. (And yes, I find it interesting that every culture that I know of has words for and ways to describe that there is a ethereal spiritual connection where we can feel influenced even if no one is there. And the influece to help build and create beauty is generaly prevelant as is the influence to mock and destroy beauty.) I guess all I'm saying is that if we don't try to build extravagance into it then the term spiritual becomes something that is more tangible and makes sence.
And there's a WaterBuffalo, he's a cousin to the Sabu(sp)
its plain to see, your brains are very small...
A good quoting of Libertarian rhetoric.
I like to think of it rather as the Libertarian party is the only party I know of that believes in not sheltering people from the concequences of their own actions, equaly and fairly. That is why I'm libertarian.
Unfortunately I've found it too easy (especialy in the party) confuse this with the right to not suffer the consequences of their own actions. Especialy along an axis that oversimplifies authoritarianism as paying concequences for actions. Its just to seductive and easy to purchase peoples souls with the promise of cake they can eat and have.
BTW: heres some libertarian humor for you...
If vegetarians eat Vegetables, and Fruititarians eat Fruit, then what to Libertarians eat?
Someone is saying my thoughts out loud.
Admittedly when it comes to the debate on Mozilla being bloated and 'why can't we have just a browser' I think that a well written app of that magnitude will probalby and should be easily extended into other things. Its not a sign of bloating but good software design that people rather tack something on it.
MozOffice, vs Gnome Office vs KOffice means more to me that we have good frameworks for making integrated office applications (phil begone, its unnatural!) I still would like to see SIAG and such make a run for it also. And who knows, the dream of JavaOffice still might not be that far off.
Did I hear shudders? I wonder how many linux puppies are not looking into a future of even better things. As if they have arrived and say 'six xterms and a soda Pop and I have a GUI. I want it small and light and easy to program in 1986 technology!'
Such is the barnacles that induce drag on any forward moving ship.
HAHA, if you saw those letters in the sky would you believe? I would think it was an advertisement for NASA.
Wait, maybe he could show himself to us. Yeah, and perform many miracles to show his power over the elements, like calming the oceans, healing the sick, raising the dead, raising himself from the dead. Ohh, even better he could tell people before hand what he was going to do so that! That way people could know that he really was the same God talking to all those prophets in olden times.
And since these prophets will be testifying of things they know have and will happen we'll call it a Testemant. And since everyone won't be there when he comes we can have the poeple who are around write down what they've witnesses as their testimony. We should call that a testemant to, becuase it compiles testimony, but we've already used that word. No, wait! We'll call the first one the Old Testament, and the latter the New Testament.
But then how will people know that the testimonies are true and not a great hoax built by a conspiracy of hundreds of people? How about by establishing a way to ask God directly? We'll call it Prayer. Someone can ask God directly and he directly answers.
I don't know if this will convince everyone though...
Another said the same thing well when he said, "The fullness of the gospel is not in the [scriptures], its in the lives of the people who apply what the teachings in them".
That is an interesting statement but the glaring issue of it is that it answers itself.
Q1-Why Doesn't [He] just make it obvious?
A-By like spelling it out in a book? Maybe many books in case we are too dense to catch it all in one book. We'll put them in a Library or Biblios (Bible) becuase we find the truths in the precious and help us know God.
Q2-Why do people need Bibles?
A-to supply the answer to Q1
his point is that even though they called themselves Christians doesn't mean they were.
If I call myself vegan why is that? Beucase I do not eat meat or meat products. But what if I call myself vegan and eat a hamburger?
He's right christian ideals do not allow for rape and plunder. But what if someone calls themself a christian and does that anyway?
The trick is to babble loudly all the time, whether or not you have anything to say. /. posters could give pointers here.
No doubt some
I have a new sig, thanks....
okay, don't mean to troll. I'm just cranky these days with second rate mock news humor. I don't mean to take it out on you individualy.
you should its pretty funny, sounds like your sight could use some of that...
hahahah
no problem. Ripping off might have been harsh, if anything it suffered (where ever he/she got it from) from being an overplayed joke.
I kept looking but I didn't see a pony in that pile of horse maneure...
Seriously though, someday you might meet me in person. Until then my friends and I will have a laugh that someone considered me less than a Don-Quixote idealist.
*sigh*
you really should check out your facts before spouting off. really, canyonero has nothing to do with the simpsons...
Its an old Simpsons thing. I can't remember the role it played in the episode, but the mock commercial at the end was hilareous (sp). Even though I really enjoy Suburbans.
I have a Ford Festiva (aka kia Pride) from the same year. Its at 190k+. But then I did have to rebuild the transmission about 3k ago. The engine shows no signs of giving up, and the heads still barely leak oil. The main seal in the back is leaking more, but most of it is leaked from the oil pan due to a mistake on my part where I stripped the threads on the block overtightening it. I know of two (personaly seen) 200k+ festivas. Now quit complaining on a trademark.
seems you stole most of your material. *sigh*
I am JellyFish, Extremely dangerous if I happen to drift into you, I will cause your skin to burn with pain!
Geeks think that not playing popularity games makes them superior. It doesn't. I've watched my nephew and nieces lately and they show some very geek like traits, smart, decisive and etc...
But where that all shuts down is where they think that the world must conform to their genius. They'll enter into a (for them) logical debate which essentially assails their opponents with many accusing remarks and then when the kids are mean to them they use that as further justification of their own morality. This about got them beat up at a park when they thought that it was fair that they owned something becuase they were playing with it first. When trying to help them understand that at playgrounds we share things they thought that the other kids were just being mean and selfish for not respecting their right to play with it.
All in all, most of the problems suffered by geeks work in that same pattern. I know I was like that, and suffered social rejection harshly becuase of that. It wasn't until I learned that I wasn't special and everyone had rights and feelings as legitimat as mine that I got along and got more friends.