How ignorant can you get? You first state that you have avoided Linux for years, thus displaying your lack of knowledge of distributions like Ubuntu. Then you state there is a lack of simple install packages again showing your lack of knowledge as you obviously have never seen apt-get or Click 'n Run. Honestly, why bother posting??
I have to disagree, getting worked up is exactly what we should be doing. The more noise we cause about this, the more likely larger entities (companies, newspapers, governments etc.) will cotton on to what M$ is doing. I'm not worried about the future of OSS at all, Microsoft is out numbered and out gunned. Pretty much every major IT company in the world has some reliance on Open Source, what they gonna do? Sue the world? If we stir up enough support perhaps Ballmer will shut up and crawl back under his chair just in time to watch his company crumble under the law suits.
I'm probably totally wrong, but this kind of thing comes under interoperability (along with Samba, Mono and Wine). If Microsoft enforced patents on these things wouldn't it spark another anti-monopoly style lawsuit? They would be using patents to defend and increase their monopoly.
No you don't need a copy of Windows. The whole point of the WINE project is to develop a reimplementation of the Windows API without any M$ code in it. You CAN use official MS DLL's with Wine if the Wine implementations aren't up to scratch, in that case you need a Windows license.
Wine's own code is improving remarkably quickly, especially the DX side of things which is now mostly implemented up to DX9 and DX10 is being started as part of the Google Summer of Code. Yeh most things need tweaking and some things don't work, but its definitely improving. Each Wine update more of my Windows games work.
If anyone knows any C it is really worth taking a look at the Wine code, its really quite impressive what they have achieved and to get an idea of how fast development is going take a look at the Wine changelog or sign up to the mailing list.
Regarding the decision not to include Wine with Ubuntu, its a good call. Distributing Wine which is STILL alpha (and will be for a long long time) can only damage the reputation of Linux when desktop users can't run their Windows apps. This is no different than a standard Ubuntu install though and I very much doubt that there are gonna be specific DELL repositories (as has been mentioned in this discussion) or anything like that, it would just fragment the Ubuntu community into Dell users and normal Ubuntu users and ruin a whole load of HowTo's and FAQ's and make support more difficult.
If AMD/ATI open source the Linux drivers for their graphics cards, where do you think Dell is gonna turn when it comes to supporting Linux? Suddenly ATI will be worth buying again by Linux users, and Dell would be buying in bulk; pushing up AMD/ATI sales with very little cost to themselves.
Just some enlightening information:
D3D and OpenGL are APIs that allow programmers to use the features that a graphics card is capable of. If a graphics card is capable of a new feature it is made available by extending the APIs of OpenGL and D3D. OpenGL does keep up to date with these new features via extensions. Whereas Direct3D have regular (annual?) full releases.
D3D10 features such as geometry shaders ARE available in OpenGL via extensions. These extensions are normally first created by a member of the Architecture Review Board (e.g nVidia) and are given a name containing the creator (e.g. GL_NV_texture_rectangle, NV = nVidia) then when these extensions become more standardized (used by a few members of the ARB) they are named with EXT for extension, and finally when accepted by the Architecture Review Board they are named with ARB. At this stage they are official extensions, then normally with the next release they are moved into the core of OpenGL.
This is where people get confused and say "OpenGL is so far behind D3D", what they don't realize is that OpenGL has the extensions mechanism. You tend to find people use the D3D version as a label for a cards feature-set for 2 reasons:
1. There normally isn't an official OpenGL version with new features till a while after the release (extensions don't contribute to a version number)
2. Windows users wouldn't even know what OpenGL is, whereas M$ use DX versions as a selling point
3. Most game developers (unfortunately for us non-windows users) use DX and label their games with it
Anyway back to the point in hand, OpenGL is used on far more platforms than D3D and so graphics manufacturers will not stop supporting it doing so would stop all of these platforms (including linux and OSX) using new 3D features.
Disclaimer - All of the above is they way I believe that OpenGL/D3D releases work, I don't know what has changed since OpenGL was taken over by the Khronos group or whatever. If I'm wrong about anything correct me!
A PC is too small when it can't run Windows Vista
Well I'm glad to say my PC isn't too small then, just need to find a rucksack big enough for the tower;)
The only thing that really is disappointing me about the ATI proprietary drivers is the lack of composite support! Even the open source drivers have this, hell my crappy work Matrox card can run AIGLX/beryl. The open source drivers are great but don't have enough functionality (or speed) for what I wanna do, the ATI ones do, but I cant use the nice desktop eye candy I'd like.
I thought when they started to do monthly releases, this would be one of the first things they'd implement... I'm still waiting.
Slashdot Mirror
How ignorant can you get? You first state that you have avoided Linux for years, thus displaying your lack of knowledge of distributions like Ubuntu. Then you state there is a lack of simple install packages again showing your lack of knowledge as you obviously have never seen apt-get or Click 'n Run. Honestly, why bother posting??
I have to disagree, getting worked up is exactly what we should be doing. The more noise we cause about this, the more likely larger entities (companies, newspapers, governments etc.) will cotton on to what M$ is doing. I'm not worried about the future of OSS at all, Microsoft is out numbered and out gunned. Pretty much every major IT company in the world has some reliance on Open Source, what they gonna do? Sue the world? If we stir up enough support perhaps Ballmer will shut up and crawl back under his chair just in time to watch his company crumble under the law suits.
I'm probably totally wrong, but this kind of thing comes under interoperability (along with Samba, Mono and Wine). If Microsoft enforced patents on these things wouldn't it spark another anti-monopoly style lawsuit? They would be using patents to defend and increase their monopoly.
No you don't need a copy of Windows. The whole point of the WINE project is to develop a reimplementation of the Windows API without any M$ code in it. You CAN use official MS DLL's with Wine if the Wine implementations aren't up to scratch, in that case you need a Windows license.
Wine's own code is improving remarkably quickly, especially the DX side of things which is now mostly implemented up to DX9 and DX10 is being started as part of the Google Summer of Code. Yeh most things need tweaking and some things don't work, but its definitely improving. Each Wine update more of my Windows games work.
If anyone knows any C it is really worth taking a look at the Wine code, its really quite impressive what they have achieved and to get an idea of how fast development is going take a look at the Wine changelog or sign up to the mailing list.
Regarding the decision not to include Wine with Ubuntu, its a good call. Distributing Wine which is STILL alpha (and will be for a long long time) can only damage the reputation of Linux when desktop users can't run their Windows apps. This is no different than a standard Ubuntu install though and I very much doubt that there are gonna be specific DELL repositories (as has been mentioned in this discussion) or anything like that, it would just fragment the Ubuntu community into Dell users and normal Ubuntu users and ruin a whole load of HowTo's and FAQ's and make support more difficult.
They aren't yet, but they will soon:/ 021213 / 1935222 / 1220231
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/29
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/13
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/19
If AMD/ATI open source the Linux drivers for their graphics cards, where do you think Dell is gonna turn when it comes to supporting Linux? Suddenly ATI will be worth buying again by Linux users, and Dell would be buying in bulk; pushing up AMD/ATI sales with very little cost to themselves.
Just some enlightening information: D3D and OpenGL are APIs that allow programmers to use the features that a graphics card is capable of. If a graphics card is capable of a new feature it is made available by extending the APIs of OpenGL and D3D. OpenGL does keep up to date with these new features via extensions. Whereas Direct3D have regular (annual?) full releases. D3D10 features such as geometry shaders ARE available in OpenGL via extensions. These extensions are normally first created by a member of the Architecture Review Board (e.g nVidia) and are given a name containing the creator (e.g. GL_NV_texture_rectangle, NV = nVidia) then when these extensions become more standardized (used by a few members of the ARB) they are named with EXT for extension, and finally when accepted by the Architecture Review Board they are named with ARB. At this stage they are official extensions, then normally with the next release they are moved into the core of OpenGL. This is where people get confused and say "OpenGL is so far behind D3D", what they don't realize is that OpenGL has the extensions mechanism. You tend to find people use the D3D version as a label for a cards feature-set for 2 reasons: 1. There normally isn't an official OpenGL version with new features till a while after the release (extensions don't contribute to a version number) 2. Windows users wouldn't even know what OpenGL is, whereas M$ use DX versions as a selling point 3. Most game developers (unfortunately for us non-windows users) use DX and label their games with it Anyway back to the point in hand, OpenGL is used on far more platforms than D3D and so graphics manufacturers will not stop supporting it doing so would stop all of these platforms (including linux and OSX) using new 3D features. Disclaimer - All of the above is they way I believe that OpenGL/D3D releases work, I don't know what has changed since OpenGL was taken over by the Khronos group or whatever. If I'm wrong about anything correct me!
A PC is too small when it can't run Windows Vista ;)
Well I'm glad to say my PC isn't too small then, just need to find a rucksack big enough for the tower
However, we British can continue bashing the French as we always have done :p
The link was working fine a minute ago.... now it just doesn't exist?
He's not making it up, why would he?
The only thing that really is disappointing me about the ATI proprietary drivers is the lack of composite support! Even the open source drivers have this, hell my crappy work Matrox card can run AIGLX/beryl. The open source drivers are great but don't have enough functionality (or speed) for what I wanna do, the ATI ones do, but I cant use the nice desktop eye candy I'd like. I thought when they started to do monthly releases, this would be one of the first things they'd implement... I'm still waiting.