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Will Dell Be Bad For Ubuntu?
vcore writes "Many people are excited for Ubuntu's upcoming release on Dell computers, and while it is certainly good news there are a few causes for concern. Very few details have emerged so far so it is not completely clear what impact Dell with have on the thriving Ubuntu community. But there are questions concerning support, logistics, pricing, and a number of other areas that are affected. From the article: 'Dell is in the practice of filling their computers with large amounts of "bloatware" and also all sorts of co-branding, but it remains to be seen what they will do with Ubuntu. It has been reported that Dell will be shipping a standard version of Ubuntu 7.04...'"
What happened to Feisty Fawn?
Like AOL was bad for the Internet?... Oh wait!
Ubuntun00b> I want to be able to install libxyz3.11...
D3lld00D > ME TOO !
Delltwat > ME TOO !
easier to remember and easier to pronounce.
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
...and as far as I can see VMWare has done nothing but good for Ubuntu.
The Army reading list
several weeks ago when rebuilding an HP machine with XP just got too frustrating and time-consuming. Threw in an Edgy install disk and it worked perfectly. Upgraded to Feisty with no drama. I've been using it exclusively for over a month.
How can Dell be bad for Ubuntu? Yes, I RTFA and I think most of the potential problems are non-issues. The update mechanisms can scale; Dell can help if need be. I can buy support from Canonical or Dell can outsource it to them if Dell can't handle it.
I don't really see the downside. I'd love to see a few completely clueless oldsters accidentally get one of these Ubuntu Dell machines for their first and only computer. Then we'd have converts who simply didn't know any other way.
Even a clueless newbie can figure out Feisty. Now, I think there's another Slashdot post I want to read.
it probably wouldnt hurt ubuntu to put it on the dell pcs- look what it did for windows
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
Dell will be as bad for Ubuntu and GNU/Linux as mankind's discovery of the wheel was bad for the wheel, or stone axes for that matter
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
No, it wont be bad for Ubuntu. It may be bad for any Linux Guru's around making them go prematurely bald by having them rip their hair out when some Dell customer asks them 'Wheres Internet Explorer?' or 'Does this thing have google?' or in the case of semi-knowledgeable find that they've activated the root account and are running everything from there instead of using 'sudo' (yes you can cringe now)
09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
+2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
I don't think it'll be bad for Ubuntu overall. Almost all PC vendors, not just Dell, put bloatware on their PCs, and that's one of the reasons they like Windows, i.e. the bloatware they want to distribute runs on it. That's why I always reinstall Windows after buying a new PC, and then install only the software I actually want.
they are giving such great support for windows already
... they just need a little icon "runs with ubuntu" and "runs not with ubuntu" and i wouldnt mind either
i cannot even install the generic ati driver for my card, although it would work without any problems - have to use those hacked omega drivers instead for it in windows, so actually this article is a bit of nonsense
what support does dell need to give for ubuntu?
answer: nothing, thats why we have those ubuntu forums
just install it on the machines and take care that graphics drivers, sound drivers etc are installed and activated and voila, ready to go
and let them install just so much bloatware as they like - if they wanna get kisses from me, they install a commercial video player for dvd and up
and depending on their other hardware like printers etc
Will Dell Be Bad For Ubuntu?
:)
As long as Mark Shuttleworth doesn't go and do anything foolish like signing cross-licensing patent deals then a big No, but I can guarantee the MS/Novell/Dell deal will be bad for at least two of those organizations. I leave it to you to figure out who exactly
davecb5620@gmail.com
The summary is pitiful. This is not a good/bad question.
Yes, Dell will have to make a huge infrastructure investment just to sell Ubuntu-equipped equipment. Someone PHB with authority at Dell will have to force the various departments to get this stuff done. Typical to a large company, it will probably be done poorly because change is rarely welcomed. It shouldn't surprise anyone that a linux-equipped Dell will probably be more expensive than windows.
There are two much bigger questions:
1. How will Dell structure Ubuntu sales? PHB's will, at some point, review Ubuntu sales and decide if it generates enough ROI to continue. How that ROI will be defined will heavily influence whether or not they stick with it. This is where politics meets the accounting department and decides the fate of this effort before a single unit is sold.
2. How will Microsoft respond? I'm thinking this is really more of a stick to beat Microsoft with more than anything else.
I don't really want Dell selling Ubuntu-equipped PC's. It will be bad for distro diversity.
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1) Exposure to something, whether good or bad, is good. More people will, at the very least, know what Linux is now.
2) Anyone who actually chooses to install Ubuntu over Windows will probably either have the motivation to try something new, or they'll already know what they're doing.
3) The FOSS community should be embracing and celebrating this. This is a huge step for Ubuntu and Linux in general. The general computing public is now seeing more alternatives from the big beast in Redmond. The more they see choice, the more likely they will be to choose - either now or in the future.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Dell supporting Ubuntu is EXCELLENT!
But, please, remain in contact with the mothership - Debian.
I've chosen to ween my regular free support requesters from their troublesome software, to eventually switch them to a Linux operating system all together.
First I've convinced them to use Firefox. I've gotten inconsistent results from users. But most are pleased. Next I've been talking people into ditching whatever mail provider they currently use, their ISP or Hotmail or whatever, in exchange for gmail. The results are generally positive. The last big hurdle for "average users" is a productivity sweet to replace MS Office (which I've found is rarely licensed anyway). OpenOffice.org works GREAT for about 99.99% of their uses and that last tiny bit can be done some other way. I've also personally had good results from Google's online stuff. But I haven't actually set anyone up using either of these solutions yet.
The last thing to do is install a free OS and let them keep using their existing apps and services. Personally I think that Google's solutions, Firefox, and Open Office are the best tool for converting troublesome 'computer dependents' to Linux, and eliminating the vast majority of our problems. The best part is, you can get them using all these options before you take Windows away from them.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
Unlike Windows, even Windows does not always expect to be rebooted after installing new software. Oh, he's using 7 year old software from Microsoft, forgot about that. Would be nice to note that statement is a very weak comparison in 2007/XP/Vista.
Part of the attraction of Linux has been that the user community consists of a select group of highly informed individuals. A few years back, only those "in the know" had heard of the OS at all. Even now, it primarily appeals to those comfortable with OS installs and compiles from the command line. The Dell support for Ubuntu lowers the bar considerably, democratizing access even -- dare I say it -- going so far as to turn AOL users into Linux users. This is indeed a frightening possibility to many, but I am convinced that Dell's support is a good thing and a goal that many Microsoft bashers have advocated but never actually expected to come to pass.
So now we must move on to the next battlefields wherein the truly geeky may differentiate themselves from the huddled masses yearning to break free of their (Redmond wrought) chains. Certainly some will fight bitter battles over which distribution is best. Others might even start using BSD, much to the Netcraft-troll's dismay. Some might even quit whining and start writing some code.
Okay, I admit that last possibility is far fetched, but one can idealistically dream.
Given one hour to live, the student replied: "I'd spend it with professor FP who can make an hour seem like a lifetime."
I just installed Kubuntu on my mom's new computer. She's 78. She simply gave me a list of the things she wanted to do with her computer (web & email, mostly). The only thing beyond the stock CD I installed was Firefox with Adblock Plus. So far, she likes it.
This is funny. Dell has only recently decided to acknowledge Linux (technically for the second time), and people already found something to worry about! After years and years of moaning and whining that Dell sells Linux, it's suddenly a possibility that Dell may be bad for Ubuntu.
I have a little folk tale for this situation, coming from Bulgaria where I'm natively from.
Peter was a very poor villager. He was saving some money to buy eggs and grow chickens with which to feed his family. One day he took the money, went to the market and bought the eggs, then headed to home.
On the way, he started thinking "nice, nice, nice, I have 4 fertile eggs, from those eggs I'll grow 4 chicken. Those chickens will give eggs, and they'll grow into chickens too. I'll soon have hundreds of chickens, and I'll buy a farm house to keep them in. Those hundreds of chickens will give me hundreds of eggs, which I'll sell, and I'll buy four cows. Those cows will have many calves, and each of them will grow into a cow and all those cows will give me lots of milk. I'll be rich, and buy a second farm for my cows and calves. I'll buy a house in the city, and meet with the mayor and all important people. People will recognize me on the street and say, hello Peter! That'll be great!"
And while he was thinking about all those things, he tripped in a stone and broke the eggs.
Have you *tried making Ubuntu's windows turn sideways 45 degrees so that they kinda look cool and overlap a bit? It takes *hours!
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
We've all heard the joke about how cars would behave if made by Microsoft, but how about if they were made by the Open Source Movement?
1. The car would come in a kit, and would have to be assembled by hand.
2. The instructions for assembling it would be free, but so poorly written you'd have to hire specialists, who would in the end cost more than a Microsoft car
3. The gearstick would be designed by EMACS fans. It would be powerful, and feature rich, but changing gear would be an 18 step process designed for a driver with 4 hands.
4. If the passenger wanted to read a map, he'd have to enter the driver's seat in order to get permission.
5. The steering wheel would be gone. In its place, an "innovative" interface designed by the Blender and Gimp teams, consisting of 2 dead fish and a broken plastic spatula.
6. Richard Stallman would insist the vehicles be described as GNU/Cars.
7. It would be broken into as frequently as Microsoft cars, despite it's much touted security claims. Joe Sixpack couldn't be bothered to lock the door on his MS car, and he can't be bothered to lock it on his GNU/Car.
8. In car entertainment would consist entirely of items cloned from Microsoft.
9. Your grandmother wouldn't be able to drive it.
With Ubuntu, although the default is GNOME, the end users still have the option of installing the KDE packages and get KDE working. Now what does Dell support do in the event that the end users are using KDE?
Because they're stripping out things like Wine. Yes, yes, I know the arguments about compatibility layers. The problem is that if you think they're not necessary, you haven't worked with people who are wedded to what they know. That happens to be most of the people who buy computers and don't modify them on their own.
Realistically, what Dell needs to offer is a copy of VMWare Player and a copy of Windows XP with the VMWare tools installed so that people can drag and drop their files between the two as they get comfortable. That way people can still use the software they want, albeit slower. They can then use Linux for everything else, and in time they may get used to it.
Dell won't make linux look good. Especially to the budget demographic they cater to. Dell sold my ex's Mom a pentium 4 computer, pre-loaded with windowsXP, with, get this, 128mb of ram. It ran slower than my windows95 pentium 1 box with 32mb of ram. She paid over a grand for it. They completely crippled a $1000 machine to save less than $25. They will do the same to Ubuntu. There is no way this will be a success for Ubuntu. Most people who want linux are going to pay the extra $40 that windows will cost anyway, and just install their favorite distro anyway. So sales will be terrible, AND the few linux boxes they sell will make linux look bad, as they will surely be crippled by Dell, don't even get me started with bloatware. The only place linux might come out ahead in this deal is if Dell can find some big corporate customers who want Ubuntu on the desktop. This is the one and only place this deal can shine, everything else comes out as a net negative for linux. I wish they would just leave linux alone. Let a company that cares about linux do something like this.
This is something I hadn't thought about before, but I wonder if Ubuntu is going to work with Dell to make what ever version they ship with be a LTS (long term support) release, or if Dell is just going to ship with the newest version of Ubuntu all the time? The last LTS release was Dapper Drake (6.06) and last I've heard the next release, Gutsy Gibbon, was not going to be a LTS release.
Like WOW, Halo, C&C ?
Guns are for wimps... Use a crossbow.. this way you can pin them to their chair when you go postal.
I'm a ninja?
Rot in hell you smug son of a bitch.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
$ sudo gnome-cups-manager
$ sudo make cups # Ubuntu has a bug in gnome-cups-manager
Maybe you could set up a system of download repositories containing vast collections of open-source software, and include with the distribution a GUI app which would make installing such software as easy as selecting it from a menu...
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
The people that have dismissed the ability of Linux to penetrate the desktop market have always pointed to apps that people need to run on Windows, reluctance to switch, etc. But the resurgence of popularity of Macs, something that makes me feel like I'm on a timewarp to 1993, shows that a large mass of people are fed up with Windows and just want a stable OS to do work on.
I hope soon we'll see all the computer-illiterate hipsters bragging about their Linux laptops and desktops.
...their hard drives are filled with trial versions of free software.
I suspect the whole sordid experience may cause only 75% to pay for the upgrades.
Microsoft doesn't seem to complain about bloatware, although it no doubt exaggerates the perception of Windows slowness and instability. Being bundled by a leading PC vendor will certainly put pressure on Ubuntu and any flaws inherent in the distro or introduced by Dell will receive much closer scrutiny. Its features will be compared head to head with Vista and MacOSX and I am sure in many cases will be found lacking. But the bottom line is, this is an unprecedented chance for desktop Linux to move into mainstream, flaws can be fixed and now Dell itself will perhaps contribute to making Ubuntu an OS of choice for an average home user. Would the maintainers prefer to keep the inflated image due to small but technically literate userbase? I surely woudln't.
That said, I recently had to repair our babysitters machine and I had trouble reinstalling XP due to BIOS issues. After many tries, I installed Ubuntu and she seems to be much happier with it than the original system.
I freely admit that I'm speaking from my own personal experience and that (clearly, otherwise Ubuntu wouldn't be so popular) they'll be putting an unstable OS on unstable machines. So now the people that didn't want vista but couldn't get XP will be enjoying the same level of stability that most windows users did back in the days of Windows 95/98FE.
This might sound like I'm about to ramp up to "this'll be bad for Linux" post, but to the contrary, I think it'll be good. If selling Ubuntu machines pans out well for Dell, which I believe will happen (although I think there'll be a lot of Moms and Dads out there that'll end up not getting what they're expecting) then there's going to be a lot of blooming developers out there hacking into the config files Ubutntu much the same way I did until they work their way up to shell scripting and will eventually want to make Ubuntu more stable, creating a long-term benefit to Ubuntu which will have spillover to the whole of Linux in general.
You obviously haven't tried Linux recently. *Ubuntu is stupid-simple to install, install packages from the built-in graphical package manager and use in general.
I feel kind of dirty using it because it's too easy. Like there's some gotcha waiting to bite me, but for all I can tell it just works.
How ignorant can you get? You first state that you have avoided Linux for years, thus displaying your lack of knowledge of distributions like Ubuntu. Then you state there is a lack of simple install packages again showing your lack of knowledge as you obviously have never seen apt-get or Click 'n Run. Honestly, why bother posting??
That's crazy talk! It'll never happen.
/me removes tongue from cheek.
"easy" depends on what you are trying to accomplish. The flexibility of my linux boxen, servers and desktops included, make it far far easier for me to use than any windows box I've ever had to use. This is mostly due to a couple of simple things:
These things require you be a seasoned programmer in windows. Not so with linux. This philosophy also extends to my linux desktop environment (I use ROX filer with Windowmaker). I can easily make things do what I want them to. Again, a relatively difficult task in the windows environment.
Easy:
1. There will be reliable market research on Linux desktop penetration. This means the start of a new startup/IPO bubble that will do much more harm than good.
2. The most important aspects of Free software that actually drive innovation will be abandoned for hybrids like Ubuntu. These hybrids will not support the Free software components. Look at Redhat for an example of how this works. They've got sort-of-free software and lots and more and more proprietary software that goes on top of their sort-of-free software. Please don't diverge from this point and start talking about their contributions and PR stance regarding Free software.
3. Free is not a business model. Mark is sinking a fortune into Ubuntu at this point and will expect to make a return on his investment at some point. After that, the Ubuntu honeymoon is over.
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I've been using Ubuntu for about a year now and the repositories have always been very fast. If many people actually do buy these Dells with Ubuntu preloaded, could it actually hamper my ability to perform updates?
I've often wondered if mainstream adoption of linux would actually be harmful to one of its best features (IMO).
I'm sorry, but you, sir, are an idiot.
Installing software on Linux is easier than on windows.
In Ubuntu:
Find Adept/Synaptic in the menu -> Search for Whatever -> Look through results and find what suits you -> Click install -> Watch the pretty bar. -> Find the icon in the menu and run the software.
In Windows: Go on google -> Search for Whatever+Freeware -> Look through hundreds of results, coming across a million shareware programs and adware/spyware infected ones -> Find the installer -> Run it -> Go through the long trailing installation -> Possibly reboot -> Delete the million icons it just made. -> Run the program.
OR
Spend ages walking around a shop (having to drive there) to find a CD you have to spend £40 on.
I have a friend who is 15. Uses the PC for average stuff. He got a PC, Win95, old one from his dad's workplace. I persuaded him to run linux after my number of talking to him. He did it himself of an alternate install CD (Not enough RAM for the live CD) and it went fine. He got it set up, even worked out how to fix his wireless card thanks to google/#ubuntu. He recently informed me he had just installed Ubuntu Studio, to my surprise.
He now would never go back to windows, loves free software.
If he can do it, anyone can.
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
Mod parent funny. Please.
I don't normally feed trolls, but just in case you're not...
U sing_Add_Remove_programs_in_Ubuntu
http://www.zolved.com/synapse/view_content/28021/
Is this simple enough?
This is a really good idea. The system could even take care of all the security upgrades for all of those installed packages!
Why would dell's plan to ship Ubuntu be bad? I don't think a lot of retards are going to be wondering "where's internet explorer" because said retards will just get Vista, the retard operating system of choice. The people that are going to be picking Linux as their OS either already use it or are mentally capable of switching. My father, for instance, just switched the computers in his house to osx AND linux after getting fed up with Vista (and not wanting to go back to XP). He has had no problem with either OS, and he only ever calls me up for help when he has some esoteric question about how Linux works.
Dell may even be able to make the situation better for the Ubuntu (and general linux) community by increasing the user base and potentially helping with drivers, funding, etc. After all, they have their precious reputation at stake and it is in their best interest to see Ubuntu succeed and improve upon itself, if only to make their own customers happy.
I have tried Linux recently. Ubuntu seems to be the only distro anyone is using these days. You do know that they had to implement those app downloaders simply because programs were a bitch to install?
In the 500MHz days, I tried Mandrake Linux, which I was told was "as easy as Windows". "It finds all your hardware and just works." After spending a month trying to get it on the network and talking to a Windows share (with some success), I decided it was just too difficult, like the previous post is saying.
That was then, this is now. I installed Ubuntu Feisty on 2 laptops and it just worked. All the hardware really was found and installing programs with--ready for this--the Add/Remove Programs menu option...is brain-dead simple. Connecting to network shares is just as easy as Windows. In some cases, I have gone to the command line to install something, but 99% of the time, it's just:
Ooh, that's hard.
The biggest problem was that I had to type in 3 command-line commands to get a wireless network card to work. But on Windows XP, I had to call India 3 times to do the same thing, so what's really easier? Hint: the command line was much faster...
Linux is no longer a frustrating command-line-ridden exercise for a Windows user. In fact, if you are already using Firefox and OpenOffice, which I was, you will find it to be very similar.
I have found Linux equivalents for most of what I do. Also, I have gotten many programs to work under Wine just fine. I haven't even found the need to install a Windows virtual machine yet, and it's been over a month.
All that to say, your comments are a little outdated. I thought the same as you did until Vista frustrated me so much that I gave Ubuntu a spin.
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
Try explaining that to your grandmother over the phone. It might be impossible in Win but frankly I'd take the inability, over having to spew out lines of commands. Dell will NOT sell systems with Linux on them. When ordering, Grandpa Joe will ask "what's a Linux". The Dell rep will reply "well, it's this different operating system". And grandpa joe says "what's an operating system".
God bless you. May you have such kind words before the judgment seat.
Ahh you Linux users just *wait* all day for people like me to make a comment like I did. Hah, so easy to get a rise out of you people, yet so easy to put you back in your place. Just cause some 15 year old wannabe hacker can install Ubuntu doesn't make it accessible to everyone. There are people I know who can't install MacOS, and that's pretty sad if you can't do that. What I wonder is, why is everyone using Ubuntu these days? Perhaps I've missed out, maybe Ubuntu is the distro that takes all of the BS out of Linux and makes it easy to use. It's been a hell of a long time coming - and should have come years ago - if that is the case. By the way, you Brits really pay out the a$$ for software if you're shelling out $80 for a program I could buy for $30.
- pricing
- support
- logistics
Overall I dont see real problems having new vendor to distribute Ubuntu.There is no pricing, you can buy support, but you dont have to. If there are more vendors to sell it, you have compitition, which is good.
Driver support will increase as Dell would be interested to have all hardware supported. As they limited the PCs they deliver Ubuntu with, this must not be the case. But new technology/vendors might be selected by Dell for good linux support.
There might be a higher load on mirros, but as Dell is interested in having good performance, they might sponsor or provide a mirror server.
That sounds like a good idea. Too bad a system like that would only work most of the time since there would probably be lots of software on the net that wasn't included, especially new stuff that simply had not been added yet. I can envision the slogan now: Ubuntu, it usually works!
heh, bad example of unsupported hardware
Years ago, I could have done it in 30 minutes or less. Just give a 5th of JD and the windows were absolutely guaranteed to be in various degrees of sideways and even upside down.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Dell is bunting my what now? :-D
Well, its not quite a mop, and its not quite a puppet, but man.. So to answer your question I don't know.
If I can make Ubuntu run as stable as a rock on my 6 year old Dell laptop, I'm pretty certain that Dell, in conjunction with Canonical and various suppliers can make a rock solid Ubuntu machine.
We aren't going to see an overnight revolution with this, either. But it will mean more users. Each of those users strengthens open standards, encourages more businesses to take it seriously. And it's a virtuous circle. The more Linux users, the more business gets involved, the easier Linux gets to meet people's needs, the more users come on board.
Everybody had the same objections about RH back in later 90's (just as they were starting). Yet, we see an increase in diversity, not a lessening. The more that Linux is adopted, the more diversity we will see, with a converging of features occurring over time.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Never fear. If Dell ships Ubuntu with crap, then the community will quickly come up with a linux version of the PC Decrapifier" that people use to remove the bloatware from windows-based Dell PCs.
Of course, I'd rather see Dell not ship the crap to begin with. But if the crap lets Dell sell me the box for 10% less, I'll take it with the crap and remove it myself. Or just wipe the box and install my distro of choice.
... I shudder to think of what will happen when all those new linux users try to plug in their printer (yikes!)
I would suggest running debian. It's far more reliable than ubuntu. Not as buzzy, but delivers the goods with much higher quality and attention to detail.
l er/
I like the NetInst CD. http://www.debian.org/releases/etch/debian-instal
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I've been poking around ever since the announcement, but haven't come across any information on which laptops will be offered. I'd probably opt for a Dell latitude D830, but I have a feeling it is only Inspirons that will be made available with Ubuntu. I'm not sure when anything is supposed to be available either - there was talk of a couple weeks earlier this month though. Is anybody speculating yet?
Dara
I wonder who will offer better support for the product.
Dell (lol)
or
The large collection of already "trained" users at one of the many linux forums.
This is the real challenge for Dell -- making sure that people who buy a non-Windows PC have realistic expectations. They might do this by having a linux portal for their sales page, which will then mostly attract people who already know about linux and what to expect.
But Ubuntu has two major challenges. A. Making sure that newbies who buy Dell/Ubuntu have a happy experience. B. Making more newbies aware that Ubuntu exists, and what to realistically expect from it.
A. is a holistic distro/community/communications challenge, and is already embedded in Ubuntu from top to bottom more than any other distro (except Linspire I guess). B. is pretty much all marketing, and could be done partly through Dell itself, with splashy pages introducing Ubuntu and explaining how it is not Windows.
Or Dell and Ubuntu could decide to punt on attracting to newbies, and just go with the linux sales portal approach, and just ride the existing ramp of slowly increasing linux desktop marketshare. That would avoid creating disappointed newbies and destroying linux's reputation by overselling it too early. But I find it hard to believe that would be worth Dell's investment.
So it leaves me curious to see if Dell will actually *market* Ubuntu, or just make it an experts-only option.
... Dell verifys the hardware to be compatable with the release of ubuntu that it ships with it's hardware.
Considering Ubuntu itself has a paid line of support....
I know you are trying (successfully, I might add) to be funny but if you want to install an application that's not in the vast repository it's another story entirely.
The app developers often feel that everyone knows Linux like the back of their hand and uses the same distro that they do.
I had an issue last year I was playing with Ubuntu, I was trying to install some software but it was designed for Red Hat, after screwing around with "alien" and some other tools I finally gave up. Now granted this was more than a year ago so it could be much better now but for Linux to make it in the mainstream installing any app needs to be as easy as it is in Windows, either download a single file and "run it" or insert a CD and follow instructions. (Disclaimer: I despise autorun and disable it on my own system but most users have grown accustomed to it or have never known anything else).
It's pretty amazing that a little woman in India can win the Nobel Peace Prize for working with the homeless and destitute, but a white American male is vilified while doing the same thing. There was absolutely no hate in anything Jerry Falwell had to say. He didn't agree with the homosexual lifestyle. but I am pretty sure that he cared for these individuals as lost sheep just as he did anyone who he felt were not walking according to Scripture. As I'm writing this, I just thought of a strip of Shortpacked I read the other day.http://www.shortpacked.com/d/20070502.html that talks about opinions. Just because you think it's right doesn't mean it is.
for example these.
I have a really elegant proof for Fermat's last theorem. If this sig was only a bit longer...
Ubuntu is brown and Dell is blue! Jeebus, how will they ever get over that hump?
Hmmm...Isn't Kubuntu blue?
>>Because they're stripping out things like Wine. Yes, yes, I know the arguments about compatibility layers...
Uhhh, why do I keep reading idiotic posts like this one all over slashdot? They arn't "stripping out things like Wine" they just aren't pre-installing Wine or VMWare or anything like that. Which, if you have ever installed Ubuntu desktop before, is EXACTLY like how everyone else gets it. So, basically Dell is just saying they are installing Ubuntu, with respect to Wine and VMWare, the same as everyone else gets Ubuntu.
What is the big deal? Did you expect Dell to start installing optional software that Canonical already has decided should not be installed by default? Where is the sense in that? And yes I do use Wine and VMWare very regularly and love them both, but all it takes is using these packages once before it is obvious to any non-moron why a first time computer using grandma who just learned how to use a touch-tone phone should not be trying to use Wine or VMWare.... They are the opposite of user friendly.
And if grandma thinks she is savvy enough to use Wine she should be able to figure out "sudo apt-get install wine" as well. If she can't figure out how to install Wine, then Wine is definitely outside skill skill set.
After two days of struggling to get a proprietary driver for an ATI X1300 card working with Feisty, I hope Dell can do some value added for driver installation. I am new to Debian based distributions, but not impressed by ATI drivers. I did get a crash course.
It's funny you choose to point out one very small thing of Jerry Falwell's life to hit on. And no, he did NOT believe that their "sin" was their very existence. Did he believe that homosexuality was a sin? Yes. Did he believe that homosexuality was a worse sin than adultery or greed or gluttony or slander or libel or gossip or murder or stealing or any of a plethora of things that are against the Scriptures? NO!!! Jerry Falwell believed that if you were about to fall into a ditch and he didn't say anything to warn you, HE would be culpable of your injuries. But he didn't just stand aside and yell out to those he believed were falling into a ditch. He reached out and tried to help them. If Jerry Falwell "attacked" groups, then give some quotes and solid examples. But if he just reached out to those whom he thought were deceived and needed help, recognize that for what it is and don't vilify him with quotes as I am seeing like he's "sucking satan's cock". It kind of proves my point.
At least Jerry Falwell didn't fund suicide bombers to go and blow up innocent people who disagreed with his beliefs. Dr. Falwell may have been a conservative with regards to politics, and he may have been expressive in his views, but I can guarantee that he didn't turn around and curse people and mock them and say that the world would have been better off without them just because he didn't agree with them.
He was an asshole, get over it. When he blamed America for 9/11 and said that we deserved it, he added
I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."
Not the adulterers, greedy, gluttonous (him), slanderous, libelous, or any of those other things you mentioned? What about people who got divorces? No? They weren't the cause?
The fact is, he claimed that he treated gays the same as all sinners (which is itself offensive, claiming they had to "turn" heterosexual), but in practice he never said awful things about people who got divorces or who were fat.
Dell installing Linux on anything is a very influential move. I'm not an Ubuntu fan, (preferring Mandriva and PCLinuxOS), but the fact that Dell is willing to put an alternative out there will do nothing but help Linux infiltrate the mainstream of the PC computing world. I personally have steered people away from Dell. I may have to rethink that.
"At least Jerry Falwell didn't fund suicide bombers to go and blow up innocent people who disagreed with his beliefs. "
Well, *THAT* sure is a high standard. . . .
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
Jerry Fallwell was responsible for promoting ignorance over knowledge in sex education. Think of the children!
Actually, unlike Falwell, I'm not an anti-semite, I was never pro-apartheid, and, while I adore the use of profanity to celebrate the passing of immoral bigots like Falwell, I've *never* said things like:
"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" (This was in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11/01 attacks, in which he blames these people for the attacks.)
"AIDS is the wrath of a just God against homosexuals."
"God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew."
Nice hero you've got there.
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under." - H.L. Mencken
Kind of difficult for him to be praying for anyone's soul right about now, what with the fire and brimstone he's choking on in hell.
But you can only launch the smallest of gliders without a powered aircraft to tow them (hang gliders). And you can only stay aloft if you follow the direction that thermal air currents are taking you. And they can't carry much weight. So, lots of fun, but not exactly what I'd call a practical flying machine :-P
My bicyles
"virtuous?"
no wonder microsoft is so angry!
I picked one example; there are others. He had problems with feminists, for example, and with the people who fought for the civil liberties of the people whose religious and moral views he disagreed with. Civil liberties which he himself, as a white male, enjoyed but was unwilling to grant to other humans. I am not picking on "one very small thing" but rather on a major problem with the man's character and moral fabric. He was not merely saying things to "warn" people, he was attempting to change the politics of the country in favor of his fundamentalist religious views, to the detriment of people with other views.
I personally don't choose to respond to his death with comments like the one about Satan, but I think that if you believe those comments somehow cross a line that Falwell himself didn't cross many times, you're wrong. There's more to obscenity than simply dirty words.
"God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew." --Jerry Falwell
How is this a problem? You can distribute
Have you ever optimized/compiled your kernel? (Does a bear spit in the woods?). All Dell has to do is optimize the kernel and drivers for each specific model. I used to do this, but after going to Fedora, it has become a pain to tweak things for maximum performance just the way I like it, then have a new must have kernel or release and have to start all over again. I would think that Dell would ship with the very best performing optimization, quick bootup Ubuntu.
1011 1010 1101 1100 0000 1111 1111 1110 1110
The reason those people don't switch and stay switched is when they aren't watching professional wrestling, NASCAR, golf or team sports on the boob tube they are playing children's video games. Windows rules in that market segment and probably always will.
Ubuntu will be bad for Dell. For the same reasons listed in TFA.
The Admin and the Engineer
Look, I will pay as much for a linux loaded laptop as the next guy will for a Vista loaded laptop and smile while doing it because I know that M$ isn't getting a dime of my money. Hell, I won't even buy an Xbox. I am just happy that I have a choice. That is all. Before, you really didn't have an easy choice. You had to pay the windows tax and that was that. Yeah, there was an article a while back that showed you how to get out of paying it since you were going to load Linux up on it anyway, but you shouldn't have to do all that. You should have a choice, even if there are few who takes that route.
Decaffeinated coffee is kinda like kissing your sister.
I'm impressed. you're a bigger sanctimonious liar than he was.
You can't come up with anything better so you have to bring up another religion? You sad little man. So go and blow yourself up. Dickweed.
I have been using Debian for several years now (before that Mandrake and before thea Redhat). I just installed Ubuntu 6.10 - it is hard to download software in Cambodia - way to expensive.
... er well get right on to exploring Gnome I should say. One day I will go back to KDE - Gnome seems a bit 'simple'for me.
Anyway - even though I prefer KDE, I found the Ubuntu install great. Everything worked.
With Debian, every little thing needs to be set up. Hotplug - needs to be set up. Music - my debian install never played music. I never got around to setting it up.
Ubuntu - it all just works right away. I could get to work
And I will probably stick to Debian for the servers. But for a desktop, particularly for someone who just wants to use a computer, I'd go with Ubuntu.
Better go visit shipit.ubuntu.com
You really need to read Elmer Gantry by Sinclair Lewis.
Falwell died a wealthy man. How did that happen? Pat Robertson, another of his ilk, is extremely wealthy. How does a pious Christian who cares only for others get to be rich? Mother Theresa, putting aside all the pompous bullshit spread about her, died fairly poor. Whazzup with that? Poor investment decisions?
Falwell was a con artist, not a pious Christian.
Sent from the iPad I found in your car.
Did the author even read the information about the agreement? It looked like his biggest "issues" were Dell handling support and training their staff. The information I read said that Ubuntu will handle the support. Obviously if it's successfull and becomes very popular Ubuntu would have to scale up it's update servers and support staff. I'm more interested to see what the systems will cost, how much of a discount will we be able to get over the similar system with Vista?
I have an old 700MHz 384MB Dell PC in the lab running XP with an older Nvidia AGP card and an ISA Sound Blaster 16. A tad sluggish starting apps but basically runs fine. Installing the XP driver for the SB 16 was simple: Control Panel -> add new hardware, etc.
Installing MEPIS 6.5.0.2 as a dual boot from boot.ini was cake, and loading the proprietary video driver speeded up Google Earth to the point it was usable.
Installing a driver for the SB 16? For a newcomer to Linux? hah! An hour later after looking through Synaptic and searching the net trying to find modules to "modprobe", etc. I gave up and installed Kubuntu 7.04. That came closer, but no go on the sound.
How many times have you changed your video configuration and watched X crash and burn and had to edit or copy the xorg.conf file to get it working? When a typical Windows user messes up their video and the driver won't load on boot XP automatically loads a plain SVGA driver and at least the user can use their desktop GUI and get on the net and attempt to fix their problem.
The Linux distros have come a LONG way in the past few years and are at the point where many John and Jane Average users can get by fine if they have a geek friend to help them. Corporate desktops? No problem. Smart kids? No problem. The majority of John and Jane users? Sorry; not there yet. Except for carefully tailored apps in the repositories, installing software on Linux is generally NOT easier than installing on Windows. Worried that you don't have the latest version of Firefox with the new security fix? Do a Help -> Check For Updates and automatically install the latest version. Whoops? You're running Firefox on Linux? SORRY, you'll have to wait for the package maintainers to include it, or become a geek and compile and install it yourself.
--
Peace be among the living, lest we forget the lessons of the dead.
I hope they ensure that the wireless works as it should without ndiswrappers. And Ubuntu needs to fix the random overheating of some Core Duo systems with the current kernel.
Does you read the first reason? Says because linux doesn't look like windows... I mean, Linux is not Windows!!, since I readed that I didn't follow the post, it's waste of time...
In fact, the best for Ubuntu is what dell is doing right now...
ghostbar page.
As long as the Ubuntu community keeps doing what it does and has the same culture / standards I don't think Dell will hurt the Ubuntu community. However, I imagine the Ubuntu community will have a hard time ignoring an 800 pound gorilla (Dell) when it is kicking and screaming in their living room. (Not to mention the more insidious ways of Dell leveraging its resources, but thats a whole 'nother can of worms for another thread.)
System > Administration > Printing > New Printer
Got that, Bill?
Would a person who buys a Dell and uses autorun really know a lot of software designed only for Red Hat? Ubuntu's repositories have so many programs that a newb to linux will be fine using those until they want to get technical enough to figure out alien or compiling from scratch. When I was a Ubuntu newb one of the things I really liked was that program installation is really easy. Even now I rarely use a program that isn't in the repos, so I don't think anyone new Dell recruits is going to have problems.
"What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
Hi Slashdot people. I'm new here so bare with me. I did a search for "Dell Ubuntu" on google and found this site and seeing as I've heard that the community is helpful, I though I'd ask here. I hope you can help.
I'm having trouble plugging my cup warmer into my Inspiron extreme quad gazoogle 9000 running Ubuntu and I'm not sure if I am doing it right. It never worked on windows, but I heard Linux is better for cutting edge. I went to the administraion tool in the menu and it says something about DHCP but I couldn't get it working. Any ideas?
Don't laugh. It could happen.
I don't therefore I'm not.
In the past ten years, only four attacks(I'm counting the number of planes here, it was all on one day) in the United States have been perpetrated by Muslims. However, thirty-two bombings against abortion clinics have been perpetrated by anti-choice* Christians in 2007 alone.
*When you start blowing people up you lose all right to be called "pro-life".
Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
First off, yes, we do get ripped off for everything. It's amazingly annoying. Not only that, we get everything later.
And as for waiting? Why do you have to presume just because I defended against an idiot means I'm a fanboy? Interesting. A fanboy comment would have been this:
OMGWTF LINUX RULZ!!!!!!! WINDOWS SUCKS!!!
I made a civilized argument.
As to 15 year old wannabe hacker? He's not. He's an artist. He tried to fix something electronic by running a magnet over it.
You read what you wanted to believe, put words in my mouth, and then used those against me. Won't hold up.
If I read through... Oh look, I haven't been put back. You never countered my argument. All you have said is maybe it has done what I said. I'm sorry, but you just shot yourself in the foot, and made yourself look stupid.
And on another note, you just said you didn't run Linux, and if the only reason you can come up with not to run it is there are incredibly stupid people, what exactly does that imply?
-- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)