...that reading from some link listed in this discussion, my impression was that Mr Godfrey did not post the message. Someone else posted it to make it look like it was from him. Therefore, people get the impression that he's some disgusting pervert. I certainly respect his decision to defend his character.
I wouldn't like to be defaced in front of the whole world.
Too bad there isn't a method of tracking who actually posted the message in question.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
So if I post a link to a web site that has a link to another site that has a link to a defamatory article, am I liable too?
I wonder what defamatory article they were talking about so I can judge what started this issue.
I think it would be prudent to do something from spreading defamatory remarks about someone, although I'm very sensitive to censorship. Considering how fast information travels, someone's reputation/livelyhood can certainly suffer.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I resent the fact that "[American] tax dollars are going into people's pockets for doing nothing more than blasting rockets off the surface of the earth so that we can take nice pictures."
Many overworked folks provide the scientists with the means to learn and explore. All of us use this knowledge to improve life on Earth.
As an example specifically for Mars, scientists began theorizing a "green house effect" on a planet when confronted with the question of where all the water disappeared to. Exploring only Earth to understand Earth is like researching a your cubicle or dorm room, assuming the rest of world is the same. That is a small and narrow view if you ask me.
As someone mentioned, NASA's budget is very small, less than 1% of the Federal budget. If anyone else thinks spending a few billion dollars on research is a waste of money, look at Holleywood. There is more money spent there for simply being entertained and making few folks rich. You can't do anything else with that.
With science, everyone shares. Some resources to look at:
I realize that when you are not involved with research directly, it is hard to connect the research with your own life. But believe me, it is very challenging (and rewarding) to help scientists improve everyone's lives.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I used the Advanced Search Form and just highlighted my state and clicked "Search". Although a listing might be useful, you can still get a listing of all the LUGs in your state.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
GMT is out dated. UTC is the more proper convention.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
GNU/Linux Pronunciation suggestion
on
GNU Inside?
·
· Score: 3
Pronounce GNU/Linux with the GNU being silent, so it would sound like "Linux". Now to solve the extra typing.
Seriously, I have to agree with other comments regardng "where to stop". I think my Linux installation uses more than just GNU. I use my VIM editor more than any other tool, so maybe I'll call my Linux VIM/Linux. After all, developers needed an editor to create the source for GNU.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I would be carefule saying most of the world runs on AutoCAD. Check there are many othe CAD packages available. The ones I hear most about are I-DEAS Master Series and Pro/E. I work in the aerospace industry, so perhaps they are not as popular in other industries. Although I understand Ford, Mazda, and even IOMEGA use I-DEAS.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I have to totally agree. My company has gone from UNIX workstations to NT, so that engineers do not have two workstations (NT for e-mail and MS-Word; UNIX for I-DEAS, another CAD package).
And I do know of one designer here that appreciates the distributed computing feature of UNIX workstations. It's saved his butt a few times. But that doesn't seem to sink in.
This is also a sticking point with some other analysis software that is available only on Linux, and HP computers. The HP computers are so damned expensive, we only have one which crawls due to multiple users. But to use Linux, we would have to have another machine for numerous engineers which would end up costing as much (with better performance I would imagine). And then there is the "support another OS" complaint. So far, the decision is to wait for an NT port which has been promised for the last two years. Yeesh.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Some years ago (3 or 4 years), I was shown a tour of a highly secured U.S. Air Force base. There was some talk about some of the security measures. I never observed this particular one, but to enter certain areas, one had to stand in a small phone booth size compartment (so only one person could enter) and then would have to submit to a retinal scan before the person would be allowed through.
It was discovered, using these devices, that a woman's retina changes slightly during a pregnancy. I guess more than a few times the poor trapped woman trying to get into the secured area would set off the alarm and immediately be surrounded by armed security guards. Supposedly, this was how some women first learned they were pregnant.
I wonder if this is true for modern retinal scanners? Either that or your money is safe if your wife is pregnant.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
...is to overlap area codes. In Denver, you must dial all ten digits. It has nothing to do with long distance (where you must dial a 1 before the ten digit number). To call my neighbor, I have to dial all ten digits. The two area codes that are overlaid are 303 and 720.
I think a better method of chunking groups of numbers is better than adding larger numbers so that someone can have 10000 numbers just to use 500 to use a previous example.
A quick look, I see that Denver is not alone with overlaid area codes. I guess I feel better now.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I wish I could set vim as my editor in Outlook and get rid of all of that extra formating. I hate seeing these large fonts in rainbow colors and other MS-Word formated e-mails. A coworker even tried to send me an e-mail with coloumns aligned to easy reading. It turns out Outlook reformats the e-mails as they are sent. It deletes certain numbers of spaces or something.
If Outlook would let me edit with my own editor and allow me to read messages in non-proportional font (without having to select it for each message) without having to use the mouse, I would be mildly happy. ~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I don't know of anything specific on the web. A brief search found the Defense Trade Controls website, although I don't think it is of much help.
My experience with ITARS is brief. I work at an advanced tehcnology company this is also a defense contractor, but my project is a government contracted sensor for scientific research. There are some foreign partners involved and as a result, I was warned to be careful of what drawings are hanging on the walls and what types of information I discussed during their visits. Similarly, my data is examined before I can forward it to certain countries even when the destination is to a co-worker. Nothing I do is close to being classified.
You may have touched on what I find confusing. You say that transporting a binary is still illegal. Two comments:
Isn't binary still a form of computer language?
Revealing a source code of an encryption algorithm (a munition as you stated), regardless of how incomplete it is, would be similar to me allowing a drawing to be visible, regardless how incomplete it is.
You are correct that it is important to have all the information. However, IANAL, so I don't understand the immediate legal consequences, which is why I bring up (or rather Bryan Ischo brought up) the concern in this thread of the general "free speech" interpretation. This seems to me to fly in the face of all other export restrictions regarding information.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
If you read the opinion, or even the first paragraph of it, you'll see that the primary point it makes is that the export restrictions constitute a prior restraint on scientific expression.
I agree, but does it make it okay to publish or otherwise make available to foreign nations the blueprints to build a laser to blind spy satellites or distrupt communications satellites? This after all is entitled to similar free speech.
I do not necessarily agree with banning encryption, but simply claiming "free speech" is not the answer and now opens up or at least questions some larger issues.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
It is my understanding that certain techonologies cannot be transferred to any foreign country irregardless of "who owns" the information. A company can develop their own high techonology sensor or detector using advanced procedures, but they still cannot sell or allow access to the information to foreigners without approval. It can be simple text, which everyone agrees is a protected form of speech, but it is still regulated technology.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
The consequences have not been thought through. It does not have to be top secret military plans either as mentioned above.
According to ITARS (International Traffic in Arms Regulations), I cannot reveal certain technologies whether in written, illustrative, and which ever means. I go to jail if caught. This is for technology that would be not very difficult to get in the U.S and does not have to be top secret or classified information.
So, is the First Amendment being violated? After-all, I most likely would be in a foreign country when sharing the information.
So the question begs to be answered, if the U.S. cannot restrict source code based on the First Amendment, how can it be illegal for me to allow a foreigner to see a schematic of my high technology unclassified work?
I also agree that encryption should not be banned from exports. I see the benefits of my secure communications and the worldwide growth of the Internet commerce more important. But at what sacrifice?
I do find it difficult to work with ITARS expecially when working with foreign partners, but I also recognize the danger of divulging information that could later bomb me at home.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Okay, if source code is protected by Amendment 1, what about this hypothetical situation:
How does this fit with my classified drawings showing how to build an advanced laser communications system? It's on paper and it belongs to my company. Why can't they publish it to certain customers? They are not selling the actual hardware, but the means to produce the product. So how is a government to regulate the transfer of advanced technology, based on the First Amendment?
I personally believe cryptography should be more available, especially for worlwide commerce over the Internet, but there are other issues I don't see clarified.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I haven't read the article, but I think there is one fine point that needs clarification. IMNAL, but I think a "certified" engineer who passes applicable tests shows competence in engineering and is aware of building codes and other regulations.
As far as programming goes, what formal codes or regulations are there? I don't think it is regulated. I don't see how it can be regulated. Ideas? ~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
And belive me, Space Imaging's investors put up way too much money to let the Pentagon commandeer a satellite that could potentially bring them very lucrative returns on their venture capitol. The Pentagon couldn't afford to pay these folks enough to shut them up. Besides, launch failures happen way too often to divert Occam's Razor to point to any other conclusion. The launch system is still the most risky and unreliable rung on the ladder to space. Given number of nearly identical imaging satellites on the way, it will be the launch systems that will sort out the winners from the losers.
I must agree with your comment above comment. The launch business is very risky no matter how many precautions one can realistically take. Part of the success will come from luck.
I want to point out that QuickBird 1 will be in a non-sun-syncronous orbit to permit customers the option of viewing at various times of day. I don't know the orbit drift to say it is possible to view the same location more than once in the same day though.
Incidentally, a good overview of the applications of remote sensing can be found at Earthwatch. I'm sure the other companies have something similar.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
There are restrictions. Obviously the companies cannot sell information to certain countries, not that you couldn't buy them and e-mail them Saddam.
The last hoopla I heard about was that Israel had some sort of agreement with the U.S. that American companies would not sell information regarding Israel. If this is true, I don't know why other countries don't have similar agreements. I don't know what the final outcome of this agragement was.
As far as privacy concerns go, I would be more afraid of airplanes flying above me than some satellite.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Earthwatch lost a similar remote sensing satellite, Earlybird, in Dec. 1997 I think. At least it made it to orbit. I don't remember the reason, but I think the batteries somehow drained too fast (some instruments were turned on too early or something like that) and therefore knocked out the comm system.
Fortunately it was insured, and the money is being used to finish the next generation satellite. Hopefully it will be successful later this year.
~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Yes. I agree with thanking Ronny. The high tech jobs that were created in the 1980s really helped boost the technology industry. Without that, I don't know what I would be doing today. ~afniv "Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Slashdot Mirror
...that reading from some link listed in this discussion, my impression was that Mr Godfrey did not post the message. Someone else posted it to make it look like it was from him. Therefore, people get the impression that he's some disgusting pervert. I certainly respect his decision to defend his character.
I wouldn't like to be defaced in front of the whole world.
Too bad there isn't a method of tracking who actually posted the message in question.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
So if I post a link to a web site that has a link to another site that has a link to a defamatory article, am I liable too?
I wonder what defamatory article they were talking about so I can judge what started this issue.
I think it would be prudent to do something from spreading defamatory remarks about someone, although I'm very sensitive to censorship. Considering how fast information travels, someone's reputation/livelyhood can certainly suffer.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I resent the fact that "[American] tax dollars are going into people's pockets for doing
nothing more than blasting rockets off the surface of the earth so that we can take nice pictures."
Many overworked folks provide the scientists with the means to learn and explore. All of us use this knowledge to improve life on Earth.
As an example specifically for Mars, scientists began theorizing a "green house effect" on a planet when confronted with the question of where all the water disappeared to. Exploring only Earth to understand Earth is like researching a your cubicle or dorm room, assuming the rest of world is the same. That is a small and narrow view if you ask me.
As someone mentioned, NASA's budget is very small, less than 1% of the Federal budget. If anyone else thinks spending a few billion dollars on research is a waste of money, look at Holleywood. There is more money spent there for simply being entertained and making few folks rich. You can't do anything else with that.
With science, everyone shares. Some resources to look at:
I realize that when you are not involved with research directly, it is hard to connect the research with your own life. But believe me, it is very challenging (and rewarding) to help scientists improve everyone's lives.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I used the Advanced Search Form and just highlighted my state and clicked "Search". Although a listing might be useful, you can still get a listing of all the LUGs in your state.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
GMT is out dated. UTC is the more proper convention.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Pronounce GNU/Linux with the GNU being silent, so it would sound like "Linux". Now to solve the extra typing.
Seriously, I have to agree with other comments regardng "where to stop". I think my Linux installation uses more than just GNU. I use my VIM editor more than any other tool, so maybe I'll call my Linux VIM/Linux. After all, developers needed an editor to create the source for GNU.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I would be carefule saying most of the world runs on AutoCAD. Check there are many othe CAD packages available. The ones I hear most about are I-DEAS Master Series and Pro/E. I work in the aerospace industry, so perhaps they are not as popular in other industries. Although I understand Ford, Mazda, and even IOMEGA use I-DEAS.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I have to totally agree. My company has gone from UNIX workstations to NT, so that engineers do not have two workstations (NT for e-mail and MS-Word; UNIX for I-DEAS, another CAD package).
And I do know of one designer here that appreciates the distributed computing feature of UNIX workstations. It's saved his butt a few times. But that doesn't seem to sink in.
This is also a sticking point with some other analysis software that is available only on Linux, and HP computers. The HP computers are so damned expensive, we only have one which crawls due to multiple users. But to use Linux, we would have to have another machine for numerous engineers which would end up costing as much (with better performance I would imagine). And then there is the "support another OS" complaint. So far, the decision is to wait for an NT port which has been promised for the last two years. Yeesh.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I'm actually sure if it was a retinal or an iris scan. If it was retinal, perhaps the iris scan is immune from changes during a pregnancy.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Some years ago (3 or 4 years), I was shown a tour of a highly secured U.S. Air Force base. There was some talk about some of the security measures. I never observed this particular one, but to enter certain areas, one had to stand in a small phone booth size compartment (so only one person could enter) and then would have to submit to a retinal scan before the person would be allowed through.
It was discovered, using these devices, that a woman's retina changes slightly during a pregnancy. I guess more than a few times the poor trapped woman trying to get into the secured area would set off the alarm and immediately be surrounded by armed security guards. Supposedly, this was how some women first learned they were pregnant.
I wonder if this is true for modern retinal scanners? Either that or your money is safe if your wife is pregnant.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
If you're looking for info on optoelectric computing, check out the research at the University of Colorado.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
...is to overlap area codes. In Denver, you must dial all ten digits. It has nothing to do with long distance (where you must dial a 1 before the ten digit number). To call my neighbor, I have to dial all ten digits. The two area codes that are overlaid are 303 and 720.
I think a better method of chunking groups of numbers is better than adding larger numbers so that someone can have 10000 numbers just to use 500 to use a previous example.
A quick look, I see that Denver is not alone with overlaid area codes. I guess I feel better now.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Excuse me? Why would it be American? My first guess would be Finnish, re: Linus Torvaldes. After that it would be hard to categorize.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I wish I could set vim as my editor in Outlook and get rid of all of that extra formating. I hate seeing these large fonts in rainbow colors and other MS-Word formated e-mails. A coworker even tried to send me an e-mail with coloumns aligned to easy reading. It turns out Outlook reformats the e-mails as they are sent. It deletes certain numbers of spaces or something.
If Outlook would let me edit with my own editor and allow me to read messages in non-proportional font (without having to select it for each message) without having to use the mouse, I would be mildly happy.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
My experience with ITARS is brief. I work at an advanced tehcnology company this is also a defense contractor, but my project is a government contracted sensor for scientific research. There are some foreign partners involved and as a result, I was warned to be careful of what drawings are hanging on the walls and what types of information I discussed during their visits. Similarly, my data is examined before I can forward it to certain countries even when the destination is to a co-worker. Nothing I do is close to being classified.
You may have touched on what I find confusing. You say that transporting a binary is still illegal. Two comments:
You are correct that it is important to have all the information. However, IANAL, so I don't understand the immediate legal consequences, which is why I bring up (or rather Bryan Ischo brought up) the concern in this thread of the general "free speech" interpretation. This seems to me to fly in the face of all other export restrictions regarding information.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
If you read the opinion, or even the first paragraph of it, you'll see that the primary point it makes is that the export restrictions constitute a prior restraint on scientific expression.
I agree, but does it make it okay to publish or otherwise make available to foreign nations the blueprints to build a laser to blind spy satellites or distrupt communications satellites? This after all is entitled to similar free speech.
I do not necessarily agree with banning encryption, but simply claiming "free speech" is not the answer and now opens up or at least questions some larger issues.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
It is my understanding that certain techonologies cannot be transferred to any foreign country irregardless of "who owns" the information. A company can develop their own high techonology sensor or detector using advanced procedures, but they still cannot sell or allow access to the information to foreigners without approval. It can be simple text, which everyone agrees is a protected form of speech, but it is still regulated technology.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
The consequences have not been thought through. It does not have to be top secret military plans either as mentioned above.
According to ITARS (International Traffic in Arms Regulations), I cannot reveal certain technologies whether in written, illustrative, and which ever means. I go to jail if caught. This is for technology that would be not very difficult to get in the U.S and does not have to be top secret or classified information.
So, is the First Amendment being violated? After-all, I most likely would be in a foreign country when sharing the information.
So the question begs to be answered, if the U.S. cannot restrict source code based on the First Amendment, how can it be illegal for me to allow a foreigner to see a schematic of my high technology unclassified work?
I also agree that encryption should not be banned from exports. I see the benefits of my secure communications and the worldwide growth of the Internet commerce more important. But at what sacrifice?
I do find it difficult to work with ITARS expecially when working with foreign partners, but I also recognize the danger of divulging information that could later bomb me at home.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Okay, if source code is protected by Amendment 1, what about this hypothetical situation:
How does this fit with my classified drawings showing how to build an advanced laser communications system? It's on paper and it belongs to my company. Why can't they publish it to certain customers? They are not selling the actual hardware, but the means to produce the product. So how is a government to regulate the transfer of advanced technology, based on the First Amendment?
I personally believe cryptography should be more available, especially for worlwide commerce over the Internet, but there are other issues I don't see clarified.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
I haven't read the article, but I think there is one fine point that needs clarification. IMNAL, but I think a "certified" engineer who passes applicable tests shows competence in engineering and is aware of building codes and other regulations.
As far as programming goes, what formal codes or regulations are there? I don't think it is regulated. I don't see how it can be regulated. Ideas?
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
...and then formed Microsoft.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
And belive me, Space Imaging's investors put up way too much money to let the Pentagon commandeer a satellite that could potentially bring them very lucrative returns on their venture capitol. The Pentagon couldn't afford to pay these folks enough to shut them up. Besides, launch failures happen way too often to divert Occam's Razor to point to any other conclusion. The launch system is still the most risky and unreliable rung on the ladder to space. Given number of nearly identical imaging satellites on the way, it will be the launch systems that will sort out the winners from the losers.
I must agree with your comment above comment. The launch business is very risky no matter how many precautions one can realistically take. Part of the success will come from luck.
I want to point out that QuickBird 1 will be in a non-sun-syncronous orbit to permit customers the option of viewing at various times of day. I don't know the orbit drift to say it is possible to view the same location more than once in the same day though.
Incidentally, a good overview of the applications of remote sensing can be found at Earthwatch. I'm sure the other companies have something similar.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
There are restrictions. Obviously the companies cannot sell information to certain countries, not that you couldn't buy them and e-mail them Saddam.
The last hoopla I heard about was that Israel had some sort of agreement with the U.S. that American companies would not sell information regarding Israel. If this is true, I don't know why other countries don't have similar agreements. I don't know what the final outcome of this agragement was.
As far as privacy concerns go, I would be more afraid of airplanes flying above me than some satellite.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Earthwatch lost a similar remote sensing satellite, Earlybird, in Dec. 1997 I think. At least it made it to orbit. I don't remember the reason, but I think the batteries somehow drained too fast (some instruments were turned on too early or something like that) and therefore knocked out the comm system.
Fortunately it was insured, and the money is being used to finish the next generation satellite. Hopefully it will be successful later this year.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"
Yes. I agree with thanking Ronny. The high tech jobs that were created in the 1980s really helped boost the technology industry. Without that, I don't know what I would be doing today.
~afniv
"Man könnte froh sein, wenn die Luft so rein wäre wie das Bier"