I don't think the point is that it's a novel idea. The point is that mozilla is in it for your freedom. And while webos didn't slaghter the marketplace, it's not like everyone else is saying this web thing is not the shit. They're all saying it's the shit, aren't they.
Hence we might need for there to be a b2g, lest control of the information and communication technology is yoinked away fro us.
Dude, put down the Mozilla Kool-Aid, ease back on the weed.
Do you know what the generic name of the "Mozilla Kool-Aid" is? It's "Freedom". Sometimes also known as "Power to the people".
Even if browser vendor this, that or the other makes theirs faster/leaner/shinier, none of them is on a mission from Good, which is what Mozilla is. That is the greatest value of Firefox/Iceweasel, unless I'm mistaken.
And weed? Are you implying one should not think about abstract beautiful things like the future of freedom or what are the hippie-love-ideas one should not dream about, in your opinion?
Nokia sure did mess up royally with Maemo. What I was answering was the comment to think about the before and after of the iPhone. And what I meant was that maybe Maemo would have been the next great thing albeit a bit later if it wasn't for the iPhone (which it should have been despite the iPhone, but Nokia didn't realize what they potentially had). On the other hand, Nokia might have found exiting new ways of missing the opportunity, so speculating in alternate history is kind of pointless.
Anyway... Free as in freedom is the future even if it takes a few more swings of the pendulum to get there.
You mean, blackberry clones or something like openmoko?
Fact is, everybody copied apple for a reason. It was - and still seems to be - what people wanted. Some history lessons wouldn't hurt, as this is seems to be the pattern for a bit more than 30 years already.
When I said "maemo debian gnu/linux" I was referring to the operating system named Maemo, which is built on Debian with GNU and the Linux kernel, running since 2005 on the nokia 770 and later updated versions on the n800, n810 and n900, now morphed into Meego on the N9.
You're probably trolling to see if anyone would feed you if you take several sane and right positions and say the exact opposite, but still...
Also think 1 second (if you can) what the mobile phone / smartphone sector looked like BEFORE the iPhone and AFTER the iPhone.
The iPhone was slick in a few ways, but that doesn't mean smartphones wouldn't have gotten slicker without it. Maybe we'd all be running maemo debian gnu/linux on our phones today if it weren't for the iPhone. Instead of a forced walled garden filled at the moral and anti-competitive urges of apple, we'd all be free in a few more ways.
If we want any degree of personal safety from each other we unfortunately need a police state to keep the lower class trash in line.
No you don't. The only thing that will work is to even the socio-economic gap between the haves and the have nots. Raise taxes, give everyone more, better and cheaper health care and education and other services and more disposable income.
With more equality, everyone is happier, according to studies. You don't need to fear the poor people anymore and they will not have as much reason to be violent criminals. Everyone wins if everyone sees society as more fair.
I think going the police state route, while in theory doable (if you can pay for it, you can have enough police), will make you less happy even if it works (well, maybe not you specifically, but rich people in general, at least).
But I think you might not afford it. There are a lot of poor people to keep down and the tighter you try to pin them down, the more pissed they'll be.
I tend to do that. I erroneously expect people to get my meaning. Depending on the setting, I should of course adapt the rhetoric, lest it be counterproductive. I have trouble not being a hyperbolic punk, but I'll try to work on restraining myself a bit sometimes.
I appreciate your objections. I shouldn't and wouldn't want to forcefully enforce my opinions, as that would indeed be very oppressive.
The difference between me and a multinational corporation is that the balance of power is skewed. They are abusing their power of money and marketing and connections to make the world a more locked-down and proprietary experience.
I'm just saying I think that shouldn't be encouraged. I'm not even saying people are bad for wanting and buying apple. I understand that people are children of their times. In my opinion blame and responsibility shouldn't be put on the end user, when the big guys at the top are polluting the planet and exploiting the fact that there are people willing to sell their labour in face of poverty.
Different freedoms clash. I would love to see the freedom to create hierarchical power structures by being rich and using lobbying, marketing and money reduced for the benefit of freedom of information, culture and people having a direct say in managing the world. I don't think the system where money gives the right to rule the world is optimal for freedom and democracy, even if we're all free to become super rich and to start our own mega-corporations.
And that RMS character, while in my opinion being right about that software should be free, sure is a scary and irritating type. I don't he should change, though. He can hold the extreme end of freedom mongering. I'm not living up to his standards. Maybe I should, just as there are plenty of other "right things to do" that I'm too lazy or comfortable or whatever to live up to, but they're all still the moral thing to do.
The world is full of temptations to prop up the current world order, to "suck Satan's cock", so to speak, in exchange for shorter term personal convenience. One can try to maybe just lick the tip a little bit, if going cold turkey seems unreasonably difficult.
It's not destroying all of the freedom all at once, obviously. I didn't mean to imply that I think I'd be renditioned to a tyrannical ally of Apple for torture by proxy if I went and bought an ipod. Sorry for the confusion.
Just because there are worse and more direct threats to freedom doesn't mean that the lesser and more indirect threats aren't chipping away at freedom a little bit.
I never said I was pro Android. I agree with all you're saying. Maybe you assumed I was automatically pro android for bashing apple.
I'm anti lockdown and pro freedom.
I'd say android is usually a lesser evil than iOS, but I've got no love for google or andoid, apart from any part that is free software, and even those parts can be tivoized, rendering the freedom of modification a dud in practice.
The model of incrementing the versions had long been incompatible (as far as getting reasonable numbers) with the changed development model. Since the development was now more like a steady stream of whatever features that happened to be developed instead of the old one where bunches of big features were released at once and less often, the mere silliness of a.39 release (as 2.6 had in practice become the "major" version (as opposed to major being 2 and minor being 6) with the aforementioned shift) and there being no technical route to justify incrementing the major version (whether one considers that being 2 or 2.6) as there was not coming any major features at any point, but steadily, whenever, the reason might as well be said to be "for the hell of it" or "because" or "because I can and wanna".
I agree it may be less of an oligarchy. There doesn't have to be an explicit conspiracy. An implicit conspiracy will work too. The people/entities in power will be pulling in the same general direction without explicit agreements. They're still fucking us just about as good as if they planned it over a cognac in dimly lit rooms filled with cigar smoke.
How about permits for potentially disruptive activities in order to maintain public order? Do you have a right to dress up as a large creature or do other deceptive things to disturb other people's enjoyment of the park?
Where to draw the line... This is not as blatantly disruptive and dangerous as yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre, but maybe something akin to yelling "water" in a more sparsely populated theatre?
I'm leaning towards that it should be allowed to dress up as bigfoot. That should be the issue. Getting at it from the filming with the camcorder perspective is not nice, imo.
That's a good start. For immediate privacy concerns, at least. What would be needed going forward is a search where users are in control of the algorithms and the infrastructure. A non-profit community project. It would be huge of course, but pretty big community projects like openstreetmap and wikipedia suggest it shouldn't be impossible in the future when the magic of bringing masses of people together that the internet does has been working a bit longer...
Look. Marketing works. Otherwise it wouldn't be done. Money is power. Companies like apple can use their power of marketing and power of money to shape the world as they see fit. They are shaping the world into one of for example vendor lock-in and closed source software.
My idea of freedom is in part constructed by a notion of there being access to source code. When a hugely more influential entity than myself is shaping the world into one where people are influenced by marketing to give money to and buy products from a company that pushes proprietary software, it hampers the social movement of software/information/cultural freedom. That's, off the top of my head, an explanation of how they are destroying freedom.
The biggest problem is of course the system that encourages greed, closedness and lock-in, and the masses of consumers consume what they are told to consume by marketing, but at least one can state on an online forum every once in a while that open is good - closed bad.
Actually I agree that they are not evil. I don't believe in evil. I believe acts can be good or bad. Vendor lock-in and destruction of freedom are bad things. Apple is just a legal entity for maximizing profit. It's the whole god damn system that is out of order.
People shouldn't give money to entities (albeit non-living and amoral) that do bad things like destroying freedom.
>Fine. I'll buy all my gadgets from you instead. May I see your brochure?
My gadgets are widely available on ebay in all shapes and sizes. I don't know where I put all of my brochures. Here's one of them: https://sourceforge.net/
You may have a point. Do you think I should have been more subtle or do you think my statement is wrong?
As for being a whore/troll I was definitely thinking it would go down as a troll, but I thought that sometimes the truth may sound trollish if you don't make an effort to sugarcoat it and I also thought that sometimes chock treatment is the right way to go. Maybe others can put it more eloquently and civilly...
I understand that being in the eyeball-grabbing game, a site must post an avalanche of apple related stories especially around new or upcoming marketing drives, so I'll just state that I wish it wasn't so, that the site wasn't in the eyeball-grabbing game, but in the game of building a quality community. And I'll just leave a friendly reminder:
Take heed! Apple is evil. They are out to lock you in and to destroy your freedom.
I've also heard that both birds and human babies learn better from a voice more like a womans that that of a mans. Men can of course make their voice be more like that when talking to those, so it's not such a big deal.
Slashdot Mirror
I don't think the point is that it's a novel idea. The point is that mozilla is in it for your freedom. And while webos didn't slaghter the marketplace, it's not like everyone else is saying this web thing is not the shit. They're all saying it's the shit, aren't they.
Hence we might need for there to be a b2g, lest control of the information and communication technology is yoinked away fro us.
Dude, put down the Mozilla Kool-Aid, ease back on the weed.
Do you know what the generic name of the "Mozilla Kool-Aid" is? It's "Freedom". Sometimes also known as "Power to the people".
Even if browser vendor this, that or the other makes theirs faster/leaner/shinier, none of them is on a mission from Good, which is what Mozilla is. That is the greatest value of Firefox/Iceweasel, unless I'm mistaken.
And weed? Are you implying one should not think about abstract beautiful things like the future of freedom or what are the hippie-love-ideas one should not dream about, in your opinion?
Yes, not so much GNU in the Android.
Nokia sure did mess up royally with Maemo. What I was answering was the comment to think about the before and after of the iPhone. And what I meant was that maybe Maemo would have been the next great thing albeit a bit later if it wasn't for the iPhone (which it should have been despite the iPhone, but Nokia didn't realize what they potentially had). On the other hand, Nokia might have found exiting new ways of missing the opportunity, so speculating in alternate history is kind of pointless.
Anyway... Free as in freedom is the future even if it takes a few more swings of the pendulum to get there.
You mean, blackberry clones or something like openmoko?
Fact is, everybody copied apple for a reason. It was - and still seems to be - what people wanted. Some history lessons wouldn't hurt, as this is seems to be the pattern for a bit more than 30 years already.
When I said "maemo debian gnu/linux" I was referring to the operating system named Maemo, which is built on Debian with GNU and the Linux kernel, running since 2005 on the nokia 770 and later updated versions on the n800, n810 and n900, now morphed into Meego on the N9.
Dang... Where did I put my quote tags? What I meant was for there to be a quoted part, like so:
Also think 1 second (if you can) what the mobile phone / smartphone sector looked like BEFORE the iPhone and AFTER the iPhone.
You're probably trolling to see if anyone would feed you if you take several sane and right positions and say the exact opposite, but still...
Also think 1 second (if you can) what the mobile phone / smartphone sector looked like BEFORE the iPhone and AFTER the iPhone.
The iPhone was slick in a few ways, but that doesn't mean smartphones wouldn't have gotten slicker without it. Maybe we'd all be running maemo debian gnu/linux on our phones today if it weren't for the iPhone. Instead of a forced walled garden filled at the moral and anti-competitive urges of apple, we'd all be free in a few more ways.
If we want any degree of personal safety from each other we unfortunately need a police state to keep the lower class trash in line.
No you don't. The only thing that will work is to even the socio-economic gap between the haves and the have nots. Raise taxes, give everyone more, better and cheaper health care and education and other services and more disposable income.
With more equality, everyone is happier, according to studies. You don't need to fear the poor people anymore and they will not have as much reason to be violent criminals. Everyone wins if everyone sees society as more fair.
I think going the police state route, while in theory doable (if you can pay for it, you can have enough police), will make you less happy even if it works (well, maybe not you specifically, but rich people in general, at least).
But I think you might not afford it. There are a lot of poor people to keep down and the tighter you try to pin them down, the more pissed they'll be.
I tend to do that. I erroneously expect people to get my meaning. Depending on the setting, I should of course adapt the rhetoric, lest it be counterproductive. I have trouble not being a hyperbolic punk, but I'll try to work on restraining myself a bit sometimes.
I appreciate your objections. I shouldn't and wouldn't want to forcefully enforce my opinions, as that would indeed be very oppressive.
The difference between me and a multinational corporation is that the balance of power is skewed. They are abusing their power of money and marketing and connections to make the world a more locked-down and proprietary experience.
I'm just saying I think that shouldn't be encouraged. I'm not even saying people are bad for wanting and buying apple. I understand that people are children of their times. In my opinion blame and responsibility shouldn't be put on the end user, when the big guys at the top are polluting the planet and exploiting the fact that there are people willing to sell their labour in face of poverty.
Different freedoms clash. I would love to see the freedom to create hierarchical power structures by being rich and using lobbying, marketing and money reduced for the benefit of freedom of information, culture and people having a direct say in managing the world. I don't think the system where money gives the right to rule the world is optimal for freedom and democracy, even if we're all free to become super rich and to start our own mega-corporations.
And that RMS character, while in my opinion being right about that software should be free, sure is a scary and irritating type. I don't he should change, though. He can hold the extreme end of freedom mongering. I'm not living up to his standards. Maybe I should, just as there are plenty of other "right things to do" that I'm too lazy or comfortable or whatever to live up to, but they're all still the moral thing to do.
The world is full of temptations to prop up the current world order, to "suck Satan's cock", so to speak, in exchange for shorter term personal convenience. One can try to maybe just lick the tip a little bit, if going cold turkey seems unreasonably difficult.
It's not destroying all of the freedom all at once, obviously. I didn't mean to imply that I think I'd be renditioned to a tyrannical ally of Apple for torture by proxy if I went and bought an ipod. Sorry for the confusion.
Just because there are worse and more direct threats to freedom doesn't mean that the lesser and more indirect threats aren't chipping away at freedom a little bit.
I never said I was pro Android. I agree with all you're saying. Maybe you assumed I was automatically pro android for bashing apple.
I'm anti lockdown and pro freedom.
I'd say android is usually a lesser evil than iOS, but I've got no love for google or andoid, apart from any part that is free software, and even those parts can be tivoized, rendering the freedom of modification a dud in practice.
So, yes, fuck Google too.
The model of incrementing the versions had long been incompatible (as far as getting reasonable numbers) with the changed development model. Since the development was now more like a steady stream of whatever features that happened to be developed instead of the old one where bunches of big features were released at once and less often, the mere silliness of a .39 release (as 2.6 had in practice become the "major" version (as opposed to major being 2 and minor being 6) with the aforementioned shift) and there being no technical route to justify incrementing the major version (whether one considers that being 2 or 2.6) as there was not coming any major features at any point, but steadily, whenever, the reason might as well be said to be "for the hell of it" or "because" or "because I can and wanna".
I agree it may be less of an oligarchy. There doesn't have to be an explicit conspiracy. An implicit conspiracy will work too. The people/entities in power will be pulling in the same general direction without explicit agreements. They're still fucking us just about as good as if they planned it over a cognac in dimly lit rooms filled with cigar smoke.
How about permits for potentially disruptive activities in order to maintain public order? Do you have a right to dress up as a large creature or do other deceptive things to disturb other people's enjoyment of the park?
Where to draw the line... This is not as blatantly disruptive and dangerous as yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre, but maybe something akin to yelling "water" in a more sparsely populated theatre?
I'm leaning towards that it should be allowed to dress up as bigfoot. That should be the issue. Getting at it from the filming with the camcorder perspective is not nice, imo.
That's a good start. For immediate privacy concerns, at least. What would be needed going forward is a search where users are in control of the algorithms and the infrastructure. A non-profit community project. It would be huge of course, but pretty big community projects like openstreetmap and wikipedia suggest it shouldn't be impossible in the future when the magic of bringing masses of people together that the internet does has been working a bit longer...
Look. Marketing works. Otherwise it wouldn't be done. Money is power. Companies like apple can use their power of marketing and power of money to shape the world as they see fit. They are shaping the world into one of for example vendor lock-in and closed source software.
My idea of freedom is in part constructed by a notion of there being access to source code. When a hugely more influential entity than myself is shaping the world into one where people are influenced by marketing to give money to and buy products from a company that pushes proprietary software, it hampers the social movement of software/information/cultural freedom. That's, off the top of my head, an explanation of how they are destroying freedom.
The biggest problem is of course the system that encourages greed, closedness and lock-in, and the masses of consumers consume what they are told to consume by marketing, but at least one can state on an online forum every once in a while that open is good - closed bad.
Oh, and "nerd rage"? I'll have you know that I said fuck in a really cool and somber demeanor. Thanks for the nerd moniker.
Actually I agree that they are not evil. I don't believe in evil. I believe acts can be good or bad. Vendor lock-in and destruction of freedom are bad things. Apple is just a legal entity for maximizing profit. It's the whole god damn system that is out of order.
People shouldn't give money to entities (albeit non-living and amoral) that do bad things like destroying freedom.
Yea fuck Apple! We should all use Google products, cause you know they're honest and kind. Hooray for angry nerd stereotypes.
You are Apple's customer, you are Google's product.
Nah. Fuck google too. We need a free as in freedom search as well.
>Fine. I'll buy all my gadgets from you instead. May I see your brochure?
My gadgets are widely available on ebay in all shapes and sizes. I don't know where I put all of my brochures. Here's one of them: https://sourceforge.net/
You may have a point. Do you think I should have been more subtle or do you think my statement is wrong?
As for being a whore/troll I was definitely thinking it would go down as a troll, but I thought that sometimes the truth may sound trollish if you don't make an effort to sugarcoat it and I also thought that sometimes chock treatment is the right way to go. Maybe others can put it more eloquently and civilly...
I understand that being in the eyeball-grabbing game, a site must post an avalanche of apple related stories especially around new or upcoming marketing drives, so I'll just state that I wish it wasn't so, that the site wasn't in the eyeball-grabbing game, but in the game of building a quality community. And I'll just leave a friendly reminder:
Take heed! Apple is evil. They are out to lock you in and to destroy your freedom.
I've also heard that both birds and human babies learn better from a voice more like a womans that that of a mans. Men can of course make their voice be more like that when talking to those, so it's not such a big deal.
Thanks for that interesting tidbit. Times have changed quite a lot. Many remnants of the old ways are still permeating our culture, though.
sry... forgot to put quotes the quote, which was the first paragraph. Did not mean to plagiarize.