says the majority of growth is in the service, hospitality and retail sector.
Are you telling me that Wal Mart is paying people more money?
Or maybe it's the Government jobs that factor highly in the job growth, that is providing the best pay? Can't go wrong on that when your bennies are automatically covered... unlike (nowadays) private industry.
Or perhaps what you're really telling me is a handful of millionaires and billionaires are seriously skewing the numbers...?
That still means workers - paid by someone else or not - are your foundation. Where will you get your profits without workers? Where? What are you without a gainfully employed population? What are you then?
The Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that most of our nation's job growth is in restaurant services and retail jobs. How are you going to sell homes and cars to more and more people earning closer and closer to $6/hr (moving constantly down from, say, $8-10/hr)? How can that possibly happen?
You don't get it. If the American consumer spends less, countless businesses will die. Do you realize what this will mean to the economy?
American unemployment, when measured by European standards (and not US skewed standards) is barely a point lower than Europe.
Also, in the US someone is working but where are they working? Increasingly in food service and retail, mainly, which is why the term "underemployment" is so big now.
Is it the option that will deny you coverage to get a heart transplant or rehabilitative care if, on a whim, they decide you don't need one, and leave you to beg like a bum at the capricious door of some Christian Conservative charity (assuming you can get up and do so)?
Is it the option that is so repulsive to doctors because of all the paperwork (and the refusal of the payer to pay the doctors an honest amount for their work) that 10% of all doctors now require cash payments? (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/05/health/ main610269.shtml)
Is it the option that is completely avoided, shunned and despised by the entire civilized world outside the US and has absolutely no chance of ever being gaining a foothold elsewhere, no matter how bad socialized medicine supposedly gets?
Tell me again which option that is that you'd rather use.
Me, I'd rather not spend the rest of my life giving all of my income away (and the estate I plan to leave to my kids) to a hospital because one bout of cancer overran my insurance coverage and left me millions of dollars in debt. I'd just as soon leave this world and let my kids have the house instead of letting the hospital put a lien on it. Gee, I wonder which is the only country on Earth where this typically happens?
Socialized medicine spreads out the cost of medicine. This is why socialized medicine costs less per capita than in the US. Note that we're also competing with Communist China.
Your law of unintended consequences works both ways. Workers are severely underpaid in the US - our economy is now a low paying service economy, with better jobs going overseas. American students are shunning science degrees and more of those foreign born science brains - the foundation of our scientific achievements since at least World War II - are choosing to stay home now.
Consumer spending in the US is now wavering and personal debt is ballooning just to make ends meet.
Consumer spending is 2/3 of the economy.
Consumer debt cannot expand forever; this bubble has to collapse by simple laws of economics.
You need to make up for that with indefinite increases in credit, lower consumer spending, or higher wages. Simple facts of economics AND history there. Indefinite increases in credit lines is impossible; higher wages are not at all happening except for the wealthy few; which leaves lower consumer spending as a result of bankruptcies or higher oil prices.
The unintended consequences of laissez-faire policy allowing corporations to practice unrestricted greed is they will feed so much on their own base that they'll eat up 66% of the economy as the US continues to descend into a restaurant, tourism, and errand-running service economy that is a mere shadow of the world that existed in 1999 when anyone could enter the high paying tech industry and make something of themselves.
Now let's see you get any experience in **any industry** whatsoever without 10 years of experience. No experience, no job, no job, no experience.
Consumer spending will collapse. This is inevitable unless higher jobs are, in fact, protected. Fail to protect them and all you will have are Wal Mart jobs and the consumer spending that fits that kind of salary.
The service industry - namely, restaurant workers - is the fastest growing pool of jobs in America.
The higher paying, higher skilled jobs are going overseas.
Also consider these unintented consequences - with severe underemployment in the US, or severe unemployment in France, consumer buying power is crippled. Your company depends on customers. Take away their money and who will buy your stuff?
Workers are your foundation. Eat your foundation and what do you have left?
The fact that you're completely and totally wrong is part of why there is a decline in people even bothering to study computer science any more, except in India and China.
Now please, spare me your fake cowboy act. The only thing you are fighting for is your spot on your knees in front of your corporate masters who are pitting six billion people against each other for what is proven to be a shrinking number of jobs in the computer industry. (http://www.networkworld.com/careers/2004/0531mans ide.html)
Me? I'm in school for something else now. I'm abandoning the tech industry when I graduate. You're free to continue your "fight" for the suite room on the Titanic.
In 20 years there won't be anyone working for IT in your country or mine. Except for corporate Execs, of course. Or do you have another explanation for why there are now fewer people working in IT?
[I just read a story in the past 2 months about European drug makers outsourcing R&D to the US - not because of costs, but to get at better talent.] And what makes you think no one will look at those India Institute of Technology graduates? What makes you think the US is the only source of better talent?
We are seeing a drop in the number of American students enrolling in the sciences because they don't think a degree in those fields can pay their rent and bills. Where, then, is the talent coming from?
[The next "big boom" is probably Biotech. The US is also a HUGE exporter of services. If the US outlawed the import/export of services (so software jobs would stop going to China/India), the US would be the loser. Any idea the amount of engineering, research, civil design, and international legal work is outsourced to the US? What about R&D? As examples, do you know that both Japan's giant NTT and France Telecom run R&D labs in the US?]
And I bet you more engineering work is offshored from the US to elsewhere, than vice versa.
There's a reason why the US runs a trade deficit with the entire world. We're net importing goods and net exporting jobs.
Now exactly what services are we exporting, and how many jobs does that entail? Do you have any hard numbers to back this up?
Now I've shown you documentation about biotech being offshored. I would prefer you afford me the courtesy of backing up your claims with some hard evidence.
The problem is no one in the US will be making those embedded devices any more. People overseas will do it for pennies on your dollar.
You can be as creative as you want but you will never as long as you live ace someone doing the same thing for pennies on your dollar.
You never did refute the fact that the majority of new jobs, as reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, are low paying service jobs. Read the July 2005 report if you disagree.
Your twenty webservices and fist full of embedded devices will most likely be produced in Chinese factories and programmed by India Institute of Technology-educated 5 dollar a day graduates.
Change in this case means fewer and lower paying jobs.
There are now no more emerging industries coming. The tech industry is the last big job boom America will ever see except in the low paying service industry.
Plus we are now totally vulnerable to intellectual property theft and identity fraud against our citizens by foreign criminals who are inherently immune to FBI prosecution.
The cheese has been moved and there is less of it and more mice competing.
DOS mode unzip doesn't work on NTFS systems. It recognizes 8 character files and extracts only 8 characters.
This is God awful for when I have 200 zip files in one directory and need to unpack them all in a single run (as in, "unzip *.zip") instead of having to open and unzip each one with WinZip.
This analogy will fail when this new data center standard becomes a matter of enforcement, like those building codes that are created partially by taxpayer money but you have to pay a corporation a big pile of money just to look at them.
Corporate welfare at its finest.
Of course, these data center standards haven't reached that point, but who's to say they won't? It's being positioned that way. We'll see whether or not it ends up that way.
The danger in this is that Governments will soon be interested in alleging Al Qaeda or Mafia ties every time they bust an organized piracy group of any sort. Thus, they can justify punishing piracy with much harsher methods in the future.
Who'd have thought in the past that a single charge of mp3 piracy could land you in prison for as long as a charge of forcible rape?
Let us take identity thieves and put them in place of drug dealers to show the holes in your argument.
An identity thief has a 1 in 7000 chance of being caught.
If you fail to completely stop at a stop sign, what are your chances of getting caught?
And if a cop is writing you a ticket and some lady dials 911 because her ex-husband is busting down her door, who's gonna be there to respond for her? He's not going to tell you to stay put while he races off to save her life and then come back and ticket you. He's either going to finish ticketing you and bring a body bag to her house, or go save her and let you go.
Oh yeah and one other thing if cops were walking and chewing gum (busting drug dealers) at the same time, we'd have a heck of a lot fewer drug dealers out there than we have now.
[ I agree with your principal statement, but not the logic behind it. The problem is more with the people: Nobody wants to spend the time on the mailroom floor working up from the bottom so to speak. They are all just hoping for the instant gratification that is promised by Microsoft certification. ]
I'm the last person to extol the virtues of MSCE's and such. Experience is the best teacher and discipline is one of the best tools. As I said, a MSCE would be useless trying to admin a Mac or Linux network.
As for getting to know your network admin, exactly what does this get you? Network admins in my workplaces never let me anywhere near their stuff and they were fairly tight lipped about anything they knew. I got to work with the company network solely because I discredited a network admin repeatedly and predicted a few network intrusions based on his asinine admin tactics, such as not deploying necessary employee optimization solutions, which led to our network being infested by spyware and viruses. BTW I got kicked back from "interim admin" (the other guy got fired) to project manager after they hired a bearded old guy with 177,000 years of network admin experience.
So much for my shot at network administration.
[Woo-f-ing-Hoo. You have a certificate and now you're a somebody. You are too great and mighty to spend a couple of years doing phone support and sound-card-swapping while trying to work up from the inside.]
When was the last time a tech support guy actually ever became a network admin? What intersect is there between the knowledge gained in tech support (swapping sound cards, as you put it) and the knowledge required to run a heterogenous network?
Working your way up from tech support, if your employer will even let you work up to network admin from there (which I can't imagine any employer doing), still means (IMHO) you have left out many critical elements of knowledge required to be a competent admin.
I strongly believe that one needs formal, structured, disciplined training in heterogenous network administration to be an effective admin. This does not mean certifications; it means old school, nose to the grindstone, lab work, homework and tons of hands-on training, along with a lot of sanctioned, lab supervised opfor training (aka all-out hacking wars). Your education resume should say "I came out of this school having learned and demonstrated how to build from scratch, configure and then lock down a heterogenous network of Mac's, Sparc's, Linux boxes and PC's, and I optimized employee computer usage this way, that way, and the other way", etc. and you should be able to back up every claim you make under the hot lamp of your would-be employers' pre-employment scrutiny.
Sysadmin school, as I'd call it, is going to be deadly necessary very soon, as the proliferation of computer networks, and the dearth of good admins (oh yeah, we have a lot of "good old boys" admins who got their jobs because of connections, but they vastly outnumber the real true blue good admins) is going to leave our entire computer infrastructure open to attack.
Sadly, our corporate masters and their government lapdogs don't care enough to get this idea going. Hackers hurt us little people a lot but they don't hurt the corporations. Much. Ok, they do hurt 'em, but then the corporations get bailed out at taxpayer expense and Uncle Sam uses it to DMCA, TCPA and USAPATRIOT away our freedoms but I digress...
Slashdot Mirror
Funny, the BLS
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
says the majority of growth is in the service, hospitality and retail sector.
Are you telling me that Wal Mart is paying people more money?
Or maybe it's the Government jobs that factor highly in the job growth, that is providing the best pay? Can't go wrong on that when your bennies are automatically covered... unlike (nowadays) private industry.
Or perhaps what you're really telling me is a handful of millionaires and billionaires are seriously skewing the numbers...?
That still means workers - paid by someone else or not - are your foundation. Where will you get your profits without workers? Where? What are you without a gainfully employed population? What are you then?
The Bureau of Labor Statistics shows that most of our nation's job growth is in restaurant services and retail jobs. How are you going to sell homes and cars to more and more people earning closer and closer to $6/hr (moving constantly down from, say, $8-10/hr)? How can that possibly happen?
The math simply does not add up in the long term.
I call BS. Show me those stats.
You don't get it. If the American consumer spends less, countless businesses will die. Do you realize what this will mean to the economy?
American unemployment, when measured by European standards (and not US skewed standards) is barely a point lower than Europe.
Also, in the US someone is working but where are they working? Increasingly in food service and retail, mainly, which is why the term "underemployment" is so big now.
Pray tell me, which option that is.
/ main610269.shtml)
Is it the option that will deny you coverage to get a heart transplant or rehabilitative care if, on a whim, they decide you don't need one, and leave you to beg like a bum at the capricious door of some Christian Conservative charity (assuming you can get up and do so)?
Is it the option that is so repulsive to doctors because of all the paperwork (and the refusal of the payer to pay the doctors an honest amount for their work) that 10% of all doctors now require cash payments? (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/05/health
Is it the option that is completely avoided, shunned and despised by the entire civilized world outside the US and has absolutely no chance of ever being gaining a foothold elsewhere, no matter how bad socialized medicine supposedly gets?
Tell me again which option that is that you'd rather use.
Me, I'd rather not spend the rest of my life giving all of my income away (and the estate I plan to leave to my kids) to a hospital because one bout of cancer overran my insurance coverage and left me millions of dollars in debt. I'd just as soon leave this world and let my kids have the house instead of letting the hospital put a lien on it. Gee, I wonder which is the only country on Earth where this typically happens?
Socialized medicine spreads out the cost of medicine. This is why socialized medicine costs less per capita than in the US. Note that we're also competing with Communist China.
Your law of unintended consequences works both ways. Workers are severely underpaid in the US - our economy is now a low paying service economy, with better jobs going overseas. American students are shunning science degrees and more of those foreign born science brains - the foundation of our scientific achievements since at least World War II - are choosing to stay home now.
Consumer spending in the US is now wavering and personal debt is ballooning just to make ends meet.
Consumer spending is 2/3 of the economy.
Consumer debt cannot expand forever; this bubble has to collapse by simple laws of economics.
You need to make up for that with indefinite increases in credit, lower consumer spending, or higher wages. Simple facts of economics AND history there. Indefinite increases in credit lines is impossible; higher wages are not at all happening except for the wealthy few; which leaves lower consumer spending as a result of bankruptcies or higher oil prices.
The unintended consequences of laissez-faire policy allowing corporations to practice unrestricted greed is they will feed so much on their own base that they'll eat up 66% of the economy as the US continues to descend into a restaurant, tourism, and errand-running service economy that is a mere shadow of the world that existed in 1999 when anyone could enter the high paying tech industry and make something of themselves.
Now let's see you get any experience in **any industry** whatsoever without 10 years of experience. No experience, no job, no job, no experience.
Consumer spending will collapse. This is inevitable unless higher jobs are, in fact, protected. Fail to protect them and all you will have are Wal Mart jobs and the consumer spending that fits that kind of salary.
Behold the world of unintended consequences.
Wrong. The US has severe underemployment.
The service industry - namely, restaurant workers - is the fastest growing pool of jobs in America.
The higher paying, higher skilled jobs are going overseas.
Also consider these unintented consequences - with severe underemployment in the US, or severe unemployment in France, consumer buying power is crippled. Your company depends on customers. Take away their money and who will buy your stuff?
Workers are your foundation. Eat your foundation and what do you have left?
Democracy is certainly not a panacea.
A cure for apathy would be more of a panacea.
That quote actually came from Benjamin Franklin.
[EOM]
They're modding stuff as trolls and offtopic that aren't anywhere close to trollish or off topic.
Who in the world thinks that it's off topic or trollish to want to know if Linux runs on a new computer-type device? Sheesh.
I would wonder if the device would run linux, or an operating system of your choice, in the future.
Wow, I must really seriously protest this moderation...
That's the same as saying there's more than zero jobs so keep the band playing until they drown.
:)
What advantage does the ostrich have on chicken little? Answer: at least he doesn't see it coming!
The fact that you're completely and totally wrong is part of why there is a decline in people even bothering to study computer science any more, except in India and China.
s ide.html)
Now please, spare me your fake cowboy act. The only thing you are fighting for is your spot on your knees in front of your corporate masters who are pitting six billion people against each other for what is proven to be a shrinking number of jobs in the computer industry. (http://www.networkworld.com/careers/2004/0531man
Me? I'm in school for something else now. I'm abandoning the tech industry when I graduate. You're free to continue your "fight" for the suite room on the Titanic.
In 20 years there won't be anyone working for IT in your country or mine. Except for corporate Execs, of course. Or do you have another explanation for why there are now fewer people working in IT?
[I just read a story in the past 2 months about European drug makers outsourcing R&D to the US - not because of costs, but to get at better talent.]
5 563.cms/ a/2004/04/18/MNGBM672L01.DTL&type=printable
And what makes you think no one will look at those India Institute of Technology graduates? What makes you think the US is the only source of better talent?
We are seeing a drop in the number of American students enrolling in the sciences because they don't think a degree in those fields can pay their rent and bills. Where, then, is the talent coming from?
[The next "big boom" is probably Biotech. The US is also a HUGE exporter of services. If the US outlawed the import/export of services (so software jobs would stop going to China/India), the US would be the loser. Any idea the amount of engineering, research, civil design, and international legal work is outsourced to the US? What about R&D? As examples, do you know that both Japan's giant NTT and France Telecom run R&D labs in the US?]
Biotech, you say?
Funny, how I was just reading about how biotech is being offshored to India.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/77
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c
And I bet you more engineering work is offshored from the US to elsewhere, than vice versa.
There's a reason why the US runs a trade deficit with the entire world. We're net importing goods and net exporting jobs.
Now exactly what services are we exporting, and how many jobs does that entail? Do you have any hard numbers to back this up?
Now I've shown you documentation about biotech being offshored. I would prefer you afford me the courtesy of backing up your claims with some hard evidence.
The problem is no one in the US will be making those embedded devices any more. People overseas will do it for pennies on your dollar.
You can be as creative as you want but you will never as long as you live ace someone doing the same thing for pennies on your dollar.
You never did refute the fact that the majority of new jobs, as reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics, are low paying service jobs. Read the July 2005 report if you disagree.
Your twenty webservices and fist full of embedded devices will most likely be produced in Chinese factories and programmed by India Institute of Technology-educated 5 dollar a day graduates.
So much for the value of your creativity.
Change in this case means fewer and lower paying jobs.
There are now no more emerging industries coming. The tech industry is the last big job boom America will ever see except in the low paying service industry.
Plus we are now totally vulnerable to intellectual property theft and identity fraud against our citizens by foreign criminals who are inherently immune to FBI prosecution.
The cheese has been moved and there is less of it and more mice competing.
Ok well I am married but I'm still hip, man, I know all the 1337 sp34k!
rotflmao!!!
150,000.9857% PWNDZ0RZ!!!
Man, I gotta set up a trap like that. *scheming*
DOS mode unzip doesn't work on NTFS systems. It recognizes 8 character files and extracts only 8 characters.
This is God awful for when I have 200 zip files in one directory and need to unpack them all in a single run (as in, "unzip *.zip") instead of having to open and unzip each one with WinZip.
This analogy will fail when this new data center standard becomes a matter of enforcement, like those building codes that are created partially by taxpayer money but you have to pay a corporation a big pile of money just to look at them.
Corporate welfare at its finest.
Of course, these data center standards haven't reached that point, but who's to say they won't? It's being positioned that way. We'll see whether or not it ends up that way.
You forget that piracy groups have recently been associated with terrorist groups.
l ay.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000528473
i racy+alleged/2100-1028_3-5722835.html
6 0047,00.html
Read these documents.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/article_disp
http://news.com.com/Terrorist+link+to+copyright+p
http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,2763,12
The latter even implies piracy gives terrorists more money than drug sales!
Terrorist groups like Al Qaeda will do more than bust your knee caps. They'll fly a plane into your skyscraper.
Also, piracy is or will soon be a big staple in Mafia fundraising. See this:
http://www.grayzone.com/ifpi4899.htm
The danger in this is that Governments will soon be interested in alleging Al Qaeda or Mafia ties every time they bust an organized piracy group of any sort. Thus, they can justify punishing piracy with much harsher methods in the future.
Who'd have thought in the past that a single charge of mp3 piracy could land you in prison for as long as a charge of forcible rape?
Let us take identity thieves and put them in place of drug dealers to show the holes in your argument.
An identity thief has a 1 in 7000 chance of being caught.
If you fail to completely stop at a stop sign, what are your chances of getting caught?
And if a cop is writing you a ticket and some lady dials 911 because her ex-husband is busting down her door, who's gonna be there to respond for her? He's not going to tell you to stay put while he races off to save her life and then come back and ticket you. He's either going to finish ticketing you and bring a body bag to her house, or go save her and let you go.
Oh yeah and one other thing if cops were walking and chewing gum (busting drug dealers) at the same time, we'd have a heck of a lot fewer drug dealers out there than we have now.
[ I agree with your principal statement, but not the logic behind it.
The problem is more with the people: Nobody wants to spend the time on the mailroom floor working up from the bottom so to speak. They are all just hoping for the instant gratification that is promised by Microsoft certification. ]
I'm the last person to extol the virtues of MSCE's and such. Experience is the best teacher and discipline is one of the best tools. As I said, a MSCE would be useless trying to admin a Mac or Linux network.
As for getting to know your network admin, exactly what does this get you? Network admins in my workplaces never let me anywhere near their stuff and they were fairly tight lipped about anything they knew. I got to work with the company network solely because I discredited a network admin repeatedly and predicted a few network intrusions based on his asinine admin tactics, such as not deploying necessary employee optimization solutions, which led to our network being infested by spyware and viruses. BTW I got kicked back from "interim admin" (the other guy got fired) to project manager after they hired a bearded old guy with 177,000 years of network admin experience.
So much for my shot at network administration.
[Woo-f-ing-Hoo. You have a certificate and now you're a somebody. You are too great and mighty to spend a couple of years doing phone support and sound-card-swapping while trying to work up from the inside.]
When was the last time a tech support guy actually ever became a network admin? What intersect is there between the knowledge gained in tech support (swapping sound cards, as you put it) and the knowledge required to run a heterogenous network?
Working your way up from tech support, if your employer will even let you work up to network admin from there (which I can't imagine any employer doing), still means (IMHO) you have left out many critical elements of knowledge required to be a competent admin.
I strongly believe that one needs formal, structured, disciplined training in heterogenous network administration to be an effective admin. This does not mean certifications; it means old school, nose to the grindstone, lab work, homework and tons of hands-on training, along with a lot of sanctioned, lab supervised opfor training (aka all-out hacking wars). Your education resume should say "I came out of this school having learned and demonstrated how to build from scratch, configure and then lock down a heterogenous network of Mac's, Sparc's, Linux boxes and PC's, and I optimized employee computer usage this way, that way, and the other way", etc. and you should be able to back up every claim you make under the hot lamp of your would-be employers' pre-employment scrutiny.
Sysadmin school, as I'd call it, is going to be deadly necessary very soon, as the proliferation of computer networks, and the dearth of good admins (oh yeah, we have a lot of "good old boys" admins who got their jobs because of connections, but they vastly outnumber the real true blue good admins) is going to leave our entire computer infrastructure open to attack.
Sadly, our corporate masters and their government lapdogs don't care enough to get this idea going. Hackers hurt us little people a lot but they don't hurt the corporations. Much. Ok, they do hurt 'em, but then the corporations get bailed out at taxpayer expense and Uncle Sam uses it to DMCA, TCPA and USAPATRIOT away our freedoms but I digress...