In this case, the Lobbyist's (retail industry from what I understand) courted both sides of the aisle and it was not as divisive an issue as IRAQ, Abortion, HealthCare, etc. To boot, it allows them to use the word 'Bipartisan' some more (e.g. "We passed a bipartisan bill intended (as far as you all know) to save energy, but we're having trouble coming up with any statistics to validate that").
Now THAT would be a gross exageration. They may tire of me etc., but they don't wish I had never been born... unless of course they are lying to me. But that's OK... I don't interact with Slick Willy or W, so I'm not too worried.
Look, my point at the outset here was to point out how Clinton turned his 'lie' into 'misleading' (and got a complete pass on it BTW) and drawing a parallel to the 'gross exageration' (I think that was the term) comment that i replied to originally. I figured some on/. would find it funny and some would make it a politically heated discussion... so be it. So far... those that say I am a troll are greater than those that thought it was funny. Actually doing better than I thought in that regard. Had some Karma to burn anyhoo. You all can enjoy the remainder of this thread... I'm done.
Cheers!
Since you (an AC) decided to bring up the comparison...
Tell me... who was convicted of perjury, was debating the definition of the word 'is', and was ultimately impeached? So many people say 'Bush lied'... but I've yet to see one shred of evidence that George Bush, the President of the US lied. And exactly what about, did he supposedly lie? If I were to see the evidence, I would be more inclined to incude him as an example.
Keep in mind that congress had a say in sending the troops over... inlcuding Shrillary Clinton. But the other reply here probably has it right... Saddam was really operating a kennel.
K moderators... now you can officially mod me off-topic.
A: When you are Bill Clinton and you are 'misleading' the country... not 'lying'.
More to the story... Maybe they could hire Steve Jobs to use his Reality Distortion Field... ya know, just come sit in the court and distort reality for them a bit.
What is proposed about network security? Do you want the municipality/state handling the security of your connection and the helpdesk? To get adequately skilled staff and support, they'd have to pay well... means more taxes of course or less often garbage pickup.
And this is/., so I can't believe someone hasn't raised the issue of a government entity (local nonetheless) overseeing the network. Of course... we, the people, are supposed to constitute the government, and should hopefully be more involved at the local municipality and state level. This issue would at least get the geeks involved in local politics.
But lest I get too far off... yes, the cell providers would just as soon become the WiFi providers, or make WiFi obsolete and provide access over their WANs etc.
That's the rub... those are the principles of the free market at work... now working back against the freedom of the market. I can negotiate my own deals and offer you better prices if you agree to work with me exclusively or at a certain bulk rate. And so I should be free to do. Just as you are free to walk away from the deal. Problem is that the 'free' market is devoid of options and has now remained so by M$'s practices. In a free market, there should be *choices*. M$ has bullied PC Makers to not offer choices, but they have still chosen to lay in bed with M$. Apple, in the end, is a HW company, not a SW company. They make their money on boxen and iPods... not OS X and iTunes per-song sales. That's why they haven't openly licensed (and taken on support of) OS X to random bits of hardware.
Sad dilemna it is. But personally, I contribute to M$ as little as possible. I have Office on my Mac, which I got for $10-$20 through the University ('cost of media'). If my wife didn't use it, I would only use OpenOffice (limited as it is) and Google Docs. You're right many operate purely on sticker price and herd mentality in such decisions as which computer to buy. Much like how we make decisions on those for whom we vote [or against] for public office (Just an analogy... not meant as a hopping off point for political debate). It would be nice if the 800-pound gorilla let the other options be seen as well as it would be nice to see the PC-Makers rally and stand up to the 800-pound gorilla.
The RSI sort of works as an example... but sorry... *you* get to decide whether or not you get angry over something or not. To suggest that someone|something else is responsible for your anger (and a condition that might result of it) is incorrect (read, bunk). I'm not saying it's easy to control, but it still something that is up to the individual to control. The entitlement goes to the fact that "it is someone else's fault that I am [angry|sad|depressed|insertSomethingHere]". The article (IIRC) seemed to suggest that bad web site design is to blame for people's 'rage'. No one is responsible for rage except for the person raging. Granted there may be *some* legitimate medical exceptions...
Mind you... this does not mean that I don't get angry, sad etc. in response of others actions... but it is how I respond and I understand that. My kids do not cause me to be impatient and get upset (for example, as you noted, leaving things lying around)... they just test my limits. I can (and do) work harder to be more patient. That doesnt mean I enjoy perusing badly designed web sites for fun... I must move on.
In short, you can be an 'agent' that makes their own decision and *acts*, or you can be an 'object' and be acted upon.
Granted... this does not work for every case. A drunk driver hits me and I lose the use of my legs, that is their fault, but a driver cuts me off, it's my choice to flip him the bird or not. Somebody designs & codes a website poorly... my anger or high blood pressure because of my anger etc. is not their fault. I am hence not *entitled* to anything... unless I am their client and paid them. In which case, I am entitled to whatever was in the contract.
In the case of the RSI, I think having a job where you are using a mouse incessantly is at issue, not how web sites are designed. What I mean by 'entitlement' is that the RSI and the clicking is "someone else's fault and because I don't want to look for another solution to the problem, somebody owes me something for it. Today, I'll blame the boss|web designer|co-worker". In this case, the article seemed to point to 'bad web designers' as the one responsible for others 'rage'. Maybe you see/define 'entitlement' differently...
- All Apple laptops have cameras that cannot be easily disabled (of course (unless the LED is burnt out) due to the way the iSight is set up electrically, the green light will always be on when in use)
What.. just like those that save a piece of the packaging to act as a buffer between the keyboard and screen on their laptops... save a piece of tape [duct|electrical|masking] to patch that [security] hole.
Impatience Laziness Entitlement (i.e. "It's your fault I have bad health... I had to click twice to find that piece of info.")
Granted, I'm all for good functioning design... but this is ridiculous. No web designer/programmer is responsible for anyone else's health problems. The problem here is between the keyboard and the chair... move along folks.
Easy solution to that... find a new job and leave. Well not 'easy'... but simple I suppose. I left my last job moreso because I found a job I thought would be better long-term. I had told them about redundancy for 18 mos. to two years and that I didn't want to be doing the work I was doing or in the position I was in (had been verbally promised change a few times). I had just gotten a mid-term evaluation of 'outstanding'. In this case, it wasn't about the promotion, money etc., it was about where I wanted to go with my career... but that's the point. If the job is not going where you want, America is still mostly a free country (the Socialists haven't taken over... yet!), take yourself somewhere else.
Simple... volunteer pilot with plane. From the article I read (on Yahoo!)...
Marcelle Shriver said that since the string comes in an aerosol can, it is considered a hazardous material, meaning the Postal Service will not ship it by air. But a private pilot who heard about her campaign has agreed to fly the cans to Kuwait _ most likely in January _ where they will then be taken to Iraq.
"The translators will be made available as plug-ins to Novell's OpenOffice.org product. Novell will release the code to integrate the Open XML format into its product as open source and submit it for inclusion in the OpenOffice.org project. As a result, end users will be able to more easily share files between Microsoft Office and OpenOffice.org, as documents will better maintain consistent formats, formulas and style templates across the two office productivity suites."
Becomes...
Bla Bla plug-ins blabla Bla bla blablabla bla bla bla XML bla bla bla FUD... bla bla BLA.
So what piece of ID would you present? I don't recall there being a National Voters ID card.
Oh, right you're probably thinking "any form of government issued photo ID". Well I'm thinking bullshit. Your driver's license is to operate a motor vehicle, your health card (in Canada) is for presentation at a hospital when receiving medical services, and your Passport is required by foreign governments, not your own. Therefore, either you have to be a licensed driver, have a state run medical plan, or interest in foreign travel to vote? That's not in your constitution.
This is a good point... the thing is that some will cry voter intimidation in the same breath as 'unsecure voting system'... well... probably not, but both complaints exist. Maybe it's just the sys-admin-at-my-previous-job in me, but voting is a privlege (corect, it is not a 'right', unless someone can show that to me in the constitution... ?). In light of that, I side on the side of it being valid/secure. I want my vote to count (once) the same as it should for others.
I *verbally* told them my name and address (I live in MD)... no photo or other ID required. That has nothing to do with the paper-trail or other verifications that should be built into any voting system. But personally, I think the problem is deeper than paper-vs-electronic.
I'll take the higher taxes any day, over having to worry about whether or not I have to fight an insurance company over a claim, or if by making a claim, I'm gonna get tossed.
Even better... you can have the taxes *AND* fight the *government* (instead of the insurance company) over the claim!:p
"The person who can read and doesn't has no advantage over the person who can't read"
So... too lazy to read =~/illiterate/, no? Of course, at the same time, we are often simply overwhelmed by legal language and the amount of items we have/need to read. I guess I might be considered credit-card-offer-illiterate, since I just don't read them, I shred them.
This problem of getting to full cognitive capacity after waking is a serious one in some professions. Think about doctors who are on night duty and are woken up to immediately deal with an emergency. In some cases it might be better to just stand around and do nothing for a few minutes unless it really is life threatening.
I can see the real problem now... at least in today's letigious/blameful society we call America. Since 'research' now shows something else... we must make a new law. So... now you can either be sued for a) Doing nothing for a minute because you were 'sleeping on the job' and the patient died or b) working while 'in a state equivalent to being legally drunk' and botching the job. Either that... or 'rest regulations' become as complex as our tax code and you have to settle the amount of rest you got in the previous year by April 15th of the next year.
So what you're saying is that if you use law2 to break law1, then it's OK? I guess technically, law2 is an exception then... or a technicality. Or maybe there's a reason I didn't go into law... pheewwww... I'm gettig dizzy.
Hmm... now if we take the summary and put in a synonym or two...
Cos, you know, science progresses [evolves]. That's what it does; that's what it's meant [designed] to do. I'd be extremely troubled if scientists today knew less than 100 years ago.
FYI... I had to beg to be let go as part of a RIF at my last company. Had access til my last day, but was not in an admin. position of any sort. I had planned to give them one week of notice... because the RIF was happening a week before my two-year anniversary (with a 2-year relocation agreement on my head) and severance was better if they RIF'd me. But they caught wind (somewhat purposefully) that I had lined something else up and was just biding my time. Still HR was very cryptic about it all.
Now, I'm trying to figure out how much time to give once I do find something else where I am. Although, I'm at a.edu and they're too strapped to be kicking me off early. Either way...
Here's what I've learned thus far...
Leave the option open to overlap the start of new gig with the end of old gig. i.e. Tell the new employer a date, but "I may be able to start sooner. I will let you know once I give notice."
I knew this... but to reiterate. Don't take it personally, take the check, and maybe some time off. This is why I keep some annual leave cached always. This would only help the overlap more.
Provide notice up to the minimum statutory severance period. Then if they walk you out early... you get that much time off... paid!
Slashdot Mirror
In this case, the Lobbyist's (retail industry from what I understand) courted both sides of the aisle and it was not as divisive an issue as IRAQ, Abortion, HealthCare, etc. To boot, it allows them to use the word 'Bipartisan' some more (e.g. "We passed a bipartisan bill intended (as far as you all know) to save energy, but we're having trouble coming up with any statistics to validate that").
Personally ... I think the sad indication of /.'s quality is that a comment such as yours is mod'd up as 'informative'.
Safeway?!?!?! Way too expensive ... I buy at Juan's Discount Mercado :p
Now THAT would be a gross exageration. They may tire of me etc., but they don't wish I had never been born ... unless of course they are lying to me. But that's OK ... I don't interact with Slick Willy or W, so I'm not too worried.
Look, my point at the outset here was to point out how Clinton turned his 'lie' into 'misleading' (and got a complete pass on it BTW) and drawing a parallel to the 'gross exageration' (I think that was the term) comment that i replied to originally. I figured some on /. would find it funny and some would make it a politically heated discussion ... so be it. So far ... those that say I am a troll are greater than those that thought it was funny. Actually doing better than I thought in that regard. Had some Karma to burn anyhoo. You all can enjoy the remainder of this thread ... I'm done.
Cheers!
Does that even require a reply?
OK ... now correlate that to how he knowingly lied.
And define the word 'is' while you're at it .... :p
Since you (an AC) decided to bring up the comparison ...
... who was convicted of perjury, was debating the definition of the word 'is', and was ultimately impeached? So many people say 'Bush lied' ... but I've yet to see one shred of evidence that George Bush, the President of the US lied. And exactly what about, did he supposedly lie? If I were to see the evidence, I would be more inclined to incude him as an example.
... inlcuding Shrillary Clinton. But the other reply here probably has it right ... Saddam was really operating a kennel.
... now you can officially mod me off-topic.
Tell me
Keep in mind that congress had a say in sending the troops over
K moderators
Q: How is gross exaggeration NOT flat out lying
A: When you are Bill Clinton and you are 'misleading' the country ... not 'lying'.
More to the story ... Maybe they could hire Steve Jobs to use his Reality Distortion Field ... ya know, just come sit in the court and distort reality for them a bit.
What is proposed about network security? Do you want the municipality/state handling the security of your connection and the helpdesk? To get adequately skilled staff and support, they'd have to pay well ... means more taxes of course or less often garbage pickup.
/., so I can't believe someone hasn't raised the issue of a government entity (local nonetheless) overseeing the network. Of course ... we, the people, are supposed to constitute the government, and should hopefully be more involved at the local municipality and state level. This issue would at least get the geeks involved in local politics.
... yes, the cell providers would just as soon become the WiFi providers, or make WiFi obsolete and provide access over their WANs etc.
And this is
But lest I get too far off
That's the rub ... those are the principles of the free market at work ... now working back against the freedom of the market. I can negotiate my own deals and offer you better prices if you agree to work with me exclusively or at a certain bulk rate. And so I should be free to do. Just as you are free to walk away from the deal. Problem is that the 'free' market is devoid of options and has now remained so by M$'s practices. In a free market, there should be *choices*. M$ has bullied PC Makers to not offer choices, but they have still chosen to lay in bed with M$. Apple, in the end, is a HW company, not a SW company. They make their money on boxen and iPods ... not OS X and iTunes per-song sales. That's why they haven't openly licensed (and taken on support of) OS X to random bits of hardware.
Sad dilemna it is. But personally, I contribute to M$ as little as possible. I have Office on my Mac, which I got for $10-$20 through the University ('cost of media'). If my wife didn't use it, I would only use OpenOffice (limited as it is) and Google Docs. You're right many operate purely on sticker price and herd mentality in such decisions as which computer to buy. Much like how we make decisions on those for whom we vote [or against] for public office (Just an analogy ... not meant as a hopping off point for political debate). It would be nice if the 800-pound gorilla let the other options be seen as well as it would be nice to see the PC-Makers rally and stand up to the 800-pound gorilla.
The RSI sort of works as an example ... but sorry ... *you* get to decide whether or not you get angry over something or not. To suggest that someone|something else is responsible for your anger (and a condition that might result of it) is incorrect (read, bunk). I'm not saying it's easy to control, but it still something that is up to the individual to control. The entitlement goes to the fact that "it is someone else's fault that I am [angry|sad|depressed|insertSomethingHere]". The article (IIRC) seemed to suggest that bad web site design is to blame for people's 'rage'. No one is responsible for rage except for the person raging. Granted there may be *some* legitimate medical exceptions ...
... this does not mean that I don't get angry, sad etc. in response of others actions ... but it is how I respond and I understand that. My kids do not cause me to be impatient and get upset (for example, as you noted, leaving things lying around) ... they just test my limits. I can (and do) work harder to be more patient. That doesnt mean I enjoy perusing badly designed web sites for fun ... I must move on.
... this does not work for every case. A drunk driver hits me and I lose the use of my legs, that is their fault, but a driver cuts me off, it's my choice to flip him the bird or not. Somebody designs & codes a website poorly ... my anger or high blood pressure because of my anger etc. is not their fault. I am hence not *entitled* to anything ... unless I am their client and paid them. In which case, I am entitled to whatever was in the contract.
...
Mind you
In short, you can be an 'agent' that makes their own decision and *acts*, or you can be an 'object' and be acted upon.
Granted
In the case of the RSI, I think having a job where you are using a mouse incessantly is at issue, not how web sites are designed. What I mean by 'entitlement' is that the RSI and the clicking is "someone else's fault and because I don't want to look for another solution to the problem, somebody owes me something for it. Today, I'll blame the boss|web designer|co-worker". In this case, the article seemed to point to 'bad web designers' as the one responsible for others 'rage'. Maybe you see/define 'entitlement' differently
- All Apple laptops have cameras that cannot be easily disabled (of course (unless the LED is burnt out) due to the way the iSight is set up electrically, the green light will always be on when in use)
What .. just like those that save a piece of the packaging to act as a buffer between the keyboard and screen on their laptops... save a piece of tape [duct|electrical|masking] to patch that [security] hole.
yep ... and anger's friends ...
... I had to click twice to find that piece of info.")
... but this is ridiculous. No web designer/programmer is responsible for anyone else's health problems. The problem here is between the keyboard and the chair ... move along folks.
Impatience
Laziness
Entitlement (i.e. "It's your fault I have bad health
Granted, I'm all for good functioning design
Easy solution to that ... find a new job and leave. Well not 'easy' ... but simple I suppose. I left my last job moreso because I found a job I thought would be better long-term. I had told them about redundancy for 18 mos. to two years and that I didn't want to be doing the work I was doing or in the position I was in (had been verbally promised change a few times). I had just gotten a mid-term evaluation of 'outstanding'. In this case, it wasn't about the promotion, money etc., it was about where I wanted to go with my career ... but that's the point. If the job is not going where you want, America is still mostly a free country (the Socialists haven't taken over ... yet!), take yourself somewhere else.
Marcelle Shriver said that since the string comes in an aerosol can, it is considered a hazardous material, meaning the Postal Service will not ship it by air. But a private pilot who heard about her campaign has agreed to fly the cans to Kuwait _ most likely in January _ where they will then be taken to Iraq.
"The translators will be made available as plug-ins to Novell's OpenOffice.org product. Novell will release the code to integrate the Open XML format into its product as open source and submit it for inclusion in the OpenOffice.org project. As a result, end users will be able to more easily share files between Microsoft Office and OpenOffice.org, as documents will better maintain consistent formats, formulas and style templates across the two office productivity suites."
Becomes ...
Bla Bla plug-ins blabla Bla bla blablabla bla bla bla XML bla bla bla FUD ... bla bla BLA.
Yeah .... don't see it happening that way here in today's US of A.
So what piece of ID would you present? I don't recall there being a National Voters ID card.
... the thing is that some will cry voter intimidation in the same breath as 'unsecure voting system' ... well ... probably not, but both complaints exist. Maybe it's just the sys-admin-at-my-previous-job in me, but voting is a privlege (corect, it is not a 'right', unless someone can show that to me in the constitution ... ?). In light of that, I side on the side of it being valid/secure. I want my vote to count (once) the same as it should for others.
Oh, right you're probably thinking "any form of government issued photo ID". Well I'm thinking bullshit. Your driver's license is to operate a motor vehicle, your health card (in Canada) is for presentation at a hospital when receiving medical services, and your Passport is required by foreign governments, not your own. Therefore, either you have to be a licensed driver, have a state run medical plan, or interest in foreign travel to vote? That's not in your constitution.
This is a good point
I *verbally* told them my name and address (I live in MD) ... no photo or other ID required. That has nothing to do with the paper-trail or other verifications that should be built into any voting system. But personally, I think the problem is deeper than paper-vs-electronic.
I'll take the higher taxes any day, over having to worry about whether or not I have to fight an insurance company over a claim, or if by making a claim, I'm gonna get tossed.
Even better ... you can have the taxes *AND* fight the *government* (instead of the insurance company) over the claim! :p
Doesn't the saying go something like ..
... too lazy to read =~ /illiterate/, no? Of course, at the same time, we are often simply overwhelmed by legal language and the amount of items we have/need to read. I guess I might be considered credit-card-offer-illiterate, since I just don't read them, I shred them.
"The person who can read and doesn't has no advantage over the person who can't read"
So
This problem of getting to full cognitive capacity after waking is a serious one in some professions. Think about doctors who are on night duty and are woken up to immediately deal with an emergency. In some cases it might be better to just stand around and do nothing for a few minutes unless it really is life threatening.
I can see the real problem now ... at least in today's letigious/blameful society we call America. Since 'research' now shows something else ... we must make a new law. So ... now you can either be sued for a) Doing nothing for a minute because you were 'sleeping on the job' and the patient died or b) working while 'in a state equivalent to being legally drunk' and botching the job. Either that ... or 'rest regulations' become as complex as our tax code and you have to settle the amount of rest you got in the previous year by April 15th of the next year.
So what you're saying is that if you use law2 to break law1, then it's OK? I guess technically, law2 is an exception then ... or a technicality. Or maybe there's a reason I didn't go into law ... pheewwww... I'm gettig dizzy.
Cos, you know, science progresses [evolves]. That's what it does; that's what it's meant [designed] to do. I'd be extremely troubled if scientists today knew less than 100 years ago.
And yeahFYI ... I had to beg to be let go as part of a RIF at my last company. Had access til my last day, but was not in an admin. position of any sort. I had planned to give them one week of notice ... because the RIF was happening a week before my two-year anniversary (with a 2-year relocation agreement on my head) and severance was better if they RIF'd me. But they caught wind (somewhat purposefully) that I had lined something else up and was just biding my time. Still HR was very cryptic about it all.
Now, I'm trying to figure out how much time to give once I do find something else where I am. Although, I'm at a .edu and they're too strapped to be kicking me off early. Either way ...
Here's what I've learned thus farGood Times, these are!! hrrrmmmmmm