Slashdot Mirror
Computer Jobs -- How to Resign Professionally?
MikeDawg asks: "I submitted a letter of resignation yesterday, and today I'm at home posting stories to my weblog and Slashdot. I gave my employer two weeks notice, and almost immediately, I had my accounts disabled, and my permissions revoked on all the computers at my work, which makes me unable to do anything in my position of being a 'Systems Analyst/Systems Administrator'. I spoke with the HR rep, and gave her my notice yesterday, then I spoke with her today about what had happened to my access, and they honored my resignation... 2 weeks early. (Luckily, I'm compensated in pay for the next two weeks). What I want to know is, how do you computer and IT professionals out there put in your notice of resignation (if you are with a permanent employer, and not contractual), and not get immediately shutdown, and shunned away from the computers? The CIO immediately thought I was going to do something terrible to the system, and destroy accounts, and any other activity that I have access to, but I was giving him notice that I was leaving. What is the professional thing to do?"
You're a liability. You got paid. Be happy.
Umm... what's the question again? You did resign in a professional manner. Is this the first real IT job that you've had? What you experienced is standard operating procedure for any organization with even a half-assed security policy. They aren't your computers. Why are you taking it so personally, esp. since they've paid you for those two extra weeks? ::rolls eyes::
What I'd like to know is what didn't make the front page because this got posted instead?
Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
Up front Disclaimer: I am a disgruntled former employee of a Telco... laid off after 21 years
You, kind sir, proffered as professional a resignation as necessary. There are no reciprocal gaurantees, and in the IT field it is more typical than not for you to be treated nearly as if you were a criminal.
Systems you once managed for your employers now are at risk. Former peers are now potential spies. Do not be surprised to be treated like you have some sort of exotic, deadly, contagious disease. Don't expect anything for references other than affirmation you actually did work there.
This is the fine world of trust we have achieved as a civilised and evolved society. Trust not.
I will still always give professional courtesy (e.g., sufficient lead time for resignation) but I've left the corporate world with a sour aftertaste.... It sucks, that's just the way it is.
It sounds to me like you did the right thing. You shouldn't be expected to walk on eggshells just because your employer is paranoid.
You are so boring that when I see you my feet go to sleep.
Based on how you described it, you probably did nothing wrong, and they probably did the right thing.
Companies are rightfully paranoid that a departing employee -- particulalrly one with root access -- may decide to do something nasty on the way out the door. This doesn't mean that *you* would do this, just that they can't take a chance. Of course, if you had intended to do something nasty, you could easily have set it up before tendering your resignation. The best thing to do is act like a professional and understand that what is in your best interest and in the company's best interest are no longer related.
If you give them 2 weeks and they pay you for the 2 weeks and tell you to stay home what does it matter? You are still getting paid and you have some free time. What happened to you is pretty much normal.
Take all of your vacation, THEN resign. Duh.
Even if you were the perfect employee, and have the more elloquent and professional resignation...
They'll still lock you out as soon as they know you won't be with the company anymore.
Why?
They can't afford it if they don't, and they're wrong about you, and you do something. It's like how nobody is allowed to drive drunk, even those who can do it perfectly fine. As a general rule, people who're leaving the company don't get ot read other people's email.
If you got an extra two weeks of vacation, enjoy it.
When I quit HP, they paid me to stay at home for two weeks, and my unused vacation. 6 weeks of pay for 2 weeks at home. Time to recover and prepare for my new job, buy new clothes, and figure out the bus schedule.
The professional way to handle it is to stop whining and enjoy.
Don't take it personally. It's standard operation procedure at most companies. Enjoy your two weeks off with pay.
Don't complain about it to Slashdot.
WASTE - The Secure P2P
guess you're new to this. that's completely typical behavior and completely expected. don't take it personally. you're a liability risk since you have nothing to lose. take the $$$ and enjoy the vacation.. some times a new job will pick you up early if you're interested. but this has happened to me a few times.
abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
Although it is not very professional.
Of course mine was just my review, but it sort of acted like a resignation letter.
Strengths: Over the last six months I have had the opportunity to learn how to smile when given projects that offer no challenge at all. Furthermore I can now hide my disdain for co-workers that have more in common with parasitic worms than with human beings. I've also grown to recognize the importance of recognition via comparison. For instance, I recognize that our environment here at (insert company name here) is really wonderful compared to other companies - the same way Syphilis is a great improvement over A.I.D.S.. Then there is the multitude of tasks that I can do with my eyes closed. It's truly a wonder how many mundane tasks I can accomplish with no effort at all. And lastly there is my recent discovery of how to divide by zero.
Weaknesses: Sometimes, I have trouble accepting that I actually am flawless.
Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?
It's probably just policy, maybe they got burned in the past. If you think you were singled out, consider why, and if you are being honest with yourself and can think of no good reason, ahh well, your boss is just paranoid then.
This happened to me last week. My problem with it is the fact that I'm a 'liability,' now. My feeling is that even before I put in my notice, I was a 'liability.' If I intended to do harm, I could have easily snagged all of the important SSH keys and installed backdoors before I put in my notice.
I guess it's just the idea that you're an open liability, now. Whatever, 2 weeks severance is nice.
Nobel winner Harold Pinter had a few interesting comments in his lecture:
Political language, as used by politicians, does not venture into any of this territory since the majority of politicians, on the evidence available to us, are interested not in truth but in power and in the maintenance of that power. To maintain that power it is essential that people remain in ignorance, that they live in ignorance of the truth, even the truth of their own lives. What surrounds us therefore is a vast tapestry of lies, upon which we feed.
As every single person here knows, the justification for the invasion of Iraq was that Saddam Hussein possessed a highly dangerous body of weapons of mass destruction, some of which could be fired in 45 minutes, bringing about appalling devastation. We were assured that was true. It was not true. We were told that Iraq had a relationship with Al Quaeda and shared responsibility for the atrocity in New York of September 11th 2001. We were assured that this was true. It was not true. We were told that Iraq threatened the security of the world. We were assured it was true. It was not true.
The truth is something entirely different. The truth is to do with how the United States understands its role in the world and how it chooses to embody it.
But before I come back to the present I would like to look at the recent past, by which I mean United States foreign policy since the end of the Second World War. I believe it is obligatory upon us to subject this period to at least some kind of even limited scrutiny, which is all that time will allow here.
Everyone knows what happened in the Soviet Union and throughout Eastern Europe during the post-war period: the systematic brutality, the widespread atrocities, the ruthless suppression of independent thought. All this has been fully documented and verified.
But my contention here is that the US crimes in the same period have only been superficially recorded, let alone documented, let alone acknowledged, let alone recognised as crimes at all. I believe this must be addressed and that the truth has considerable bearing on where the world stands now. Although constrained, to a certain extent, by the existence of the Soviet Union, the United States' actions throughout the world made it clear that it had concluded it had carte blanche to do what it liked.
Direct invasion of a sovereign state has never in fact been America's favoured method. In the main, it has preferred what it has described as 'low intensity conflict'. Low intensity conflict means that thousands of people die but slower than if you dropped a bomb on them in one fell swoop. It means that you infect the heart of the country, that you establish a malignant growth and watch the gangrene bloom. When the populace has been subdued - or beaten to death - the same thing - and your own friends, the military and the great corporations, sit comfortably in power, you go before the camera and say that democracy has prevailed. This was a commonplace in US foreign policy in the years to which I refer.
The tragedy of Nicaragua was a highly significant case. I choose to offer it here as a potent example of America's view of its role in the world, both then and now.
I was present at a meeting at the US embassy in London in the late 1980s.
The United States Congress was about to decide whether to give more money to the Contras in their campaign against the state of Nicaragua. I was a member of a delegation speaking on behalf of Nicaragua but the most important member of this delegation was a Father John Metcalf. The leader of the US body was Raymond Seitz (then number two to the ambassador, later ambassador himself). Father Metcalf said: 'Sir, I am in charge of a parish in the north of Nicaragua. My parishioners built a school, a health centre, a cultural centre. We have lived in peace. A few months ago a Contra force attacked the parish. They destroyed everything: the school, the health centre, the cultural centre. They raped nurses and teachers,
Well they can do this, if you're moving to a competitor they tend to be quite aggressive.
However you told them, if you were going to do anything inappropriate, you would have done it before telling them.
It's likely a dumb idea to shut you down like this, they should have taken your notice as a sign of good faith to help bring others up to speed.
Managers should always try to minimize risk, if you're in a sensitive position err on the side of caution. Don't take it personally.
You did everything professionally, it's the company that is acting immature.
Lets face it, you gave them notice. If you were going to do anything destructive, you'd have done it before you warned them you were leaving. If they don't want you to work out your last two weeks, that's their choice. In my area, if you give the legally required notice, they are required to pay you, but whether or not they want you to work is the company's choice.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but teach a man to phish...
You're leaving. Anything you do doesn't have repurcussions, like, oh, firing you. Any responsible admin would have disabled your accounts.
At most companies I have worked at, policy is to immediately disable accounts, and then give you contractor accounts, which have very limited rights and don't allow you to do much to mess anything up.
That's why I've been a consultant for, oh, just about the past 12 years (more or less). Even then, I've tried to be good and give 2-4 weeks notice when I saw things going south, but management never seems to appreciate it, even when you offer to document your work, make yourself available for a brief period after you leave, etc...
Fact is, the moment you resign, you're a pariah. But if you do all the "right things" you can at least leave with a good conscience, and not have anything come back to haunt you.
Nothing is inexplicable; only unexplained -Tom Baker, Doctor Who
You haven't behaved unprofessionally, you've done the right things. If your company wanted you to resign in any other way, they should have told you so.
:)
I think the real lesson here is to make sure you've done everything you need to do on your soon-to-be-ex-employer's systems *before* you hand in your resignation
"Don't break my arse, my bargey wargey arse, I don't think my pants would understand..."
The ball was in their court.
Get your Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool Here for FREE! - http://fedora.redhat.com
point out to your boss that you can no longer do anything
ask not to have to come in
take two weeks holiday before you start your next job
go on holidays / get out of the basement
enjoy!
We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
It seems like IT professionals are getting like investment brokers: when you give them two weeks notice they give you the money and ask you to leave.
I don't think it's anything personal. It's just the way some businesses nowadays prefer to operate. I think it's a mistaken attempt at managing risk. Think about it: would a guy who wants to screw you over give two weeks notice? No, they'd do you dirt and take off with no notice.
My father is a blogger.
.. but I can also understand your employers position.
While as a ethical professional you wouldn't do anything malicious with your access, that doesn't mean everyone in your position wouldn't. Granted, people who plan to act maliciously generally don't do so after putting in notice, from their point of view, it is better safe than sorry.
You get your pay (which is pretty nice of them), you did the right thing. I wouldn't take their actions personally.
-Adam C. Greenfield
They seem not to care very much for your skills, or they wouldn't disable you so quickly. They may be paranoid. I would think you have some transition to do, and they've rendered that difficult, so it won't be as complete.
Giving notice IS the professional thing to do. Some organizations will decide that rather than take a chance that you're going to break things when you leave, they'd rather pay you for work you won't be doing. That's their choice, don't take it too personally. I was actually hoping for similar treatment, along the lines of "Well, thanks for the notice, no point in keeping you here for two weeks doing work that won't lead anywhere, why not take some time off?" but when I quit my last job they actually found work for me to do in my last two weeks (I'm a developer, so two weeks isn't a lot when you're between projects). But whatever... good luck with the new job!
From what it sounds like, you did everything right. Two weeks is an excellent time period to offer notice. You aren't dropping out of the company like a light, but you also aren't creating an awkward, 'lame-duck' position where the company has to keep the thought in the back of thier head that you're leaving in say, 6 months.
Also, unless you're leaving for competition, the CIO probably didn't think you were going to 'do something malicious'. It's probably just company protocol, and in fact, I would consider the quick removal of accounts to be 'lite'. I've worked at companies where as the minute strikes your time of non-employment, 2 security guards immedietally escort you out of the building.
When I resigned in a professional manner, they made me stay the whole 2 weeks. Sometimes they escort people out of the building that day for security reasons and still pay them for the remaining 2 weeks. However, I had to stay and fill out paperwork and go to BS meetings and suffer. What they did to you is pretty standard and has nothing to do with you or how you resigned.
http://www.kubuntu.org/
My advice - go back into work (as an escorted visitor if necesarry) and shake hands and thank everyone you can find for working with you. If not able to do it in person, send thank you cards (and be damn sure to include the CIO). This is a small business and taking these steps will make it sure that everyone knows you're not burning bridges.
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
I wrote out a nice letter saying that while I enjoyed working there, I had been offered a better position that I could not refuse and that I would be resigning in two weeks. I kept all my access, and I had physical access to the equipment and back up tapes. I parted on good terms and could go back to my job at any time.
Without knowing your relationship with you company and what your letter said, I can only suggest your boss is a jerk.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
There is no good way to approach this situation. The employer, obviously, holds all the cards. The best thing you can do is be as polite and professional as possible and pray that the company gives you a fair severance package. Unless you can show discrimination based upon a federally protected definition (race, religion, minority, age, disability, etc.) with reams and reams of legally documented material then the employer is well within their legal rights to leave you out in the breeze. While I don't believe it's right you are lucky to have been paid for those two weeks.
For all the talk of rights there's only one thing true at the end of the day: If you're an at-will employee then you are completely at the mercy of the employer.
fast as fast can be. you'll never catch me.
Technically you can resign and leave immediately, but it's professional to offer to stay for up to two weeks to help with the transition. But if they don't want you to stick around, that should be OK with you too.
Sometimes younger employees are less trusted to do the right thing. I remember talking to a 23-year old who bragged about setting up malicious cron jobs as he was leaving the last place he worked for, which he described as a sweatshop.
Two weeks is nicety, sometimes companies will want more time for you to share your brain and sometimes less but never plan on there definately being a two week period, no matter the job; Not just IT.
-EB
Do you ever walk alone like a drifter in the dark?
You gave them two weeks notice. This is just a courtesy. They can and should do exactly what they did. As soon as a letter of resignation is turned in, you are informing everyone you are no longer going to be an employee with the company. Why would a company want to work with you any longer at this point, unless they had to?
When you turn in your letter of resignation, you should be ready to go. Why do you care they have cut you off? Were you planning something on the way out? (This is probably why they cut you off, after all.)
Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
In lieu of keeping you there during your resignation period. Why risk liability over a couple of weeks of sysadmin pay?
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
The employer is protecting their assets. Think of it as if you were the employer, and someone told you they were leaving, whether you expected it or not. You will probably not know the reasons for the resignation in full, you only know what they tell you. If the person continues to work for you, is there a chance they can leave with things you may not want them to leave it? Maybe it's a tactic on their part to force you to raise their salary. If it's a critical one-person role, who will replace them? Is it a position easy to replace. Yada, yada, yada... Hopefully you get the picture.
If that's what the employer did, and you got paid for the 2 weeks, then it's still a professional outcome. They chose to exercise security in this case, and you didn't get screwed out of your money. All seems fair.
Step 1: Find an IT job Step 2: Work diligently until given access to critical systems Step 3: Start acting suspiciously//unhappy w/ management Step 4: Give your resignation... ONE YEAR early! Step 5: Take 6 Month Vacation Step 6: Spend 6 Months looking for your next $sys$target employer. .. BRILLIANT !
Rule 2: Writing a spec is like writing code for a brain to execute.
If it were me I would approach my boss and let them know that if they won't give access, there is no need to be around, but you'll be happy to answer any questions that they might have. However tell them that you'd be more than happy to twiddle your thumbs (in a more polite way) for a couple weeks until you've given them their time. I'd guess that they'd be willing to let you go with pay. If not, Worst case you can try to improve your solitaire skills for a couple weeks and get paid to do it.
In any case, both sides have fulfilled their obligations to each other in a completely professional way.
Scott
Simple fact is that you worked for assholes. They valued you so little that they didn't even let you wrap up what you were working on. Not only is that a slap in the face, how can you consider them a reliable reference? Make sure you are on good terms with at least a couple people there who can vouch for your skills.
I know about this virus, it takes a few 1/10s of a cent from each transaction, and puts it in a bank account. Ya, it was in Superman III.
...you should have done something terrible to the system, destroyed all the accounts, and performed all your malicious acts *before* you put in your two weeks notice.
Sounds pretty reactionary to me, simply assuming that because you've turned in your two weeks, suddenly you're a threat to the company. But as long as you presented yourself professionally, you did all you could.
Be available for your two weeks (after all, they are paying you, and you don't want to burn any bridges). But hey, you know what? It's not your problem anymore, and you don't owe them anything they're not paying you for.
Your manager has to weigh the risks and benefits. The risk is that you might steal trade secrets or try to sabotage the system since you have nothing to lose. While this is unlikely, if it did happen, it would cause your company huge problems.
The benefit of you working, is that you will do some work. However, management probably assummes your work won't be as high of quality as normal anyways.
Nothing is very unusual about what happened to you. I've heard of people being shown the door, immediately, and they aren't even allowed to pack up their belongings.
The phrase "at will" is standard in most contracts nowadays, especially in IT. It basically means that they can let you go at any time and you can decide to leave at any time. It's always best to give the standard two weeks notice and tidy everything up before you go, but these days companies really don't care much. They'll let you go, hand you a severance check, and by the end of the day, they've locked you out of their systems.
This just goes to the whole shift in corporate culture, where employees are no longer people, but FTEs, to be tallied, shifted around like pieces on a Risk board, and disposed of when their usefulness is up. I was raised to believe in the old school company, the kind that valued employees and celebrated longevity, but the only way you get to stay past 5 years anymore is to move up the corporate ladder or refuse your yearly pay raise. And even then, with the advent of outsourcing, job security is a fasing concept.
You did the right thing; your company did not.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
Seriously, is that even remotely a suprise to anyone here? What amazes me is someone could end up in a position like that and not a) understand the reaction and b) expect (s)he'd do the same if someone under them left
Complaining about two weeks of paid vacation? The only reason I could think someone would complain about that is that they had personal things they wanted to get off the systems (why was anything personal at work?) or work-related things they wanted "backups" of (which is precisely why shutting access off is the correct thing to do).
To the original poster (and to moderators, this is not meant as a flame): don't assume your boss thinks you're going to be malicious. He just clearly understands your job more than you do.
I take it you were not under contract. If so, welcome to at will employment. If you didn't know that already I just hope you had the sense to get your next job (if looking for one) before you quit your previous one. Like selling a house, it is much easier to get hired if you already have a job.
Speak truth to power.
I think the lesson here is: you should have given more notice. You could've had 2 paid months off.
It sounds like you did the right thing, so I'm confused to why you are not happy. As long as they pay you for the next two weeks, everything is good.
If you had some personal info that you wanted to get from computer systems, you can still request that someone get it for you, but you really should have thought about this before you let them know that you were leaving.
Terminating access immediately upon notice of intent to leave is an okay thing to do for some organizations, but it's up to them.
How they handle your resignation has a lot to do with how you feel.
Remember that great quote, "Don't mistake for malice what is easily explained for by stupidity." They probably don't hate you for quitting -- they just want to cover their butt. They might be a little scared and confused. And if they do hate you for quitting... well, you did the right thing by quitting, because they suck!
Apparently in the business world paranoia is the new normal.
Height: 38U, Weight: 0 Newtons, Eyes: #0000FF, OS: Gray Matter 1.0 (Alpha)
"What is the professional thing to do?"
Honestly, and harshly: The professional thing to do is STFU, take the two weeks paid, and start your new job ASAP.
Walk away: You did what was required - the fact that they don't want you to work your last two weeks has nothing to do with you, as a person. You don't owe them anything beyond what you already did.
Hell, I had to FIGHT to get paid for the two weeks, once I put in notice, for the last employer for whom I actually did that (nearly a decade ago: I'm happily self-employed now).
So, let it go, and I wish you the best with your new employer!
Regards,
dj
As unhappy as I was at my position, I felt it a matter of principle to speak to my boss directly, explain immediately that I was leaving and why. He spent a long time trying to talk me out of it but we parted on amicable terms. As we both had been able to have our say, there was no room for paranoia.
That's professional.
As the parent pointed out, cutting off your access is standard procedure. If they need you to do more of whatever your job responsibilities were, they'll ask you. I'm presuming you dropped your resignation on them without warning. If you discussed a departure with your boss beforehand (but, with job offer in your pocket), then a smoother signoff might have been worked out. If you were only a system user, rather than admin, they might have been less abrupt. As it stands, it's probably company policy to cut you off fast, least (the generic) "you" decide to depart in a less than professional manner.
Luke, help me take this mask off
I think it is not uncommon for companies to immediately let go of employees who give notice as a matter of policy, and there isn't anything you could have done that would not have them shut you out. I wouldn't worry about it, you did the right thing by giving them notice and I shouldn't take it personally.
Next time, given your company two MONTHS notice... that way, you'll get paid to stay at home for two months :)
What you did was all you could do.
I had a rude awakening after years in the bull market of 90's tech: I gave 3 months notice to a long time contractor and employer out of respect and deference.
Sadly, that was a hard lesson to learn, as the company car, expense accounts, server access, cell phone, customer list, and anything else they gave me was pulled. Then, while I was an "officed at home" road warrior engineer (who also managed to handle a good bit of IT from remote) I was told I was now an "hourly employee", had to report to the service department, and was issued a (gulp) UNIFORM.
Lesson learned:
It's business. Meet the standard of two weeks notice. Move on.
Second lesson learned:
This treatment is not indicative of what the company thinks of you. It's generally what the lawyers recommend happen when key people are dumped. I learned this one, because after I left them (early- I am not wearing a uniform!!), they called me with a massive contract with enough $$ to keep MY company going for about 2 years.
That has been my experience. IT people are considered if not "key" to be in very sensitive positions. Thus the reaction.
Another consultant who stuck it out.
"We are the Priests, of the Temples of Syrinx..."
...give them three weeks notice.
Enjoy your time off!
-Will
Is here. Even if you're a disgruntled employee, a resignation letter is not the venue for gripes.
And I agree with the post about that complaining about 2 weeks of free pay isn't much of a complaint!
why has two weeks notice become a standard? I mean, technically you don't work for the company anymore (or at least you won't in the near future) so you don't really have much responsibility for the work you do in those last two weeks. I mean obviously I wouldn't completely slack off if you plan on using them as a reference, but you certainly can't be expected to put out high quality work with virtually no incentive to do so.
I can understand the need for two weeks notice in job situation where if you leave immediately the are pretty much out in the cold as someone is NEEDED for you positition during those two weeks. But say for something like working at Target (which I have done in the past), virtually ANY other employee can fill your position in a heartbeat. So why the need for 2 weeks?
Aside from the practicality argument, there is also the unfairness. In this situation he got compensated for 2 weeks, but at some places (like target) you do not get compensated if you are laid off. Do they expect you to get a job the day after you're fired? Unless you've been applying secretly behind their backs that's almost impossible. Why should you give them 2 weeks notice when they barely give you 2 seconds?
As far as the submitter's question, you did a fine job of submitting a personal resignation. In a job where you handle sensitive data, if you resign, they no longer hold the "You're fired" card and thus you are considered untrustworthy. Sad really, that the assumption is your only loyalty to the company is not getting fired (though these days the company hardly shows you much love either). But alas, that's just the way it is.
Check out my site on Richard Stallman
You should have planted the rootkits, trojans, xploits, backdoors, accounts salami slices, cron'ed funds transfers to anonymous overseas accounts etc long before you gave notice!
-- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
What I learned from this comment is that I should resign a month and a half in advance and hope I get paid for it.
There are multiple schools of thought on this. One is that it is not good for the morale of remaining employees to continue working with someone who sees greener grass elsewhere. Another is that the likely new employer is a competitor and it is best to remove a competitor's promised employee from your organization. A third is that the employee rather expects to be dismissed with two weeks compensation to take a break before the new job, and it is the polite thing to do.
When someone leaves an organization for any reason, it is standard industrial hygiene to kill all access to company systems, even when the parting is amicable.
I don't see anything odd here. Sometimes companies need to keep people for the two weeks, but usually they pay them off, wish the departing comrade well, and go on.
Don't take their actions personally. It's not a reflection on you; it's a reflection on those with less scruples than you. Your employer's reaction to your resignation is somewhat paranoid, but when someone in your position offers their resignation, it's prudent for the company to revoke their access. It's too easy for an employer to be burned in that kind of scenario.
The fact that they're paying you for your two weeks is a sign of respect - reciprocal respect for your willingness to give them two weeks notice and observe that business formality. You did it right; no need to second-guess yourself.*** formica has quit IRC (connection reset by phear)
The places I have worked at and turned in a two week notice, it is usually a 2 week scramble to document everything I did and get some poor unqualified individual up to speed. On the last day I make sure that the new person in charge either disables all accounts I had access to or make sure that they changed the passwords.
You want to eliminate any possibility of doubt if something goes wrong after you leave.
So while their actions may be seem extreme, it really is for your protection as much as it is for theirs. I would not take it so personally.
by email.
I submitted my two weeks notice and gave them transition plan outline. About two days later I was called into a room with three HR reps, my manager, a lawyer, and the chief of security. Supposedly, I was working on sensitive information and the lawyer said that it would be prudent if I left immediately. Five minutes later, I was packing up my stuff under supervision of the chief of security and then promptly escorted to my car. They took my parking pass and id and bid me farewell. Of course I was paid for the rest of the two weeks.
No hard feelings, but with concerns over security nowadays, I don't blame employers for going through this extra step. I mean, IF I had done something malicious, what would their course of action be? Besides a lawsuit in which most cases side with the employee not the employer, they couldn't fire me because I had already quit.
You aren't supposed to give them a notice. Hell, I got fired once and they sure as hell didn't give me a two week notice on that shit.
The right way to leave your position is walking out at a crucial time, and setting some godawful cron ticking for about a week after you leave. That way, when the next chums contact your xboss for a reference, his only reply is "Oh, shit, I remember that guy! We were totally fucked when he left!"
This is EXACTLY how is should be handled. Do NOT let a leaving Sys Admin on you system. You did nothing wrong. They did nothing wrong. Enjoy your end of the year festivities.
This
I understand you may feel a little hurt by your employer's actions, but really the other replies here are correct. 1) They have no reason to put corporate information systems at risk no matter how good of a job you did and how trustworthy you feel you are. It's a hard pill to swallow, but they did the best practice for security. 2) This really doesn't belong on Slashdot. Isn't this a technical and science news forum? Nothing personal and I don't think you could have done anything different as far as resigning goes. What's unprofessional is walking off the job and you didn't do that. Happy vacation!
Some companies will do this as a matter of policy, some won't. That's just the way it goes-- it's not personal, it's policy. And believe me, it's not just tech jobs, it's any job where you have access to business-critical stuff, which is just about anyone.
Also, the policy for a two-weeks notice resignation may be different from a "Boss, I'm interested in moving to Vermont in six months. I'd like to be able to refer people to you for a reference. Of course, I'll be eager to help you look for and train my successor." They might show you the door for that, too, but the point is, context matters.
Next time, find out the policy. And if you think you're going to be rushed out, ensure that you have made copies of anything that you need to take with you and BRING IT HOME BEFORE YOU TELL THEM ANYTHING. Of course, I'm not talking about copies of code you wrote for them, just anything that's justifiably yours after you leave.
Then submit your letter of resignation and see what they do.
I would have been happy with that outcome. Who wouldn't want to have couple of weeks of paid holiday.
What you've described is normal behaviour for security-wise systems area. Whilst the company might have a policy where staff work their last fortnight, most computer-info areas I know of do as described above - whilst *you* can be trusted not to do nasty stuff on the way out, procedurally they can't take that chance, in case a departing sysadmin does hold a grudge. That said, my last outfit my admin accesses to database systems (SQL) are still open via web of all things. Have written to people about it, but am ignored. I was expecting to be shut off and paid out early, however to my surprise, not only did they keep my accesses, they never got a replacement... and now they wonder why their systems are in such disrepair. Truly a Dilbert moment.
So, let's get this straight. You put in your resignation (professionally, as you say) and your employer cut off your system level access. Seems like paranoia on your boss's part. On the flip side, COOL! Without access, you can't do a whole lot. Enjoy your 2 weeks paid time, and don't piss anyone off.
Since you didn't tell us the whole story, there may be something you've done in the past that raises a red flag. Maybe you've only worked there a couple months, or you've gotten written up for something that causes concern. Again, I repeat, COOL!
Now excuse me while I go to my job where I actually have to work because they weren't nice enough to take away my login credentials and pay me anyway.
Trust me... the folks who actually mean something... they make them stay the 2 weeks and write documentation or train others, etc.
Whilst it's not unusual for someone in the IT industry to resign and be walked out the door on the same day (I've seen my share of it where I work currently) allow me to present a counterpoint...
Also for the same company, one of our programmers wanted to go backpacking overseas with his wife for six months and asked his manager how he should go about it: could he just take unpaid leave and come back, or should he just quit?
After him meeting with his boss and the CTO it was decided he'd put in three months' notice and keep working until he was ready to go. I think that was a big mistake: he knew he was going and felt didn't have anything to worry about. His attitude slid to "any old thing will do" and twelve months later we're still finding and cleaning-up some of the crap he left behind.
That's pretty much standard procedure for a lot of places. To me it's a pleasent suprise when that DOESN'T happen. Anyway, I never submit my resignation without planning on being cut off lock stock and barrel immideately. Plan on it in the future. Back up and delete any personal data, clear your browser cache, wipe the free space on your harddrive, clean out your desk, get your benefits questions answered, THEN submit your resignation with the expectation that you will be sent home for two weeks, and you won't get blindsided.
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
What you should have done is to have copied all of your mp3s and ornpay off the system *BEFORE* you gave your notice. ;-)
Sean
did you give them cause to think that you might "do something terrible" to their orgranisation. If you did no such thing, then accept that is how the world (or at least that organisation) works, and enjoy your two weeks leave - leave may or may not be scarce at your next job but this is a good opportunity for yourself to unwind between jobs. If you either don't need to unwind, or need the cash, see if they'll let you start your new job early.
Some companies are set up to err on the side of caution, and sometimes the rules don't make sense. (I've found that "Human Resources" in some organisations can have a culture that means every decision they make doesn't make any sense externally).
If on the other hand you did do something to make them believe you might damage the company, then it isn't your resignation that you need to focus on when it comes to professionalism.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Step 1: Find an IT job
.. BRILLIANT !
Step 2: Work diligently until given access to critical systems
Step 3: Start acting suspiciously//unhappy w/ management
Step 4: Give your resignation... ONE YEAR early!
Step 5: Take 6 Month Vacation
Step 6: Spend 6 Months looking for your next $sys$target employer.
Rule 2: Writing a spec is like writing code for a brain to execute.
It's the way of the world now. Even in non-IT positions, you should clean out your
personal stuff well in advance, check around home to be sure you don't have any of
their equipment, etc.
If THEY need you to login again for some reason, they'll handle it.
You resigned professionally. You offered to work two more weeks (the typical professional offer). They said no thanks, but here we'll pay you for two more weeks anyways. It's a fair deal.
You're probably dealing with feelings like you weren't needed if they could drop you on a day's notice. (be honest with yourself) You'll just have to get over that.
-everphilski-
A lot of people are saying, "Of course they disabled your access: security issues." But if someone leaving a company were truly intending to go on a h4x0ring spree, wouldn't he or she do this *before* giving the two weeks' notice? Just sayin'...
Telltale Games: Bone, Sam and Max
The next time you resign from an IT job, there are things you should do before you resign if you want them to be done --
-- take your personal computer hardware, books, papers, etc. home. Before you resign. If you wait to do it after, you may not even get the chance (as they show you the door), and you'll have to argue with them about it. And if you do get the chance, they may be watching you like a hawk and you'll have to justify it.
-- same goes for your personal files and stuff you want to save. Save it off the network and computers BEFORE you resign. Some companys are cool about this sort of thing, some aren't. Don't take the risk. This is also a good thing to do if you get wind of layoffs coming up that you might be involved in.
-- If there are any projects you want to see completed before you leave, complete them before you resign.
My manager arranged a farewell lunch on the day I came back. About 80% of my co-workers in my division met me in the lobby, my manager took us all out to a local restaurant. A lot of good wishes, hugs, and handshakes were exchanged.
Though most of my accounts were killed, my company ran a subscription based web-site and they left the free subscription I had as an employee active.
My resignation was no more professional than yours. My employer was just a lot cooler.
The one thing I did... I kept the resignation short and friendly. Said I was leaving to pursue some personal goals, valued the time I had been at the company, and would do what I could to help ensure a smooth transition. I never got negative, critical, or implied I could do better. I tried to make sure my departure was on a friendly note, so if I needed references at some future date, I hadn't burned any bridges.
- Greg
Start a happiness pandemic
My last job I had to give 3 months notice, be thankfull you had 2 weeks and got it as paid holiday.
I've known small companies that, when someone resigns, immediately change not only passwords but also all the door locks and any other form of access. This also works to protect you. It's a lot harder to say you came back and stole, damaged, etc. company property if they denied you access.
Having said thai, my experience has been the exact opposite:
Layoff 1: I knew my termination date several months in advance and was terminated with 3-months severance. Additionally, all access rights remained unchanged and I continued to work part-time as a consultant for a couple more years.
Layoff 2: 30% of the company laid off. My employer suggested that I could continue to work during my 2-months severance since "it's always easier to find a job when you are working." (This was at the height of the dot-com boom.) I politely counteroffered that I would continue to work as long as they continued to pay me and at the time either one of us cut the cord, severance would kick in. I finally dragged myself out the door on a Friday 4-months later and started work at my new company the following Monday.
Layoff 3: The dot-com boom couldn't last but we didn't really go completely bust. Last day was on a Monday as we hauled the last of the equipment out of the offices. No severance but I started my new job on Tuesday and continued as a consultant for the dot-com (still had my passwords, colo access and everything). It's been nearly 5-years and they just pulled me back for a bit of additional consulting.
~~~~~~~
"You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
I resigned from a developer/pretend-sys-admin position with a fairly paranoid large company, and ended up working through my two weeks.
I had root access to dozens of machines including a few high visibility web properties and didn't have to hand that in until my exit interview. This was after another, now-former, employee had accidentally (hmm) deleted over a million files from said production environment.
However in many places it's just policy that you dont work after they know you are leaving, and that's just the way it is.
The alternative is to let you continue to have complete unfettered access to all of their confidential data.
Then maybe some has a "bad feeling" about you, or you say something innocent that makes them suspiscious.
Then a week later they're spending $5-10k for a computer forensics investigator to determine what if anything you took on your way out, and whether or not they can sue and/or prosecute you for it.
Then they spend another $1k on writing new termination policies, which end up amounting to what you described.
First thing to do is to make sure you have everything in order BEFORE you resign. In particular, remove any personal data (which shouldn't be there but, let's face it, probably is) and back up (to machines under your control) any data on company machines which you believe you are entitled to. That way you're prepared if they do boot you immediately.
I always go for a fairly minimal resignation letter, of the general form, "I resign my position at 'blah' effective (now + 2 weeks), have a nice day. I think last time I put "to pursue another opportunity" in there. So far I've never had an employer revoke my access immediately or tell me to forget the two weeks. But I think that there's always a chance they'll do so, either because they're generally paranoid, because someone else screwed them in the past, or because you've been muttering about how you're going to "get those bastards" for the past month or so. Anyway, you really don't have much to complain about -- you got your two weeks pay without having to do the work.
http://www.watergate.info/nixon/resignation-letter .shtml
x = x + ++x;
Honestly though. It's largely going to depend on the size of the company you work for. If they can afford to go with one less sysadmin for 2 weeks, then you might as well assume that your ass is on the way out.
I've run into that situation before. They decided to say "Ok, you can go now." and I *didn't* get paid for the remaining two weeks that I had expected to get paid for.
The fun of working in an 'at-will' state.
Generally they think you'll get 'short timers syndrome' and not do anything anyway. It's no wonder people just up & quit these days. The acts of courtesy that an employee extends to a company are very rarely returned.
He made a professional resignation, they said no thanks but paid him for two weeks anyways. This is standard business practice and was financially beneficial for him. (two weeks free pay?)
What he's probably dealing with is the feeling of rejection: if they could drop him on a days notice was he really needed? He'll just have to be honest with himself about that but he will just have to get over that himself. Again its a standard business practice in many places and not a reflection of his character.
-everphilski-
Having the option of leaving has been enough to soothe me past some rough spots, even though I never chose to exercise that option. It reminds me that I'm the only one who can control (and the only one responsible for) my life.
You might consider doing this with your new position, too.
"Prepare for the worst - hope for the best."
If you give them two weeks notice, and they're paranoid enough to shut you out like that, then you should enjoy your two weeks off and to heck with 'em!!
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
I've given notice to a few jobs in my life, being paid and released is a lot better than being forced to stick around and treated even worse than before. Some managers can be vindictive after you've resigned, especially if they were the reason you quit in the first place. Enjoy your vacation and realize that even if it was the CEO that had resigned, someone would probably decide to pull his access as well.
I think the reason this is done, even though it seems illogical on the surface, is because of the company's responsibility to act with "due diligence" in regards to security.
If you as an employee compromise the system or act as some sort of mole or corporate spy, after you're busted when the shareholders come down on your boss, he can say "Well, hey we had no way of knowing he was bent, we had no warning that this was about to happen. It could happen to anybody."
But let's say you put in your resignation, then backdoored their network on your way out because they didn't cut off your access until two weeks later. This time when the Powers That Be come looking for blood, your boss is SOL: he could try saying "well, we had no idea he was bent..." but the shareholders are just going to respond "He had just turned in his resignation! He was on his way out the door! Why did he still have access?" And your boss becomes the next one on the chopping block, and depending on the nature of the business possibly liable for fines as well.
So really your boss, and your boss' boss, and probably their boss' boss, all the way up the CoC, are just covering their asses by pulling your access as soon as they get a hint that you're not going to be a career employee.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
Other than not taking a job at a paranoid company, probably not much. While this sort of behavior makes sense for someone who was fired, it is idiotic for someone who resigned. Obviously if you'd wanted to be nasty, you could have done it before you gave notice.
So the short answer is: don't take it personally. The problem is theirs. Take it as a sign that quitting was a good idea and enjoy the extra two weeks off.
The cake is a pie
I've never had that problem. Over the past several years I've given anywhere from 2-6 weeks notice at various employers, and my access was never terminated until my final day. I was usually working full days over the final period, helping to take care of all the loose ends (like documenting things that only I knew that probably should have been documented earlier, transitioning projects and tasks to other people, helping interview replacements, etc).
I can't imagine an employer locking a sysadmin-type out of the company (physically or electronically) immediately on being given notice, unless your past actions gave them a reason to be highly distrustful of you. Even then, simple logic dictates that an admin bent on revenge who wanted to cause damage would plant the seeds before turning in the notice, which makes your CIO's actions irrational either way.
11*43+456^2
Are you really a computer professional? Most people I know would rather have their access taken away than be blamed for problems on systems for which they are not responsible. In many situations people I know have *asked* that access be taken away if it is not done as you have described. If you had something "left to do", was it work related? Or are you bothered by the treatment in general? While I do agree that it is poor treatment to treat someone suspiciously because of a *voluntary* resignation, it's really not all that bad. At least you have severed ties cleanly and got paid for your two weeks.
Why don't you just log back in using the back door you installed, restore your access, and finish the work you need to do for the next two weeks? After all, it wouldn't be ethical to just take their money for sitting on your hands.
You did leave a back door, didn't you?
I gave 3 weeks notice. They escorted me out of the building within 20 minutes of my handing over a letter of resignation to my supervisor (I was going to a competitor). Yes, I got paid in full for the whole 3 weeks. My only regret was not giving 4 weeks notice.
HR gave me grief for not giving 2 weeks notice, said I was greedy. I offered to work out those 3 weeks, they showed me the door. Hey, I dont make the rules I just take advantage of them.
1. Get a job as a sysadmin
2. Give 4 years warning of your resignation
3. Profit!
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
Is today a slow news day, or are the editors smoking somthing?
Take the money and run :)
The time I have had to work after giving in my resignation at my last four jobs was,
- 3 months (Systems Programmer in the UK)
- 2 weeks (Tech Lead in Corporate America)
- 2 weeks (Architect in an US startup)
- 2 weeks (Consultant for the US branch of an international consulting company)
Why do I not get shutdown and given a paid vacation?
All they really did was validate you wanting to leave. Giving 2 weeks notice in writing through the proper channels (as you say you did) is enough. If they are not preofessional enough to deal with it; fine. You did nothing wrong.
that's right... he isnt.
managers are just jackasses and dont have a grip on reality.
The reason being that the vast majority of corporations would be classified as criminal psychopaths if they were human beings. There is even a big documentary/movie on this point.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
It doesn't seem like it'd be that hard - hand the boss the letter and tell him/her what the situation is. Make sure that they know that you need access to the computers over the next few weeks if they want you to do your job over that period. On the other hand - What poster 1 said. You got paid for not working. How bad can that be?
http://www.TheGamerNation.com/Forums
The first tech company I "left" was a real winner. After two rounds of layoffs (more on that in a second), I received a call at home on the weekend. The first one said, "This is so-and-so from HR at the company. I really need to speak to you as soon as possible. Please call me at home: XXX-XXX-XXXX." The second one said, "This is so-and-so again. I really don't want to do this as a voicemail, but I have no choice. Dug-Its-Own-Grave, Inc. has decided to shift gears and refocus and you aren't part of that new direction. You should receive a sunday delivery from fedex [or whatever] with your severance information. All the information you need is in there. Please don't come in tomorrow." Joke was on them: I wouldn't have been coming in that day anyway since I was out of the country on vacation for the past week and a half and the next week.
The first round of layoffs at Dug-Its-Own-Grave, Inc. consisted of everyone in the office receiving an email to go to some big office-wide meeting as some conference room too small for the whole company. In actuality, there were 6 or 7 rooms being used. 2 were for people being laid off. The rest were to explain that everyone was to go back to their desks, take their stuff -- probably best to take your company laptops, too -- and leave immediately so that those who were laid off could pack up and be escorted out by the police without being oogled. I had had the combination to the server room there for months because I sysadmined a few project machines. I had to get in that afternoon to do some work -- and couldn't. The code had been changed and IT wouldn't give me the code or let me in. One of the few cases when IT was in on it with HR, I suppose.
When I resigned from my next position, it was as one of two sysadmins of a company. Out of courtesy to the other guy (who was often in over his head even while I was there), I gave four weeks' notice. I had hoped that during those four weeks, they'd advertise, maybe do some interviews, etc. My co-worker was a really nice guy, and I didn't want my leaving to screw him over completely. They did nothing with those four weeks. My accounts remained active. root wasn't changed. Nothing. In fact, I was still able to ssh into my work accounts for a few months after leaving. (The first time was an accident -- ran the wrong ssh command and got into the work server. After that, I checked once in a while to see if they had finally figured it out. Never bothered checking whether they had changed root. didn't care. The password was always impossible to remember while I was there....
Bottom line: Some places are paranoid. Others aren't smart enough to be paranoid.
Unfortunately, they have insurance liability if they don't lock you out and something bad happens.
Because someone, somewhere gave notice and then got mad during the last 2 weeks and did something nasty.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
burn the place down!
The big mistake - only giving two weeks notice.
Always give as much notice as you can; at the worst they'll only pay you for the minimum notice period (which in this country is 4-6 weeks generally), but they may end up paying you for more.
I always think of this as being one of the perks of being in IT - you get some extra holidays whenever you change jobs.
What about this situation, this has happened to me.
I resigned from my first 'big' job a few years ago at one of Australia's largest Television stations. I left on bad terms since. I had to give 4 weeks notice, which I did, and after the 4 weeks were up and I was legally unemployeed my former boss tried to legally force me into working Christmas and New Years - I declined and that left a bitter taste in his mouth
It's now been a few years on, and I state I worked at this place on my resume but give no telephone reference. When I apply for a job, 9 times out of 10 the place that is interested in me will ring up the station and my former boss will give me a bad rap.
Is there anything I can do about this?
Especially if you're a sysadmin, know the root password, etc., when you give your notice they'll often walk you out immediately. You gave them two weeks notice, which is what you are expected to do. If they prefer for you to spend those two weeeks at home, that's their choice.
(It'd be another story if you'd given two weeks notice and they terminated you immediately without pay. that's actually illegal.)
What about a transition period? How will his replacement cope by being thrown to the wolves so to speak? A more prudent approach would have been to remove most of his access so that he could still create documentation and send email. It does not sound like this guy was disgruntled. If he had been, the damage would have been done before notice was given. There is no reason for such a harsh reaction. I would have considered it an insult to my honour.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
There's not much you can do if your company reacts to your departure as an "act of betrayal". In my experience, fewer companies are behaving this way these days although there are still a few (including a former employer of my own - I recently had a similar experience).
I really don't understand this, it seems like a very bad business decision to me - ostensibly the reason I was given was fear of sabotage, but it seems to me that if you are intent on sabotage you are much more likely to do it before (or in lieu of) giving notice. It would seem to make much more sense to make use of those two weeks as an orderly transition period.
I think what it really comes down to is (as an earlier poster suggested) an immature corporate culture. Let's face it: the whole job security myth flies in the face of everything we've seen over the past half century. Any CEO who promises that your job will be safe is either lying outright or deluded. Companies die, they conduct massive layoffs - this is a good thing. It frees up resources to go into more productive channels. You can't expect that your employer will have a job for as long as you want, and it's unreasonable for them to expect you to work for them for as long as they want. To respond in this manner when someone gives notice is just silly - employment is not a marriage, it's a business relationship.
But the good part is, you basically get two weeks paid vacation...
Just stop going.
which basically states that they can just call you in the morning and tell you not to bother coming in, ever.
Likewise, you don't have to bother coming in, just call them and tell them you're history.
That doesn't engender "warm and fuzzies." That engenders paranioa. On both sides but much more on the employee's side.
If you're performing an essential function, they could be screwed.
If you're depending on your paycheck, you could be screwed.
Since the latter scenario is more likely to be the case, they're more likely to be the screwers and you're more likely to be the screwey. (Since the abolition of slavery, that's the real hold they have over the "working man.")
If you can afford to pull a "Johnny Paycheck" on your employer, you can be the screwer and they can be the screwey. (Since they'd never pay you well enough for that, it takes an accident and/or some luck to be in that position.)
"Right to Work" is the legal other term but it's not much better, unless you're a farm owner's kid and need to take some time off to help on the farm.
Then your employer pretty much has to take you back in some capacity. But you should expect to be paid less if you do come back.
Sucks don't it?
Welcome to Capitalism.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
In the UK, 2 weeks notice is pretty standard as a probationary period. One month is standard for employees who have been there for longer than probation. Add a month for each year service on top of that for a lot of places.
Therefor, if you were on probation, then 2 weeks notice to someone who they dont know too well isn't worth it to the company making them work it out. Come to think about it, 2 weeks isnt worth making anybody work for notice period when considering potential risks to the company. If you have a 2 week notice period then you're obviously pretty disposable. (Unless you have an asshat boss that hates you and wants you to suffer and makes you work.)
Most large companies only allow an existing employee to confirm that you did work at such and such company and for so long. If you're lucky, they'll also confirm your salary.
All your close coworkers that know how good you are at problem-solving, how quickly you finished your projects, or how much money you managed to save the company are now bound and gagged by corporate policy.
You can pretty much leave that "recommendations available upon request" line off your resume.
I worked in a small (~10 programmers). And when things got bad (.com bubble burst) I was one of the ones to get laid off. Since it was a small company and everyone knew me they gave me the option of not staying the 2 weeks notice they gave. But they did hint that they wanted me gone.
No harm, no foul. I left on good terms and got paid to look for another job for 2 weeks.
In a larger place that I worked prior (tech support), when someone left b/c of another job at a competitor, they got walked off the floor by security. This pretty much happened as soon as HR was made aware.
Quite frankly, given the number of crazies out there (not saying you're one), I'm surprised given your access you weren't walked out immediately, never mind let in the next day.
Sad how it is, it is the way of things now adays. Nobody trusts anyone else anymore.
I've had the pleasure of telling many bosses that I was leaving. In every case I told them in person, never through a letter. This way I could explain why I was leaving, I could give them a chance to convince to me to stay, and we could discuss what they needed from me during the rest of my time there. I think you should have done the same thing. Submitting a letter to HR is very impersonal. It probably wasn't somebody in HR who made the decision to hire you. They'll have you fill out paperwork anyways, so it's not like you have to worry about them not being in the loop. Nope, the first person you need to talk to is your boss and you really need to talk.
I stayed several years at each job I've had in IT since graduating with my BSCS degree, and at each one I've resigned from, I worked hard until the very last day. Even two of the jobs, I retained systems access after I was gone and started at my new job, since I always helped train my replacements for the transition, and even did a bit of contract work on the side for the former employers afterwards too. ...but then the kind of IT jobs that the employers are such paranoid idiots, usually clue you in to that fact before you ever go to work for them in the first place in the wording of all their NDAs, non-compete contracts, etc, they try to make you sign before they give you the job. Read carefully all that stuff before you ever take the job with them, and you can usually gauge what kind of an outfit they really are before you ever get into bed with them, by "reading between the lines".
It was my belief that if you offered your two weeks, and are willing and able to work for those two weeks, they are required to either keep you for the two weeks, pay you for the two weeks and ask you to stay home, or fire/lay you off. If they decided not to pay you and send you home, you could file for unemployment. So, they are pretty much required to give you the money.
Past that, you obviously didn't do anything wrong here, and the same has happened to myself and probably most other IT people. It's quite silly, really. When you're hired, they know nothing about you and yet after only a short few days (usually) they have to give you the proper access to perform your duties. No problem there. Yet after a year or more working with you, if you say you're leaving they immediately don't trust you. It doesn't make sense, but some managers are just stupid like that. Some even feel as though you've betrayed them by advancing your career, or it's a hit to their egos or something.
Some companies take advantage of the two weeks, some rush you out the door without letting you say goodbye.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Make sure all of your TPS reports are in before you leave.
Before handing in your resignation next time...
Ah well, people learn by falling now and then...
Disabling your accounts and sending you home is protection for you as well. If something was to happen accidently while you were still there then you would be immediately targeted as the culprit and possibly could be grounds for court action. In this way both you and the company are protected.
Leaving a technical job is always bitter/sweet. The tough times are reflected upon as being grist for the mill and the fun times being light and merry. Hopefully there was a balance of both while there. Reflect upon it joyously and move on.
The last company I was with that had a big termination plan had an escort for each technical person straight to the door and on to the parking lot and the escort stayed until the car with the tech departed. Personal things were gathered up and mailed to the departing soul at their home of record.
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make
I thought this was an interesting tidbit from his blog..
Well. . . I finally did it, I put in my resignation officially with the company I work for yesterday evening. By 10:00 AM today, I am at home, nothing to do except write in my blog. Yup, after giving the customary, and somewhat professional (I honestly don't mind giving 3-4 weeks notice), I had my accounts disabled, and my permissions removed from the system today by the CIO. I understand my position, and I understand that there are possible bad things that I could do to the system, but if I'm courteous enough to give notice that I was resigning, why would you kill my account and permissions, without forewarning? I immediately went and spoke with the HR Personnel person, and I explained her my situation, and she said, well. . . go home, and collect your pay, you will get paid for the next 2 weeks of work that you are missing. I was more than professional with them, and I was proper in giving them notice of my resignation, and how do they pay me back? They immediately take away any and all permissions, and accounts that I may have access to.
The HR person told me that this was a very unprofessional move on their part (the CIO's part), and that they don't condone that activity, she notified the corporate headquarters, told them the situation, and they agreed with her assessment, send him home, and send off his pay (continue paying me for as long as my notice was). The HR lady said it made them look bad as far as their corporate policy goes. I spoke with the co-worker that was responsible for disabling my account (he also is very close to the CIO) and he didn't see why I was so upset about the situation. I feel as though that is a terribly bad judgement call, and that it lacks a sense of professionalism. Anyways, as of right now, I'm unemployed. . .
Well, as you read the replies, you notice that you have a lot of jaded, insulting pricks responding with things like, "You're an idiot for expecting anything less." And while they're expressing their opinion in a rather sophomoric manner with little more than a 3rd grade mentality.. they're mostly right in the message that it's pretty common to be treated that way. On the other hand, there are still companies out there who treat their employees with respect. The last company I left, I retained my full control and system access right up to my last day of my 2 weeks. I was leaving for another position, as well, and they knew it. Anyway.. I really just wanted to respond and say it's not THAT stupid a question and all these guys gettin' all high and mighty on you are just actin' like children.
Down with the career politician! SUPPORT TERM LIMITS
When the guys with guns (US Marshals) and SEC show up to shut you down, just do what they say.
BTW - Fuck you Van Lewis, III.
[eom]
being in the field of information security i would have to say.... what did you expect? if iw as consulting a company that didn't due what yours did it would be an immediate red flag.
as many others have said.. you got paid, the world moves on.
If that's the policy, the Right Move is to give them TWO MONTHS of notice!
Unfortunately, as almost everyone here has said, this tends to happen quite a bit, and not often only because they don't trust you. I work for a large corporation, and more often than not accounts get disabled due to our database systems' merge at midnight. Every night, our active directory server merges with our HR server: if the HR database does not match ours for a given employee, the HR database overwrites ours. So, when you turn in your two week notice, the HR database changes you to terminated (effective X date). While the date is listed, our system just sees terminated, and all access is automatically revoked (as a contractor, it happens to me every six months automatically). Unfortunately, its not an easy problem for us to fix, mostly because, even once we have you unrevoked (after a manager AND hr verifies you still work there), you get revoked again at midnight due to the nightly merge. Typically, when we get a call from someone about this, we get it from the person 10 times over their two week resignation period.
Of course, I would understand completely why a high-level IT employee would have all access revoked the moment he or she quits. I'm a low level employee in the IT department, and have access to change every single user's windows password (meaning I can pretend to be them), not to mention access to their security questions, SSNs, and the list goes on. And I only have access to a tenth of what my superiors next to me have. If they know I'm leaving in two weeks, and God only knows what havoc I could cause before I'm gone, I would completely understand having my access revoked.
I'm with everyone else. Enjoy your two weeks off, and don't take this personally. Sometimes, its just a side-effect of working in a computer-operated world.
You actually did do the professional thing (it seems). Your employer also did the right thing (it seems). Giving two weeks notice is the way to go, and if you expressed yourself politely, and gave a well-reasoned explanation for your departure, then everything here is as it ultimately should be. Your employer has an obligation to their other employees, as well as to the company. They must take the actions that are appropriate to protect these interests, and sadly, nowadays, that means immediately terminating your access. There are exceptions, but given the threat environment, coupled with the increasing regulatory demands placed on all businesses, sometimes giving you two weeks of paid vacation is the best that a company can do. Your best approach at this point is to try to understand their situation, and thank them for the opportunities they have presented you (even if they haven't helped your career at all). Cheers, mate, and good luck with your next endeavours.
Paper Pusher
I'm speaking here as both a business owner and a former IT employee.
If you go the burocratic path, expect to be treated by burocratic procedures. In the "right and wrong" what you did was right, and so was what the company did.
Thinking outside the burocratic box, tho, there are some important things that can be done, if possible, to make your departure more friendly, and issue that you leave an open door behind you:
1) Try never to leave a project in the middle of it
2) Always talk to your boss. Explain while you are leaving, and ask what would be the best time for you to leave. If possible, try to acomodate that.
3) Always make sure you boss is the first to hear about it. Learning about it through an HR communication will make him feel cheated.
4) Asking your boss if he wants you to do anything to make the transition easier
These ideas will help you to keep the door open, if you ever want to get back to work at the same company, if other companies decide to phone your former boss to ask for references, or even if you start a company and decide to provide services to your former employer.
morcego
Part of the problem with the popular alternative (role-based computing, where a designated operation is associated with one or more designated roles, and - ideally - no superuser exists at all) is that nobody has figured out a way to do this efficiently. There tend to be very few IT staff, relative to the number of roles, so role-based computing tends to involve a lot of account switching.
In the end, though, you really don't want system administrators mucking about with content, or content administrators changing the system. If you could just guarantee that, then the threat of a rogue system admin is greatly lessened. Not eliminated, sure, but definitely reduced.
Of course, this begs three important questions. First, what company is so oblivious to the mental welfare of their employees that they could not distinguish a responsible employee from a potential psychopath? (Other than all of them, that is.)
Secondly, what company is so degenerate as to turn someone they've obviously trusted for some considerable time - and therefore know pretty well - into a madman with a vendetta? Sure, some people are evil, some are malicious, and others are ill, but all of those fall into question one for any meaningful timeframe. It seems reasonable to assume that those who are left have been subject to some level of degradation for retaliation on the way out to be plausible. In which case, fixing abuse in the workplace would seem to be a superior solution.
The third question is why are mission-critical systems being left to a single individual? Even outside of hostility, accidents happen and mistakes occur. If a system is so damn mission-critical that any level of threat - however remote the possibility - is unacceptable, then you should be making it dual-key. Then, if a single admin goes nuts, it doesn't make any difference. The other admin doesn't confirm the operation, so nothing happens.
So, yeah, with all the existing systems out there and traditional IT departments with their dodgy office politics, when a person resigns, it is certainly proper and correct to place them on leave with pay. Where companies have high turnover, it is also the proper and correct way to go bankrupt - you're doing less and spending more.
A better design of environment (from the computer OS to the politics of the workplace) should all but eliminate the need of such mechanisms, but since these do not exist in most places, that option does not exist either.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
One guy I worked with wrote a three page letter detailing the company and all senior management's flaws. Depending on how big the pond you live in is, this is not a good idea ...
C
"Logic bomb."
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
I can understand a company doing this (sort of), but I have never seen it. And I have worked at places that process some very sensitive information. Usually you spend your last two weeks finishing up as much as you can and making sure someone else understands what you are working on. If you really wanted to steal something, you could do it before you give your notice.
I did have one disturbing thing happen once. I came into the office on my last day at work and my workstation would not boot. I was afraid people would think that I had trashed it out of spite. It turns out that the Sys Admin had backed it up and wiped it. He was preparing it to send over to another department. So I was off the hook.
This is an interesting question, since I just changed jobs, having left a position as a Custom Software Development Project Manager for a Fortune 100 company. I sent the notice to my current manager and previous manager via e-mail on a Friday night (sent it encrypted with receipt notification). I alerted them to my decision, ensured them that the reason for my leaving was about a new opportunity (and not because I thought somebody was a PHB/Dolt/Bozo/Insert-insult-here).
The following Monday morning, I sat down with both of them and went through it all verbally. I gave them two weeks notice in my e-mail, which would have made my last day the Friday after Thanksgiving. Per company policy, I had to work the next Monday to get paid for those days, so I agreed to this (after checking with the new place), and then got back to work.
I will point out that I know this is an unusual situation, particularly at a company of this size. In my case, there was a significant level of trust that went up several levels above me, prompting one of the people up the chain to send me a very personal and heartfelt message of thanks for my years of service. For the next two weeks, I was working an average of 10 hours/day, including a few hours on the day after Thanksgiving.
How did I get this kind of treatment, along with an invitation to return if my new adventure didn't pan out? I established a long history of trustworthy behavior. In addition to this, the project that I was working on had extremely high priority, and we didn't have anyone else who had the same combination of knowledge and skills that I did for that particular project (a combination of reverse-engineering and product familiarity).
Now, to be fair, it would not have surprised me if they had said "sorry, you're gone" on that Monday morning, and sent me packing. In many ways, it would have made my life easier. On the other hand I would have missed out on the "Top 10 List" read aloud during my farewell lunch, where we all got several good laughs at my expense.
Even more important, I would have missed the pleasure of working even more closely with some of my best friends, on a highly-valuable project, utilizing the limit of my abilities.
Now, on to the future...
Tim
Upper Deck
I've never been locked out from my accounts. In fact, management usually want me to work like a madman to tie up the loose ends, and to transition as much to someone else. I've heard of it in the banking sector, and other places where paranoia is normal. I think a lot of it is "control freak" thinking: they no longer have the leverage of being able to fire you, so how can they not be sure that you won't become a loose canon? It has always seemed pretty stupid to me.
As for the more general question of how to resign, I have had more experience with that than I care to think about. I've never been a true contractor, although I have worked full time for meat shop companies that have placed me with larger companies
I simply write a letter saying that I'm leaving. I typically address it to my direct manager, except at one company where the CEO made a smartass comment about "if you don't want to work these hours, give your resignation to BJ" where BJ was HR. So when I left, I addressed it to her. But in all cases, I try to speak with my manager, his boss, and so on. There is no reason to beat around the bush, and mostly they like the "personal touch". Remember, you may need these folks for references later. And this is also a good point to mention that if they get in a crunch in the near future, you can come back on evenings/weekends and lend a hand at a very lucrative rate. If they're stuck a month after you leave, they might make it worth your while to come in for a few hours on a saturday and fight whatever fire is happening. Although it has never happened to me, I have heard about it.
As much as possible, I try to pick a calm period to leave. I don't do this for my management's sake, but for the co-workers who will have to pick up the extra workload. I usually get along well with my co-workers, so I have no desire to stick it to them. But if push comes to shove, leave when is best for your. Being nice is fine, but don't get carried away.
One thing I learned to do is to specify my last date, so there is no question about that. I know of one guy who turned in his resignation without a date, and since he was pretty crappy, management decided that it was effective immedietely and showed him the door. I guess that he could have fought, saying he meant in 2 weeks, but didn't. I don't leave that open for interpreation.
One thing I don't do is cut back my hours too much. I once worked with someone who gave his notice, and then he showed up at 10am, took a 2 hour lunch and was gone at 4pm. While there was some "pay back" for all the shit he had done and not gotten anything for, that seemed mighty unprofessional to me.
Good luck with your next resignation.
- doug
You were the subject to a problem that confronts all of us in the United States. The way it works is the least common denominator is found, rules constructed, and those rules apply uniformly to all.
Little old ladies are asked to remove their shoes at the airports because they might be hiding bombs there.
A pile of sand has to be labeled as a hazardous material, including its melting point, etc, because silica particles have been shown to cause cancer, and so it is treated just like any other toxic material.
Try building a house some time, and find out all the strange little arbitrary rules in place that have the effect of drastically increasing the cost of the house.
Anyway, don't take it personally. Use the time for some personal development, or just to have some fun.
Ed Barbar, President and General Manager, Furnit USA
1) Before resigning, no matter how professionally, ensure you have all your data with you. No, not their data, just yours, if you used their resources for your own stuff. Then, regardless of how they react, you will have nothing to worry about.
2) Choose your employer wisely. If you see any signs of them acting inhumane with other employees, leave, and do it as described under 1).
Simpy
Don't feel bad unless they have security come up and escort you to the door. Two weeks notice is given to allow your employer time to find a replacement. If they don't need you to stay around, then they will frequently simply let you stop working right away. It really doesn't hurt anything and I view it more as a courtesy from the employer rather than a penalty, since really it hurts them a lot more than it hurts you. When they escort you to the door though, that is a bit insulting when you were leaving on good terms.
"What I want to know is, how do you computer and IT professionals out there put in your notice of resignation...and not get immediately shutdown, and shunned away from the computers?"
You quit, yet want to insist on still working? Make up your mind. This kind of behaviour will make people even more suspicious about your motives and potential hidden agendas.
This is not and unusual or even an interesting perspective to the common scenario. The professional thing to do is realize how replacable and expendible you are. Think about it, if they truly couldn't have done without you or a replacement were prohibitively expensive they would have kept you around as long as they could.
Be more aware of the common practices of your employeer and the industry you work in.
Why did you take this so personally? Are you offended that the company decided to assert their control over the situation and have the last word? Deep down, are you a control freak?
The professional thing would be for CIO to not be smoking dope and getting all paranoid.
Victory is gained, not in knowing your opponents next move, but in preempting them.
Always pay attention to how people leaving your organization are treated. Most places I've worked, IT and otherwise, did the same thing. You at least got paid for the period of your notice, most places I've worked would not do this. If your place of employment plays games like this, then make sure to reciprocate. Don't give two weeks notice and throw the facts back in their face if HR complains when you give them all of five minutes notice.
The only reason to give two weeks notice to an employer who has a history of abusing that notice, is if you gain some benefit by doing so such as unused vacation time or your new employer requires it. And you must always be ready to dig in your heels in face of stupidity. If they want to let you go immediately, but don't offer to pay you for the next two weeks then refuse to go.
Anyone can be prosecuted for sabotage performed against an employer. This works the same way for computers as it does for construction equipment, factory machines, etc. Most places are afraid of short timers doing them wrong because in the company's mind, you have a reason to be disgruntled. This all goes back to how they treat their employees.
When I was laid off from my last IT job the managers were all walking on eggshells when they talked to me. They were obviously afraid I might go postal. Perhaps my supervisor should have thought of the possible consequences before I was subjected to months of stress and frustration from her insane decisions..."We'll hardcode all the dropdown lists on the forms instead of using data tables to store them in Oracle. That will make maintenance easier!" No wonder the three year project never saw the light of day. Stupid Bitch.
This is process is typical. You resigned, you got two weeks extra vacation. No muss, no fuss.
In soviet russia company resigns you!
Actually there are two lessons here:
The Proper Termination
On company letterhead, briefly explain your intention to leave your position in two weeks time. Submit this to your boss with a hearty handshake and express your gratitude for the opportunity to make a difference doing whatever it was you did. If you're lucky you'll be immediately asked to gather your things and shown the door by two large men wearing blue shirts and baseball caps with matching security patches. Don't worry, they aren't cops. If you're unlucky you'll have to leave without your things and they will be shipped to you in a box a week later. This is currently the proper way people leave their employers. Sad really. It could be worse... they could make you work those last two weeks.
You can find other ways to quit your job at:
http://www.quityourjobday.com/
I manage a group of system administrators for a large bank. I would have done the same thing. Once people give notice, they are shown the door. Of course, they are paid for the two weeks. This is pretty normal in today's world.
Many others have noted that this is a pretty standard policy in many companies, I've certainly encountered it more than once.
One amusing note at my current gig is that there is one guy who has had his account (and email and access etc) cut off four seperate times when other people have left. Security kept shutting off his user id instead of the people who were actually leaving.
this is getting old and so are you
blog
Reverse Firing
In the corporate world you often get reviewed for your performance. The meetings are uncomfortable affairs where your manager goes down a checklist of things that 'could use improvement'. On Quit Your Job Day, you'll be calling a review meeting of your own. Create a list of things the company needs improvement in. Watch your manager squirm as you point out bad health benefits, impenetrable paperwork, inhuman working environments and other OSHA related problems. At the end of your review look your manager straight in the eye and ask 'What would you do if you were me?', pause and then announce 'I'm afraid I'm going to have to let you go.'
More ways to quit at:
http://www.quityourjobday.com/
Another victory for the brainwashing PR departments all over the nation. You have just used the words "Let go" instead of "Fired" in a relaxed, non-formal setting. Depressing.
I honestly feel it depends on the person. Where I work, we've lost people and had them terminated immidiately. Others gave their notice and worked the last two weeks, if you want to call it that.
I was going to take a contractual job, for "a big place", but decided against it. They like me where I am, and pretty much talked me into staying.
When the author said he's compensated in pay for the next two weeks, was it from this employer? If so, what's the problem? You quit, they let you go then and there, were fast and efficient about removing your access, and you got sent home with pay. I found it humorous when the author said "I can't do my job..." well that's because you just quit it!
FLR
I quit Disney years ago and had the opposite thing happen. They were firing a lot of people around the time and everyone that got fired or layed off were escorted to their work area to collect their things then walked out by a guard. I quit for personal reasons. I finished out my last week with no problems, collected my things and left. In my case they apparently felt I wanted to leave so there wouldn't be any reprisals where as the people fired might steal or damage company property to get revenge for the sudden dismissal. Pretty normal for a corporation but it was just interesting that some one that quit was treated so differently. I've had the same experience as the poster with other companies though. Once you've quit most don't want you around and will insist you leave that day.
Seriously, "Lectured local computer user groups about Linux"? Is a LUG session really worth putting on your resume?
What I want to know is, how do you computer and IT professionals out there put in your notice of resignation ... and not get immediately shutdown, and shunned away from the computers?
I think you got off easy, you get a 2 week paid vacation before you start your new job. (you do have the new job already, right?)
I am the only person I saw at most of the places I have worked who stayed for those last 2 weeks. I think I did that by having a personal relationship with my manager and the owners of the company or at least my manager's boss (if he had one that wasn't the owner). I don't mean playing golf on Wednesday mornings, I mean just being civil and not afraid of talking about work or what ever.
Most places I have worked, when IT staff put in their 2 weeks notice (the tradition used to be your notice matched your pay period, I assume it is the same today) most of the time they were nearly immediately escorted to the door. Usually they were smart enough to have collected their personal belongings the night before.
-----
Pretty Bad Privacy (PBP) Public Key
6
For every guy like you who wants to be honorable, give their 2 weeks, and then be allowed to work as a professional (with their respective privileges) during those 2 weeks - there are N other guys who would abuse that position. Young punks who give their notice and then start fscking with things, or setting up timebombs ('at' jobs to delete stuff) etc. The sad part is, your employer has to assume that you are one of the N and not the 1. One person who fscks them costs way more in damages than the trust/feel-good factor buys them that they get from trusting the good guy. i got laid off a couple years ago. the SOP was that your boss laid you off, then you were told to go to a conference room to call the HR person to get the details of your package. while you were in the conf. rm calling, they are disabling access to your local machine in your cube/office. oh well. You live and learn. It'd be nicer if we all lived in a more civilized age ( and carried light sabres).
There is no such thing as 'chocohol' or 'workahol'.
In order to give you an idea of how to resign professionally, here is a resignation letter you probably shouldn't use:
Going to GuatemalaI've always done what you did. I've had employers ask me to stay and help train ;)
a replacement, I've had some politely tell me it was ok to leave immediately,
and some escort me out of the building. I wouldn't take it personally. They
don't have any assurance you won't damage the company so they're being safe.
There are a lot of lawyers out there
-- Programming with boost is like building a house with lego. It's a cool but I wouldn't want to live in it
You did the right thing. Some companies will trust you and some will not. I still have an account at one company I left 2 years ago. It's all above board and no one has a problem with it. Another company I worked for that laid me off let me keep my accounts for a week to finish up business. Some companies will shut you down right away. Those that do are confirming that you did he right thing my leaving. If they don't trust you it probably means they can't be trusted. But I have also never taken chances. I always take home any papers or files that I think are mine before I give notice. I don't take chances with my own stuff. Everyone has personal files even if they don't admit it openly. You don't want to lose them. At the same time I will not take home things that belong to the company. I take seriously my employement contracts.
[Good]-----
You are fed up. You want to resign. You write a resignation letter and give your boss 2 weeks notice.
Next morning, you found out, all of your access to system is provoked. Your security card to the front door doesn't even work anymore. Security guard watches you with the corner of his eyes constantly. You sweat. You walk over to HR and ask. HR honored your 2 weeks notice 2 weeks early. Now you go home and get paid for 2 weeks vacation.
[Worse]-----
You are fed up. You want to resign. You write a resignation letter and give your boss a finger.
Next morning, you find out, all of your access to system is provoked. Your security card signals the alarm. Security Guard draws pepper spray. You panic. You scream and run away like a little girl. You are home and waiting for UI to come.
[Worst]-----
You are fed up. You want to resign. You write a resignation letter and mail it to your boss's house via USPS with 35 cents stamp.
Next morning, nothing is changed. You walk into your boss's office, demand higher salary and a chance to sleep with his wife. Your boss is not happy. Matter of fact, he is fuming. You smile and say;
"You Biatch~! You just been PUNK'D! I QUIT!" You laugh sarcastically and walk away from your (ex)boss.
Now you are home without UI. You submit question on Slashdot.
Grand Stand! The Professional Way!
"Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
I would be willing to bet that smaller "family" type companies, on average, would have a much more relaxed procedure in place for IT workers who resign. Location of the office/company within the country would probably be a factor as well. (i.e.: Companies based in smaller towns, vs. ones based in LA, Las Vegas, Boston, etc.)
... "I heard they found 20GB of porn on their PC!" ...)
One example is the company where I work. Although it is part of a huge corporation, the local offices where I live (which is a smaller town, incidentally) have a smaller, family-type atmosphere. "Corporate" allows the local HR people and department managers to ultimately decide if they should stop someone from doing work immediately after handing in their resignation, or if they can stay on for the remainder.
To my knowledge, they have chosen not to kick anyone out the door on the day that their resignation is received. There's at least two people in the past year, of whom I know, that have handed in their resignations at least one month in advance, and were allowed to stay on for that entire time. It not only helped to facilitate the transition of their responsibilities to those that remained, it also did not contribute to the Rumor Mill like it would have if suddenly the entire office realizes that *poof*, you're gone, when they get an email that says "Joe Blo no longer works at The Company". (Those emails cause nothing but headaches for everyone. People start to spread rumors about what Joe could've possibly done
Maybe it has something to do with the how the letter is written too, or something else like "This is how XYZ Company does it, and they're HUGE! We should do it like that too!" Considering how many stupid resons I've seen that companies have for doing what they do internally, it could be anything I suppose.
I bet you probably should've bought the HR Manager a few drinks at that last office party, or stopped in and chatted with your Boss from time to time. Let them get to know you a little better as a person. It's harder for them to do "bad" things to you, if they think of you as a nice person, instead of just another carbon-copy employee.
They must think you're stupid if you wait until after you announce your resignation to start messing with the system. If the idea is that you're going to do something maliciously, it's already too late.
That said, consider it a good thing: anything that goes wrong now can't possibly be your fault. It's safer for you and them.
Cheers.
It's a lesson learned the hard way. Give four weeks of notice! Geez man, you forfeited two weeks of pay.
~Chris
... would be to destroy all accounts first and then give notice ;-)
;-)
Seriously: Believe that this happens everywhere. The time an employee leaves is the most vulnerable in terms of security. Most data gets stolen then. That said, it is obviously naive to believe that the employee did not have a chance to steal data on the day before he resigned.
So, what do you have to sell?
I'm kinda shocked to see as many "oh my god, how terrible," and "The same thing happened to me, the bastards" as I am.
Here's the deal: the purpose of delivering two week's notice to an employer is to let them know that you intend to leave. It is a courtesy to allow them to prepare for your immanent departure.
If their preparation involves disabling your access and asking you to leave the premises, that's their prerogative. Unless they actively need you there, why would they continue to employ someone who has no intention of being there another two weeks?
I'm not saying that the company is without responsibility where their employees are concerned: if you were being laid off or fired, I would hope you'd get two week's notice (although I know this is often not the case). But under no circumstances should you feel bad about moving to another job before then, if you can find one.
So if this is standard practise, then why not give 4 weeks notice next time and get paid for 4 weeks without working? It seems to me the only reason they paid out 2 weeks was because that was the period of notice that was given. Heck, why not try 6 weeks notice?
My "newly"-pension-free-soon-to-be-sold-company does this all the time. When you put your two weeks in, you get escorted out the door. So if you really wanted your files, you should have backed them up early. It's BAU.
What they did is a kindness. They have given you 2 weeks to find a new job or relax before your new job or whatever.
They did exactl;y as they should it has nothing to do with you and your now free and clear to enjoy your life. Enjoy!
In this case, the professional thing to do is wish them a good day, and then take the money and run.
You met your obligations for professional courtesy by offering two weeks notice. This is not a requirement, you can quit with no notice if you wish. (You shouldn't, but you can.) They've met their obligation by offering to pay you for those two weeks.
Enjoy your vacation, and good luck at the new job.
It's good to use your head, but not as a battering ram.
F'k you... F'k you... F'k you... You're cool... F'k You... I'm out.
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Though i'd agree with pinter's bandwagon comments on the US and Iraq, he's an overly-published, overly-winded, nobel-winning leftist fool. He's like a British Noam Chomsky -- he sounds great to start with, but after a while is like hearing a left wing version of Michael Savage babbling on about all of the right-wing, capitalist conspiracies conspiring to enslave us all and oppress those poor, innocent socialist/communists of the world.
Australia isn't First World? Would that make it 2nd World? Standard of living and complexity of government seems to be on par with most "1st World countries"... There's even a pretty significant cultural impact that Australia has on the World, and Australian products are consumed all over. I wonder what an example of a Second World Country would be. New Zealand, maybe? Argentina? Greece?
Flip it around: why would you want to stay? I've been on both sides of this many times, and the best way to quit is to offer 2 weeks our of professional courtesy, and hope they kick you out right away and pay you. It is *zero* fun hanging around after you've told everybody you're leaving -- it's like putting a "lame duck" sticker on your back.
When I'm hiring I often tell new hires to give their current employers "up to 2 weeks" - which provides the courtesy, but gives the employer a way to make it shorter. I'm happy to have that new employee *now* and the former employer is typically also happy to make a quick transition - that is, after they get over the fact that the decision is final.
If they expect you to remain for those last 2 weeks with no access to the systems, break out a pad and pen and start writing down all of the things you know you have access too, and work with your co-workers to ensure you no longer have access to anything.
On top of that, spend some time to pass along info on those systems you are the only one that knows anything about.
Beyond that it's not bad to sit around and make it known your available to answer questions before your time is up.
Face it, the more professional you are, the better your former employer and co workers will feel about you later. That never hurts when looking for references.
Eschew Obfuscation
Is this the first time you've ever resigned from a job? Of course you take care of all your files and other business before you tender your resignation. It's just common sense. It never ceases to amaze me how techies are bewildered by the most fundamental aspects of adult life. You tell your company you're leaving. They might want you to stick around. They might not. "Two weeks notice" means that they'll give you two weeks pay. It doesn't mean they definitely are going to keep you around for two weeks.
I think the original poster did the right thing by giving notice.
Personally I've never had my system access shut off because I gave notice, but I did have it shut off before I was told I was laid off (many years ago.) However, as I've worked in a number of verticals I know there are a few that disable access to live systems, but let developers keep working during their notice period.
With live/production data, there are often regulations that would prohibit allowing a sysadmin to continue accessing the system after they've given notice. I realize it probably feels insulting to have your access shut off after acting like a professional and giving notice, but I wouldn't take it personally.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
When I resigned from my previous job, my boss called me in and started shouting. Among the kinder things he said were, "I took you in when you were a stray, from the street", "you're not going to last five minutes in your next job" . . . and then he asked where I was going. I didn't tell him.
I had resigned from a computer job at a local ISP before as well. Basically, I sense that my previous boss did not like the fact that I want to move on.
If I were him, I would ask the resigned person to leave documentations for his previous works, as well as find another employee to take on his job immediately while he is still there. Instead of my one more working week offer, he decided to let me go immediately.
Even so, I am still willing to help them out for my previous work (Ironically, I am also offering free support for another company who had layed me off). I just want everyone to be happy.
(Posted as AC since I don't want to disclosure which company it is)
It was completely understandable if he/she was fired, but he left under his own terms. ANYTHING he/she had wanted to do that was malicious would have already been done. ALl they did was create a bad feeling with a former employee.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
The company is being either smart or stupid (you choose).
I totally agree with the poster that said if you were disgruntled you've already done your dirty-work before you provide notice. One of the first things I do at a company is write an email filter so I can run commands via my pager and have the results mailed back to me. It's saved me countless hours when out to supper. For some reason whenever my direct manager hears about this their reaction is a surprised look... (You can do that?!?) and then invariably the statement, "Don't tell anyone else about this, ok?".
On the other hand one of my employees provided us his two weeks notice. Too bad for him one of our managers was friends with the recruiter for the competitor he had just signed an offer letter from. Yes, he was providing two weeks notice to us while legally bound to work for the other guys in two weeks. I don't think he would have done anything in those two weeks (certainly not anything he couldn't have done afterwards as far as trade secrets go) but you really have to wonder about a guy that thinks it's ok to hope to work for two weeks when he's basically already working for the competition.
Don't take it personally. Ask yourself this, "I own a business. One of the folks that could *absolutely* screw me", (I assume this is you. With a bit of work and planning I could poison my companies backups for 6-10 weeks before anyone noticed and then crater all the servers. I'd live in a 5'x8' room for a *long* time after but it could be done.), "... *absolutely* screw me has just given 2 weeks notice. Do I a) trust that he's a good guy, b) cover my ass?" Different folks will answer that different ways.
-CZ
1. Clean up your business before giving notice. Expect never to come back.
2. Give notice.
3. Offer critical information (e.g. passwords)
4. Ask what they would like you to do with your remaining time.
5. Do what they ask (within reason).
6. Stay off of all systems unless specifically asked to do something.
7. After you leave, do not try to access their systems again.
The tricky thing is to limit your own access to the systems as much as possible. If you're allowed continued access, someone could be setting you up for a fall. After you leave, someone may try to use your accounts to access information, or just to sully your name. Make it known to them that you won't be trying to access the systems after you leave, and that any further use of your accounts is unauthorized.
My personal policy and advice is to give the customary two weeks notice: no more, no less.
Why? Because I've seen too many people give longer notice, but then get cut loose right away without pay. I work for money, and sorry, given how some employers treat their people, I'm not willing to risk a couple weeks sans paycheck.
Happily, in some places, if they do cut you loose earlier than advertised and they don't pay you for that time, you can collect unemployment because you've effectively been fired.
From the employer's perspective, yes, I understand them cutting you off. Been there.
Hopefully, you actually found a job and accepted it first before resigning! My HR experiences taught me that they are obstacles for doing your job and view you as someone who makes a LOT more $$$ then they ever will. So, they only feel power at the beginning and end of the job cycle where they have influence over you. It's just human nature. Make the most of it and go ask the cute secretary out on your last day :)
"What is the professional thing to do?" - Posted by Cliff on Wednesday December 07, @09:50PM
Be straight with them as well (the employer you're with currently before you just up & take off on them).
If you're looking, you'll have to go on interviews, right? Shoot straight with them - tell them you are.
(They can either counter-offer & attempt to compensate you with promotion or pay, or just let you go & chase better coins/deadpresidents, period! It's a VERY "black-N-white" situation imo).
I just did the same myself, which is WHY I am posting in reply to this one! It hits home here too...
Ever since one job contract ended well (3-4 month deal over the summer), I was "hot" I guess!
(See, I think of jobs & their opportunities, maybe oddly, like the times when you have women! E.G.-> When you're getting them, there's a big supply & you can DO NO WRONG! When you're not, it's a cold-streak)
Well, right when THAT one ended? I immediately lucked out to 2 of them @ once as possibles. Things seem to be 'picking up' in the IT/IS/MIS field again in my area, finally @ last, as a side-note here!
So, I interviewed @ both places in the downtime from the 1st job I mentioned on contract.
Second one pays nearly 3x as much as the one that offered first...
So, I took the first one offered, why not? Bird in the hand, & all that!
It's for a pretty big/well known software OEM.
The 2nd/other one, it was a FAR more lengthy interview process, 4 in all, but PAYS more...
2 technical interviews, 1 meet with mgt. (CIO, VP, & Business Analysts), & other with Programmer/Analysts, project leads, & network administrators.
The last one was with "HR" for the usual background-check madness etc./et all, & then I got the offer letter via email.
I did the "live/in person" interviews on breaktime from the job I had, & was honest with the folks @ the company I was working then for. I wasn't sure I'd get the job, competition & all that...
BUT, I did.
I worked out my last day there yesterday & am ready to start a FAR better job doing Visual Basic 6.0/.NET work, probably some Delphi (due to string processing superiority possible), & RPC to SUN Unix rigs to older COBOL based apps - now this?
This, to me, is "FUN" stuff! I am psyched for the job... & of course, the compensation is better, & the company is bigger/more powerful than the one I left as well & great people were all I met @ the interviews during that process.
I guess, my bottom-line is, what was successful for me?
Being 110% straight, with BOTH parties concerned (companies involved), & mostly with myself!
Hey, I wanted the job I just got (after the other one I dropped, & actually felt bad about, I was doing well... it was mostly the compensation rate involved, & knew I could get more), the one I truly REALLY wanted, as both presented themselves to me literally, simultaneously, the same day.
I got the 1 I wanted more than the 1 I had & owed myself that - make as much as you are worth & capable of as my thinking here.
After all - we all have things that only money can take care of, & the more of it you can get your hands on?
Well, that's just it - it's a matter of purely business... but, being honest about it with BOTH employers concerned (one you are leaving especially)?
Make it "judicious business" - no one's going to get angry with you for trying to make the most $ you can! Anyone & everyone relates to THAT!
APK
P.S.=> Just be straight, & if you're looking + for instance as I mentioned above, going on interviews during your current job's workday? If anyone asks, say you need extra time during lunch to make it back to your job you have already? Tell them the truth - you need the extra time for an interview for a better job, that's all... apk
Publicly traded companies must comply with Sarbanes/Oxley. Healthcare organizations must comply with HIPAA. Banks must comply with GLBA. All of these laws have vague clauses in them about network security, and how you have to have it, and how auditors are going to come in and tell you that you don't, and then you have to pay big fines and get a bad name and make X-Treme Reparations(tm).
It's altogether possible that the standard operating procedure I've seen so much posted about here is the result of having to make auditors STFU so the company will pass the muster of these badly written laws. Some auditor somewhere said, "Well, what if your IT person gives notice? We feel that the IT staff person continuing to have systems access after giving notice is an unmitigated risk," even though that's a bunch of hooey.
So the company mitigates the pretend risk by cutting off access immediately, and avoids having to go through the hassle of a failed audit.
Have I mentioned that auditors of network security know absolutely nothing about technology?
Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
Its just standard procedure. I'm surprised they gave you a day. Banks walk you out the moment you give them your notice.
So get your papers in order before you resign if you want to be professional about it.
Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes
In a layoff situation, some people may go postal. I was laid off from one company (to cut their burn rate), one person stormed out. I finished checking code in, removed my personal software and packed up some of my office to get the rest the next day.
Where you have given notice, any damage that you may do has been done. Any time-bombs to be installed, would have been installed. Copies of code would have been made. The difference is the person who made the schedule -- the employer or the employee.
I would be insulted, but have to move on anyways and then possibly start the new job early.
Of course I worked with someone who was about to give notice, and they company laid him off with 7 months pay.
Fight Spammers!
well, thats the sad reality! in this mean mean world, everybody is dispensable. There may be 100 idiots in your company itself who can do the same work you are doing and more than a lakh idiots outside waiting to get in to do the same thing you are doing! so big deal! And even letting go the CEO is not that bigga deal. Just find another greedy idiot somewhere. also all the brainwashing on being professional blah blah , it only applies to the convicts, i mean employees, not the system. the bitter feelings that you have are a result of you having false expectations from life. dude, see the matrix. FREE YOUR MIND!! Another reference for you would be The Dilbert Principle by Scott Adams. goodluck!
If companies consider you a liability,then you should consider it a liability to continue working for them. Some people will say that's unprofessional, but they are wrong and dumb, basically. Walk out, send an email notice and that's it. They owe you nothing more and more importantly, you own them nothing either. You have better things to do than train someone to do your old job. The company should have thought of that before giving you plenty of reasons to quit. Remember, just walking out on your part is nothing personal either, it's just business. What's unprofessional about you treating a business the same way they would treat you? You need to toughen up.
I just resigned at my job. I had been there 4 years and had a pretty good relationship with my peers. I decided to start my own consulting business and gave my employer 30 days notice. He said great, I hope it works out for you, can you help me find a replacement. In the meantime, im working from hope setting up my new business! I have the same access as ever and will write up a document on all the procedures to lock me out of the system after I leave! I think any employer that has any common sense realizes that if someone was going to damange thier system, they could do it at any time any second before they resign. Any skilled sysadmin could also open backdoors or holes into the system after they resigned if they wanted to. I would be weary of working for a company that treats thier users as felons.
And what's important is not to take it personally. It's just business -- and this particular company has decided that their security policy is to accept the resignation directly, and pay the two weeks salary.
The 2-week notice is a courtesy you render your employer. Severance in lieu of these two last weeks of work are a courtesy that your employer is rendering to you.
Basically you came out pretty good, you resigned by the book, and your employer bought you out of your last two weeks. Just make sure to not claim victory until you get paid for your excess vacation balance, if you do qualify for it.
Pedro
----
The Insomniac Coder
I ain't workin' here no more
My woman done left and took all the reasons
I was workin' for
You better not to try to stand in my way
As I walk out the door
Just take this job and shove it
"Cause I ain't workin' here no more.
Well this obligatory quote'll either be modded redundant or troll. And all I can say for that it is:
Stick it where the sun don't shine!
Didn't you get the memo?
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
I gave notice 6 months ahead in a conversation with my boss. I have not handed in a letter of resignation yet as i am miles away from the date of leaving but told him i probably wont be here unless something bizarre happens.....by not giving him the letter nor doing anything in email to let him know he cannot action anything until I resign or he fires me....i can still go to unfair dismissal if i want because i havent informed him in any "Legal" way but i did give him a heads up that it will be on the cards. If he wishes to replace me (i offered a compromise as im not going to another employer but a different career) then he can but he can't sack me safely.
If i give a letter of resignation i specify 4 weeks notice so that he is required to give me that much pay + my holidays based on the time ive been employed and also to show that im happy to stay to run a new person into the mix.
currently it would appear they are nto replacing me and im going to get my deal my way which is great. having said that i may be out on my arse with 4 weeks pay and holidays and just get to start 4 weeks earlier than planned....As the only real highend IT person in the company it hurts them more than me.....
If you hand in your notice and dont have to come back its because they dont want the possibilities of anything happening...it normally has nothing to do with the relationship with the person just the way the buisness is run.....if you were a bean counter you probably get the same treatment.....either way they are an IT person down and you have been asked to leave early...if you get asked back to fix something bill them at a higher rate and let them know its just the way your company works back to them...
Obviously, you should have planned your sabotage prior to resigning.
The Admin and the Engineer
...exactly what you did.
You walked in and gave your two weeks. And the result was you got an impromptu unpaid vacation.
Some organisations will view you as a security risk - don't take it personally.
Did mention you should enjoy the paid vacation?
At one job I was the system admin at I revoked my own account the day I gave notice. I told them I would stay on two weeks to help the other guys but I wouldn't touch a keyboard just sit over there shoulder and answer questions.
The timing of this move is awkward. As you know, our bonuses will be distributed on February 28. Coincidentally, I must leave $city$ at the end of February. I have been advised by some that it would be prudent to keep my plans to myself until I had my bonus "in hand." Were I to do this, however, it would put me in the position of potentially quitting with no notice. My sense of honor requires that I give you adequate notice. In the same spirit, I would hope that $large compnay$ will allow me to remain an employee through the end of February, and hopefully beyond.
The bonuses mentioned were a dilbert-esq company wide 10-15% of your annual salary, whether you deserved it or not, type of thing, so nothing to sneeze at. I sent this letter a month ahead of time, not just 2 weeks. As it turns out, I collected my bonus check on Feb 28, cordually said my good-byes and left the building by 9:30AM for a cross-country drive. I actually picked up 6 months more of part-time telecomuting work. In general burning bridges is not a good thing.
I dunno, is it always company policy or are personalities involved too?
In my case, I figured I'd either do the right thing and everything would work out, or I'd get a bone-fide right to bitch about being wronged.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Hi, I'm sure I'm echoing what many people are saying here, and I'll say that you did nothing wrong. You did the professional thing, which is to notify them that they need to find a replacement for you within 2 weeks, and for those 2 weeks you are still available to wrap things up, train your replacement, etc. Just like how they will deactive your cards/email/account/etc. to "inform" you that you are being laid off, getting your pay in lieu and shown the door seems to be pretty common.
However, in MY experience I have never had that happen to me. Each of the companies I have left, I gave my notice, and I kept working for the two weeks before moving on to the next company. Perhaps it was the nature of the company (very small, so everyone from the CEO down knew me) or my line of work (Software Developer rather than SysAdmin), or maybe (probably) there was TooMuchStuffToDo(tm) and they really could use the extra hand. (One time I was even kept on for a while as a contractor part time...)
So, I guess it depends. But don't take it personally. It's JustBusiness(tm). And, hell, 2 weeks pay for not doing work isn't something I'd complain about. You can sit at home, surf the web, post on Fark or something, then go onto your new job. Not too shabby.
-Moof
Yeah, and why can't they call him the night before and tell him "don't bother coming in tommorrow?"
Marge: The plant called and said if you don't come in on Friday, don't bother coming in on Monday.
Homer: WooHoo! Four day weekend!
D6 63 0D 70 89 81 BB 8E 7B 7C 5F 5D 54 EA AB 73
I don't see what more you could have done. It's their decision.
You were dignified, and they were justified.
Good luck, and be sure to brush up on the new company's policy when you start your new job. You never know what the situation could be like next go-round.
VOTE!
I usually just crash a truck into the lobby, unload about 3 tons of high grade manure, shout incoherently in Farsi and give the receptionist an indian burn.
about 2 years ago i resigned from my full-time job w/ 2-weeks notice. i thought 2 weeks was sufficient since i wasn't in the middle of a 6-month project or anything. i telecommuted, and had daily tasks to handle, so my access was not 'cut off' until after i left (i assume - i never tried to ssh back in after i was gone). their attitude was not very cordial, as no one spoke to or emailed me during the last 2 weeks and no exit interview was given.
now, if i had given 2 weeks in the middle of a 6-month project.......well, that seems like it would've been unprofessional.
of course, since i knew 2 months prior the exact date i was turning in my resignation, i had plenty of time to get what i needed - like the email where my project manager explained why i was an employee and not an independent contractor - which came in handy when they told the irs they didn't withhold my taxes because i was an independent contractor.
come to think of it, telling me 'c-ya' and giving 2 weeks pay would've been nice, since the last 2 weeks of working in isolation was kinda weird.
When you recognize love in another and realize how precious it is, everything else seems so insignificant.
When I quit my last job, they had two weeks to do their best to milk me for domain knowledge I had about the systems I had been administering. I had to train my replacement best I could. Otherwise, there would have been a break in continuity of administration. If they shut you out immediately and told you to take a two week vacation, they don't get the benefit of your experience or domain knowledge about the systems you worked on. If you're that expendable, fine. Get over it, and enjoy your vacation. If you're not, smile an evil grin about them being fux0red in your absence. -jag
When all you have is a hammer, everybody looks like a Messiah.
Prepare for and assume you will be escorted from your manager's office the minute you resign.
Days before take home your personal belongings, and anything whose ownership might be joint or questionable.
Back up anything you need off company systems to removeable media, and remove it.
If you have a company notebook, format the drive, and / or leave it at home that day.
It may be the only leverage you have in getting help w/ benefits, cobra, severance, etc.
In most cases I have also locked myself out of the systems before walking in w/ the resignation letter.
This way there will be sys logs that show yo cuoldn't have done whatever stupid thing happens
that they will blame you for.
Forget about friendships or professioal respect. The day you quit you are a liability and a PITA. You
are no longer on the team, and they have no reason to offer you any courtesy.
The company's only obligation is to protect itself, and obey labor laws - anything else is gravy.
Make sure to be professional and polite, don't spout off at the exit interview and don't put ANYTHING
negative in writing. Burning bridges in the tech sector is a BAD idea.
"You're either outstanding, or outprocessing"
You know what? In both situations my managers chose to sit on their hands and then gave me someone who was technically incompetent with only three days to go. The first time I had to give four years of knowledge to a new college hire who had only about three months of experience. The second time the boss chose to find a "warm body" to whom I could give the information. The "warm body" part was fulfilled, but he was utterly useless aside from that and was asked to leave. I could not figure out why they would wait so long, except that it just accelerates the Chain of Falling.
(The Chain of Falling is the trend that happens when one member of a team leaves and the work gets distributed. Imagine that there is a team of 10 people. One person gets a new job, realizing more money or power is a possibility. The remaining work gets distributed amongst the remaining 9. Then a new person comes onto the team. So, not only has work been increased for everyone, but they also have to train the new guy. The ninth person follows suit, and the pattern continues. Eventually the team is winnowed down to 2 or 3 people who know what they are doing, the remaining 7 have compartmentalized knowledge, and everyone feels stressed and unhappy.)
A tirade, I know, but I just don't get it.
--Chag
What the hell world do you live in? I'd like to emigrate.
If you don't want to work there, who cares about that? Just get your computer stuff in order before you resign - assume they'll cut you off. If your job was anything like mine was, the silence is a comfort.
Take it as a complement. Whether they think you're disgruntled or not - they certainly think you're capable. Just go home (you should be able to), and watch some shitty daytime TV.
First computer job I quit, my boss got so mad he fired me before I could leave his office, then chased me out of the building screaming at me at the top of his lungs, screeching about me being a traitor. He was kind of an excitable guy....
There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
I have heard about people giving notice and then being walked out. When I quit I was determined to not have this happen to me.
1. Walk away one day and never come back.
2. Go on a one week bender and trash your apartment.
3. Move out.
4. If they tell you you are making a mistake, send an email calling the bastards incompetent.
5. Tell them you wouldn't ever want a reference because they are so incompetentit is embarrasing.
Some people say don't burn bridges. I say burn the motherfucker down so they know what they did!
However, the attitude that people have zero value to the organization as soon as they give notice is a bit short-sighted. Too many times have I seen heavy-handed tactics work to cause more damage then they prevent. I have never worked in an IT dept that wasn't understaffed and that means that every one is _the_ expert at something. & when was the last time documentation was up to date? You want to get as much of that knowledge transplanted to the home team as possible. By treating soon-to-be-former-employees like criminals you've poisoned the relationship making it nearly impossible to get anything useful out of them.
Yes, things have changed and you must protect your systems and data. Explain to them you're going to have to restrict their accounts bla-dee-blah-blah. Keep it low key & offer an easy carrot or two like references or some such. But keep them talking on topic & to the right people. It's not all hugs & kisses but enuf knowledge usually gets over so that the switch in responsibilities is smooth(er).
It's usually easier to deal with one person leaving than 3 or 4 trying to figure it all out... all over again.
Now excuse me I have an arrow I need to deliver
When I left my last tech job, I let them know months in advance that I was planning on going to law school. I worked up until the day I left, with all my access and passwords intact.
I think the rapport you have with your supervisors will have as much of an impact as anything else. I see no problem with the policy that the OP's company had and followed wrt his departure. I worked for a very paranoid company and was paid to act that way, however, my leaving did not trigger that kind of paranoia, even though we might have acted differently towards another employee that had come in from an acquired company or one that had not been there as long.
The situation depends just as much as the policy, imho.
In Vino Veritas
I was at my last place of employment for 4 years. When I handed in my 2 week notice, I was in front of the CIO the next morning with the offer of a raise and a promotion to Chief Security Officer. Yes the money would have been nice, but money was not the reason for giving notice. The raise and newly appointed position would not change the way things were done around there. With in 6 months, I'd be out there looking again. As it turns out, the company took out a 10k contract for my services till a suitable replacement was found. So I ended up with a new fulltime job and a part time contract job. Only after a little over 1 year at my new position, I am making more now than if I would have accepted the offer to stay.
***Move on, don't look back and have no regrets***
Best of luck
Don
As it has been said before, it sounds like the OP did the ethical and professional thing in his resignation, and the company opted for the (now fairly standard) rude and unprofessional immediate termination. That said, everyone should know what your state's employment laws are. They vary widely, and give the employee a variety of options and rights, and also can help you set expectations.
I'm going to speak about California, since that's where I work now. IANAL, but I've talked to one about this, and you should too. It's cheap ($100 or so for 30 minutes or so), and will give you information that is very much worthwhile, both at the start phase (negotiating your employment) and exit phase (termination/resignation) of your job.
CA is an "at will" state. For those employees (not contractors) not covered by a union contract, there are really three different ways to end employment:
Now, what happens often these days is that the company notifies you that you are terminated, and then tells you (e.g. locks you out, etc) that you are not to come to work for the next 2 weeks. The same applies to people resigning when they give notice (as the OP found out). HOWEVER, you are STILL CONSIDERED EMPLOYED by the company until the 2 week period is up. This is often important for Stock vesting, etc. And don't let them fool you that the "2 weeks pay" thing is a "severance package". It isn't. They are REQUIRED to pay you as long as you are an employee.
Don't Ever Sign Any End-Of-Employment Contract To Get a 2-Week Severance. You're an idiot if you do - they owe you the money in any case. The only time you should sign one of the agreements is to get money beyond what would be coming to you AFTER YOUR RESIGNATION/TERMINATION DATE (not the date you gave/received notice).
As a side note, this idiotic "walk-them-out-when-they-resign" policy seems to have originated in Silicon Valley in the 90s, as a consequence of the Dot-Com boom. Too many companies with no proper HR department not having any sort of a clue as to how to professionally hire/fire people. Unfortunately, it seems to have become a trend (it's the norm here in Silicon Valley for everyone, including the huge companies), which is telling as to the lowered quality of management (and HR) of companies these days.
-Erik
There are always four sides to every story: your side, their side, the truth, and what really happened.
Giving you 2 weeks pay (IF you gave 2 weeks notice) and telling you to not come back is akin to spitting in your face.
It's a matter of perspective.
The employer is doing themselves, but more importantly YOU a favor with this behaviour.
Why? Well besides the nice paid two weeks off, you are now officially not responsible.
If they didn't do this you are vulnerable to accusations at a later date if something goes wrong with a server that is traced to a point in time you were on your two weeks to bail.
Yes it's possible you could have sabotaged something before giving notice, and tough luck if they catch you at it. However you can't be held responsible for anything from the point of resignation onwards if removed as he described.
--- I've completed diagnosis of your problem and can classify it as a YOYO...You're On Your Own
My wife gave a month notice and was told she could go the next day. In Washington state, at least, she filed for unemployment and got it. Not the same thing, true, but since she was terminated before her resignation, she filed for UI and got it. It cost the company more, and helped us find a new job (this time me; I was an at home dad at the time) with a little more cushion if less luxury.
ralphhogaboom
Printed on a pink page of paper;
To: $yourEmployersName
I regret to inform you that as of $date your services as an employer are no longer required.
Regards,
$yourName
Ian Ameline
Unless they had some reason to think you were going to cause havoc, they were the ones acting unprofessional.
Why does the technique of instant-shut-out-upon-resignation work, when you could have just copied everything in advance? Because people like you don't know it's standard operating procedure at most large firms. Because not everyone recognizes up front that they'll be starting over from scratch in creating artifacts at the new company (and that stealing back your documents from the old company would give you a seeming, but illegal, advantage). Because competing companies fishing for trade secrets don't usually start fishing until after you confirm you're going to accept the position, which is usually about the same time that you submit your resignation.
I first of all, backup all my personal data off my work machines, not use work machines for personal data at all! I then backup all my work data for my employer, nuke my machine, reinstall everything perfect and have a dev machine all ready for the next guy. (This effectively wipes all trace of my from the machine, yet leaves my employeer with a "dialed in" machine so everyone is happy :) I then give one month notice since my jobs are usually tangled webs, and work HARD ASSED the next 2 weeks and ask to be let go of early if I catch up on all my work. I continue to try to nail relationships or helper code to old employeers, and keep good relations with em all. It's a small work in the tech community, it's good to treat all companies like family (which means forgiving the times when everyone acts like a$holes) :)
Horns are really just a broken halo.
I had the exact opposite experience earlier this year. I quit a Fortune 1000 company with an IT department that was so disorganized and clogged with red tape that I was still able to access the company e-mail through their Web interface for two months after I left. (Trust me; I was never interesting in reading it ... just seeing if I could access it.) This was normal, since people who quit usually didn't even have their AD accounts terminated until a month or after their employment ended.
Were you around when anybody else resigned at your previous company? Were they escorted out immediately, or did they continue working for two weeks (or however long their notice was)?
I've never worked for a company that had an actual documented procedure requiring managers to immediately release every employee who submits their two week notice. That decision is always based on the individual; in fact, it comes down to a very simple question, "all things considered, will the company be better off keeping this person around for $whatever number of weeks, or would it be best to cut ties immediately?"
No offense, but I've never seen a quality employee let go immediately. So, unless your employer had a written policy governing the decision, they simply decided it was in best interest of the company to let you go immediately. You may want to give some thought as to why..
I've always given notice (rarely more than two weeks - they can fire you in a day, and you can leave in a day - don't forget that it's all "business"), and typically am given only part of the two weeks "off", but I'm ready for anything.
In the lead-up to my resigning, I always go through any computers I use for personal files, and remove anything that doesn't really have anything to do with the company - make sure you've removed all browser cookies, clear the history, remove bookmarks. Personally, I'll go so far as to indiscriminantly uninstall software and then manually go through the files to remove any traces, and then scrub the free space of the computer.
Removing too many obvious personal effects may tip off co-workers, so I'll leave stuff like mugs or pictures, lava lamps - things that are clearly mine.
By the time I actually present my resignation, I've covered the various eventualities - the computer's totally clean, so if they "walk me out" then all I have to do is get the last few things off my desk. Of course, if they don't walk you out, you may be bored on that sterile computer for a couple of weeks.
You're lucky you got paid.
I've learned to walk off of job sites quietly the day after checks are cut. Otherwise these parasites will suck you out of every dime they can.
All's true that is mistrusted
Things were done the way they should have been done.
The point of 2 week notice is to let the employer have some time to find an alternative for that job. So a store clerk finds out their only help just quit, leaving them to loose money until they find a replacement.
If the company doesn't need the person, the company has no purpose for keeping them on the clock. Once they intend to quit, there is a level of trust (appropriately gone).
The company acted 100% correct by terminating employee's permissions.
The company acted 100% correct by still paying for the period (and presumably keeping all benefits and such going as if the employee worked through their 2 weeks).
The employee was 100% correct in how the notice was delivered.
Everyone did things correct.
Leaving is always bittersweet I guess.
When ever someone quits, you must look at them as an outsider at that point. That's just good business security. I'd expect the same for any job (accounts payable, lawyers, HR especially).
The employee was 100% correct in how they did things (assuming the letter was written correctly).
But they're just performing SOP (Standard Operating Proceedure) and CTA (Covering Their Ass)
Create a bunch of extra accounts before tendering your resignation. When they disable the ones they know about, us the others to continue carrying out your job as if nothing had happened.
If you did anything wrong, it was to not get your personal data off the systems before you handed in your notice.
Note, I am not advocating ripping off your former employer's source code, but if you know you are leaving you have to assume that you will be shut out of all the systems you had access to pretty much immediately. Make sure that you have copied personal data you want to keep _before_ you hand over the letter. That, fundamentally, is what GMail is for.
Dunx
Converting caffeine into code since 1982
I have seen those 2 weeks you longed for turn into a living hell. You are a lame duck in those 2 weeks. No wants to speak to you, except to talk about the weather, or how some dimwit in purchasing just ordered a ton of toilet paper. No one gives you any constructive work to do, just 'write down everything you know about anything this company does, and that you had a hand in programming, over say, the last 99 years...' You were saved from someones timetabled exit startegy that would have had you doing 35 debriefings, none of which would have been attended, and seven planning for the future meetings, none of which you could care a hoot about.
That 2 week notice, and its subsequent conversion into personal TV time, saved you from a whole lot of really boring nothing. Now, go home, get in the car, switch off the GPS and head in which ever direction you see a hawk flying, and don't stop for anything other than gas for 500 miles.
Live a little; the new job is just as likely to suck the life out of you as the old one did.
Resignation letters should never be more than:
No more need be stated. As a new person was starting the following Monday, it would have been smarter for me to stay those 2 weeks training the new guy. As it was, they get to do it themselves.It is almost impossible to actually explain fully and honestly why you're leaving without sounding bitter or nasty. Gee, Mr BossMan, I'm getting a 50% pay raise, 75% shorter commute, working with new technology, doing interesting (very not-boring) stuff, and the new place uses source code control too!
At least most places are not as bad as banks: if they overhear you talking about leaving, that will be your last day at work.
I've given two weeks notice three times, and every time it's gone all the way to two weeks with all the authority that I've normally had. My last, job I had sysadmin authority at a fortune 500 company on the mainframe and the lan. I keep hearing about people who get walked out immediately, and keep hoping I'll get a paid two week vacation. =[
Left a job six months ago, and my access still hasn't been cut off. (I know this because my eMail client on my home machine still checks that account, because I'm too lazy to turn it off, and the connection still goes through every time. I've even gotten a few send-to-everyone memos from the place.)
It was an amicable split on both sides, and I still have friends there. My position wasn't exactly security-sensitive. I'm not exactly sure what damage I could possibly do, if I were so inclined. Probably nothing more than deleting files I'd worked on, most of which could probably be restored from backup if anyone cared.
I guess my point is, YMMV.
The US free market: two halves of a government-granted duopoly are free to set the market price.
Do all this stuff BEFORE putting in your notice. Or just enjoy your extra 2 weeks paid vacation.
Because of the long-term nature of the projects I've worked on over the last 30 years, I've given 90 days notice each time I've changed jobs. Not that it's done any good; managers rarely think that far in advance, and they typically only provide "a body" for transitioning responsibilities the last few days. However, that always makes me look like the good guy - after all, they had fair warning three months earlier.
I've never been locked out or escorted from a job after providing notice. Companies that do things like that are smarmy; remember to scrape their slime off your shoes on the way out.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
This is very typical behavior, and is the result of too many companies having experienced problems when someone resigned.
A few bad eggs, either stealing from the company on the way out, or sabotaging the network, or creating a hidden account to gain access after they're gone. These things have really happened, and companies are now paranoid, expecting that everyone is a criminal and will do something like this on their way out if they retain their access until the last day.
It is very unprofessional on the company's part, to assume you're a criminal only when you've resigned, but it's the way of business, they are concerned about their company and not about you once you've given in your resignation.
Accept the money they give you and leave early, take it easy, use the time as a paid vacation if you wish, then when it's time to start that new job, you're well rested and ready to go.
everyone will appreciate that
I mod down pyramid schemes in sigs.
I informed my boss that I would be quitting as soon as we completed our current project, and that I would not leave any time earlier than that, as I would never leave my team stranded halfway a project. I also asked him not to tell my team so as not to demoralize them. In the end this was in the order of six weeks notice which was sufficient for him to plan a replacement strategy.
Once we had finished everything to satisfaction, I told my boss that I would be gone at the end of the week. He gave me two extra weeks of salary and told me that I would retain priviliged access to all accounts for another two months, in case my help was needed. He's a class guy and not long after that he was promoted.
Chalk one down for the good guys for once.
HR types think the worst case just like security types, they expect everyone to be as crooked as most corporate leadership seems to be, "he's going to screw us or he wouldn't be leaving". Add in the paper shufflers mindset: "never let common sense interfere with proceedure" and this becomes the normal way of doing things. Enjoy the vacation and go to your new job rested and relaxed.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
That's why you should leave well hidden backdoors behind. So that you have something to do in the remaining couple of weeks.
Just kidding.
for 2wks to stay at home
and ur complaining?
It is not you, but the CIO who is behaving un-professionally.
I agree that next time if you work for him again, give him a 6 month resign notice and let him lock you out from the system.
This way you'll get paid without doing nothing, and they cannot fire you, in 6 months.
My supervisor recently fork-bombed my home PC to "get my attention" after not being able to get ahold of me for a few hours on a Sunday evening. I hope he reads this and freaks out and does it again :)
When I was working for a Big 5 firm, we were going under a fairly intense restructing due to people leaving. So many people were leaving, that guarenteed every Friday we'd have a farewell party.
It got so bad that the Partners tried to curb the "celebrations" - hilarous.
A resignation letter had been circulating around the office, so it was basically a cut-paste jobbie for most people resigning. I can only imagine the HR department having a laugh.
I still felt I left on fairly good terms, even offered them to walk me out the building but unfortunately they didn't. I had my bags packed and everything! So if you got paid out, be happy. Don't be offended - its just business.
Needless to say I walked into the next job, paying double the salary.
Good times.
...that was used by a former Apple employee
I told them that I was walking off of the job, RIGHT NOW, and that was all there was to it.
One of the bosses got upset with me and said that it was discourteous to do something like that. You should give two weeks notice that it would get back to you later and you might not be able to get a job for a stunt like that.
I then told them that my employment was a contract where you paid me for services, and if you fired me, you would walk me out of the building immediately.
"So, I'm firing you. You're all incompetent, and the system is failing due to that. Consider my vacant position as a sign of things to come."
When I walked it stirred people. That next week they lost three. Two more quit the next week. I was an underground leader of the staff, and when I went, the whole place saw my lead and thought it wasn't worth it.
All in all, it was the most worthy thing I've done in years.
Also, if the place sucks to work for, the employer might be rightfully afraid that other emoyees might talk to you about going with you. This isn't to say that you would be unprofessional and poach, but something was wrong enough for you to leave. And before you say, "They could just get your home number," consider how many past employees you are currently in touch with. I tried to get people to leave for much better digs. Walked up with offer in hand. No luck. Inertia is an impressive thing.
I once worked for a company that was, IMHO, the worst place in the world. After putting up with it for as long as I could, I resigned, giving a full 4 weeks notice per the handbook. As with you, I was instructed to immediatly clear my desk and leave the premesis.
Well, I went to the unemployment office to file for unemployment. I anticipated having to build a case for a hostile work environment and go through a hearing process. Not so. It seems that, since they asked me to leave the premesis before the date I offered as my last, they were, as far as the state was concerned, firing me. The guy said "you might not think of it like that, and I might not, but the state does." I got full unemployment benefits starting immediatly.
Worth looking into if you don't have something else lined up already.
When I gave notice at my last job, I PRAYED they'd just let me leave, but instead they kept me on and hired a contractor and had me try and teach him everything I'd learned there in 2 days. It was a miserable place to work, so bad that I don't even list it on my resume. I would have relished a 2-week vacation before starting up my next job. The lame-duck period is sort of awkward too, they had me sitting in on planning meetings and everything as if I was going to be able to do 3-month projects in my remaining 2 weeks.
rooooar
Just remember that you have no control over how other people react to your decisions.
When I left my last job, I gave my notice and then talked to the director of data security and asked him how he wanted to handle transitioning my authority around. I told him straight up that my reputation is too important to me to leave privileged accounts behind, and that I would appreciate having the opportunity to disable my own access so I would be sure it was done properly. I didn't want something to happen and then for the company to think it was me because I'd recently left and had all sorts of authority on the systems.
My boss had already known of my feelings about that sort of thing, because we had talked about it in the past when others had left. He was fully aware of the conversation I had with the director of data security, and he was cool with it. He knew me well enough to know that I took my responsibilities seriously and wasn't going to do something that would bite me in the ass down the road.
I've seen that sort of thing happen; when I was in college, we had a guy who said he wanted to learn, so we gave him administrative access on the systems. He never showed up, and as inexperienced as we were, we didn't revoke his access. He went in and changed all of the passwords and locked out all of the administrative accounts after deleting his own account. He left a trail so blindingly clear that when the US Air Force called to do a security background check on him, they were informed about it (though not by me - but I was in the room when the call came in). The last I heard (and this was many years ago, so his circumstances may have changed), he was finishing up a 6 year ROTC tour of duty but unable to get a security clearance. Do you know how many jobs there are in the US Air Force involving computer science degrees that don't require a security clearance? Not many....
My boss understood that having seen someone screw their career over (former boss was ex-Navy, and had a top secret clearance) because they decided to act stupid with their authority meant that I wasn't about to do the same. I've always assumed that when it comes to IT systems, someone's watching me and I may not know how they're watching me, so I just don't screw around with the authority.
Being a systems administrator means that you have to be trustworthy - and trusted by your management. I've always said that if management doesn't trust a systems administrator (and if they don't for a good reason), then the systems administrator shouldn't be administering their systems. The fact that there is a lot of very sensitive corporate data accessible to someone with those types of rights means that you have to trust that they're not going to abuse their authority. That doesn't mean that you don't put auditing systems in place to audit access to sensitive data, but in most companies, the ones putting those systems in place are the system administrators, so they know the ins and outs of those systems - including how and where to disable them.
Insanity is a gradual process; don't rush it.
You just got two weeks of pay for zero weeks of work. Where's the downside?
Are you sure? Can you back that up with a stat?
An IT/programming job in about a 1000 person company did the same thing to me also. Was kind of strange really at the time. Then again, my boss was a bit paranoid too. I didn't realise until it was too late that he had no sense of humour. I suppose joking that a good way to force the company to upgrade the servers was to set fire to them wasn't exactly a brilliant move on my part :) Oh well.
Australia isn't First World? Would that make it 2nd World? Standard of living and complexity of government seems to be on par with most "1st World countries"... There's even a pretty significant cultural impact that Australia has on the World, and Australian products are consumed all over. I wonder what an example of a Second World Country would be. New Zealand, maybe? Argentina? Greece?
More like "Old World" (Britain/Europe), "New World" (Australia/the Americas) and "Third World" (more recently (ie since the Second World War)"developed" nations), according to memories of (anglocentric) history lessons.
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
How do does your employer not know you won't do harm to them? Put yourself in their shoes, or more accurately your own shoes if it was someone else resigning. Don't you think you would be a little paranoid? I would argue you have a duty to protect your systems. Don't take it personally. Enjoy your 2 week paid vacation.
It protects them as well as you, if funny things happen during your 2 weeks, then you can say "what, i was locked out right away" Pretty standard :)
My last job (before my current one) was at a bank.
I was honest, in that I was looking to do the best I could by my family in taking a position that paid better, and that the work schedule was flexible enough that I could also pursue academic pursuits.
When I gave my notice, my access to the network was struck within 30 seconds, and that is no exaggeration. In fact, my boss read the letter, turned to the guy I worked with, and said, "That's it... Lock him out." It wasn't done out of malice at all-- banks have auditors crawling all over their files, and it would have looked awful suspicious for a guy that was "short" to be having access to the computers.
Companies in different fields of expertise have different reasons for acting the way they do. Some can (and will) let an employee that is leaving work until the last day, and others can't or won't. It all depends on the company policies, which is influenced by whomever the company answers to, such as stockholders or auditors.
If you are polite and honest in the phrasing of your resignation, then I doubt anything "bad" can come of it.
When politicians are involved, everyone loses.
That a lot of places have really sleazy ways of dealing with people. Fred Meyers in Alaska (they are retards that voted not to unionize, I worked there for a summer to earn some cash) has a contract that you sign that says if you don't show up to work, you have quit. That way you can't collect unemployment. Just to screw you over...Wow... lol...
When I quit from there, I gave them my 2 weeks notice, they said I could leave at the end of the week however, and I did. I came back there to go shopping (no hard feelings, I was going back to college) and my superviser (not my manager/boss) was pissed at me for not showing up to work. The idiot manager hadn't even told the guy!!! LoL.. anyway just wanted to tell my funny story.
On the other hand, last summer I worked at an alaska native health clinic. The work was really, really boring. But I was treated VERY well. I got more work done in a couple days than the person that was in my previous position got done in weeks. We were both sad when I went off to school. I am basically gauranteed a great chance of getting hired to work there again if I am back in town looking for a job. A real employer doesn't care about the little things, as long as you get your ****ing work done fast and efficiently and don't bitch. The way it should be!
replacing it with NEW Folger's Crystals! (lets see if they notice the difference)
Here in Washington State nearly all of the tech jobs are 'at will' employment, meaning the employment contract can be terminated at any time for nearly any reason. Giving two weeks notice is considered a courtesy, and should reflect well on you professionally regardless of how they treated you. While it is disturbing to see you have been 'shut out,' I wouldn't go so far as to take it personally unless you have actually talked with your boss and HR and they have not provided a satisfactory business explanation. Keep in mind, these days it's not terribly uncommon for personnel managers to go a bit overboard when they think there might be a possible security breach with an employee. The fact that you gave notice should have helped mitigate such irrational behavior, but I guess not in your case. You did the right thing, and you should feel good about that. They did what they had every right to do as an employer, and you shouldn't feel bad about that. Remember, if you were in their position and felt you had a reason to get rid of a guy who was quitting anyway, would you want people coming and complaining to you about something you know it is your right to do? Unless you are a hypocrite, probably not. Besides, when you apply for your next job, if they bother to investigate the nature of your leaving at least there is a chance someone will say that you gave two weeks notice, as opposed to simply not showing up one day (which, at least here, would also be your legal right.)
It's possible they also have a requirement to cut off his access to the company data. If he's switches to a rival company, they wouldn't want him brining more inside knowledge than he already has.
I recently took another job and was concerned that I'd lose my Thanksgiving holiday and day-after-Thanksgiving holiday if, because of perceived competitive conflicts, my boss might say I had to leave on the day before Thanksgiving rather than a week later, as I had planned. So I took the new job one Friday and told my boss the following week -- too late, my wife thought, for my employer to demand that I leave before Thanksgiving. I still gave my employer two weeks' notice, but I gave myself an extra week to wrap up work I wanted to finish and to avoid the possibility of losing the holidays.
I got feed up with my first job of over 25 years. Bad management, New foreign owners, draining of R&D to overseas, etc.
So when the "other half" of the company - spin off due to FTC monopoly concerns after the merger - was hiring, I interviewed. They had me sign papers on a Monday.
I packed up all of my belongings at the old place on Monday Evening, including a complete Dilber doll collection, as I was afraid of the escort service, that they had used in the layoff rounds (over 14 round in 25 years)!
I told my supervisor on Tuesday, then went to HR and applied for the layoff package. I also went around and told everyone goodbye as a precaution. On Wednesday, HR said no, I would have to be replaced (which I never was). So I said fine, my last day is Friday as I had already arranged with my boss. I then said, (a little ticked at HR - again). Employment at will is a two edge sword!
My boss had me backup all of my files and I gave him and my co-worker the CD's. Thursday afternoon, my boss came in and said that he had arrange with HR to go ahead and check out now. So I had a day extra vaction before I started my new job. Since all the people at the new company were part of the same company two years ago. I knew everyone and they knew me. Easy transition.
Funny thing was that after I reported to work at the new spot, HR told me they delayed hiring me because a corporate wide hiring freeze had gone in to effect after my new boss told me he was going to recommend me for hiring. After they told corporate this, HR said they MUST hire me. I have been there 5 years now.
With a town of 36,000. Many people know each other and are friends for life, even after the change. We have long conversations in Wal-Mart!
Never trust a man wearing a coat and tie!
Why did you write your letter to HR and not to your manager? Do you not have a manager? If you don't, who is the next most-senior person in the company, the person you answer to in meetings about budget or whatever? I think you should have written them a letter and let them sort it out with HR. If you send a letter to HR there's no guarantee that HR will pass on the letter verbatim to those that can revoke your priveleges; they might have just said "Joe is quitting, take whatever measures you deem necessary." instead of "Joe has given two weeks' notice, prepare for him to leave on the Nth of the month." Or something more diplomatic like that.
What was in your letter? Did you tell them why you were leaving? Did you say you were going to steal corporate secrets, that you were moving, that you needed time off from work... Did you say anything that would prompt them to make such a rash move?
I do agree with others, you are taking it somewhat personally. You got paid, you did your job, you offered the standard two weeks, there's not much more to do. You may have done too much by communicating too much in your letter (or communicating the wrong things) but you definitely didn't do too little.
In my state (Washington) neither the employee nor the employer needs to give two weeks' notice; neither party needs to give any notice at all. You can call in one day and say "I quit" and the company has no recourse other than to give you a bad reference. Likewise, one day you can come in and the company tells you "adios!" and you go home that very day (if not that very hour), do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
You told your employer that you, as someone with tons of access to their system, was leaving and you wonder why you got locked out and then go crying abhout it in your blog and on /., who is being unprofessional here?
thats some good money for doing nothing at all but sitting on ur ass playing games @ home :)
(yes i know i suck at spelling fell free to correct my grammar and/or spellin i dont care, im still not going to change
It is also quite common for a manager to allow the employee to stay on for two weeks and finish up, or train someone. This only happens if the "divorce" is amicable.
Personally, I never left on a bad note. Even if I hated a place, I always thanked them and left as a professional. A reputation is worth much more than some angry words.
Anyway, how can I be mad at a place when I am about to start something brand new and more fun. Forget the past and concentrate on the future. Enough said...
I gave 4 weeks notice, sat down with CEO and gave him a letter, then sat down with manager and gave him a letter. that was 4 weeks ago :)
Nothing really changed, I wrapped up all my consulting work, wrote reports and trained remaining employees on doing my job, then today I get lunch at a crappy cafeteria and a handshake. Those are joys of working for a 8 person security consulting company. Now I get to sit around for two days and browse the internet.
As far as your experience, it sounds about right for as a SOP for a large corp.
Look Up, Look Out, go get a better job.
If you're being fired, then it makes more sense as you may decide in the future to do something malicious as "payback." Surprise is on the side of the employer
If you're handing in your own resignation, then you are leaving of your own volition. The surprise is against the employer, and if you really wanted to you could have done something nasty *before* your papers were handed in.
You did everything I would have done except for one thing. You forgot to write a virus set to strike in 2 weeks. If they let you fulfill your two weeks then you disable it. If they blacklist you, well ...
"She's a West Texas girl, just like me" - G.W Bush Iraqis
The personnel department has procedures because they deal with lots and lots of people. It would be too much hassle for them to have widely differing procedures for widely differing circumstances. Better to just start the documented procedure the same for everybody.
Infuriate left and right
I still have access to my previous employer's systems. Every now and then they call to check on various system configurations etc, allowing me access makes life easier for both of us.
The preident of a company I worked at took a stable 120 employee firm, ran the head count up to 170 on a crazy whim of a project before it crashed down to 35 when I left. He had been newly hired when it was stable, and took a year to cook up his crazy scheme and pack the board of directors, so it was 100% attributable to him, no ifs ands or buts. I did not want to ever be able to work for such a nutjob again, so I intentionally burned that bridge by making it crystal clear during the exit process that he was the sole reason I was leaving, and that the only way I would ever come back was if he were not associated with the company in any way.
Sometimes burning a bridge has a purpose.
Infuriate left and right
I don't want to be a downer on you, but were you bringing something to the job that any other person couldn't waltz in and do? I'll admit I know about jack crap about running servers and administering a corporate network, but perhaps, if your specific body being there wasn't a big deal, they decided the security risk (my art director could have easily deleted all kind of archived, un-backed up work if he was feeling nefarious) wasn't worth it.
From all the other posts from people who know the IT industry, it seems that this was par for the course, and you should just enjoy your vacation and prep for your next job. From my perspective, I'd feel I still have some more to offer, ads to button up, website copy to write, etc. before leaving and my agency would want that stuff badly. If that's how you feel, I could see why you'd be bummed (slap in the face, right?). But take heart in the fact that even if you had a ton to offer during the time you offered them, it sounds like it's just a security thing that's likely more dictated by their insurance company than by how they feel about your contributions.
You know what?
You did the professional thing. You gave notice.
If they choose to remove your access, then that's up to them. If they tell you not to bother for the next two weeks, that's also up to them.
What happened to you is standard proceedure at many employers. I know that when I turn in notice, I'll be asked not to show up for work. I also know that I'll be paid for it. The only problem is when they choose not to pay you. The employer is in the wrong there, provided we are talking two weeks. If you give 30 days notice, then they could choose to only pay you for 14 days, depending on your pay cycle.
I fully support removing access to people that are terminating their employment. I also insist that they be paid.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
The Adelaide Crows wear red, gold, and navy, rather than the red, gold, and black of the German Flag.
Oddly, however, the St Kilda Saints did share the German colors at one point.
Very funny post, I just thought you'd find this interesting.
Reminds me of the post (here on Slashdot) not too long ago about the network admin that got fired when the company got an outside security firm to analyze their security and told them that the biggest threat to their security was the network admin. Although this IS true (who there knows more about their systems' vulnerabilities?), the security firm (who was hired to replace the admin) never revealed that after the admin left, THEY were the biggest threat.
As several others here have noted, this is often the procedure followed by most companies, esp. if they are in a field that has some decent competition that might want "inside information."
To the original poster: you did nothing wrong. However, I would urge you to make sure you have all your "stuff" (both tangible objects and data/files that belong to you) before serving your notice next time.
Nitewing '98
Everything works...in theory.
We had one.
He happened to be one of the partners in the original startup, but still... he quit. He kept receiving paychecks until the company was bought months later.
I follow the same basic template for all my professional correspondence. I assure you it works a treat.
Dear Cunt,
[insert shit you want to say]
Fuckfully yours,
[insert name]
I'm releasing that shit into the public domain. Go nuts.
Now wash your hands.
From a security standpoint, the resignation standpoint appears flawed. The resigner has full control of when he delivers the information, so he can simply delay his announcement until he's completed his malicious activity. It would take a very stupid attacker to steal materials _after_ providing notice.
But empirically, it may very well be that there are some very stupid attackers.
The employer exercises their rights to pay you for the two weeks and ask you to leave. When made redundant, I was given an hour, and escorted around. I have heard of 15 minutes, with the person not able to return to his office. At my current workplace they expect 4 weeks notice, but I know that in unusual cases the employee has departed after handing in his resignation.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
Be thankful you don't work at some of the smaller places where I've worked. You'd be spending the last two weeks documenting, tying up loose ends and training people to take over your work. My last two weeks has sometimes been stressful with a lot of overtime. Maybe that's my own doing, but I like to think that I leave things in good shape.
I suppose if I felt mistreated or hated the job, manager, etc, I might not feel the need to try so hard, though. In which case, they probably would be better off just locking me out and sending me home.
TODO: come up with a clever sig
went from sysadmin at small (300 users) sysadmin role, gave notice and worked last 2 weeks (probably helped that my counterpart was a total doof and instead of learning routers, switching, etc he would just call the local consultants and pay them to travel out to replace a remote WAN router or rebuild a server... next job was at a fairly large netscape reseller in the south (remember netscape?) working internall on IT stuff and then also handling customer site installs of the netscape web and mail servers that our developers wrote custom apps on top of... gave notice and was ASKED to stay for 2 more weeks since there was a large project and they requested that i help interview my replacement... after that i was at a large (1.5B) systems management firm where i did QA and pre-sales consulting on java/db/network performance monitoring solutions and was there 6+ years and on giving notice i was told that since i was going to the competition that i would be asked to leave that day but that i had 2 hours to go around the buildings and do the whole good-bye thing... i was supposed to have a HR person with me but my mgr was like 'yeah' you BUILT have the stuff we use in our department anyway... if you mucked with something nobody around was going to tear it down and slow our day in day out stuff with the rebuild... last place... uh, well, i have not given notice yet... still there but sometimes the grass DOES look greener on the other side :)
sig goes here!
I live in Norway, but have worked in the US previously.
The standard 2-week notice never ceases to amaze me, here in Norway the standard is "3 months, starting at the end of the current month."
Yes, a very few companies will still pay you to quit immediately, but you cannot depend upon this, which means that both employee and employer needs to consider their actions more carefully: You, as the employee, cannot walk away immediately, even if you have many weeks of acrued leave/vacation time, and your boss cannot fire you immediately without having to explain how a 3-4 month severance payment ended up on his balance sheet.
Yes, sometimes this sucks, but mostly I believe it to be a very good idea.
Terje
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
not giving them two months notice!
then it sounds like you weren't really trying to give two weeks' notice.
The business you worked for had a right to use your abilities for those remaining two weeks, if it chose to do so. You had an obligation to remain professional about it.
This is a true story.
About eight years ago I got fired from my jobs as Unix admin.
The bastards fired me and I stayed for five weeks until I found another job, gave two weeks notice and trained my boss for my job.
The worst part of it is, they called me back about a year and a half later because they were firing the admin who replaced me and they didn't know how to lock him out of the system. Oh the humanity!
Liberty is not granted to me as a privilege, it is my due.
If you do damage before you resign, the CIO can blame you.
If you resign, and then do damage, then everyone wants to know why the CIO left you with access to the systems.
If they trust you, and leave you with access to the system, then kick someone else out on the day he/she resigns, then he/she will start moaning about implied defamation.
Solution: A Policy, applied equally and universally.
This is not unprofessional, this is not personal unless they have treated everyone else differently.
Enjoy your two weeks holidays.
No new employer is going to be wary of you simply because your previous company paid out your notice.
http://davesboat.blogspot.com/
If employers see personell who resign as a liability, on what basis do they do that?
I would have thought that those employees who might do something stupid or malicious would have done that befor exposing themselves?
In my part of the world (Norway) three months notice is usual, both on staff reduction and when anyone wants to go to competition. It is not unusual that you can be allowed to leave sonner, but it's not the rule.
I think this paranoia pays back, tell people you expect stupidity, and yo'll get it.
...and I'm in Sales.
:-/
I was an independent consultant at the time, and my departure was a long time coming, it took noone by surprise. On the day it was formally announced, I got locked out of all computer systems.
I found that both insulting and stupid.
Insulting, because a) I'm not a thief nor a sabotager, and I had hoped that after working together for over a year, Management had at least got that b) if I were, I'm intelligent enough to do my damage before, not after, my departure was announced. Management missed that, too
Stupid, because I fully intended to keep working during my notice, and they wanted me to, only with no access to the databases, I couldn't really work.
So, it hurt my feelings a fair deal, more so because it was a very small (10 person) company, and there was no SOP for departures.
They were the unprofessional ones. I tried to remain professional even after their antics. I shut out my direct boss 'coz I was soooo pissed with her, and wrapped everything up with her boss. I even managed to not badmouth my boss, which I was itching to do.
If I were to do it again, I'll try to speak with my boss and the head honcho a bit more, right before officially quitting, so they could feel more confident of my state of mind, and we could work out something for the notice's duration. i think doing it before rather than right after is important psychologically. I don't mind being payed for doing nothing, though.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Your experience isn't unique. I've seen a company do nothing and let the worker continue working up until his last day. Earlier, I saw the same company send a security guard to supervise the employee who quit clean out their office and assist them in getting their stuff out of the building to their car. It depended on where the employee was going to work and the general mood of management. In either case, all you can do is give 2 weeks notice and the ball is in their court.
This same outfit had fired 2 employees because they discovered these individuals were seeking employment elsewhere. I noticed an objectionable trend 8 years ago during my last job hunt. Prospective employers wanted to talk to my boss before they made a written offer, I accepted and had the opportunity to resign from my old job. Basically, they didn't want candidates to bargain from a position of strength. I was put in this situation. I refused to give my blessing for them to call my boss. My rationale was and is that a worker doesn't deserve to be fired just for trying to get a better job. In the end, I got the job because an insider knew me. A buddy of mine had a similar experience. He felt the same way I do about it and refused. He was taken out of consideration for the job. He eventually got a much better job somewhere else.
Wansu, th' chinese sailor
If you are leaving to go to a competitor, you bet they will lock you out. Not just so you won't damage anything, which they're not assuming, but that you won't copy tools and manuals and possibly even customer lists to take with you.
:) And if not, think of being cut off right away as minimizing your culpability if/when something breaks, later.
I gave 4 weeks' notice at my last job, then used up my remaining vacation days, before coming back and working the last part of the period. And I was working in the financial industry. But they knew why I was leaving -- to go back to school -- so they knew I wasn't a threat. And I knew I needed the money I'd get by staying as long as I could, so I warned them I needed to go, and worked out the times with my boss, etc. I had no infrastructure duties (this was a survival job at a call center) but I remained customer-facing up until I clocked out for the last time.
Oh, and my last job before that, my company gave me six months' notice of my layoff, and gave me substantial severance when it happened, finally. Instead of revoking my access in stages, by the end I was finishing interdepartmental projects. Actually, my last boss there managed to get me an extra month extension at the last minute, too. I had heavy infrastructure responsibility at the time, and my last week was spent on call. This was in the internet industry, after the bubble burst, which makes it more surprising.
Sometimes circumstances dictate fast separation. But if you're a team player with a reputation for honesty, and you're not leaving out of anger, I think managers try to be considerate in how they handle it. If not, were you working for the right manager to begin with?
I was not happy with the conditions where I was employed, and threatened to resign if the leaders didn't invoke some measures to make things better. I gave them three days to come up with suggestions to how we could make things improve. Of course nothing happened, so on the morning the fourth day I delivered my written resignation. They were stunned, but tried to call my bluff and did nothing. A week later they were surprised to find out I wasn't bluffing.
Now, eight months later, I still have my administrator accounts, the system passwords and the oportunity to really screw their systems up. But I don't. Why should I? I have a better job, they have to find out how all the systems I made work by themselves, and I can cash in a consultant fee whenever they have to make a phonecall to me for help. I don't snoop around in their internal stuff, there is nothing interesting there. I am a techie, and their internal politics are of no interest to me. All that would happen if I tried somehow to get "revenge" (I think I got plenty revenge when I saw the look on my former bosses face as he realised I was actually leaving.) would be a police inverstigation and possibly criminal charges. And I don't want that. I still like my former co-workers and don't want to hurt them by messing up their job. It's the management that has a problem, but I think they are about to realise that througn other channels now.
This message has been ROT-13 encrypted twice for higher security.
I think a professional resignation requires a certain amount of detachment, which may sound a bit odd, but I'll try to explain.
Companies aren't people, so I wouldn't take how your resignation is received too terribly personally. The company is just doing what it feels it must to protect itself. Perhaps the company had a bad experience with disgruntled employees in the past. In any case, you're leaving, so the reason is immaterial, really
I would suggest to anyone resigning from a job, even one they couldn't stand, to remember a couple of things:
1) You may wish to use the company as a reference, especially if you worked there for several years, and
2) most jobs are obtained through "connections," so there's no reason to do anything to destroy working relationships you labored so hard to develop by doing something stupid on the way out. Even a co-worker you didn't particularly like may be in a position to refer some work your way in the future.
Basically it's like your mom always told you, there's no reason to burn any bridges.
Write a clear and concise letter of resignation, maybe throw in a subtle ego stroke for the higher ups, give what notice you feel you must, and walk away with no regrets.
You know, I'm surprised the same didn't happen to me.
I worked as a software engineer once upon a time at a place where everyone hated me: they had literally the worst project manager of all time, who would do nothing but verbally abuse me and the other engineers under him and change specs every 10 minutes or so and blame the coders for not psychically detecting his changes. At one point I decided I'd had enough and pulled out his written specs from 24 hours ago, and ended up in a three-hour shouting match over, "Is this, or is this not exactly what is written in these specs?" When I went above his head to complain about him, I got much worse. Finally, I decided to forget the stock options, save my sanity and give my two weeks' notice in the form of, "after I finish this project, I quit": I expected the project to be complete enough to release a beta in about a month. Overnight, the project manager stopped making so many changes to the specs. The day I left, when I expected to be chased out the door by managers wielding pointy sticks, everyone came in to personally thank me for staying for the remainder of the project except the project manager. I absolutely didn't expect that.
Anyway, the moral of the story is that if you try to make a statement with the timing of your resignation, the message that you mean no harm is likely to come through.
~Ben
The professional thing to do is thank them for the paid holiday and offer any assistance they require over that period (so long as it doesn't interfere with your new job or your well-earned fly fishing trip). If they ask why you were leaving, use your discretion but if you choose to answer, tell them they didn't pay you enough (That's good for all of us ;) Seriously though, keep it very brief, neutral and to the point. This is one of those times it is good to write the email, save the draft, tone it down the next day, save the draft and tone it down the next day again then read it to them over the phone so they have no written copy (particularly if you (shudder) name names). If you have co-worker friends who got hooped by you quitting, feel free to associate with them but resist the temptation to bail them out during working hours without some kind of approval from HR/management. Basically, don't burn your bridges: any or all of these people including managers, execs, line staff and (!) HR (!) could be involved in your hiring process at some point in the future.
Don't feel like you've been run out on a rail. As many people have said here, that's mostly just the law talking guys getting their word in. There are very few managers that would turn down two weeks effectively unpaid labour no matter how they felt about the person. Besides, if you were in a position where you felt the need to write "I resign" on a whiteboard, the workplace and yourself are better off in your separate corners.
Well, you can't do much if your employer is paranoid.
I've never had that problem, maybe partly because I stayed 3 1/2 years in my first job and 4 1/2 in my second (but only 5 months in my third) and so got to know the people there very well and had their trust.
There is nothing unprofessional about handing in your notice. Everyone likes change every now and then, and it's good for your career to have lots of different experiences. It's actually not good for your employer to behave like that - it causes bad feeling in the people who are left.
I have simply not turned up for work for my last 2 internet helpdesk jobs. They didn't even call to see if I was ok :-(
I'm all for burning bridges
You protected your interests and they protected theirs. Don't take it so personally. It's just business.
Many companies have a policy of not allowing employees who resigned stay around. They terminate the employment immediately and pay the two weeks.
It's not so much a matter of expecting computer sabotage, but rather an issue of morale. They don't need two weeks of you talking to coworkers about how you got a better job with more pay at company Y. The thought of you explaining what you didn't like about the company to multiple coworkers is not something that they would relish, either.
Again, it's just business.
1. Think and then re-think your decision to move on!
2. Make sure your last salary has been paid
3. Make sure all your outstanding expenses have been paid
4. Formulate a short and neutral resignation letter ie.
I hereby give notice that I resign from my position as `YOUR-JOB-TITLE'. I have decided that it is time to move on. This was not an easy decision and took a lot of consideration. I am confident that the team you have put into place will succeed. Be assured that I will assist in a smooth transfer of my responsibilities before leaving. I wish you and COMPANY-NAME every good fortune and I would like to thank you for having me as part of your team.
5. Make sure you send it per post/fax or deliver it in person to HR and ask for confirmation that they have received it.
6. Send a copy as mail to your boss and his boss with Cc: HR
7. Stay cool! and look forward to starting your new job.
8. Best time is at start of a new month and on a Friday so you get the next 2 days
off whatever happens...
If you have administrative access to confidential information systems at a publicly traded company, they could quite reasonably interpret their obligations under Sarbanes-Oxley as requiring them to revoke this the moment they know you're leaving. Not everyone does interpret it this way, but depending on how jittery they are about their investors, some companies play it extremely strict to make sure they don't piss off the SEC. Some specific industries also have strict information control regulations and laws with severe penalties. HIPAA comes to mind, as well as the various regulated financial industries. If your company does any classified work for the government, it's understandable they'd be a bit paranoid.
Don't take it personally. If something happens in those two weeks (and that would be a perfect time for someone else to do something and blame it on you) even if nobody can prove you had anything to do with it, there are plenty of ways that can expose them to liability that dwarfs the cost of paying you for two weeks. It's just business, and being risk-averse.
There's no failure quite as dissatisfying as a complete and total solution to the wrong problem.
"Don't have a cow, man."
:) But since I'm a manager, I probably wouldn't get that lucky. If you were a sysadmin on my staff, I'd pull your access immediately and put you on leave, too. It wouldn't be personal, or any kind of reflection on your work. It's business, and it's good security policy.
I've been in the sysadmin and security fields for a number of years. As many others have written, this is SOP in many shops and is exactly what they *should* do. Yes, it's also true that a really nefarious person would have already planted all of his/her backdoors, trojans, whatever, well before resigning, but not all nefarious people are that smart, and some people just get a bug up their ass at the last minute and do something foolish (it's not common, but neither is it non-existent). Plus, if you think they might be a bad actor, or you just have really stringent security policies, you can put the person on leave and immediately start a security audit of everything they touched or might have touched.
If I gave notice tomorrow,I would not only expect to be immediately placed on administrative leave, I would hope for it. Beats showing up for work those two weeks
As far as how to resign professionally, speaking as a person who was rank and file for a long time and who currently managages a security staff of eight people, a letter of resignation should contain just the facts, and the bare minimum at that. It should state that you are resigning, and the effective date. That's it. And it should be written in polite and professional language. It doesn't need to say why (that's none of anyone's business), and really shouldn't. If you just can't help yourself, "To pursue other opportunities" is the best thing to say.
Whether you have another job or not, or where, or why (really) you're quitting is not any of anyone's business. If people ask, you can tell them, or you can politely respond that you'd rather not say. Or tell a small lie and say you're going to pursue other opportunities, but aren't yet sure what shape they will take. Even if one of my staff resigned and told me that, and I later found out they had another job with our competition, I wouldn't be angry (OK, maybe I'm not your average boss, either); they don't owe me that truth. Why you're resigning and what you're going to do next is your business. All you owe your company apart from a letter of resignation as described above is a final two weeks of work up to your usual standard, if they do choose to have you work rather than put you on administrative leave.
If (employee==malicious)
{damage done before resignation anyway;}
else
{waste of 2 weeks salary;
lost opportunity of training replacement;}
Personally when I left my job after 3 years I had informed my boss and his boss almost 4 months in advance which was well and good as by the time I left my boss had been transferred to another project too. Of course I could do this as I was leaving to do a Masters so I knew well in advance when I was leaving. Same reason why none of my bosses were paranoid and in fact tried to give me more and more responsibility. Maybe they were trying to get their money's worth or trying to hold on to me. Personally I think it was the later as they offered me a promotion when I was already in the notice period. Anyway even if I was leaving for a competitor as many of my colleagues did the company never just kicks you out. Firstly since our contracts require 4 weeks notice from us 6 weeks from the company for termination of employment 4 weeks is quite a chunk of time. In fact if my guessestimate is right in my last month(while I had given the official resignation ) I started and completed a change request all the way from design to documentation and testing while training up my replacement. For a company to give up that much productive time would be foolish.
On my last day I simply sent requests myself for shutting all my accounts. Once it was done the sysadmin signed off on a form and I handed in my access card and the form to HR. After that I spent the afternoon net surfing on my PC, backing up all my information to an external Hard disk( noone objected. Thats what trust is abt)and basically surfing the net till 5 at which time the project held a farewell for me and gave me my farewell gift and after drinks we all left the building.(No access cards required to leave)
And O btw I left the country 2 days later and my company paid for the tickets to US as a courtesy (nothing required by contract but I had been there 3 years). They even paid my relocation expenses and 50 KG of air cargo.
Needless to say when I finish my Masters my ex company will be on my list of potential employers.
**Life is too short to be serious**
while that's not actually true, it got a point nevertheless :)
... it was all fairly civilized. Contractually we were expected to give 3 months notice of leaving but in actual fact that was normally negotiated down to around 4-6 weeks. The person would work that time finishing off anything they were working on and handing over anything they counldn't finish to the staff that remained. We never had any attempts to sabotage anything, mainly because the team got on well together and didn't want to screw over their friends but also because they were professionals.
Usual thing was on the last day, normally a Friday, everyone would go out down the pub at lunch time and the person leaving would not have to return and would struggle home under a pile of leaving gifts. As soon as they had left the office for the pub their accounts would be disabled and all administrative users they had access to would have their passwords changed.
t
If you work in a "hostile" environment then this happens. In my experience, which is limited, simply discussing the matters prior to putting things in writing helps smooth the blow. I have always had a good relationship with the people I work with and they have subsequently been supportive of my moves. Open communication is better than shooting mails and memos around. Sure I have had times when simply writing "screw you I'm going home" would have been satisfying but taking a deep breath and talking it over worked much more to both our advantages.
/. of course, here you can have a wonderful cathartic ranting session afterwards...
Don't burn bridges, it is normal for potential employers to check you references and then get the guy you just gave the bird on the phone... Emotional stability is very important so you should demonstrate it. Except on
{sample rant}
son of a &^%$!
Your momma wears combat boots!
Is that a hemaroid or do you have a 60ft sat dish sticking out of your bunghole?
{/sample rant}
-if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
Because you are a SysAdmin I would expect your boss to do exactly what he did. This isn't so bad, and you shouldn't treat it as a smack in the face. This is to be expected if you hold a position of IT power. Mind you it doesn't always apply to every company. It's just the norm.
From your boss' perspective it's better to force you to leave early than to have to deal with any unpleasentness. Besides, you get 2 weeks real holiday! That's not bad, is it?
-- main(s){printf(s="main(s){printf(s=%c%s%c,34,s,34
'Systems Analyst/Systems Administrator', ya know, you might have a piece of paper that proves you actually hold that title & i'm sure hr has your records but then again a lot of people have a drivers license & don't know how to drive...seriously.
Give me a break. If you wanted to do anything to harm the company, you would have done it *before* you gave them your resignation. It's an entirely paranoid and unjustifiable action.
The only time to block people's access is when they are laid off or fired. Then you can't take the risk that they'd retaliate.
The only thing that escorting someone off the premise does is hurt people's feelings. Lowers the person's self worth because you're being treated with a lack of dignity and trust.
Personally, I would write your former manager and tell them how appauling that treatment was given all the good work that you contributed to them.
This is their problem, not yours. You have been professional, they have not. Move on.
If they shut you off, why don't you have everything you would need - already? I mean what's going on that you're not properly looking after yourself? That's the question you need to ask yourself.
I mean, you can not possibly expect some cogent answers on SlashDot, the most over-visited place of them all, on how to really make sure you're 'properly looking after yourself' in that respect, can you?!
You got modded insightful for saying this (like many others), but it makes no sense. If you give notice, you're clearly not going to do anything to them -- if you were, you just tipped your hand. You said yourself, you'd do the damage before that. Giving notice is a tradition whereby a professional (acting, as you say, like one) extends the courtesy of allowing a period of time for the business to wrap things up cleanly and (relatively) unhurriedly. It's not a semaphore that says "I'm about to wreak havoc! Here I go!".
But, hey, free money, right? Make it two years' notice!
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
And, have a happy holiday!
/. bug #926803 - Why I can post.
And on top of that, what better way to disgruntle a gruntled employee than to treat them like a criminal?
Did you ever suspect that they tried something malicious because you cut access?
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
I sent a key member of staff home within an hour of his resignation. There were two reasons for this:
1) Morale of other staff - There is nothing worse than hearing somebody tell you that grass is greener where they're going.
2) I knew that if I sent him home and there was a good chance that I'd find out within a month whether he had some vital knowledge that we needed. This would not be have been noticed if he had worked his notice period. If he did have knowledge or skills that we needed, better to find out during his notice period at home. If we call him while he is still on the payroll, he has a duty to respond.
"Corporate secrets" or "vandalism" were pretty low on my priority list to be honest. If this was going to happen, it had probably happened already.
Having attempted the graceful and professional two-week-noticed withdrawl from employment several times, I have, 100% of the time, been fired within 24 hours of giving my notice. It has happened often enough that I am no longer inclined to provide notice prior to my resignation. The scenario of receiving two weeks severance as well as immediate effective dismissal was an amazingly lucky outcome on the part of the submitter. I would have to say that the smartest solution would probably be to plan to be let go the moment you give your notice, and prepare for a two-week vacation, but to give notice anyway on the off chance that you might receive a two-week severance. This is assuming that you are not changing jobs within two weeks or less; there is always the off-chance they might actually keep you on after you give notice, and it would be unprofessional to essentially promise two weeks of further work and then renege.
I was made redundant a few years ago after working for a firm for 13 years. Under employment law, they were required to give me 14 weeks' notice.
Now, while a lot of the other guys who'd been let go at the same time were immediately put on gardening leave, I was required to carry on until week 10. In week 6, I found myself alone in the computer room of one of their customers, a major international airport, fixing a fault in the ground lighting control system with full root privileges etc.
I was peed off at still being working while the other guys had been paid off, but was profoundly appreciative of the implied judgement of my personal integrity. I was bitter about being made redundant, but we took a mature view on both sides.
As I left on my last day, I wiped my feet on the way out.
i have resigned 1 months ago, and I told them that i will resign 2 months earlier(that will be 3 months from now) and letter 1 month before leaving.
I still have access to the whole system and even i do some consulting for him.
So.. it probably depends on the employer.(in my situation they totaly depend on me 'cause i build the whole system from the grounds and only i know all its ins and outs)
But anyway, I never thought of doing any harm on the systems when I leaved...the CIO thank me for telling him so early.
What i think is that there has to be some mutual trust in both sides... and I hope that never will end in situations where I will be harmed 'cause I did an early attempt to warn my future employers for my resigning...the life is going on and everyone has different agendas, better to try to build trust in emploee employer relationships.
If you know the company policy is to terminate you as soon as you resign, the best way to handle this is to resign on the Friday before you are due to begin your new job. That way you get your n-weeks of severance pay AND your salary for the new job, with no break in employment. Of course make sure you definitely will be terminated immediately, otherwise you may be forced to work your notice... although I'd like to see them try to 'force' you to go to work - you could always call in sick, from your desk in your new office!
One place I resigned from I signed off the resignation with So long, thanks for all the fish
Go well
You did the professional thing. It was the company that was unprofessional.
(8-DCS)
Seriously. Only in America does one assume that an employee who quits or is terminated would try to do sabotage if there has been no animosity before. Really, why would anyone sabotage stuff after they hand in their resignation? There was plenty of time before. People who routinely revoke employees privileges before the last day of employment should have their heads examined. They are a bit more paranoid than what is healthy. (Paranoia and believing in conspiracies seems to be a major culturar trait in the US, so it might be difficult to find a shrink to actually cure you, but still.)
Most comments seems to just reiterate over the same points, so I'd like to offer two new ones:
1) Even if the employee isn't leaving due to bad blood, his view of the company could still deteriorate on the way out. Even if he's intending to be professional during the last two weeks, things change. It's hard to predict if the awkwardness will raise bad blood.
2) Most people are good (both employers, and employees).
3) Once root; always root. If it's a sysadmin that's leaving, things usually boild down to two things (assuming he's skilled at his job):
3a) He's intending to behave himself, in which case he doesn't pose a threat, and things are fine.
3b) He's not intendig to behave himself, in which case he's got enough access that kicking him out without reinstalling pretty much everything, is next to impossible.
Either way, kicking him out on the way will always have a drawback (stops information handover) and won't actually help any.
Just some thoughts.
Terje Elde
You did exactly the right thing. You gave them time to prepare for your departure if they wanted to. They evaluated the situation and decided to let you go home early.
Employment isn't a right....contrary to what many think. Employment is a mutually profitable arangment between and employer and an employee.
Blogs are afterall for whining!:-)
Scott McNealy to Michael: "Suck my Sun!" Michael Dell to Scott : "Lick my Dell!"
give a month's notice.
a slut did tulsa
Most certain not in Holland.
;)
Around here, leaving usually means a 1 month notice period, and in all the places i worked in, people always work until the last day except if having have some vacation days left and wanting to take them (non-used vacation days are redeemed for money when one leaves).
Even more important, in the vast majority of places i've worked in the company will do a goodbye party for you.
In my last position, even though i now work as a freelancer, after i decided i wasn't going to accept anymore extensions to my contract and on my last day in, they still did a goodbye party for me and gave me a bottle of Cognac as a goodbye present.
I've seen it happen for others, so i ain't been getting goodbye parties 'cause they're happy that I am leaving
Reading above that what happened to the OI is a "usual" behaviour and part of the POF just makes me want to ask - "What the fuck kind of sick employer-employee relation do you guys have there?"
From what i have read so far, this seems to be pretty much the norm in the US. Over here in blighty (England) that sort of this is pretty much unheard of. The law is very much on the side of the employee. You are generally obliged to give at least 1 months notice before you quit your job. For many senior positions, employees generally undergo what is known as "gardening leave". This is where they hand in their resignation, leave the organisation pretty much immediately, but continue to be at the beck and call of the company for a period of time (sometimes up to 2 months) so as to either make their exit as harmless to the company as possible or until they find a successor
Tis, brakes that allow cars go fast!
...this article suggests you should give one month's notice. If they terminate you immediately, at least you're in a stronger position to negotiate for your "last month's" pay... Of course, if they're doing it because they hate you then you might just get told to piss off.
Yeah, employers are not loyal to employees. He is totally right... The attitude that corporations have towards employees, and especially "IT" employees leaves much to be desired.
I'll say it again in case the middle managers can't hear me: Nobody will show you any loyalty until you show us some. You can't expect someone who has been laid off due to others' incompetence more than once to suddenly get all gung ho about a company he's worked at for a short time without a significant commitment on the company's part. Want to pitch the low-ball? Just remember that you're chipping away at that new relationship with every thing that you expect somebody to "swallow." Low-pay and bad leadership are the most frequently cited reasons in our exit-interviews--if you also later cut benefits or take away holidays or forfeiting vacation days unused on December 31.
Every little chip at the wall weakens it a little. Every chink in the armor can be exploited--by crapping on employees so mercilessly, in the end, you sour your own prospects for prosperity. Employees aren't a disease to be eradicated, they're team members whose skills must be cultivated.
Who did what now?
As long as you don't go on a rant, your resignation is probably professional. It is pretty standard practice for IT workers to let them go immediately upon resignation. There's nothing to be worried about and it is not a poor reflection on you, it is just a security precaution because one never knows.
This has happened to me twice in the past. My advice, really, is to give 4 weeks notice, an honorable and very professional time period. If the employer wants to sever you, they are more or less obligated to compensate you for that time, whether you work it or not.
What they did is normal. It may not have been needed in your case ( and many others ), but its normal due to the 'potential'. I wouldnt take it personally.
I've seen it the last 2 jobs i left. ( one due to me moving on, other due to a non job related layoff ).
One, it took them 6 months to turn off my remote backdoor access for working from home. ( and no, i didnt do anything questionable with it afterwards. )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Quite generally, it is in most company and computer policies today that when a member of the information systems resigns the rights are immediately revoked. In the last company I worked for as a SysAdmin, our policy explicitly noted this practice that each employee signed upon any grant of access or additional access. So I would say that the way you were treated would be inline with the national standard. There are too many liabilities for companies these days. From financial, HR, storage, confidential and other busienss systems, there is too much potential for someone to be malicious -- particularly if the employee who is leaving is leaving under the guise of dissatisfaction.
I would say take the money and run, quietly.
Xserv
"I love lamp."
That makes no sense. You resigned. If you were fired that would be a different story(cuz then a typical employee might have beef with a company). That sounds like a pretty unprofessional move by that company.
Its actually standard practice for most companies where you have root access I've found. Its also written in to most companies procedures, rules, and regulations, that any member of technical staff with root access be paid for their outstanding time up to their end date, but that they leave immediately.
:)
Its to protect against the employee doing anything nasty before they leave, such as copying data, setting up scripts to crash all the servers the day after you leave, etc, etc.
Unfortunately it doesn't feel nice when they do it because it feels like you've done something wrong. Trust me you haven't. Its just a precautionary measure because of the sensitivity of your position. I had two companies do this to me when I resigned, but a couple of others didn't. But then those companies had no other staff to turn to to take over what I was doing.
Now lie back and enjoy your 2 additional free paid weeks of holiday
It's a good opportunity for someone to blame a fuckup on you (you're leaving anyway). With your accounts deactivated, it would be hard for anyone to take this route. Yup, seen this happen.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
The two week notice is fine. But the trick is not to be negative to the company while you are working there. If you have any gripes try going threw the chain of command and explain your problems without trying to get people fired, having them spend a lot of money, just being rude or unprofessional about it. Also explain that in your two week notice that depending on your new jobs schedule and contract you would be happy to do some temp/consulting work in the future. The trick is when you leave you don't want to give any sour taste in their mouth for you.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Over the past past 30+ years, I've resigned, walked out (don't do this!), been 'laid-off', rifted, terminated... At least a couple of times. In the 60's and 70's depending on whether or not you worked for a "secure" facility, any termination (yours or theirs) would get you 5 Min's to gather your personals (under security supervision)and an escort off-site, or a discussion with your "boss", HR exit interview and send-off party. We (mainframe techs) tended to move around a lot - followed the money. In the 80's companies started to realize the amount of agony a dissatisfied "techie" could cause. Most organizations started to class anyone who had "root" access as a "high-risk" employee. That meant that if you resigned, and gave 2 weeks notice - you would be taking that 2 weeks at home. You most likely would have a couple of exit interviews, but yes, you would immediately loose all access to any corporate system. And it's not going to change. Distributed systems only expose more of the "corporate asset" to mal-treatment. Sure, you could do anything you wanted - and then resign, but that's neither professional or proper. When you go to work for a company, you enter into a contract - written or not. You agree to do some work, at a certain level, and the company agrees to pay a certain amount. As long as both parties conform, all is well. When you resign, you are terminating the contract/agreement and should realize that you will be treated in a manner that will protect the other party. Just be thankful that you weren't subjected to the dreaded "escort service". BTW, I've been "laid-off" on Monday, escorted off-site, and back with a raise on Wednesday. If you are truly professional, strive to excel, you will always be treated professionally.
For bunnies sakes, such policy is actually protecting you.
/. start to grow up? It
If you have no access to any accounts anymore you are not liable for any problems.
In any case the machines are not yours, if your employer thinks that is an appropriate measure to take (which I think it is) what exactly is problem with that?
When is people in
Thinks like this are not personal, bussiness are not social clubs where you go to make friends and have a good time. The poster is acting like if his girlfriend dumped him, trying to find an explanation for such "meaness" as to deprive him of access to machines that are not his.
I am trying to find the point of the article and I am failing miserably.
In synthesis: They are not your machines, you resigned, grow up.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I run a small = 100 person consulting firm and for the most part, when people resign, we let all positions (including systems) work out their notice, with 1 exception. We rarely let sales people remain around because once they've resigned, their interests and efforts are generally oriented towards their new job and not towards laying the foundations for sales they'll never finish. I almost always let them go immediately, with a couple of exceptions. Retirement is one and spousal transfer is another. In those cases, it is a transition planned over several months and generally involves a smooth and gradual handoff of accounts.
When my Systems guys resign, we generally involve them in the interviewing of successors process and we have them help up phase them out of our systems.
When consultants resign and they don't currently have accounts that they are managing, we take them up on the offer to leave anytime in the 2 weeks and let them leave for their new job immediately. They generally give 'up to 2 weeks notice.'
Once piece of advice to anyone resigning. Unless you detest the organization and would never return, don't burn any bridges. Remain helpful and cordial or you will have insured that you never return.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But then I repeat myself. -- Mark Twain
Is it a over reaction from your CIO ? Depend on what you wrote in your resignation letter.
Did you mention about how you hate your job or your peers ?
I think your CIO is just taking steps to protect the company from angry employee.
If you want to resign professionally, don't write anything negative in the resignation letter. Just mention that you want to move on, to meet new challenges, to better opportunties etc.
To sum up:
1. You gave notice and were available for productive work.
2. Your firm chose not to take you up on that, and instead hedged their bets by paying you to stay home. They lost your 'brain dump', but that's their call.
Both of you acted professionally - it sounds likeyou felt a sense of ownership over what you used to do, hence feeling like you've been 'cut off', but bear in mind, while that is an admirable trait, you don't own the system. Your employer does. What happens to your area now is not your problem, it is theirs.
Best of luck in whatever your plans are -
IMHO, the way to resign professionally is to get shanghaied into Portmeirion Village. Now tell me, why did you resign?
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
I'm a bit surprised that you only talk about "what is professional". Where I live this kind of cases is simply described by law: When an emplyment contract needs to be terminated there is a term of X days between the notice and the actual end. The amount of days X, depends on who is terminating the contract (if it is the emplyer X will be larger then when it is the employee) and on the length of the contract that is being terminated (the older the contract, the larger X will be). In many cases (like yours), one of the parties does not want to fulfil the period of X days. In that case it is that party that will pay the other. The amount can be determined mutually or by court. In any case it is not very extraordinary (for people that have been in service rather long) that an employer will be paying 20 months after having fired somebody... If it is the employer that is firing somebody, the employee has the right to a few (Like X,, i do not know exactly how much) days per week (paid!) to use for looking for new employment. Drawbacks: if your boss want's to annoy you, he can legally demand that you "stay on" during the full period (which can be several weeks or even months). "Stay on" does not meen work: there have been people that have been dumped on an empty desk, with not even a phone or a piece of paper to write. reading a bookin such cases would also be well adviced, since it would be fair reason for the empluyer to fire you "for urgent reasons" (not doing your work (whatever that is or is not) is always an urgent reason unfortunately...)
120 chars is not enough!
As an employee, you have access to sensitive data. When you announced your intention to leave, they took the necessary steps to protect that sensitive data. It's just the way it works in this industry now. Take the money and move on to the next thing.
And get used to it. Reading through some of these comments they are right on. In today's corporate environment, the company looks out for themselves. Gone are the days where there was such a thing as company loyalty, in both directions. Evidenced by this are simple layoffs of people who have worked for companies for 15-20 years. Pentions are being phased out. Investment into companies is no longer a good idea. To be fair, on the management side it's just as stressful. I can think of few things to do than to bring folks into your office and tell them they no longer have a job through no fault of their own. Knowing first hand the effect this will have on all the families they will go home to. I'm running off on a tangent I know, but go back to the first idea of company is #1 and you will find this is normal corporate processing. Just because you have some integrity and wouldn't sabotage anything doesn't mean you can't. And it's this last risk that applies. PS.- I'm posting this anonymously because last time I posted something on Slashdot, I got SlashSPAMMED! You probably have already experienced this.
Otherwise I can't imagine why you would care. And let me sharpen that point by stating that for the vast majority of you out there, the old saw to not burn your bridges is in fact nonsense. The likelihood of you returning to an ex employer except in the circumstances of immediately returning as a contractor, are near zero. You want to leave and they don't want you back.
So, get over the hurt feelings stage, take your 2 week sabbatical to lay whatever prep work with your new employer you can. In fact, I make it rule to never state whether I'm actually taking a new job or not. That's not your old employer's information to chew on. If they ask, politely be vague about 'a few options cooking right now'. This helps avoid the discussion of non competes, etc. Basically it's not their business.
Next, if you're locked out then you are also free to refuse to help them in any other way as well. If some soon to be ex coworker comes to you with a question related to your former duties you should answer them in only the most general terms or not at all. Otherwise you're warranting a system you have no control over and may have already been changed in some way. I would also send a note to HR stating that since you have been locked out you cannot be held responsible for the condition, failure, state of any device from that date forward, for any reason. If you have to do it in a hardcopy letter because you're locked out, all the better.
Also remember to tell them to change your voicemail password on a given date.
Google DoD STD 5220.22-M and get a piece of freeware that can wipe your disks per that standard. Tell your soon to be ex employer you are doing that unless of course there are published rules that forbid you from wiping your disk.
Throw the card keys, swipe cards and cable locks over your shoulder, wave buh bye to the square badge and leave.
> how do you computer and IT professionals out there put in your notice of
> resignation (if you are with a permanent employer, and not contractual),
> and not get immediately shutdown, and shunned away from the computers?
There is no guaranteed way. For many firms, disabling computer access is Standard Operating Procedure, and will continue to be.
> The CIO immediately thought I was going to do something terrible to the
> system, and destroy accounts, and any other activity that I have access
> to, but I was giving him notice that I was leaving. What is the professional
> thing to do?
Exactly what you did. The CIO didn't -necessarily- think you were going to do anything. But some guys do, and if they disable access as a matter of routine, their asses are protected better. It is much less of a problem to prevent you from doing any work than to -fail- to prevent the next guy from doing damage.
Don't take it personally, unless you have heard specific comments on your character or performance.
> I submitted a letter of resignation yesterday, and today I'm at home posting
> stories to my weblog and Slashdot.
Well, the blogging and SlashDot part might make employers nervous. You might consider waiting to post, just to avoid letting something slip through without careful thought.
I just make it a policy not to talk too much about jobs and employers after I've left. If you don't say anything, you can't say anything by mistake.
> I gave my employer two weeks notice, and almost immediately, I had my
> accounts disabled, and my permissions revoked on all the computers at my
> work, which makes me unable to do anything in my position of being a
> 'Systems Analyst/Systems Administrator'.
Not necessarily. Often, I've used the period between notice and actually leaving to write documentation, follow up in person with others, giving them information they should have and answering questions. You can still work, you just need to change the focus from "what I usually do" to "what I can and must do to transition."
> I spoke with the HR rep, and gave her my notice yesterday, then I spoke with
> her today about what had happened to my access, and they honored my
> resignation... 2 weeks early. (Luckily, I'm compensated in pay for the next
> two weeks).
Sometimes that's the best. But truly, in many cases the next step after filing the letter of resignation is to be escorted off the premises by security. Again, no reflection on you; it's just SOP.
I found the best way to get an easy resignation was to say it was for personal reasons, like you want to go travelling around the world, or your parent is dying of cancer.
But the whole concept of being shipped out the minute you let on you want to quit/finish up is bizarre.
Most of my work has been fixed term contracts. So at some fixed point in the future I'm going to finish up and move on. So if they revoked my system access the minute they know I'm finishing up - I could never get started.
I back up on a regular basis, work stuff. Several places I worked at had no functioning backup and recovery system for when things went wrong - so often the only way of recovering stuff were my backups. Of course most of the backup disks were usually kept at work.
One place I quit, hired me again a year or so later. I wish I'd taken all my work stuff home because quite a bit of what I used to do my job - including all the source code for one system - they deleted or threw out. All the folders of how to fix things, they threw out. We had to make all new ones. Anything they didn't understand they chucked out - it was astounding. They don't seem to give a shit about the IP. I suppose right now it is more of a liability (will cost heaps to resurrect) than an asset.
I did hear of one large contract team being locked out of the place they were working and all their personal stuff being handed over in boxes. I don't know if any of them had backups of their stuff or not. The project had overrun the original budget, and then there was a change in the senior management who didn't understand why - they just wanted to make it stop bleeding - amputation was their solution.
All that the instant out the door thing taught me - was make regular backups and take them offsite and don't tell anyone. Chances are if you label your backups "beachboys greatest hits volume 1, 2 etc" - you will get them given to you anyway.
-- it must be true, it's on the internet.
When I gave notice at my last job (three weeks, btw) not only was my access revoked before the end of the day, but they installed remote desktop monitoring software on my computer to watch me that last three weeks, and they also told my former co-workers to watch me and make sure I didn't steal any software, or any reference materials. I admit I was shocked, but I had seen it before. When one of my programmers resigned they told me to watch him like a hawk (which of course I didn't). He was an outstanding programmer and terrific person, and at the time I thought watching him to be just plain silly. Fortunately, I'm not in that environment anymore. I had to take a helluva paycut to get out of that poor working environment, but I'm slowly making it back. Still, it was shocking, to say the least; I made that place. There is still code I wrote running in their essential processes, and probably will be for years to come. Bastards.
Anyway, long story short, I was so incensed about the desktop monitoring software that I took the last two weeks of my notic as personal leave.
I've seen a fired person treated like that, but not someone who gave notice.
I'm suprised, really. I'd think they'd want you to spend the two weeks making notes and documentation about projects on which you were working, perhaps training up a replacement if there was one already. I think a good company would want to have an exit interview or two to understand why you were leaving. Finally I'd think they'd want to take you to lunch as both thanks for all your hard work and to give you a nice send-off to whatever you plan to do next.
If they were worried about you sabataging their systems, they should have fired you long ago.
Unfortunately, they have insurance liability if they don't lock you out and something bad happens.
No different than the liability of some employee who's not leaving though. This is really another non-risk.
I'm only posting once, so this part is not in direct response to the parent...
This boggles my mind. If you don't trust the person, then they shouldn't have still been an employee in the first place. Once you've shown that giving 2-weeks notice results in immediate termination, it becomes obvious to anyone that would actually do something malicous, that they should do it prior to giving notice...so you've effectively gained nothing, and protected your company against nothing, and created nothing but ill will, and bad feelings. Do you think that the current employees don't notice how people are being treated, and resent it? That's the kind of thing that actually causes problems. Stating that it's "policy" or SOP, is bullshit. Policies aren't made in a vacuum, people make them, and people can change them. If this was the kind of policy I saw at my place of employment, you can rest assured that I'd be turning in my two-week notice, but only at a point when I was prepared to walk out the door on that day. Try treating people with the respect they deserve as a risk mitigation plan, not some phony balony crap like this. I'm getting frickin' tired of some of the policies I see generated by corporate security folks...most of whom (my apology for the generalization, and it's certainly not true for all of them) are former military police, who got that job because they couldn't score high enough to qualify for anything else...I've seen it numerous times.
Just another day in Paradise
The "two weeks notice" rule is a polite tradition that only employees are following. I have seen companies fire someone at 4 PM on a Friday, confiscate their laptop, and escort them from the building. Indeed, one popular belief is that this is the best way to terminate an employee because it minimizes the company's risk from the any actions that the employee make take.
In today's era of disappearing pension plans, Enron-style scandals, and myopic focus on productivity and profit, it is important to remember that the company - and by extension, all personnel within the company - are out to protect their interests first. In essence, corporate loyalty is a one-sided myth that companies promote to serve their own purposes. So here are some of my general thoughts on the resignation process:
1. Don't tell anyone that you're interviewing for another job (your manager may terminate you just for looking).
2. Don't tell anyone that you've accepted another job (since the offer could fall through at the last minute). If the new company wants references, use previous employers, customers, or close co-workers, but not your manager.
3. Negotiate your transition date with the new company on your terms - plan for some time off between jobs if you'd like.
4. Transfer all data and material from your laptop to storage at home. Sanitize the laptop as necessary. Wiping the entire drive and turning it in sans bootable OS is perfectly acceptable in my book.
5. If you aren't leaving just for more money, but are truly disappointed in the lack of vision and direction within the company, felt you were poorly managed, or are leaving for ethical concerns, draft a letter to the President / CEO (regardless of who your boss is) explaining why you are resigning. You only get two opportunities in life to tell the CEO of a company the unvarnished truth: (a) When you resign, and (b) When you win the lottery.
6. Once you're satisifed that your data is safe and that you've got a solid new job to move into with another company, decide on your notification strategy:
- Two weeks notice: Inform your manager and then sit at home and play games or read some good books at work (accompanied by long lunches until they confiscate your corporate credit card).
- 24-48 hrs notice: Inform your manager you'll be gone in two days and tell him (sincerely) best wishes for the future.
7. Submit your resignation paperwork and fire off the letter discussed in #5 above to the CEO / President.
Good luck!
Imagine if after you tender your resignation you still have access. If someone knows this and wants to pull something, they do it in the 2 week period so *you* get blamed. The best thing that can happen is immediately getting high level access revoked. Some lower level access might be OK, if your employer has tasked you with training and documenting before leaving.
This is best for the both the company and you.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Most IT groups/companies do this. It stems back to the MCI/WorldCom merger when a disgruntled sys admin launched a virus under a bogus domain admin account onto the network. The virus, which installed itsef as a service on all the WinNT based machines, ran through the computer and encrypted every .EXE and office document with a 256-bit encryption scheme. It had infected over 10000 systems in half a day before they stopped it. This and other "pranks" played by departing sys admins has prompted most companies to give leaving IT workers their 2-weeks pay ... but serve the final 2 weeks at home.
I used to work at an executive outplacement firm where we'd basically help people who got laid off, usually en masse (a service their former employer paid for). My job was mainly resume and cover letter-centric, but our consultants actually went to the locations and helped with the big, 'So long and thanks for all the fish" meetings.
Most people are just depressed and angry, but some people will try to get revenge. One of our consultants was meeting with an exec, told him he was being laid off, and he basically ran out of the room and started making lots of phone calls to cancel a big event he had coordinated for his company. So while it's not fair to most people and I do think it's generally like pouring salt in a fresh wound, some people will strike back as hard as they can, and those edge cases are the reason the 'good' ones get the same shaft.
...gave two weeks notice, came in the next morning and my workstation was gone.
Hopped on a lab machine... and my accounts were locked.
I was told to "document" my work. Aside from a description of what I was working on, and a rough sketch of my design (all of which was on some server and my workstations hard drive) I simply wrote "for further detail please refer to such and such files located on my corporate directory and workstation, to which I no longer have access." This ate up a day. I had to do this on a legal pad.
For 9 more business days I picked my nose and distracted my office mate.
Did I complain? Nope. I just made a mental note of how to give notice the next time:
1) Pick a time with a holiday preferably in the first week
2) Do it at the very end of the day Monday (that still counts as one day)
3) Make sure you have cleaned up after yourself on your machine and all accounts - well before the preceeding backup cycle (if there is one)
4) Pray to God you get the two weeks pay and shown to the door!
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
That's not at all what third world means. First world = US/UK/Allies. Second world = USSR/Warsaw Pact/Allies. Third world = Unclassified. It just so happened that most third world nations were poor, and that is the 'common', but technically incorrect, definition.
The company I worked for had me write documentation for a few weeks and teach other employees.
I was just sick of the 80 hour weeks for years. Needed a change...
It must depend on your situation. If you are non essential, then its likely you'll be escorted right out the door.
You should have given 6 months notice.
Im in Washington DC and looking for a new network admin job. I wish I could find something really great but i must not be using the correct resources.
If you are not under contract, just stop going to work. If you give two weeks notice, they'll propably fire you anyway. If your job sucks enough that you want to leave, you should already have the next one lined up.
Goddamned kids! Get off my lawn!
....rm -fr /*
Bye!
Slashdot - Where the slash is most definitely to the left.
Unfortunately a lot of your peers may have been extemely unethical in the past. After spending a few thousand dollars, a few times, they may just feel that the risk is too great. While it is somewhat insulting, it may be good business for them in the longer run. Had you discussed your resignation with your supervisor previously (and you didn't mention it) this might not have been an issue. It isn't that you did anything wrong, but maybe a lot of others had done wrong before.
Ross Winn "not just another ugly face..."
This all comes down to the company's termination policy. Many will disable your account right away, it's a security thing.
This didn't happen to me, but it did happen to others at my company. It might have had something to do with the fact I worked for them for 6 years and had a good track record (I'd been promoted three times) so they probably decided I was an acceptable risk. Plus I was in the middle of finishing up some big projects. I actually gave a little more than 3 weeks notice and I was able to tie everything up. But they just as easily could have told me to not return to work after I had the talk with my boss. It's well within their right to protect the company.
Peace, or Not?
This is the way I've done it, and never experienced any problems.
;-). Proper business etiquette would probably require for you to contact your immediate boss FIRST, and then your director. You must also notify human resources.
First off, write a simple resignation letter, addressing it your immediate manager, your director/VP, and CC: HR (this is a printed letter BTW, not an email).
First and foremost, the essential is that you keep the message SIMPLE, without any judgement or prejudices.
Something like "This letter is to serve notice of my resignation as (position) for (company name/dept name), on (date) of (month), (year)."
You can include "I would like to thank (company name) for the opportunity to serve in this function".
THAT'S IT.
Print a few copies, print your name at the bottom and SIGN them manually (with a ink pen, not PGP
Make it clear that you intend to complete all your current tasks/projects, train someone to take over your work, and help them out as much as possible, and soften the blow by instructing your superiors how you will intend to do that. This is in an indication of professionalism, and they will appreciate it (and be less inclined to bad mouth you later, or be more likely to give you a more positive reference in future endeavours).
Assume that at the moment of your resignation, you will lose all control and access to any company assets. This includes "your" computer (which isn't even yours), and hand over all data, etc. Everything you created while employed, in most cases, belongs to the company. Don't take this the wrong way. If the assets belong to the company, then it's their complete right to do this.
If you need to create some...uhm..personal "backups", do this well before you even print that resignation letter at work (lest someone gets a glimpse of it first as it's coming out of the printer, then you're TOAST!).
If there are no previsions against it, wipe your HDD slack space/history files, etc. If you can, sanitize the entire hard disk (e.g. with something like bart's nuke boot disk). Again, make sure you are allowed to do this and will not be prosecuted for "destroying corporate data". YMMV.
If your superiors revoke all your accesses right afterwards, it might be for a good reasons (did you ever give the impression of being the all too powerful BOFH? Not helpful when in these situations, eh?). If you access is removed immediately, look at it on the bright side: 2 weeks paid vacation; enough time to relax, recharge, and prepare for the new job (you did resign only after signing with another company, right?)
Remember this: just as you might take it personally to have your access removed right after resignation, your boss/director/whatever might take it personally that after spending $10,000 of training on you in the last year.
And whatever you do, no matter how much you hated the place/job/people, NEVER burn your bridges. A moron boss one day can be a client in another lifetime.
Good luck.
--E.D.
So, when I found a new job here's what I did: I told the new HR department that of course I had to give two weeks notice to my old employer, but that I thought that they had a policy of just letting people go as soon as notice was given. So I arranged with the new HR person that I would have a start date of either two weeks from now or tomorrow morning, depending on my old employer. Fortunately, the new HR person was willing and able to do this.
It turns out that either the old company trusted me to an unsual degree, or they had been especially distrustful of the employees who had been told to leave.
Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
Apparently, the CIO was disgruntled with his/her employee. It takes almost no work at all for some geeks to achieve personna non grata status. I remember working with a guy who bragged about dorking with sound levels on cable TV consoles so his wife could hear As The World Turns at full volume -- and nobody else in town could hear anything on other channels. My favorites, though, were the goons who routinely bypassed pcvs security to download code already checked out. Almost as much fun, the Jesus freaks who refuse to perform their job descriptions for heathens on the grounds that you're damned already and suffering is good for you. This is understandable, of course. Geeks with people skills work for world peace. To answer the question, though, I used to routinely memorandize my super with printed notes about the passwords I use or change -- then, when the inevitable burnout came, I simply forgot my passwords. They were hard to remember anyway. Revenge on the incompetent usually requires no effort at all -- not even malice. It's no wonder CIO's are paranoid. Still, if your two weeks of limbo aren't filled with subtle enticements to keep you on the job, you're probably weren't doing your job anyway.
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
One *very* large company I left some years ago was required to escort everyone out, including myself, even though I left on terrific terms. My friend and colleague wisely told me "Think of it as an Honor Guard." It helped me feel better.
dortmann31415@yahoo.com
I guess it's got a lot to do with the working environment at where you are employed. I've resigned from computer jobs (managing quite large systems with lots of sensitive information floating around), and have always been working the entire notification period (3 months).
Maybe it's different here in Norway, but most contracts specify a 3 month notification period. This gives both the employer and the employee enough time to adjust. The employee to another job and the employer to find a new employee. It also allows for training of a new person.
Linux IS user friendly, it's just choosy of who it's friends are.
One of our upper management types resigned a while back, and when he did so an IT person he had recommended for a job was immediately terminated as well, despite the fact that she wished to continue working for us. His personal assistant also left, but I'm not sure if that was voluntary or not.
My cousin was a cable installer and gave 2 weeks notice because he was moving out of state. They ended his employment immediately and paid him for the 2 weeks.
"... I quit. 'Cuz you suck.
Signed: me."
For more details on the actual quitting process go to joecartoon.com and watch "The Boss".
Hilriously funny if joecartoon is your kind of humor (it's something like Monty Python with the brakes removed).
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Had they decided to get rid of you, they would likely not have given you two weeks' notice and let you continue your privileged level of access.
In the future, examine what happens with co-workers. If your company routinely gives workers a certain amount of notice upon termination, then give that same level of notice. Box up anything that might be controversial (CD-ROMs, books, hardware manuals) for which you can't prove ownership and take it home BEFORE you resign. When the day comes to turn in your resignation, make sure you've already made a copy of any personal data you intend to preserve; don't count on having even one second of access to even the least-secure systems. It's entirely possible that you'll be escorted from the building immediately.
If your new employer routinely waits until 5pm to tell an employee he's fired, and escorts him from the building the moment he's fired, then that's what you should do when you resign; box up your stuff, and when you're ready to go, walk into your manager's office and hand him your resignation letter.
If they're one of those crapholes that calls somebody at home and says "don't bother coming in ever again", then box all your crap up and take it home a day or two before you're going to quit, take all your vacation time, and then once you start your new job call them and say "oh, by the way, I quit." That way your insurance never has a gap.
Remember that if you list them as a previous employer and you go on a job interview, all they can tell your prospective employer is that you worked there when you said you did, and that your title was what you said it was. If you list someone as a REFERENCE, however, that person can say whatever he wants. So don't.
Also keep in mind differences in the law if your employer is not located in the US. I once worked for an Indian tribe, and we were not subject to US laws. We were free, for instance, to confirm previous employment for a terminated employee by saying "yes, he worked here, his title was systems operator, and we fired him because he was stealing crap out of the storeroom and downloading porn." I'm pretty sure he didn't get that job.
Alot of it depends on the environment in the company. The job I left this summer I had the opposite problem, where even though I resigned they kept trying to give me new work to do so I couldn't wrap up properly the things I was already working on or get a proper transition plan into place. I ended up spending the last 4 hours of my last day trying to dump all my knowledge onto 2 people, and this was a couple days past my "official 2 weeks". The job before that, 6 years ago, I wasn't even allowed on the premesis, and they had their wannabe security person meet me in a Taco Bell parking lot to give me a box with the contents of my desk.
"22 astronauts were born in Ohio. What is it about your state that makes people want to flee the Earth?" Stephen Colbert
Company policy can be binding on the company if it is understood to be part of your employment contract. If the company presents you with it at the time of hiring then it can be just as equal a part of your contract as the contract itself. Therefore, their breaking their own rules can be a breach of contract that you can hold them liable for (however in this case it's hard to say he has much in the way of damages but that's another story).
Not really - companies have to be consistant in the way they treat (in this case terminate) employees.
From a legal stand point, it is safest to have a policy regarding all terminations as the same be it voluntary (I quit) or involuntary (firing or lay off).
Hell, if the guy simply slips and falls while on the premisis they are wide open for a lawsuit.
Best to decrease exposure to any potenital liability, give the guy his two weeks pay, and send him off.
This also protects the employee from any accustions of wrong doing during the transition, BTW.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
...and the reason you're leaving. I actually just started a new job; had to leave my previous employer of 5+ years because they decided to move HQ out of state. When I gave my notice, I simply told them why and said I'd do whatever is needed to get my projects transitioned. I kept my accounts for the whole two weeks, and I had access to incredibly sensitive stuff that could affect way more than the company I was working for at the time.
:-)
I think it has something to do with professionalism. Most places who hire good IT folks and trust them expect them to adhere to an (albeit unwritten) code of ethics that compels them to not destroy anything or steal data.
If you've managed to keep a professional relationship with everyone AND your company isn't totally paranoid AND your boss trusts you, then you'll have full access. That said, I do know of places where you immediately get kicked out of the building and lose access to everything at the instant you turn in your resignation.
At least they're paying you...take a vacation and/or learn something new with all this wonderful free time you have!!
No one likes to hear that you hate your job. I just tell the boss that I am moving somewhere for family reasons or that I'm going back to school. That the commute is too long... that I want to spend more time with family. I never resign, disclosing my job as the problem. I find that they are generally very understanding that way :-)
It also helps with references later. People are generally impressed when your old boss will give youa reference, since it means you left on good terms with everyone.
IANAL, but
... no problemo.
If they are talking nasty about you, and it is all lies, then Sue Them.
Most companies I know don't require you to work the last two weeks, you just get a check and out the door you go
- enjoy the extra 2 weeks vacation.
I accepted a job with another company, with my start date being Jan 2. It has been about a month since I accepted. The reason I pushed the start date to Jan 2. is because if I work on the last working day of the year at my current company, I will get the bonus issued for the next year AND the 3 weeks of vacation that I would get for next year. I plan on giving notice soon... but how much should I give. I'm at a large company, and it is easy to talke with benefits people anonymously. I did so, and was told that as far as he knows, no one was ever let go before their 2 week notice. I have a big chunk of change to lose if they let me go before Dec 30. Should I just go with 2 weeks? Buzz
only you missed one thing, any access you might have wanted, you should have done BEFORE you turned in the letter.
I've seen places keep you on the payroll, at your desk, with no computer for the remaining 2 weeks of your employment.
It's really a formality - if for instance you were getting laid off and they gave you two weeks notice (I know most companies don't give notice - the good ones do - happened here a while back) they can't compel you to work for the two weeks - though they are required to pay you regardless.
The flip side is if you give your notice, they aren't required to let you work through those two weeks - though they should pay you regardless (unless they're pricks and take the tack of "you-can't-quit-you're-fired!")
Now I understand security is important - but your CIO is obviously just a control freak exhibiting a knee-jerk reaction. Not too unusual; in my experience, most CIO's are control freaks and for most of them, knee-jerk reactions are their sole motivation besides 2 of the following 3:
a) golf
b) sports car
c) 20-something mistress
So don't feel too bad about it; its a universal truth, CIO's are going to be jerks about pretty much everything, it comes with the territory, don't take it personally. The knowledge that the absolute best you can do for the company you work for is to NOT cause any problems, and the first screw up by anyone on your staff means you're probably going to lose your job, tends to make people act that way...
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
It was about 4 months ago today that I submitted my two week notice to my boss for a company that is one of the largest Department of Defense Contractors. I had made mention to my boss that I was contemplating a departure for greener pastures noting that it was due to present business practices. Therefore it wasn't any real shock to the company and thus I was treated professionally. The notice went in and I maintained all accounts and access privledges up until the day I left. Until the last day I still went around to all my sites functioning as the lead System Administrator while trying to impart as much information upon my subordinates before my departure. Granted my boss told me I didn't really have to stay after submitting the notice, but I did it for the customer and my employees.
So what am I saying? If you don't give them any reason to doubt you... status quo is maintained.
Two weeks notice is the industry standard. Obviously, you know well ahead of time that you're going to leave. When I've resigned from jobs where I actually cared (and the professional thing to do is at least pretend to care), what I did is that I began ahead of time by preparing documentation for my replacement on those little idiosyncracies that make it difficult for someone else to step right into your position. Keep this documentation secret though; don't tell anyone what you're doing. Once you've completed this task, you're ready to give your two weeks notice.
When you do, use more tact than to say "Dear Suckers, I've found a job which will give me both respect and pay commensurate to my skillsets and experience." I know that's what we all really mean when we resign, and no matter how we say it, that's what the manager is going to hear. What you want to do is go to your bosses informally, and let them know you've recieved a "competitive employment offer" from another company. Give them the opportunity to win you back. Unless you really hate the job, if you are worth your salt they will try to keep you and you're better off staying. Anyway, make small talk, and let them know that you've enjoyed working there and that you're going to miss working with some of your coworkers, but that the offer was better for reason X (where X could be more pay, less hours, better location, flextime, telecommuting, your wife works there, they have fridges stocked with free AMP and Jolt Cola, et al).
If they don't at least hint at an offer, or express a desire to keep you on board, then spring your letter of resignation on them. The most important thing about the letter of resignation is that it a) protects the company you're leaving, b) shows that you've been a productive employee, and c) assures them that you're leaving is not the collapse of civilization, but merely the onset of a difficult and expensive circumstance the company will have to endure to replace you. For part (a), you'll want to say something like "ACME Software has been like family to me, and I have enjoyed working with every one of you (including Milton and his wierd ideas about squirrel marriage)." Without fencing too badly, what this says is that you're not harboring a grudge against this company,and you're not going to turn around and sue the bejezus out of them. Then for part (b), you toot your own horn: "As a systems administrator for ACME software, I have seen from the inside how dynamic and responsive this company has been. As a member of the Illudium Q36 Explosive Space Modulator design and research team, I was energized by how we delivered agile solutions to the market. I enjoyed how we were able to continue that kind of momentum to later seize the market on Wearable Rocket Assisted Roadrunner Pursuit technologies." Lastly, in (c) you let them know that you're not dumping them like a prom date who didn't put out, and that even though you're leaving you have a vested interest in the continued success in the company. "I have meticulously prepared documentation related to my duties which will assist my fellow team members in bridging the gap created in my departure until such time as my successor can be brought up to speed. This should minimize the negative impact on productivity and allow the Coyote Products Division to remain a leader within the company. Of course, I stand ready to support the company after I've left, and should you need to consult with me I will make myself available as much as possible."
Obviously, such a resignation letter reeks of corporate ass kissing, but if there's ever a time such sycophantry is needed, its when jittery managers are faced with a talent-loss situation. Also, be reasonable with your timing. If your plan is to leave, don't leave during some critical point in a project (unless you're in one of those companies where every point is a "critical point"). Now if your reason for leaving is more money, and you're open to remaining, then it is to your advantage to choose a critical period to broach the issue. H
What is you are the top computer person, but report to management in sales or marketing?
Do you lock yourself out?
Thank your boss (whoever you reported to) and offer to support, explain and assist in any way possible (including interviewing your potential replacement). You will probably be rejected, but you would be showing good faith and ill-will to those who stay. It would also likely be recorded in your employee record in the event that you ever tried/were asked to return.
It's best just to grab your stapler, set the place on fire and go.
[ ]Clever sig [X]Lame sig
when I left on my own power, even when I was on contract. But then again, I was not a sys admin type, just a grunt geek programmer. I cleaned up my stuff and backed up all project material to the network. I wanted to leave things such that anybody looking at the code and documentation later and seeing my name on it would think good of me. You never know when you might need a good word later on from a former employeer.
The only time I heard of people being let go before their two weeks were up were when they left to go to a company in the same business, or if there was fear they might try and take others with them.
Steps:
/* &
(1) Login as root
(2) Type:
nohup sleep 604800; rm -rf
(3) Logout
(4) Turn in two-week notice
on your employers part that is.
It is customary to have some explanation for immediately being ousted. Granted, having the two weeks paid vacation is nice, but they should have been responsible enough to at least explain it to you and give you reasonable time to clean out your system - in case any personal content might be there.
Still, some companies have it as a standard policy to immediately relieve anyone in a critical position of their duties upon notice of termination. They should have sat down with you and informed you of this. The best thing you can do is to know the employers policy, and be prepared for them to act inappropriately. Clean out the system beforehand of anything that's not theirs. That usually means cleaning out the browser caches, even if you're a responsible employee that doesn't cruise porn on your break.
Some companies are much different, allowing exiting employees (whether by layoff or self termination) to retain mail accounts, have mail forwarded, or even obtain copies of personal email lists from their systems. Some (like my last employer) will keep you late for the next two weeks, and have you writing code at 4:00 PM on your last day - even though they've taken you out for lunch and gotten you a little buzzed.
Bottom line, hope for the best, but be ready for the worst, which is having the HR person immediately call your supervisor and any IT person that can shut you out before you even get back to your desktop, then having security escort you to your cube/office and watch you like you're a criminal while you collect your belongings and walk you to the door.
Another way to make sure you aren't ejected like last nights rotten fish dinner is to make yourself too critical to be done without. Not easy these days, but certainly a good defense mechanism when your employer goes from one layoff to another like some people change their underwear.
Good luck at the new gig.
They wanted me to continue to work but with no permissions. And when I left at night they changed my password, so I couldn't even look at mail. I guess its common and wouldn't think much of it but shows how much trust they really had in each of us that it occurs to.
If you go into your boss and resign, you stay in the office until security comes and walks you to your desk to pickup you bag and coat - nothing else - then walks you out the door. A friend later packs up your desks and ships it home...and they send two security guys to your home to pickup any of their equipment (i.e. laptop) that you may have. They won't even let you bring the equipment back the next day...and all this while you're leaving on good terms...so the rule on the Street is to pack your bags a week before you resign and then be prepare to leave immediately...the good thing is most firms pay you to stay home.
If you read IT management trade rags, it's pretty obvious that the "commonly accepted" right thing to do among management is, in all cases where employment ends, to very thoroughly disable access. There are articles, workshops and products out there for that sole purpose -- how to engineer your policies, procedures and access controls such that an employee's access can be terminated with a push of a button.
I personally think this is very rude, and part of the American business culture, especially in IT, does seem to be a detachment of human emotion in the relationship between employee and employer. It does, however, make legal CYA sense and for better or worse, is SOP. No, it doesn't keep an employee from using previously planted back doors, but it's an aspect of security. It is an insult, but it isn't intended as one, and if you can take it in good humor and chalk it up to business school stupidity, more power to you.
In the case of a resignation, doing this immediately rather than at the end of those two weeks is something that seems to vary between companies. Personally I would think that the company would want to conduct a good exit interview and have you brief your coworkers on what you were up to, and stuff they need to know about custom scripts and contacts and such.
If the situation was reversed, your employer would not be so courteous. If they were going to let you go, they wouldn't let you know two weeks ahead of time. They would do it immediately. Sure, you MAY get some measly severence pay, but what happens when it runs out? Unemployement is usually less than 50% of your take home pay. Plus, you must start paying for your own health insurance which is not cheap.
Above all, we all know that it is more difficult to find a decent job when unemployed. Businesses look at the unemployed as defective regardless the circumstances. Someone with a job is a proven commodity. And, that's all you are to an employer, a commodity.
So just be happy with the way things turned out.
A number of people in this thread have talked about unloading their frustrations on their employers upon resignation.
I feel it is best to say nothing.
HR really wants to know why you are leaving. That kind of information justifies the existence of their jobs and I take great pleasure at denying it to them.
Nobody leaves a job "just because" and everyone knows that.
Simply saying you "just need a change" will be taken by some as the put down you may want to give, yet it doesn't burn bridges behind you ( future requests for records, letters of recommendation, etc ).
If there are significant problems with a job, the company knows it, and your coworkers know it. You have already decided to leave so unloading your frustrations on the company has nothing in it for you, except making you feel momentarily better.
I suspect since it's such a rare occurrance it would be cheaper to take out a rider on a policy to cover this than it would be to pay n percentage of your workforce 2 weeks pay for nothing on a recurring basis.
That's the point of insurance, after all - to cover rare occurances, not unexected or avoidable occurances.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
A lot depends on factors that aren't mentioned here. The size of the company will dictate whether they know you well enough to trust you or must follow policy (most policies will shut off access immediately if you're fired and may or may not have wiggle room if you resign). On my last job, the company only had a few hundred employees. I was terminated (because my productivity had dwindled due to cancer treatements), but because of my reputation within the company my access (including remote logins) was left intact so that I could connect from home and use the internet to look for a job. The admin that usually handled the shutoffs said that was a first. All other terminated employees (or resignees) were shutdown while they were in the HR Manager's office.
I was also given a box and was allowed to go back to my desk and retrieve personal items without an escort and to say goodbye to a few associates in different departments. Neither had ever been allowed before.
In a larger company I would expect that things would have been done by the book, but your reputation goes a long way toward how you are treated even if you're being fired.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
What happened to me (and seems to be a growing trend) is that I was essentially "terminated" when I gave my resignation. They cut a check for the two weeks and I was out the door. They also said that I was also volunteering to use my stored up vacation during this two week period so they wouldn't have to pay me any extra. (I had one week still saved up.) They were able to do this because if I were to complain or contest the situation, it was strongly implied that any future inquiries about my employment would be negative. (Even though I always had stellar reviews from my manager and coworkers who also volunteered to be my references.)
Looking back, it was still the right choice to just not cause a rabble and just soldier on. A black mark in the IT industry is often a death sentence, so I kept quiet. Now I realize that every corporation is not this evil, but they are out there. Besides, the new job I landed is much nicer.
Next time instead of 2 weeks tell them you are leaving in 6 so that you get paied for 4 more weeks ....
Burn down the building on the following weekend.
Consider yourself lucky that they didn't have two SS (security guard types) guards, grab you and toss you out of the door
Clive DaSilva Email: clive.dasilva@gmail.com Ubuntu 18.10 Kernel 4.18
That said, if you really were out to sabotage your outgoing employer, I can think of few ways to more effectively do so than to quit summarily (permitting you to perform random acts of evil right up to the last minute, of course). In submitting your resignation, you afford your employer many key opportunities - to review your work, your workload, your position, etc. It's their loss if they don't choose to take advantage of that opportunity (and there may be good reasons why they can't).
Make sure you take care of all things you are concerned about BEFORE you resign.
:-)
Like, download all the pr0n off the corporate servers.
"No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
What is this job that no one likes?
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
Kind of partial to this on the PA myself. Did this once at a factory I worked at, where the boss really did have "a brand new flat-top haircut". Amazing what you will put up with to keep a roof over your head and food in the pantry, worked there exactly long enough to get a vacation, spent the vacation job hunting, new job really didn't pay better but didn't leave me as exhausted nor did I have to buy clothes all the time to replace those destroyed in that wood milling factory. As bad as the wood mill job was there was and is much worse jobs out there and a lot of people are locked into them, lack of training/skills, families to support, pre-existing medical conditions that may not be covered by next insurance company, etc etc. For those fortunate enough to be able to switch and improve their circumstances I salute you and suggest even though it is past Thanksgiving, you might should still sit and count your blessings. The linked song was immensely popular when it came out because it had very real meaning to millions of blue collar workers, so please take the time to read the words.
How to professionally resign? You did it.
Some tips on things to consider doing before handing in your resignation (if you're going to be leaving on good terms with the company):
1) make sure any code you've written for the company is well documented and easily maintained (I can document the hell out obfuscated code, but that doesn't mean it's easily maintained)
2) make sure that any projects you're on are documented well enough for someone to step in with minimal difficulty
3) make sure you understand company policy on work you create for the company
4) if there are things that you have created for the company that you wish to take with you, make sure there is no confidential or proprietary information in them. Prepare a 'packet' of the things you would like to take so that when you hand in your resignation you can have the packet reviewed to make sure there is nothing proprietary in there. This goes for code, email, documentation, etc.
When you hand in your resignation, make sure to be courteous. Don't disrespect your coworkers (even if they are the reason for you leaving). Review any materials you've created for confidentiality (in general, if it's things you've created to be able to do you job better, most companies won't object to you taking a copy. If it's programs that are part of the company's business, then chances it's proprietary and/or confidential and you shouldn't be taking a copy.)
Contrary to what other people have been saying, do not delete ANYTHING (remember, this is leaving on good terms). The company will take care of disabling your account, access, etc. The company most likely has a legal right to anything you've created on company time or equipment or for the company due to the terms of employment (in general this is outlined in company policies. if you aren't sure, make sure you speak with HR before you hand in your resignation.)
In general, if you are leaving on good terms (i.e. another company has offered you a better deal or there are family matters that require you to leave as opposed to leaving because of something related to the company you are leaving) you want to treat everyone with respect, but understand that when you hand in your resignation the company has EVERY right to say "Thank you. We appreciate everything you've done for the company. There is no need to come in to work between now and then. If we need you, we will call you. By the way, you can come in tomorrow to pick up your personal effects." That is a perfectly good, ethical, legal response as long as they pay you for the time between resignation and termination.
Disclaimer: The above only applies to leaving on good terms. Leaving on bad terms is an entirely different kettle of fish.
i'm sure it's been said, but you did just fine in your resignation. you offered the appropriate 2 weeks notice, and from what i can tell you were cordial and not sarcastic or hateful at all. i've had the same thing happen to me - the disabling of accounts, seizing of computer, etc, and it's not personal. as you already know, the employer is protecting his own ass. it's hard to judge who is going to get some last minute revenge and who is going to be a professional and part on good terms.
you don't really need to Ask Slashdot how you should resign professionally, since you've already done it. maybe this will serve as an example to all those "professionals" out there reading this site that don't know how to properly seperate themselves from an employer and not make enemies in the process.
Wipe your disks so as to avoid problems with the retention their data or their customer's data on the machine you used to use. This is a purely legal safeguard for everyone so that someone can't come back later, supoena that machine and then demand you explain why some customer's or employer's confidential information is still on the machine.
Not everything is about porn, you know.
You did what was right, and Professional. You gave your two weeks. They probably figured that you were leaving because of something you were unpleased with so you may cause their system damage. I am not sure how well you knew the CIO but if you didn't know him well at all then I wouldn't expect anything less because so many people have done stupid acts like quit and leave a virus, or wreck a system. You did what was right on your part and they did what was right on their part. I believe if you would have know the CIO that this wouldn't have happened but he can't take the chance.
It's just business. If you really want to be all fuzzy with them you wouldn't be leaving in the first place. Better to leave on entirely professional and legal terms. There is nothing to be served by trying to leave open the door for reemployment later on that could in any way be construed as conflict of interest. If your soon to be ex employer coldly decided 'as a matter of policy' that you were persona non grata then you should be mature enough to implement your own professional career safeguards in turn.
Gen up a few 4K superuser key pairs that only you have the private half of, keep them on a USB flash stick in a safe place at home.
Then, if you need to get something you forgot (like all that GPL'd code you thought you had a CD of) you go get it.
After you are completely sure you have everything you need, you delete the keys and all is well.
My employer has said a couple of times that if I leave they will have me revoke my own clearance, since I designed everything we've got on over 400 PCs, 50 servers, a three-site WAN, etc. As far as my boss and I are concerned, we trust each others' professionalism enough to work together, regardless of the circumstances of termination, in order to make everyone as secure and happy as possible.
They know there is no possible way to prevent me from getting in to their systems if I want to, I just know too much about every aspect of the infrastructure. They also know I can be trusted, or they wouldn't have allowed me to build everything in the first place.
I was in a similar situation. The company could not risk exposure. However, I thanked them for the 2 weeks and offered to support them in any way over the 2 weeks. They were quite happy and indeed a situation did come up that needed my support. When I complied, they even offered a small project, for which they paid seperately. (of course this was a small company, i wouldn't expect it in a larger firm) But, it worked out well.
I gave a months notice at the hardware startup I worked for. I loved the people, just didn't like the direction the Co. was going. It was about a 40 person operation.
This month was spent attempting to get things to finish points, documenting everything and explaining things to the coworkers who were going to take over the critical pieces of work.. My last day there, I had to drop my keys thru the mailslot on exiting, cause I was the last one out the building about 1030PM.
Somebody got a hideously exploded drive.... (we made 480V 20HP machine drives,) and everybody signed it and gave it to me.. it's still one of my treasured possetions... I feel so lucky I had an experience like this.. but they did get a substantial amount of work from me just because they treated me so well.
Stuff here is just confirming the fact I'd never want to work for a huge corporation.
Hello? Haven't you heard? Company loyalty died sometime in the 80's. Always, *always* think of yourself as an independent professional in a business relationship with a client, even if you are a long-term employee. My personal approach is that I hire my employer as much as they hire me. It makes it easier to think clearly about the interests involved in that relationship and avoid letting emotion get in the way. (It also makes job interviews much easier.) Companies (especially big ones) are practically obligated to act as they did in your case, for very good business reasons. No employer owes you anything; you don't owe them anything. You simply exchange value - work for money - under agreed-upon terms. So the next time you terminate your business relationship with a client (resign from a company), get your ducks in a row before you notify them. Meaning, make sure that you no longer have any need to access company resources, and you won't be surprised or upset if the security guard escorts you to the door immediately. *Then* give them a professional two weeks notice. Also, don't forget that your point of contact with the client - your boss - is a human with ambitions etc. in the context of a corporate career. Don't take any reaction personally - it's just business, even if the boss tends to forget that (or never knew it).
Depending on where you live and your reasons for ending your employment. A reasonably smart employer should honor your wishes and let you wrap up your work in a neat way since that will help the employer in the end.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
I have given my resignation before. I'm a Unix/Network systems engineer/admin.. etc. I left Northrup Grummen. They honored my resignation and I worked up until my last day. I got a my last check including a check for my vacation and floating holiday balance.
Somebody didn't trust you.
I left my corporate IT job back in September for a shorter commute and greater autonomy in a small company. When I gave my boss my notice (two weeks), he said "OK" and didn't speak to me again. Since I was responsible for managing the database that handled credit data for all of our customers I was surprised not to be shown the door on the day I gave notice. In fact, a smart company would have locked me out of the system immediately because of the sensitivity of the data I regularly worked with. Enjoy the downtime, and don't take the lockout personally. Remember that the Senior Talking Heads of any corporation have absolutely no idea what the Geeks are actually capable of, and the lockout is a result of their ignorance and fear. All of those outrageous project requests and timelines came from these folks!
I also put in the customary 2 weeks notice after I had received and accepted a solid offer from a much larger company. Like others who have replied, I was a systems/network administrator, and spent my last 2 weeks documenting everything I knew, inside and out. My former employer wanted me to stay as long as I could, and because I agreed to stay (my former employer was in rough shape financially, and I felt bad for them), that pushed my start date back with my new employer, and I missed a start date timeframe that would've made me eligible for this year's bonus plan (with the new employer).
When I started my new job, my former company was calling me daily (while I was sitting at my desk at my new job, nonetheless) for support issues (that I had clearly documented). I finally stopped checking my email at my former employer, and just let everything go (in hopes of them letting me go from their support calls). About a week or so later, someone (either inside or outside the company) hacked in and screwed with email and some other things. A former co-worker of mine called me out of the blue a few days later, turns out I was being blamed for the hacking, etc. even though I had nothing to do with it. So, it CAN work out in the employee's favor if access is turned off once they leave their job. That way, you won't have to worry about being a scapegoat because management or other miscrients want to have a CYA for everything that goes wrong.
...atleast in the realm of contracts. Information included in an employee handbook is considered binding (for both the company and yourself). This has been held true by the courts even when the employee has not read the handbook (or in the case referenced, had not read the specific policy in the handbook). For further reading, look up Pine River State Bank v. Mettile, 333 N.W.2d 622, 627-30 (Minn.1983).
While it certainly is standard practice, severence pay - even up to 2 weeks, is not required in most (perhaps all) "at will" states. I didn't give notice at my last job because of that fact. After the BS I had put up with (being hired and held off for 2 weeks after showing up only to find the job hadn't been approved, ...), I didn't trust the bastards any more than I could throw them. It just tickles me pink when corporations preach all about maintaining loyalty to the company. After what I've experienced personally and what I've seen big corps do to my fellow employees (especially old-timers whose pensions are getting large), I show corporations as much loyalty as they have for me. Hopefully in my new job, that won't have to be zero.
What is the professional thing to do?
Enjoy your free vacation! Think of it as a "paranoia tax" paid to you by your employer.
Well it varies depending on the company, usual notice is 2 weeks and a letter is typical. Another way to go about it is to discuss with your supervisor that you are planning to resign and give them a reason that hopefully tells them you are not bitter. Then submit the letter for the paper trail. Offer to make the transition of highering someone new, easier. Tell them you will check any documentation you have to see it is in order. Basically give them reasons to keep you in production so to speak. But also it may be company policy to give you the 2 weeks paid. Specially if they have others than can fill in until they higher a replacement. Like everyone else said, who cares, take the money and enjoy the time off. I would have love to be given the ability to leave when I resigned from my last job. But what corporate america needs to realize is that IT folks get bored easily. If we don't feel challenged or appreciated for the hours of work we "should be" doing then we look for bigger and better pastures. Average burnout rate for a systems/network admin is about 5 yrs. At which point, time to find something new. Enjoy!
Dewser - all around techy "In the immortal words of Socrates - 'I drank what?'"
You dont. You are not dealing with gentle people. They are vicious. What happened to you is typical. Not too long ago, a firm I was with, I saw the same thing happen to someone. Like a gentleman he gave 2 weeks notice. He was gone in 1 hour. I wasnt even able to wish him well. One thing the the firm didnt like, was my comment that the intelligence level of the place went down 10% after he left. Years ago when I worked for a another firm, I gave 2 weeks notice and they told me I couldn't legally quit. Guess they needed me. I dont think it is that way any more anywhere. More recently when I left this large firm that was a screww up, I was going to leave in a couple of days. That was just enough for the CEO to hear about it and want to talk to me. Needless to say, the reasons for why I wanted to leave became very worried. Now do you understand why you were gone like skidmarks?
I've always included on my resignation letter a list of tasks I need to complete before leaving. That tells them that you haven't lost your work ethic, you're just moving, and it shows them that they still need you.
I resigned from a job last year, and my boss honored my two week notice because he could see he still needed me to finish up my projects. This is a guy with a reputation for showing people the door.
Of course it's also important to communicate a positive reason that you are leaving. For instance, I left my job in California because I couldn't afford a house in that state. Yeah I had some beefs, but I didn't mention them. I made them clearly understand I was not leaving out of dislike for the job. It's to your advantage to do this even if you actually do dislike your job.
It turns out that the company I'm with now has entered a partnership with my old company and I find myself working with my old boss as a peer. Leaving on a good note has allowed us to get along pretty well. You never know how the leaf is going to turn so be careful what you say.
For me, mod points have arrived in batches or swarms. I don't get any for many months, then start getting them once a week for several weeks. After that another drought. I don't understand their system of granting them, and simply use them honestly when I get them. I get notice that about 1 out of 20 of my moderations are disagreed with at M2 level.
As I see it, you have two options:
1: M2 metamoderate every day that your're eligable, and moderate everything UNFAIR. This will take so many other moderators out of eligability that eventually you'll rise to the top of the list again. Besides, doesn't Slashdot promise that metamoderators are more likely to get Mod points?
2: Resort to M3 moderation, otherwise known as MODERATE PARENT UP/DOWN/FUNNY/INSIGHTFUL... posts.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Many companies have a policy of not allowing 'lame-duck' workers to have system-level access. Usually they'll let you access your own email and non-critical applications, but in your case, since you were a system admin, it sounds like they shut down everything. I don't think this necessarily would be affected by anything you say in your resignation letter. It's a policy put into place to protect the company's assets, and in order for that policy to be effective, it needs to apply to all workers that are leaving.
Skip Franklin
It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. -- despair.com
This has got to be the single-best one sentence analysis of this issue in the whole discussion.
I am not a crackpot.
First off you did the right thing by giving two weeks notice.
:)
Most companies have a policy whereby if you are in a position to compromise the security of the company, have access to confidential information, or if you are going to a competitor they release you immeditatly (I was sooooo tempted to say I was going to a competitor the at the last company I was at).
Still others may have been burned before and don't want to risk it. One of my professors told me of a job he had in the 70's where his predecessor went into the room where they stored all the punchcard programs (remember this is the 70's) and removed random cards. Since it was all undocumented assembly code it took them eight months to get everything straightened out. Needless to say when my professor gave notice the company took his badge and keys and let him go that day (with the full two weeks pay).
So its not an insult to you for doing the right thing. They are merely covering their butts. Keep giving the two weeks notice and if they let you go early its free vacation.
At a company I worked at about 15 years ago, they dismissed (let go/fired/etc) one of the employees who also happened to handle much of the computing environment.
The president and vice president (and I believe at least one corporate lawyer) asked him into the conference room where they told him that he was fired and not allowed to return to his office. He said "may I make a phone call?". They said sure. He picked up the phone, dialed a number and said "Implement Plan B" and hung up the phone.
The pres and vice pres and lawyer went totally ape-shit. The place went into instant lockdown and we were pretty much unable to use the corporate network for about a week while they went through everything, changed all codes... musta cost a small fortune in both time and money.
A couple of years later I ran into the guy who was fired and I said "wow, do you realize what happened after you said those words? BTW, what exactly was plan B?" He said "I called my wife and said "implement plan b" but she had no idea what that meant, I was just joking".
Wonderful payback to some really stupid employers (they totally deserved it). Totally made my day.
FYI ... I had to beg to be let go as part of a RIF at my last company. Had access til my last day, but was not in an admin. position of any sort. I had planned to give them one week of notice ... because the RIF was happening a week before my two-year anniversary (with a 2-year relocation agreement on my head) and severance was better if they RIF'd me. But they caught wind (somewhat purposefully) that I had lined something else up and was just biding my time. Still HR was very cryptic about it all.
Now, I'm trying to figure out how much time to give once I do find something else where I am. Although, I'm at a .edu and they're too strapped to be kicking me off early. Either way ...
Here's what I've learned thus farGood Times, these are!! hrrrmmmmmm
Que Deus te de em dobro o que me desejas
[May God give you double that which you wish for me]
You have no clue about Information Security, obviously. You were professional and they were professional. If they allowed you to continue to access systems then they are not performing 'due diligence' and any problems that you cause could get the company in hot water. If they didn't do what they did I would be worried. It seems like they have a fair policy and you received your $$$. Don't be a fool!
There was alot of typos in this as I was in a hurry. The big mistake was in the title though (I ran out of room and did not proofread my correction).
DO NOT take it as an insult.
My Bad.
Give 3 weeks notice next time?
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Why give two weeks notice when you resign? The company doesn't give you two weeks notice before you're fired or laid off.
Hey what if I'm resigning because I broke something and don't want to tell anyone?
Get your Unix fortune now!
I left a large company that makes bread, but worked there right up until the end of my notice period. I've also left a computer forensics firm, and was escorted out straight away with my severence pay assured. I think banking, finance and law-related firms are far more likely to walk you out then and there, as the information they hold is percieved to be more "sensitive".
"Life is pain Highness. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something"
Westly, The Princess Bride
Rethink that - Duty?
You sent him/her to the box. Despite being paid for the time doing so, you removed the quo from the the quid-pro part. The job was never being your "answer man", toadie, or lackey, and so when you sent them away from the role, the job, the workplace, there can be no expectation at all. There is more to a job than pay - there is respect, a role, a position, an office: you took all that away but still want yours.
Moderated 5? Management skillz like this make me wretch.
Clearly they should have fired him two weeks before he resigned.
The CIO immediately thought I was going to do something terrible to the system, and destroy accounts, and any other activity that I have access to
My boss and co-workers generally feel the same way about me.
Never. I never rest when fighting evil and scumbag shills of evil like you.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
Having an IT employee frustrated on his/hers way out is a big fucking mistake. Some management figures tend not to realize that on time. They do at some point though. I never liked these huge MDF/LDF files...
now, if i had given 2 weeks in the middle of a 6-month project.......well, that seems like it would've been unprofessional.
Now, I'm not sure that I really agree with this. Really, if the company decided to cancel the project, do you think that they would have paid you for the duration of the 6 months, or would they have given you 2 weeks' of pay and sent you out the door?
I think what you did is fine. Except for 1 crappy job where I got fired, I have given two weeks notice even when I was working as a temp and could just leave. I figure it's the professional thing to do.. I'm surprised that a place would just lock you out immediately, but if they are paying your 2 weeks, what the hell.
I can't compare to how things might work elsewhere, having never held a job outside the United States, but I think the premise you describe as being implicit in my post is true and valid. At least it has been my experience in almost every tech job I've ever worked, and especially present on jobs whose focus was the production of a deliverable (especially software).
If you're on a team, or especially if you're in charge of the team, there are two kinds of people in the world: people who are On The Team, and everyone else who is Not On The Team. That's it. Sure, you probably have support personnel and people who help you out for various and sundry personal reasons, but they probably don't have a particularly vested interest in whether you succeed or not. The direct product of this is that people on the team have a 1:1 relationship (hopefully) with another group, People You Can Trust. If you're on the team and committed to the project, you get trusted with stuff, including passwords, access to confidential information, etc. When you're no longer on the team, you're no longer trusted, and therefore the stuff you could access gets immediately revoked. Or alternately, if you are for some reason perceived as being not fully committed to a project (within in the limits of it being your job, and not your entire existence), then you'll probably get the boot. Unless you have some very specialized skills that make you invaluable -- and in my experience this is very rare, much more rare than people with "special skills" think -- project managers are almost more interested in commitment and trustworthiness than they are with talent or skill.
This binary, black/white point of view is popular, IMO, because when you're up against a deadline and working like hell, nobody has time to figure out other people's myriad personal motivations and measure others' commitment in order to figure out what they should be given in terms of assignments and how to interpret their assessments of situations. And for what it's worth, I agree with them. I would rather work on a project where everyone is into their work and committed to success, but perhaps learning things as they go along, then work with a team of experts who couldn't give a shit what they're working on as long as they don't have to stay late and their paychecks don't bounce.
If that's not for you, that's fine and I wouldn't fault you for it, however I would urge you not to join an IT project in the U.S., because that's pretty much how things work.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
April 20th is the birthday of Hitler. It is also the anniversary of the Columbine High School Massacre. April 19th is the anniversary of the Waco Massacre and the McVeigh's Oklahoma City bombing.
"You could make the same argument for senior management but somehow when they f-up the company they get a nice severance package from the board. I guess a few mil is a nice reward for running a company into the ground."
f =archives&origin=archive
The guy who ran Conseco had to return the money.
http://www.cfo.com/article.cfm/5157338/c_5157587?
So I guess that shoots your "stereotype" down in flames.*
*You couldn't get liens straight, so why should you do any better at "what happens to managment"?
It's coming up to the holiday season, otherwise known as the Annual Christmas Layoff. You come in Friday morning, and there's a sign on the door: Mandatory All-Hands Meeting in the Cafeteria at 10AM. You go to the cube and try to log in and get something useful done before then. Everybody's account is locked out. They blocked all web access, so you can't even read Slashdot! Nothing to do except get some coffee and speculate on where the axe will fall this time.
After lunch, if you were lucky enough to dodge another 20% "strategic reorganization", you wait for the server to come back up. Sure enough, half the Sys Admins got whacked (mostly the rxperienced ones). Oh, and about today's build deadline--it isn't changing just because we made you sit around doing nothing all day. Stay here until it's done, while we go to Aspen to collect our performance bonuses at the management team-builder.
Merry Christmas from the Corporate Management Team!
You didn't say why you decided to resign. Did you tell your employer? If not, they probably just assumed the worst. If so, well, then I guess maybe it depends on the reason you gave.
I resigned from my last job, gave them ample notice, and ended up working a month beyond my planned departure date. Of course, I didn't really want to leave that job, but my wife had to relocate about 500 miles away for her job and I wanted to be with her more. So, I gave about 2 months notice, and offered to help find and train my replacement. Found the perfect guy, too, but the asshat VP wouldn't sign the req to hire him until about 2 weeks after I left (for the math impaired, that's 3.5 months after I gave notice, which coincidentally was about how long it took me to get fully up to speed when I started there.)
Anyway, without knowing exactly what you said it's impossible to say what you might have done to make them suspicious of you. Maybe it was nothing at all, and that's just SOP? I have to agree with all the people saying "enjoy your free 2 weeks pay." If they're shooting themselves in the foot, that's their choice, and no longer your problem.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Sir, I don't know who you are. You don't know who I am. Perhaps you should think of me as a wandering porcupine. Harmless until you attack. Like Tom, I do know the person I worked for, and he knows me. I don't need to puff up my chest and intimidate you, because I know that if you want to screw me, you're going to wonder where that dry, rusty corncob came from.
Always give to days notice .... "I am leaving to-day." ;)
i wonder if all those schemers and plotters (enron, the major accounting firms, the major insurance companies, GM, Ford, Delphi, etc etc etc) consider that there are probably a lot of things going on at the board / CEO level that are 'risky'?
youre basically saying managers have 'no choice' because they might to go jail for not kicking someone out on their ass right at resignation?
what country do you live in? Carly Firona got millions of dollars when she left after destroying HP. managers can bankrupt entire companies, turn ethics into a dirty word, steal millions of shareholder and taxpayer dollars, waste it on frivolous BS and their brother in laws contracting company, etc etc etc .
but no, its the IT guy who bothered to give notice instead of dropping out of sight one friday, thats the bad guy! we might get sued!
oh, and dont be insulted. i just read business week and the wall street journal
You did.
At least it is completely clear cut and you know where you stand.
I am currently having issues with my employer (I work in a small company with three full time employees including me). Over a week ago, I had an accident in the work van and the boss went absolutely mental with an unjustified severe verbal critique of my driving abilities. He fired me on the spot the next day with no investigation, no warning and no mention of making good on any monies he owed me.
Several days later I wrote to him requesting written confirmation of what was said when he dismissed me and his response was to send our office girl round to ask me if I was planning on taking the matter any further (ie legal action for unfair dismissal). She stated several things including that he would not be willing to let me drive any company vehicle as I was quite obviously speeding and driving wrecklessly. When I pointed out that the road I was on was national speed limit (60mph UK) and I was barely doing 40, all of a sudden things changed. Less than three hours later the boss realises his case for dismissing me due to 'gross misconduct' just went tits up and my case for unfair dismissal became rock solid.
My problem is that all these facts were there and available right from the get go but my boss showed no desire to learn anything other than his "gut feeling". So now he gives me a letter saying he wants me to come back as though 'nothing had happened' which I now believe to be insincere but his only option legally. Do I go back to a working environment where I am neither trusted nor wanted? (driving to and from clients is a major part of the job and my mini is neither insured nor suitable for hundreds of miles a week).
If I accept his terms and go back, all legal stance on my side vanishes. If I don't accept his terms and don't go back I don't know where I stand except I'm out of a job. How's that for a heafcuk?
Just remember that if the world didn't suck we'd all fall off.
This things are usually a bit awkward, but their swift, protectionist response is quite common.
The point of giving 2 weeks notice is to give the employer some opportunity to make an effective transition to the new situation, a workplace without the resignee working there.
How they use this opportunity is entirely up to their discretion. Many companies choose to eliminate unsupervised access immediately, and pay salary for the two weeks as a professional courtesy. In a right-to-work state - which many are - it is possible for the company to end paying the person immediately after showing them the door, unless there are other policies or contractual stipulations in place.
If the company needs to get information from you, they will ask. Typical practice, if system access is required, is to have the resignee work with the employee picking up the tasks; that employee would work on the system, sometimes with the resignee sitting beside them to explain things. At this point, though, the resignee has no system access, and the other employee has responsibility for the integrity of company systems and data at that point.
Of course, I have left places under both scenarios: all access removed, and with full access and expectations of my presence on the job up through the full two weeks. What you describe, where your presence is expected or allowed, but you have no system access, is no more or less awkward than the other possibilities - they are all a bit unpleasant. Remember, you have just disrupted a routine - usually not fun even when it is for the best for all parties - and caused the company an unplanned expense of adjustment, reassigning tasks, possibly recruiting a new hire, or maybe even reorganizing your area of the business.
The best thing you can do is to behave nicely, cheerfully, professionally. Accept the situation. Answer questions clearly and without resentment or reservation. If you can anticipate a list of items which require transition, write it up (even at home, if needed) and pass it on; management should ask for a list of things, but this does not always happen. Don't be upset or surprised if you and management do not have the same list of what is important to transfer.
Put on a positive spin, speak well of people, and encourage them. Be as helpful as possible. Go out of your way not to infect them with bad attitudes or wistful thoughts of moving on themselves. It is mostly execution style not technical details that matter at this point - provided the details are accurate, of course. A good exit often leads to future opportunities to consult, or to be hired somewhere else through a positive recommendation in the future. Remember, unless you or they have been one of the true nightmares, after some time each side will think of the other more fondly and forget many of the rough spots.
Cheers! bobinspainMost likely the company has a policy for all resignations and it was nothing personal.
If it were a small company, it would depend on your relationship with them. I left a small company with 2 weeks notice and continued to work. In fact I was paid for those 2 weeks plus the remaining 10 days of the month's salary.
I gave my notice three weeks ago to my contracting company. They in turn notified the person to whom I reported at the client. That person then accused me of being unprofessional for not telling him I was leaving and told me to immediately leave the building and consider that my last day. He did this by email and didn't come into the office, talk to me or apologize when he was told that I went through the proper channels by notifying my employer and having them notify him. As a result I lost a week's pay.
Darryl L. Pierce "What do you care what people think, Mr. Feynman?"
I worked for a dot-com, not one of those huge corporate giants. I had a good, friendly relationship with my former manager/CTO, my former CEO, and my former HR/CFO.
I went up and told them, look - I have received a job offer and it's a literal 10 minutes from my front door whereas this is 40 minutes and I'm spending $300 a month on gas and tolls combined. You haven't given me a raise in over a year. I want to let you know that I'm considering this position; it's for more money and it's closer to home.
They don't bother to counter-offer, they don't have the $, but I'm a somewhat important guy, a primary developer of 2 different major company systems. I had spent many off-hours working with the systems, from work and from home. They have developers who could take my processes over, so that's not a problem.
I gave them my resignation and told them I'd be leaving in 2 weeks. Two other employees who had done exactly that (a QA/Customer Service guy and a Graphics Designer) were just instantly let go. One of them did not even get his honored vacation days.
I calmly laid out my intentions for the next two weeks: I said, I'm going to take these two weeks and finish a code clean up and document everything I've ever done for you guys and all the currently undocumented processes (not to say that they didn't ALREADY have documents, I was just going to update them and consolidate them) so that whomever you replace me with can maintain/manage this stuff properly.
They were totally fine with that. In fact, the CTO asked me to pre-screen a couple of candidate for my position in the second week. One was an OK fit who later came in, but did not pass the face-to-face interview; the other was too junior and they passed on him.
The entire time, I had full access to the production environment and would have been able to screw with them at any time. The thing is, I had been with them for almost 2 years and they knew me to be a responsible and trustworthy employee who had locked up the place for the night more than once.
It was a very cordial departure and I received full pay for my vacation days. They've called me a couple times for questions and I was invited to show up for yesterday's holiday party, but I had other plans.
Suffice to say, I still keep in contact with those coworkers and I would suspect the following for your situation:
If you're in a HUGE CORPORATE ENVIRONMENT where you are just a tiny, insignificant cog (I'm one now!), and one department doesn't know what the other department is doing, don't expect that you can't be replaced.
If you're in a smaller company where your work matters, it really all depends on your relationship with the other coworkers and your overall responsibility.
OMG my basement would be full if I printed and stored all company correspondence I wrote.
Really, if the company decided to cancel the project, do you think that they would have paid you for the duration of the 6 months, or would they have given you 2 weeks' of pay and sent you out the door?
Probably not, since i was a full-time employee and frequently worked on projects that took months to complete and implement.
My point was that (to me) it's not professional to leave the company 'in the lurch' on a big project. it would seem to be more professional to say to them, "i'm planning on leaving, how long do you need me to train my replacement and bring everyone up to speed?" in a case like that 2 weeks is probably not sufficient.
When you recognize love in another and realize how precious it is, everything else seems so insignificant.
Giving two weeks notice is exactly the professional thing to do. You can't control how the company reacts. I've quit 4 or 5 programming jobs and have never been abruptly cut off, but I have seen it happen to others. Don't worry about it. You did right thing.
Get used to it, most companies terminate you the second someone reads the resignation letter, and generally give you two weeks severance, or maybe as much as 4(or VERY rarely) more pay(plus compensation for unused vacation time, don't forget that if you didn't use yours all up, and if they have a better 401k I'd leave the $ in the old companies plan and not roll it over... if you can...). Bottom line should be that you were resigning for whatever reason, and now you have a couple extra weeks to do something else with, which might actually even be better if you're going to start the new job(or whatever) immediately at the end of the two week period.
Out of all the companies that I have resigned from, only one wanted me to stay until the two weeks was up, and tried to cajole me into not leaving on my last day. (A case of too little, too late from them though.
Bottom line is that generally they like you to not be irreplaceable so that they can fire your but whenever they like/want to, especially if they can find someone(Indian/Chinese) that is cheaper, even if not quite so good as they can always throw more bodies at it and still make a savings in their twisted logic. (Of course, they really don't want you have the same freedom, and would MUCH prefer to have serfs in most cases.)
Give them 90 days notice.
As an employee you can keep detailed journals and logs of all the work you did. Some people keep backups - some are not allowed.
I always make sure that I prepare everything for my resignation - not necassarily for the remaining 2 weeks but to refer back to the experience I have gained to help my professional development.
Maybe you should spend that time documenting all the work you have done so you might be prepared fr your next position or other future positions.
The last 2 weeks is just a legal red-tape and you should expect employers to do this considering the research on hacking & malicious computer threats (i.e. MOST threats come from the inside, like disgruntled or untrained employees)
All the best