Interesting -- I had the same experience with my wife and Tribes.
I think Tribes is a very female friendly game. For one it's not as viscerally violent as the others (no blood and gibbage), and the locales aren't so film noir (airy outdoors).
Plus there's something about the true 3D play (with flying) that my wife just seems to handle better than me or any of our male friends. Her timing and control for ariel acrobatics are pretty amazing.
Perhaps it's because she's really an angel (awww... choke... gag...;)
I think most girls are turned off by FPS, though I'm not quite sure why. The most common reaction I see is trying to move their head rather than looking with the mouse.
I've seen this behavior, but I don't think it's a female trait. It's just anyone who hasn't played many 3D games. I know that me and my male friends did this in back in 94 when we first played Doom. And we thought it was funny. After a week or so it passed. Most women are just starting out, so they're still at that level.
I have a couple female friends (including my wife) who kick ass at FPS games. I was there when my wife first tried one, and she did the head moving thing. Now she kicks my ass and everyone else we know. Her head is stationary.
You're right though, about the turn-off -- but I don't think it's FPS, it's the attitude of the games. My wife doesn't like the serious goriness of UT or Quake. She prefers Tribes and Counterstrike, which have a bit lighter feel. She especially likes fooling around and being goofy in-game, which is easiest in Tribes (dance animations are included).
I blush to stereotype, but I think an FPS could crack more of the female market if it were made more light -- not so much focus on death and destruction, but more on playful competition.
...was regularly ranked in the top ten Tribes players in the world, according to the realtime stats at some site that tracks such things. She used to play 10+ hours/day 5+ days/week.
It was interesting to see the varied reactions of the guys. She didn't advertise that she was female, but if it came up the first reaction was usually disbelief and dismissal -- they assumed she was a guy lying about his gender. Then after adequate proof (using voice comm in game, for example) they'd be surprised, but accept the truth. Then they wanted to see pictures.
There were basically two reactions: anger and attraction. It was usually the younger guys who got angry -- for some reason they were pissed off that a girl could beat them. They'd get all bitchy at her and call her names, claim she was cheating and disappear. Maybe they'd be like that with anyone. Who knows?
Most of the older guys (heh -- meaning past puberty) ended up getting attracted to her. In fact a whole bunch of guys would flock around her online wherever she went... be it gaming, or IRC.
She went to TribesCon IV in Reno a couple years ago, and she was one of maybe three girls who came to play... out of 200+ total gamers. There were lots of girlfriends there, but they stayed off to the side.
Some of the guys became quite taken with her (it doesn't hurt that she's a hottie). Which got a little weird. Eventually she retired and got back into real life.
I hate child porn as much as humanly possible. But that doesn't make me hate cameras. Or freenet. It makes me hate child pornographers. They should be found and shot dead. If it is hard to find them, I don't blame the largeness and complexity of the physical world. Or freenet.
I don't have a solution to child porn, but I don't want restrictions on useful technology because of the sick actions of a few.
I don't use Freenet, and I don't currently have anything controversial to say. But I believe, that the principle is important. I signed up for a $5/mo recurring contribution.
That's nothing compared to what I spend on stupid crap that the monolithic media corporations have convinced me I need to be happy while they work to take away my freedoms.
And just preemptively: I don't think everything should be free. I don't download songs illegally. I am an creator/artist who has been paid for my creative/artistic work on occasion, and would like to make that my life, though I've yet to be able to do so. Still, I think the current lack of consumer rights is appalling.
I am glad to support this project that gives us the technilogical means to work around the crap that's become acceptable in our free country.
Office rumor has it that McNealy called my company to personally pitch a SUN hardware deal. We're small. We run 3 web servers and two DB's. But we got a little AP story a few weeks ago. We are groing pretty rapidly, but yeah, he's really looking for stuff.
I don't know if this letter really has a point, but SUN is on the ropes to be sure. And it will probably take such a bold and risky move to have any chance at all.
You're missing the point. Of course a computer isn't an investment. We all use computers as tools. I won't argue whether the PC or Mac is a better tool but here's my experience with pricing:
In 2001 I bought a G4 Powerbook 500 for $3500. At the same time my wife bought a Sony VAIO for $3200. Aside from the fact that it had no CD, the battery lasted about 1/4 the time, and it had a smaller, lower-res screen, we'll call them equal.
In 2003 I sold my G4 (with a cracked case from droppage) for $1025 on ebay. She sold her pristine VAIO for $400.
Of course, this is for laptops, and it could be argued that Sony's are overprice for PC's. But still, she "paid less" and I "got more" both in specs and resale value.
And all of this is a waste of time anyways -- as people rarely complain if you buy a more expensive car (with virtually no technical advangages) I can't see why people are so hung up on computer price, especially with the functional differences. Perhaps a matter of taste -- but what's wrong with paying more for something that fits your taste? It's all just a pissing contest and it's tiring.
Or so I say -- despite my adding fuel to the fire;)
I picked up the Tascam USS-122 and it works like a charm. It was only $200 and it has two audio inputs, outputs, MIDI in and out, and direct monitoring with headphones. The unit plus Garageband replaced a whole rack of old studio equiptment I had. And it sounds better to boot.
have you found your atheistic beliefs to provide you with the same joy & comfort that you received when you gave your whole heart at 17?
I don't think my atheism itself has provided me with any joy or comfort, because atheism itself isn't a belief.
But as an athiest, I have experienced joy, comfort, and wonder as I explore and learn about the working of the world around me, and people near and far. Some of it is beautiful, some of it sad, and it's all just so real. It can be overwhelming sometimes. Which can be good:)
Of course, this same exploration has led me to pain, fear, and apathy. But nothing that I couldn't eventually pull through using the same exploration process. It's a continual process, like any path I think.
So, yes, my belief system has carried me through some tough times. It's really just a belief in myself, I suppose. A belief that I am a good person and I'll always find a way to work things out. And perhaps a belief that no matter what it seems, just about everyone is similar way down inside.
Having watched many good Christians go through good and bad times, I don't think a relationship with the Christ is any better or worse at helping one to pull through. I can't speak for any other athiests as to how their personal beliefs carry them. Maybe I'm a rarity. I do have some friends who are in a similar boat, though, so I know I'm not the only one.
(did you receive that joy and comfort at 17 that I profess now?)
Yes, for a time. But looking at my life before, during, and after, I don't think that the lows were any less painful, the highs any higher, or the recovery any quicker. While I was Christian I would probably have thought so, but now I think it's my current beliefs that help me through. I think that's just how people cope with trauma.
And one thing worth mentioning is that my beliefs don't feel much like a choice to me. I really don't think I could believe in the biblical God (or in fact, any supreme being) by choice. It just doesn't make sense to me anymore. It doesn't fit the world that I see.
But since I don't have any more proof for my beliefs than anyone else, I have to respect others beliefs, as long as they don't show themselves to be particularly dangerous.
Hi there -- sorry I didn't answer your post sooner but I never saw it.
My question is, have you considered forgiving?
Yes, and my wife and I are in marriage counselling. I love her dearly and want to forgive her, but at the same time I am terribly afraid to commit myself to someone who was able to hurt me so badly. There are many layers to an affair, and I've learned a lot about what led her there. I forgive some of her choices and I have yet to forgive others.
have you considered the possibility that it is Jesus who can give you the strength to forgive?
Well, I was raised a Pentecostal Christian (my grandfather, in fact, founded our town's churgh). Until I was seventeen or so I just believed because I was raised that way. At that point I had a sort of revelation and I commited to becoming a true believer with a personal relationship with Christ. I gave my whole heart to that process. But for some reason after a year I found myself feeling it was all a sham. I read the bible, starting at the beginning, and I came to feel it was a book written by humans, not by a divine hand. So then I became agnostic. And after a few years of self exploration I became atheist.
I don't really like the term "athiest" because it doesn't indicate a belief, but rather a lack of one particular belief: the belief in a God. It would be like me labelling all Christians and Muslims "non-Buddhists". I am an athiest, but I have a strong value system, which at it's most basic is the golden rule. I admit I don't know where we came from or why, but I don't see any explanations that satisfy me. So I will continue to live as best I can and learn about myself and the world. I respect others' beliefs.
All that said, I don't think that a relationship with Jesus, even if I believed he was the son of God, would help me with this forgiveness. I have the power in me to choose forgiveness, but I've yet to exercise it because I don't know if I want to. I don't know if I am willing to take the risks involved.
Anywyas, hope that you're still reading and that I've answered your question. Good luck to you and your wife. Just remember as you go on, that if you still love each other and haven't had an affair, that you have lighting in a bottle. Don't let it slip away: either of you.
That's funny -- my wife and I actually had a tiny bit of swinging experience. No intercourse, but we fooled around with another couple, all four of us in the same room. This happened once before marriage and once after. And it really seemed okay because of the complete honesty. That may sound funny after my talk about "purity", but our love still felt pure. Hard to explain.
Anyways, I really thought at the time that our openness would somehow prevent the need or desire for an affair... but I guess not. As they say, affairs usually aren't about sex. Which is funny, since they always seem to involve lots of fucking. Sigh.
Instead of reading my silly posts, you ought to be locked in the arms of a 22 year old hunny who's asking if you'd like a three-way with her blonde roomate.;)
Just wanted to thank you for the input. I'm certainly facing some of the hardest decisions I've faced. And frankly your opinions draw the hardest line of anyone I've heard (except for Tom Leykis:). Most people tell me to try working it out... which I guess is what they have to say.
I agree there's a lot of possibilities out there. I don't really think my life is over or anything:) But jumping all the way back to my original post, it just sucks to have sacrificed so much for "purity" and then to have the whole thing pulled out from under you. Frankly if the purity had worked out for a lifetime (as it did for 10 years or so) I would still feel it's worth it. However I think the chance of pulling it off are far too slim to justify. So my advice to the young me would be: "aw, just live it up a little".
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. You're right: the average number I gave was inaccurate. There are a huge number of conflicing reports, and the averages for men and women don't match (which obviously makes no sense). Do a google search for "average sexual partners" for some interesting links on it.
My wife was in deep depression for the last few years, but she tried to hide it from me and wouldn't accept my help. I don't really know why, as I worked very hard to be open and understanding. Ah well. She seems to have some deeply seated personal issues. It sucks because I really do love her. When she's not lying and cheating, that is.
I'm in the SF area, and I guess I could probably start scoring regularly if I put out the effort. I'm in good shape and I know how to dress.
Sometimes I feel like true Science has been mostly supplanted by the popular opinion of know-it-alls. That may sound harsh, but the resistence to change often seen in the scientific community is surprising.
I imagine a true scientist would be thrilled if new discoveries replaced old theories. Isn't that the point of research, discussion, and exploration? Obviously there are many good scientists out there who agree, and work on the fringe like those discussed in the article. But the accepted "scientific establishment" really is closer to a religion these days than it is to science.
It's also a bit amusing that the article calls up the example of Ptolomy's epicircles... as if it is a rare black mark of error in scientific history. But error is the norm. Theories get replaced regularly. It would be surprising if our modern theories were _right_. I assume they are subtly wrong in some areas and greivously wrong in others.
I don't think extended internet use has any harmful effects. But I do think that it can be a symptom of depression and other serious problems.
It all depends in what's going on in the person's head. I know some people close to me who have used the internet as a way of avoiding their real life. It's so fun and quick and interactive and social... well... who needs real life, right?
There actually seems to be a little subculture of depressed people who get together online and thrill each other with attention and understanding. Which almost sounds like a good thing until you watch one of them spiral downward and suck the life out of everyone around them in the real world.
Someone close to me hit rock bottom this way. Luckily she is now recovering. She had to swear off many types of internet usage (gaming, IRC & IM). Which was sad because there can be some legitimate healthy fun in all those things. Now it's just email and purposeful browsing.
Her old online friends who were left behind are like a bunch of old drinking buddies trying to convince the recovering alcoholic to come back out and have some fun again. They email regularly about how much they miss her hanging out online with them... for 12 to 18 hours a day. Can't she just come back and play a little?
Just to be clear: I don't think _any_ part of Christian culture _accepts_ these things. Most people, regardless of religion, don't accept these things. I certainly don't. And neither does my cheating wife (who was also raised Christian and is from Asia, not the US, incidentally).
But "accepting" isn't required to 1) get depressed 2) get caught up in the moment 3) make a mistake 4) lie to yourself 5) lie to your partner 6) etc, etc, etc.
I just hope you and anyone else reading will understand this: infidelity is not about religion or your relationship with God. It's about the two of you, the pressures of life, and the temptation and intent of those around you. Stay vigilant, and don't depend on any belief system or moral code to protect you. Face it and work at it every day.
Great advice:) Actually what is so funny is that I started listening to Tom on and off a couple years ago. And the whole time I was like... "yeah right... but not my wife, not me." I had already been happily married for 10 years at this point.
Hardy har har.
Since I found out about the affairs I'm like "damn, this guy knows what he's talking about.".
It's weird -- listening is sometimes a healing experience and sometimes just painful. Why? Because just about everything he says is true and -- believe it or not -- I'm still with my wife at this point in time. We're in weekly counselling. Sometimes I feel that it's the right thing to do and sometimes I feel like I'm a complete sucker. Ugh. What a mess.
1) great quote from Chacer. I've put it in my scrapbook:)
2) I've got to get to New York. Did you know that the national average is 4 partners? If 40 is low for New York... well... now I know why everyone loves to live there.
3) Disease. Can you believe that in two of the three affairs they used no protection? What the fuck?
Thanks for the input. If I ever get around to boning 35-40 women I think I'd feel a good bit better about what happened:)
About infidelity: I would say that it is actually the dishonesty and not the sex that hurt me the most. There was a fourth "affair" in which she never got physical, but which hurts me nearly as much as the other three because she would go to see him secretly.
It's funny because I had told her that if she ever was curious (knowing that we were virgins when we got together) that we should talk about it and maybe we could work something out. So it wasn't even like I was in denial of temptation or there was no other option for her. But she chose to cheat anyways.
Some days I just think people are naturally out to get what they can regardless of the expense to others -- even those they love. And in that context, what is love?
Don't think of it as a game. You've been wronged, but that doesn't mean you then have to go and hurt others because you've been hurt.
Oh, just one other thought: I don't think I'm wanting to hurt anyone else. If I was to become more casual about sex (I haven't done so yet) it would be in a completely honest fashion. I would never lie to anyone about my commitment. I would be honest about my feelings and intentions. I would not cheat.
When I say "game" I simply mean that maybe it's best as something fun that two people do together. As opposed to making it some ultimate, pure, idolized event. Because when you think of it as something magic (as I did) you are very likely to get your dreams shattered at some point.
Like it or not, infidelity is "the norm". And I'm thinking the less special sex is (i.e. the more partners you've had) the less that hurts. But that's really just a guess.
And my Christian mother also had an affair. So did the two youth pastors at my church growing up: one male, one female, two marriages (with children) destroyed. And yes, they were _real_ Christians... great knowledge of the Bible, love and fear of God, personal relationship with Christ, and anything else you care.
But believe me: affairs and marriage failures are _not_ a religious issue. There's nothing at all wrong with the Christian moral code, or the relationship with Christ, but it is _not_ going to do anything to protect you from temptation or give you strength to resist it. Really. I'm sorry to say it but there's just no evidence to indicate it does.
All the best to you and her. I hope you manage to beat the odds.
My father was agnostic, and my mother a Christian. She has, all my life, to this very day, told me in detail about her personal relationship with Christ. The church I grew up in emphasized the personal relationship. In any case, she was the one who had an affair.
Anyways, I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the Christian values themselves, but being a Christian, no matter how personal that is to you, is not a defense against anything. It's more like a promise to work harder to maintain the higher standard.
You will be tempted, as will your partner. Again, I wish you luck.
Oh, by the way, I went through a "purging" of porn around my 17th year, around the same time that I tried building my most personal relationship with Christ. But after a few years I realized that it wasn't really working so I started learning about myself instead.
I view porn these days. And I treated my wife with nothing but love and respect. And we had a great sex life. She still agrees with these statements. She didn't look at porn. But she ended up having the affairs.
It's a lot more complicated than anyone cares to admit.
And how long have you been married? My wife and I were each other's first and only. And I thought it was really something special. For the 12 years that it lasted, that is. Then I found out that she had three affairs behind my back over the course of the last year.
Now I really wish I had been a little more free in my earlier years. Nobody likes to get cheated on, but I think it's worse when you're an innocent fool like I was. Now I'm a balding middle aged guy with few prospects and the only love I've ever had demoted me to fourth place (at best).
Anyways -- everyone's different. But don't be surprised if it happens to you. 70% of all marriages include infidelity, I've learned. And that's just the ones who admit it on a survey.
I used to think that sex was a meaningful act of love. That's still the only way I've experienced it. But I think that it's healthier and more realistic if you think of it as a game.
Slashdot Mirror
BTW -- she just got her braces off, but we don't have any pictures since then. Now her hotness is complete ;)
Interesting -- I had the same experience with my wife and Tribes.
;)
I think Tribes is a very female friendly game. For one it's not as viscerally violent as the others (no blood and gibbage), and the locales aren't so film noir (airy outdoors).
Plus there's something about the true 3D play (with flying) that my wife just seems to handle better than me or any of our male friends. Her timing and control for ariel acrobatics are pretty amazing.
Perhaps it's because she's really an angel (awww... choke... gag...
Cheers.
I think most girls are turned off by FPS, though I'm not quite sure why. The most common reaction I see is trying to move their head rather than looking with the mouse.
I've seen this behavior, but I don't think it's a female trait. It's just anyone who hasn't played many 3D games. I know that me and my male friends did this in back in 94 when we first played Doom. And we thought it was funny. After a week or so it passed. Most women are just starting out, so they're still at that level.
I have a couple female friends (including my wife) who kick ass at FPS games. I was there when my wife first tried one, and she did the head moving thing. Now she kicks my ass and everyone else we know. Her head is stationary.
You're right though, about the turn-off -- but I don't think it's FPS, it's the attitude of the games. My wife doesn't like the serious goriness of UT or Quake. She prefers Tribes and Counterstrike, which have a bit lighter feel. She especially likes fooling around and being goofy in-game, which is easiest in Tribes (dance animations are included).
I blush to stereotype, but I think an FPS could crack more of the female market if it were made more light -- not so much focus on death and destruction, but more on playful competition.
Cheers
...was regularly ranked in the top ten Tribes players in the world, according to the realtime stats at some site that tracks such things. She used to play 10+ hours/day 5+ days/week.
It was interesting to see the varied reactions of the guys. She didn't advertise that she was female, but if it came up the first reaction was usually disbelief and dismissal -- they assumed she was a guy lying about his gender. Then after adequate proof (using voice comm in game, for example) they'd be surprised, but accept the truth. Then they wanted to see pictures.
There were basically two reactions: anger and attraction. It was usually the younger guys who got angry -- for some reason they were pissed off that a girl could beat them. They'd get all bitchy at her and call her names, claim she was cheating and disappear. Maybe they'd be like that with anyone. Who knows?
Most of the older guys (heh -- meaning past puberty) ended up getting attracted to her. In fact a whole bunch of guys would flock around her online wherever she went... be it gaming, or IRC.
She went to TribesCon IV in Reno a couple years ago, and she was one of maybe three girls who came to play... out of 200+ total gamers. There were lots of girlfriends there, but they stayed off to the side.
Some of the guys became quite taken with her (it doesn't hurt that she's a hottie). Which got a little weird. Eventually she retired and got back into real life.
Cheers.
Don't shoot the messenger. Really.
I hate child porn as much as humanly possible. But that doesn't make me hate cameras. Or freenet. It makes me hate child pornographers. They should be found and shot dead. If it is hard to find them, I don't blame the largeness and complexity of the physical world. Or freenet.
I don't have a solution to child porn, but I don't want restrictions on useful technology because of the sick actions of a few.
Cheers.
I don't use Freenet, and I don't currently have anything controversial to say. But I believe, that the principle is important. I signed up for a $5/mo recurring contribution.
That's nothing compared to what I spend on stupid crap that the monolithic media corporations have convinced me I need to be happy while they work to take away my freedoms.
And just preemptively: I don't think everything should be free. I don't download songs illegally. I am an creator/artist who has been paid for my creative/artistic work on occasion, and would like to make that my life, though I've yet to be able to do so. Still, I think the current lack of consumer rights is appalling.
I am glad to support this project that gives us the technilogical means to work around the crap that's become acceptable in our free country.
Cheers.
Office rumor has it that McNealy called my company to personally pitch a SUN hardware deal. We're small. We run 3 web servers and two DB's. But we got a little AP story a few weeks ago. We are groing pretty rapidly, but yeah, he's really looking for stuff.
I don't know if this letter really has a point, but SUN is on the ropes to be sure. And it will probably take such a bold and risky move to have any chance at all.
You're missing the point. Of course a computer isn't an investment. We all use computers as tools. I won't argue whether the PC or Mac is a better tool but here's my experience with pricing:
;)
In 2001 I bought a G4 Powerbook 500 for $3500. At the same time my wife bought a Sony VAIO for $3200. Aside from the fact that it had no CD, the battery lasted about 1/4 the time, and it had a smaller, lower-res screen, we'll call them equal.
In 2003 I sold my G4 (with a cracked case from droppage) for $1025 on ebay. She sold her pristine VAIO for $400.
Of course, this is for laptops, and it could be argued that Sony's are overprice for PC's. But still, she "paid less" and I "got more" both in specs and resale value.
And all of this is a waste of time anyways -- as people rarely complain if you buy a more expensive car (with virtually no technical advangages) I can't see why people are so hung up on computer price, especially with the functional differences. Perhaps a matter of taste -- but what's wrong with paying more for something that fits your taste? It's all just a pissing contest and it's tiring.
Or so I say -- despite my adding fuel to the fire
Cheers.
Whoops -- only one "S" :) If you want a demo of the sound quality, here are a couple songs I recently recorded:
Talk To You
Why We Are
Pardon my lousy singing -- but it shows just how cheaply you can get hi-fi these days.
Cheers.
I picked up the Tascam USS-122 and it works like a charm. It was only $200 and it has two audio inputs, outputs, MIDI in and out, and direct monitoring with headphones. The unit plus Garageband replaced a whole rack of old studio equiptment I had. And it sounds better to boot.
Cheers.
No worries -- I enjoy the discussion :)
:)
:)
have you found your atheistic beliefs to provide you with the same joy & comfort that you received when you gave your whole heart at 17?
I don't think my atheism itself has provided me with any joy or comfort, because atheism itself isn't a belief.
But as an athiest, I have experienced joy, comfort, and wonder as I explore and learn about the working of the world around me, and people near and far. Some of it is beautiful, some of it sad, and it's all just so real. It can be overwhelming sometimes. Which can be good
Of course, this same exploration has led me to pain, fear, and apathy. But nothing that I couldn't eventually pull through using the same exploration process. It's a continual process, like any path I think.
So, yes, my belief system has carried me through some tough times. It's really just a belief in myself, I suppose. A belief that I am a good person and I'll always find a way to work things out. And perhaps a belief that no matter what it seems, just about everyone is similar way down inside.
Having watched many good Christians go through good and bad times, I don't think a relationship with the Christ is any better or worse at helping one to pull through. I can't speak for any other athiests as to how their personal beliefs carry them. Maybe I'm a rarity. I do have some friends who are in a similar boat, though, so I know I'm not the only one.
(did you receive that joy and comfort at 17 that I profess now?)
Yes, for a time. But looking at my life before, during, and after, I don't think that the lows were any less painful, the highs any higher, or the recovery any quicker. While I was Christian I would probably have thought so, but now I think it's my current beliefs that help me through. I think that's just how people cope with trauma.
And one thing worth mentioning is that my beliefs don't feel much like a choice to me. I really don't think I could believe in the biblical God (or in fact, any supreme being) by choice. It just doesn't make sense to me anymore. It doesn't fit the world that I see.
But since I don't have any more proof for my beliefs than anyone else, I have to respect others beliefs, as long as they don't show themselves to be particularly dangerous.
It's a complex world
Cheers.
Hi there -- sorry I didn't answer your post sooner but I never saw it.
My question is, have you considered forgiving?
Yes, and my wife and I are in marriage counselling. I love her dearly and want to forgive her, but at the same time I am terribly afraid to commit myself to someone who was able to hurt me so badly. There are many layers to an affair, and I've learned a lot about what led her there. I forgive some of her choices and I have yet to forgive others.
have you considered the possibility that it is Jesus who can give you the strength to forgive?
Well, I was raised a Pentecostal Christian (my grandfather, in fact, founded our town's churgh). Until I was seventeen or so I just believed because I was raised that way. At that point I had a sort of revelation and I commited to becoming a true believer with a personal relationship with Christ. I gave my whole heart to that process. But for some reason after a year I found myself feeling it was all a sham. I read the bible, starting at the beginning, and I came to feel it was a book written by humans, not by a divine hand. So then I became agnostic. And after a few years of self exploration I became atheist.
I don't really like the term "athiest" because it doesn't indicate a belief, but rather a lack of one particular belief: the belief in a God. It would be like me labelling all Christians and Muslims "non-Buddhists". I am an athiest, but I have a strong value system, which at it's most basic is the golden rule. I admit I don't know where we came from or why, but I don't see any explanations that satisfy me. So I will continue to live as best I can and learn about myself and the world. I respect others' beliefs.
All that said, I don't think that a relationship with Jesus, even if I believed he was the son of God, would help me with this forgiveness. I have the power in me to choose forgiveness, but I've yet to exercise it because I don't know if I want to. I don't know if I am willing to take the risks involved.
Anywyas, hope that you're still reading and that I've answered your question. Good luck to you and your wife. Just remember as you go on, that if you still love each other and haven't had an affair, that you have lighting in a bottle. Don't let it slip away: either of you.
Cheers.
Hope you don't mind if I respond again :)
;)
:)
they're called 'swingers'
That's funny -- my wife and I actually had a tiny bit of swinging experience. No intercourse, but we fooled around with another couple, all four of us in the same room. This happened once before marriage and once after. And it really seemed okay because of the complete honesty. That may sound funny after my talk about "purity", but our love still felt pure. Hard to explain.
Anyways, I really thought at the time that our openness would somehow prevent the need or desire for an affair... but I guess not. As they say, affairs usually aren't about sex. Which is funny, since they always seem to involve lots of fucking. Sigh.
Instead of reading my silly posts, you ought to be locked in the arms of a 22 year old hunny who's asking if you'd like a three-way with her blonde roomate.
All in good time, my friend. All in good time
Peace.
Just wanted to thank you for the input. I'm certainly facing some of the hardest decisions I've faced. And frankly your opinions draw the hardest line of anyone I've heard (except for Tom Leykis :). Most people tell me to try working it out... which I guess is what they have to say.
:) But jumping all the way back to my original post, it just sucks to have sacrificed so much for "purity" and then to have the whole thing pulled out from under you. Frankly if the purity had worked out for a lifetime (as it did for 10 years or so) I would still feel it's worth it. However I think the chance of pulling it off are far too slim to justify. So my advice to the young me would be: "aw, just live it up a little".
I agree there's a lot of possibilities out there. I don't really think my life is over or anything
Thanks again for your thoughts.
Cheers.
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. You're right: the average number I gave was inaccurate. There are a huge number of conflicing reports, and the averages for men and women don't match (which obviously makes no sense). Do a google search for "average sexual partners" for some interesting links on it.
:)
My wife was in deep depression for the last few years, but she tried to hide it from me and wouldn't accept my help. I don't really know why, as I worked very hard to be open and understanding. Ah well. She seems to have some deeply seated personal issues. It sucks because I really do love her. When she's not lying and cheating, that is.
I'm in the SF area, and I guess I could probably start scoring regularly if I put out the effort. I'm in good shape and I know how to dress.
Again, thanks for all the input
Cheers.
Sometimes I feel like true Science has been mostly supplanted by the popular opinion of know-it-alls. That may sound harsh, but the resistence to change often seen in the scientific community is surprising.
:)
I imagine a true scientist would be thrilled if new discoveries replaced old theories. Isn't that the point of research, discussion, and exploration? Obviously there are many good scientists out there who agree, and work on the fringe like those discussed in the article. But the accepted "scientific establishment" really is closer to a religion these days than it is to science.
It's also a bit amusing that the article calls up the example of Ptolomy's epicircles... as if it is a rare black mark of error in scientific history. But error is the norm. Theories get replaced regularly. It would be surprising if our modern theories were _right_. I assume they are subtly wrong in some areas and greivously wrong in others.
That's what makes all this so fun
Cheers.
I don't think extended internet use has any harmful effects. But I do think that it can be a symptom of depression and other serious problems.
It all depends in what's going on in the person's head. I know some people close to me who have used the internet as a way of avoiding their real life. It's so fun and quick and interactive and social... well... who needs real life, right?
There actually seems to be a little subculture of depressed people who get together online and thrill each other with attention and understanding. Which almost sounds like a good thing until you watch one of them spiral downward and suck the life out of everyone around them in the real world.
Someone close to me hit rock bottom this way. Luckily she is now recovering. She had to swear off many types of internet usage (gaming, IRC & IM). Which was sad because there can be some legitimate healthy fun in all those things. Now it's just email and purposeful browsing.
Her old online friends who were left behind are like a bunch of old drinking buddies trying to convince the recovering alcoholic to come back out and have some fun again. They email regularly about how much they miss her hanging out online with them... for 12 to 18 hours a day. Can't she just come back and play a little?
Anyways, thought I'd throw in my $0.02.
Cheers.
Just to be clear: I don't think _any_ part of Christian culture _accepts_ these things. Most people, regardless of religion, don't accept these things. I certainly don't. And neither does my cheating wife (who was also raised Christian and is from Asia, not the US, incidentally).
But "accepting" isn't required to 1) get depressed 2) get caught up in the moment 3) make a mistake 4) lie to yourself 5) lie to your partner 6) etc, etc, etc.
I just hope you and anyone else reading will understand this: infidelity is not about religion or your relationship with God. It's about the two of you, the pressures of life, and the temptation and intent of those around you. Stay vigilant, and don't depend on any belief system or moral code to protect you. Face it and work at it every day.
Cheers.
Great advice :) Actually what is so funny is that I started listening to Tom on and off a couple years ago. And the whole time I was like... "yeah right... but not my wife, not me." I had already been happily married for 10 years at this point.
Hardy har har.
Since I found out about the affairs I'm like "damn, this guy knows what he's talking about.".
It's weird -- listening is sometimes a healing experience and sometimes just painful. Why? Because just about everything he says is true and -- believe it or not -- I'm still with my wife at this point in time. We're in weekly counselling. Sometimes I feel that it's the right thing to do and sometimes I feel like I'm a complete sucker. Ugh. What a mess.
Cheers.
Couple more thoughts:
:)
1) great quote from Chacer. I've put it in my scrapbook
2) I've got to get to New York. Did you know that the national average is 4 partners? If 40 is low for New York... well... now I know why everyone loves to live there.
3) Disease. Can you believe that in two of the three affairs they used no protection? What the fuck?
Cheers.
Thanks for the input. If I ever get around to boning 35-40 women I think I'd feel a good bit better about what happened :)
About infidelity: I would say that it is actually the dishonesty and not the sex that hurt me the most. There was a fourth "affair" in which she never got physical, but which hurts me nearly as much as the other three because she would go to see him secretly.
It's funny because I had told her that if she ever was curious (knowing that we were virgins when we got together) that we should talk about it and maybe we could work something out. So it wasn't even like I was in denial of temptation or there was no other option for her. But she chose to cheat anyways.
Some days I just think people are naturally out to get what they can regardless of the expense to others -- even those they love. And in that context, what is love?
Cheers.
Don't think of it as a game. You've been wronged, but that doesn't mean you then have to go and hurt others because you've been hurt.
Oh, just one other thought: I don't think I'm wanting to hurt anyone else. If I was to become more casual about sex (I haven't done so yet) it would be in a completely honest fashion. I would never lie to anyone about my commitment. I would be honest about my feelings and intentions. I would not cheat.
When I say "game" I simply mean that maybe it's best as something fun that two people do together. As opposed to making it some ultimate, pure, idolized event. Because when you think of it as something magic (as I did) you are very likely to get your dreams shattered at some point.
Like it or not, infidelity is "the norm". And I'm thinking the less special sex is (i.e. the more partners you've had) the less that hurts. But that's really just a guess.
Cheers.
I appreciate your kind words. And I would say I'd have agreed with you for part of my life. But the fact is that Christians have a higher divorce rate than non-Christains
And my Christian mother also had an affair. So did the two youth pastors at my church growing up: one male, one female, two marriages (with children) destroyed. And yes, they were _real_ Christians... great knowledge of the Bible, love and fear of God, personal relationship with Christ, and anything else you care.
But believe me: affairs and marriage failures are _not_ a religious issue. There's nothing at all wrong with the Christian moral code, or the relationship with Christ, but it is _not_ going to do anything to protect you from temptation or give you strength to resist it. Really. I'm sorry to say it but there's just no evidence to indicate it does.
All the best to you and her. I hope you manage to beat the odds.
I wish you luck in your life, and I hate to break this to you: but a personal relationship with Christ isn't going to do anything to prevent an affair. In fact Christians are more likely to divorce than non-Christians.
My father was agnostic, and my mother a Christian. She has, all my life, to this very day, told me in detail about her personal relationship with Christ. The church I grew up in emphasized the personal relationship. In any case, she was the one who had an affair.
Anyways, I am not saying that there is anything wrong with the Christian values themselves, but being a Christian, no matter how personal that is to you, is not a defense against anything. It's more like a promise to work harder to maintain the higher standard.
You will be tempted, as will your partner. Again, I wish you luck.
Oh, by the way, I went through a "purging" of porn around my 17th year, around the same time that I tried building my most personal relationship with Christ. But after a few years I realized that it wasn't really working so I started learning about myself instead.
I view porn these days. And I treated my wife with nothing but love and respect. And we had a great sex life. She still agrees with these statements. She didn't look at porn. But she ended up having the affairs.
It's a lot more complicated than anyone cares to admit.
Cheers.
And how long have you been married? My wife and I were each other's first and only. And I thought it was really something special. For the 12 years that it lasted, that is. Then I found out that she had three affairs behind my back over the course of the last year.
Now I really wish I had been a little more free in my earlier years. Nobody likes to get cheated on, but I think it's worse when you're an innocent fool like I was. Now I'm a balding middle aged guy with few prospects and the only love I've ever had demoted me to fourth place (at best).
Anyways -- everyone's different. But don't be surprised if it happens to you. 70% of all marriages include infidelity, I've learned. And that's just the ones who admit it on a survey.
I used to think that sex was a meaningful act of love. That's still the only way I've experienced it. But I think that it's healthier and more realistic if you think of it as a game.
Cheers.