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Girls in the Gaming World
dkleinsc writes "The BBC is running an article about life as a female gaming squad. There's some discussion about the welcome or lack thereof women get in the gaming community, and arguments over whether it's a good idea to have separate women's matches."
Swell.. now that this the existence of female gamers is common knowledge, the most common messages in Counter-Strike will be "A/S/L?!" and "w4nna g0 c4mp1ng 0n 7h47 r00f709?!!!"
Trolling is a art,
let me know when they go wild
Ctrl-Alt-Del Comic about a girl gamer
Are "gamers" that insecure about their masculinity/sexuality/gaming prowess/dick size/pick something else that they're afraid of playing against girls?
My girlfriend loves Mario Kart: Double Dash and it makes me happy it's one of the hobbies we can share.
If playing against girls makes you uncomfortable, don't play games at all!
and arguments over whether it's a good idea to have separate women's matches."
Why? This isn't real life, where men have more muscle than women do (I'm not being sexist, just take an intro biology course), and are therefore superior to women in terms of pure strength, speed, etc. Online, everybody's equal, the characters can be tuned to roughly equivalent stats, the only thing that matters is reflexes to move the mouse and hit the keyboard.
Sithu Thein's comment is the most interesting: "Why do they bother having women only events for internet gaming? Within sport, I can see the reasoning for sexual segregation - women simply are not as big, fast or strong as men. Thus there needs to be a separate contest for men and women in order to keep a level playing field. Last time I checked the x and y chromosomes were not linked to reflexes, hand - eye coordination, and visual acuity. Men are not going to be able to use any of these physical attributes to gain an advantage. As their advantages are thrown out of the window, so too goes the reasoning for segregated gaming. As for women feeling that men make them feel unwelcome in the world of CounterStrike - history is just full of instances where the dominant group in a field has made it perfectly clear what they think of any 'New Kids on the Block'. You just have to try that little bit harder. Sithu Thein, UK" I totally agree with him. I thought on-line gaming should finally make the genders compete at the same level, but I'm really sad to see that women still are set to "female compos". I understand that women actually may want this, since they still might meet some harassment and such (i can only guess what a 15year old guy say when he hear the enemy is a woman), but I still hoped compos with big prizes should have teams from both genders.
Does anyone else see this as an attempt to make an issue out of a non-issue? Games are marketed towards guys because guys make up the vast majority of the gaming market. Why don't they target the elderly with hiphop music? Becuase its more cost effective to target the younger crowd. Girls gaming? Great... But no one should complain about the fact that way more guys game then girls. Thats the girl's own preogatives.
The imbalance between men and women was clear to see, with almost 50 male teams taking part, compared with just seven female squads. And as in the world of sport, there were separate competitions for each gender.
Separate competitions? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
Boys' and girls' real-world sports are separated early on because of physical attributes. Physically, girls have different abilities from boys. And there are other physical attributes that cause both genders to become... distracted.
But online? Who knows -- who cares -- about your real-world attributes? For crying out loud, that's what makes gaming great for us geeks -- we don't have to be muscular, or fit, or even easily mobile! I'd probably lose 10-to-1 against Stephen Hawking at BZFlag.
So in a world where physical ability and differences are irrelevant, what justification could there possibly be for a gender-segregated gaming tournament?
Perhaps the organizers have a cynical ulterior motive? If I were a top-level girl geek, I'd turn down an invitation to such a demeaning event -- so all they'd get would be the second-rate girl teams. And then they can say "but look, they're clearly not in the same league."
Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
My co-worker used to play online using a feminine name. If you'd ever seen my co-worker you'd realize how funny this was. Think Richard Stallman meets John Goodman... Anyway, he swore that he did better with a female name because people were less likely to kill him.
I heard that Slashdot moderators also go kindly on female posters.
Sarah_the_geek_grrl
else miss Dear Mynx?
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
... arguments over whether it's a good idea to have separate women's matches.
Definitely not. Women have the potential to be as good as men at FPS gaming, and that potential won't be developed if they're consigned to the usual sexist ghetto.
Our 4-year-old daughter can already frag me occasionally in Quake, and I've been playing since '96....
I've spent the last year trying to get my fiancee interested in games... this last week, she started showing signs of being hooked on Roller Coaster Tycoon. I guess it goes: Mid-range PC: $800 RollerCoaster Tycoon Deluxe: $20 Watching my SO build a coaster that makes all the riders sick: Priceless!
Windows isn't the answer... it's the question. NO is the answer!
Oh come on! I think it is silly to have separate leagues for men and women in real-world sports, where it could be argued (not by me) that the physical differences between the genders would give one or the other an unfair advantage. In a virtual environment, even that would be voided. Why separate them?
Ceci n'est pas une sig.
:wq!
I've always thought typical female disdain for pixel-blasting violence to be a most endearing quality. I, for one, am against this slippery slope towards androgyny.
I am a girl in the gamming world and I think having seperate matches for woman is rather stupid. It is a game, it is ment to be fun, and if some girls suck gamming then they can suck it up, practice, and get better.
"Most interesting how often you humans seem to obtain that which you do not want" -Spock
Wow. I never knew they would get computers in a kitchen.
My wife got started on computers games playing the original tribes. It started out with me showing her the basics and helping her get started. I'd have her switch to my team so I could show her tactics, etc. Soon, she started playing a lot on her own.
Fast-forward to a few weeks later, and I would lose to her in duels 90 percent of the time. She would hit top scores on servers routinely, and I started switching to her team any time we played together so I wouldn't always be on the losing team.
The funny thing was, no one believed it was really a woman playing when she'd kick their ass.
-i
Lets see... BMX XXX, DOA:Beach Volleyball, 'natural physics' on the latest tomb raider.
It comes down to developers either making a cool game, or a buncha horny techies that use sex to sell to adolescent teenage boys (or both). Those 'horny techies' are juvenilizing the gaming world so that women don't want to be a part of it.
Oh, and to tack on my opinion. I think 'gaming for money' as an occupation is rediculous, and I don't see why companies sponser it (no need to argue this point, its my opinion and I've heard most of the arguements).
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Where have I heard that one before?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
It's not that they can't hack it, it's that they don't usually care to spend 8+ hours a day playing a video game that's nothing but twitch movements over and over.
Probably something about wanting to have some degree of a social life, eh? Not that we'd know anything about that here...
I atteneded an event called LanSlide, 60 person lan run by girls. I have to say it was a much better lan then some of the similar sized ones I've been too. And the organizers are more then just your avarage girls so theres no "A/S/L" shit and on top of that, Hell, there fun to play with.
actually, it is a well-documented fact that while on average men are superior in the areas of simple strength, and aggressive competitive behavior comes more easily to men than women, women have significantly faster reaction time, better accuracy, and the ability to track more targets at one time. this was discovered specifically relating to women being fighter pilots, but i'd bet it's valid for twitch games too. what holds most women back is that they lack confidence and are not aggressive enough. that and they are scared that people will think they are a "bitch" if they act aggressive. it's sad that society beats that sort of thing into them... i'll tell ya this, my fiance hands me my ass at tekken...
sometimes, i wonder if i'm the only conservative on teh intarweb. ah well, back to mah hogs and warmongerin'....
Hey, the female Danish CS clan is called "do me"! Neat!
Obviously the girls are only guys pretending to be girls. Not that I would know...
What is so terrible about pointing out the apparent, natural and omnipresent differences about males and females?
(ok, here I go throwing my karma into the fire)
Men excel at physical pursuits. It is not only because our hormones allow greater muscle mass -- there are other forces at work here and science has not yet pinned them down. But a quick look at fighter pilots today, for example, shows that even in a field where physical strength is not essential, men are far more suited to the task than women.
Sure, there are lady fighter pilots, women who can exert the concentration and coordination necessary for Uncle Sam to trust them with $100M toys. Just as there are women who can beat men at Quake III. All I'm saying is that statistics confirm that there are not many of them.
Is that so bad?
Some sports separate out men and women because physical differences make it hard for them to compete. Obvious examples that come to mind are contact sports like football and basketball, or even non-contacts like tennis (mentioned in one of the article comments) where physicality still plays a strong role. It's the same reasoning that makes sports like boxing have weight classes (a gender-neutral issue): to produce interesting matchups that let the competitors focus on how well they compare with others with a similar physical starting point.
Having said that, it doesn't strike me that there are significant differences in physiology that would prevent co-ed competitions from being fair, any more than you would expect one gender or another to have an advantage in competitions of bridge or snooker. The fact that they still compete in separate brackets more likely has more to do with advertising dollars (sponsors probably figure that the female market for Counterstrike is pretty small) or inertia (hey, let's do our tournaments like every other sports competition!) than any argument based on merit.
1. Serious Gamers
Guys don't like playing them because they're smarter, better, faster, and sometimes you fall in love...
2. "WHEEE CUTE!"
Usually they watch anime and/or create bad erotic fanart about doe-eyed male anime characters. They don't play any game that doesn't involve a cute catgirl or bunnygirl. See Final Fantasy XI or Ragnarok Online.
3. Your Mom Playing Solitaire
You know she's playing it right now. Remember that 1.5ghz Athlon system you built for her so she can send digital photos to grandma and make her own mix CD's? Yea, it's a $900 solitaire deck shuffler.
That this would even be an issue is testament to how little we've really achieved in gender equality.
... er, whatever)
:)
Why do we have to relegate everything to the sexes ?
I'm a liberal !
Let women go head to head with men ! (hmmm, there's something about that statement that
So long as I don't have a female boss, I'm happy !
I'm mean really guys, lets get realistic here
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
Why is it that when the few girls get into the gaming spotlight they focus on a groups with names like "DoMe"?
[quote]
"But it is two steps up and one step down as we are segregating males and females. It's saying that the girls aren't as good as the males."
[/quote]
Why? There can be both single gender and mixed competitions right?
Besides, in many fields which emulate some kind of war-like tactics, we men seem to be genetically at the advantage (on average, ofcourse). This is so in many sports as well as games like chess, etc.
If this advantage does not extend to CS, the single gender games will die from natural causes anyway.
A bigger problem is enforcing single gender games over the internet, imho.
This was clearly a joke and a funny one at that, although I'd add a "heterosexual with occasional lesbian tendencies" requirement in there as well.
Maybe these girls can't 'hack' it because they don't spend as much time as you do playing the game? I'm sure if a girl was interested enough to play the game for that many hours that she'd be pretty good. I've played against some ladies that were pretty decent. Just because it's popular among the boys doesn't mean a girl can't 'hack' it.
I think the idea of segregating girls in online game matches is a retarded idea.
suteki!
And the lead tester there was female, heavily into games and extremely competent. With the exception of one dickhead, I don't anyone was surprised by the idea that women would enjoy games as much as a man. IMO the idea that women shouldn't play games is partly a result of typical geek stereotypes-we don't mind seeing fat men with poor dress sense, pocket protectors and bad hygeine, but God forbid a woman should look like that
* It's not Ion Storm, mm'kay
with a name like
The DoMe team in Las Vegas
who wouldn't want more female gamers?
This article is kinda cool. I've tried for ages to get my wife to play video games with me :)
;)
:)
She got really bored after about 45 seconds of Starcraft, I don't think Warcraft 3 will fly. She totally won't do the first person shooter thing. I get in trouble when playing Unreal Tournament.
Maybe I'll have to get a console (xbox, gamecube, whatever) to attempt enticing her. Anyone have any ideas for games that I might try to get my wife hooked on gaming?
java guy, tech blog...
I know a grand total of 1 ( ONE ) female gamer. And she looks like she has been hit in the face by a vat of acid at 300km/h, has about the same weight as as the Eurasian tectonic plate, is as charming as Margaret Thatcher on a Sunday morning, about as reliable and trustworthy as an unnamed operating system which does NOT control 5% of the global market... ...but hell, it was Friday night, and you needed a date.
<br><br>
Beep beep.
It's not so bad, but I don't think it makes much of a difference in online games, do you?
suteki!
Don't be jealous of Mr. Grub. Maybe you're just cranky from not having your afternoon nap.
They show pictures of a hot female gaming team named "DoMe" and they don't even provide phone numbers! Life is sooooo not fair!
i love the way, when the media reports on males in gaming, they find the geekiest ones they can. but when they report on females, they have close ups of the two best looking ones.
I saw a headline that went Gxxx xx xxx Gxxxxx Wxxd and immediately thought it was an article about Girls Gone Wild...
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
I had also been under the impression that women have better reflexes. My gf can take me on evenly at Soul Calibur despite the fact that I have logged in a lot more hours playing it, and while she dislikes FPS games (preferring strategy, she can be vicious) once she developed the right reflexes I am sure she could kick my ass their too.
Never trust a physicist further than his DeBroglie wavelength.
...and they want to bring it back in? I play some of these games and not once in my mind has the gender of my teammate or opponents has ever entered my mind. In fact it would be a distraction. Thinking that someone has an advantage in a game because they are male or female is like trying to figure out if someone has an advantage if they are right or left handed. If someone wins or loses they do so because they are an accomplished or failed player. Gender has very little to do with it.
The one place where competition can be leveled down to fundemental non-physical attributes, a place where women can actually compete on equal footing as guys, they want to bring back gender divisions? I just don't get it.
If she's so bad, get another girlfriend.
I, of course, always go to the Nude Babe Gamers webcam site... I don't subscribe, I just take the free tour over and over againe.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
"can't see you! RAAAH! fire away"
VS.
"see that pretty girl there? i wish i could
take her out on a date... what i'm dead again?"
I think it's all good and well. I like games. I like girls. Let's all play. But it is not exactly groundbreaking, is it? Girls have been playing games, in good numbers, since Nintendo first came out.
Part of the joy of online gaming is that your opponents can be guys or girls and you can still have a fun game. If you know the girls you're playing against, so much the better.
I mean, usually the need to separate two groups engaging in a common activity arises due to some kind of friction between the two for whatever reason.
Here, I don't see what the reason could be.
Insecurity among the guys? maybe, but why spoil the fun of the game because of a personality trait?
Embarassment? for what? getting beat by a female player? Catch up with the times already!
Sorry for putting it like this, but it has to be said - an online game is meant to be fun. So if the number of female players is increasing, I say that's a really good thing and probably the only place I'd say where it would make sense to make it girls only would be a game that's like an MMORPG version of Barbie's Dreamhouse.
Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
I think most girls are turned off by FPS, though I'm not quite sure why. The most common reaction I see is trying to move their head rather than looking with the mouse.
My girlfriend however, really likes Warcraft 3, so much so, that when she came back from South America having studied abroad for a month, it was the second thing she wanted to do.
She really enjoys the social aspect of the game, and although she's never the best player there, she's also never the worst (she only plays at LAN parties since her laptop has an 8 meg video card).
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
but ze men don't! ;)
I'll probably get modded down, because no one of either gender every listens to me, but.....
Since many major online games (UT, Quake, etc) offer granularity of servers, I imagine there's probably alredy "girls only" servers and other private interest group servers just the same (password protected, et al).
It seems natural. We already have television networks (several) specifically for genders. Chat rooms for certain interests.
Now, with all that said, I can't say I mind competing with/losing to a girl. I don't understand the need for specific major competitions specifically for females. In fact, I'd imagine that 'being a male' as a requirement for a competition would probably result in legal action.
-m.
maybe people consistently fall into logical fallacy because they don't understand the seperation between improbability and impossibility
I often get the feeling that people doing the boys vs girls thing when it comes to competitive events lose sight of why its that way in the first place.
The reason a lot of physical sports are segregated is not even so much a difference of strength issue, but a more psychological one, in that girls are less likely to join a traditionally all-boys (now unisex) sport such as lets say football because of the fact that their peers are all competitive males, which can make one feel insecure, or the 'weakest link'. So, they create all-girls football teams so girls will be encouraged to join the team since they are playing with their female peers and so are on 'equal' ground. No need to worry about being mocked by a buncha assholic boys, just from bitchy women (its always easier to take critism from the same sex).
However, by segregating gamers into sexes in a faceless game, they are only actually promoting the idea of female inferiority in competive events. Treating girl gamers as a special commodity cheapens them, and makes me lose respect for them as gamers. If anything else is considered except the skill of the player, you've already lost the point of the game, and need to try again; whether its a he or a she is irrelevant. The sooner female gamers are not treated as special people who need to be segregated, the sooner everyone can get on playing w/o regard for sex like we're supposed to, and really get down to what matters: having fun with fellow gamers.
"What can a thoughtful man hope for mankind on Earth, given the experience of the past million years? Nothing." -Bokonon
Notice what the BBC have done with their photos. They've clearly picked the two most photogenic members for quotes, because if you look at the others way down at the bottom picture, those other girls are what you'd expect the stereotypical girl gamer to look like, rather than two pseudo-hotties.
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You get your ass handed to you by a girl while gaming.
"Uh....well, I'm a girl TOO!...yeah..."
*sobs*
Disclaimer: This may or may not have actually happened.
Putting aside all the biological stuff, I think that rather than saying "Girls suck at games", just because they lack some capabilities (or simply they don't have them properly "trained"), one have to understand seriously "why". And besides the biological differences (genitals, hormones, brain, pH, etc), there are also some social facts. The simple example on children: girls tend to play with dolls and boys with toy soldiers; since little, girls are taught that the meaning of playing with dolls is neccessary, that it will be useful when they will be mothers (well, I think that that's the subliminar message that lies behind), a lot of the sense of responsability is put into the things that little girls do when they play. With boys, the only thing that matters is to have fun and to prove to be the best of all. Now, take a couple, boy and girl, take these simple ideas, make them grow (let's see what happen to them in their 15-16s), and see the result. If the boy, by chance get a good way with video games (now it does happen a lot), will have a lot of advantage compared with the girl that, most probably, won't have the least interest in video games, at most she would use the computer to have a little fun chatting with his friends or surfing the net. My conclusion is that most girls simply aren't interesed in video games and, worst, some of them (including my girlfriend) simply think that ones like me that like video games are losing their time and are simple a bunch of ummature, lazy and hopeless bums. Well, of course this was taken from the point of view of the society where I'm living.
And how many of these "girl gamers" are male Slashdotters hoping to pick up a date? Something smells fishy, and not in a good way.
My fiancee and I have played just about ever genre out there togther. She hands me my butt in FPSs (I used to be better, but she's more accurate now), I whip her in RTS and we have a blast in MMOGs togther.
I once asked her why she choses gender neutral names when the game offers only male character models, or choses male models 90% of the time when offered a choice.
It's all about attitude. Most young male gamers are sexist rude pigs towards women. Most of the remaining are more interested in harassing her than playing once they find out she's a 'chick'. They don't care about her aptitude (she's one of the highest characters in our current MMOG ; in FPSs she's always in the top 5% of the game at the moment, etc) they want to know about 'her boobz' and such.
Sha said it best once before "If I could strip their anonymonity away when acting like that I'd always play a female. Most guys act like assholes because they're anonymous on the internet so they feel they can get away with it."
And she's right. I'm ashamed at my fellow man (pun intended) when I see how they react. The first time in history gender is transparent we still act like male dogs in heat around a member of the opposite sex.
Female players who go out of their way to 'stand out' in my opinion are only one step above the male sexist pigs. I've seen the chatbars when she joined an all-girl clan once. I think both of us were equally disgusted at the attention whoring that went on.
Personally I'm looking forward to the point where this all blows over. It seems once every few months we hear about these 'rare' female gamers out there. There's more than you think folks, they're just playing under male names so they get treated like everybody else.
My clan has two female players out of roughly 40 total players. We play combat-oriented games. They play in the leagues alongside the rest of us. Their skill is in step with the amount of time they spend playing, just like every other player in our clan. We don't treat them any differently, and they don't demand to be treated differently. If someone sees a "problem" with the fact that females do not like to play these types of games, why alienate the brave few by segregating them in a separate (and likely very small) league.
Fred
"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
I'd love to have more female opponents in fighting games. For some reason, a girl who can jump-in-HK standing+HP forward+LP into a quarter-circle-forward, half-circle-to-back+HP MAX SDM ending with a forward-down-downforward+LKx2 (one in air) is damned sexy.
flamebait? do you people enjoy moderating up things that are blatantly incorrect? here is some flamebait.. grab a spoon, and eat the shit out of my ass
So when and where can i arrange a quickie ...
session of gaming Ofcourse with these girls
But in non-physical matches? Always wondered why there are no female F1 drivers. Anyone know if women drivers are even allowed?
Computer game matches are new and so we should have none of this old sexist crap. Jiggling a joystick a twiddling the mouse are skills were build of body don't matter. In online games you don't even know who you are playing against. Unless you got one of those people who think quake is an irc channel. Then you know it is a 12 yr old boy.
However I am an old person myself and I can understand why some women might be in favor. Personal I would be a in favor of being able to filter game servers on mental age of players.
The fact is that there are an awful lot of kids out there who think that on the net they can behave as complete assholes. Since I have a somewhat cute nick I get the old A/S/L routine as well. Since I tend to answer "30+/about to/right behind you" they usually shut up but I hate to think what would happen so anyone stupid enough to admit they are female.
The best online game sessions I have had I had no idea about the other players. Not their age or their location or their sex.
If we start with seperated matches then we have admitted that we are still a sexist society. I can understand why women might want to play apart from the boys. Just hope they allow old guys who just want to game.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Since there is no way to mod this "Duh", I had to respond.
OF COURSE! Have you ever played an online game? There are always those who are (or pretend to be) loud-mouthed, homophobic, racist, misogynist, immature dick-heads. They usually are the ones who cheat and play like tools. They either really are that ignorant, or they do it just to cause a stir and piss people off. Being female would only garner a different type of insult from these morons. They are what make online gaming so annoying. But it is so much fun and gratifying to own them. :-)
Now I know that not everyone is like this, but the ones who aren't don't care who they are playing against. Most of the time you don't know anyway, you just know people by their screen names and your past experiences with them. For all I know, some of them are women.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
It was Animal Crossing for the 'cube that got my wife hooked on videogames.
She puts about 20 minutes a day in on it. How many fish can you catch?
"Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
and arguments over whether it's a good idea to have separate women's matches
I assume these are arguments over the relative merits of hot oil vs jello.
personally i think it's hilarious. maybe i just missed the joke 4 years ago?
I hate to bring this up, but there is some reason that it is advantageous for the "girl gamers" to have their own, seperate competitions.
I remember attending the "all female tournament" for quake 1, and other than the top two or three players, I wouldn't say any of the other girls had any business being in any tournaments. In theory, there is nothing seperating men from women in skill in these games. In practice, it doesn't work that way. The girls, at least so far, are never the top players. Having seperate events for the women gives them a huge advantage in terms of exposure and, well, being in news articles or potentially winning money.
The reasons for the disparity in skill seem pretty simple. While there is nothing specific keeping any individual girl from being at the top of the heap (that I can think of), the fact that there are umpteen (we'll say 99) times more men playing than women means statistically likely one per 100 of the top players will be a girl, and one per 100 of the top teams will be all girls. Here, we have 7 out of 57 teams. Even if the ratio is not 99:1, I doubt it is anywhere near 7:1. The women are just pulling talent from a smaller pool.
So, GGW now stands for Girls in Gaming World and not Girls Gone Wild anymore?
Free XBox, PS2
Don't be so harsh on the moderators. They believe that the blowjob fairy is going to visit them in the night because they spent mod points on a pro women post.
My wife is an avid gamer, and has handed my butt to me on the proverbial platter several times in UT and UT2003 and now she's mastered (God help us all) the Raptor in the UT2004 demo. I've always been the proud monkey at LAN parties when she starts screaming "How'd you like that one, MotherF***er?" at all my guy friends. The family that plays together, stays together.
End of Line.
or else they will be constantly kicking the asses of us guys
Technoli
...to put the females in a seperate competition? What a dumbass, sexist thing to do.
Even appart from the fact that in video games, chess, bridge or any other sport/game which doesn't rely on physical prowess the difference between male and female doesn't come into play; it's just a dumb thing to do.
I for one would love to compete (or rather: be in the same room...I don't think I'm at their level of play) with Louise and the other girls.
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
What exacally is wrong with girls gaming? I'm a female. I love video games... and I play well. Why should I have to play against all girls because some little 15 y/o boy is afraid I will beat him? Any male who thinks we should be seperated needs to grow up. It won't hurt your ego that bad to loose to a girl.
-ABG
statistics can also confirm that you are a dumbass. But are you really? probably not.
What are you going to say when your daughter wants to join the air force? "No, sorry dear but you probably won't make it since men have a better chance at having the neccesary physical and psychological attributes. Your time would be better suited to tailoring my pants. Go help your mom now."
If men have historically been the only ones to be fighter pilots, of course there will be some time before you see the same amount of women as men. Does the U.S. armed forces even allow women as fighter piots yet? i know a girl from childhood in the army who is a helicopter pilot, but for transport. Are women allowed in "combat" position?
chrissake, the same with CS curriculums. Just because there might only be 1 girl to every 5 guys, does that mean statistics show girls don't have what it takes to understand a computer system? of course not.
Do you know Teens?
men-teens try to show thei are the "stronger" and "better". Girls not. And men-teens do the same with videogames, and this why Girls dont want to play most videogames, except..
tetris (and that similar crap)
sims (i guess..)
buble booble
-Woof woof woof!
Who cares if you play against a female.. I for one would invite ALL of those female in that article over for a LAN party. Having a pretty cool chick can brighten a guys life.
This isn't a contest of who's stronger, it's a contest of wits. If you take a girl and a guy who like gaming and have done it before, and have them play the same amount of time, their skills will advance at approximately the same pace. The reason for fewer girl gamers is that most don't enjoy it. The girls who do enjoy it and play regularly are good. It's not that hard to figure out.
Rumor has it... that Catholic School Girls Rule
Sure, there are lady fighter pilots, women who can exert the concentration and coordination necessary for Uncle Sam to trust them with $100M toys...All I'm saying is that statistics confirm that there are not many of them.
Actually, women (on average; we all know women AND men who are exceptions) tend to excel at just the kind of skills fighter pilots (and kick-ass gamers) need. Good reflexes, eye/hand coordination, etc. But fighter plane cockpits are crammed with equipment and most of it is designed with a MALE pilot in mind, i.e. 5'9" or taller. The best reflexes in the world aren't going to help you if you can't reach the controls.
Or even this one
I'm sorry, the number you have dialed is an imaginary number. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and dial again.
I was playing an online game ( I think it was Battlezone by Activision) a few years ago and my handle was gender neutral. Someone asked if I was male / female. I was taken back by that question as why would it matter? I said female to see if it mattered. Boy did it. I had players taking damage by jumping between me and an opponent, players nearly killing off someone and then leaving the prey for me to finish off to up my score, and even offering tips! Normal protocol is to be mean, rude, and blast everything that moves and even some that don't.
Its one world but not everyone experiences it the same way.
...(well it's not like anyone round here can take the piss for being geeky)...
...and we have a 'girl' (mid-20s) and she can hold her own, so I don't see why she shouldn't play (and we're not a crap clan).
"On the internet, knowbody knows you're a dog." If I can't tell the gender of the people I'm playing against, what difference does it make? Sure, people that self-identify as female get treated different in role playing games, but half the people are misidentifying themselves anyway. In FPS games, gender doesn't seem to make any difference -- you frag your enemies and cover your friends. If they really obeyed the laws of physic, smaller players would be harder to shoot, but I don't know of any games that actually do this. Maybe it's different face to face, but I've played at gaming centers against people in the same room and still didn't know which of them was in the game with me. (By the way, it was the first time I'd ever played against humans and I got my ass handed to me on a platter.)
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
Just google the usenet groups for "female fine motor skills" and you will see lots of discussion on the topic, including relevant places such as rec.guns and rec.games...
I think coed games are just fine. I like to play fps against real people and I don't care who they are.
As far as fairness, I'd tend to think skill, connection speed and location relative to the server are more important that physical differences between M/F.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Let them compete on an equal footing initially. If it really turns out that there is such a clear deliniation in ability, then you have a great case for a separate league. If not, then we've just eliminated a lot of unnecessary organizational overhead.
.
Seems fairly straigtforward.
A goal is a dream with a deadline
At least, the women who would compete in women's-only competitions want it.
There's no one keeping women OUT of regular competitions. But since the vast majority of FPS-game players are male, the vast majority of ueber-good FPS game players are also male, and the best male players are *SIGNIFICANTLY* better than the best female players.
It's the same anytime you have two groups, one of which is significantly larger than the other. The larger group will have 10 top-tier players, and maybe 100 2nd tier players, while the smaller group will have 1 top-tier player and 10 2nd teir players. Get one group (the males) to play against another group (the females) and the smaller group (in this case the females) will get creamed almost every single time.
While I'm sure it's possible for women to be successful FPS-gamers on an individual basis, if they insist on segregating themselves on all-female teams instead of getting on teams with other gamers who are better (but also male), women and the female teams they are on will need a separate division from male teams as the best male teams will regularly annihilate the best female teams.
It's a numbers/social thing, not a gender thing.
paintball
We had a clan (T2) with over 70 players. We had ONE girl among them, but she was our start capper (flag grabber, CTF). She was well respected and not just by the members of our own clan. I've seen a few girls in various games since and they play just as good (or poorly) as their male counterparts.
Quack, quack.
Hear hear. I could be beaten by blind,pre-pubescent paraplegics with bad hearing all the live-long day and I'd still enjoy the experience. But it's ruined when some whiny brat from Jerkwater, USA calls me a "cheting haker" because I got a head-shot.Once.
To think that only women are subject to abuse is either naievity or ego.
I've actually been very suprised recently by finding out how outright hostile women can be towards games / gamers. A friend of mine was staying over with his girlfriend and she stopped him from playing on the console with us. She even threatened to go and stay in a hotel if he started playing. I was gobsmacked. She softened up a bit in the end when I taught her the buttons on one game and she managed to beat my mate on quite a few occasions.
I suppose I'm quite lucky on that front. My missus plays games more than I do (More spare time) and recently I've noticed that she's managing to kick my ass on certain games. I dont know if it's a gender thing but she seems much more able (Patience might come into it) to learn and pull off the combos in fighting games. I don't even attempt to play Soul Calibur 2 or DOA against her anymore!
I wonder how many other people have experienced such extreme hostility towards playing games from their significant others? I know that my brother gets grief every time he puts a game on and as such very rarely gets a chance to play games anymore.
People that believe in their opinions don't post AC.
...was regularly ranked in the top ten Tribes players in the world, according to the realtime stats at some site that tracks such things. She used to play 10+ hours/day 5+ days/week.
It was interesting to see the varied reactions of the guys. She didn't advertise that she was female, but if it came up the first reaction was usually disbelief and dismissal -- they assumed she was a guy lying about his gender. Then after adequate proof (using voice comm in game, for example) they'd be surprised, but accept the truth. Then they wanted to see pictures.
There were basically two reactions: anger and attraction. It was usually the younger guys who got angry -- for some reason they were pissed off that a girl could beat them. They'd get all bitchy at her and call her names, claim she was cheating and disappear. Maybe they'd be like that with anyone. Who knows?
Most of the older guys (heh -- meaning past puberty) ended up getting attracted to her. In fact a whole bunch of guys would flock around her online wherever she went... be it gaming, or IRC.
She went to TribesCon IV in Reno a couple years ago, and she was one of maybe three girls who came to play... out of 200+ total gamers. There were lots of girlfriends there, but they stayed off to the side.
Some of the guys became quite taken with her (it doesn't hurt that she's a hottie). Which got a little weird. Eventually she retired and got back into real life.
Cheers.
When you saw the first picture, your first question was 'Wonder how well she does', or 'Does she frequent my server', right? There was never a thought about non-stick cooking spray and gravity boots, correct?
Come on, why pick on the women for having sexual names, I kind of LIKE the attitude, and think it should be encouraged.
-Charlie
I've noticed that girls on the HP Wolf servers tend to play in the medic class. Not sure why
though.
I am a female gamer - I have been since I was 5 years old. I've always had a computer in my house since my Atari 2600 and Commodore Vic-20. I am heterosexual, attractive, working on my bachelors in mathematics and computer science, and play video games of all genre's - FPS, strategy, roleplaying, action, etc, etc. When I was growing up, I never saw a difference between 'boy toys' and 'girl toys' - I played with hot wheels cars with the neighbor boys and I had barbies as well, who always had a career of their own in my imaginary world. When playing with legos, I could reverse engineer every model listed on the box, but lacked the artistic flare to create my own images from scratch.
When I play games, I prefer to play a female avatar. There are a few male jerks who are just trying to cyb0r, but most are very cool. Nearly all of my online friends are guys who treat me exactly as I expect to be treated among my peers. They aren't looking for a girlfriend, they're just looking for a friend to play games with.
However, when I am in an IRC tech channel, I go by a male alias. While I am all for proving existing stereotypes wrong, I'm tired of arguing the same points over and over again. Unfortunately, I have found having a male alias gives me instant credibility that I don't get with a female alias. The bias is that I am an oddity, and therefore have to not only fight my point, but also the preconceived notion that I'm not supposed to know what I know.
I've always had a very, very strong interest in the sciences, and they were my favorite classes in school. I don't believe my aptitude and interest in science and gaming has anything at all with me being an oddity among my gender, but more with my upbringing that I never saw the difference between 'boy' interests and 'girl' interests.
Does the U.S. armed forces even allow women as fighter pilots yet? i
For about a decade now.
Here's a little experiment anyone can try: make a new male character and log onto GunBound. It's a fun, easy, free-to-get started game found here:
http://gunbound.net/
Play a few games as a male and see what happens if you ask questions and generally make like a noob. Look, many semi-literate teens are swearing at you and saying your weapon is cheap and going 'lol noob' and so on. Now make a female character and play the same way. Now, people even tell you the rules when you ask!
It just plain makes more sense to play as a girl. Boys are pathetically helpful, girls stick together with you.
Even the more grown-up players (not many on GunBound, really) seem to just look on you with that much more favor. I think it's partly because girls (and boys playing as girls) are less likely to spout abuse / gloat about leet skilz / generally care too much. As a result, people are friendlier to girls and it's slightly nicer to play with them.
I think that in a game with older, more mature players, and in games like Day of Defeat where people tend to play quite seriously, the effect is somewhat weaker -- but it's still there.
I'd also say this effect extends into many, many areas of IT and professional life -- given a male and a female applicant of equal skill, everyone I know in my position would hire the female because it's just better for business.
Such is life.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Maybe I'm just crazy, but it's almost as if females are getting over-exposure in the gaming world as goddesses or stand-out individuals. In truth, most of them just want to be treated equally, and not be shown as some person that we should all revere. Respect them like you would any other gamer stranger.
This is coming from my experience with my girlfriend who is just as much of a gamer as I am.
Of course, her birthday is on Xmas, but still insists to NOT treat her any more special than we would if her birthday wasn't there, so she may just be forcing the great equalizer issue.
I just want to say that the comments from the male crowd here alone is a very good indication of why there aren't as many girl gamers.
We simply do not get any respect.
A common misconception about girls that play games is that they play "boring online games", such as Yahoo games, solitare, chess or whatever. Yes, many girls play those kinds of games. However, so do many guys. The thing is, most of those guys would never post here, and most of those girls are the only ones the average slashdotter would see (Yeah, I'm using a stereotype here, so sue me).
Another common misconception is that games are marketed towards guys because there aren't as many girls that do play "the cool" games. This is a matter of market forces. While I agree that there are fewer girls that play games than guys, the number of girls that play games isn't really that low. In fact, most of my female friends play games. Females make up 51% of the world population, after all, so there's a HUGE market out there.
A third misconception is that girls aren't interested in games. Totally wrong, see above. Girls ARE interested in games. Obviously.
These are misconceptions that are repeated constantly. We girls are simply seen as people who aren't techy. If one of us IS, then we're seen as not as competent as a guy. If we prove to be competent, then we suddenly turn into a threat. All of those are reasons to talk down to girls, not just in gaming, but in other areas as well.
I can tell you one thing that girls are though. We're not interested in being called names, just because we try to show an interest in the very same field as guys.
Maybe, just maybe, more girls would confess to being gamers if they weren't insulted whenever they tried it.
(Okay, maybe this post wasn't so thought through, but I'm currently busy starving myself to keep my figure.... or maybe I'm just delirious from coding all day and forgetting to eat. Bah, whatever.)
Why does anyone think this is a good thing? Video games suck up so much of your time and leave you with virtually nothing--a slightly faster reflex is not as desirable as the physical benefits from playing an athletic sport or the mental benefits from playing a mathematical table game like chess, backgammon, or poker. Gender equality isn't a good thing when it applies to something that's harmful. Comparatively, an increase in male prostitution is not a good thing just as an increase in female gang membership is also not a good thing. Mod as troll or flamebait if you wish, but I'd like to know why Slashdoters (and Slashdotrises) think this is positive.
I caught the joke about ten years ago. It's still funny, so you don't need to stop laughing. =^-^=
I have no regrets, this is the only path.
My whole life has been "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"
I don't know what the big deal is all about. I've been online gaming for years, and the issue of women playing only comes up when someone says "Hey, I'm a girl!" and eveyone else says "Cool! Welcome!". I have heard of absolutely NO instances where someone has complained about there being a female playing. In fact, most people I've played with find it quite refreshing.
;).
BTW, if women are finding resistance being accepted in the gaming world, naming themselves the "DoMe clan" is not going to help. It's kind of like having an all black group calling themselves the "Lynch Squad". I can say that because I am black
Odin "Mech Warrior 4: Mercs"
Two words:
Jutta Kleinschmidt
A chick that not only can drive, but can lead in Paris-Dakar rally REALLY deserves respect.
--Coder
I have no doubt I can still waste them in any online game I choose to play them at, but I wouldn't put it past them to beat on a lot of other people online. I got everyone in my uncle's family to start playing PC games when I fixed their computer last. (Isn't it fun to be the one in your family that EVERYONE calls for that? :) ) Anyway...
They have 4 girls in the house, and one who already got married and moved away, so there is no influence from brothers. In fact, I'm the only male among my cousins other than the oldest, who was adopted later anyway. (This is out of 14 kids total. 'Kids' might not be a good word, I'm 25, heh.) I gave them Quake 2 and GTA after restoring their computer and making the printer and scanner work for the first time since they bought it. They had to set up a system of sharing the computer after this, because ALL of the girls became hooked on GTA. The youngest, only 4, played it the most, but she turned down the sound because 'the people said naughty words at me'.
You just have to give someone the right game to get started on. Fishing Derby on the 2600 was enough for me, but I guess some girls need GTA. :) I certainly wouldn't want separate leagues, though, I'll shoot a girl just the same as a guy, and would expect them to do the same.
This discussion has veered away from the fact that really hot Danish women are involved in geek activities. The gaming community should working to keep these women involved so someday a swimsuit gaming calendar will become a reality.
From President Bush and Governor Schwarzenegger this week?
sulli
RTFJ.
And how much of that 43% are playing The Sims? That is the ONLY game that ANY woman I know plays. Here, we are talking about (mostly) FPS. I don't know a single woman who plays any FPS (though maybe they are closet FPS fans). Come to think of it, I don't know any women PERIOD. *jumps off a cliff*
I dont play regularily online, but when I play some rounds of Deltaforce, Call of duty, or UT I usually end up in places 1-3. ;)
There are so many _bad_ males playing it isnt that hard to have some fun and even win tournaments.
Sure theres also the few insane elite guys who will waste you even barehandedly, but theyre the chosen few - and many of them probaby dont have a real life anyway
Umm, having been at the CXG event, and seeing how it was set to be the largest female gaming event ever, I think you are off here. It wasn't that that they were not allowed to play in the 'male' tourney, I have actually never heard of an event that excluded women, but simply that is was less profitable for them.
What I mean by that is there was a women only tourney that, if memory serves, paid out as well as the other 'general' competitions.
Now, would you compete against 50 of the best, or 7 of the best if money was awarded to the top 10 finishers? Only 2 guesses, so think hard about this one.
The one thing I am not sure about is if participating in one excluded you from the other.
Lastly, it turned into a massive clusterfsck anyway, the CS tourneys were pretty much shut down, and there was bad blood all around. People were pointing fingers left and right, and I was there till 3am watching it all happen. Happy days for the staff at CXG. There are several good writeups available, look them up if you care.
-Charlie
P.S. The funniest part of the event was watching the odd head spin around and track one of the women like they were on fire. Usually followed by 'A g.. A gi.. a.. a...'. It didn't happen often, but it did, and it was beyond funny.
Well, let's see. Did they say that? Nope.
Looks like that makes you a lying sack of shit.
a/s/l? post pix plz
kthnx
Christ, I hate faggots like you who pull the tired "HERE GOES MY KARMA BUT ITS WORTH DEFENDING MY NOBLE BELIEFS" line out of your crusted asshole.
Here's a newsflash: Karma is a measurement of your inability to get laid. Go deepthroat a shotgun you fucking faggot.
The thing that seems off about your post is how you're confusing videogames with sports. The physical differences (such as lower center of gravity, muscle-length / breadth, and etc.) that tend to delineate the female and male classes in sports don't really apply to videogames. PS: Chess grandmaster Anjelina Belakovskaia 1995, in case you were wondering. More recently, Alexandra Kosteniuk was ranked #29 over all in U.S. Chess on December 2003 (http://www.uschess.org/ratings/top/dec03/OverallL ist.php) which is ranked regardless of gender or age. She's only 20.
PPS: I regularly manage to kick people's asses in videogames, regardless of their gender. It's probably my lower center of gravity helping me.
I don't want the world, I just want your half.
The interesting thing about gaming is the fact that the friends you make can be so diverse. To say one (minority) group should be segregated because they don't play as good as majority group Y is just silly. Why would we want to put up more artificial walls?
Quack, quack.
THEORY: There is a gender based difference in the innate online gaming abilities.
TEST: Allow men and women to compete in the same arena and see if a statistical variation manifest itself. Particularly one that is not explained by raw numbers of male or female participants.
CONCLUSION: Depends on results of above test.
Still seems pretty straightforward to me. Either there is a difference or there is not. "Complete shit" would be making an assumption without testing it. It would also be "complete shit" to refuse to make adjustments in the face of contrary statistical data.
My hope is that it turns out that a good gamer is a good gamer, but hey, as long as the issue has been raised, why not put it to the test?
A goal is a dream with a deadline
The fact that the article takes for granted that women play puzzle, role playing, and adventure games is in and of it's self a large step for women. 2 years ago I don't think any main stream media would say women took part in anything except tetris and hoyles.
I do security
Really, someone who has so far only played with idiotic guys that only keep saying "u fag!" when you frag them, will feel very much relieved when playing against the usually quieter girls. I love playing against other people online, but I hate how the communication is abused with the permanent trash talk. The game is supposedly to be fun and people are there to show their playing skills, not their ignorance and horrible verbal/typing 5k1LL5. Gender mixed teams really help the S/N ratio, even if most of the conversations are "A/S/L?". Hey, both guys and girls go online to increase their chances to get laid, we can't do jack about it.
But I digress, I've had many girls as opponents in several kinds of games. In fact, I would recommend playing the awesome Pac-Man Vs. against women, it's ungodly funny. Women-friendly games are not always stupid things like Barbie. There are great games you can play with your SO, if not together, then taking turns is fun too. Examples? Animal Crossing, Mario Party, Mario Kart (online, yes!), Mario Tennis, Bomberman, Tetris Attack, Parappa and Umjammer Lammy, and Wario Ware, even some FPS I have played against women and had a great time.
I think an all-boy team is just as bad as an all-girl team. But, I also see an advantage with sexual-segregation. There are people very insecure about themselves, those are the ones that will never accept a defeat from the other gender. Let these idiots play with themselves in their closed circles, and let the mixed gender teams get rid of them and enjoy the insane fun.
So please, continue to make your gender-specific teams and keep yourselves out of this horrible, unfair mixed gender world where I play =P
- Otaku no naka no otaku, otaking da!!!
where are these imaginary male gamers who live in 'ph3a|2' of females? i play dod and cs and ut ect and i dont mind playing with chicks at all. all the gamer guys i know share that opinon. A hot girl who plays dod is like my dream date! Anyone intersted? ;)
Matt
You have 1 Moderator Point! Use it or lose it! Is that a threat? -vapid
...about the dearth of boys interested in playing with Barbie? Or Revlon or L'eggs concerned about how few men use their products?
Recently, I completed reading Blondie24 -- Playing at the Edge of AI, an interesting book by David Fogel on his attempt to use evolutionary computation to evolve a high quality checker playing program. He tested his program by playing online against other checker players on The Zone, an online gaming network.
Early on, he discovered that his rather pedestrian nickname attracted few opponents, so he changed his online nick to be Obi_WanTheJedi, which seemed to attract a great deal more competition. As his program was revised and became stronger, he noticed that opponents would often become rude and angry as they fell behind, and would stall hoping he would drop out, or just disconnect, often after swearing like a sailor. Such drop outs made evaluating the games more difficult, so they tried a different strategy. This seemed worst among intermediate players: the better players were often much better sports.
They developed a cover story for Blondie24, a 24 year old female mathematics major. She was also single, attractive, and looking for a boyfriend.
They reported that they were on the receiving end of crude remarks and suggestions in about 1 in 3 games. Interestingly enough, the better players were reported to be uniformly polite, complimenting "her" on her excellent play at so young an age.
It seems rather obvious to me that women and men should be competing in the same competitions in this arena. The mere fact that fewer women play should not be a deterrent, nor do I think the prospect of easier money for women competitors merely by virtue of their being fewer female competitors is a good precedent to set. But perhaps all players should review their own behavior, and try to maintain a degree of fun and sportsmanship.
There is much pleasure to be gained in useless knowledge.
I have to say I can only imagine what it would be for me to live *as* a female gaming squad.
I suppose I would have 10 breasts and 10 arms to fondle myself wi....
OH, WAIT!
I had forgotten that Slashdot editors are incapable of using correct grammar! They must have meant, "Life for a female gaming squad."
The sad thing is that homophobic (gay, fag, queer), racist (jew, nigger, coon), and/or other inoffensive language (rape, cocksucker) seem to be a standard part of the lexicon for a large percentage gamers.
Frankly, I find this unacceptable. I'm not homosexual but I do find homophobic language offensive, and the same goes for the other, less acceptable language that crop up on almost every public gaming service.
I find it both funny and sad that these kids (and most of the people who resort to such language are kids) think nothing of using language that they wouldn't dare use at the dinner table or to a someone they bumped into at the mall to sound "cool" and "macho" online.
And it's amazing how far they'll take it: I've had people threaten to track me down in real life and kill me and my family, rape our corpses and then rip our heads off and shit down our necks. If it wasn't so laughable at the time then I would have been well within my rights to report the matter to the relevant authorities. I'd love to see some 13 year-old sat down on the couch with his parents and a pair of law enforcement officers explaining that he regularly sent death threats to people just because they outclassed him in a game.
The fact is that as long as this sort of behaviour is accepted or even tolerated by the majority of online gaming communities then those communities will remain the domain of teenagers who have bigger mouths and egos than brains.
There's no doubt in my mind that, whilst most men would shrug their shoulders, dismiss the idiots as part of life and just carry on gaming, most women will not tolerate such stuff.
As my girlfriend put it when she saw some of the stuff that gets spewed out by some of these people, "What idiot would say that kind of stuff and why would you want to spend your free time listening to it?"
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
you see no apparent difference in ability? I really don't know but my guess would be that there is no gender based difference. From my exposure to the martial arts world, I've faced female sparring partners who were tactially as good as any male opponent I've faced. In fact, if any experienced (obviously you go a lot easier on novices) sparring partner thought I was taking it easy on them because they were female, they'd be p*ssed - and rightly so. It's a game, and they came to play - so let them.
A goal is a dream with a deadline
Colour me impressed.
If there were more posts like this, maybe Slashdot would be worth the 2+ hrs/day I spend on it.
Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
She was a celebrity gamer and beat the crap outta John Romero in Q3. They eventually married, tho now they're divorced.
They both advocated separate and unequal treatment for gays and lesbians. Thanks for the correction.
sulli
RTFJ.
Whoa! Those gaming girlz are hot!
"I have played computer games since I was a kid," says Ms Maller, a member of the Danish clan, DoMe.
Did anyone else get aroused by this? =)
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." - Jack Nicholson
you'll have to shake that part out. However, my guess would be that a good gamer is a good gamer and leagues would be better ranked on categorized abilities as opposed to gender. Your suggestion of hours of experience would be such an example.
I understand there are theorys on visual-spatial acuity, etc., but I got a feeling that at the elite level, it boils down to tactical thinking. None the less, if somebody wants to actually test it, I'd be curious to see the results.
A goal is a dream with a deadline
Shut up and take your shitty moderation like the nerdman you are.
It's slashdot, you expect the limpdick mods to actually use their brains for something other than thinking up new unfunny LOTR jokes?
Actually, one could make the argument that women are superior shooting gamers because women have much faster reaction times with their hands (tip: if you're a guy taking a karate class, don't pair up with a girl for the blocking drill. It's more likely she'll touch you than you her;). Just like you probably won't win at slap-the-hand with your sister, because her hands are faster -- they're smaller and lighter, plus her reactions are a bit sharper.
Counterpoint, one could argue that faster hands are offset by the fact that men's brains are (slightly but consistently) better at three dimensional reckoning, i.e. remembering where the car is parked, navigating a maze, getting yourself "unlost" (without asking questions:), driving a car... do your own googling, but IIRC (&pretty sure I do), this has been researched extensively.
I'm not bashing either sex, although I did moot the point I originally had when I started writing.
=)
Their thought is much more strategic and their reflexes much better than us. I once saw women playing Tetris, and it was scary.
Did the person wielding the mod points even bother to read the whole post?
I don't know, but I surely won't when I meta-moderate it later.
http://use.perl.org
We had one female in our team and she was with us because she was very skilled. one of our better players actually. but the chances of getting together enough equally skilled players for a clan seem next to zero.
why make an all girl team and then complain about not getting to play with the boys? first you say no to the boys and then complain when the boys say no to you (which they probably dont even do based on the fact that you're a girl but because you're probably just not skilled enough to compete.)
PjotrP
As a female gamer, I can say the following:
I played The Sims when it first came out, and enjoyed it thoroughly at first. It was fun, and kept me entertained for the better part of a week. After the house- and family-building aspect got old, though, I discovered that there are only a certain number of times you can remove someone's pool ladder or stick a guy in a small, doorless room with a lit fireplace and loads of wicker furniture before it ceases being amusing.
I also enjoy games such as Quake III and Unreal Tournament. I like them because I'm good at them, and can whip just about any of my male friends. They're the perfect games for a LAN party, when you've got ten people in a room, working as teams, shouting orders, laughing, and having a good time. For me, though, first-person shooters sorta lose their appeal without the group dynamic.
Even more entertaining are games like Warcraft and Starcraft, mainly because they involve thought and planning, and aren't just a wild frag-fest (although those are fun as well). Unlike FPSs, I'm equally entertained playing a RTS with someone in the same room as I am with someone online, or even against the computer. When my internet connection is out and I have the urge to play a game, chances are I'll be loading up Brood Wars for a three-hour game against the Protoss and Zerg.
These days, though, my main vise is EverQuest. Yes, I'm an Evercrack junkie. But, unlike what seems to be the majority of the players, I'm not terribly concerned about level advancement. I don't have the uberest gear, I'm not in a raiding guild, and I'm not flagged for the Plane of Time. I do, however, have a wide circle of close friends I enjoy hanging out with, and am part of a close-knit guild that's more like a family. Most of the female players I associate with feel the same way as I do, so I suppose it's the social interaction that we find most important.
Anyways, those are just my thoughts on the subject... *shrug*
This is a special excite
This
They name their clan "DoMe" and don't expect to get shit? please. Everyone knows that a real FPS clan name has to have a reference to evil, a lack of light, drugs, mythical creatures, or computer hardware.
And Newsom is right.
sulli
RTFJ.
How the hell would you even know with most leagues? I played a lot of FPS games my freshmen and sophmore years of university, and was in a number of clans that played in a number of leagues. We had no idea the genders of our opponents, it's not like we talked to them. Hell, expect for voice communications we wouldn't have known the genders of our teamates. One clan I joined actually had a female leader. Didn't know that until she started fliriting with one of the other members in IRC (her boyfriend).
I have no idea why it is an issue. I'm in a SWG guild now and it's a mix of men and women, some husband-wife teams. Mix of ages too, from 16-50. Some father-sons teams and the like. That's one of the nice things about online games, you can have a real wide cross section of people together to play.
Come on, that would never fly. Even though girls would play it, you'd miss out on all the gay merchandising. I mean, come on.. have you ever looked at what Ken wears? Ken isn't Barbie's b/f, he's her gay confidant. When the BarbieWorld(TM) MMORPG gets launched, the first 60% will be signing up to "see how easy it is to fit in".
Oooh, cb00te2003, that's a *kee-yute* haltertop. And where did you get those shoes? Does Bloomingdales make them in men's sizes?
ps: gay is ok. well, for other people, anyway. :
there are a lot of rude online gamers playing FPS games that either flirt/try to follow girl gamers around OR call them names. Sometimes the presence of a girl handle actually encourages better teamwork since letting boys know you'd rather play as a team than just go solo encourages them to do what the girl wants :) Personally, I'd like to see more girl gamers because they tend to be teamplay oriented and understand cooperation....whereas a lot of boys are dealing with their ego/competitive socialization issues online. Yes these are stereotypes, but i've been playing heavily for years and when I use a girl handle on a public server there are usually a couple of boys that actually start to play more as a team...its hit or miss though, sometimes you just get more shit. A final note...sex and rape in game talk seems to have waned a bit, a couple years ago there were a LOT of 'Dude, you got raped' comments...not exactly welcoming discourse to a population that is more frequently the victim of rape.
All your preview button are belong to Hello Kitty.
To be very good takes skill ... to be the best takes a full time commitment. Are there really as many young women as guys who are willing to put 40+ hours a week into a computer game? For the love of the game?
... and I know it is a preconception, but I picture no life loosers as mostly males :)
Giving up most of your life for a computer game is what it takes
Ugh. I have to say that all of this genuinely irks me. One of the reasons that I enjoy having an alternative virtual life is that it can provide some measure of distance from all of the petty "Us versus Them" contentiousness that suffuses so much of day to day existance. The idea of people deliberately reintroducing that dynamic by actively discriminating against female players is just infuriating. With all of the vile baloney that the media is constantly pumping out about gamers, one would think that the community would WELCOME some gender diversity.
But, after all, I suppose that the people behaving this way are just the same sort that create such tensions in the real world, eh?
A word to the wise for all of you l33t Counter-Strike wankers: God knows that you poor bastards need every opportunity that you can get to earn the affection of the ladies, and, given that your CS habit probably precludes the development of most other skills/redeeming qualities, I would not be so quick to squander the good will of prospective female gamers were I in your position.
It's a guy thing. Nothing personal (usually) and we all get it. It's fun and a nice stress release. It's rude, crude and usually involves words so foul that you'd never actually utter them in anger. It's not personal.
Cycling has CAT 5 through CAT 1, then elites, Swimming, pretty much the same thing, gymnastice, ditto, and so on and so forth. Why not categorized competition for online gaming? I'd be kinda surprised if they didn't do it already.
A goal is a dream with a deadline
I think women into gaming would be great, hey most of them are quite slow when it comes to games and stuff (no offence to all the uber fast women out there..) but it'd be a lot of fun to take the battle of the sexes to a brand new arena. :D
Those who have read my posts before might recognize that I happen to know a thing or two about NWN. And as such I've had the needs for good DMs on my servers.
Now over time I've had a lot of players come and go from my mod and some of them were some of the best players I've seen bar none. However often their temperments and or mannerisms made them unsutable, in my judgement, to make them a DM. And guess what, most of the ones that might have had a shot were guys but it was often those "guy" tendencys that lost them the job at the same time.
Now enter in the girl RPG gamers. Since nearly everyone has made a female RPG PC (Player Chararacter for the uninitiated.) its not as easy as picking out the female avitars to find the girl gamers but after chatting with someone for a bit it typically becomes apparent. And suprise suprise, what the girl gamers sometimes lack in sheer skill they make up for in being nice, fair, and dedicated to the game!
Anyway, while from my perspective there are still some genres that are pretty much male domniated and I don't see that changing. The girl gamers are coming, and I for one welcome them with open arms.
Really, I know what I'm doing...Ohhhh, look at the shiny buttons!
The one aspect of American society where women aren't allowed to compete (even nominally) is sniping. There are issues of compasions and violence involved in the decision. The studies involved might give some insight into this decision?
and the ability to track more targets at one time.
link to a study or some proof? How does this get modded insightful? Because it's his opinion? Tell your finacee to come to 8 on the break, play some real tekken players and get owned.
1) Player moderation (ie. voting people out of the game)
2) Voice chat
I was worried about #2 when it started out, but it actually does a lot to reduce the trash in online gaming. A lot of people won't say out loud the kind of words they'll type, at least not the extremes. There's still plenty of salty language out there, but there is a distinct difference between what people will say, and what they'll type.
Also, for the kiddies, the fact that they have to say the things out loud, inside their house, can make all the difference. I've kept a great post from a gaming message board about this: "I was watchin my cousin play [Return to Castle Wolfenstein: Tides of War] and then this lil kid comes on over the mic and says mother****er then the next u hear is a giant smack n then the kid starts crying roflmao....". Plus, anyone that tries to talk someone down in a squeaky kiddie voice usually gets laughed and humiliated out of the room.
As for women, I'll often let my girlfriend wear the headset for playing SOCOM II online, and let her do all the talking for me. She often gets attention, but she never gets harassed, and the majority of the undersexed kiddies are too shy to try and hit on her verbally. That, and everyone else audibly laughs at them and makes fun of them when they try.
Some malcontents are undeterred by voice chat, but it does help weed out a lot of it. For the rest, players being able to vote losers out of the game is a great feature. My main complaint is that too few games explore such a feature fully.
For fucks sake! ./ next.
This is the thin end of the wedge!
They'll be on
Goddammit!
sig under development
Few things are more fun than taking cocky, obnoxious teenaged boy gamers down a few pegs ... or, for that matter, cocky, obnoxious male gamers of any age.
Everyone knows BOY gamers have a joystick. GIRL gamers have a mouse with a ultra sensitive scroll-wheel. Sheesh.
I think you are being stalked.
I even play sports in a couple recreational leagues because they are a lot of fun, but I don't take them nearly as seriously as people in the more competitive leagues. What I'm not ok with is a group of people saying that they can compete in the competitive league, finding out that they can't compete, and then telling the organizational body that they have to form another league for the less competitive people. If those people want to form their own less competitive league, I wish them luck. But, it doesn't fall on the organization's shoulders to do so.
One more hypothetical, just out of curiosity. If you do end up creating the men's and women's leagues because the women are not competing, do you let the less competitive guys into the women's league?
Well, you know, when pro gaming tournaments have a history of doing things like rewarding players with strippers (e.g. Babbage's CPL 2000), it's no wonder they want to separate the males from the females. Not even in American football, which has always objectified women, is it appropriate for anyone to hire women to prance around topless at *official* events (Janet Jackson notwithstanding). It just makes everyone involved look like a bunch of pathetic weenies who don't get laid often enough (if at all).
I would love to see women competing with men directly in pro gaming tournaments, but I think the sport definitely needs to do some growing up, on the way.
Physical strength is very important to fighter pilots. Under continous high g force manuevers it becomes very taxing to keep looking around the cockpit. To get off topic one of the major problems with the women in all branches of the US military is double standards. The same people who scream about equality scream even louder when it is suggested that women should be held to the same standard as men. This is why most women are not respected in the military. They are babied along with lower standards, given prefential treatment, and then bitch and moan about being discrimnated against. Nothing will lower your respect for someone more than hearing them complain about having 3 other people in their tent while all the men are living 8 to a tent.
The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
I feel that I'm part of the first generation who was plagued by the "You can do anything you want to! You're female! Anything!!" people, trying to be helpful. Meanwhile, I sat back and was like, "yes, I know...I get it! Ok! Can I -- please, I just want to...ARGH! Can you just shut up and let me go and actually DO those things you say I can do?!" Every single one of them felt they were the first person to tell me that I was a free girl. Bet they sure felt important.
While I am grateful that I don't feel restricted, it just pisses me off more when people try to then restrict me. Of course I currently suck at CounterStrike. Of course I currently suck at Diablo. There is a lot of stuff to get used to in terms of UI, and just plain memorizing whatever the hell you're carrying. But all it takes is time.
My boyfriend is currently helping me learn Soul Calibur 2 because I'm addicted. :) Re-teaching me, in a way, because I've had such little chance to play fighting games that I used to resort to button mashing. At first, when I watched him and his friends play and hear them all laugh at the same time at some move on screen, I couldn't pick it up on what was so funny. But it just takes time. I feel more confident about seeing the attacks/blocks/parries and seeing the chess game (He just attacked and was parried three horizontal hits -- what're the odds the next one will be vertical?) involved. After playing lots, now I start laughing and calling people out. (Heheh...just stay far away a liiiittle longer while your cheap-ass sword builds your health back up, Nightmare...)
Parent is right. Ok, so it just so happens that activities that have been made with men in mind currently are having trouble finding women working at the same level. Big surprise. People are apparently not ready to deal with a female, and everything is still tailored to males. I'm not saying change it. As I said before, all it takes is time...for me, anyways. I tried a different thing -- fighting games in the above example -- and did the best I could(button-mashed), but I'm with time I'm able to differentiate what's going on a bit better. Give anyone, male or female, something to do that's not in their current paradigm, and they will get it with practice. Or maybe I'm just honestly slow compared to most girls.
Every time on /. that someone brings up females and techsomething, there's a discouraging amount of commenters who just fling insults. Did I grow up in some sort of encouragement-dream-world? I consistently see the amount of girl geeks around me growing in every compsci class I take. Is my world the exception?
Commence flaming, because I admit I'm a little irked by some insulting commenters, so this may be a little rant-ish and incoherent...ah well. :)
...or Tony Gwynn, or John Kruk, or Babe Ruth...
That doesn't count those who were intoxicated and still performed at a "high" level (e.g, Mickey Mantle, Dock Ellis (who apparently through a no-hitter while on an LSD trip)).
Well my understanding on Couter-Strike is everyone wants to be a sniper. The eye opening point is that the russians found out in WWII that women made better snipers than the men. A few quotes from http://www.vor.ru/English/Victory/vict_16.html "The defenders of the Motherland in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945 included women too. Women joined the army on a voluntary basis and became pilots, members of tank crews, snipers. One of the sniper companies was formed from women graduates of a sniper school near Moscow. The company was known as "the company of crack shooters", and its members demonstrated feats of heroism fighting their way through to Berlin. From February till May 1945 the company was commanded by Guards Lieutenant Nina Lobkovskaya." "By May 1945 the number of killed Nazis in Nina's record book increased to 89." Place this against the american icon, "during the Vietnam War, Marine Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock became the most accomplished sniper of the era, with 93 confirmed kills and 300 probable woundings."
I'm told you are what you eat, does that mean I can be you by tomorrow with some A1?
Louise Thomsen is way too hot to be a gamer. I know that's exactly what the article is talking about, but hey..
Just too hot...
and that is the only reason they play. Seriously. Most of them feel the need at some point to say "IM A GIRL!" and watch the nerds drool. I have more respect for the (few) female players who don't activly advertise their cunthood.
Heh, you aren't thinking about the issue hard enough...
NONE of the big gaming events and leagues have ANY restrictions that would stop girls from competing. The Cyberathlete Professional and Amateur Leagues, the World Cyber Games, the E-Sports World Cup, Quakecon, the Clanbase European leagues, the United Gaming Syndicate, etc.
Yet, female-only tournaments are supported by many girl gamers! Why do they support exclusionary tournaments? Well, there is the camraderie associated with people of a similar sex, of course - although that isn't much of a reason for discrimination.
But also, very few girls are actually good enough to do well in big tournaments that allow men to play, too...so their best shot at getting money/prizes/recognition is to have a separate tournament!
For example, consider Succubus, arguably the best female Quaker 3 player in the world. Looking at the (sadly outdated) Pro-Player Index, we see her prizes in major events:
Tournament History
CPL Europe - Holland: placed Top 64, won $0
BabbagesCPL: placed Top 128, won $0
BabbagesCPL Female Tourney: placed 1st, won $3000
All Female Tournament 2000: placed 1st, won $2000
When she competed in the anyone-allowed tournaments, she wasn't able to get a high place nor a prize - but she still gets a lot of respect and a little cash for winning exclusionary 'Female-Only' tournaments. Thanks to this extra opportunity, she was able to win far more money in 2000 than 'star' male Quakers of much higher skill like Pow3r, PELE, Wombat, Python, ProZaC, and so on.
Yes, there are females who have the skill and experience to compete at a high level in computer games. For example, Sweden has a lot of very good female Counter-Strikers, most famously Queen, who was in the clan A-Laget back when it was a top team. But only a very few are that good - most just aren't at the same level as the top male players. So why would they want to play against boys, when they can play against girls and get better prizes and winner's reputations?
It's about time that there are some girl gamers.. we need more of them!
Cause you are all a bunch of ugly mofo's and smell bad.. i want to be sitting next to some cute girls who smell nice and bring snacks.
-b
Is there nothing left for guys anymore, It seems like every sport/game/everything else sacred to guys is being played by women, which is not the problem, but EXPECT different rules, or let us into the girls bathroom, whats the difference?
as long as they arent fat and ugly, they can play wherever they want.
Female as in mares?
Few points real life points I wanted to make:
1) a all girl league may be a good way to actually make progress in getting more girls interested in gaming - taking out the male component may make it an interesting spectacle and get it some press to get it kicked off (this would be a good thing)
2) the top athlete in any sport - including not seriously physical ones (pool/golf) - are dominated by men in the end - this also rolls into just about any business in the world - i love women and i think my wife is brilliant - but in the end - i do think the best man is better than the best woman at nearly anything (obvious sexual jokes aside)
3) anytime i go into a Gaming Software store (ebgames, software etc, compusa) - 95% are guys shopping in the software section - why would you market to girls if this is the case?
4) a "gamer" and a person who once played a game is a different thing - i would be willing to bet the numbers being quoted are skewed by this fact - my wife has played the sims and a couple of other random games - but she is by no means a gamer - her 30 hours of playing per YEAR doesnt make her a gamer.
Forget taking an intro bio course- open your eyes and look around. Notice that ALL men are not equal in size, nor are ALL women; notice that there is a large overlap in the range of sizes. Muscle mass is dependent on USAGE and nutrition, not just gender.
I'm not just being paranoid- I've seen the data.
Some days I pWn, other days I am pWn3d.
(I'd like to think I have more days of the former rather than the latter!)
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Alice from EA. Decent storyline, nice graphics and tons of things to kill. :)
My gf never played quake, unreal or any of those games. I picked up Alice for her new pc since she liked box art and story seemed promising.
She finished the game mostly by herself.
By the time we were done, it became clear that I was not only bad with directions while driving but also sucked at navigating large maps in Alice
pWn4g3
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I even think they should come up with specialized gaming characters.. ones that can cook and clean for the other players that are doing the real gaming.
Square-Enix wouldn't lie.
All this goes to show that if you're stupid enough to marry a girl who doesn't at least respect your interest in games and technology (or better, join in with it) you've only yourself to blame.
Holy shit. Jesus I got coffee everywhere you dumbfuck.
haaahaha... multitasking is overrated, don't read at less than threshold: 2 and drink at the same time.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
have them compete in the same games as males. Don't treat them like they are inferior, because they are not inferior.
Game companies typically market towards males, but virtually ignore females. There are some females who are interested in the same games as males, but they are a minority. Please do not ignore the other half of the market.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
I used a female skin for Q3A and I definitely get focused on first in a room full of players. When I switched to the boring default it was markedly easier after spawning.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
lol ;)
Seriously though, I have a female friend who could probably win some serious money if she started playing Chess professionally. I don't think gender has much to do with it though, it's all intelligence and skill.
All your base are belong to Google.
What are you, living in the Stone Age!?!?!
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
> My husband, and the majority of my friends, would find it shocking that I "hate" them based on their 43rd chromosome.
You mean they all have Down's Syndrome? I suspect you mean "differing 42nd chromosome."
Virg
I won, asshat. ^_^
Time for a googlefight! Male gamers (106000) vs. Female gamers (144000)! FEMALE GAMERS WIN - just as I always suspected.
I made a PHP/MySQL library that prevents SQL injection & makes coding easier!
The lower my center of gravity seems to shift.
And it doesn't really seem to help my game.
Damn these dorritos!!!
What were you expecting?
We just picked up Animal Crossing (GCN), and my wife seems to like that. She also enjoys puzzle-like games.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
All this says, all the good geek chicks are playing Counter Strike!
-- DuckWing
The whole idea of online segregation is absurd. Who's to say I'm a man or a woman? Can you prove it? It all comes down to if you're good enough to play regardless of sex, race, creed, yadda yadda yadda.
As far as I can tell, it's bunk. There are tournaments ($75 entry fee) and there are female-only tournaments ($35 entry fee). I didn't see anything to indicate that females could NOT join the real tournaments. That males can't join the female-only tournament is implied by the fact that they're called "female" tournaments, but that's hardly gender-discrimination aimed at females. That these female-only tournaments are "viewed as a sideline" might just possibly be because they *are* a sideline.
Jeff Freeman
Would someone help this woman pull her head out of her ass? I think the main purpose of games where you can be shot is to shoot other people!
Moo!
This page was generated by a Squad of Female Gamers for Bastian227 (107667).
The women players of WWIIOL are an absolutely essential component of both Allied and Axis teams. They are rarely the most uber players but several very top people do happen to be female.
More importantly, WWIIOL is a team game where a commander may be corraling 50-100 players at a time in a very chaotic environment. Several of the women generals really shine in this department, and are moving up the command chain as respected commanders. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see a female side Commander-in-Chief running forces in the 1000s.
It doesn't have to be pretty shiny social interaction or l33t stuff for the women to show what they can do online.
________________________________________ History Must Not Fall Into The Wrong Hands ___________________________________
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3496963.stm
It is me or is she playing Lemmings?
He was one of the better FPS players. Then he got gender reassignment surgery. Now she's one of the best female FPS players around.
Go fig. *shrug*
Hm.... I've seen a lot of stereotypes and statistics thrown out there. Two that I want to comment on.
In male-male friendships I often see guys jokingly insulting each other. "Midget", "Idiot" and more. In female friendships, verbal attacks are taken seriously. If I insulted one of my female friends, it would be assumed I meant what I said. Sure we spar verbally, but not aiming for each other. (Politics, other people, random fish (yes, fish), anything can be a argument) So though you have a bunch of guys insulting each other easily and they still have fun, a girl fresh into the world of gaming wouldn't be ready for insults she isn't supposed to be offended by. This isn't my reason though.
The main reason I have not downloaded the UT demo or any such thing is: I don't want to start out bad. I don't want to lose, to a guy or otherwise. Don't act like it's only the guys who don't care if they lose now.
Isn't this just a manufactured 'controversial' plant news article pretending to be actual news.
Let's see the tide of hummanity that this article 'discovered'
a. boys and girls play differently
b. boys are less than mature than girls at the same age
c. girls are more polite than boys
d. a 12 year old is much less mature than a 25 year old
Damn, can't they just photocopy an old news story from 5 years ago and just republish it without pretending to present it as new news.
I'll give you a heads up here: There will be a 1 day avalance of IRS / income tax filing / etc., on April 15, 2004.
moderating overgeneralizations 'interesting' is ridiculous.
a 12 year old is much less mature than a 25 year old
Prove it.
Right?
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
Where everybody is exactly the same and any form of chemistry between the sexes is long forgotten.
I think the only "winners" will be those who always were, and always will be malcontent, irrespective of present conditions.
Sorry, it's another "you know, white guys drive like this, but black guys drive like *this*" post.
Guys get obsessed with systems. Most guys know absolutely *everything* about some topic, whether it be computers, car engines, movies, comic books, etc, etc. Girls, by contrast, tend to think that obsessive knowledge in those areas is a waste of time.
This means that in general, girls won't bother learning the intricate depths of some games. They won't bother spending hours perfecting double-jumps in Quake2, or configuring their keys for faster weapons changes. This generally puts them at a disadvantage to the guys, but if they really wanted to beat the guys, there's no reason they couldn't.
In this context I remember something Anand Lal Shimpi, Mr. AnandTech, wrote in an editorial when AnandTech was first founded.
Anand was 16 at the time, and it looks like he had gotten some critic along the lines of "how could a 16-year-old competently write articles on hardware". He just stated that the Internet allowed everybody to use the same tools and the same platform, therefore removing any superficial barriers that the real world society might impose - be it age, race, sex or anything else.
This is just as applicable to games. When I'm on the Internet, I don't care who my game partner really is. The only thing I care about is that I can have a good time with him or her. None of the usual social barriers apply.
If you want to play games with teen boys who are trying to get off on how tough they are, you're going to be reading some low-powered tough talk. That's just the way it is. If you think you are too high class for that, then find some other pursuit.
I won't reitterate what a hundred others have said about seperate leagues in online gaming. It's been said. Except that the idea that segregating all the girls into a league is as laughable as having a league for people who've only been playing for 3 months or less, and want to feel better about being killed in 60 seconds instead of 20.
If you're not good at the game, don't enter competitions.
One of the great things about online gaming is that it doesn't matter if you're the best or not. It's all about if you're having fun (of course it's more fun if you're the winner, though).
I used to play CS and Team fortress years ago, and can recall many a game where I'd get owned, but still had a great time, as I'd keep trying to outwit the other player/team (sometimes not sucessfully, mind you). Mind you, back then there seemed to be more teamwork and comraderea (sp?) between strangers.
women get treated like crap in both by sexist users and gamers.
doesnt suprise me that they get left out of the same brackets as males, because sadly, a lot of gaming geeks and geeks out there dont see women worth their time, not all, but a good handful do.
My kristen is into gaming and computers, she codes, and plays ragnarok online, some other rpg's and dance dance revolution.
though, given the incentive, she can prolly kick anyone's ass in any FPS you throw at her.
It must be a male ego thing, girls toting around guns threatens men I guess, never has threatened me (except when they point them at me. yike.)
virtual or not. not to mention you check several BBS' online and you see women getting treated like shit when they talk about something they accomplished in linux for being first time users, they get all sorts of trolling and sexist remarks. and these people wonder why they cant get laid..
sheesh..
anyways, I'd love to see some girls take on some dudes at UT2k4 for a few rounds. see who gets pwned.
Tell you what. You tell my gf that she "lacks confidence" and I'll see if I can hold her back.
Men have to put up with as much, if not more, sexism from women as the other way around.
One of the voice taunts included in the beta demo is "You play like a girl". I am not saying it should be removed, PC be damned, but it's quite indicative, isn't it? :)
:) She never liked single player FPS games, but after trying UT2004 online she was even compelled to overcome her P2P addiction and close KaZaA and eDonkey. :)))
:) If you see girl-neto on one of UT2004 servers, be kind. :))
On the other hand, my younger sister (20 years old) got hooked on the demo instantly.
It was quite funny to hear her bragging about her team winning 4:1 in CTF with her brinding all the flags.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
One other difference, though: the woman is getting hers from a real live partner. The guy who's eating pizza, drinking beer, and using the computer while getting a blowjob is using one of those silicone molds of some porn star's mouth.
When *I* give a blowjob, I expect undivided attention. Whether or not my partner considers it "necessary."
Well, this girl I know said she wanted to come into where I work and give me a blow job while sitting under my desk. Unfortunately, that would not work as I would get busted easilly with the way my desk is arranged.
So I was at her place one evening. We were drinking. Her computer was acting funny and she asked me if I'd fix it (she wanted to show me some pics that were on there). I really didn't feel like fixing the computer, it was some annoying WinXP problem that I didn't really have a clue about. But then a light bulb went off in my head. I said "I'll fix it if you get under the desk and suck me off."
Being the crazy nympho, she was happy to do it, and it fulfilled the fantasy she had before, so it worked out nicely. And at the same time, I was trying to fix the computer, and drinking wine at the same time. Well, ok, I was pretenting to try to fix the computer, but still, I was multitasking for the most part, and had the computer been working properly, I might have been browsing some porn (though it wouldn't be necessary, this girl is seriously hot; too bad she doesn't live in the same city anymore).
I admit, throwing the slice of pizza into the mix would be a little extreme. But I'm sure its been done by someone, somewhere.
Zoot!
I just came all over your face. Mmmmm...
I'm all in favor of women playing online games, I don't harsh on them or harass them, and I find they're just as interested in the same things as I am while gaming. I've had my head handed to me many times by women gamers, and it was a blast. No need to debate differences between men and women gamers, any more than there's a need to debate nuances of philosophy. Just play games, and let others sort out the stacks of bodies afterward!
[Subject heading is a quote from Robert Heinlein, I think as a proposed article title from Jubal Harshaw in "Stranger in a Strange Land."]