Once something becomes part of our lives and history, changing it is very, very and I mean very difficult.
Believe it or not, making the people of earth (lets ignore other planets for now shall we) to believe and use ONE religious is much more simpler than adopting the 13 month calendar.
I don't like this a bit. This makes it sound as if Java is "the" langue for OO and everything else has to do with programming - a very bad message to send. The fact is, each problem has its own needs and langue to be used.
If you are familiar with Knuth's books, than you must be familiar with his customized programming language (sorry I don't remember its name off the top of my head.) I prefer the use of such language (maybe extend on Knuth's) to cover OO.
Using Java (or any other similar language) has a "good" side and a "bad" side.
GOOD: this means that students will code at OO and "business level" to solve a "business" problem.
BAD: this means that you won't known much what is happening "under the hood"
If you are familiar with Kanuth's books and the language that he uses, I preface to see Kanuth's language extended to use OO. This way you cover all grounds.
A lot of good post - I am impressed but I wander what % of those posters "do upon themselves/others as they do upon others/themselves." That is, do you practice what you perish?!!:-)
I haven't read the book, but from the review and posting(s) on it, it sound like the book is entirely about the "Renaissance" and the "print". If so than I am not interested. But I have the following question:
what about the "have" and the "have-not" when it comes to tech.?!
Does the book address this? If not, this is one area where tech. end up dividing people and causing a lot of trouble. Just take a look at 3rd word countries and tell me this is not so if we continue on the current path.
If an application written in GNOME runs on Windows with a different look-and-feel than the current Windows UI, than expect Windows users to reject it.
Lotus and Borland are good example. A while ago, those two companies wrote their applications on Windows by "re-inventing" the UI (they had their own menus, buttons, etc.) As a result users were annoyed to use the applications and thus, they died out.
This is why I don't see much "value" in projects like those other than being "cool". If that is what Open Source and Linux is targeting, working on "cool" projects, than it should stop calling M$ the "evil empire" and stop the "war". This is why I repeated the word "war" in my posting.
"cool" project are just that, "cool", but the market wants "value" so that's where my money is.
-- George
While your comment is "right on" with what the/. readers at large want, it also contradict with the majority of the/. posters.
Look at it this way: 15-20 years ago when consumers went to a car dealer, the car dealer (or TV add) talked to the consumer about the car's technology such as: what is the horse power, how often do I have to tune-it-up, is it fuel injection, how many sparks dose it have, etc. etc. Today, NONE of those are mentioned out. Just look at the TV adds, you will see that the adds are about "values" such as: comes with "on-star", customizable driver setting, automatic "spin" prevention, etc., etc.
So yes, while this project "was done in 1.5 weeks by ON PERSON" and I congratulate the person, (I am not against what he did) I still stand with my earlier statement: if Linux and Open Source is ever going to win over MS (which is what/. posters at large often cite they want to do) than our focus must be on creating "value" rather than "cool" projects if we are going to win.
OK folks. While the end result of this project is "cool" I fail to see the "value" that the end user will get from it.
I mean, do you think the Windows user is willing to learn yet-another-UI that sits next to the Windows UI?!!! Yes the technical group will be excited about this (as I am) but we make up only the very small % of the users at large.
Folks, call me crazy, but as long as Linux and the Open Source community keep there focus ENTIRELY on "cool" and technical-only-oriented projects, we will never be able to convince the Windows user to switch nor are we going to win new users.
Beside, the war is no longer againts MS's OS, it is now with MS's application as well as AOL's content offering.
Once we switch to the 10 dig system, I could end up dialing the FPI in another state (by miss-dialing one number) where my intention was to dial my local pizza shop -- please don't get me started that you never miss-dialed.
With the 7 digit system, I like the fact that I have a *clue* about where my call is landing. I.e.: there is '1' and 'area-code' so I *known* that I am making a) long distance call & b) out-of-stat/zone call. Will that info. still be with us with a 10 digit number?
If you sit back and think why HTML is so widely used, you will see two important factors:
1) HTML is so forgiven for mistakes done by the user
2) HTML has a very small set of tags & rules to deal with
Remember that HTML is a subset of SGML. This was done intentionally so that the "average" user can start using it immediately (and in this case the average user were in fact profesional computer users doing research at a University.)
So if LaTeX is ever going to be used for the web it must first get adopted by the community at large -- given that SGML was not adopted, I don't see LaTeX having any chance.
Here is a little game for you to try out. Take the above essay and replace every reference to Bush and replace it with Clinton, and Gore and you will see how nicely the story fits.
To be fair to Intel or any other company that has grown, as fast as Intel has, and to the size of Intel -- be it in the computer or other industry -- those companies are bound to make such mistakes. In fact ALL companies do.
The trouble for Intel however (or related companies) is that any move they take, be it good or bad, is under watch; and sadly, the media and the public is interested more in "bad" news than "good" news and many times we make fun of those "bad" news as given in this posting.
I am sure if one looks around, such "bad" moves would be found with many and many other small no name companies -- but than no one is interested about those no name companies, so why bother poke at them.
Such is life. Some times I feel sorry for those at the top and yet we all have a desire to be at the top.:-)
It is sad but true. Using Exchange & Outlook, users of the system end up getting more from it.
With Exchange's calendar, scheduling, public folder, etc. users' not only are reading and replying to emails, they are also collaborating, checking schedules, booking rooms for meeting, and yes, browsing the web, to name some of the things that you can do from within Outlook, when Exchange is the server.
So as you can see, Exchange gives you a workflow, something that many organizations are looking to do -- and this workflow translate to VALUE for your average user.
"On Freenet, popular information becomes more widely distributed, which means that you're not going to get what some people call "the slashdot effect," whereby an extremely popular piece of information becomes unavailable. The availability of information on Freenet increases in proportion to its popularity."
While this is true, the flip side of it is that we now end up with a HUGE redundent duplicates -- which must be cleaned up.
The same argument was said 100s of years ago about "paper voting" that people can "fake in additional paper votes" rather than actual vote of "rasing your hand and counting those hand right on the spot"
So in time, those "hard" copies will be just anotehr "hard-electrons"
Thinks forwared not backward BUT look backward as you move forward.:-)
I can't see how this PCI card would replace TV. The largest monitor today is 21" and at the cost of $900+ So lets do a little math.
$900+ for monitor
$400 for PCI card
$600+ for computer
--------
$1900+ for a HDTV to be watched on a 21" monitor.
Well, this is just too expencive for your average home user. At that price most home users would get the HDTV on a Sony flat screen TV at 36" and actualy be able to do something with it such as use it.
Folks, it's time to stop craming everthing in one thing and try to be everything for everyone.
The other one I've seen is AT&T signing a contract with someone -- there were restrictions, but it's still troubling to see people's appetites for money overwhelming their ability to discern good vs. bad business practices.
Just like any other industry, early in its days, and is trying to discover itself, "good" or "bad" is in the eye of the beholder.
I can see that most of/. readers and posters are technical folks, but please it's time to think about this as a "solution" for the average Joe that uses the computer.
Run around your office and tell me how many people known what is a local or remote hard-drive? Only developers will understand it -- and tell you what, there are many developers don't konwn the difference either.
If your average Joe wants to write a letter/paper, why should s/he need to known about a word processer's instalation and setup? This is no difference to the average Joe wanting to drive from point A to point B -- in this case why would average Joe want to known what type of compresser the car has, what the batter spec is, etc. etc. -- the average Joe wants to get to point B and not have to wary about configuring his car to do so.
The same thing with what M$.Net M$ is targeting the remaning vast majority of non-computer users and those who are beginers.
This is the idea behind.NET -- it is no different than what Sun and Oracle were tyring to do. What I fear is that M$ will success.
This report by Gartner Group, in my view, is flaw. By 2005, the majority of users will treat the OS in the same way as they treat virtual memory today -- i.e.: they will ignore it and not known that it exist.
Application and "agents" are all that will matter.
All of those suggestions that have been posted on/. are good -- however one suggestion that I have not seen is educating your user AND constantly reminding them about it.
This simple, inexpensive practice can go a long.
-- George
Slashdot Mirror
Once something becomes part of our lives and history, changing it is very, very and I mean very difficult.
Believe it or not, making the people of earth (lets ignore other planets for now shall we) to believe and use ONE religious is much more simpler than adopting the 13 month calendar.
...you can tell me how Sadam is going to *netowrk* those PS2?!
I suggest he uses a 300B modems -- that will surly alow him to keep up to speed with his missles.
Hey, maybe Sadam is willing to buy some of my 8mm tapes for backup. Any suggestion how much I should be asking?!!
I don't like this a bit. This makes it sound as if Java is "the" langue for OO and everything else has to do with programming - a very bad message to send. The fact is, each problem has its own needs and langue to be used.
If you are familiar with Knuth's books, than you must be familiar with his customized programming language (sorry I don't remember its name off the top of my head.) I prefer the use of such language (maybe extend on Knuth's) to cover OO.
-- George
Using Java (or any other similar language) has a "good" side and a "bad" side.
GOOD: this means that students will code at OO and "business level" to solve a "business" problem.
BAD: this means that you won't known much what is happening "under the hood"
If you are familiar with Kanuth's books and the language that he uses, I preface to see Kanuth's language extended to use OO. This way you cover all grounds.
-- George
A lot of good post - I am impressed but I wander what % of those posters "do upon themselves/others as they do upon others/themselves." That is, do you practice what you perish?!! :-)
I haven't read the book, but from the review and posting(s) on it, it sound like the book is entirely about the "Renaissance" and the "print". If so than I am not interested. But I have the following question:
what about the "have" and the "have-not" when it comes to tech.?!
Does the book address this? If not, this is one area where tech. end up dividing people and causing a lot of trouble. Just take a look at 3rd word countries and tell me this is not so if we continue on the current path.
If an application written in GNOME runs on Windows with a different look-and-feel than the current Windows UI, than expect Windows users to reject it. Lotus and Borland are good example. A while ago, those two companies wrote their applications on Windows by "re-inventing" the UI (they had their own menus, buttons, etc.) As a result users were annoyed to use the applications and thus, they died out. This is why I don't see much "value" in projects like those other than being "cool". If that is what Open Source and Linux is targeting, working on "cool" projects, than it should stop calling M$ the "evil empire" and stop the "war". This is why I repeated the word "war" in my posting. "cool" project are just that, "cool", but the market wants "value" so that's where my money is. -- George
While your comment is "right on" with what the /. readers at large want, it also contradict with the majority of the /. posters.
/. posters at large often cite they want to do) than our focus must be on creating "value" rather than "cool" projects if we are going to win.
Look at it this way: 15-20 years ago when consumers went to a car dealer, the car dealer (or TV add) talked to the consumer about the car's technology such as: what is the horse power, how often do I have to tune-it-up, is it fuel injection, how many sparks dose it have, etc. etc. Today, NONE of those are mentioned out. Just look at the TV adds, you will see that the adds are about "values" such as: comes with "on-star", customizable driver setting, automatic "spin" prevention, etc., etc.
So yes, while this project "was done in 1.5 weeks by ON PERSON" and I congratulate the person, (I am not against what he did) I still stand with my earlier statement: if Linux and Open Source is ever going to win over MS (which is what
-- George
OK folks. While the end result of this project is "cool" I fail to see the "value" that the end user will get from it.
I mean, do you think the Windows user is willing to learn yet-another-UI that sits next to the Windows UI?!!! Yes the technical group will be excited about this (as I am) but we make up only the very small % of the users at large.
Folks, call me crazy, but as long as Linux and the Open Source community keep there focus ENTIRELY on "cool" and technical-only-oriented projects, we will never be able to convince the Windows user to switch nor are we going to win new users.
Beside, the war is no longer againts MS's OS, it is now with MS's application as well as AOL's content offering.
-- George
Once we switch to the 10 dig system, I could end up dialing the FPI in another state (by miss-dialing one number) where my intention was to dial my local pizza shop -- please don't get me started that you never miss-dialed.
With the 7 digit system, I like the fact that I have a *clue* about where my call is landing. I.e.: there is '1' and 'area-code' so I *known* that I am making a) long distance call & b) out-of-stat/zone call. Will that info. still be with us with a 10 digit number?
-- George
If you sit back and think why HTML is so widely used, you will see two important factors:
1) HTML is so forgiven for mistakes done by the user
2) HTML has a very small set of tags & rules to deal with
Remember that HTML is a subset of SGML. This was done intentionally so that the "average" user can start using it immediately (and in this case the average user were in fact profesional computer users doing research at a University.)
So if LaTeX is ever going to be used for the web it must first get adopted by the community at large -- given that SGML was not adopted, I don't see LaTeX having any chance.
-- George
Either /. posted a false article with no credibility or Transmeta is about to learn what it takes to play with the big-boz.
Either way this is not a good news.
-- George
I love stuff like this.
Here is a little game for you to try out. Take the above essay and replace every reference to Bush and replace it with Clinton, and Gore and you will see how nicely the story fits.
-- George
To be fair to Intel or any other company that has grown, as fast as Intel has, and to the size of Intel -- be it in the computer or other industry -- those companies are bound to make such mistakes. In fact ALL companies do.
:-)
The trouble for Intel however (or related companies) is that any move they take, be it good or bad, is under watch; and sadly, the media and the public is interested more in "bad" news than "good" news and many times we make fun of those "bad" news as given in this posting.
I am sure if one looks around, such "bad" moves would be found with many and many other small no name companies -- but than no one is interested about those no name companies, so why bother poke at them.
Such is life. Some times I feel sorry for those at the top and yet we all have a desire to be at the top.
-- George
The way I see it, this is Linux version 1.0 -- which is a very oooollld story. :-)
Congratulation to the familay!
-- George
It is sad but true. Using Exchange & Outlook, users of the system end up getting more from it.
With Exchange's calendar, scheduling, public folder, etc. users' not only are reading and replying to emails, they are also collaborating, checking schedules, booking rooms for meeting, and yes, browsing the web, to name some of the things that you can do from within Outlook, when Exchange is the server.
So as you can see, Exchange gives you a workflow, something that many organizations are looking to do -- and this workflow translate to VALUE for your average user.
-- George
"On Freenet, popular information becomes more widely distributed, which means that you're not going to get what some people call "the slashdot effect," whereby an extremely popular piece of information becomes unavailable. The availability of information on Freenet increases in proportion to its popularity."
While this is true, the flip side of it is that we now end up with a HUGE redundent duplicates -- which must be cleaned up.
-- George
The same argument was said 100s of years ago about "paper voting" that people can "fake in additional paper votes" rather than actual vote of "rasing your hand and counting those hand right on the spot"
:-)
So in time, those "hard" copies will be just anotehr "hard-electrons"
Thinks forwared not backward BUT look backward as you move forward.
-- George
I can't see how this PCI card would replace TV. The largest monitor today is 21" and at the cost of $900+ So lets do a little math.
$900+ for monitor
$400 for PCI card
$600+ for computer
--------
$1900+ for a HDTV to be watched on a 21" monitor.
Well, this is just too expencive for your average home user. At that price most home users would get the HDTV on a Sony flat screen TV at 36" and actualy be able to do something with it such as use it.
Folks, it's time to stop craming everthing in one thing and try to be everything for everyone.
-- George
The other one I've seen is AT&T signing a contract with someone -- there were restrictions, but it's still troubling to see people's appetites for money overwhelming their ability to discern good vs. bad business practices.
Just like any other industry, early in its days, and is trying to discover itself, "good" or "bad" is in the eye of the beholder.
-- George
... Soft. Eng. is an _art_.
-- George
Moderater please moderte this up!
/. readers and posters are technical folks, but please it's time to think about this as a "solution" for the average Joe that uses the computer.
.NET -- it is no different than what Sun and Oracle were tyring to do. What I fear is that M$ will success.
People, please!!!
I can see that most of
Run around your office and tell me how many people known what is a local or remote hard-drive? Only developers will understand it -- and tell you what, there are many developers don't konwn the difference either.
If your average Joe wants to write a letter/paper, why should s/he need to known about a word processer's instalation and setup? This is no difference to the average Joe wanting to drive from point A to point B -- in this case why would average Joe want to known what type of compresser the car has, what the batter spec is, etc. etc. -- the average Joe wants to get to point B and not have to wary about configuring his car to do so.
The same thing with what M$.Net M$ is targeting the remaning vast majority of non-computer users and those who are beginers.
This is the idea behind
-- George
This report by Gartner Group, in my view, is flaw. By 2005, the majority of users will treat the OS in the same way as they treat virtual memory today -- i.e.: they will ignore it and not known that it exist.
Application and "agents" are all that will matter.
-- George
because he is the first one on your poll list. :)
-- George
All of those suggestions that have been posted on /. are good -- however one suggestion that I have not seen is educating your user AND constantly reminding them about it.
This simple, inexpensive practice can go a long.
-- George