The SPDY whitepaper suggest an keep alive timeout of 500ms while most sites do 5 to 20 seconds ?
No wonder why they think they are going to be so fast;-)
Seriously although, I still see the point of this protocol but it might have been over-hyped a bit. Established things are hard to change without revolutionary gains to be expected.
Single request per connection. Because HTTP can only fetch one resource at a time (HTTP pipelining helps, but still enforces only a FIFO queue), a server delay of 500 ms prevents reuse of the TCP channel for additional requests. Browsers work around this problem by using multiple connections. Since 2008, most browsers have finally moved from 2 connections per domain to 6.
SPDY solves *a* problem, but not *the* problem. The root of the problem today is that loading a simple web page requires 20 or more separate connections: images, ad networks, tracking systems, social network links, 3rd party comment systems, javascript libraries, css, etc. Somehow all of that content needs to be coalesced into fewer connections.
You are wrong use netstat and a modern browser to test it out. With servers configured to do HTTP request keepalives, most browser open a maximum of 2 connections to one server and keep them up and everything is sent through those persistent connections.
The browser also needs to open at least one connection to any third party server without regards for the protocol used.
I see an average of 5 to 20 seconds timeout on most sites. The the server waits for other requests on the SAME connection. Use telnet and watch for the "close connection" delay after entering the query:
telnet www.yahoo.com 80 Trying 98.139.183.24... Connected to www.yahoo.com. Escape character is '^]'. HEAD / HTTP/1.1 host: yahoo.com
Funny, along the same path, I ripped a pair sennheisers apart and installed them in a headpiece to practice shooting firearms or operating heavy and and noisy machinery. They are basically the same. Perfect noise isolation. I use them to record drums so I can't hear the drums directly, only the feedback from the headphones...
sure watson, and shutting down/turning on your tv/computer or just a light bulb a bazillion time a day won't make it wear any faster because no dilation of material occurs and dilation prevents wearing it out anyway...
Well, shutting your car down and powering it up excessively will cause a car gas engine to wear faster since it is generally accepted that an important part of a car engine wear occurs when you power it up. For a short period, oil isn't evenly distributed and this cause excessive wear and stress compared to while it is running smootly.
For the rest things like: -"not shutting your water heater when you leave for 3 months will save you money because it will cost more in the end to eat the water when you get back" -"it cost less in fuel or electricity to leave and engine running because restarting it will burn so much more -fuel/electricity" etc. etc. are mostly urban legend.
Nowadays, almost every big provider is using the word "cloud" to offer small to medium companies managed services and they even propose it to bigger corporations. "The cloud" is a lot more convenient for them because it means that you do not know where your data is located.
As for "the cloud is meaningless", well not exactly, it is just less precise. You could say: -The Ford engine blew up -The Mercedes-Benz engine blew up or just: The engine blew up
Same for the cloud: -The Google cloud -The Amazon cloud or just: the cloud
Plus what is telling you they do not have peering agreement to use each other resources and both save money on operating cost ?;-) http://xkcd.com/908/
Note that underground where you are located during a quake is important in relation to how you feel it.
My house was located and it had its foundations on a rock mountain during a quake and I only felt it for about half a second, like if I had been moved a few inches then back to my position. Nothing fell in the house or was broken.
A friend of mine living 3 miles away at a less elevated altitude where the rock is covered with a tick layer of dirt that behaves like jello during a quake felt the same quake for 1 minute. He had to hold to his aquarium so it wouldn't fall off its stand and he had stuff falling down to the floor in his house. The next day, newspaper had pictures of stores in his immediate area with stuff that had fallen off shelves so it wasn't my friend trying to kid me;-)
Epicenter was about 150 miles away. So you may fell the quake quite differently depending on the underground where you stand, even if the distance is negligible compared to the epicenter distance.
Depends how much numbers you have to crunch. I do not know Google architecture well enough to tell, but typically, x86 systems crumble under IO not lack of CPU cycles. Seti or distributed.net use cases are rather seldom.
Damn it guys, intelligent phones and what not that drive me crazy when everybody on the train look like silly ants typing endlessly on their tiny devices and now source control that integrates or offer similar functionality than Facebook ???
I am putting a hold on our upgrade from CVS to Subversion project just in case, this sounds just too scary for me;-)
Then, what if you only want to push/commit parts of the change you made in a given file then ? The foundation of the problem you mentioned seems unsolvable.
I would say that ultimately it depends on how you organize your work. One way to organize your work would be to create branches for changes you make with each branch specific to a given bug report, change request or what not. The problem in your view would be that you will still need to merge anyways.
I think merging and branches end up being a must in most large scale project. Getting yourself a repository admin that manages the branches is usually a good idea. No need for a full time person, one of the developer or another team member can be given this responsibility.
Slashdot Mirror
And don't forget to ask Tony's permission before changing anything garbage related in NYC just to prevent any kind of misunderstanding.
The SPDY whitepaper suggest an keep alive timeout of 500ms while most sites do 5 to 20 seconds ?
No wonder why they think they are going to be so fast ;-)
Seriously although, I still see the point of this protocol but it might have been over-hyped a bit. Established things are hard to change without revolutionary gains to be expected.
http://www.chromium.org/spdy/spdy-whitepaper
Single request per connection. Because HTTP can only fetch one resource at a time (HTTP pipelining helps, but still enforces only a FIFO queue), a server delay of 500 ms prevents reuse of the TCP channel for additional requests. Browsers work around this problem by using multiple connections. Since 2008, most browsers have finally moved from 2 connections per domain to 6.
SPDY solves *a* problem, but not *the* problem. The root of the problem today is that loading a simple web page requires 20 or more separate connections: images, ad networks, tracking systems, social network links, 3rd party comment systems, javascript libraries, css, etc. Somehow all of that content needs to be coalesced into fewer connections.
You are wrong use netstat and a modern browser to test it out. With servers configured to do HTTP request keepalives, most browser open a maximum of 2 connections to one server and keep them up and everything is sent through those persistent connections.
The browser also needs to open at least one connection to any third party server without regards for the protocol used.
I see an average of 5 to 20 seconds timeout on most sites. The the server waits for other requests on the SAME connection. Use telnet and watch for the "close connection" delay after entering the query:
telnet www.yahoo.com 80
Trying 98.139.183.24...
Connected to www.yahoo.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
HEAD / HTTP/1.1
host: yahoo.com
HTTP/1.1 301 Moved Permanently
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2012 18:49:19 GMT
Location: http://www.yahoo.com/
Vary: Accept-Encoding
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Cache-Control: private
Age: 0
Connection: keep-alive
Server: YTS/1.20.10
Connection closed by foreign host.
Yahoo's server took about fifteen seconds to close the connection.
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.4/mod/core.html#keepalivetimeout
Funny, along the same path, I ripped a pair sennheisers apart and installed them in a headpiece to practice shooting firearms or operating heavy and and noisy machinery. They are basically the same. Perfect noise isolation. I use them to record drums so I can't hear the drums directly, only the feedback from the headphones...
Sorry, no video available.
It is still nice to remember the old UUCP mail back in those days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUCP#UUCP_for_mail_routing
I will let others debate who really invented email. You have a point there although...
damn I mean I did NOT know...
I did know what it was myself so here is a link for the lazy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
INTIF2=vmnet1
PORTFWIP2=192.168.4.38
$IPTABLES -A rule_j14 -m limit --limit 120/minute --limit-burst 50 -j ACCEPT
$IPTABLES -A rule_j14 -m limit --limit 1/minute -j LOG --log-prefix "wharf"
$IPTABLES -A rule_j14 -j DROP
let i=0
while [ $i -lt $EXTIF_LIST_SIZE ]
do
for redirport in 25 587 995 21 113 22 563 119
do
$IPTABLES -A INPUT -i ${EXTIF_LIST[i]} -p tcp --dport ${redirport} \
-m state --state NEW -m limit --limit 1/minute \
-j LOG --log-prefix "wharf wharf"
$IPTABLES -A INPUT -i ${EXTIF_LIST[i]} -p tcp --dport ${redirport} \
-m state --state NEW -j DROP
$IPTABLES -A FORWARD -i ${EXTIF_LIST[i]} -o $INTIF2 -d ${MAIL_FW_IP[i]} -p tcp \
--dport $redirport -m state --state NEW -j rule_j14
$IPTABLES -A FORWARD -i ${EXTIF_LIST[i]} -o $INTIF2 -d ${MAIL_FW_IP[i]} -p tcp \
--dport $redirport -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT
$IPTABLES -A PREROUTING -t nat -p tcp -d ${EXTIP_LIST[i]} --dport $redirport \
-m state --state NEW -m hashlimit --hashlimit 60/hour --hashlimit-burst 15 \
--hashlimit-htable-expire 3600000 --hashlimit-mode srcip,dstport \
--hashlimit-name j14-${redirport} \
-j DNAT --to ${MAIL_FW_IP[i]}:$redirport
done
let i=$i+1
done
On the other end, I assume people in Anchorage might enjoy warmer climate and palm trees ;-)
even a more generic principle: changing the state of a system doesn't cause any wear ;-)
sure watson, and shutting down/turning on your tv/computer or just a light bulb a bazillion time a day won't make it wear any faster because no dilation of material occurs and dilation prevents wearing it out anyway...
yep but they didn't uploaded the file to pirate bay, only to peers... last I looked, this is how peer to peer works...
hmm..... price of fuel vs price to replace a worn engine ?
plus you definitely need a different battery I would assume...
This is just a patch to cope with fuel running out. I wouldn't believe that as easily as "not anymore" ;-)
Maybe he is going to feed /. comments in his supercomputer and have it do just that...
Well, shutting your car down and powering it up excessively will cause a car gas engine to wear faster since it is generally accepted that an important part of a car engine wear occurs when you power it up. For a short period, oil isn't evenly distributed and this cause excessive wear and stress compared to while it is running smootly.
For the rest things like:
-"not shutting your water heater when you leave for 3 months will save you money because it will cost more in the end to eat the water when you get back"
-"it cost less in fuel or electricity to leave and engine running because restarting it will burn so much more -fuel/electricity"
etc. etc.
are mostly urban legend.
Maybe he is, I have always assumed that on Slashdot, nicknames like "webmistressrachel" could very well be owned by males ;-)
Nowadays, almost every big provider is using the word "cloud" to offer small to medium companies managed services and they even propose it to bigger corporations. "The cloud" is a lot more convenient for them because it means that you do not know where your data is located.
As for "the cloud is meaningless", well not exactly, it is just less precise. You could say:
-The Ford engine blew up
-The Mercedes-Benz engine blew up
or just: The engine blew up
Same for the cloud:
-The Google cloud
-The Amazon cloud
or just: the cloud
Plus what is telling you they do not have peering agreement to use each other resources and both save money on operating cost ? ;-)
http://xkcd.com/908/
It's a startup maybe they are really using the cloud...
> data in, data out, data update, data delete, data sort, data report,
sounds like a typical use case for a robot scanning the oceans...
Note that underground where you are located during a quake is important in relation to how you feel it.
My house was located and it had its foundations on a rock mountain during a quake and I only felt it for about half a second, like if I had been moved a few inches then back to my position. Nothing fell in the house or was broken.
A friend of mine living 3 miles away at a less elevated altitude where the rock is covered with a tick layer of dirt that behaves like jello during a quake felt the same quake for 1 minute. He had to hold to his aquarium so it wouldn't fall off its stand and he had stuff falling down to the floor in his house. The next day, newspaper had pictures of stores in his immediate area with stuff that had fallen off shelves so it wasn't my friend trying to kid me ;-)
Epicenter was about 150 miles away. So you may fell the quake quite differently depending on the underground where you stand, even if the distance is negligible compared to the epicenter distance.
Not sure if many people got you, but here is what I was going to write before reading your post:
> a troll with the output from a tracert
Were you trying to trace his certificate ?
I am just kidding of course but yet, for some of us around here the command is written as; "traceroute".
Depends how much numbers you have to crunch. I do not know Google architecture well enough to tell, but typically, x86 systems crumble under IO not lack of CPU cycles. Seti or distributed.net use cases are rather seldom.
Damn it guys, intelligent phones and what not that drive me crazy when everybody on the train look like silly ants typing endlessly on their tiny devices and now source control that integrates or offer similar functionality than Facebook ???
I am putting a hold on our upgrade from CVS to Subversion project just in case, this sounds just too scary for me ;-)
Then, what if you only want to push/commit parts of the change you made in a given file then ? The foundation of the problem you mentioned seems unsolvable.
I would say that ultimately it depends on how you organize your work. One way to organize your work would be to create branches for changes you make with each branch specific to a given bug report, change request or what not. The problem in your view would be that you will still need to merge anyways.
I think merging and branches end up being a must in most large scale project. Getting yourself a repository admin that manages the branches is usually a good idea. No need for a full time person, one of the developer or another team member can be given this responsibility.
and saturnial is even better of course although I hear that aluminiumal is doing well too ;-)