I didn't state my opinion of EULA's in my posts (look again, it's not there), but I agree that they're weak legally.But, if that's the case, so is your's.
In that case, I oplogise for putting words in your mouth.
Yes, I agree, that if one form of EULA is weak (I know they are), then my uber-EULLA is equally weak.
You may hold a different opinion, but opinons don't count in issues like this.
I went down the hall to our contract attourney, and he read a bit of the thread and basicall agreed with me. The gist is that all EULA are pretty much have been held to be invalid because they attempt to alter the sale contract without consideraion.
You county may differ than the US, but here in case after case, egrigious cluases in EULA type documents, signs and such have been unenforcable - especually when there is no considersion.
You're attempting to alter the responsibilities of a seller after the transaction is complete.
I sorry, but you're wrong - the transaction takes place when money is exchanged for producet, and not at instation time.
Nice try. Did those evil companies receive and agree with your EULA before you bought their product?
I never, "received or agreed" to their EULA before purchase.
What's good for the one party, is good for all parties.
If they feel that their EULA is valid because I implicitly agreed to it by clicking a mouse*, then I my EULA is vaild because their software installed itself on my computer.
*there is no record, admissable in court, that I ever clicked or did not-click throught their EULA. In fact, I don't remember ever needing to do anything of the sort. (hint hint).
My EULA states allowing others to access the system remotley in order to avoid purchasing a license is a violation. So you'll need a license for every desktop which will access the system.
I have my own EULA that all software companied implicitly agree to bt runnin on one of my compuers, it stated the following:
In excange for money, and by use on this computer, the software company agrees to, and warrants, the folowing:
This agreement superceses all previsous agreements.
This software is sold, and not leased or licensed.
This software is a product and is fit for the use it it advertised for.
This agreement does not superved any copy-rights tha software company may have on this product.
The software can be resold, transfered or duplicate under the same laws and regulations that govern the sale, transfer and duplication of published books.
So there, my EULA trumps their EULA because they agreed to it by running on my computer.
If a 'click though' EULA is good for them, it's better for me!
I know you're joking, but I'll add this: If you carefully read the GPL - I only have to release the source to people who I gave the origional copy to. As a curtesy, most GPL software is reaseled freely with source, but one doesen't have to do it. Only to the orgional downloaders, and then even, I could charge a reasonable copying fee to cover costs.
Destructive behavior isn't cool, no matter who you think you're targeting.
I understand your sentiments - that's why I don't do it anymore.
However, I have no sympathy for people who think they are breaking into a sytem and copying somthing that isen't theirs. I really don't.
I reason I stoped doing this,was that it became possible that some boradband users could accidently find the honeypot through normall use of windows networking. I only wanted to hurt the jerks, and not people who were just curious.
On one of my OpenBSD firewalls, I use to have a samba share that had only one file: Porn-and-Passwords.zip.exe. I was new to Unix - so at the time, I had a small script that would check to see if the file count had gone up (indecating that someone was downloading it) and would schedule a network interface shutdown and restart on our DHCP broadband connection.
The Porn-and-Passworkds.zip.exe was a huge file filled with garbage, that when run on a windows box would write garbage to the hard drive in random areas.
I figgured that 'leet Windows HAX0RS deserved it.
The funny part: It was my first (and only) GPL violation. I broght in some random number code in from a GPL'ed library, and I rudly diden't offer the source on the Samba share.
So if you donloaded Porn-and-Passwordx.zip.exe - send a reply and I'll get the source to you.
crowds of zealots with their anti-Microsoft sentiment in hand, ready to propogare their GNU agenda.
I agree - It's terrible!
I met this GNU/Linux guy, and he wanted to give mt a disk with over 5000 peer-reviewed, stable and interesting peices of software. And get this, the fucker even tried to give me the source code!
The trouble with licensing iseen't the result - it's the requirements to get the license.
What sounds reasonable:
A) To get a licence, you must pass a really difficult test and demonstrate,in an interview, your expertice.
B) To get a licence, you must spend 3 years in any crappy shool of your choice and work for 7 years of in the field,in any crappy compay of your choice.
For smart people like you, you'd rather hit the books and choose A. Unfortunatly most licensing requiremnts are closer to B.
My brain has an almost infinate capacity for knowledge*, but I onoy have 40 more years on this earth. I should not have to spend 10 years of my life in drudgery to get another license, when I could quickly learn enough in a year, with concentration, to pass a difficult test.
The reason that Mac products don't bode well with Microsoft stuff is not because Macs have a problem dealing with Microsoft but because Microsoft has a problem with dealing with everything else.
Hell! Microcost has a problem with itself!
You can't Microsoft Windows 95 box to share files with a New Microsoft Pocket PC!
And both products come from Microsoft!
Hell Windows 95 isen't even seven years old, and they doen't even suport it.
That's silly. Mac users buying Virtual PC buy a copy of Windows, too.
But Microsoft wants controll - If they can get 10,000 people to move back to Windows by killing the Mac version, they'll do it.
They thing that iff they can maintain controll of the desktop, they can leverage it in the Server market.
Fortunatly - Microsoft's server and other products are so horrible that people rather use Samba, Netware, FTP, hell anthing that runs, just to stay away from Windows as a server.
* Finite State Machines
* Graph Theory
* Numerical Analysis
Hey! I've never had to do that sort of thinking with Windows Visual Basic.NET. Obvioulsy, you should spend a little and get the right tool for the job - VB.NET makes everything easy! VB.NET handles all the hard stuff for you - like strings and arrays. You can even do 3 dimentional arrays! That's power and ease for you!
Why just the other day, I was getting stuck declaring a variable, and was just sitting there pondering, and all of a sudden this really smart paper-clip comes up and says "It looks like you're defining a variable!" - He was really helpfull!
Try VB.NET and you be a much more productive prorammer with only 5% of all that difficult thinking!
(I reposted this because some stupid modaraotor flagged my original as flamebait - it's supposed to be a joke. Maby a poor joke, but that's another issue)
Even easier - download Knoppix, Burn the ISO and boot off the Knoppix CD.
Presto!
It even mounts all the FAT/NTFS partitions and puts little icons on the KDE desktop for you. Click, browse and copy!
(Knoppix is a rather full Linux x86 distribution that boots off of a CD and doesen't need any hard drive to work. You get a greay KDE desktop and a lot of tools.)
* Finite State Machines
* Graph Theory
* Numerical Analysis
Hey! I've never had to do that sort of thinking with Windows Visual Basic.NET. Obvioulsy, you should spend a little and get the right tool for the job - VB.NET makes everything easy! VB.NET handles all the hard stuff for you - like strings and arrays. You can even do 3 dimentional arrays! That's power and ease for you!
Why just the other day, I was getting stuck declaring a variable, and was just sitting there pondering, and all of a sudden this really smart paper-clip comes up and says "It looks like you're defining a variable!" - He was really helpfull!
Try VB.NET and you be a much more productive prorammer with only 5% of all that difficult thinking!
..... unless they had something to do with its release.
I have wondered why a lot of these Microsoft-worms never seem to have a destructive payload. If you imagine a script-kiddie working hard in his mom's basement, you'd think he'd add a payload of some sort.
(hell, if I had the inclenation and the time to create a virus, I'd atleast change the Windows statup.JPG to the 'gentleman who is affiliated with goats.')
It's almost like these Microsoft-worms were desingned to create panic and purchasing action, but no legalally actionable damage.
Why are you modding this troll up? Can the next moderation-happy person actually READ that this guy is suggesting to GET RID OF RETARDED CHILDREN (something about room with spikes in the follow up).
Good greif, sombody needs to lay off the crack pipe for a while.
As for delinquents, discipline them young, while they still have a chance. Keep them away from soft-headed social workers and apply some corporal discipline where it's needed. The last thing I want or need is for these kids to get light treatment until they turn 18, whereupon they get thrown in prison (cirminal university) for something that used to get them two weeks in the county lockup. When you think about it, it makes no sense.
I agree fully. And odlly - almost everybody else that I know agrees with this sentiment, and yet, as a county, we constantly choose to coddle the little brats.
A mother can't spank her child in public for rear of the abuse-police.
My parent's, on occasion, spanked me raw - an I have thanked them for it. It kept me from doing a lot of stupid things with my life. I doubt I would be the person I am today if my parents diden't care enought to lay down the law.
I feel truly sorry for the childen who don't get the benifit of caring, thoughfull and smart parents.
So I have a new idea- we get all the parents of the children you're referring to, and your good self, and put them in this large room. We tell the parents what you suggested regarding their children.
Woah! Are you clever! Turn the tables around! Wow! I bow down to your superior intelect.
"get rid" of retarded children? what kind of coldhearted bastard are you?
No, that's easy. We let them sort themselves out.
Every 1'st grade class, for it's first day, gets to spend the day in the "giant-room."
This:giant-room" is fucking huge - it's 10,000 sq feet huge. A small section of the room has a pit of sharp spikes with a warning sign above it - "Pit of Spikes Will Kill You!".
The children are ushered in on the side of the room away from the pit of spikes, and get to spend the entire day in the room. Away from the pit of spikes are the bathrooms and eating facilities.
The stupid children fall into the pit of spikes.
The smart ones stay away.
If you're too stupid to fall into a pit of spikes, we'll, good ridance.
And where do you suppose these retarded and disruptive children will go? Cutting the bottom tail of the curve only gives the appearance higher quality by increasing the average grade but in actuality changes nothing. In addition, I don't see how banning 'team sports' helps your argument.
The bigest part of my solution (fire half the administrators) is 70% of the problem, the rest are niggeling points.
I just don't think retards and delenquents belong in socioty, let alone in the classroom where they help destroy the education of decent people. Wherehouse them - that's what we end up doing anyways. They don't seem to mind - they have no real minds to begin with. The less money we spend on them the better.
And tax the shit out of parents of disruptive children - their crappy parenting deserves punishment.
AFAIK, 'team sports' - football, baseball et al are a money drain on our shools and help perpetuate a way of life I find disagreeable - Image is imortant, self-acheivments is worthless, respect authority (the coach), bla bla bla. Teach kids to scuba-dive, fly, or climb mountains and I think we'd be better off.
Anways - theses are just niggleing point. Either way, it doesen't matter. Right now, education is being crushed by too much administration.
There are budget cuts happening all over California. They're coming in public schools
Good. There is olny a faint coralation between spending and quality of education.
Germany and Japan spend less, per child, on education and they both kick our asses.
Short answer: fire half of the school administrators, get rid of the retarded children, raise teacher saleries, get rid of the 'team sports', and ban disruptive children permently.
That would solve most of our problems in our education system and we'd end up spending less.
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I didn't state my opinion of EULA's in my posts (look again, it's not there), but I agree that they're weak legally.But, if that's the case, so is your's.
In that case, I oplogise for putting words in your mouth.
Yes, I agree, that if one form of EULA is weak (I know they are), then my uber-EULLA is equally weak.
Just fighting fire with fire.
You may hold a different opinion, but opinons don't count in issues like this.
I went down the hall to our contract attourney, and he read a bit of the thread and basicall agreed with me. The gist is that all EULA are pretty much have been held to be invalid because they attempt to alter the sale contract without consideraion.
You county may differ than the US, but here in case after case, egrigious cluases in EULA type documents, signs and such have been unenforcable - especually when there is no considersion.
You're attempting to alter the responsibilities of a seller after the transaction is complete.
I sorry, but you're wrong - the transaction takes place when money is exchanged for producet, and not at instation time.
Nice try. Did those evil companies receive and agree with your EULA before you bought their product?
I never, "received or agreed" to their EULA before purchase.
What's good for the one party, is good for all parties.
If they feel that their EULA is valid because I implicitly agreed to it by clicking a mouse*, then I my EULA is vaild because their software installed itself on my computer.
*there is no record, admissable in court, that I ever clicked or did not-click throught their EULA. In fact, I don't remember ever needing to do anything of the sort. (hint hint).
My EULA states allowing others to access the system remotley in order to avoid purchasing a license is a violation. So you'll need a license for every desktop which will access the system.
I have my own EULA that all software companied implicitly agree to bt runnin on one of my compuers, it stated the following:
In excange for money, and by use on this computer, the software company agrees to, and warrants, the folowing:
This agreement superceses all previsous agreements.
This software is sold, and not leased or licensed.
This software is a product and is fit for the use it it advertised for.
This agreement does not superved any copy-rights tha software company may have on this product.
The software can be resold, transfered or duplicate under the same laws and regulations that govern the sale, transfer and duplication of published books.
So there, my EULA trumps their EULA because they agreed to it by running on my computer.
If a 'click though' EULA is good for them, it's better for me!
HA!
I'll tell RMS if you don't release the source!
I know you're joking, but I'll add this: If you carefully read the GPL - I only have to release the source to people who I gave the origional copy to. As a curtesy, most GPL software is reaseled freely with source, but one doesen't have to do it. Only to the orgional downloaders, and then even, I could charge a reasonable copying fee to cover costs.
Destructive behavior isn't cool, no matter who you think you're targeting.
I understand your sentiments - that's why I don't do it anymore.
However, I have no sympathy for people who think they are breaking into a sytem and copying somthing that isen't theirs. I really don't.
I reason I stoped doing this,was that it became possible that some boradband users could accidently find the honeypot through normall use of windows networking. I only wanted to hurt the jerks, and not people who were just curious.
On one of my OpenBSD firewalls, I use to have a samba share that had only one file: Porn-and-Passwords.zip.exe. I was new to Unix - so at the time, I had a small script that would check to see if the file count had gone up (indecating that someone was downloading it) and would schedule a network interface shutdown and restart on our DHCP broadband connection.
The Porn-and-Passworkds.zip.exe was a huge file filled with garbage, that when run on a windows box would write garbage to the hard drive in random areas.
I figgured that 'leet Windows HAX0RS deserved it.
The funny part: It was my first (and only) GPL violation. I broght in some random number code in from a GPL'ed library, and I rudly diden't offer the source on the Samba share.
So if you donloaded Porn-and-Passwordx.zip.exe - send a reply and I'll get the source to you.
crowds of zealots with their anti-Microsoft sentiment in hand, ready to propogare their GNU agenda.
I agree - It's terrible!
I met this GNU/Linux guy, and he wanted to give mt a disk with over 5000 peer-reviewed, stable and interesting peices of software. And get this, the fucker even tried to give me the source code!
God, I hate those GNU bastards.
I hide all sorts of stuff in my C comments.
Nobody can detect them in my executables.
HA! I'm so sneaky!
The trouble with licensing iseen't the result - it's the requirements to get the license.
What sounds reasonable:
A) To get a licence, you must pass a really difficult test and demonstrate
B) To get a licence, you must spend 3 years in any crappy shool of your choice and work for 7 years of in the field,in any crappy compay of your choice.
For smart people like you, you'd rather hit the books and choose A. Unfortunatly most licensing requiremnts are closer to B.
My brain has an almost infinate capacity for knowledge*, but I onoy have 40 more years on this earth. I should not have to spend 10 years of my life in drudgery to get another license, when I could quickly learn enough in a year, with concentration, to pass a difficult test.
* except for spelling.
Mandrake Linux has been beaten down by linux experts alike
Ok. I'm a Linux, more specifically a Unix "expert" and I can see nothing wrong with Mandrake:
A easy to install, easy to use, full featured Linux desktop? How horrible! Oh the humanity! When will it stop!
It's not like Mandrake Linux pissed in my Wheeties this morning.
The reason that Mac products don't bode well with Microsoft stuff is not because Macs have a problem dealing with Microsoft but because Microsoft has a problem with dealing with everything else.
Hell! Microcost has a problem with itself!
You can't Microsoft Windows 95 box to share files with a New Microsoft Pocket PC!
And both products come from Microsoft!
Hell Windows 95 isen't even seven years old, and they doen't even suport it.
That's silly. Mac users buying Virtual PC buy a copy of Windows, too.
But Microsoft wants controll - If they can get 10,000 people to move back to Windows by killing the Mac version, they'll do it.
They thing that iff they can maintain controll of the desktop, they can leverage it in the Server market.
Fortunatly - Microsoft's server and other products are so horrible that people rather use Samba, Netware, FTP, hell anthing that runs, just to stay away from Windows as a server.
* Finite State Machines
* Graph Theory
* Numerical Analysis
Hey! I've never had to do that sort of thinking with Windows Visual Basic
Why just the other day, I was getting stuck declaring a variable, and was just sitting there pondering, and all of a sudden this really smart paper-clip comes up and says "It looks like you're defining a variable!" - He was really helpfull!
Try VB.NET and you be a much more productive prorammer with only 5% of all that difficult thinking!
(I reposted this because some stupid modaraotor flagged my original as flamebait - it's supposed to be a joke. Maby a poor joke, but that's another issue)
Even easier - download Knoppix, Burn the ISO and boot off the Knoppix CD.
Presto!
It even mounts all the FAT/NTFS partitions and puts little icons on the KDE desktop for you. Click, browse and copy!
(Knoppix is a rather full Linux x86 distribution that boots off of a CD and doesen't need any hard drive to work. You get a greay KDE desktop and a lot of tools.)
* Finite State Machines
* Graph Theory
* Numerical Analysis
Hey! I've never had to do that sort of thinking with Windows Visual Basic
Why just the other day, I was getting stuck declaring a variable, and was just sitting there pondering, and all of a sudden this really smart paper-clip comes up and says "It looks like you're defining a variable!" - He was really helpfull!
Try VB.NET and you be a much more productive prorammer with only 5% of all that difficult thinking!
I have wondered why a lot of these Microsoft-worms never seem to have a destructive payload. If you imagine a script-kiddie working hard in his mom's basement, you'd think he'd add a payload of some sort.
(hell, if I had the inclenation and the time to create a virus, I'd atleast change the Windows statup
It's almost like these Microsoft-worms were desingned to create panic and purchasing action, but no legalally actionable damage.
Just a rambeling thought.
I hope the fine folks of GCC don't trade one inch of platform independance for a mile of "performance" on an Intel chip.
The best wat to get better performance out of GCC is to recopile your program - targeted to PowerPC, Alpha, Mips or hell... AMD.
Screwing with GCC to get better x86 performance is like puting a trubo on a Honda Civic - just buy the damn Corvette.
Why are you modding this troll up? Can the next moderation-happy person actually READ that this guy is suggesting to GET RID OF RETARDED CHILDREN (something about room with spikes in the follow up).
Good greif, sombody needs to lay off the crack pipe for a while.
It's called satire.
As for delinquents, discipline them young, while they still have a chance. Keep them away from soft-headed social workers and apply some corporal discipline where it's needed. The last thing I want or need is for these kids to get light treatment until they turn 18, whereupon they get thrown in prison (cirminal university) for something that used to get them two weeks in the county lockup. When you think about it, it makes no sense.
I agree fully. And odlly - almost everybody else that I know agrees with this sentiment, and yet, as a county, we constantly choose to coddle the little brats.
A mother can't spank her child in public for rear of the abuse-police.
My parent's, on occasion, spanked me raw - an I have thanked them for it. It kept me from doing a lot of stupid things with my life. I doubt I would be the person I am today if my parents diden't care enought to lay down the law.
I feel truly sorry for the childen who don't get the benifit of caring, thoughfull and smart parents.
So I have a new idea- we get all the parents of the children you're referring to, and your good self, and put them in this large room. We tell the parents what you suggested regarding their children.
Woah! Are you clever! Turn the tables around! Wow! I bow down to your superior intelect.
Or somthing.
"get rid" of retarded children? what kind of coldhearted bastard are you?
:giant-room" is fucking huge - it's 10,000 sq feet huge. A small section of the room has a pit of sharp spikes with a warning sign above it - "Pit of Spikes Will Kill You!".
No, that's easy. We let them sort themselves out.
Every 1'st grade class, for it's first day, gets to spend the day in the "giant-room."
This
The children are ushered in on the side of the room away from the pit of spikes, and get to spend the entire day in the room. Away from the pit of spikes are the bathrooms and eating facilities.
The stupid children fall into the pit of spikes.
The smart ones stay away.
If you're too stupid to fall into a pit of spikes, we'll, good ridance.
And where do you suppose these retarded and disruptive children will go? Cutting the bottom tail of the curve only gives the appearance higher quality by increasing the average grade but in actuality changes nothing. In addition, I don't see how banning 'team sports' helps your argument.
The bigest part of my solution (fire half the administrators) is 70% of the problem, the rest are niggeling points.
I just don't think retards and delenquents belong in socioty, let alone in the classroom where they help destroy the education of decent people. Wherehouse them - that's what we end up doing anyways. They don't seem to mind - they have no real minds to begin with. The less money we spend on them the better.
And tax the shit out of parents of disruptive children - their crappy parenting deserves punishment.
AFAIK, 'team sports' - football, baseball et al are a money drain on our shools and help perpetuate a way of life I find disagreeable - Image is imortant, self-acheivments is worthless, respect authority (the coach), bla bla bla. Teach kids to scuba-dive, fly, or climb mountains and I think we'd be better off.
Anways - theses are just niggleing point. Either way, it doesen't matter. Right now, education is being crushed by too much administration.
There are budget cuts happening all over California. They're coming in public schools
Good. There is olny a faint coralation between spending and quality of education.
Germany and Japan spend less, per child, on education and they both kick our asses.
Short answer: fire half of the school administrators, get rid of the retarded children, raise teacher saleries, get rid of the 'team sports', and ban disruptive children permently.
That would solve most of our problems in our education system and we'd end up spending less.