While I agree with you in principle, all but the auto accidents could be attributed to "choice". Not necessarily all cases, but a good portion of them could/are. As for smoking...you could make a brand called 'Cancer Sticks', make the package black with a skull and crossbones on them with the warning 'you will die' and people will still buy them.
While he was a bit of dick he does have a point depending on where you are. And while some public schools may be glorified daycare centers, private schools generally rise to offset them.
Well if you wanna be technical about it, the internet itself is not dangerous. It by itself does nothing, but the users of the internet, well thats another story.
As for social networking, it's not really that useful until after college(or just when you get into business) when you build a network of contacts between your old classmates or friends in all their various fields and locations.
Well lets put it this way, once you calculate all the add-ons needed to give a 360 the same functionality as a 60GB PS3 the price is basically the same, which may be an underestimate for the 360, I'm not gonna look them all up right now. So hardware wise it's the same investment. Which leaves software.
As for the value of games, well since only direct ports are out at the moment you're purely guessing. The "true", those with proper development time and tailored to the system, PS3 titles are scheduled to start arriving at the end of this month, and then it's almost a steady flow of a few games a month from their on. While what you say may be true, it's still too early to say for sure. However, I will agree it is a gamble. While the PS3 represents a powerful piece of hardware, will it be used to its full potential? Can devs come up with stuff to make it truly shine? We'll find out.
Thats technically a different argument but thats okay because it plays somewhat into the current. If people had half a brain or payed attention they would know before their $500+ purchase that there were not going to be many games initially. I specifically did not buy one until now because of it. I'm honestly a little confused on why everyone is surprised by this initial lack of games. It wasn't hard to look up release dates or notice that the basic technology is completely new for game developers, all the information needed was there to make a decision.
It plays all the games available quite well,DVDs and Blu-Ray also work, and guess what, it can connect to the internet! Hell if you're that bored you can install Linux on it and use it as desktop. It doesn't even overheat and commit suicide like some other consoles I know. It's does fulfill it's purpose, admirably.
If people can't make an informed purchase or they don't understand how things work in the real-world then they should not be allowed to spout bullshit complaints. Ignorance is not an excuse. Many foresaw this, and planned accordingly. They appear to be quite happy with their purchase.
And that's my problem with most of the complaints floating around out there.
If you are okay with only 1/2 the features, then yes it is. I suggest waiting till x-mas and picking up one of the premium or elite bundle packages which are bound to pop up. Should be able to get a decent deal.
Actually, it might be brilliant. Couple things to consider:
1. They removed the emotion chip to make it cheaper, and we all know $100 for 20GB ain't right. So... 2. This just makes the current 60GB version look all the more attractive. So.. 3. More 60GB will be sold since most of us will not want to get stuck with the 80GB version. So.. 4. They sell-out the 60GBs they are trying to get rid of and then drop the 80GB down to $500 since after all it is cheaper to produce. Which..
Result: Creates another rush because now the uninformed or those who were too slow see a "great" deal.
I admit that it seems almost too perfect but it's a possibility, and I believe it just might work. It takes advantage of the hardcore and the causals, sounds perfect to me. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Myth 2 was notorious for a bug that shipped in the first batch that would delete the directory you installed the game too when you ran the uninstall. If you altered the default path, which lots of people do, it could delete all of you C: or Program Files or wherever you put it's folder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_(computer_game)# Myth_II_installer_bug
Well, according to Wikipedia (and the reference material), they are going to stop updating the software emulation, so disabling the emotion chip on an existing piece of hardware thats stable and doesn't require updates would be kind of stupid. Especially since it would make the PS3 less backwards compatible and thus they might sell less PS2 games. I would be surprised if they made that dumb a move.
As for the HDD point, true, but it's still cheaper per GB.
No, I won't be surprised, not one bit. But thanks for reinforcing the point that they are specifically catering to a group in hopes of making up the difference with games sales. You demand bigger and better but then you complain that the price is too high? The dam things aren't eve sold at a profit. How many industries work like that?
You get the hardware at a steal, stop complaining.
I'm not sure how the upscaling works in all honesty. But my main concern was being able to play the whole PS2 catalog, which currently software emulation does not do, and Sony has said they will probably stop updating the software emulation to do so relatively soon (probably a year or so). So yea, take what you will from that.
Well I do have a tendency to pull out FF Tactics every couple of months...and there are a few just plain good games for PS2 that I replay when I'm in the mood. Though I will admit PSone games would be rarely played for me.
Thats fine and all but you can still use software emulation on the PS3s with emotion chips if you absolutely need to. However, it should really not be needed.
I may be prejudice, but I just don't trust software emulation if it can be avoided reasonably.
Thinking of getting a 360 around xmas, hopefully I can grab a nice bundle or something. But I see no reason to hurry at the moment.
Greater was probably the wrong word. I was specifically referencing the popularity of Live and the Wii marketplace thingy. Most of which is word of mouth praise which I don't really hear from PS3 owners. But now that you mention it I may just go connect mine to my network today to see what I can do with it.
And yea I missed the load times, virtual memory, paging stuff, etc... Really can't believe I forgot that, dam OS class must have not sunk in very well. But thanks for pointing it out, that should be above the others I listed.
While your point of playing games now is true, much to my chagrin, it is also the cheapest your gonna get the better hardware deal, the 60GB is superior to the 80GB due to the emotion chip.
As for the rest of your post, gaming is a leisure activity, therefore you should only be spending expendable income on it. If you have the means to game, you can probably afford the 1080p TV anyways since it will go nicely with your HDTV and surround sound system. If you are making a choice between a new game and eating this week you should probably get some sort of help or get your priorities straight.
I find it kinda funny that the GPU in my PC was $500, which is what I payed for an entire PS3, honestly, I got a good deal hardware wise. Now controllers...why the hell are the controllers $50? They aren't that complicated a dam device!
But anyways the question is just how big a cut are they taking on the consoles? For those that don't know, consoles are sold at a loss because they plan to make the difference up in games. Why else do you think they can sell advanced components so cheaply? It's a cell processor, just the cell processor costs something around $1k if you try to get one for a PC (which I'm not sure you can get yet, think their still purely for servers or supercomputing).
But I agree, the smart move would be to drop the 80GB price down as soon as the 60GBs are out, it should create a new interest and the unformed may think they are getting a better deal. Yea, cost me $630+tax when I bought my PS3 with 2 games and a 2nd controller. (1 game was used.) So making that a standard bundle would be a smart move, since the more consoles they move the more games they'll move in the long run.
I had the same thoughts basically, heres my reasoning:
1. The emotion chip was critical, the lack of this feature really makes the 80GB version sub-par ($50 bucks for an extra 20Gigs? fuck off). 2. The 60GB version is out of production and is now quickly climbing most best-selling lists at various stores and sites, which may be due too... 3. Recent $100 price-cut of the 60GB in an attempt to closeout the current supply and replace them with a sub-par and more expensive unit (this was the clincher for me).
So yea I bought mine a week ago. As soon as the 360 drops another $50 bucks off their current price-cut probably gonna pick up one of those too.
Well one reason is to remove the need for various memory cards, like the three I used to swap around. You don't need them anymore cause you got one giant ass internal one now. The second reason, currently this is more prevalent in the 360 and Wii then the PS3, you can download new content/old games/demos/music/etc.. which are stored, you guessed it, on the HD.
Basically they are giving the consoles some of the functionality we have enjoyed for years with PC gaming.
Sigh I can't resist this one. Kudos for actually attempting to identify the underlying ramifications of the actions you are discussing, most people only see the base value.
First off, the initial detonation of the two nuclear devices killed approximately 120,000 people. This is actually less the the previous firebombings. However, it was done with 2 devices instead of 2438 tons of munitions, (thats what was dropped on Tokyo on March 9th, 1945) that was the message. So, as far as the US government knew at the time it was no different then previous attacks, hell they did less damage, although that was not the point as I previously said. Radiation poisoning was not very well known at this point, hence why most people closely associated with the handling aspect (or who people lived too close to the test site) of the project started dying over the next few years from it so it was most likely not factored into the damage the devices would cause.
While it may have been also partially to scare the Reds as you say, I do not see how that could not be construed as a bonus side effect. Doing so may have prevented Russia from attempting to expand it's borders, which we know it wanted to do from Russia's previous agreement with Germany and from the previous Russo-Japanese War. It is argued that Russia itself may have committed far more crimes then any other nation in WWII and the years afterwards, and most of those were against their own people! You also assume that Japan would honor a surrender, why? Almost every time their is a surrender without breaking the military power of the nation they just return later to cause problems again. Go check out Napoleon (though luckily in that case Waterloo went horribly for him).
Why do you discard the Potsdam Ultimatum? It was a warning, and Japan ignored it. From you reasoning you would show a test of your SECRET WEAPON just to convince them that the threat is real, thats just all around bad military advice. Using the weapon not only showed it's power, but it showed the willingness to use it if needed. Testing it may have done nothing, perhaps it would have rallied Japan and Russia to oppose us. To truly defeat your enemy you must break them of their will or ability to fight. Only when they realized not only that we had the power, but were willing to use it, did they unconditionally surrender. You must remember that the Japanese, especially at this time, had a very different sense of honor and duty. Would you conceive of American Kamikazes? By the way, the reason they used the second bomb was because even after the first they did not surrender. Perhaps they thought that it was a one shot and we could not duplicate the feat? Thus we would have no more power over them. The use of nukes may have saved countless lives in the long run, preventing any residual conflicts among the World Powers.
You simplify the issue, as did I. But my point stands, its all well and good to sit back, 50+ years later and judge the actions of others who were in very difficult positions that you and I will never be in. Does that mean they were all right? No of course not. But you ignore three thousand years of human warfare and politics because it's easy to sit back in your chair, in ignorance, and spout crap you were spoon fed by someone else.
I would love if there was no war in the world, it is a horrible thing and there is no glory in and of itself. But unfortunately their are still those out there who don't share that sentiment. Some of them cannot be reasoned with, they can not be converted, we cannot imprison them, they will fight to the death. What else are we to do?
While it's up to debate whether thats true or not, it should be noted that afterwards we helped reconstruct Japan and lo and behold it appears to be doing quite well now. So we diverted that potential problem you proposed. Was it learning the lesson from Germany? I don't know, but it obviously turned out alright in the end.
Because if a majority of people agree on something they have no real understanding of, they must be infallibly right. Reminds me of an old quote from somewhere comparing democracy and monarchies: "Which is better? The rule of one tyrant? Or the rule of many tyrants?"
Democracy is indeed an amazing government when we all possess the same knowledge and understanding of the issues. Of course it could mean we would always agree and don't really need more then one person to make the decisions, weird concept, I'm gonna go think about that now. Side note, I like democracy in principle, however in modern practice I find it rather appalling most of the time.
I'll leave you with his here's a nice simple formula for success in debates (also known as not looking like an idiot):
Step#1: Assume someone knows better then you.
Step#2: Do research. (Your random opinion using tidbits you remember from high school or the news is not research.)
Step#3: Rebut or Agree with your newfound knowledge.
I have the strange feeling it would be easier and cheaper to buy a jury then a judge. Cause you know, they aren't public figures that are constantly under scrutiny and do this for a living, or anything like that. Of course you'll probably then go all paranoid and say those above the judge are also corrupted yadda yadda, so this is kinda a futile comment.
Everyone can't be corrupted, otherwise it wouldn't be corruption, it'd be the status quo.
Slashdot Mirror
While I agree with you in principle, all but the auto accidents could be attributed to "choice". Not necessarily all cases, but a good portion of them could/are. As for smoking...you could make a brand called 'Cancer Sticks', make the package black with a skull and crossbones on them with the warning 'you will die' and people will still buy them.
(Kudos if you recall where I got that from.)
While he was a bit of dick he does have a point depending on where you are. And while some public schools may be glorified daycare centers, private schools generally rise to offset them.
Well if you wanna be technical about it, the internet itself is not dangerous. It by itself does nothing, but the users of the internet, well thats another story.
As for social networking, it's not really that useful until after college(or just when you get into business) when you build a network of contacts between your old classmates or friends in all their various fields and locations.
Thank you random statistics for once more proving absolutely nothing!
Well lets put it this way, once you calculate all the add-ons needed to give a 360 the same functionality as a 60GB PS3 the price is basically the same, which may be an underestimate for the 360, I'm not gonna look them all up right now. So hardware wise it's the same investment. Which leaves software.
As for the value of games, well since only direct ports are out at the moment you're purely guessing. The "true", those with proper development time and tailored to the system, PS3 titles are scheduled to start arriving at the end of this month, and then it's almost a steady flow of a few games a month from their on. While what you say may be true, it's still too early to say for sure. However, I will agree it is a gamble. While the PS3 represents a powerful piece of hardware, will it be used to its full potential? Can devs come up with stuff to make it truly shine? We'll find out.
Thats technically a different argument but thats okay because it plays somewhat into the current. If people had half a brain or payed attention they would know before their $500+ purchase that there were not going to be many games initially. I specifically did not buy one until now because of it. I'm honestly a little confused on why everyone is surprised by this initial lack of games. It wasn't hard to look up release dates or notice that the basic technology is completely new for game developers, all the information needed was there to make a decision.
It plays all the games available quite well,DVDs and Blu-Ray also work, and guess what, it can connect to the internet! Hell if you're that bored you can install Linux on it and use it as desktop. It doesn't even overheat and commit suicide like some other consoles I know. It's does fulfill it's purpose, admirably.
If people can't make an informed purchase or they don't understand how things work in the real-world then they should not be allowed to spout bullshit complaints. Ignorance is not an excuse. Many foresaw this, and planned accordingly. They appear to be quite happy with their purchase.
And that's my problem with most of the complaints floating around out there.
If you are okay with only 1/2 the features, then yes it is. I suggest waiting till x-mas and picking up one of the premium or elite bundle packages which are bound to pop up. Should be able to get a decent deal.
Actually, it might be brilliant. Couple things to consider:
1. They removed the emotion chip to make it cheaper, and we all know $100 for 20GB ain't right. So...
2. This just makes the current 60GB version look all the more attractive. So..
3. More 60GB will be sold since most of us will not want to get stuck with the 80GB version. So..
4. They sell-out the 60GBs they are trying to get rid of and then drop the 80GB down to $500 since after all it is cheaper to produce. Which..
Result: Creates another rush because now the uninformed or those who were too slow see a "great" deal.
I admit that it seems almost too perfect but it's a possibility, and I believe it just might work. It takes advantage of the hardcore and the causals, sounds perfect to me. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Myth 2 was notorious for a bug that shipped in the first batch that would delete the directory you installed the game too when you ran the uninstall. If you altered the default path, which lots of people do, it could delete all of you C: or Program Files or wherever you put it's folder.# Myth_II_installer_bug
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_(computer_game)
I found the original press release where they mention it, the year estimate appears to be an opinion from wherever I first saw the reference originally, but they seem pretty adamant about not doing it for too long. http://www.scee.presscentre.com/Content/Detail.asp ?ReleaseID=4331&NewsAreaID=2
Well, according to Wikipedia (and the reference material), they are going to stop updating the software emulation, so disabling the emotion chip on an existing piece of hardware thats stable and doesn't require updates would be kind of stupid. Especially since it would make the PS3 less backwards compatible and thus they might sell less PS2 games. I would be surprised if they made that dumb a move.
As for the HDD point, true, but it's still cheaper per GB.
No, I won't be surprised, not one bit. But thanks for reinforcing the point that they are specifically catering to a group in hopes of making up the difference with games sales. You demand bigger and better but then you complain that the price is too high? The dam things aren't eve sold at a profit. How many industries work like that?
You get the hardware at a steal, stop complaining.
I'm not sure how the upscaling works in all honesty. But my main concern was being able to play the whole PS2 catalog, which currently software emulation does not do, and Sony has said they will probably stop updating the software emulation to do so relatively soon (probably a year or so). So yea, take what you will from that.
Well I do have a tendency to pull out FF Tactics every couple of months...and there are a few just plain good games for PS2 that I replay when I'm in the mood. Though I will admit PSone games would be rarely played for me.
Thats fine and all but you can still use software emulation on the PS3s with emotion chips if you absolutely need to. However, it should really not be needed.
I may be prejudice, but I just don't trust software emulation if it can be avoided reasonably.
Thinking of getting a 360 around xmas, hopefully I can grab a nice bundle or something. But I see no reason to hurry at the moment.
Greater was probably the wrong word. I was specifically referencing the popularity of Live and the Wii marketplace thingy. Most of which is word of mouth praise which I don't really hear from PS3 owners. But now that you mention it I may just go connect mine to my network today to see what I can do with it.
And yea I missed the load times, virtual memory, paging stuff, etc... Really can't believe I forgot that, dam OS class must have not sunk in very well. But thanks for pointing it out, that should be above the others I listed.
While your point of playing games now is true, much to my chagrin, it is also the cheapest your gonna get the better hardware deal, the 60GB is superior to the 80GB due to the emotion chip.
As for the rest of your post, gaming is a leisure activity, therefore you should only be spending expendable income on it. If you have the means to game, you can probably afford the 1080p TV anyways since it will go nicely with your HDTV and surround sound system. If you are making a choice between a new game and eating this week you should probably get some sort of help or get your priorities straight.
I find it kinda funny that the GPU in my PC was $500, which is what I payed for an entire PS3, honestly, I got a good deal hardware wise. Now controllers...why the hell are the controllers $50? They aren't that complicated a dam device! But anyways the question is just how big a cut are they taking on the consoles? For those that don't know, consoles are sold at a loss because they plan to make the difference up in games. Why else do you think they can sell advanced components so cheaply? It's a cell processor, just the cell processor costs something around $1k if you try to get one for a PC (which I'm not sure you can get yet, think their still purely for servers or supercomputing). But I agree, the smart move would be to drop the 80GB price down as soon as the 60GBs are out, it should create a new interest and the unformed may think they are getting a better deal. Yea, cost me $630+tax when I bought my PS3 with 2 games and a 2nd controller. (1 game was used.) So making that a standard bundle would be a smart move, since the more consoles they move the more games they'll move in the long run.
I had the same thoughts basically, heres my reasoning:
1. The emotion chip was critical, the lack of this feature really makes the 80GB version sub-par ($50 bucks for an extra 20Gigs? fuck off).
2. The 60GB version is out of production and is now quickly climbing most best-selling lists at various stores and sites, which may be due too...
3. Recent $100 price-cut of the 60GB in an attempt to closeout the current supply and replace them with a sub-par and more expensive unit (this was the clincher for me).
So yea I bought mine a week ago. As soon as the 360 drops another $50 bucks off their current price-cut probably gonna pick up one of those too.
Well one reason is to remove the need for various memory cards, like the three I used to swap around. You don't need them anymore cause you got one giant ass internal one now. The second reason, currently this is more prevalent in the 360 and Wii then the PS3, you can download new content/old games/demos/music/etc.. which are stored, you guessed it, on the HD.
Basically they are giving the consoles some of the functionality we have enjoyed for years with PC gaming.
Honestly, they could do better then this. The amount is negligible, bump it up to to at least $100 then come talk to me.
Sigh I can't resist this one. Kudos for actually attempting to identify the underlying ramifications of the actions you are discussing, most people only see the base value.
First off, the initial detonation of the two nuclear devices killed approximately 120,000 people. This is actually less the the previous firebombings. However, it was done with 2 devices instead of 2438 tons of munitions, (thats what was dropped on Tokyo on March 9th, 1945) that was the message. So, as far as the US government knew at the time it was no different then previous attacks, hell they did less damage, although that was not the point as I previously said. Radiation poisoning was not very well known at this point, hence why most people closely associated with the handling aspect (or who people lived too close to the test site) of the project started dying over the next few years from it so it was most likely not factored into the damage the devices would cause.
While it may have been also partially to scare the Reds as you say, I do not see how that could not be construed as a bonus side effect. Doing so may have prevented Russia from attempting to expand it's borders, which we know it wanted to do from Russia's previous agreement with Germany and from the previous Russo-Japanese War. It is argued that Russia itself may have committed far more crimes then any other nation in WWII and the years afterwards, and most of those were against their own people! You also assume that Japan would honor a surrender, why? Almost every time their is a surrender without breaking the military power of the nation they just return later to cause problems again. Go check out Napoleon (though luckily in that case Waterloo went horribly for him).
Why do you discard the Potsdam Ultimatum? It was a warning, and Japan ignored it. From you reasoning you would show a test of your SECRET WEAPON just to convince them that the threat is real, thats just all around bad military advice. Using the weapon not only showed it's power, but it showed the willingness to use it if needed. Testing it may have done nothing, perhaps it would have rallied Japan and Russia to oppose us. To truly defeat your enemy you must break them of their will or ability to fight. Only when they realized not only that we had the power, but were willing to use it, did they unconditionally surrender. You must remember that the Japanese, especially at this time, had a very different sense of honor and duty. Would you conceive of American Kamikazes? By the way, the reason they used the second bomb was because even after the first they did not surrender. Perhaps they thought that it was a one shot and we could not duplicate the feat? Thus we would have no more power over them. The use of nukes may have saved countless lives in the long run, preventing any residual conflicts among the World Powers.
You simplify the issue, as did I. But my point stands, its all well and good to sit back, 50+ years later and judge the actions of others who were in very difficult positions that you and I will never be in. Does that mean they were all right? No of course not. But you ignore three thousand years of human warfare and politics because it's easy to sit back in your chair, in ignorance, and spout crap you were spoon fed by someone else.
I would love if there was no war in the world, it is a horrible thing and there is no glory in and of itself. But unfortunately their are still those out there who don't share that sentiment. Some of them cannot be reasoned with, they can not be converted, we cannot imprison them, they will fight to the death. What else are we to do?
While it's up to debate whether thats true or not, it should be noted that afterwards we helped reconstruct Japan and lo and behold it appears to be doing quite well now. So we diverted that potential problem you proposed. Was it learning the lesson from Germany? I don't know, but it obviously turned out alright in the end.
Because if a majority of people agree on something they have no real understanding of, they must be infallibly right. Reminds me of an old quote from somewhere comparing democracy and monarchies: "Which is better? The rule of one tyrant? Or the rule of many tyrants?"
Democracy is indeed an amazing government when we all possess the same knowledge and understanding of the issues. Of course it could mean we would always agree and don't really need more then one person to make the decisions, weird concept, I'm gonna go think about that now. Side note, I like democracy in principle, however in modern practice I find it rather appalling most of the time.
I'll leave you with his here's a nice simple formula for success in debates (also known as not looking like an idiot):
Step#1: Assume someone knows better then you.
Step#2: Do research. (Your random opinion using tidbits you remember from high school or the news is not research.)
Step#3: Rebut or Agree with your newfound knowledge.
I have the strange feeling it would be easier and cheaper to buy a jury then a judge. Cause you know, they aren't public figures that are constantly under scrutiny and do this for a living, or anything like that. Of course you'll probably then go all paranoid and say those above the judge are also corrupted yadda yadda, so this is kinda a futile comment.
Everyone can't be corrupted, otherwise it wouldn't be corruption, it'd be the status quo.