So it isn't really Microsoft that can lock you out, it's device manufacturer....
Almost. It won't be the manufacturer locking you out, it will be the vendor. Why would the vendor do that? For the same reason a vendor would only sell machines with pre-installed Windows (choose the one you like: internal support costs, being payed by MS to promote it, alien conspiracy, etc).
I don't know why you're buying a computer with Windows to begin with if you're going to install Linux anyway...
It's fun to read statistics of the number of people who "discover" Linux every year, and start using it conjunctionally or in place of their pre-installed Windows. If we do start seeing locked-down UEFI systems being sold that will curb this trend quickly. The question then is: does a company exist that would have a desire to do said curbing, and would it be willing to coerce manufacturers and vendors to achieve it?
I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this yet, starting at 0:25 they have silhouettes of saluting soldiers while they talk about open source systems. Is it just me or do the uniforms imply Soviet soldiers? As in, you know, communists (gasp!) Yes, that old malarkey again. Am I reading this wrong? I welcome other explanations of what the soldiers are supposed to mean.
Actually they own the name, so they can kill it in name. I don't think they'll kill it as much as just let it stagnate. Of course they don't own the code, hence we'll all be switching to LibreOffice, since that's where the momentum is heading.
You made a post intending to reduce the use (or supposed misuse) of the word irony by other posters, and instead your post was directly responsible for an increase of usage of the word and massive discussion of it.
There's a word for this, I just can't remember what it is...
Not only that, the systems weren't the stock Ubuntu, they changed the apt sources to their own and in the case of my wife's Min 12, never offered newer software past 8.04. Sure the community made it easy to get the latest release, but non-savvy customers would never look past official Dell channels and so would in essence be abandoned.
I feel like a broken record because I always have to remind people of this: many of your arguments also go for Mac OS X to some degree. You have to make sure your hardware and software work for it before buying. Carbon apps vs Cocoa? PPC, Intel, or Universal, which do I download? Yet somehow Mac converts are on the rise. Maybe it's because I only need to be told once that universal is what I need to download. So if an Ubuntu user is told "use the software center, if it's not there, download a.deb" I don't think that's too hard.
I do agree the app descriptions like "for X11" are arbitrary, and this is being addressed as a papercut. However, all of the apps in the software center will work regardless of the toolkit (or lack thereof) in their description.
And how successful were they at these endeavors? Apparently, not very.
Where were you from 1995 to 2003? I couldn't go anywhere on the web without seeing the "best in MS IE" or even "IE Only" badges at the bottom of pages, whether for legitimate reasons like a bank site using ActiveX or out of sheer ignorance like cousin Larry's awesome family site loaded with IE-only tags ('cause he learned them on htmlgoodies.com!) "So just don't use those sites" was the solution, but not everyone had the luxury. Now we see the same thing with niche or industry-specific apps. The.NET indoctrination has lead to many [medical | architectural | graphical design | <YourCompany>'s homegrown] applications that won't become portable anytime soon despite mono's best efforts.
Yes but... most consumers will never install anything outside of what their carrier offers them in the "market" or "app store" etc. Which means the great FOSS alternatives that get excluded don't get the user base, the feedback and bug reports, etc. They're limited to the niche of those who seek outside the carrier's limits. Now THAT should be the concern discussed in this article, not the software itself but the control over software distribution channels.
So you want to do away with Ask Slashdot? It's a moral dilemma, he's got the potential to do great good but it just as easily might enable those who would use it for evil. Asking peers for opinions or insight doesn't mean he wants to blame others. There might be things he hasn't though of, or a better way to accomplish things. It's just a smart thing to do.
"Dr. is this the correct incision point, or will cutting here kill the patient?"
"If you have to ask, your ethical compass is b0rked. Dumb@ss n00b!"
Yup, which is why the car manufactures are so big on obfuscating the specs on vehicles. V6, dual overhead cams, alloy wheels? Those terms would just confuse people. And good luck finding out if a truck has a Hemi engine, it's never mentioned, because nobody would try to market the underlying engine technology and go all gearhead on their poor confused consumers.
We all have our preferences/biases. Yours is quite clear when you mention that installation on Linux is a pain for unexperienced users, then turn around and say it's easy to secure Windows for any experienced user who knows what he's doing. So you've pointed out that doing stuff is easy on any system you're experienced on. Insightful, thank you.
My take? Use what you like best, and what works, in that order. I used Linux and choose to put up with Wine, VMs etc. to get some things done. You've chosen to put up with the constant security maintenance of Windows. It's no big deal to you, you're used to it.
But here's (one reason) why we Linux zelots dislike Microsoft; their monopoly has perpetuated the idea that all non-Apple systems are Windows; so many people don't get to even make the choice that you and I have made. And to me that's sad.
Why do we still see this; someone discusses sci-fi and they get this ridiculous attack of "it's only a movie, get a life"? And yet discussing alternate outcomes to a sports game is perfectly socially acceptable to these people. (And don't you dare say "it's only a game.")
The old stereotypes like "if you discuss Star Trek you must wear flood pants and talk through your nose" are dead. You've been watching too many Revenge of the Nerds movies.
Looks like I need to check out Handbrake, but I really like k9copy, much cleaner than dvd::rip, and more featureful than thoggen but still simple to use and effective.
Re:Nope, it's the putative new users problem
on
Linux Needs Critics
·
· Score: 1
Hate to fall in to the stereotype, but when someone says "Help! KDE is throwing too many options at me!" I say "Gnome".
Right-click your files, click "send to". Besides entering the mail recipient, right there you have the option to "send packed in" and choose the compression type.
Even if you weren't aware that "send to" had compression options, the context menu has "Create archive" with a simple dialog, and the encryption options are hidden under a "advanced options" section. Same functionality, simple presentation.
Your "problem" is a matter of choice of DE (or file manager). If you want to say "well most average users don't know how to choose" then you see why consumer-oriented distros like Ubuntu default to Gnome.
This irks me, if you go to the "design" tab and hit "Meet the Mini" it says
"Look for Ubuntu Linux 8.04 with custom Dell interface when customizing your Inspiron Mini 9, or upgrade to Genuine Microsoft Windows XP."
When I compare upgrades on the Ubuntu model with the mid and high-price XP offerings I get Ubuntu $15 cheaper and equal, respectively. And that's with their stupid "instant savings". Wonder who's behind those, Dell or MS?
Is Applications -> Add / Remove or Synaptic simply "good enough"?
Yup, it is. There's nothing in CNR that I use that I don't find in the Ubuntu repositories. The few apps I don't get from the repos are not in CNR, so I have no use for it.
Now if the project focused not on offering things already available as.debs but instead on packaging those that aren't you might have something. But that would be a big undertaking.
Ahh, but you're talking about problems installing. How often does aunt Millie install an OS? When buying a new computer she gets one with the OS pre-installed, and if she ever needs to re-install she gets her favorite nephew to do it. My mom's a typical aunt Millie and I got so sick of being her Windows helpdesk because of spyware that I installed Ubuntu for her. Once it was setup the only call I got was for help with a Thunderbird question, which was not OS-specific.
I would argue that the Georges and Millies of which you speak, who only want to browse the web and get e-mail from their grandkids, would do fine with Linux or OSX once they're shown basic navigation.
Slashdot Mirror
So it isn't really Microsoft that can lock you out, it's device manufacturer....
Almost. It won't be the manufacturer locking you out, it will be the vendor. Why would the vendor do that? For the same reason a vendor would only sell machines with pre-installed Windows (choose the one you like: internal support costs, being payed by MS to promote it, alien conspiracy, etc).
I don't know why you're buying a computer with Windows to begin with if you're going to install Linux anyway...
It's fun to read statistics of the number of people who "discover" Linux every year, and start using it conjunctionally or in place of their pre-installed Windows. If we do start seeing locked-down UEFI systems being sold that will curb this trend quickly. The question then is: does a company exist that would have a desire to do said curbing, and would it be willing to coerce manufacturers and vendors to achieve it?
I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this yet, starting at 0:25 they have silhouettes of saluting soldiers while they talk about open source systems. Is it just me or do the uniforms imply Soviet soldiers? As in, you know, communists (gasp!) Yes, that old malarkey again. Am I reading this wrong? I welcome other explanations of what the soldiers are supposed to mean.
Actually they own the name, so they can kill it in name. I don't think they'll kill it as much as just let it stagnate. Of course they don't own the code, hence we'll all be switching to LibreOffice, since that's where the momentum is heading.
You made a post intending to reduce the use (or supposed misuse) of the word irony by other posters, and instead your post was directly responsible for an increase of usage of the word and massive discussion of it.
There's a word for this, I just can't remember what it is...
I think you mean Win - Lin.
You're comparing apples to oranges.
Uh no, he's comparing apples to penguins. Can't believe you missed that one.
Yup. I can't believe this story got put on Slashdot as is, no geek should confuse those two terms.
Not only that, the systems weren't the stock Ubuntu, they changed the apt sources to their own and in the case of my wife's Min 12, never offered newer software past 8.04. Sure the community made it easy to get the latest release, but non-savvy customers would never look past official Dell channels and so would in essence be abandoned.
When you say Mac OS X has something similar I think what you mean is it has exactly the same thing. Sudo is sudo.
I feel like a broken record because I always have to remind people of this: many of your arguments also go for Mac OS X to some degree. You have to make sure your hardware and software work for it before buying. Carbon apps vs Cocoa? PPC, Intel, or Universal, which do I download? Yet somehow Mac converts are on the rise. Maybe it's because I only need to be told once that universal is what I need to download. So if an Ubuntu user is told "use the software center, if it's not there, download a .deb" I don't think that's too hard.
I do agree the app descriptions like "for X11" are arbitrary, and this is being addressed as a papercut. However, all of the apps in the software center will work regardless of the toolkit (or lack thereof) in their description.
And how successful were they at these endeavors? Apparently, not very.
Where were you from 1995 to 2003? I couldn't go anywhere on the web without seeing the "best in MS IE" or even "IE Only" badges at the bottom of pages, whether for legitimate reasons like a bank site using ActiveX or out of sheer ignorance like cousin Larry's awesome family site loaded with IE-only tags ('cause he learned them on htmlgoodies.com!) "So just don't use those sites" was the solution, but not everyone had the luxury. Now we see the same thing with niche or industry-specific apps. The .NET indoctrination has lead to many [medical | architectural | graphical design | <YourCompany>'s homegrown] applications that won't become portable anytime soon despite mono's best efforts.
Yes but... most consumers will never install anything outside of what their carrier offers them in the "market" or "app store" etc. Which means the great FOSS alternatives that get excluded don't get the user base, the feedback and bug reports, etc. They're limited to the niche of those who seek outside the carrier's limits. Now THAT should be the concern discussed in this article, not the software itself but the control over software distribution channels.
So you want to do away with Ask Slashdot? It's a moral dilemma, he's got the potential to do great good but it just as easily might enable those who would use it for evil. Asking peers for opinions or insight doesn't mean he wants to blame others. There might be things he hasn't though of, or a better way to accomplish things. It's just a smart thing to do.
"Dr. is this the correct incision point, or will cutting here kill the patient?"
"If you have to ask, your ethical compass is b0rked. Dumb@ss n00b!"
Can we mod parent up?
Oh wait...
Here on /. we like Linux. Next try posting on hotchicksthatstarredintransformersmovies.com and asking why it's news when Megan Fox does *anything*.
We all have our preferences/biases. Yours is quite clear when you mention that installation on Linux is a pain for unexperienced users, then turn around and say it's easy to secure Windows for any experienced user who knows what he's doing. So you've pointed out that doing stuff is easy on any system you're experienced on. Insightful, thank you.
My take? Use what you like best, and what works, in that order. I used Linux and choose to put up with Wine, VMs etc. to get some things done. You've chosen to put up with the constant security maintenance of Windows. It's no big deal to you, you're used to it.
But here's (one reason) why we Linux zelots dislike Microsoft; their monopoly has perpetuated the idea that all non-Apple systems are Windows; so many people don't get to even make the choice that you and I have made. And to me that's sad.
Why do we still see this; someone discusses sci-fi and they get this ridiculous attack of "it's only a movie, get a life"? And yet discussing alternate outcomes to a sports game is perfectly socially acceptable to these people. (And don't you dare say "it's only a game.")
The old stereotypes like "if you discuss Star Trek you must wear flood pants and talk through your nose" are dead. You've been watching too many Revenge of the Nerds movies.
Looks like I need to check out Handbrake, but I really like k9copy, much cleaner than dvd::rip, and more featureful than thoggen but still simple to use and effective.
Hate to fall in to the stereotype, but when someone says "Help! KDE is throwing too many options at me!" I say "Gnome". Right-click your files, click "send to". Besides entering the mail recipient, right there you have the option to "send packed in" and choose the compression type.
Even if you weren't aware that "send to" had compression options, the context menu has "Create archive" with a simple dialog, and the encryption options are hidden under a "advanced options" section. Same functionality, simple presentation.
Your "problem" is a matter of choice of DE (or file manager). If you want to say "well most average users don't know how to choose" then you see why consumer-oriented distros like Ubuntu default to Gnome.
As long as Mandriva doesn't join forces with Linpus, no one wants to hear about Manpus.
This irks me, if you go to the "design" tab and hit "Meet the Mini" it says "Look for Ubuntu Linux 8.04 with custom Dell interface when customizing your Inspiron Mini 9, or upgrade to Genuine Microsoft Windows XP."
So XP is considered an Upgrade? Aaarrgh!
I would guess it's a further customized version of Ubuntu netbook remix, which does use Gnome underneath everything.
When I compare upgrades on the Ubuntu model with the mid and high-price XP offerings I get Ubuntu $15 cheaper and equal, respectively. And that's with their stupid "instant savings". Wonder who's behind those, Dell or MS?
Is Applications -> Add / Remove or Synaptic simply "good enough"?
Yup, it is. There's nothing in CNR that I use that I don't find in the Ubuntu repositories. The few apps I don't get from the repos are not in CNR, so I have no use for it.
Now if the project focused not on offering things already available as .debs but instead on packaging those that aren't you might have something. But that would be a big undertaking.
Ahh, but you're talking about problems installing. How often does aunt Millie install an OS? When buying a new computer she gets one with the OS pre-installed, and if she ever needs to re-install she gets her favorite nephew to do it. My mom's a typical aunt Millie and I got so sick of being her Windows helpdesk because of spyware that I installed Ubuntu for her. Once it was setup the only call I got was for help with a Thunderbird question, which was not OS-specific. I would argue that the Georges and Millies of which you speak, who only want to browse the web and get e-mail from their grandkids, would do fine with Linux or OSX once they're shown basic navigation.