I think you have it backwards, whether it's morally or even legally wrong or right is irrelevant. It's business and everything is weighed, nothing is forbidden.
And god forbid reality intrude, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease. If nobody complains about their code being used, he's made a good business decision. No public outcry will cause a change specifically because of the parent's insightful observations...
in absence of a specific license, the code would simply fall under copyright laws, meaning that no one would have any rights to use it (except the original author, of course)
Wha wha wha...Someone abusing the copywrite system for individual gain??? (notoriety/press, shareware fees), it's standard practice.
Given the number of customers the combined features garnered, as well as allowing the suite to take the undisputed lead as the office application of choice, no. It's specifically inconsequential.
I think you missed his point (not to mention trying to argue with a guy who in all likelihood will not read this thread)...
But there is a benefit to discussing complexity because it does seem to impact how many bugs arise and the maintainability, upgradeability, and usability of the software.
In the real world (tm) which he alluded to as "For all practical purposes" you build and ship increasingly complex software because that's the best way to make money and that's how most successful companies run.
It's not merely a philosophical issue, either. This is a real, practical issue that impacts millions of people everyday.
And so far it's worked out ok for Adobe, Microsoft, AOL, and the general public to the chagrin of the perfectionistic naysayers.
You may think that discussing the pros/cons will somehow unlock some previously unexplored vector to the basic design strategy of build->patch->upgrade->patch... but that's very unlikely as you have not added anything to either side of the argument other than stating knowns.
I'm glad to see that there is no procedural magic bullet and even MS code is still debugged the way that I've always seen it done. Trial and error;-)
Remember when the US got Australia to turn over one of their citizens for breaking US law even when no Australian law was broken? If positions were reversed, Americans would have cried bloody murder.
Useful Perl code probably means, you were able to mimic sed/awk operations. It's always been easier to whip up an interpreted script over a series of fault tolerant GUI functions.
(As per AC) String[] myList = new File(filename).list();
@file = glob($filename."/*");
I dont have to be a Java programmer to guess what the first one does. I specifically have to be a Perl programmer to know what the second does.
This is a large part of what Java was trying to accomplish. What's really disconcerting is that practical experience teaches that Perl ends up more like
@name = glob($var."/*");
where you have to recognize the syntax to understand the operation.
The reason people dont program in Java is having to set up a VM to run it as the standalone programs are too slow and large.
Slow and Ineffective go hand in hand. If you dont know how slow web based mail can be, you arent qualified to open your mouth, dumbass. If you cannot check it regularly and consistently without loading times and popups/forced pre-ads as per mail.com, it's become 'both' to an appreciable degree. This is also the main reason web-based mail is not the defacto standard in the corporate environment. Hey AC, go get yourself an account, or at least a real job, kthxbye.
If you cannot afford the book, you often cannot pass the class. You cannot pass the class, you cannot renew your scholarship. You deny someone access to knowledge, it may be the knowledge that saves their lives, and certainly is not the method by which to educate...only if you have the money. Learning's most expensive when it comes from a book, which is morally wrong.
Morally wrong - as in it can be cheaply recopied by a student with no skills yet cannot be cheaply produced by a publisher who is obviously out to maximize profits. Education in the US is subsidized and mandatory. Exploiting that system is wrong. Period.
Lots of people do prey on the education system of the US, of course, and in this case I point a finger at textbook publishers. You wanna print 1 copy of a textbook per CLASSROOM and double teacher's salaries, make a class devoted to how to copy/transcribe books, you're a fucking hero. But first you gotta pry the contracts from the solid gold hands of the publishers and convince the old guard running the education system that there's a better way, and it wont get them fired. Good luck.
PHP is getting to be the same thing. I'm sure it's the unnecessarily alien (or as Larry might call it, elegant and succinct) syntax that has caused a drop in Perl usage (in terms of live code). PHP/Java/C does the same thing Perl does, but more wordy. Now Perl might have a VM? So much for the benefits of all those single character operators when they could have been using functions like everyone else.
Those big corporations will take whatever steps are necessary to stay in business and prosper.
Good for them, but faced with a big enough threat, they won't.
What does that response mean? Faced with a big enough threat they wont try to stay in business? What is your point other than playing devil's advocate? His points are all valid as were your responses (as limited as your experience is)...excepting this gem which made no sense.
Small companies who are successful selling computers, become big companies or go out of business. Haven't you seen this happen around your town? Oh yeah, DELL is still around but the mom and pop is gone so dont act like the underdogs always produce the better product and prosper (Apple being a debated champion of the image).
(1) triggers (2) constraint triggers (3) functional indexes using a user-defined function, or indexing a user-defined data type (4) user-defined aggregate function (5) user-defined data types (6) stored-procedures
all ways to speed up processes through database optimized work. If your dataset is small enough, your lookups are short and this is unnecessary.
I do not use database logic when I can still comfortably recommend and setup computationally (more) powerful machines to process the logic outside the database. This is not a very realistic view because of the practical limits of OS/App transactions (funny how that works out), but the right way to do it theoretically.
As a Commodore64 never quite did what I wanted, I didn't purchase or use one and if I find myself in a position where I cannot solve a problem using my paradigms, I am comfortable abdicating my position to someone who has, what is considered, a more progressive view. I'm a specialized kind of tool (pun) in this respect..
I dont believe app vendors are the people suffering from the "upgrade". I'm talking about the small business who has no reliable tech support or the average joe who finds he seems to have a systemic problem that randomly affects applications he runs.
Your just decide to implement a 100% turnaround in how your OS policy worked before (without making a big deal of it, of course...I'm sure it was documented somewhere). This is almost akin to "Oh yeah, and XP only reads DOS partitions now...er again...er yeah, just like you wanted!". This blunder is complicated by MS applications not always documenting what ports they are using because that's proprietary information and of course you can always buy the product and ask the licensed technical support.
When mentioning "ease" of administration, this includes but is not limited to the potential complexities that can occur or be deliberately configured.
Examples: the necessary steps to modify or backup SPs; debugging and repair of of SPs that are damaged/disabled.
Simplistically speaking, for every administration tool, there is at least 1 potential problem that the tool is used to correct. How many more tools are going to be included with MySQL when SPs are introduced?
Short answer, I prefer to use and teach ppl to use MySQL because it's harder to screw up and easy to fix when it's screwed up. I think SPs are a Bad Thing(tm) too. (the/. crowd loves em tho)
So how long before you give me a MySQL equivalent Perl script? Right. People would choose MySQL for speed and ease of administration (not hard to "administrate" a flat text file over a RDB), like always.
Just because you are a gamer does not mean you are a computer gamer. Some ppl like to point out that are not a gamer when it comes to their computer (like an AIX or Mac, although I'm positive many more people are Mac gamers than AIX gamers). If you've been to a gaming convention, you've probably experienced the argument over gamer semantics. There is no standard that is agreed upon AFAIK. Last convention (Strategicon) I attended was 2 years ago.
'Things like shoes, cars, and houses are all property. Property is excludable -- it is easy to prevent others from using it -- and rival -- meaning that one person's use of it will interfere with another person's use of it. Spectrum has neither characteristic.'
Hey, neither does code...why is it "intuitive" that nobody should have exclusive ownership of spectrum bands and but not logical algorithms?
I don't support licensing of colors for the same reason.
By the same method the court can impose a restraining order to the effect of a non-compete (which is what usually occurs during litigation), there must be a voluntary analog.
I'm sorry, where is the program he suggests for subsidizing weapons? While I think I can show statistical evidence that extreme gun control will create safer environments in localized areas (see Great Britain), Americans have tradtionally exibited more sadistic behaviours and justified them with (surprise) tradition (right to bear arms, blah blah blah) when faced with limited freedoms. In the end extreme gun control probably is not right for US (us heh).
The rebelling teenager archetype, is not just a cliche, it's fundamental dynamic of human psychology. Might want to think like an adult about gun control. We can't change our history, but we can take into consideration all the evidence and environmnetal factors before tossing around simplified opinions about such an issue.
I'm pro-libertarian. I believe a libertarian government would not choose to censor my vote, if I disagreed. That's enough for me. I tend to ramble.
In addition, I cannot fathom how monitoring activity TO ANY DEGREE violates basic human rights, as I am only up to snuff on the American Bill of Rights and would be hard pressed to consider privacy, a basic human right rather than a moral habit.
You are under the impression the noncompete is within the bounds of a contract, as in "employment contract" when it could just as well be a separate piece of paper outlining a civil agreement or other legally binding arrangement. As my original post indicated, I can cite no examples (as there is no reason they would ever be posted on the internet). It still sounds about right.
There is no such thing as a terrorist without a political agenda. Beyond the basic cliche "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter", terror for terror's sake is more along the lines of an anarchist. The root of a word does not define it. Good try!
P.S. Voltair was a well spoken, and is an often quoted, moron.
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I think you have it backwards, whether it's morally or even legally wrong or right is irrelevant. It's business and everything is weighed, nothing is forbidden.
Wha wha wha...Someone abusing the copywrite system for individual gain??? (notoriety/press, shareware fees), it's standard practice.
Given the number of customers the combined features garnered, as well as allowing the suite to take the undisputed lead as the office application of choice, no. It's specifically inconsequential.
Sometimes you're just too fucking funny! +1 fan!
In the real world (tm) which he alluded to as "For all practical purposes" you build and ship increasingly complex software because that's the best way to make money and that's how most successful companies run.
And so far it's worked out ok for Adobe, Microsoft, AOL, and the general public to the chagrin of the perfectionistic naysayers.
You may think that discussing the pros/cons will somehow unlock some previously unexplored vector to the basic design strategy of build->patch->upgrade->patch... but that's very unlikely as you have not added anything to either side of the argument other than stating knowns.
I'm glad to see that there is no procedural magic bullet and even MS code is still debugged the way that I've always seen it done. Trial and error
Useful Perl code probably means, you were able to mimic sed/awk operations. It's always been easier to whip up an interpreted script over a series of fault tolerant GUI functions.
(As per AC)
String[] myList = new File(filename).list();
@file = glob($filename."/*");
I dont have to be a Java programmer to guess what the first one does. I specifically have to be a Perl programmer to know what the second does.
This is a large part of what Java was trying to accomplish. What's really disconcerting is that practical experience teaches that Perl ends up more like
@name = glob($var."/*");
where you have to recognize the syntax to understand the operation.
The reason people dont program in Java is having to set up a VM to run it as the standalone programs are too slow and large.
Slow and Ineffective go hand in hand. If you dont know how slow web based mail can be, you arent qualified to open your mouth, dumbass. If you cannot check it regularly and consistently without loading times and popups/forced pre-ads as per mail.com, it's become 'both' to an appreciable degree. This is also the main reason web-based mail is not the defacto standard in the corporate environment. Hey AC, go get yourself an account, or at least a real job, kthxbye.
If you cannot afford the book, you often cannot pass the class. You cannot pass the class, you cannot renew your scholarship. You deny someone access to knowledge, it may be the knowledge that saves their lives, and certainly is not the method by which to educate...only if you have the money. Learning's most expensive when it comes from a book, which is morally wrong.
Morally wrong - as in it can be cheaply recopied by a student with no skills yet cannot be cheaply produced by a publisher who is obviously out to maximize profits. Education in the US is subsidized and mandatory. Exploiting that system is wrong. Period.
Lots of people do prey on the education system of the US, of course, and in this case I point a finger at textbook publishers. You wanna print 1 copy of a textbook per CLASSROOM and double teacher's salaries, make a class devoted to how to copy/transcribe books, you're a fucking hero. But first you gotta pry the contracts from the solid gold hands of the publishers and convince the old guard running the education system that there's a better way, and it wont get them fired. Good luck.
PHP is getting to be the same thing. I'm sure it's the unnecessarily alien (or as Larry might call it, elegant and succinct) syntax that has caused a drop in Perl usage (in terms of live code). PHP/Java/C does the same thing Perl does, but more wordy. Now Perl might have a VM? So much for the benefits of all those single character operators when they could have been using functions like everyone else.
This is a theory, not a proof.
I actually didnt know. Makes perfect sense that way. I'll shutup now. /slink
What does that response mean? Faced with a big enough threat they wont try to stay in business? What is your point other than playing devil's advocate? His points are all valid as were your responses (as limited as your experience is)...excepting this gem which made no sense.
Small companies who are successful selling computers, become big companies or go out of business. Haven't you seen this happen around your town? Oh yeah, DELL is still around but the mom and pop is gone so dont act like the underdogs always produce the better product and prosper (Apple being a debated champion of the image).
That would be an accurate assumption.
(1) triggers
(2) constraint triggers
(3) functional indexes using a user-defined function, or indexing a user-defined data type
(4) user-defined aggregate function
(5) user-defined data types
(6) stored-procedures
all ways to speed up processes through database optimized work. If your dataset is small enough, your lookups are short and this is unnecessary.
I do not use database logic when I can still comfortably recommend and setup computationally (more) powerful machines to process the logic outside the database. This is not a very realistic view because of the practical limits of OS/App transactions (funny how that works out), but the right way to do it theoretically.
As a Commodore64 never quite did what I wanted, I didn't purchase or use one and if I find myself in a position where I cannot solve a problem using my paradigms, I am comfortable abdicating my position to someone who has, what is considered, a more progressive view. I'm a specialized kind of tool (pun) in this respect..
I dont believe app vendors are the people suffering from the "upgrade". I'm talking about the small business who has no reliable tech support or the average joe who finds he seems to have a systemic problem that randomly affects applications he runs.
Your just decide to implement a 100% turnaround in how your OS policy worked before (without making a big deal of it, of course...I'm sure it was documented somewhere). This is almost akin to "Oh yeah, and XP only reads DOS partitions now...er again...er yeah, just like you wanted!". This blunder is complicated by MS applications not always documenting what ports they are using because that's proprietary information and of course you can always buy the product and ask the licensed technical support.
When mentioning "ease" of administration, this includes but is not limited to the potential complexities that can occur or be deliberately configured.
/. crowd loves em tho)
Examples: the necessary steps to modify or backup SPs; debugging and repair of of SPs that are damaged/disabled.
Simplistically speaking, for every administration tool, there is at least 1 potential problem that the tool is used to correct. How many more tools are going to be included with MySQL when SPs are introduced?
Short answer, I prefer to use and teach ppl to use MySQL because it's harder to screw up and easy to fix when it's screwed up. I think SPs are a Bad Thing(tm) too. (the
So how long before you give me a MySQL equivalent Perl script? Right. People would choose MySQL for speed and ease of administration (not hard to "administrate" a flat text file over a RDB), like always.
Just because you are a gamer does not mean you are a computer gamer. Some ppl like to point out that are not a gamer when it comes to their computer (like an AIX or Mac, although I'm positive many more people are Mac gamers than AIX gamers). If you've been to a gaming convention, you've probably experienced the argument over gamer semantics. There is no standard that is agreed upon AFAIK. Last convention (Strategicon) I attended was 2 years ago.
I don't support licensing of colors for the same reason.
By the same method the court can impose a restraining order to the effect of a non-compete (which is what usually occurs during litigation), there must be a voluntary analog.
I'm sorry, where is the program he suggests for subsidizing weapons? While I think I can show statistical evidence that extreme gun control will create safer environments in localized areas (see Great Britain), Americans have tradtionally exibited more sadistic behaviours and justified them with (surprise) tradition (right to bear arms, blah blah blah) when faced with limited freedoms. In the end extreme gun control probably is not right for US (us heh).
The rebelling teenager archetype, is not just a cliche, it's fundamental dynamic of human psychology. Might want to think like an adult about gun control. We can't change our history, but we can take into consideration all the evidence and environmnetal factors before tossing around simplified opinions about such an issue.
I'm pro-libertarian. I believe a libertarian government would not choose to censor my vote, if I disagreed. That's enough for me. I tend to ramble.
In addition, I cannot fathom how monitoring activity TO ANY DEGREE violates basic human rights, as I am only up to snuff on the American Bill of Rights and would be hard pressed to consider privacy, a basic human right rather than a moral habit.
You are under the impression the noncompete is within the bounds of a contract, as in "employment contract" when it could just as well be a separate piece of paper outlining a civil agreement or other legally binding arrangement. As my original post indicated, I can cite no examples (as there is no reason they would ever be posted on the internet). It still sounds about right.
There is no such thing as a terrorist without a political agenda. Beyond the basic cliche "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter", terror for terror's sake is more along the lines of an anarchist. The root of a word does not define it. Good try!
P.S. Voltair was a well spoken, and is an often quoted, moron.