Slashdot Mirror
Olympics to Have Massive Surveillance Network
sharkdba writes "CNN has an article about Olympic digital security. This should be of interest to /. readers since it's a supposedly largest surveillance network ever. Thousands of cameras are combined with software (AI agents?) to look for anomalies. Also words are parsed (scan equivalent to OCR). I understand the idea that if you're in public expect no privacy, but even CNN says: 'Although the state's right to take all necessary measures that it deems necessary is recognized, there is fear that these measures will have a negative impact on basic human rights.'"
I can just see the guys behind the cameras rushing to change their bets when the people favored to win complains to their coach about their sore legs or what not.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
What does this have to do with my rights online?
So when is surveillance acceptable? What level of surveillance is acceptable? Under what conditions? Why is any attempt at surveillance for the clear purpose of the protection of peoples' lives and safety always variously called a violation human rights (!) or an invasion of privacy, while there would inevitably be shrill cries of "not enough was done" if something did happen? Why do the naysayers never have any better alternatives, but just negative comments? I may sound sarcastic, but these are serious questions. I realize there is a balance, and that the debate is valuable, but seriously: do people ever recognize the hypocrisy of criticizing every action taken, while simultaneously saying "not enough was done" when something *does* happen? (And yes, it is very often the very same group of people.)
Even today, the US was criticized for not responding adequately (or publicly, previous to this point) to the threat of terrorists potentially using tourist helicopters as weapons (or for delivery of a weapon), by the same group of people who attacked the recent public release of critical intelligence threat information as purely politically motivated. (Think about this for a second: if the local authorities in New York and DC were simply told secretly about the newly obtained threat information, as they *most certainly* should have been, the information would DEFINITELY have leaked to the press once it hit local authorities and local police agencies, who would then DEMAND that DHS reveal the full nature of the information - a lose/lose situation [and it doesn't matter that the information was "old" - it's well, well known that attacks are planned years in advance, as in the case of 9/11]. So instead, DHS reveals the information, and targets threat information as locally as possible, and they're crucified for releasing it exclusively for political reasons.)
Please, try to give real answers (not in the form of a Ben Franklin quotation).
(Also, "CNN" doesn't say that last quote; it was attributed to six "human rights groups" who wrote a letter of protest to the Greek government.)
1.5bn cost versus 3,000,000 tickets sold = $500 per spectator spent in security.
How are these Games supposed to make money?
If words are parsed, other official might be interested in such surveillance, for instance, to keep track of bookies, or for (human) traffic management.
Uselessful technology (Air-Charged
There is very little you can do to stop fanatics who are willing to die.
I was in Boston during the DNC. The security was an absolute joke. Anyone could have gotten on the public transport system or rented a large truck and blown up a low-value (but still prominent) target.
There is really nothing that can be done in a free society. They're gonna' get us.
..I'm not interested. I mean, they do have security cameras in the female facilities.. right?
"An infinite number of monkeys typing into GNU emacs would never make a good program."
...the games are not being played in the USA...
no sig
How many people they will find picking their butts.
It's probably a blessing in disguise that Athens took so long to finish preparations for the olympics. Since it is said Al Qaeda spends years preparing for an attack, I don't think anything big will happen at the olympics. That's also the kind of thing a bunch of cameras won't do shit against.
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
Since we in the US will not be able to see it without paying some jackass company a bunch of money and still not be able to see it live, I wonder if we can tap into the surveilance network? :)
... If this can prevent security breaches, then I'm all for it. Its being used for the Olympics, not for the average street.
An organiser of the games can take whatever steps they feel necessary to ensure the safety of the crowd and the athletes of the games.
I'm not sure about anyone else, but I would rather be followed about on camera and be safe, than to have no cameras, and end up killed by some form of security breach.
NeoThermic
Use my link above, or to view my server, NeoThermic.com
I understand the need for security, but the problem with measures like this, is that once people become accustomed to seeing cameras everywhere, it's very easy to just leave them in place. Over time, more and more of our freedoms are sacrificed in the name of security, creating a society of fear, and a "Big Brother" situation in government. This is what the defined goal of terrorism is, to instill terror, to make us sleep with one eye open. Extremists will never win through conventional warfare, but through a series of calculated clandestine attacks, they can influence politics, make or break presidential elections, and sway popular opinion. We are playing right into their trap.
Why is posted in YRO. Perhaps Michael, like many slashdotters has forgotten that YRO stands for "Your Rights Online". This has nothing to do with anyone's rights online.
I would consider millions (billions?) of people, all over the world, watching the games on television and the Internet to be a pretty massive surveillance network.
... half of the 5.3 million tickets are still unsold.
Agents looking for the anomaly? Sounds like a hack sci-fi social commentary movie. Someone cue Ellison, I think they need to contact The Oracle.
This just seems too intrusive. Has biometrics proven itself enough for people to spend fortunes implementing such things? Sure, the olympics is a high-profile event that probably requires some over-the-top deterrance, but this?
Unfortunately, I'm not alone in my inability to find the elusive balance between security and privacy.
I'm surprised it's taken this many comments to mention agent smith. :) Maybe the games will be concluded by a badly choreographed CG fight in the rain between a tree stump and one of these `agents'....all done in the best possible taste of course.
Boo.
'Although the state's right to take all necessary measures that it deems necessary is recognized, there is fear that these measures will have a negative impact on basic human rights.'"
WTF?
Constitutional Amendment 28:
"The state shall have the right to take all necessary measures that it deems necessary."
May we never see th
Security?
Considering the only branded foods available on ground will be, namely, McDonalds and Coke I don't think how this will fare well for spectators. My stomach feels insecure after eating that garbage! I feel sorry for everybody else. All the special forces, police, etc won't be able to help there. Maybe they need more doctors on hand or perhaps some dieticians?
...it would make more economic sense to not admit anyone, CGI the crowds in for broadcast, and pocket the 1.3B you didn't spend on security.
I forget what 8 was for.
Well I don't know about human rights, but I bet that the security guards who get to keep an eye on the women's gymnastic events from 100 different angles are pretty happy.
from article "Although the state's right to take all necessary measures that it deems necessary is recognized, there is fear that these measures will have a negative impact on basic human rights.'" Where was CNN's sense of moral concern when the so called
Patriot act was being passed?
This sort of thing will become pervasive. In the 50s it was the Red Scare and "commies". This time around it is "terrorists". "Homeland security" will be used as an excuse to futher the Orwellian state.
The only hope is to accept it and subvert it from the inside. The more digital this stuff gets, the easier it is to fuck with it.
Lets get to fucking.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Although the level of security will be so high as to probably induce paranoia, I believe people will still be afraid of the looming threat of terrorist attacks. We're talking about a city here, with all it's dynamics and movement, not to mention the extra jillion people that will be there, each with his or her own agenda and places to be. I can't help but think that it's not enough, but what is?
After reading the article, I'm far less concerned about the cameras at the Olympics than I am about the other measures they've taken such as scanning phone communications (both mobile and land line) as well as monitoring e-mail, images and other electronic traffic. It seems to me that that kind of stuff is really what crosses the line. Ridiculous surveillance in public is one thing, but extreme surveillance of private communication is entirely another.
With the excessive corporate sponsorship(okay that never stopped), the banning of non-sponsored products, the excessive surveillance, the silly Draconian laws enacted over what city takes place in, blah blah blah.... ...honestly, screw the Olympics.
I have no intentions of watching them, and I'm just waiting for the IOC secret police to make their first arrests to someone who erects a "screwtheolympics.org" website.
Ha ha ha! So funny!
Very funny when you keep the police working on false alarms and then Athens go BOOM!
Ticket sales to this Olympics are dismal. You don't HAVE to submit to the surveillance. You can stay home, like lots of other people.
Does anyone else find the idea of software scanning for anomalous behavior at what will most likely be a huge Greek party pretty funny? Ever been to a Greek party? (or at least seen My Big Fat Greek Wedding?)
It all looked pretty anomalous to me.
this sig deleted by another sig
fear works. all the terrorists have to do is manage to blow up one high-level target every couple of years and then just sit back as the West smothers itself in its own security blanket.
with people like you, any system will be doomed ot failiure. makes me wonder, do you also write viruses that target emergency telephone lines to have some 'fun with it'? you are indeed a sick moron in today's world.
i'm sure the vendors (no, not just the hotdog guy on the corner, i mean the gucci's, nike's, mcdonald's etc. that show up too) have to pay a fee (or nine!). :-)
As someone mentioned in the earlier posts, all it takes is someone willing to die for their "cause". As far as I am concerned that is all the more reason to hunt every last one of the bastards down; before they have a chance to organize anything remotely similar to September 11th anyplace else in the world.
When did it become acceptable for countries to send professional teams to what is supposedly an amateur competition? By what mechanism does, for instance, the USA get to send NBA stars as its basketball team? How widespread has this practice become?
Tubal-Cain smokes the white owl.
I don't blame 'em for the tight security. There's bound to be a terrorist attack (actually saw it in a dream).
You can be whatever you want to be - even furnature.
Although I see every reason in the world for them with fanatics using their primitive superstitions to murder as many as they can when they can.
You are NOT guaranteed total anonymity everywhere all the time. Why is this so freakin hard to understand?
Really, come on. If you're out in public, and you commit a crime, you have every right to be caught and punished. If you're not commiting crimes, you have nothing to worry about. This Big Brother paranoia is sickening.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
If there are specific public areas that are considered highly desireable targets, then it's only prudent to have correspondingly high security, even if it's intrusive (I'm speaking generally). Especially in a place like this, where nobody's putting a gun to your head and saying "go to the olympics" (especially since Uday Hussein is no longer in charge of the the Iraqi teams) - attending the Olympics is a purely optional pursuit, and people can make an informed choice as to whether or not to subject themselves to the additional scrutiny. Think of it as a privacy trade-off, just as you consider the financial trade-offs of attending a relatively expensive event such as this.
Life is full of such trade-offs, and as long as people are allowed to make informed choices - especially in activities such as this that are purely optional - I don't see what the big deal is. If you don't like it, stay home. HDTV probably gives you a better view anyway!
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
...the Greeks had civil rights to begin with....
Looks like there maybe a bigger problem. About half of the 6 million tickets have only been sold so far, only 200k last week. They are hoping to sell the rest by this Friday! www.drudgereports.com has an article about it.
http://www.leadmagnet.50megs.com
Basically $1.5bn dollars was what the games were supposed to cost. That was sort of covered by the European Union, Sponsors, and Greece. The final cost was closer to a $3bn price, due to the mismanagement and the corruption of the previous government.
That extra $1.5bn is going straight to the taxpayers.. I expect that my country will not be able to get over this debt for the next 25 years.
Still, I expect that no foreigner can understand how much to these games mean to us. I am greatly looking forward to them!!!
PS: It also goes without saying that all the greek construction companies will be doomed on the post-olympics era since no major projects are going to take place in the forthcoming years...
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
That's the problem as I see it.
Let's face a hard fact: it is impossible to defend against fanatics who are willing to die. We can make it more difficult to accomplish certain types of attacks in certain places, but we will always leave countless avenues wide open for spectacular attacks.
That's why I see a this type of security as counterproductive and wasteful. Public officials are just covering their butts. Disparage Franklin all you want, but we really could be giving up essential liberty for some temporary safety.
Here's a good article examining the problem. The author shares my pessimism:
http://www.policyreview.org/aug04/laqueur.html
We are going to have to live for this for the rest of our lives, and 'living with it' means accepting that an entire city will periodically wiped out. If losing a city every ten years or so is the worst that happens, I say we will be getting off easy. A bioweapon release is what is truly horrifying.
Fanatical muslims are not rational. They are not long term thinkers. They have not thought beyond 'crushing our skulls'. They have not thought about what the world would be like even if they succeeded in exterminating 99% of westeners.
If they aren't going to have those buildings under the same conditions of hightened security until they have reliable intelligence that the threat is passed, then they've clearly used the intelligence development as a political attention getter. Why? If they have no reason to think that the attack is immenent, why spend the precious security resources on what is essentially a wild gamble when, a quiet increase in vigilence would not only be far cheaper, but much more effective over a much longer period of time, and hide the quality or inadaquacy of our intelligence gathering abilities from those who would harm us?
They had no information that the attack would happen "soon," but still somehow that was "the day" people should be extra vigilent? And nothing happened.
With information like that the government, through their communications people, should be as accurate and precise as possible about what the threat is, and all that they know about it. Anything short of this, is bullshit, and a waste of time. A hundred or so people are going to die in traffic accidents on any given day anyway, they might be better off with a reminder to drive safe.
Fact is Bush does give a crap about security. Of the billions how many have gone to increasing staffing of border control agents? Hell, just put the national guard out there on live fire training excersises where they just shoot the hell out of anything crossing illegally. That's cheap and politically popular across much of the country. Not so popular in Mexico, or Canada, but they don't do much voting in US elections. Instead Bush wants to give them all drivers licenses. Great. Now the terrorists don't even have to risk forging or bribing people to get needed identification. Way to go Captain Security.
Should move to New Zealand, all the papers (both of them) are screaming about the lack of labour, and the lowlowlow unemployment rate (4%)
GENERAL PUBLIC SIGNATURE (GPS) Any replies (derivatives) of this post must also use the GPS
From the original article:
"The Olympic Games are accompanied with extended security measures that are unprecedented for Greece," six human rights groups said in a protest letter to Greek Parliament in July. "Although the state's right to take all necessary measures that it deems necessary is recognized, there is fear that these measures will have a negative impact on basic human rights."
From the slashdot article:
but even CNN says: 'Although the state's right to take all necessary measures that it deems necessary is recognized, there is fear that these measures will have a negative impact on basic human rights.'
It is not CNN saying these things, it is "six human rights groups" from Greece.
sig's not here
There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in the world because there never was one to begin with. You can't lose something you never had. We live in a web of interconnecting lives. Our actions have long-reaching effects on others, as theirs do on ours. The idea that a single man may live as a hermit in the midst of the civilized world is both absurd and problematic for being such a popular idea. Privacy doctrine in this country has existed for one purpose: shielding domestic violence from public scrutiny. The whole private-sphere/public-sphere distinction arose so that some men could prevent other men from interfering in what they manage to pull off behind closed doors. Marital rape and worse violences have always been justified as located in the mystical private sphere. As you cling to the arbitrary notion of privacy, you're doing little more than empowering men to rape and torture women. It's time we got rid of the private/public distinction. No one ever had any actual privacy; merely artificially imposed curtains that conceal malicious actions by some against others. If this does anything to undermine public respect for such a morally bankrupt institution as privacy, then I'm all for it.
Let's not forget that one can hate his government, but love his country.
I don't believe the claim that the software they use can, in general, "see and hear." Software agents can "see" and "hear" only in a very specific sense. For example, using Motion, you can capture only the frames that are "interesting," i.e., with some things moving. Some existing vision technology allow the recognition of large areas of exposure (visible light or infra red), like that caused by an explosion. It may be able to count cars and see if they're moving. I know of a project at my school to recognize faces in partial images (taken by uncalibrated cameras) in a conference room and see how many distinguished individuals are actually present.
As for sound, I accept that there are speech recognition software for many languages available nowadays, but none of them are good enough because: (1) You have to speak in a certain way for good recognition (no biting tongue, clear prenounciation, clear word break, standard accent), and (2) The ambient (on the streets) where the samples are taken is too noisy.
I think the way CNN runs this article is misleading of the current state of technology. It might be the case the their reporter doesn't understand the press release well, or that the reporter just wants to write something cool. Maybe they want to scare the public too. Shame on them.
I once had a signature.
You cannot have both a free society and be free from terrorist attacks. It is impossible. The more "security" you add the more Orwellian your government becomes.
A balence must be struck. And IMO it should be struck further toward "freedom" than it is being currently.
Some food for thought:
Dorothy Thompson:
"When liberty is taken away by force it can be restored by force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default it can never be recovered."
John Adams:
"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty."
Wendell Phillips:
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
And the ever popular Benjamin Franklin:
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"
If you don't want anyone to catch you in public watching the olympics, then stay home with your tin foil hats and bandolier full of TV remote controls. Don't try watching the olympics on TV at the mall either, because somebody else in the store might be pointing a camcorder right at you.
+++
Main Entry: terrorism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
Propeganda? WTF?
Of course the defined goal of terror is to instill terror. Its the f*cking definition of the word.
You can debate whether or not a given person is a terrorist, but you can't debate what a terrorist is.
1. Screw up The Peoples` minds and rights by starting a terrorist attack.
2. See them destroy themselves by underpinning their own decleration of rights and other legal documents.
3. Let them induce anger and negative opinions towards their country by forcing other countries to follow their lead, thus causing world-wide political unease.
4. Profit.
"All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
Uh, this was meant more as a comment on racial profiling and the fact that people get alarmed FAR too quickly. Guess it succeeded...
Much of this stuff is just "security theater", as Bruce Schnier puts it, anyway.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
bwaaaahhh!! sniff!! my privacy rights!! oh mon dieu, this can't be happening, it's madness, how they dare to watch over suspicious moves and god forbids, get to the point of arresting an indefense poor little potential terrorist??? let us keep whining about this and other ridiculous privacy concerns like cctv cameras, rfid tags, etc. Viva la gay privacy avenger!!
This Olympic surveillence is not just "any attempt at surveillence", it's "supposedly [the] largest surveillance network ever". People are concerned about the protection of our basic human rights, because we don't trust the government. Governments do bad things, always have, probably always will. America was founded on distrust of the government, which spread around the world once we demonstrated how to build a better government based on the mitigations of that distrust.
Terrorist attacks don't just "happen". In the case of Al Qaeda's WTC planebombings, their organization was created and protected by the CIA. There was a great deal of information available to prevent the attacks, but the expensive, intrusive government structure that we pay and elect to protect us failed. The result has been not only the counterattacks on these terrorists, that they accept as the price of sowing chaos, but the increase in the oppressive power of our government.
That distrust of government is the unifying factor between the questions of "acceptable surveillence" you started asking, and your defense of DHS (that you drifted into) in their release of Al Qaeda info this past week, in conjunction with raising the Threat Level in NYC and DC. In early July, reporters predicted that Bush would produce a Pakistani terrorist during the Democratic National Convention, as he had asked. Bush asked for someone, the Pakistanis produced someone, DHS waited several days to announce it. *Hours* before Kerry's acceptance speech, and prematurely for intelligence purposes, slashing the terrorist's value as a double agent, and sending capturable terrorists into hiding. The importance of the pre-9/11 plans reportedly siezed in Pakistan, that were invoked to explain the new security measures in NYC and DC, are apparently higher than in Las Vegas, where similar info has caused no escalation, nor even notification of the city. The difference is that NYC is the site of the Republican National Convention this month, and DC is of course the perennial focus of both parties.
It doesn't take much all-American distrust of the government to see the appropriation of terrorism by the government to campaign for reelection, regardless of the cost in protecting us from terrorism. That's consistent with the government's appropriation of terrorism to get the war in Iraq they wanted. And that same government will use surveillence for all its other purposes, mainly perpetuation of its power, regardless of the cost in basic human rights, including liberty, and even life itself.
We're not facing some theoretical Constitutional scenario. We're facing vast abuses of our rights daily, on a scale only before imagined by paranoids. Small wonder that we are kicking back. And our fear is underscored, because we *need* the government to protect us from the actual threat of these terrorists. So we reject the actual destruction of our rights, while we search for ways to continue to protect us from the threat of terrorism. That seems sensible, and patriotic, to me.
--
make install -not war
I was at the Salt Lake Winter Olympics, and that happened right after 9/11, so we were told that the security was even greater than it had been in the previous olympics. The point is that in order to prevent yet another tragedy, such measures were entirely *necessary*.
Since an event like the Olympics draws people from different parts of the world, conflict is bound to arise in some form or the other, given the fact that many nations are not exactly at peace with a lot of other nations (ourselves included). So it doesnt even have to be a terrorist-related threat that may push up security to new levels: anticipating & preventing anything from happening is the main objective of such operations.
In the light of this, I fail to understand why people would then want to drag privacy issues in the middle of all this. If you want real privacy, go shut yourself into a cave or a bunker and cut yourself from the rest of the world. Privacy in your home & privacy in a public place are entirely different things. If you step out onto the street, you are in a public place, and therefore need to redefine your expectations of privacy in that place. Realistically, the two will never be the same.
You identify the terrorism problem as only a Muslim/Arab problem. Kill all the Arabs and no more terrorism, right? Sorry.
While today terrorism mainly does spring from Islamic fanaticism, this does not mean it always will.
So then, after you've finished fantasizing about turning the Middle East into a smoldering radioactive graveyard, ruminate a little about the backlash that this action will create. If you think the Islamofascists hate us, just imagine the hate bubbling in the hearts of the new breed of terrorists that will arise out of the ashes to avenge this crime against humanity.
There are no easy solutions. We will have to live with this.
Obviously, the defined goal of terror is coercion. Terror is the means, not the end. The end is a change in whatever situation is making the terrorist angry enough to resort to terrorism.
Saying that terror itself is the goal of terrorism sounds like propaganda because it gives a Government a great excuse to remove some freedoms in order to guard against "terror" so that the people don't have to be afraid.
IMHO.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
"Although the state's right to take all necessary measures that it deems necessary is recognized, there is fear that these measures will have a negative impact on basic human rights." ...Until that snack truck(s) blows up in the middle of a crowd, killing and maiming scores of people while raining lunchen meat down upon the shell-shocked masses. Then we can create an 'Olympic Investigation Commision' to slog through this farce again, wasting tax-payer dollars to lament on the couldwouldshouldas and the need to create an omni-potent 'Olympic Intelligence' czar to prevent future attacks, while politizing the entire investigation and turning up token results.
Sorry, but I gotta pass on this one. It's the freakin Olympics. If survellience at the public games is the worst "human rights" violation you can come up with, pardon me if I sleep in tommorow. People suffer worse invasions of their privacy stepping into casinos anywhere in the world.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Terrorist notifed as to what areas of the olympics will be "rights positive". These areas will be free of "rights imposing" things like security and suveilance, who might look at you, thereby profile you, etc.
The "rights negative" area will also be in effect, for people who will submit themselves to tyranny and the like. Those who believe that security and surveilance are good things will be ushered to a secure area to view the games.
It will be no extra charge for the secure area to view the "fireworks show" on the insecure side.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
Like most such systems, I doubt this system works at all. We can't even get network intrusion detection systems to examine packets at this scale without tons of false positives -- you're telling me SAIC can make a *human* intrusion system that's worth a damn? Real time recording, parsing and scanning of the conversations of millions of visitors? I don't buy it.
Check out this Bruce Schneier interview from Newsweek where he talks about real security vs security theatre. He basically says that surveillance, ID cards etc just provide an illusion of security (especially when limited to only a few sites: secure the olympic statium and they'll bomb the subway, or the CBD, or the stock exchange etc). Real security in the context of terrorism comes from better intelligence gathering and better spooks.
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
This only so they can catch people wearing Nike t-shirts.
This is not surprising at all. The olympics are Greece's opportunity in the international spotlight. The United States made a fool out of itself in 1996 with the bombing incident and other fiascos. The olympics tend to spur huge gains in tourism for a good number of years after their completion. Makes sense that they would not want to jeopardize this.
Considering all the money that's been spent on the Olympics I find this a bit disappointing. Anyone getting HD or 16:9 coverage outside of Aus?
One of these days I'm moving to Theory - everything works there
violated at the Olympics is already using too much air.
Hey, and you survived the Olympics too without being terrorized. The beefed up security, I'll bet, is why nothing happened - but if something did then it would be because someone got in without an eartag and justyfing preying on ppls insecurity to sell a billion $ worth of new equipment.
Ppl kill for money, btw.
That last bit should have read "NOT act as a tool . . ." Damn hasty preview. Our nation has never been perfect (Native American genocide, slavery, etc.) but at least there has always been a strong element of idealism and respect for fellow man. These days, even that gets drowned out by greed, lust and a deep mistrust of anyone that's not yourself. It can't go on like this for long.
harmonious design
At some point, customers get fed up. Lollapolloza - dead. Comdex -dead. United Airlines - near bankrupcy. Now, the Olympics.
...this time, the 'bad guys' are really blowing stuff up. Purposely targeting civilians. You think they'll be nice guys and just stop because a few troops leave? Must be a nice view through those rosy glasses.
Want to fuck with something? Want to really help the situation?
Fuck with their stuff. Get the fools blowing stuff up to actually stop doing that. Subvert them from the inside.
You game? Or are you just after the geek street cred from hacking a surveillance cam?
Maybe they are just feeling left out since most of the events are skewed toward the rich, industrialized, western world. How many suicide bombers do you think play tennis or do triple gainers from 10 meter diving boards? And the only floor exercises their women know is rolling on them while being beaten with a stick for trying to learn to read. I tell you, if the Olympic committee would just add a few token events that Arab muslims could excel in then I am sure they would step forward, hold hands, and sing "Feed The World" with the rest of the athletes. Come on, what would be the harm in handing out a few medals for playing Polo with camels, rifle butts, and an infidels head? Or a "muslim wedding party" freestyle event where teams fire machine guns into the air while playing random notes on a trumpet? And forget about Syncronized Swimming. Palestine will have a lock on the all new Synchronized Exploding. Everyone knows that hurting others is a sign of low self esteem and just think how good Muhamed will feel about himself after taking home the gold in the Decapitathalon. World peace is right around the corner. IOC members, are you listening?
Liberals call everyone Nazis yet they are the closest thing to it.
why not just have the IOC kick the US and Britain out of the games? The terrorist organizations targeting them and their foreign embassies, troops, and military bases are cowardly and evil, and their actions go far beyond protecting sovereignty. But the "coaltion"'s own military and economic imperialism proved to be unacceptable to the UN, I don't see why we should allow them to compete in friendly international competitions when their leaders are fomenting war, religious discord, and empire-building. Increasingly invasive security like this is has only become a reality because Bush and previous leaders chose to spread their influence outside their own states and lead a nebulous, neverending 'war on terror.' Sit down and read 1984 if you haven't. If we have the war, the terrorists, and the hated enemy figure, it's no surprise that security and surveillance will be high to protect the public from dissidents, and people will be scared to travel or gather in large groups without said security; eventually losing the will to risk any travel.
...On totally missing his point.
Well, he shouldn't have anything to hide in private either, right? Right?!?
Sounds an awful lot like the 1950s, doesn't it?
You'd find that a lot of Islamic people would like these terrorists dead too. Work with these people and cut off the terrorists' oxygen from *both* sides of the equation -- stomp on them hard, but also make it easier for the moderate Moslems to portray co-operation with the West as a good idea.
Nothing to see here. Basically a corporation suckers them in to over paying for some microphones and tape recorders. Really no different than Oracle charging California $90 million for some software. I highly doubt the technology is really as advanced as it is hyped.
From the article:
Last I looked, speech to text technology wasn't even close to being capable of "transcribing" speech from arbritary speakers (i.e. not trained for that speaker, uncontrolled volcabulary, etc) - let alone a number of them simultaneously in a noisy environment. No doubt the NSA does have some impressive technology in this area that is far ahead of what is publicaly known about. Is there some recent advance in this area I'm not aware of? This particular technology is something I'm extremely interested in, and I would dearly love to know how well this system of theirs works (if it even exists - I'm highly skeptical). Can anyone shed more light on this?
That's my preference... it's mentioned in the interview too:
You can imagine living in a community where the landlord keeps hornets' nests, and he keeps whacking the nests. And then he keeps telling you, you need to buy protective clothing. He's right, but I wish he'd stop whacking the nest.
Vino, gyno, and techno -Bruce Sterling
How many more Olympics until I can finally watch water polo on my computer?
Any foreign TV stations broadcast their channel over the internet that just happen to be covering the Olympics?
Thanks,
Peter
Reguardless of the reasons we're in Iraq, I do believe that a great deal of the American government and people are trying their damned best to get the people over there to be a free society; free from the supression and torture of the past so many years.
Actually, the guerrilla war in Iraq is beneficial to US interests. The US can keep oil flowing out as long as the oil infrastructure is in place. It's strange that al Qaeda and friends have not blown up the oil infrastructure, but instead rely on blowing up people.
Notice, that as long as the country is in a chaotic state (insurgents, al Qaeda bombers, and so on), the Iraqi people cannot take control on something as crucial as oil production.
Yes, communism and fundamental islam (islamism) have many things in common:
1. Founded by a single visionary with a grand idea
2. Based on a principle of aggressive assimilation
3. Quickly co-opted by opportunists who used the system to sieze personal gains.
4. Built grand political structures in an attempt to overwhelm other cultures
5. Did/will collapse like a house of cards when it encounters a societal/economic structure based upon personal freedom.
6. Has only one cure: destruction by implosion (though a strategically placed nudge doesn't hurt)
Human rights? Oh, spare me. Talk about invasion of privacy if you want, but don't diminish important phrases for the sake of sniping at the people who are working so hard to prevent a terrorist attack.
Have we already forgotten the terrorist attacks at the Munich Olympics of 1972? The explosion at the Atlanta Olympics of 1996? Anybody remember 9/11? 3/11? (Spain) Anybody seen the news lately? No, the one-sided hype on yro.slashdot.org doesn't count.
It understands lots of natural languages... But I'm curious if it understands Klingon... And I don't say this to be flip - I say it to make the point that no matter how many languages the system understands, someone can always invent a language that it does not understand.
All I have to do is agree on a set of code words with my buddy, and the system is fucked... go ahead, listen....
Or what if there's 1000 people who all agree to fee the Echelon-esque system some food for an hour by dialing each other up and reading from a list of words... Those of us who are old Usenet gurus will certainly recall the NSA food tag lines on certain posts...
WD 40 does wonders on lenses too... blurs them out... wonder how the system will deal with that?
Perhaps it can handle one or two blips... but what if there's a concerted effort to fuck this thing up? Just like death by 1000 cuts maybe it will crash?
I for one don't buy for one second that *anything* can be done to prevent the terrorists from getting in if they want to. Even if everyone came in butt naked, some jerk would stick a bomb up his ass beforehand and detonate it within the crowd...
Someone had to make the "unforgable" documents... is that person well-paid and above reproach? Or does s/he have a family that can be kidnapped and held ransom for a few of the unforgable cards? Maybe s/he's single and just needs $$$... Maybe s/he is being blackmailed...
See where I'm going with this? The whole thing is fucking bullshit. It can't work. Won't work. And it ought not to be done. What will be more effective would be to issue everyone attending the games an M15 or AK47 with 1000 rounds of ammo... I guarantee you - little if any bullshit will happen with an entire crowd armed like that... No invasion to privacy... no problems...
Oh well, I suppose I'll just stay home and keep my $$$ in the bank...
Where, like life in a true village, everyone knows what you're doing.
Maybe if you add Orwell and McLuhan together you get a true picture of where we are heading. This will either be very terrible or very funny.
As a Coca-Cola honcho for Greece attended this year's Bilderberg meeting, I wonder if there will be something in the water?
I did not say muslims. I specified islamists meaning islamic fundamentalist suicide bomber types. I understand that there are millions of muslims in this world who wish these nut jobs would just go kill themselves quietly in a corner. I also understand that muslims who choose to ignore the problem are complicit with those who would blow up women and children in a street market.
I'm a pro-life Catholic, but if I knew someone from my church was planning to blow up a Planned Parenthood I would do everything in my power to stop them. This is not about politics, this is not about religion, this is not about power. This is about the rule of law and the responsibility of every human being to be a contributing member of society at large. That means the dual responsibility of respecting others rights while ensuring that other people stay within their boundaries.
Sounds like capitalism to me too.
Any terrorist with any competence (hard to find, I know, but some must exist somewhere) will not be in the least deterred by a bunch of cameras - unless he happens to look EXACTLY like Osama bin Laden.
In the immortal words of Wulfgar (Rutger Hauer doing his Carlos the Jackal impression) in the movie "Nighthawks", "Remember - there is no security."
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
All this talk about removal of basic human rights whilst the USA forces foreign visitors to give biometric data at Customs & Immigration just to enter their f-ing country. Who's the one violating basic human rights on a wide scale again?
Don't mind me. If you think I'm acting strangely, it's only because I've been holding in my urine for the last 12 hours, too afraid to perform for the urine cam.
My mom was at the salt lake Olympics... she had recently seen on the news that they would have snipers perched throughout the venues. She whispered into my uncles ear "I wonder where the snipers are" instantly it was obvious that all the security in the area starting watching them. This lasted all day as they moved from venue to venue constantly being watched. The on the way home they were followed by unmarked ford explored to my uncles home in salt lake. There was a government car out front all night long. They finally left when they saw my mother help my aunt into the car (she has ms). Needless to say everyone was freaked out. I can't imagine how much better the tech has gotten since then?
http://www.DaveNet.biz/
It's pretty sad, but it is simple, don't go.
Can anyone even visualize what it must have been like back in the roman days to have visited the olympics? Now can you imagine what that person would think if [s]he visited the last olympics? (Wasn't there a bomb went off?)
Oh but Rome fell, burned, was a miserable failure.
I wonder, are we building another ROME?!
Sadly, I never really cared about the olympics, I'd rather drink an Oly.
damn i wish i'd saved my mod points for this post.
That's over the top! Nobody wants to go to the f---in thing. I always wondered wtf was so damn important about watching sports. People are so stupid, lets spend all our taxpayer money on some stupid sports BS, lets build a GIANT fucking arena in SACRAMENTO, And??? And RAISE TAX, ADD CAMERAS , etc.
It ain't even worth the fscking hassle anymore. Our country tis not the sweet land of Liberty, Our country is fucking LOST! We already lost the fucking game, Like some have suggested perhaps the only hope now is to be assimilated then DESTROY the fucking bullshit from the inside out.
I've seen this "tech" as well, and I know first-hand it is far away from anything CNN says it is. Facial-recognition doesn't work from further than a few feet and only if the subject is fairly motionless relative to the camera, and it is easily fooled by glasses, hats, and make-up. Object tracking is kludgy. Camera OCR only works if the font is fairly blocky and the letters are fairly big on screen. Not to mention that all of this assumes ideal conditions -- which will be next to impossible in the real world ("No, wait... stop moving! Turn that scrap of paper the other way.. Now come closer... closer.. closer.. *bonk* too close! now back up...")
But you can't blame the governments for making you THINK they can.
You definetly have no principles whatsoever.
I wouldn't mind to be killed by some terorist or local fuckup, if this has to happen. But instead I get a lot of annoyance, security that question me what color my underpants is and by fearing the "TERRORISTS" give them a perfect cover for any fuckups they will make.
"The terrorists ate my homework!"
Well. The CNN article seems like a blatent plug for SAIC. Since I live here (and have done for a long time) I'll comment.
/. people saw it, but there was a big fuss about the non delivery of the SAIC led consortium's C4 integration software. Maybe it only got reported in the local athens press, but from what I can gather it was "yet another big (software) project turns rotten". I'll try to go back in time to check and post if I can nail that one...
1. The blimp only works when there is no wind. That doesn't happen a lot given the heat driven wind from the local geography (the attic plain is surrounded by mountains a la LA). Today and yesterday we didn't have any wind so I could have got some great shots
of the blimp (why no markings eh?)... Too damn hot
without that wind. Hope it picks up otherwise we'll see some horribly dehydrated athletes...
2. I don't know if
3. I'm more worried about the 'net' staying intact locally. We just had yet another "net brownout". Panic. The worst terrorist scenario is in your mind. If you combine rumours of an attack with
an internet brownout then you'd get much more fear
than any real attack. What are our brothers from
the NSA/CIA/MI56 going to do there? Shoot OTE (the local PTT).
Now *there's* an idea.
4. They make a lot of laws here. Most get broken.
Greeks are inherently libertarian. The only rule
seems to be A: don't do drugs B: don't do violence. Other than that you can ignore the "Sons of Oedipus" because they are just like red lights on roads - designed to be ignored.
4a. OOPS. The wind just came back and bit our flying patch cables... Oh - I can see the copper
Hey: It still works... (should I check for the blimp?)
5. More seriously, all of the noise about potential hits on the olympics masks more disturbing trends in privacy both online and off.
I could mention the UK police database of genetic
info as one that bothers me. I'm sure slashdotters
know of others...
Well I am Greek and I am a volunteer in the Olympics. Ever since we've undertaken the Olympics there was a massive attack of negative press from many countries such as Usa, Britain and Australai. They constantly doubted about the sucurity of the Olympics and feared of terrorist attacks.
Greece has always been a safe country and Athens has always been a safe city. People here don't carry arms! Shops, restaurants, cafes and clubs are open 7 days a week until late so there is always people on the streets.
After th 9/11 attack things about safety changed. There were threats lurking regarding the safety of the Olympics and the case that Usa, Britain and Israel might boycott the games not to mention extreeeeeeme diplomatic pressure from the USA to modify our legislation regarding terrorist crimes and counter terrorism prevention.
Bringing the big brother was inevitable. Nobody is happy about this. The citizens of Athens aren't, the politicians aren't.
I for once don't feel comfortable to see a soldier with a heavy assault rifle outside the room where I am working.
"They can distinguish the sound of a flat tire from an explosion or a gunshot and inform the user at the command center of the incident," he said. "This is also the case with any anomaly in the picture, such as a traffic jam."
If traffic jams are an "anomaly" in an Olympic city, I think someone should be taking another look at the efficiency of this system...
P.S. I was living in Atlanta in '96
Are you also sane enough to despise the people who constantly talk up China (or sometimes Russia) as the nation that will, as they put it, "stand up to US imperialism"? Let fatty Moore go and make a film about their governments and see how far he gets. They'll shove a cattle prod up his asshole as soon as they can find it. The big fat fuck.
The post anonymously option you are [not] attempting to use is one that isn't available to your user.
Don't worry, this is all to stop people eating food and waring cloths that are not made by the official sponsors (or at least a good counterfit).
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
I don't think they care, they just do it for that great "OMFG I got First Post!!!11" feeling.
-- Yes I live in Athens, Greece (unfortunately) and yes, i can see the effing blimp right outside my window at work.
-- ADD:SIG --
Lessons in English for Greek lovers-wannabes:
"Hi, baby! Me I am! Yesterday you gave her to me, because you are very searched woman. Are you to find her together, tonight?
No? Because no? Come on baby! I'll have you in opa-opa! Carpet I will be to step me! Come on baby, don't break her to me...
(To all the geek ladies in the house, with style and grace...)
----
What if it's windy and the "security blimp" just blows away / can't be used.
UK Laptops
... or everything will come grinding to a halt :)
Who are these two people?
Can we get an Olympic subject on /.?
That way, I can flip the ignore bit on it.
Now that the Olympic committy are going after anybody who uses a circular motif in their logo, or any derivitive of the word "Olympia", now that we are starting to allow things like "The Dream Team" into the Olympics, the spirit of human excellence, *sportsmanship*, and competition are gone.
I don't give a pair of fetid dingo's kidneys about the Olympics - I won't watch them, I don't care about them, and I wish to show my disregard - please let this become a topic.
As for the security issues - shows of "security" are going to become the norm, get used to it.
Or better still, DON'T get used to it - don't go to these places, write your government appointed representatives (I chose that wording deliberately, think about it) to complain.
Personally, I think the best security would be to enable and encourage THE PEOPLE to take part in their own defense.
www.eFax.com are spammers
There was a project at MIT that had some "AI" qualities to it. Possible that this is in use already? http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/vision/app/www/capa bilities.php/
The problem is, there is no going back. The governments today are completely unable to recognise the value of privacy because they are scared of terrorists or at least are pretending to be scared, and we can do nothing to change their thinking.
No matter how effective the fight against terrorism is, and no matter how safe the next years are, the government will never back off from further development of totalitarian control measures. The only way to ever get our freedoms back is to completely destroy the current system. Ironically, our main ally here are the terrorists. I have little hope that this conflict between citizens and their governments may be resolved peacefully. So, the worse it becomes, the better it is. Only when the government attempts to takes all freedoms from the people, will the people hear the wake-up call.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
I do note how most the people claiming the security will have no effect come from one country that has only suffered one real terroist incident (regardless of how large), yet still assume they know all.
CCTV has been used sucessfully in the UK (thats England to those of you who do not realise places exist outside of the US of A) for several decades, not only as a crime prevention mechanism, but also as an anti-terrorist device.
People have mentioned that information is the key thing, well cameras are an observational device,a nd what that is used by most nations who regularly suffer from terrorism.
Oh and as to freedom vs security, I'm sure there are a lot of arab muslims out there is the world who applaud your right to have the freedom to be killed.
It's funny because you didn't make a lick of sense but somehow fooled a handful of dipshit mods into thinking you had a point.
What do you expect - your in a public place!
If they want to record audio and video while I am in a public place I see no harm. I can assume that any action I do in a public place could be observed by someone (hence the term public place).
As long as I obey the local laws I have absolutely nothing to fear about fully observed in a public place.
I would object if they wanted fully observer me while I took a piss or went in my basement to plan a crime. Only an idiot would plan a crime in a public place.
I see it two ways. You could have 4 million plain clothed cops on the steet reporting every thing they hear or see (and they may follow you into the bathroom or into your basement). Or you have a camera and some microphones limited strictly to public areas. Which do you find more acceptable? If you are of the Tin foil hat crowd you will not really trust a human's observation of your actions and at camera and audio is a lot harder to dispute.
Think of it like this - you are in a public place an hence could be publicly observed doing something by any body. What are you going to do - bitch that someone you might not know is looking at you or over heard your conversation? Maybe you should lock yourself in the basement and put your tin foil hat on.
reading the comments in YRO when the 2008 games come around...
Wow, that was productive. Now back to real life. Communists do not want to negotiate. Their demands are not simple concessions or small political gains. Their only desire is the destruction of all things not Communist. They do not value human life, and they have absolutely no desire to concede a single point to an opposing view.
Hey, I think you're on to something here!
Don't call me a cowboy, and don't tell me to slow down!
This may be the first Olympics where there are more security personel and athletes than spectators.
This is not to say everything is rosy. Poverty is widespread and military draft is an inexcusible abuse of half of country's population. Mostly abuse by commanders and lowlife that should be in jail but was also drafted as soldiers rather than any enemies. That's why I am in US, thank you very much. But I am sure this guy was very glad to get the hell out of here.
The more you tighten your grip the more star systems will slip through your fingers
Joe is walking down the street on the way to an event talking to his buddy about the latest big summer movie. It was the bomb! Suddenly men in sunglasses and suits grab him up.
Yeah, this should be fun. How much time is going to be wasted with people having to check reports from the software where someone used a work like bomb in a normal context to dismiss it. I can see the eyes blurring and any real mentions getting lost in all the false alerts.
I don't know if this software is capable, but they need to make sure that it just doesn't check for certain words, but also the context. Even then, the number of false alerts could overwhelm any security force.
The software will only be as good as the people that interpret the information it generates.
doesn't mean that they're not out to get you.
The Olympics and other venues are always used to rachet up the police state. People love the games and won't protest. It's the perfect time to take away more liberties under the guise of keeping us safe.
Ow! Hey! Leggo a me!
Insightful? Naw, Feyr is just a freaking liberal with an agenda. Nice use of misdirection. You managed to sucker in a few moderators, although given the declining state of /.'s collective intellect, I'm not surprised that your tangental rant managed to somehow be evaluated as "Insightful".
It's really just crass and paranoid, but there isn't a modifier for that. Of course, there's no law against being stupid, either, as you appear to not be posting from prison.
Since this thing understands most European and, apparantly, middle-eastern languages, I'll be taking classes in Navajo. That'll stop em!
Wonder if it understands Klingon....
Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness.
-- George Washington
Repeat after me:
Iraq had nothing to do with oil.
Iraq had nothing to do with oil.
Iraq had nothing to do with oil.
Iraq had nothing to do with oil.
Iraq had nothing to do with oil.
Iraq had nothing to do with oil.
Everyone got that into your thick skull now?
Never confuse volume with power.
Preach it, brother!
You have nailed my thoughts and concerns down almost exactly.
Wish I had the mod points for ya (and that you could go to +6! =)
-dave-
The pig browse. With Google. Sigh is to the chicken. Chicken is fool. Giggle. The DailyWTF giggle.
Its so strange to me that everytime I hear Bush say "the terrorists hate our freedom", I think of the 3 items you just laid out.
Bin Laden's complaint was never with our freedom, rather it was for the exact 3 things you lay out above. You know why I think that? Because that's what he said
1936 when the British pulled out of Palastine
The Brits left the Mandate of Paletine in 1947.
We decided to pick up where the british left off, and we sided with the Jewish people, helping them setup [sic] Isreal [sic].
The British Balfour Declaration, circa WWI, promised a Jewish state. Within ten years, they were heavily limiting Jewish immigration into the Mandate. By the 1930s, the Balfour Declaration was a dead letter.
The US and UK both voted for the creation of Israel in the UN, but that was the extent of their support at the time. When five neighboring Arab states promptly invaded Israel, the US and UK both imposed an arms embargo on Israel, not on the invaders. The British had donated WWII-surplus arms to the Arab Legion of Transjordan (now plain old Jordan), and IIRC the Arab Legion was commanded by a British officer (may be mistaken about that last). The UK was actively friendly to (Trans)jordan for the first decade or two of Israel's existence. The UK has traditionally been friendly with their former colonies. The US didn't give Israel any significant aid until 1973; we sold them arms before then, but we sold arms to Jordan as well. As far as I know, the UK has never given Israel any aid at all.
Now we have put ourselves right in the middle of a holy war that has been going on for over a thousand years.
Modern Arabs pogroms against Jews started in the 1920s, accellerated through the 1930s, and of since 1947, of course, there've been wars and invasions and a lot of noise in the Arab world about exterminating the Jews entirely. But that "holy war" mentality is recent. Before the 20th century, Jews in the Arab world were second class citizens, of course, just like Christians, and there were occasional pogroms -- but by all accounts that I've heard, Jews were generally less abused in the Islamic world than in Europe until rather recently. They were certainly never seen as a "holy war"-level threat because there weren't ever enough of them in one place to be a threat. They never had an army. They were forbidden to own weapons in most places.
You've got so many facts so badly wrong that I almost suspect you of being a troll. Or else of getting your "facts" from the BBC.
In 1967, Israel's air force flew French jets. The US was reluctant to sell them aircraft because of US concerns about pissing off Arab nations. The French, of course, do as they damn well please.
I'm still laughing about the insane notion that tiny minorities of Jews, crowded into ghettos, were engaged in some kin dof "holy war" for the past thousand years with the overwhelming Muslim majority in places like Egypt and Iraq.
Last I heard, the US military was out of Saudi entirely. And al Qaeda is still killing civilians there.
Hello? Bin Laden objects to non-Muslims being permitted to set foot in Saudi. They're not defending their homeland from foreign military adventurers; they're persecuting foreigners, like the KKK.
Basques, by the way, still do not have full autonomy. That's not just splitting hairs; would the US have settled for less than full autonomy from England?
"Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive" -- hey, that's me!
Bullshit. Sorry, but you're just fantasizing here.
Both of those countries are allies. We haven't done a damn thing to harm them. You're a fool, and desperately ignorant to boot.
The gun's primary purpose is to kill!
However, I think gun accidents are just as preventable as pool accidents. The thing is that people just don't take the proper precautions with either guns or pools (or anything else for that matter).
I don't want to outlaw guns; I just want people to be fucking responsible! Leaving a loaded gun in a drawer in the family room with little kids is NOT responsible. Likewise, not having a fence or lock on your pool with little kids in the area is NOT responsible.